gizghor
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What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:05 am

I heard that at first airlines didn't really want the 717 and due to that only 156 were built, but now airlines are trying to get their hands on them being their limited availability and that they're a great 100-seater plane that can be used for regional flights (according to a Business Insider article I read).

Now I'm wondering what will supersede that plane, and what Hawaiian, Delta, and Qantas will use once their 717's have gone through one too many years and flight cycles of use.

On a side note, Idk why but I like the design of the engines being mounted on the rear of the plane.
 
flyguy84
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:08 am

A220
SFO
 
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FA9295
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:08 am

Airbus A220 and Embraer E190 jets would be the most likely replacements, IMO.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:14 am

Only thing a 717 can do that the A220 and E2 can't is the Hawaiian high-cycle utilization model... it's mostly an engine issue... the original JT8D could do it, The BR71x can do it, the CFM56, JT8D-2xx, PW1000, LEAP etc cannot handle the short flights and high cycle count. So once the 717 is too long in the tooth, Hawaiian will need something different than the options available now. Shouldn't be an issue anywhere else (DL QF etc)
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lightsaber
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:38 am

The 717 became popular when they became cheap in quantity.

Midwest went bankrupt and the 717 sat (mostly) until AeroMexico realized they couldn't afford E190 leases. When AeroMexico went bankrupt, Volotea accepted the 717 on rumored cheap leases.

If Volotea could get out of leases, they would buy used a319s.

FA9295 wrote:
Airbus A220 and Embraer E190 jets would be the most likely replacements, IMO.

Modify that to A220 and E2-195 and I agree for high utilization 717s (HA&DL).

For lower utilization 717s (Volotea & QF), used narrowbody aircraft. Right now more A319s are looking for homes due to Cebu Pacific and Easyjet rolling them out of the fleet. 73Gs are more rare due to WN bidding them up at the 733 retirement a year ago (they let their fleet shrink temporarily as not enough used 73G/738 at the right price)..

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zkncj
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:50 am

Qantas 717s will be around for an while, age doesn’t seem to concern them. In recent year they have have added an reasonable amount of F100s to fleet to increase there fleet size in the 100 seater market, which shows they aren’t to concerned about age, being these F100s were already 15-20 years old.

I would expect Qantas to keep the 717s in service until they are about 30 years old.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:23 am

lightsaber wrote:
AeroMexico realized they couldn't afford E190 leases. When AeroMexico went bankrupt, Volotea accepted the 717 on rumored cheap leases.

Mexicana
 
acjbbj
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:27 am

717 MAX 2

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aemoreira1981
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:43 am

northstardc4m wrote:
Only thing a 717 can do that the A220 and E2 can't is the Hawaiian high-cycle utilization model... it's mostly an engine issue... the original JT8D could do it, The BR71x can do it, the CFM56, JT8D-2xx, PW1000, LEAP etc cannot handle the short flights and high cycle count. So once the 717 is too long in the tooth, Hawaiian will need something different than the options available now. Shouldn't be an issue anywhere else (DL QF etc)


Could the CRK (Bombardier CRJ-1000) be somewhat of a compromise replacement? Hawaiian has no scope clause other than to say that regional aircraft with less than 50 seats can't be flown on routes with mainline aircraft. Because they are only 100 seat planes in an all Y configuration (but HA would probably want some W seats), these planes would probably be something like W6Y90. (The 717s are W8Y120.) This would require a fleet of 28 CRKs to equal capacity and likely additional pilots, which is where the additional cost would be incurred, as it would be problematic transferring whole routes from Hawaiian to Empire. That said, I expect Hawaiian to fly the 717 until planes approach 100,000 FC. Typical B717 stages for HA are about 15-35 minutes, and frequency matters (HNL-OGG, for instance, can have as many as 28 HA B717 flights a day).

The problem for HA though: the CRK is only certified for 60,000 FC and an HA 717 typically flies 10-12 flights a day.

