Max Q
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So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:16 am

With all new aircraft orders on indefinite hold at best is Iran Air going to continue operating some of their pretty old airframes which they do seem to be expert
at maintaining?

Or will they be forced to shrink ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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TC957
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:21 am

Pretty sure they'll do what they've done before...source aircraft or parts via dodgy characters / companies in intermediate countries who couldn't care if the US bans them from business deals with the US...
This could all escalate...I mean I bet the ME3 would be in a position of offload a few surplus aircraft to Iran but are they scared of the US reaction ?
 
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Channex757
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:52 am

TC957 wrote:
Pretty sure they'll do what they've done before...source aircraft or parts via dodgy characters / companies in intermediate countries who couldn't care if the US bans them from business deals with the US...
This could all escalate...I mean I bet the ME3 would be in a position of offload a few surplus aircraft to Iran but are they scared of the US reaction ?

The ME2 (EK and EY) would burn their aircraft before selling them to Iran. It's just politics. Qatar has a better relationship but would not want to get into this catfight as they also have strong US ties.

Any IR aircraft bought would presumably be done by brokers who do not violate the ten year rule for aircraft minimum age. Shame really as the losers continue to be ordinary Iranians who just want safe, cheap air travel but get dragged into the politics of it all.
 
musman9853
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:42 pm

I mean there's really no alternative for them is there? There really isn't any Russian or Chinese planes the equal of A or B.
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mxaxai
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:55 pm

musman9853 wrote:
I mean there's really no alternative for them is there? There really isn't any Russian or Chinese planes the equal of A or B.

All modern aircraft contain at least some US content. In fact, almost all modern technology contains some US content one way or another, which is why US sanctions are so powerful. (Though the same is true for EU and, increasingly, Chinese content, but they decide not to use that power.)
 
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Mortyman
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:19 pm

I still don't get why Airbus allow itself to be dependant on US technology for their aircraft. They must have known that this day would come ?
 
raylee67
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:25 pm

Iran will just do whatever they have been doing since the Revolution. They have been able to get 747-400s and A340-300s and Fokker 100.

Mortyman wrote:
I still don't get why Airbus allow itself to be dependant on US technology for their aircraft. They must have known that this day would come ?

Because it is cheaper and more reliable to source from existing suppliers, and that makes its aircraft more competitive. If being more competitive in the market place in general means it cannot sell to a few airlines out of hundreds in the world, so be it.

If your question is referring to whether Airbus "must have known there would be a day" a US President would call EU US's foe, no one would have known (and expected) that.
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:39 pm

Mortyman wrote:
I still don't get why Airbus allow itself to be dependant on US technology for their aircraft. They must have known that this day would come ?


It wouldn't make any difference of they DIDN'T source components and systems in the U.S. If Airbus sold aircraft to Iran it could be prohibited from selling in the U.S. What's the bigger customer base, AA/DL/UA/JetBlue/Spirit/Frontier, or Iranian carriers?
 
csavel
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:54 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Mortyman wrote:
I still don't get why Airbus allow itself to be dependant on US technology for their aircraft. They must have known that this day would come ?


It wouldn't make any difference of they DIDN'T source components and systems in the U.S. If Airbus sold aircraft to Iran it could be prohibited from selling in the U.S. What's the bigger customer base, AA/DL/UA/JetBlue/Spirit/Frontier, or Iranian carriers?


Possibly silly question but in all seriousness, couldn't Airbus or any other European company do what airlines used to do re: China and Taiwan? Set up a separate "company" to serve Iran?

No that isn't an Airbus A350, sir, but a a Bus of Air BA530. Totally separate company! Assume it is much more difficult with an airplane manufacturer than an airline, and Iran isn't a large enough market to go through all the trouble but still....
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SCQ83
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:11 pm

Instead of buying old planes from dodgy countries/brokers, maybe they just can kick out those evil Ayatollahs, become a democracy and problem solved.

Mortyman wrote:
I still don't get why Airbus allow itself to be dependant on US technology for their aircraft. They must have known that this day would come ?


Easy, the US is the most technologically advanced country in the history of humanity.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:19 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Easy, the US is the most technologically advanced country in the history of humanity.


Based on what ?

