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Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:23 am

N983AN wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
They can’t shove something down if they lose the arbitration


Yeah and given the IAM’s track record on arbitrations the company often ultimately gets to do as they please. You at all familiar with the USAIR Airbus arbitration? Just like Menzies at SEA with Alaska the company ultimately prevailed and didn’t bring the work/jobs back in this case.

I helped worked the Airbus Arbitration, we won.

The filed bankruptcy the second time to get out of paying the over $300 million and bringing back the jobs.

And the IAM won the AS Arbitration also.

Take the time to educate yourself.
 
N983AN
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:06 am

Boof02671 wrote:
N983AN wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
They can’t shove something down if they lose the arbitration


Yeah and given the IAM’s track record on arbitrations the company often ultimately gets to do as they please. You at all familiar with the USAIR Airbus arbitration? Just like Menzies at SEA with Alaska the company ultimately prevailed and didn’t bring the work/jobs back in this case.

I helped worked the Airbus Arbitration, we won.

The filed bankruptcy the second time to get out of paying the over $300 million and bringing back the jobs.

And the IAM won the AS Arbitration also.

Take the time to educate yourself.


So if you were part of the arbitration are you currently or have you been part of the IAM in the past? Seems like a possible explanation for why you seem to be the only person on here singing praise of the IAM.
 
N983AN
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:01 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
And your obviously legacy AA with your moniker and hates LUS and the IAM.

737-800


Seeing what the IAM has done with this pathetic “Association” no one got to vote on despite being told the membership would is it any surprise? Why is the IAM on the AA property? The same IAM that brought the company the mess of TWA, years of costly litigation and arbitration all for the disgruntled ungrateful employees who got top of scale pay, full company seniority, and incompatible aircraft, dumpy facilities and a worthless STL hub.

DL people should stay far away from the IAM. The IAM also lost the CO F/As and FL fleet service after the WN acquisition.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:12 pm

Blame Jim LIttle, the IAM never stated there would be a vote, that was Jim.

Wow, bitter much?

You and the TWU screwed the TWA people.

No ligitigation from the IAM to the TWU, it went to ONE Arbitration, the Kasher Decision,

Stop with the misinformation and Fake News,

You would still be paid 24% less if it wasnt for the Association.

And that merger was in 2001, harber much ill will?

And you can thank your union the TWU for creating the B-Scale in 1983, go sign and AMP card.

The only reason with CO going AFA is that the AFA was much larger, and the same for WN.

The IAM CO FAs, under their CBA were the highest paid in the majors.
 
N983AN
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:51 pm

AA/TW was an acquisition of certain (substantially all) of TWAs assets, it wasn’t a merger. And no myself and many nAAtives aren’t over it, the 2003 concessions went deeper because of this disaster. And now America West is destroying AA with their penny wise and pound foolish management decisions that are driving away customers and AAs historic revenue premium.

And I don’t think the TWA (or USAIR) SLI was fair in that I believe everyone should have been stapled like Reno and AirCal. But I maintain the IAM shouldn’t have waived the protective provisions, had they held firm do you really believe the TWU would have passed on the opportunity to pick up new dues payers?
 
N983AN
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:08 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Fair?

Fair is dovetail and you forget US and Parker bought AA.

AA forced all TWA unions to waive the LPPs or they wouldn’t proceed

And say AA didn’t force that then TW would have gotten dovetailed under Allegheny/Mohawk.

Take the time to educate yourself mr bitter selfish LAA.


Why did the IAM roll over without a fight? Did the TWA members get to vote on waiving the provisions? We were often told how TWA was a valuable franchise and had other suitors so why didn’t they hold out if that was the case?

Bottom line is the IAM will do nothing for DL, but will only fill the coffers of the IAM.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:41 pm

Keep the posts on topic and civil.

Please flag posts to help moderators that discuss other users. Please read the forum rules and discuss the topic and not other users.
Winter is coming.
 
jfern022
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:06 pm

Sure, let's bring in a union which was proven to sign fraudulent cards to try and force a vote. Yeah, exactly who we want at the table.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:08 pm

N983AN wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Fair?

Fair is dovetail and you forget US and Parker bought AA.

AA forced all TWA unions to waive the LPPs or they wouldn’t proceed

And say AA didn’t force that then TW would have gotten dovetailed under Allegheny/Mohawk.

Take the time to educate yourself mr bitter selfish LAA.


Why did the IAM roll over without a fight? Did the TWA members get to vote on waiving the provisions? We were often told how TWA was a valuable franchise and had other suitors so why didn’t they hold out if that was the case?

Bottom line is the IAM will do nothing for DL, but will only fill the coffers of the IAM.

Going to arbitration for the ground and to court is walking away?

Why did the TWU abandon F9 ramp after they unionized them?

Why did the TWU take concessions at AA in 1983 and 2003 outside of chapter 11?

You do know the AFA failed three times at DL and the TWU failed once?
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4338
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:26 pm

Insertnamehere wrote:
I do not know about the internal politics at Delta, however, it seems to me that Delta management care much more about their frontline workers and they seem much happier than other carriers. If they unionize it could disrupt that semi-happy relation between the two working groups.


I think DL cares more about not having a union than they actually care about the employees. All the PR spin, Kool-Aid, and good words are the price they are paying to keep the peace and keep the union out. It’s very artificial IMO.
 
flyboy80
Posts: 2070
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Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:57 pm

Isn't it safe to say that a represented workforce is going to cost Delta Corporate more in benefits, compensation, etc? When you get through all the "unique culture" talk isn't this really about money and Delta keeping the bills lower and productivity higher?
 
alfa164
Posts: 3710
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:23 am

jfern022 wrote:
Sure, let's bring in a union which was proven to sign fraudulent cards to try and force a vote. Yeah, exactly who we want at the table.


Not to mention...

1. "The IAM has a history of its high-flying executives spending more money than the union takes in."

2. "In addition to a long history of corrupt union officials, the IAM is also known for the extravagant lifestyle of its executives who often travel (at union members’ expense) in the IAM’s “corporate” jet."

3. "The Machinists’ union maintains a multi-employer pension fund that is severely underfunded–which means, when union members go to retire, they may very well find the union does not have enough money to keep the promises they were promised."