For everyone else, the E195/E295 and the A221 is an ideal replacement. (The A223 is basically an A319 replacement.)
 
XRadar98
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:07 am

gizghor wrote:
I heard that at first airlines didn't really want the 717 and due to that only 156 were built, but now airlines are trying to get their hands on them being their limited availability and that they're a great 100-seater plane that can be used for regional flights (according to a Business Insider article I read).

Now I'm wondering what will supersede that plane, and what Hawaiian, Delta, and Qantas will use once their 717's have gone through one too many years and flight cycles of use.

On a side note, Idk why but I like the design of the engines being mounted on the rear of the plane.


QANTAS is an acronym, so all caps.
 
Qf648
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:11 am

You’d have to say used a220 e190 and Mitsubishi mrj
 
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aerolimani
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:17 am

XRadar98 wrote:
gizghor wrote:
I heard that at first airlines didn't really want the 717 and due to that only 156 were built, but now airlines are trying to get their hands on them being their limited availability and that they're a great 100-seater plane that can be used for regional flights (according to a Business Insider article I read).

Now I'm wondering what will supersede that plane, and what Hawaiian, Delta, and Qantas will use once their 717's have gone through one too many years and flight cycles of use.

On a side note, Idk why but I like the design of the engines being mounted on the rear of the plane.


QANTAS is an acronym, so all caps.

You'd better inform them that they're doing it wrong, on their own website. https://www.qantas.com/
 
NTLDaz
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:20 am

QANTAS is an acronym, so all caps.[/quote]

Qantas was an acronym. Now it's just a company name.
 
XRadar98
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:24 am

aerolimani wrote:
XRadar98 wrote:
gizghor wrote:
I heard that at first airlines didn't really want the 717 and due to that only 156 were built, but now airlines are trying to get their hands on them being their limited availability and that they're a great 100-seater plane that can be used for regional flights (according to a Business Insider article I read).

Now I'm wondering what will supersede that plane, and what Hawaiian, Delta, and Qantas will use once their 717's have gone through one too many years and flight cycles of use.

On a side note, Idk why but I like the design of the engines being mounted on the rear of the plane.


QANTAS is an acronym, so all caps.

You'd better inform them that they're doing it wrong, on their own website. https://www.qantas.com/


So like Radar now? I missed that
 
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vatveng
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:25 am

XRadar98 wrote:
gizghor wrote:
I heard that at first airlines didn't really want the 717 and due to that only 156 were built, but now airlines are trying to get their hands on them being their limited availability and that they're a great 100-seater plane that can be used for regional flights (according to a Business Insider article I read).

Now I'm wondering what will supersede that plane, and what Hawaiian, Delta, and Qantas will use once their 717's have gone through one too many years and flight cycles of use.

On a side note, Idk why but I like the design of the engines being mounted on the rear of the plane.


QANTAS is an acronym, so all caps.


Not anymore. It's officially "Qantas" now.

https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/ ... /global/en
 
XRadar98
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:36 am

vatveng wrote:
XRadar98 wrote:
gizghor wrote:
I heard that at first airlines didn't really want the 717 and due to that only 156 were built, but now airlines are trying to get their hands on them being their limited availability and that they're a great 100-seater plane that can be used for regional flights (according to a Business Insider article I read).

Now I'm wondering what will supersede that plane, and what Hawaiian, Delta, and Qantas will use once their 717's have gone through one too many years and flight cycles of use.

On a side note, Idk why but I like the design of the engines being mounted on the rear of the plane.


QANTAS is an acronym, so all caps.


Not anymore. It's officially "Qantas" now.

https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/ ... /global/en


It still fits the eye better with all caps!
 
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fraspotter
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:51 am

XRadar98 wrote:
vatveng wrote:
XRadar98 wrote:

QANTAS is an acronym, so all caps.


