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piedmontf284000
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New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:54 am

Ahead of integrating legacy US Airways and legacy American flight attendant teams into a single crew system on October 1, AA announced a new policy Thursday night that puts restrictions on their time off. Under the new rule, FA's would be "tagged" with points for the following offenses:

taking more than 2 personal days
being late for work
being reported as a no-show for a flight
calling in sick during "critical periods," which include three of the busiest travel times of the year: the Fourth of July (July 1 to 7), Thanksgiving (from the Wednesday before Thanksgiving to the Sunday after), and Christmas/New Year's Day (Dec. 22 to Jan. 3).

A Flight Attendant that amasses too many points within a 12-month rolling period would be potentially severe:

4 to 6 points: performance review
8 points: final warning
10 points: termination

The FA's are deeming this "cruel" and "disastrous". Seems to me, this is more in line with policies throughout the industry. No-showing or being late are pretty serious offenses in my opinion, because it jeopardizes an entire flight. Taking personal days does seem a bit harsh and taking time off during holidays should be restricted to the most senior FA's.


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spacecadet
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:04 am

Sounds reasonable. In line with most industries.

Calling in sick is supposed to be for just that. I know we all do it when we're not supposed to, but you can't exactly be pissed about being called out for something you're not supposed to do. If you get away with it, good for you. If you don't, you don't.

Being late, or a no-show, I mean, that's already termination right there at a lot of jobs.

The personal days thing is iffy, I guess, but a lot of jobs get *no* personal days. If I had a job where we had, say, 3 personal days, and they cut it to 2, I'd probably be a little pissed too, but them's the breaks when two companies merge. Policies do change, and not always for the better. It sucks, but we all go through it at times. Eventually, things even out.
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caoimhin
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:07 am

With the exception of “taking more than two personal days”, which I assume are allotted time off, these seem reasonable for an employee in a service industry that requires precision in scheduling (i.e. reliability and punctuality) and some compromises during seasonal periods of high volume.
 
ubeema
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:29 am

Looks to me the 3 strike rule apply here. Fair enough.
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:34 am

None of that seems unreasonable seems to me it just is underperforming staff wanting to try to get more time off. Being a no-show particularly at an outstation could lead to a cancelation and a lot of lost revenue to the airline.
 
32andBelow
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:56 am

Any what if your actually sick during those periods? Good luck getting this last any Union.
 
Eirules
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:58 am

As someone who manages in a service industry, we have a similar points based system for lateness and absenteeism. While it doesn’t eliminate it, it allows managers to clearly manage attendance with set down rules which aren’t subjective or open to “favoritism”. IMO more industries should adopt it
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airtran737
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:19 am

Maybe this will weed out some of the geriatric mommas who abuse the system.
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smi0006
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:23 am

What’s a personal day? I’ve never heard of that in AU before?

I don’t believe in penalising sick leave, so long as you have required documentation. Most Australian shift companies allow 5days undocumented a year, after that a medical certificate is required, and is permissable inline with accrued sick leave. However, if a patter is detected- the company would inevestigate if the employees health is suitable for the role.

No excuse for ongoing late ness and a noshow! A point makes sense, so long as there is scope for understanding.
 
Theseus
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:30 am

I am not living in the US, so I am not fully aware of the regulations there; thus, my comments may be very naive, but I am quite surprised here.

I do not understanding how "no show for a flight" even remotely compares to "calling sick" or "personal days".

In my country, "calling sick" means you show a medical certificate (signed by a doctor) that testifies you cannot work on that day, due to medical reason. This is nothing like just not showing up for work, with no justification. I would add that, as a passenger, I would rather travel with cabin crew who are not hiding a medical condition that should prevent them from working just to avoid the risk of being fired. In fact, my understanding was that airlines are making contingency plans for that.

And, what does "personal days" mean ? Is it days off ? Or unpaid leave ? Whatever, if the airline has a procedure to allow this, how could using that procedure even compare to just not showing up for work (which should indeed be considered a serious offense).
 
Samrnpage
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:24 am

In what way is that cruel or disastrous? Fairly standard that.
 
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DexSwart
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:35 am

As far as my work experience goes, I’ve heard of personal days interchange with bereavement leave.

If this is the case at AA, then I’m disgusted.

As for the “Not calling in sick during critical periods” rule, I don’t think this would fly in any other developed country. You can’t legitimately expect a worker to come into work sick, underperform, possibly even become incapacitated because it might go on their record.