4. "Machinists union members can get stuck in contracts despite a majority rejecting the contract. This is referred to ‘Contract by Default.’"

http://truthaboutunions.org/2018/01/27/ ... sts-union/


5. The IAM as been accused of having a bloated bureaucracy and of wasting union dues.

6.. The IAM has been found guilty and had federal convictions for corruption and stealing members' dies.

http://www.iamexposed.org/index.html


7. The IAM was forced to repay $200,000.00 to its members and a $40,000.00 penalty for conflict of interest in 2016.

https://freebeacon.com/issues/union-pen ... stigation/


8. IAM members who disagreed with leadership’s decisions, policies, or tactics were threatened with employment termination- and even physical harm.

http://www.workerfreedom.org/%E2%80%98i ... 0%99-bully


The IAM has 261 "employees" who make more than $75,000.00 a year. I wonder if our most prolific poster here is one of them... :roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
questions
Posts: 2337
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Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:13 am

flyboy80 wrote:
Isn't it safe to say that a represented workforce is going to cost Delta Corporate more in benefits, compensation, etc? When you get through all the "unique culture" talk isn't this really about money and Delta keeping the bills lower and productivity higher?


Of course. It’s a business, not a non-profit charitable organization. If you were running a business would you want a third party between you and your employees?

Apparently Delta does have a “unique culture.” The airline does not seem to have any problems attracting the talent they believe is best to execute its strategy and reinforce its brand.

What exactly would Delta’s FA’s and fleet workers get in exchange for paying union dues and the increased bureaucracy of working through a third party?
 
questions
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Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:50 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
Insertnamehere wrote:
I do not know about the internal politics at Delta, however, it seems to me that Delta management care much more about their frontline workers and they seem much happier than other carriers. If they unionize it could disrupt that semi-happy relation between the two working groups.


I think DL cares more about not having a union than they actually care about the employees. All the PR spin, Kool-Aid, and good words are the price they are paying to keep the peace and keep the union out. It’s very artificial IMO.


Most corporate environments are extremely artificial. The entity exists to make money. Everything related to the internal PR-hyped “culture” is manufactured. And employees just nod yes and smile... because they have mortgages to pay, kids to put through school and need the medical benefits. “Oh yes. It’s great here. I love it!” Ever wonder why there is a disconnect between those employee engagement surveys and the word on the street? Intellectually people understand it — happy employees that are taken care of are more productive and are better for the company’s customers. That’s why HR and employee communications work so hard to make you feel like you’re “valued”, your growth and development is so important, and that your salary is competitive when it’s not.

If you think there is a gap between “management” and “labor” you should see the gap between “executives” and “management.” Obscene salaries. Healthcare plans that are different from the Average Joe’s — ever heard of executive physicals and wonder why all you get is a knock on the knee? Financial planning. Different travel policies (airline class of service and grade of hotels). And when the “executives” meet with the BOD, the meetings, meals and activities are not on a slim budget — paid first class, car service to/from the airport, the Ritz Carlton, gobs of food, golf anyone?, and yes, you can bring your spouse. What happened to “spend money like it’s your own”? These guys live by another principle... spend money because it’s someone else’s!

Of course there are decent places to work with bearable co-workers. Just never lose site of what it really is.
 
questions
Posts: 2337
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Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:58 am

N983AN wrote:
And now America West is destroying AA with their penny wise and pound foolish management decisions that are driving away customers and AAs historic revenue premium.


A couple of months ago I flew paid First class on an AA transcon, coast to coast, but not JFK-LAX/SFO. I was underwhelmed vs what I remember from a few years ago. Skimpy dinner service. And AA has not kept up with technology. The A321 cabin looked refurbished but lacked power outlets. The experience was like flying First class in the 1980’s but with coach meal and beverage service. I’m sure Doug and the bean counters are happy they valued engineered the premium cabin offering.

The following week on another route I had the choice between AA First class and jetBlue Mint. I chose Mint. And have chosen it again.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:08 pm

alfa164 wrote:
jfern022 wrote:
Sure, let's bring in a union which was proven to sign fraudulent cards to try and force a vote. Yeah, exactly who we want at the table.


Not to mention...

1. "The IAM has a history of its high-flying executives spending more money than the union takes in."

2. "In addition to a long history of corrupt union officials, the IAM is also known for the extravagant lifestyle of its executives who often travel (at union members’ expense) in the IAM’s “corporate” jet."

3. "The Machinists’ union maintains a multi-employer pension fund that is severely underfunded–which means, when union members go to retire, they may very well find the union does not have enough money to keep the promises they were promised."

4. "Machinists union members can get stuck in contracts despite a majority rejecting the contract. This is referred to ‘Contract by Default.’"

http://truthaboutunions.org/2018/01/27/ ... sts-union/


5. The IAM as been accused of having a bloated bureaucracy and of wasting union dues.

6.. The IAM has been found guilty and had federal convictions for corruption and stealing members' dies.

http://www.iamexposed.org/index.html


7. The IAM was forced to repay $200,000.00 to its members and a $40,000.00 penalty for conflict of interest in 2016.

https://freebeacon.com/issues/union-pen ... stigation/


8. IAM members who disagreed with leadership’s decisions, policies, or tactics were threatened with employment termination- and even physical harm.

http://www.workerfreedom.org/%E2%80%98i ... 0%99-bully


The IAM has 261 "employees" who make more than $75,000.00 a year. I wonder if our most prolific poster here is one of them... :roll:


First of all you ignored every single fact Ive posted, so let me reply to your false post from info you obtained from DL and other really anti-union biased sources.

1.The IAM has over $200,000,000 in cash and assets at the end of 2017, up from $183,000,000 at the end of 2016. They took in o er $183,000,000 last year and spent $193,000,000. (Source is the Department of Labor from the IAM LM2 from the year 2017.

2. That is totally false, there is no long history of corrupt IAM officers, and those that were are at the local level and the IAM audits them and turned them into the authorities, you have not cited a source.

https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/complianc ... e_2018.htm

LMRDA for this year shows zero of any IAM member charged with any type of crime.

https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/complianc ... ment_1.htm

https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/complianc ... s_2018.htm

And no civil charges for the year 2018.

A local lodge officer, not anyone at the Grand Lodge:

On October 31, 2017, in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, Stephen A. Royer, former Secretary-Treasurer of Machinists Lodge 243 (located in East Prospect, Pa.), was sentenced to one year and one day of incarceration followed by three years of supervised release. Royer was also ordered to pay restitution in the amount of $130,869 and a special assessment of $100. On June 19, 2017, Royer pled guilty to one count of embezzlement, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 501(c). The sentencing follows an investigation by the OLMS Philadelphia-Pittsburgh District Office.