MIflyer12 wrote:
It wouldn't make any difference of they DIDN'T source components and systems in the U.S. If Airbus sold aircraft to Iran it could be prohibited from selling in the U.S. What's the bigger customer base, AA/DL/UA/JetBlue/Spirit/Frontier, or Iranian carriers?



And Boeing could be prohibited to sell Boeing Aircraft to EU / Europe wich is a bigger economy / market
 
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Aquila3
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:21 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Instead of buying old planes from dodgy countries/brokers, maybe they just can kick out those evil Ayatollahs, become a democracy and problem solved.

Mortyman wrote:
I still don't get why Airbus allow itself to be dependant on US technology for their aircraft. They must have known that this day would come ?


Easy, the US is the most technologically advanced country in the history of humanity.

OK for the technology if you want.
But for the rest you have no history and even not so much humanity. ;)
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IWMBH
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:24 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Instead of buying old planes from dodgy countries/brokers, maybe they just can kick out those evil Ayatollahs, become a democracy and problem solved.

Mortyman wrote:
I still don't get why Airbus allow itself to be dependant on US technology for their aircraft. They must have known that this day would come ?


Easy, the US is the most technologically advanced country in the history of humanity.


''Kick out those evil Ayatollahs'' Yeah because kicking out an evil regime makes your life much better as a civilian, just like in Syria, Iraq, Libia... Oh wait.

On topic:
I think they can hold out with their ageing aircraft for two more years. If Trump gets re-elected it's time to change plans, if not there is still a chance that the embargo is lifted and the deliveries of the remaining Airbus planes can be carried out.
 
Varsity1
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:39 pm

IWMBH wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Instead of buying old planes from dodgy countries/brokers, maybe they just can kick out those evil Ayatollahs, become a democracy and problem solved.

Mortyman wrote:
I still don't get why Airbus allow itself to be dependant on US technology for their aircraft. They must have known that this day would come ?


Easy, the US is the most technologically advanced country in the history of humanity.


''Kick out those evil Ayatollahs'' Yeah because kicking out an evil regime makes your life much better as a civilian, just like in Syria, Iraq, Libia... Oh wait.

On topic:
I think they can hold out with their ageing aircraft for two more years. If Trump gets re-elected it's time to change plans, if not there is still a chance that the embargo is lifted and the deliveries of the remaining Airbus planes can be carried out.


Even if trump is not reelected, the sanctions will remain. There is near zero political will to support any 'deal' with Iran on either side of the aisle.

The US is allied with KSA and the UAE. That isn't going to change. Their attitude towards Iran isn't going to change either.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
IWMBH
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:46 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Instead of buying old planes from dodgy countries/brokers, maybe they just can kick out those evil Ayatollahs, become a democracy and problem solved.



Easy, the US is the most technologically advanced country in the history of humanity.


''Kick out those evil Ayatollahs'' Yeah because kicking out an evil regime makes your life much better as a civilian, just like in Syria, Iraq, Libia... Oh wait.

On topic:
I think they can hold out with their ageing aircraft for two more years. If Trump gets re-elected it's time to change plans, if not there is still a chance that the embargo is lifted and the deliveries of the remaining Airbus planes can be carried out.


Even if trump is not reelected, the sanctions will remain. There is near zero political will to support any 'deal' with Iran on either side of the aisle.

The US is allied with KSA and the UAE. That isn't going to change. Their attitude towards Iran isn't going to change either.


You're probably right. But then again, a deal has been made before so it can be done again.
Iran air doesn't have many other options most Russian and Chinese jets have parts from US or EU companies in them so they aren't a option either.
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:50 pm

Watching moviefilms of american pop songs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIpfWORQWhU
 
mfe777
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:56 pm

Isn't Russia working on reviving the IL-96? Could be a fuel thirsty yet effective aircraft for Iran Air longhaul.

Is there any American content in the IL-96 or TU-204 that would prevent Russia from being able to sell to Iran?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:16 pm

mfe777 wrote:
Isn't Russia working on reviving the IL-96? Could be a fuel thirsty yet effective aircraft for Iran Air longhaul.

Is there any American content in the IL-96 or TU-204 that would prevent Russia from being able to sell to Iran?


There could be both "westernised" and "de-westernised" versions, with engines apparently the key.