Not anymore. It's officially "Qantas" now.

https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/ ... /global/en


It still fits the eye better with all caps!


As part of the livery on the aircraft yes. For other instances it just comes across as shouting. As others have mentioned it is now treated the same as words like radar, laser, taser, scuba etc that began as acronyms but their actual meanings faded over time through common usage.
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XRadar98
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:57 am

fraspotter wrote:
XRadar98 wrote:
vatveng wrote:

Not anymore. It's officially "Qantas" now.

https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/ ... /global/en


It still fits the eye better with all caps!


As part of the livery on the aircraft yes. For other instances it just comes across as shouting. As others have mentioned it is now treated the same as words like radar, laser, taser, scuba etc that began as acronyms but their actual meanings faded over time through common usage.


It still looks better all caps, probably because of the QA part, shouting online notwithstanding. Normal English does not have an A after a Q
 
sunking737
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:16 am

Any way back to the topic at hand 717 replacement.......
I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
N415XJ
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:17 am

Re: Hawaiian- once the 717s start getting too old to keep going, couldn't turboprops be an option? Instead of 20 717s, how about 40 ATR-72s, or perhaps some future ATR that might come along in the next 15-20 years? It just seems to make sense to me- turboprops were made for efficiently flying lots of short flights per day. They already have -42s with their 'Ohana subsidiary, and IIRC the ATR in and of itself wasn't responsible for Island Air's demise.
 
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:50 am

N415XJ wrote:
Re: Hawaiian- once the 717s start getting too old to keep going, couldn't turboprops be an option? Instead of 20 717s, how about 40 ATR-72s, or perhaps some future ATR that might come along in the next 15-20 years? It just seems to make sense to me- turboprops were made for efficiently flying lots of short flights per day. They already have -42s with their 'Ohana subsidiary, and IIRC the ATR in and of itself wasn't responsible for Island Air's demise.


Their biggest advantage is efficient jet service in decently sized planes. They fly them fast and turn them fast. A turboprop would be slightly slower, carry less cargo but is cheaper to operate. In the end it could be a turn off for some folks as for some reason turboprops are viewed as decrepit and unsafe by many. That could give an opportunity for another airline (WN) to really beef up an already competing interisland service.
 
32andBelow
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:26 am

There’s not many markets were you need a 717 and can’t run a 737
 
VSMUT
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:19 am

gizghor wrote:
I heard that at first airlines didn't really want the 717 and due to that only 156 were built, but now airlines are trying to get their hands on them being their limited availability and that they're a great 100-seater plane that can be used for regional flights (according to a Business Insider article I read).


No, only 3 airlines are trying to get their hands on them, and only because they are really cheap.


WN732 wrote:
That could give an opportunity for another airline (WN) to really beef up an already competing interisland service.


How? Didn't we just establish that 737s aren't workable on inter-island flights? Wouldn't any other airline have the same struggles?

The simple solution of course is to replace the 717 with ATRs or Q400s on the shortest and lowest demanded flights, and then reduce the utilization of the 717s to the longer flights. Most Hawaiian interisland flights aren't going to be noticeably faster on a jet either. You can't fly faster than 250 knots below 10.000 ft anyway.
 
gizghor
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:19 am

WN732 wrote:
In the end it could be a turn off for some folks as for some reason turboprops are viewed as decrepit and unsafe by many.


I don't think anyone thinks this. Being how Horizon and FlyBe operate turboprops, I don't think there's much reason to believe they're somehow objectively inferior.
 
log0008
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:28 am

One of the big reason QF favor the 717 and F100 is the rear mounted engine much better for short field departures on unsealed or low quality runways seen at mine sites. Wing Mounted engines are much more likely in ingest stones etc.
 
a320fan
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:06 am

VSMUT wrote:
How? Didn't we just establish that 737s aren't workable on inter-island flights? Wouldn't any other airline have the same struggles?