On October 24, 2017, in the United States District Court for the District of Connecticut, Andrew J. Thibodeau, former Secretary-Treasurer of International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAMAW) Local Lodge 1433 (located in Kensington, Conn.), was sentenced to three months of incarceration followed by one year of supervised release with community service. Thibodeau was also ordered to pay restitution in the amount of $67,179 and a special assessment of $100. He previously paid $3,200 in restitution. On April 5, 2017, Thibodeau pled guilty to one count of embezzlement for an amount exceeding $70,000, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 501(c). The sentencing follows a joint investigation by OLMS Boston-Buffalo District Office and the Department of Labor’s Office of Inspector General.


On August 8, 2017, in the United States District Court for the District of Maine, Ryan Jones, former Secretary-Treasurer of International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAMAW) Local Lodge S6 (located in Bath, Maine), was indicted on one count of embezzling $280,865 in union funds, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 501(c). The indictment follows a joint investigation by the OLMS Boston-Buffalo District Office and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.


On June 19, 2017, in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, Stephen A. Royer, former Secretary Treasurer of Machinists Local Lodge 243 (located in East Prospect, Pa.), pled guilty to one count of embezzlement, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 501(c). The loss amount will be determined at a later date. The guilty plea follows an investigation by the OLMS Philadelphia-Pittsburgh District Office.


On March 1, 2017, in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, Stephen Royer, former Secretary-Treasurer of Machinists Lodge 243 (located in East Prospect, Pa.), was charged in a five-count indictment, which included one count of embezzling $130,870 in union funds, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 501(c), and four counts of filing false reports, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 439(b). The indictment follows an investigation by the OLMS Philadelphia-Pittsburgh District Office.


On March 1, 2017, in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, Stephen Royer, former Secretary-Treasurer of Machinists Lodge 243 (located in East Prospect, Pa.), was charged in a five-count indictment, which included one count of embezzling $130,870 in union funds, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 501(c), and four counts of filing false reports, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 439(b). The indictment follows an investigation by the OLMS Philadelphia-Pittsburgh District Office.


These were all local lodges, not the Grand Lodge and the IAM Auditors are the ones who found out and turned them into the authorities.

More white collar workers and executives have committed crimes then any union.

The jet is only used for the IP when air travel is not available, all the GVPs and Air Transport Staff fly on the Airline Passes as the IAM has negotiated Positive Space Travel with the Airlines that those representatives worked for.

The Jet was built in 1998 and built by IAM members and was obtained at cost.

Total costs of the jet for last year, including fuel, pilot salary, pilot training, aircraft maintenance and hangar leasing was $1,147,815.

What about the Fleet of Private Jets Delta owns and uses for its executives also?



3. The fund is 92% funded, it is not severally underfunded and the plan is in the green status according to the last plan summary filed with the DOL. The fund is a total and separate entity from the IAM and is made up of a board half chosen from the IAM and half from the employers who contribute into the fund and they select the plan director.

2017 Plan Funding Notice:

http://mypension.iamnpf.org/media/83265 ... 202017.pdf

2018 Green Zone Status:

http://mypension.iamnpf.org/media/83265 ... 202017.pdf

All Facts, not lies and misinformation that you have posted.

4. That is false, I have worked under IAM CBAs for over 20 years and never had a contract imposed by the IAM when the members voted it down.

Glad to see you used an anti-union biased web page for your sources. And with a few web searches on who owns and runs the page is secret, hmm, wonder why?

Domain Name: TRUTHABOUTUNIONS.ORG
Registry Domain ID: D402200000003417649-LROR
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.networksolutions.com
Registrar URL: http://www.networksolutions.com
Updated Date: 2018-06-28T08:03:58Z
Creation Date: 2017-08-27T20:13:56Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2019-08-27T20:13:56Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date:
Registrar: Network Solutions, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 2
Reseller:
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Registrant Organization:
Registrant State/Province: FL
Registrant Country: US
Name Server: NS.LIQUIDWEB.COM
Name Server: NS1.LIQUIDWEB.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: [email protected]
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.8003337680
URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form https: //www.icann.org/wicf/)
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2018-08-20T14:34:35Z <<<


5. Accused? Every single penny the IAM spends is public record https://olms.dol-esa.gov/query/orgRepor ... rm=LM2Form

You cant say the same about Delta.

Why is Delta spending millions on fighting its employees, instead of using it to improve those employees quality of life?

Why did Delta go to court to stop a DOL regulation that would have forced Delta to disclose how much they spend on union avoidance and whom they spent it with?

6. Another lie with no sources cited from you. The IAM is bonded, all those cases I have cited the monies were reimbursed.

7. The IAM did not pay any dues money back to the IAMNPF, those individuals who the DOL questioned the fund spending on advisors and functions, were repaid by the individuals who signed off on the expenses and spend it.

https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ebsa/ebsa20160721

There was a voluntary settlement agreement.

Allegations: An investigation by the U.S. Labor Department's Employee Benefits Security Administration found that the National Pension Fund defendants violated the Employee Retirement Income Security Act and breached their fiduciary duties by:

Failing to select fund service providers loyally and prudently, including consultants and fund investment managers.
Ignoring required procedures included in the fund’s governing plan documents regularly.
Creating conflicts of interest for the fund.
Unlawfully soliciting and accepting gratuities from plan service providers.
Spending and permitting others to spend fund assets lavishly on unnecessary trips, parties and extravagant food, wine and accommodations.

Resolution: A settlement agreement ordered the defendants to repay $200,000 to the fund and pay $40,000 in civil money penalties. The order also requires the plan trustees to take the following actions to protect fund participants from future violations of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act:

Within 30 days of entry of the order, adopt the new manager and consultant selection policy, which mandates that the plan trustees use a three-part search process for selecting an investment consultant or investment manager.
Engage in a new search process for a new general investment consultant for the fund, and hire an independent search consultant to conduct a comprehensive and objective request for proposal process for this search.
Amend the fund’s code of conduct and ethics to prohibit the same person from acting as both an investment consultant and investment manager for the fund.
Amend the fund’s record retention policy to hold records relating to the hiring or firing of any investment consultant or manager for six years.