For Tu-204, there is a version with RR engines, and also a version with PS-90A2 engines (these contain PW IP).
The versions, powered by the basic PS-90A and PS-90A1, seem to have no Western content.Also, advanced PS-90A3 is a question mark -- it is hailed as building upon PS-90A2 legacy, but supposedly with no Western content -- and thus not subject to limitations.

For Il-96, the basic Il-96-300 is powered by PS-90A and seems to have no western content.

Il-96M had PW engines. Its derivative, Il-96-400 (in all its versions, including a freighter, proposed air tanker and a proposed passenger variant), was expected to be powered exclusively by PS-90A1.
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ScottB
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:18 pm

csavel wrote:
Possibly silly question but in all seriousness, couldn't Airbus or any other European company do what airlines used to do re: China and Taiwan? Set up a separate "company" to serve Iran?

No that isn't an Airbus A350, sir, but a a Bus of Air BA530. Totally separate company! Assume it is much more difficult with an airplane manufacturer than an airline, and Iran isn't a large enough market to go through all the trouble but still....


You don't think the U.S. government would get wise to a scheme like that very quickly and adjust the regulations as needed to deal with sham companies?

mxaxai wrote:
I'm not sure if they are obliged to try and ensure that their products do not end up in Iran, even if they're not selling them directly. Another option IMO could be to set up a leasing company whose sole purpose is providing aircraft (and maintenance) to Iran.


Generally they do have some obligation to know their customers, just as banks do. Companies and banks have compliance departments to deal with just this sort of thing -- if a deal seems dodgy (i.e. some random guy shows up and wants 25 new A350s delivered to DOH for cash, no questions asked) then it's on the seller to investigate further and refuse to participate in a deal if there's reasonable suspicion that there is an intent by the buyer to evade sanctions (or any other criminal activity).
 
Bricktop
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:28 pm

IWMBH wrote:
On topic:
I think they can hold out with their ageing aircraft for two more years. If Trump gets re-elected it's time to change plans, if not there is still a chance that the embargo is lifted and the deliveries of the remaining Airbus planes can be carried out.

You do realize the reason that President Obama chose not to take the Iran deal to the US Senate to make it Law of the Land was because senators from his own party didn't support him on it. Change in the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is irrelevant.

There are no easy answers to the mess Iran finds itself in, but it's a bed largely of their government's making. I don't have them for sure.
 
UA444
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:31 pm

Channex757 wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Pretty sure they'll do what they've done before...source aircraft or parts via dodgy characters / companies in intermediate countries who couldn't care if the US bans them from business deals with the US...
This could all escalate...I mean I bet the ME3 would be in a position of offload a few surplus aircraft to Iran but are they scared of the US reaction ?

The ME2 (EK and EY) would burn their aircraft before selling them to Iran. It's just politics. Qatar has a better relationship but would not want to get into this catfight as they also have strong US ties.

Any IR aircraft bought would presumably be done by brokers who do not violate the ten year rule for aircraft minimum age. Shame really as the losers continue to be ordinary Iranians who just want safe, cheap air travel but get dragged into the politics of it all.

They’re more than welcome to overthrow their dictatorship government if they want new planes. They have experience doing it.
 
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neomax
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:38 pm

Why should Airbus give a damn if there are sanctions? Just because there are US parts in it doesn't make it a US airplane. Yeah they might have to face sanctions but no one can stop Airbus from delivering the planes if they want to. I also find the notion that Airbus cannot find EU substitutes for US parts complete snakeoil. Things are only going to get worse for US-EU relations so Airbus might as well get used to life under sanctions and deliver the damn airplanes. It will be good for Airbus to reduce dependence on US made parts as relations continue to sour.
 
Bricktop
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:41 pm

neomax wrote:
Why should Airbus give a damn if there are sanctions? Things are only going to get worse so Airbus might as well get used to life under sanctions and deliver the damn airplanes.

Spoken like someone with zero skin in the game. The shareholder lawsuits would be plentiful and instantaneous.
 
Max Q
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:58 pm

Are there aircraft already built that cannot be delivered ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:01 am

MC-21 seems to be progressing well, don't think they could get the PW GTF on it though.
 