An airline like WN would be able to cycle the 737s through the whole network so they aren’t constantly doing the short II sectors.
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:27 am

log0008 wrote:
One of the big reason QF favor the 717 and F100 is the rear mounted engine much better for short field departures on unsealed or low quality runways seen at mine sites. Wing Mounted engines are much more likely in ingest stones etc.


QF don't send the F100s nor 717s to unsealed strips.
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aerolimani
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:09 pm

gizghor wrote:
WN732 wrote:
In the end it could be a turn off for some folks as for some reason turboprops are viewed as decrepit and unsafe by many.


I don't think anyone thinks this. Being how Horizon and FlyBe operate turboprops, I don't think there's much reason to believe they're somehow objectively inferior.

No person, who is even slightly educated in how aviation works, will automatically think that a prop is either old or unsafe. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of the general public. While boarding Q400's, I have overheard various versions of this conversation. Sad, but true.

Passenger 1: OMG, look! Our plane has propellors!
Passenger 2: How old is this thing? It must be at least 40 years old, right?
Passenger 1: That's crazy! Do you think it's safe?

Out of curiosity, how is the CF34 for short sectors and fast turnarounds? It's obviously not for a new design 717 successor, but for HA, could the 1st gen E-Jet or CRJ900/1000 work?
 
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:33 pm

FA9295 wrote:
Airbus A220 and Embraer E190 jets would be the most likely replacements, IMO.


This.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:58 pm

Slug71 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
Airbus A220 and Embraer E190 jets would be the most likely replacements, IMO.


This.

I agree for high utilization. Others, they were bought cheap and that means they compete with used narrowbody aircraft.

For HA, the MRJ is an option.

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DL757NYC
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:12 pm

Maybe we can start a new thread for Boeing to reopen the 757 and 717 lines. LOL funny how the sought after models are the ones no longer in production like the 757/767 pass 717 meanwhile Airbus is going to sell tons of C series and 321LR. While Boeing cooks up the next 737 called the 737 maxed out. The engines will be so low to the ground it will come with a standard gravel kit. And retractable tail stand so it doesn’t tip nose up like the 737-900
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:17 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
Only thing a 717 can do that the A220 and E2 can't is the Hawaiian high-cycle utilization model... it's mostly an engine issue... the original JT8D could do it, The BR71x can do it, the CFM56, JT8D-2xx, PW1000, LEAP etc cannot handle the short flights and high cycle count. So once the 717 is too long in the tooth, Hawaiian will need something different than the options available now. Shouldn't be an issue anywhere else (DL QF etc)


Maybe HA Can buy up all VIP DC-9 and MD-87 models with low cycles and convert them back to passenger models. All kidding aside if Delta gets rid of the 717 HA would buy all 91 of them
 
MakeMinesLAX
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:21 pm

a320fan wrote:
An airline like WN would be able to cycle the 737s through the whole network so they aren’t constantly doing the short II sectors.

But to make the mainland-Hawaii hop they'd need to have ETOPS certification, and it wouldn't make sense to have them doing "ordinary" flights.
 
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OA940
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:33 pm

A220-100 is the best replacement. It has the same 2-3 layout and the same certified capacity, so it should match configurations better. Plus it offers better fuel efficiency and range. Otherwise airlines have the E195-E2 option.
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cathay747
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:50 pm

This is a real dilemma for HA...a 717 replacement. All speculation here aside, HA have said there currently is nothing on the market that can replace it for them, and I presume that means they've investigated the CSeries/A220. Time will tell. Maybe one of the engine OEM's can do some sort of tweak/PIP which would solve the issue of the short turn times for HA. From what I've read in the past, it's all about engine cooling between flights.
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:38 pm

OA940 wrote:
A220-100 is the best replacement. It has the same 2-3 layout and the same certified capacity, so it should match configurations better. Plus it offers better fuel efficiency and range. Otherwise airlines have the E195-E2 option.