Court: U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia


What is wrong with a union paying a good salaries to employees?

$75,000 is not a lot of money.

Here lets look at the Delta Executive Salaries. Delta has 83,000 employees.

https://www1.salary.com/DELTA-AIR-LINES ... aries.html

Name/Title Total Cash Equity Other Total Compensation
Edward H. Bastian
Chief Executive Officer
$2,919,535 $10,000,207 $253,669 $13,173,411
Glen W. Hauenstein
President
$2,073,891 $6,000,188 $153,110 $8,227,189
Paul A. Jacobson
Executive Vice President & Chief Financial Officer
$1,568,201 $4,000,421 $153,712 $5,722,334
W. Gil West
Senior Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer
$2,073,891 $5,250,212 $167,087 $7,491,190
Peter W. Carter
Executive Vice President & Chief Legal Officer
$1,327,938 $2,550,285 $139,990 $4,018,213

Just these officers total compensation was $38,632,337 andDelta only employees 83,000.

The IAM has 564,953 members and the IP made $269,418 in salary, and expenses for a total of $340,227

You can add all of the Executive Council salaries and expenses and it still doesnt even come close to Ed's compensation.

8. Unions dont fire employees from companies, another biased article. And it was not the International.

Tell the whole story and not cherry pick facts.

So was Richard responsible when his fuel hedging executive was charged and pled guilty to his manipulation and taking money?
 
N983AN
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:47 pm

questions wrote:
N983AN wrote:
And now America West is destroying AA with their penny wise and pound foolish management decisions that are driving away customers and AAs historic revenue premium.


A couple of months ago I flew paid First class on an AA transcon, coast to coast, but not JFK-LAX/SFO. I was underwhelmed vs what I remember from a few years ago. Skimpy dinner service. And AA has not kept up with technology. The A321 cabin looked refurbished but lacked power outlets. The experience was like flying First class in the 1980’s but with coach meal and beverage service. I’m sure Doug and the bean counters are happy they valued engineered the premium cabin offering.

The following week on another route I had the choice between AA First class and jetBlue Mint. I chose Mint. And have chosen it again.


It’s such a shame, they seem to think running AA like HP will cut it for AAs customers, what works in markets like CLT or PHX isn’t enough for the big leagues of LAX, MIA, ORD and NY.

But back to the topic at hand, all of Boofs attempts at defending the IAM are only validating what so many here and many at DL believe-there is no place for such a worthless and ineffective organization particularly when things are so good.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:53 pm

If the IAM is worthless than why do they represent more airline employees than any other union?

You have a serious bias because of TWA and the Association.

Look in the mirror you and others in the TWU at AA started the B and C Scale in 1983, took concessions outside of bankruptcy in 2003 and abandoned the F9 ramp after you organized them.

Is your equity check in the mail?

How’s those holidays that you work unde straight time?

Do you like financing your own retirement?

Is your second equity check in the mail yet?

Get you AMP card in.

Don’t let the facts get in your way.

Refute and debate with facts like I have done. Not your worthless opinion.

I’ve made a great living under the IAM CBAs I’ve worked under.
 
global1
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:25 pm

There is one thing Delta f/a's can look forward to with the IAM.

Five years without a pay raise.

That's 'laboratory' conditions while a contract is worked out.

Thanks, but I'll use my card to line the bird cage.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:05 pm

You dont know how long it would take to negotiate a contract.

Did you like your cut in PS for 15 months while the pilots got theirs?

Like not getting a hotel room during IRROPS, while the pilots got rooms?

Like your block times changed midflight so you dont go over 15 hours?

Like the pilots getting paid more block hours for the same exact flight time and trips?

Enjoy that social security offset?

Shall I continue?
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4338
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:32 pm

Airlines are historically untrustworthy from an employee-company perspective. It’s easy to say I don’t need a union when the times are good and everyone is happy with fat checks. I’m glad that I’ll have some job protections on the next industry downturn that Delta employees won’t have. While I may have to take concessions I won’t lose seniority and I’ve got enough time to keep my job. If you’re unprotected in this industry it will bite you eventually. All it will take is a shift in the management line of thinking at Delta. When the Kool Aid runs out I would want to know that I have a signed piece of paper and not a handshake agreement with management.
 
jfern022
Posts: 183
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
You dont know how long it would take to negotiate a contract.

Did you like your cut in PS for 15 months while the pilots got theirs?

Like not getting a hotel room during IRROPS, while the pilots got rooms?

Like your block times changed midflight so you dont go over 15 hours?

Like the pilots getting paid more block hours for the same exact flight time and trips?

Enjoy that social security offset?

Shall I continue?


Don’t worry Boof, when the whole drive goes down in flames, we’ll continue to enjoy our great company. The IAM will screw the workers, but keep feeding the snake oil. You happened to cherry pick on executive compensation too, a lot of that are stock options, not actual cash.

I hear UA was hiring for IFS. You can learn to go fly the surly skies!! Just pay attention during the animal in the overhead bin training, as well as the passenger dragging training. Both key components!
 
micstatic
Posts: 771
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 10:07 pm

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:38 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
jfern022 wrote:
Sure, let's bring in a union which was proven to sign fraudulent cards to try and force a vote. Yeah, exactly who we want at the table.



What is wrong with a union paying a good salaries to employees?

$75,000 is not a lot of money.

Here lets look at the Delta Executive Salaries. Delta has 83,000 employees.

https://www1.salary.com/DELTA-AIR-LINES ... aries.html

Name/Title Total Cash Equity Other Total Compensation
Edward H. Bastian
Chief Executive Officer
$2,919,535 $10,000,207 $253,669 $13,173,411
Glen W. Hauenstein
President
$2,073,891 $6,000,188 $153,110 $8,227,189
Paul A. Jacobson
Executive Vice President & Chief Financial Officer
$1,568,201 $4,000,421 $153,712 $5,722,334
W. Gil West
Senior Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer
$2,073,891 $5,250,212 $167,087 $7,491,190
Peter W. Carter
Executive Vice President & Chief Legal Officer
$1,327,938 $2,550,285 $139,990 $4,018,213

Just these officers total compensation was $38,632,337 andDelta only employees 83,000.