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wiggy
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:06 am

can't they afford my aircraft or what
 
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wiggy
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:07 am

can't they afford my aircraft or what
 
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neomax
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:49 am

Seeing how the US and the rest of the world are increasingly at odds over the Iran question, I think Iran will probably be able to get some more Airbus a/c if nothing else to demonstrate EU commitment to the nuclear deal as they spent so much time negotiating it and still want Iran to abide by it. EU's negotiating power comes from their willingness to stick to the agreed terms of the deal and thus it is in their interest to deliver these planes if they want to maintain trust. A major part of that deal concerned the Airbus order. If the EU wants to maintain its appearance as a reliable partner, they're gonna have to deliver these planes even if they don't want to if they want Iran to hold up its side of the deal. It is pretty well established that the US and Boeing dropped out of this race a long time ago. Now it's pretty much between the EU, Iran, and Airbus to figure out how to circumvent US sanctions, which is probably easier than people think.
 
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RobK
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:14 am

Iran will get their Western built planes via their friends in Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Iraq, just like they've always done. Sanctions don't stop them, it simply means the acquisition process has to get a little.. creative.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:29 am

neomax wrote:
Seeing how the US and the rest of the world are increasingly at odds over the Iran question, I think Iran will probably be able to get some more Airbus a/c if nothing else to demonstrate EU commitment to the nuclear deal as they spent so much time negotiating it and still want Iran to abide by it. EU's negotiating power comes from their willingness to stick to the agreed terms of the deal and thus it is in their interest to deliver these planes if they want to maintain trust. A major part of that deal concerned the Airbus order. If the EU wants to maintain its appearance as a reliable partner, they're gonna have to deliver these planes even if they don't want to if they want Iran to hold up its side of the deal. It is pretty well established that the US and Boeing dropped out of this race a long time ago. Now it's pretty much between the EU, Iran, and Airbus to figure out how to circumvent US sanctions, which is probably easier than people think.


Sure, no problem. Then again, Airbus could be embargoed from receiving US engines and components. They wouldn’t deliver another plane once the supply train was stopped. It’ll be quite some time before they develop P&W and GE engine replacements; Honeywell avionics and APUs; a boatload of smaller parts.

GF
 
pipeafcr
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:33 am

Wait 3 more years til trumps gone
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pipeafcr
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:33 am

.
Felipe Carrillo
 
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OA940
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:27 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Instead of buying old planes from dodgy countries/brokers, maybe they just can kick out those evil Ayatollahs, become a democracy and problem solved.

Mortyman wrote:
I still don't get why Airbus allow itself to be dependant on US technology for their aircraft. They must have known that this day would come ?


Easy, the US is the most technologically advanced country in the history of humanity.


Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah no. But that's a convo for the non-aviation forum :D
A350/CSeries = bae
 
Lufthansa
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:02 am

neomax wrote:
Why should Airbus give a damn if there are sanctions? Just because there are US parts in it doesn't make it a US airplane. Yeah they might have to face sanctions but no one can stop Airbus from delivering the planes if they want to. I also find the notion that Airbus cannot find EU substitutes for US parts complete snakeoil. Things are only going to get worse for US-EU relations so Airbus might as well get used to life under sanctions and deliver the damn airplanes. It will be good for Airbus to reduce dependence on US made parts as relations continue to sour.


I'm sorry but are you barking mad? The worlds biggest operator of Airbus Aircraft is American Airlines. Their fleet alone is bigger than the entire Iranian fleet. Thats before we even add in the likes of Delta, JetBlue etc, consider a huge Airbus investment in a US production line, two new types coming off the line there.... if you went to your bankers and said I'm giving up that because Iran is more important? I know the Persian people deserve new and safe aircraft but they may have to do what we historically have done in the west and stand up to bad leadership. But if anyone thinks for a second Airbus is going to risk just the sales and support to AA alone in favour of Iran you are living in an alternative reality. Remember at the moment Europe has bigger issues than just airbus sales. There's the German car industry potentially under threat and the French defence industry. Things don't happen in isolation. Meanwhile Emirates buys another 130 777s.
 
anrec80
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:44 am

ikolkyo wrote:
MC-21 seems to be progressing well, don't think they could get the PW GTF on it though.