Being late, and being a no show rules though make a lot of sense to me and seem reasonably fair.
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Scorpio
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:35 am

Wait, so it's actually LEGAL in the US to punish employees for being unable to come to work for a few days due to illness? That's outrageous!

Would the airline seriously rather the employee with, say the flu, still come in and infect half the plane??
 
chonetsao
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:47 am

Theseus wrote:
I am not living in the US, so I am not fully aware of the regulations there; thus, my comments may be very naive, but I am quite surprised here.

I do not understanding how "no show for a flight" even remotely compares to "calling sick" or "personal days".

In my country, "calling sick" means you show a medical certificate (signed by a doctor) that testifies you cannot work on that day, due to medical reason. This is nothing like just not showing up for work, with no justification. I would add that, as a passenger, I would rather travel with cabin crew who are not hiding a medical condition that should prevent them from working just to avoid the risk of being fired. In fact, my understanding was that airlines are making contingency plans for that.

And, what does "personal days" mean ? Is it days off ? Or unpaid leave ? Whatever, if the airline has a procedure to allow this, how could using that procedure even compare to just not showing up for work (which should indeed be considered a serious offense).


I assume calling sick means when you feel down or unwell for no particular reason or reasons that is could not be medically determined.

Sick Leave means a doctor certify you being sick and need rest.

AA is aiming for reducing Calling Sick behaviours, rather than Sick Leave. And I am very sure with doctors certificate, a Calling Sick will be converted to Sick Leave thus no point deducted.

I am not sure what Personal Days mean. But that may mean a change of roster due to personal reasons like sudden meeting required by school principles so that the workers had to no show and claim personal days? Or maybe car broke down that the worker can not work etc.? Maybe some AA employee can tell us here.
 
chonetsao
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:56 am

Scorpio wrote:
Wait, so it's actually LEGAL in the US to punish employees for being unable to come to work for a few days due to illness? That's outrageous!

Would the airline seriously rather the employee with, say the flu, still come in and infect half the plane??


No I think you have misunderstood the concept. The work practise in any company I have worked with is as follow: if you are ill, and get a doctors certificate to show that, you are entitled to have Sick Leave (obviously would not be against you). Calling Sick means you get up in the morning you had an headache, upset stomach or just feeling unwell in general, which can not be proved by doctor in certificate. And the latter is what AA tries to reduce. And the latter have been used by many people in a coordinated strike.
 
cofannyc
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:22 am

DexSwart wrote:
As far as my work experience goes, I’ve heard of personal days interchange with bereavement leave.

If this is the case at AA, then I’m disgusted.


That's not the common meaning in the US. Bereavement leave is usually separate from personal days.

My company defines them as:

a paid day of leave from work for reasons other than illness, vacation or bereavement, taken at the employee's discretion.


We are allocated 2 per year. I'm guessing AA does similar so taking more than 2 to them is seen as being analogous to being AWOL in the military, which is kind of fair if you're taking leave in excess of what you're allowed without prior approval.
 
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DexSwart
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:53 am

cofannyc wrote:

That's not the common meaning in the US. Bereavement leave is usually separate from personal days.

My company defines them as:

a paid day of leave from work for reasons other than illness, vacation or bereavement, taken at the employee's discretion.


We are allocated 2 per year. I'm guessing AA does similar so taking more than 2 to them is seen as being analogous to being AWOL in the military, which is kind of fair if you're taking leave in excess of what you're allowed without prior approval.


I agree with that! Thank you for the clarification. I guess the company I worked for assumed personal to mean emotionally challenging. It seems totally fair if you just decide not to show up for work.

My work also says after two days off it’s classified as abandonment of duties so so it’d Be much the same.

Surely if you need time off for whatever, surely you can just apply for standard annual leave? I don’t think AA care what you do for this time, just that it is documented and not on peak days?

Seems totally fair.

What on earth were the previous rules then?
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micstatic
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:07 pm

kind of made me remember stories my pilot buddies used to brag about. How they were able to create these "mega vacations" by combining sick time and regular vacation by calling out sick at a precise time.
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usflyer msp
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:12 pm

AA FA's are biggest whiners in the industry. I am shocked that AA did not already have something like this; this standard progressive discipline.
 