The IAM has 564,953 members and the IP made $269,418 in salary, and expenses for a total of $340,227

You can add all of the Executive Council salaries and expenses and it still doesnt even come close to Ed's compensation.



Why are you comparing a union workers compensation to Delta's top 5 ranked employees. The union guys obivously deserve to be paid. But let's not kid anybody here. The level of their employment is in no way comparable to the type jobs you have listed.
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:51 pm

jfern022 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
You dont know how long it would take to negotiate a contract.

Did you like your cut in PS for 15 months while the pilots got theirs?

Like not getting a hotel room during IRROPS, while the pilots got rooms?

Like your block times changed midflight so you dont go over 15 hours?

Like the pilots getting paid more block hours for the same exact flight time and trips?

Enjoy that social security offset?

Shall I continue?


Don’t worry Boof, when the whole drive goes down in flames, we’ll continue to enjoy our great company. The IAM will screw the workers, but keep feeding the snake oil. You happened to cherry pick on executive compensation too, a lot of that are stock options, not actual cash.

I hear UA was hiring for IFS. You can learn to go fly the surly skies!! Just pay attention during the animal in the overhead bin training, as well as the passenger dragging training. Both key components!


Keep ignoring the facts and avoiding any kind of reply of them.

Those PMNW got a nice equity check from their chapter 11 experience since they were unionized, how much did you get?

A big FAT ZERO.

Learn to read, I clearly posted, salary, equity (that means stock, if it is too big of a word0 and other compensation, learn to click on a link that I provided.
Last edited by Boof02671 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
slvrblt
Posts: 377
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:19 pm

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:05 pm

There are unions, and then there are ........unions. IAM. The International Association of Machinists. One of the most unsavory reputations around. The union of Charlie Bryan, who destroyed Eastern Airlines and ruined countless lives. And careers. Boasted constantly on south Florida TV on how powerful he was, and was going to ''teach Eastern management a lesson!'' Charlie won! He didn't ''buckle under.''

But he lost the war, because Eastern died. Needlessly. So - did the IAM protect Eastern's jobs?

RUN, DELTA EMPLOYEES. RUN, don't walk. Want to unionize? I hear you...........but steer clear of the IAM.
..everything works out in the end.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:12 pm

slvrblt wrote:
There are unions, and then there are ........unions. IAM. The International Association of Machinists. One of the most unsavory reputations around. The union of Charlie Bryan, who destroyed Eastern Airlines and ruined countless lives. And careers. Boasted constantly on south Florida TV on how powerful he was, and was going to ''teach Eastern management a lesson!'' Charlie won! He didn't ''buckle under.''

But he lost the war, because Eastern died. Needlessly. So - did the IAM protect Eastern's jobs?

RUN, DELTA EMPLOYEES. RUN, don't walk. Want to unionize? I hear you...........but steer clear of the IAM.


Wow its so amazing the level of lies and misinformation.

Was Charlie Bryan or the IAM banned from the airline industry?

Nope but Frank Lorenzo was!

The IAM represents more airline employees than any other union.

Take the time to learn history and the fact about EA.

I lived it my Uncle was an Inspector for EA for 29 years, Ive walked a picket line with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSSPAM3vauw&t=24s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mya5HUDOWX0&t=10s

Is there is a reason why you have to lie and post misinformation?

Use facts, or do those escape you?
 
alfa164
Posts: 3710
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:43 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
jfern022 wrote:
Sure, let's bring in a union which was proven to sign fraudulent cards to try and force a vote. Yeah, exactly who we want at the table.


Not to mention...

1. "The IAM has a history of its high-flying executives spending more money than the union takes in."

2. "In addition to a long history of corrupt union officials, the IAM is also known for the extravagant lifestyle of its executives who often travel (at union members’ expense) in the IAM’s “corporate” jet."

3. "The Machinists’ union maintains a multi-employer pension fund that is severely underfunded–which means, when union members go to retire, they may very well find the union does not have enough money to keep the promises they were promised."

4. "Machinists union members can get stuck in contracts despite a majority rejecting the contract. This is referred to ‘Contract by Default.’"

http://truthaboutunions.org/2018/01/27/ ... sts-union/


5. The IAM as been accused of having a bloated bureaucracy and of wasting union dues.

6.. The IAM has been found guilty and had federal convictions for corruption and stealing members' dies.

http://www.iamexposed.org/index.html


7. The IAM was forced to repay $200,000.00 to its members and a $40,000.00 penalty for conflict of interest in 2016.

https://freebeacon.com/issues/union-pen ... stigation/


8. IAM members who disagreed with leadership’s decisions, policies, or tactics were threatened with employment termination- and even physical harm.

http://www.workerfreedom.org/%E2%80%98i ... 0%99-bully


The IAM has 261 "employees" who make more than $75,000.00 a year. I wonder if our most prolific poster here is one of them... :roll:


First of all you ignored every single fact Ive posted, so let me reply to your false post from info you obtained from DL and other really anti-union biased sources.


First of all, despite your unfounded and accusatory claim, not a single statement I made was "obtained from DL". Each one's source is documented, and obtained by a simple Google search. To have any credibility at all, you should get your facts straight before you start (or continue) making false claims.


Boof02671 wrote:
That is totally false, there is no long history of corrupt IAM officers, and those that were are at the local level and the IAM audits them and turned them into the authorities, you have not cited a source.
https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/complianc ... e_2018.htm
LMRDA for this year shows zero of any IAM member charged with any type of crime.
https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/complianc ... ment_1.htm
https://www.dol.gov/olms/regs/complianc ... s_2018.htm
And no civil charges for the year 2018.

A local lodge officer, not anyone at the Grand Lodge:

On October 31, 2017, in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, Stephen A. Royer, former Secretary-Treasurer of Machinists Lodge 243 (located in East Prospect, Pa.), was sentenced to one year and one day of incarceration followed by three years of supervised release. Royer was also ordered to pay restitution in the amount of $130,869 and a special assessment of $100. On June 19, 2017, Royer pled guilty to one count of embezzlement, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 501(c). The sentencing follows an investigation by the OLMS Philadelphia-Pittsburgh District Office.