MS-21 will also have PD-14 option, which doesn’t have any Western pieces. It’s being tested right now. Also, Russians are working on second iteration of SSJ, with aim to reduce reliance on Western parts. Hence there will be some options for Iran.
 
anrec80
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:50 am

Phosphorus wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
Isn't Russia working on reviving the IL-96? Could be a fuel thirsty yet effective aircraft for Iran Air longhaul.

Is there any American content in the IL-96 or TU-204 that would prevent Russia from being able to sell to Iran?


There could be both "westernised" and "de-westernised" versions, with engines apparently the key.

For Tu-204, there is a version with RR engines, and also a version with PS-90A2 engines (these contain PW IP).
The versions, powered by the basic PS-90A and PS-90A1, seem to have no Western content.Also, advanced PS-90A3 is a question mark -- it is hailed as building upon PS-90A2 legacy, but supposedly with no Western content -- and thus not subject to limitations.

For Il-96, the basic Il-96-300 is powered by PS-90A and seems to have no western content.

Il-96M had PW engines. Its derivative, Il-96-400 (in all its versions, including a freighter, proposed air tanker and a proposed passenger variant), was expected to be powered exclusively by PS-90A1.


The-204, IL-96 are the projects of an era that’s gone. Tu-204 is being replaced with MS-21, talks of IL-96 are happening on and off for the past decade or so. Tu-204 through is still perfectly commercially efficient frame on longer sectors (4-5 hrs), if one can keep it up in the air. You certainly can make money on this type for now.

Russians may build a few for a sake of preserving competencies in building wide bodies, but nobody can talk about any commercial success. Even with new engine (Iran will need a PD-14 derivative, which is years away) - it won’t be competitive with A-350 or 779. Sure, can fly and transport people, but that’s pretty much it.
 
anrec80
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:57 am

pipeafcr wrote:
Wait 3 more years til trumps gone


He’s also gonna run for the second term. So maybe whole 7 years.
 
Geoff1947
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:32 am

Max Q wrote:
Are there aircraft already built that cannot be delivered ?


No this has been likely ever since the US election in 2016.

Geoff
 
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neomax
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:01 am

Lufthansa wrote:
I'm sorry but are you barking mad? The worlds biggest operator of Airbus Aircraft is American Airlines. Their fleet alone is bigger than the entire Iranian fleet. Thats before we even add in the likes of Delta, JetBlue etc, consider a huge Airbus investment in a US production line, two new types coming off the line there.... if you went to your bankers and said I'm giving up that because Iran is more important? I know the Persian people deserve new and safe aircraft but they may have to do what we historically have done in the west and stand up to bad leadership. But if anyone thinks for a second Airbus is going to risk just the sales and support to AA alone in favour of Iran you are living in an alternative reality. Remember at the moment Europe has bigger issues than just airbus sales. There's the German car industry potentially under threat and the French defence industry. Things don't happen in isolation. Meanwhile Emirates buys another 130 777s.


There is a horizon beyond America.

I am not Iranian, but have visited it and have gained a profound appreciation for the strength and resilience of its people to persevere through adversity with happiness. It is easy to get caught up in the western world and forget that Iran is a country of people, many of whom have the same dreams and aspirations for a better future and that is something to respect regardless of nationality, ethnicity, gender, religion, or opinion. Humanity is more important than politics and saner heads will prevail.

It may be a struggle to get these planes delivered, it may be a struggle to come to an agreement on the nuclear question, it may even be a struggle to be accepted by the international community.

But nothing in the world is worth having or worth doing unless it means effort, pain, difficulty. Having seen the drive of our self-sustaining Iranian friends through the most difficult of times firsthand, I have no doubt they will succeed in this, whether that is in one year or ten. I know many people reading this will not have had the opportunity to visit Iran as I have had the good fortune of doing. There is an excellent Dutch documentary that premiered in the US just yesterday. I highly recommend everyone watch it.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... in-tehran/
 
BravoOne
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:16 am

Phosphorus wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
Isn't Russia working on reviving the IL-96? Could be a fuel thirsty yet effective aircraft for Iran Air longhaul.

Is there any American content in the IL-96 or TU-204 that would prevent Russia from being able to sell to Iran?


There could be both "westernised" and "de-westernised" versions, with engines apparently the key.