But can it handle the ultra short routes where the engines don't have enough time to cool. With all the problems PW is having with similar GTF engines on A320 NEO's, can the engines on the A220 handle the short flights and turnarounds of Hawaii interisland flights?
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:37 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
OA940 wrote:
A220-100 is the best replacement. It has the same 2-3 layout and the same certified capacity, so it should match configurations better. Plus it offers better fuel efficiency and range. Otherwise airlines have the E195-E2 option.


But can it handle the ultra short routes where the engines don't have enough time to cool. With all the problems PW is having with similar GTF engines on A320 NEO's, can the engines on the A220 handle the short flights and turnarounds of Hawaii interisland flights?


Apparently, the answer to that is more time on the ground between flights = more airplanes (if frequency is of importance)

I.e. anything to replace 717 in HA service, all other things being equal (seating capacity, capability to take multiple surfboards into cargo hold, speed, etc.) will have to be bought in larger quantity.
More planes = more crews (unless you expect crews to switch planes, while engines cool down, all the time)

So, if additional 717 frames were suddenly to become available, in a limited number, I guess HA would tolerate paying for them more than pretty much any other bidder.
Am I correct in assuming that of all current operators, only Volotea talks of retiring them?
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bluejuice
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:39 pm

acjbbj wrote:
717 MAX 2

717 MAX 3


I'm guessing it would be the 717 MAX 8 and MAX 9. According to every gee-whiz marketing genius, that is the only way to sell planes in East Asian countries. I'm sure their market research claims people only get on planes with 8s and 9s in the name. :D
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32andBelow
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:54 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
OA940 wrote:
A220-100 is the best replacement. It has the same 2-3 layout and the same certified capacity, so it should match configurations better. Plus it offers better fuel efficiency and range. Otherwise airlines have the E195-E2 option.


But can it handle the ultra short routes where the engines don't have enough time to cool. With all the problems PW is having with similar GTF engines on A320 NEO's, can the engines on the A220 handle the short flights and turnarounds of Hawaii interisland flights?


Apparently, the answer to that is more time on the ground between flights = more airplanes (if frequency is of importance)

I.e. anything to replace 717 in HA service, all other things being equal (seating capacity, capability to take multiple surfboards into cargo hold, speed, etc.) will have to be bought in larger quantity.
More planes = more crews (unless you expect crews to switch planes, while engines cool down, all the time)

So, if additional 717 frames were suddenly to become available, in a limited number, I guess HA would tolerate paying for them more than pretty much any other bidder.
Am I correct in assuming that of all current operators, only Volotea talks of retiring them?

Absolutely no reason why crews cant switch planes.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:05 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Absolutely no reason why crews cant switch planes.

Oh yes, in theory they of course can.
Is the amount of pre-flight preparation, checks and paperwork, and post-flight checks and paperwork, the same for the island-hopping crew of 717 on tight turns, and a crew that walks into a plane it hasn't seen yet, on the flight day?
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DDR
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:09 pm

N415XJ wrote:
Re: Hawaiian- once the 717s start getting too old to keep going, couldn't turboprops be an option? Instead of 20 717s, how about 40 ATR-72s, or perhaps some future ATR that might come along in the next 15-20 years? It just seems to make sense to me- turboprops were made for efficiently flying lots of short flights per day. They already have -42s with their 'Ohana subsidiary, and IIRC the ATR in and of itself wasn't responsible for Island Air's demise.


I agree with you. On the inter island flights, there is no need to HAVE to operate jets. The block times are so short that a 717 has no advantage over an ATR-72. And an ATR can carry a lot of baggage/cargo. No way can WN compete with their 737s based on frequencies.
 
777PHX
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:56 pm

I find it bizarre how often this Hawaiian 717 engine topic gets discussed around here. Weekly. The HA 717s are probably still a decade away from retirement.
 
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compensateme
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:47 pm

As mentioned, the A220, E2, MRJ and SSJ are available to satisfy the needs of the market the 717 was intended for.