On October 24, 2017, in the United States District Court for the District of Connecticut, Andrew J. Thibodeau, former Secretary-Treasurer of International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAMAW) Local Lodge 1433 (located in Kensington, Conn.), was sentenced to three months of incarceration followed by one year of supervised release with community service. Thibodeau was also ordered to pay restitution in the amount of $67,179 and a special assessment of $100. He previously paid $3,200 in restitution. On April 5, 2017, Thibodeau pled guilty to one count of embezzlement for an amount exceeding $70,000, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 501(c). The sentencing follows a joint investigation by OLMS Boston-Buffalo District Office and the Department of Labor’s Office of Inspector General.


On August 8, 2017, in the United States District Court for the District of Maine, Ryan Jones, former Secretary-Treasurer of International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAMAW) Local Lodge S6 (located in Bath, Maine), was indicted on one count of embezzling $280,865 in union funds, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 501(c). The indictment follows a joint investigation by the OLMS Boston-Buffalo District Office and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.


On June 19, 2017, in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, Stephen A. Royer, former Secretary Treasurer of Machinists Local Lodge 243 (located in East Prospect, Pa.), pled guilty to one count of embezzlement, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 501(c). The loss amount will be determined at a later date. The guilty plea follows an investigation by the OLMS Philadelphia-Pittsburgh District Office.


On March 1, 2017, in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, Stephen Royer, former Secretary-Treasurer of Machinists Lodge 243 (located in East Prospect, Pa.), was charged in a five-count indictment, which included one count of embezzling $130,870 in union funds, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 501(c), and four counts of filing false reports, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 439(b). The indictment follows an investigation by the OLMS Philadelphia-Pittsburgh District Office.


On March 1, 2017, in the United States District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania, Stephen Royer, former Secretary-Treasurer of Machinists Lodge 243 (located in East Prospect, Pa.), was charged in a five-count indictment, which included one count of embezzling $130,870 in union funds, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 501(c), and four counts of filing false reports, in violation of 29 U.S.C. 439(b). The indictment follows an investigation by the OLMS Philadelphia-Pittsburgh District Office.


These were all local lodges, not the Grand Lodge and the IAM Auditors are the ones who found out and turned them into the authorities.

More white collar workers and executives have committed crimes then any union.


"No long history of corruption?" You outline what clearly looks like a history of corruption. "These were all local lodges..."; this your excuse: Now you are telling us the Grand Ayotollah Lodge doesn't keep watch on what those "Local Lodges" are doing... so only local union officials engage in rampant corruption... that is hardly an endorsement of the IAM's fiduciary responsibility toward its members' funds.

Boof02671 wrote:
The jet is only used for the IP when air travel is not available, all the GVPs and Air Transport Staff fly on the Airline Passes as the IAM has negotiated Positive Space Travel with the Airlines that those representatives worked for.
The Jet was built in 1998 and built by IAM members and was obtained at cost.
Total costs of the jet for last year, including fuel, pilot salary, pilot training, aircraft maintenance and hangar leasing was $1,147,815.
What about the Fleet of Private Jets Delta owns and uses for its executives also?


"What about... what about..." First, can you show us any "Fleet of Private Jets Delta owns and uses for its executives"? I couldn't find anything that gives your claim credibility. You can't compare the expensive, dedicated use of a private jet by union nabobs, whose role is supposedly to represent the poor, downtrodden worker, and who have a fiduciary to use those members' funds frugally and wisely, to any use of a jet by an executive of an airline that is, arguably, the best-run and most successful in the USA, if not in the world. I don't think you can say the same about the IAM in the world of unions... well. maybe you will, but no unbiased observer would...

Boof02671 wrote:
The fund is 92% funded, it is not severally underfunded and the plan is in the green status according to the last plan summary filed with the DOL. The fund is a total and separate entity from the IAM and is made up of a board half chosen from the IAM and half from the employers who contribute into the fund and they select the plan director.


I think you mean to say, "not severely underfunded"... but thanks for proving the point.

Boof02671 wrote:
Glad to see you used an anti-union biased web page for your sources. And with a few web searches on who owns and runs the page is secret, hmm, wonder why?
Domain Name: TRUTHABOUTUNIONS.ORG
Registry Domain ID: D402200000003417649-LROR
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.networksolutions.com
Registrar URL: http://www.networksolutions.com
Updated Date: 2018-06-28T08:03:58Z
Creation Date: 2017-08-27T20:13:56Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2019-08-27T20:13:56Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date:
Registrar: Network Solutions, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 2
Reseller:
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Registrant Organization:
Registrant State/Province: FL
Registrant Country: US
Name Server: NS.LIQUIDWEB.COM
Name Server: NS1.LIQUIDWEB.COM
DNSSEC: unsigned
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: [email protected]
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.8003337680
URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form https: //www.icann.org/wicf/)
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2018-08-20T14:34:35Z <<<


"The last resort of a scoundrel is to blame the messenger." In truth, I have no idea what you are trying to show here... but it seems clear you are trying to blame the messenger...unsuccessfully...

Boof02671 wrote:
Why is Delta spending millions on fighting its employees, instead of using it to improve those employees quality of life?


Are they? Can you prove it? Let's see the numbers... facts, this time.

Boof02671 wrote:
6. Another lie with no sources cited from you. The IAM is bonded, all those cases I have cited the monies were reimbursed.

https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/ebsa/ebsa20160721


You throw out "Lie!" a lot... but the source was clearly cited. Take your argument to them.

Boof02671 wrote:
Here lets look at the Delta Executive Salaries. Delta has 83,000 employees.
https://www1.salary.com/DELTA-AIR-LINES ... aries.html
Name/Title Total Cash Equity Other Total Compensation
Edward H. Bastian
Chief Executive Officer
$2,919,535 $10,000,207 $253,669 $13,173,411
Glen W. Hauenstein
President
$2,073,891 $6,000,188 $153,110 $8,227,189
Paul A. Jacobson
Executive Vice President & Chief Financial Officer
$1,568,201 $4,000,421 $153,712 $5,722,334
W. Gil West
Senior Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer
$2,073,891 $5,250,212 $167,087 $7,491,190
Peter W. Carter
Executive Vice President & Chief Legal Officer
$1,327,938 $2,550,285 $139,990 $4,018,213


Nice rundown; I wish I could apply for one of those jobs. But we all must admit those people are doing their jobs, and it is hard to argue that they don't deserve those salaries.

The real question I would like answered is: how much is the IAM paying you to post continual IAM union propaganda on the internet?

Boof02671 wrote:
Unions dont fire employees from companies, another biased article. And it was not the International.