For Tu-204, there is a version with RR engines, and also a version with PS-90A2 engines (these contain PW IP).
The versions, powered by the basic PS-90A and PS-90A1, seem to have no Western content.Also, advanced PS-90A3 is a question mark -- it is hailed as building upon PS-90A2 legacy, but supposedly with no Western content -- and thus not subject to limitations.

For Il-96, the basic Il-96-300 is powered by PS-90A and seems to have no western content.

Il-96M had PW engines. Its derivative, Il-96-400 (in all its versions, including a freighter, proposed air tanker and a proposed passenger variant), was expected to be powered exclusively by PS-90A1.


It's doubtful that any of these older Russian aircraft would meet the avionic mandates of Link 2000+, therefore they could not operate in any European airspace without major upgrades.
 
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keesje
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:28 am

Used Airbusses from everywhere?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
londonistan
Posts: 87
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:39 am

I know..! They can lease aircraft from Turkish and repaint a joint livery on the side saying "Death to America" in Farsi & Turkish and a great big two-fingers-up on the tail.
 
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Momo1435
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:56 am

londonistan wrote:
I know..! They can lease aircraft from Turkish and repaint a joint livery on the side saying "Death to America" in Farsi & Turkish and a great big two-fingers-up on the tail.

Two fingers up is the V sign = peace sign for everywhere in the world except for the UK, it goes a bit too far to insult the Brits over something the American president has done.

Anyway.

I still don't understand why Iran didn't rush to get enough 2nd hand planes to bridge the gap until the new planes would arrive. It would have also been an "insurance" for when the deal would collapse for whatever reason possible. They would already have a much younger fleet then at the moment the nuclear deal was sealed. Now they will have to resort to what they have done for the past decades, it's not like Iran don't have any experience with a situation like this, they are prepared.

And let's just hope that diplomacy prevails in the end and that Iran and the US will still come to a deal that will prevent any development of nuclear weapons and allows for deliveries of aircraft. Trump looks to be a deal breaker right here, but he is the 1st to talk to anyone if he can make a deal himself. That's both a problem and a major issue with a president who is as opportunistic as Trump.
 
londonistan
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:20 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
londonistan wrote:
I know..! They can lease aircraft from Turkish and repaint a joint livery on the side saying "Death to America" in Farsi & Turkish and a great big two-fingers-up on the tail.

Two fingers up is the V sign = peace sign for everywhere in the world except for the UK, it goes a bit too far to insult the Brits over something the American president has done.

Anyway.

I still don't understand why Iran didn't rush to get enough 2nd hand planes to bridge the gap until the new planes would arrive. It would have also been an "insurance" for when the deal would collapse for whatever reason possible. They would already have a much younger fleet then at the moment the nuclear deal was sealed. Now they will have to resort to what they have done for the past decades, it's not like Iran don't have any experience with a situation like this, they are prepared.

And let's just hope that diplomacy prevails in the end and that Iran and the US will still come to a deal that will prevent any development of nuclear weapons and allows for deliveries of aircraft. Trump looks to be a deal breaker right here, but he is the 1st to talk to anyone if he can make a deal himself. That's both a problem and a major issue with a president who is as opportunistic as Trump.


Well the two fingers up was around long before it stood for peace (WW2 & Churchill etc.) and they are usually shown the other way round from each other (back of the hand for f-off and front for Peace, man) . I don't see that everybody except the Brits uses it as you say, and I certainly don't think we'd be insulted - we're not easily offended and would be howling with laughter. My mother was from Manhattan and my father from London by the way. Even though my mum would be turning in her urn if she could see what her fellow New Yorker is up to rampaging around the planet..
 
WIederling
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:06 pm

anrec80 wrote:
pipeafcr wrote:
Wait 3 more years til trumps gone


He’s also gonna run for the second term. So maybe whole 7 years.


That will increase pressure.
An increasing number of nations will note that the US is a completely
unreliable participant in international affairs. fickle, erratic, shortsighted.
This will lead to protective alliances across formerly separated blocks.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Phosphorus
Posts: 553
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Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:22 pm

Momo1435 wrote:
I still don't understand why Iran didn't rush to get enough 2nd hand planes to bridge the gap until the new planes would arrive. It would have also been an "insurance" for when the deal would collapse for whatever reason possible. They would already have a much younger fleet then at the moment the nuclear deal was sealed. Now they will have to resort to what they have done for the past decades, it's not like Iran don't have any experience with a situation like this, they are prepared.