But seriously, the a.net fantasy portrayal of the 717 needs to end. Production ended because nobody wanted it — FL said the 73G has the same per trip cost, but could generate significantly more revenue. And when WN decided the 717 wouldn’t be a good fit, it couldn’t find any takers and considered parking the aircraft. Then DL agreed to assume the leases, but only after WN agreed to give DL an estimated few million per aircraft to do so.
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compensateme
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:51 pm

777PHX wrote:
I find it bizarre how often this Hawaiian 717 engine topic gets discussed around here. Weekly. The HA 717s are probably still a decade away from retirement.


Agreed; many DC-9 lasted 40 years, and other 717 — probably including some operated today by DL — will hit the market soon. HA could well fly the 717 another 20 years - longer than it’s been in its fleet.
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NWAROOSTER
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:29 am

Delta is going to fly the wings off their 717s and may be able to fly them longer than Hawaiian due to the fact that Hawaiian flies their aircraft in a salt air environment. Unless an engine builder manufactures an engine that tolerates short turn arounds Hawaiian will need to have flight crew change aircraft to allow the engines to cool down or start acquiring turboprops that can tolerate short turn arounds. No more 717s will be built and they will at some time not be supported by parts manufactures. :old:
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DeltaMD95
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:48 pm

How many years from now until the 717 runs into the parts issue of the MD80 or the engine overhaul cost increase of the MD90?
Did you know that a Boeing 717-200 is really a McDonnell Douglas MD95-30? ;-)
 
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NWAROOSTER
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:53 pm

DeltaMD95 wrote:
How many years from now until the 717 runs into the parts issue of the MD80 or the engine overhaul cost increase of the MD90?

If Delta wants to fly the MD-90 for another five to ten years it will. They will fly the MD-90 using MD-90s that they retire as feed stock. They will get every nickel out of them. ADs and extremely expensive heavy checks will bring about their demise. Delta is currently using their retired MD-80s and some they bought from American for feedstock. :old:
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lightsaber
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:45 pm

DeltaMD95 wrote:
How many years from now until the 717 runs into the parts issue of the MD80 or the engine overhaul cost increase of the MD90?

The issue with the MD-90 is DL must estimate part demand accurately. Yes, overhauls are pricey as not enough shops want to bother bidding on a fleet, so they dropped service.

Since the BR700 can be overhauled by DL, they will be able to control costs.
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planecane
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:45 pm

a320fan wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
How? Didn't we just establish that 737s aren't workable on inter-island flights? Wouldn't any other airline have the same struggles?


An airline like WN would be able to cycle the 737s through the whole network so they aren’t constantly doing the short II sectors.


How many mainland to Hawaii flights per day do you expect WN to be running to have aircraft on the islands for the short hops?

On some random day I picked, HA has 20 flights from LIH to HNL. I don't think WN can do anything close to that by cycling aircraft through the system.
 
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DL717
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Re: What will supersede the Boeing 717

Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:49 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
OA940 wrote:
A220-100 is the best replacement. It has the same 2-3 layout and the same certified capacity, so it should match configurations better. Plus it offers better fuel efficiency and range. Otherwise airlines have the E195-E2 option.


But can it handle the ultra short routes where the engines don't have enough time to cool. With all the problems PW is having with similar GTF engines on A320 NEO's, can the engines on the A220 handle the short flights and turnarounds of Hawaii interisland flights?


Increase the ground time between flights.

If not, current model E190/195 may be an option as would current model A320 family/737NG when they near the end of the production run and can get them on the cheap if it really is a major issue with the GTF on the A220s. MRJ might be an option, but they use the GTF as well. It could also be we see some sort of engine enhancement that makes the high cycle environment viable with the new engines. I’m guessing with the HA 717s they have about 7-10 years left in them. I think they got their last one in 2005 or something like that.
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