Here we go again... "It was not the international"... it was only a local union.

I thought the who purpose of this union was solidarity... and to represent its workers' best interests. There are good, credible unions - the pilots' unions generally seem to fall in this category - but there are also those who are simply interested in adding to their membership numbers and thus to their own coffers.

If the IAM can't maintain oversight of its local officers... if it can't guarantee they are maintaining fiduciary responsibility to their members... if the IAM can't prevent repeated cases of corruption, intimidation, and retribution... why should anyone consider choosing them to represent their interests? That is the real question.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:54 pm

Ive already proved it wrong with sources that are unbiased.
 
slvrblt
Posts: 377
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:19 pm

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:56 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
slvrblt wrote:
There are unions, and then there are ........unions. IAM. The International Association of Machinists. One of the most unsavory reputations around. The union of Charlie Bryan, who destroyed Eastern Airlines and ruined countless lives. And careers. Boasted constantly on south Florida TV on how powerful he was, and was going to ''teach Eastern management a lesson!'' Charlie won! He didn't ''buckle under.''

But he lost the war, because Eastern died. Needlessly. So - did the IAM protect Eastern's jobs?

RUN, DELTA EMPLOYEES. RUN, don't walk. Want to unionize? I hear you...........but steer clear of the IAM.


Wow its so amazing the level of lies and misinformation.

Was Charlie Bryan or the IAM banned from the airline industry?

Nope but Frank Lorenzo was!

The IAM represents more airline employees than any other union.


Take the time to learn history and the fact about EA.

I lived it my Uncle was an Inspector for EA for 29 years, Ive walked a picket line with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSSPAM3vauw&t=24s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mya5HUDOWX0&t=10s

Is there is a reason why you have to lie and post misinformation?

Use facts, or do those escape you?


I was hoping you'd respond to this. Didn't want my post deleted but now I'll respond to you.
Dude - I was there. I heard Charlie Bryan. Watched his rallies. Spare me your union rhetoric and platitudes about how many people the IAM represents and their wonderfulness. That doesn't make their ugly reputation any better. You tell me, '' take the time to learn history and the fact about EA'' . Ok. I probably know more about Eastern and its hometown history than YOU do, bub. I live here, and lived thru it. You're obviously all about your union-speak, and that's your right. But don't presume to preach to me about knowing more and all about Eastern and bringing Lorenzo into this. Frank Lorenzo was bad news. But by the time he appeared, it was too late. If Charlie Bryan's hubris and intransigence with Frank Borman hadn't reached such levels of utter stupidity, they could have reached agreement. Don't forget.....the early to mid- '80s, when this was going down , was right after airline deregulation in 1978. ALL THE AIRLINES were scrambling, trying to figure out how to compete in a new environment. Eastern had high costs and couldn't sustain them. I think it was 1985 or 1986 when even the EAL pilots and FA's were willing to wage and benefit concessions to keep EAL afloat. The IAM and Charlie were more interested in fighting with Lorenzo. Apparently Charlie Bryan and IAM never heard the old saying of ''live again to fight another day.'' Bryan was all about fighting and besting Lorenzo.

Want to verify this? Just google it, or look at Miami Herald archives. Please keep your IAM union nonsense to yourself, please.
..everything works out in the end.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:00 pm

Watch this, your wrong

This is an unbiased documentary about EA.

Amazing how you let the facts get in your way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSSPAM3vauw&t=24s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mya5HUDOWX0&t=10s

Lorenzo was BANNED from the airline industry, removed from control of EA and the court appointed Martin Shugrue to run EA,
 
alfa164
Posts: 3710
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:13 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Ive already proved it wrong with sources that are unbiased.


You still haven't told us: how much is the IAM paying you?
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
global1
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:41 pm

I do know how long it takes to negotiate a contract, especially a first one: YEARS.

I have never encountered anything that boof described, except perhaps the one year my profit sharing payout averaged 12.5% (as compared to AA's 5% of a much smaller pool.
Which, by the way, was just handed to them.
Their negotiated profit sharing was 0%).
It's now back to 15%.

I also know how a union can make a workplace negative and toxic. You don't have to look beyond boof's posts to get a taste of what I mean. That was my experience at NWA.

There is a benefit though to these drives though, it keeps DL on their toes.

Aside from that, just go away.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:42 pm

Zero.

How much is Ford and Harrison paying you?m

Typical you attack the poster as you can’t refute the facts.
 
airtechy
Posts: 775
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:35 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:01 pm

I bought my first ticket on Delta in 1966 for a flight from Knoxville to Orlando.....on a DC-7 and a DC-9..and have since accumulated over 2MM with Delta. Except for three college interview trips..two on American Electras and one on a United Viscount...I have only flown domestic on Delta. Because of this, I have come to know a lot of Delta flight attendants and some have asked me what I think of the union drive. My response is that regardless of what the union says the only thing they can guarantee you is after a long negotiation a contract whose work T's and C's may be no better .. and could be worse ...than what you are enjoying now for free. I also tell them that Delta is in a position to offer good benefits ... including great profit sharing... because due to their work ethic they have allowed Delta to be the number one rated airline in the US by everyone that matters. So I tell them .. why risk great benefits and work environment on a roll of the dice? Having a union does not guarantee you more of the profit pie either especially if having a union causes service standards to degrade.

Anyone who believes that introduction of unions at Delta can be done without creating a hostile work environment is out of touch with reality .. or has an ulterior motive. All you have to do is look at the union threads on other airlines here .. including this one.

Jim
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:14 pm

global1 wrote:
I do know how long it takes to negotiate a contract, especially a first one: YEARS.

I have never encountered anything that boof described, except perhaps the one year my profit sharing payout averaged 12.5% (as compared to AA's 5% of a much smaller pool.
Which, by the way, was just handed to them.
Their negotiated profit sharing was 0%).
It's now back to 15%.

I also know how a union can make a workplace negative and toxic. You don't have to look beyond boof's posts to get a taste of what I mean. That was my experience at NWA.

There is a benefit though to these drives though, it keeps DL on their toes.

Aside from that, just go away.


First one takes years? Southwest's first contract took less than one year.

Leads to toxic culture? Friendliest FAs in the industry also Southwest.