Wasn't there an arrangement -- that these newly purchased, fresh-off-the-line Boeings, would be (at least partly) financed with Iranian money, otherwise blocked (for years now) and sitting idle in those "sanctioned" accounts?
As I understood, it was one of the (very few) ways to possibly ever deploy these funds by Iran, rather than have them rot in those "sanctioned" accounts into perpetuity. AFAIR.
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Bricktop
Posts: 1375
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:04 am

Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:49 pm

WIederling wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
pipeafcr wrote:
Wait 3 more years til trumps gone


He’s also gonna run for the second term. So maybe whole 7 years.


That will increase pressure.
An increasing number of nations will note that the US is a completely
unreliable participant in international affairs. fickle, erratic, shortsighted.
This will lead to protective alliances across formerly separated blocks.

I am shocked, shocked I tell ya, to read that opinion from you. An increasing number of nations will also note
that the US is subsidizing them to a massive extent, and has decided not to play the chump any longer.
Better brush up on your Russian, mein Freund. ;)
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 8361
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:03 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
neomax wrote:
Seeing how the US and the rest of the world are increasingly at odds over the Iran question, I think Iran will probably be able to get some more Airbus a/c if nothing else to demonstrate EU commitment to the nuclear deal as they spent so much time negotiating it and still want Iran to abide by it. EU's negotiating power comes from their willingness to stick to the agreed terms of the deal and thus it is in their interest to deliver these planes if they want to maintain trust. A major part of that deal concerned the Airbus order. If the EU wants to maintain its appearance as a reliable partner, they're gonna have to deliver these planes even if they don't want to if they want Iran to hold up its side of the deal. It is pretty well established that the US and Boeing dropped out of this race a long time ago. Now it's pretty much between the EU, Iran, and Airbus to figure out how to circumvent US sanctions, which is probably easier than people think.


Sure, no problem. Then again, Airbus could be embargoed from receiving US engines and components. They wouldn’t deliver another plane once the supply train was stopped. It’ll be quite some time before they develop P&W and GE engine replacements; Honeywell avionics and APUs; a boatload of smaller parts.

GF


And than the EU could put an embargo on the USA and Boeing would not deliver a single 737 for example. Every CFM be it an 56 or LEAP is build with European parts.

The 787 would also be in trouble, there are either RR engines or the GEnx and that one includes parts from MTU.

I could go on, even some USA military engines use parts from MTU. The engines on the KC-46, PW4062 has MTU parts.

I am astonished how people think that aircraft parts being a one way street. Yes the USA could close down Airbus, but the EU could than close down Boeing. Mutual agreed upon destruction. It needs a certain kind of ignorance thinking that economic war is a good thing.
 
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Mortyman
Posts: 5685
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:28 pm

Bricktop wrote:
WIederling wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

He’s also gonna run for the second term. So maybe whole 7 years.


That will increase pressure.
An increasing number of nations will note that the US is a completely
unreliable participant in international affairs. fickle, erratic, shortsighted.
This will lead to protective alliances across formerly separated blocks.

I am shocked, shocked I tell ya, to read that opinion from you. An increasing number of nations will also note
that the US is subsidizing them to a massive extent, and has decided not to play the chump any longer.
Better brush up on your Russian, mein Freund. ;)


It's rather the world that is subsidizing the US ...
 
bob75013
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: So what’s Iran going to do now ?

Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:41 pm

neomax wrote:
Why should Airbus give a damn if there are sanctions? Just because there are US parts in it doesn't make it a US airplane. Yeah they might have to face sanctions but no one can stop Airbus from delivering the planes if they want to. I also find the notion that Airbus cannot find EU substitutes for US parts complete snakeoil. Things are only going to get worse for US-EU relations so Airbus might as well get used to life under sanctions and deliver the damn airplanes. It will be good for Airbus to reduce dependence on US made parts as relations continue to sour.


Airbus is free to sell to anyone they chose to. If they chose to sell to Iran, the US refuses export licenses to Airbus, and soon thereafter Airbus has no planes to sell to anyone.

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