Don't fear power of the people.
 
global1
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:42 pm

Kudos to SWA

I don't fear being part of an SWA type culture, but the likelihood of having toxic
management/labor relations more along the lines of AA and UA is not worth the risk.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:08 am

airtechy wrote:
I bought my first ticket on Delta in 1966 for a flight from Knoxville to Orlando.....on a DC-7 and a DC-9..and have since accumulated over 2MM with Delta. Except for three college interview trips..two on American Electras and one on a United Viscount...I have only flown domestic on Delta. Because of this, I have come to know a lot of Delta flight attendants and some have asked me what I think of the union drive. My response is that regardless of what the union says the only thing they can guarantee you is after a long negotiation a contract whose work T's and C's may be no better .. and could be worse ...than what you are enjoying now for free. I also tell them that Delta is in a position to offer good benefits ... including great profit sharing... because due to their work ethic they have allowed Delta to be the number one rated airline in the US by everyone that matters. So I tell them .. why risk great benefits and work environment on a roll of the dice? Having a union does not guarantee you more of the profit pie either especially if having a union causes service standards to degrade.

Anyone who believes that introduction of unions at Delta can be done without creating a hostile work environment is out of touch with reality .. or has an ulterior motive. All you have to do is look at the union threads on other airlines here .. including this one.

Jim

You do realize the pilots are unionized at DL as well as the Dispatchers and DL’s Canadian staff?
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:09 am

The average first agreement is two years.
 
NW
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:37 pm

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:09 am

airtechy wrote:
I bought my first ticket on Delta in 1966 for a flight from Knoxville to Orlando.....on a DC-7 and a DC-9..and have since accumulated over 2MM with Delta. Except for three college interview trips..two on American Electras and one on a United Viscount...I have only flown domestic on Delta. Because of this, I have come to know a lot of Delta flight attendants and some have asked me what I think of the union drive. My response is that regardless of what the union says the only thing they can guarantee you is after a long negotiation a contract whose work T's and C's may be no better .. and could be worse ...than what you are enjoying now for free. I also tell them that Delta is in a position to offer good benefits ... including great profit sharing... because due to their work ethic they have allowed Delta to be the number one rated airline in the US by everyone that matters. So I tell them .. why risk great benefits and work environment on a roll of the dice? Having a union does not guarantee you more of the profit pie either especially if having a union causes service standards to degrade.

Anyone who believes that introduction of unions at Delta can be done without creating a hostile work environment is out of touch with reality .. or has an ulterior motive. All you have to do is look at the union threads on other airlines here .. including this one.

Jim


There are several thousand union employees at Delta and they make our airline great just as the non union ones do. Many of these union employees enjoy industry leading pay, benefits and work rules. They don't have to take pay cuts to receive "great profit sharing". I agree with you Delta is in a position to offer "great benefits" but the truth is the union employees at Delta receive superior benefits.
 
global1
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:16 am

All of our employees contribute to the success of the enterprise.

However, if you take pilots out of your equation, what you're left with is a few hundred (Dispatchers, I believe).

Historically ALPA has had generally good relations with Delta. IAM, on the other hand, has been acrimonius and negative from the git-go.
 
N983AN
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:01 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
The average first agreement is two years.


When it comes to concessionary agreements the IAM moves fast but they take their time making gains for the membership. And they don’t get to collect dues until the agreement gets ratified so they will rush into a substandard agreement to fill their coffers.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:29 pm

1983 TWU at AA agrees to B and C Scale.

2003 TWU agrees to massive concessions outside of bankruptcy.

Last WN ramp agreement agrees to concessions in their agreement.

Look in the mirror.

Last year or this year TWU voted out AA for the dispatchers.

Oh don’t forget how the TWU abandoned the F9 ramp after they were voted in and they all lost their jobs.

Enjoy your higher cost medical, worse scope, less holidays, vacation etc than your IAM counterparts.
 
richierich
Moderator
Posts: 3630
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:20 pm

jumbojet wrote:

anything is possible. All a union will do for Delta is pit employee against employer. bad for the company and bad for the frequent fliers.


This cannot be...for once, I actually completely agree with jumbojet!
While union representation would hardly mean the end of DL, I agree that the company's bargaining power would obviously be more limited. The same workers who join unions usually do so on the back of false promises and end up getting screwed out of union dues in the process. Some people on here (mostly likely union members or leaders) will say union representation is a win-win for employer and employee; I could not have a more different opinion. Many good airlines - and hundreds of thousands of union and non-union employees - have been trashed over the years because of union demands in this industry.
None shall pass!!!!
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:32 pm

BS.

Statistics show unionized workforce’s are more productive.

The pilots are unionized.

WN the most successful and profitable airline over the last 20 years is the most unionized airline in the industry.

The FAs are being treated like crap, that’s why they want a union.

Shall I list examples of what is going on there?
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1455
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Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:54 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
BS.

Statistics show unionized workforce’s are more productive.

The pilots are unionized.

WN the most successful and profitable airline over the last 20 years is the most unionized airline in the industry.

The FAs are being treated like crap, that’s why they want a union.

Shall I list examples of what is going on there?


Apparently the flight attendants DON'T want a union. There have benn multiple campaigns over the years, and each time it has failed.

Saying that "the flight attendants want a union," is incorrect and only stating what you want.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:00 pm

There are thousands of cards signed and the goal is almost reached.

Guess you missed the huge rally in ATL last week?

Delta even called the cops on them, cops couldn’t do a thing as they obtained the legal permits.

If they don’t want a union why is Delta spending millions fighting it?

And most organizing campaigns take several times. This is the first IAM Card Drive.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1455
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:05 pm

Boof02671 wrote:

And most organizing campaigns take several times. This is the first IAM Card Drive.


?????

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatod ... p/25371393
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:20 pm

This is the same campaign.

Read the thread it’s all explained.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1455
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:26 pm

Wow, slicing things pretty thin there.

So this campaign has been going on for how many years then? And how much has IAM spent?

And what about the post merger campaign, did IAM have no part in that?

Good luck by the way....it appears you will need it.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 2278
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta F/A's & Fleet Workers Could Vote on Union Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:34 pm

Doesnt matter what the IAM spends, per the AFLCIO, each member union must spend 3% on organizing, the IAM has $300,000,000 in cash and assets.

How much is Delta spending?

Why did DL go to court to fight the DOL rule that a company has to release how much they are spending on Union Avoidance and with whom?

Does anyone know how to post a picture?

I cant seem to get it working.

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