BlatantEcho
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:12 pm

Not much is 'cruel' or 'disastrous' about there being consequences for when you decide to lie to your employer because it benefits you.
 
rivervisual
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:14 pm

I am not sure how AA has it set up but at a previous employer we had a rule that if you had 3 or more days of consecutive sick days you had to provide a doctor's certificate or it would not be authorized as sick time.

I suspect AA is looking to do something similar with their PTO time.
 
jumbojet
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:15 pm

Lets say someone has a sick family member at home and needed to take some personal days to care for them. Now, within the same calendar year, they get legitimately sick but instead of calling in sick, they come in because they are afraid of being punished or fired. Now, that person who came in gets others sick and passengers sick. I hope AA applies common sense in situations that warrant it.

OTOH, lets say I am single, only care for myself and never have lateness or other issues with making it to work. This program will allow me to take every Christmas day and New Years Eve off without penalty.
 
Maverick623
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:21 pm

Just to clear some things up:

"Personal days" are a contractual allotment of 2 trips per year that AA FAs can call out for any reason without being penalized.

In the US, federal law does not generally protect a worker's right to miss work due to injury or illness. There is something called the "Family Medical Leave Act", or FMLA that allows qualified employees (1 continuous year of employment at a company with at least 50 employees within 75 miles, 1250 hours worked in the previous 12 months) to take up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave for any number of medical conditions or to take care of a family member with said conditions. Certain states have better rules, but they mostly do not apply to those with a CBA.

A similar points system is already used at all hourly paid workgroups at American, except for pilots and FAs.
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jayunited
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:28 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Any what if your actually sick during those periods? Good luck getting this last any Union.


This policy is designed to weed out those who abuse the system.
Outside of an extraordinary emergency there is no excuse for a no call no show. About 8 years ago I was in a terrible accident on my way to work had to be taken to the hospital in an ambulance in the midst of all of the chaos I have no idea what happened to my cell phone. However when my family and friends arrived at the hospital even though I was in tremendous pain I still asked one of them to call United Airlines operations at O'Hare and let them know I'm not coming to work. Most companies have little tolerance for no call no shows because it has a big impact on the operation. A simple phone call can be the difference between a flight leaving on time and a flight taking a delay, the airline shouldn't find out when its time to board that a FA no call no show.

United has a similar 12 month rolling point system. At UA you can call in sick up to 3 days and return to work without a doctors note only be charged 1 point. Anything over 3 days requires a doctors note to return to work however you are still only charged 1 point. I will assume the policy change is somewhat similar at AA. So think about it AA gives you 10 points in a rolling 12 month period if you get fired for calling in sick you are clearly abusing the system. If you have a chronic illness then you and your doctor should fill out the required paperwork for FMLA. But as we all know in order to qualify for FMLA you need to have worked a minimum of 1,250 hours during the previous year.

If you are truly sick during the holidays then do the responsible thing and call in sick. If you haven't been abusing your sick time during the 12 month rolling time period this shouldn't be a problem. It becomes a problem when you've called in sick to go to the beach, a BBQ, a party, or you woke up that morning a d decided I don't feel like going to work today. If you abuse the sick time you are going to have a problem when the day comes that you are actually sick if you don't abuse the sick time this policy change shouldn't effect you.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:30 pm

B6 is actually being sued by the city of NY for this policy being used against FAs and Pilots in NY.

Long story short, we are in a different day and age...if you do business in a blue state, these policies arent legal and arent enforcable. Neither is anything about appearance beyond neat and clean.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:35 pm

http://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailynews.com/new-york/jet-blue-hit-suit-violating-new-york-paid-sick-leave-law-article-1.3016062%3FoutputType%3Damp
 
Aausfa
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:35 pm

What they are also doing is applying this retroactively to LUS f/as who had a more lenient policy, giving points to FAs that were follwing the old rules, not knowing this change was going to happen. Doctors note or not the sick call counts. Also they lowered the contractual 10 min grace period to 5 unilaterally. They are given a 10 min window if they are running late. It is cut to 5 without a change in the contact's wording or a side letter with the union.
 
Boof02671
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:39 pm

Delta is being sued also by NYS.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:39 pm

I work for a very large, well known company. We get no sick days or personal days. Any time off comes from one single bucket of leave hours.
 
ltbewr
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:50 pm

I wonder if part of this policy is to keep the unions, if applicable, in their place. Sometimes sick days policy is abused, like with 'sick outs' by disgruntled employees who have been working without a contract or in contested labor negotiations.

Many times in the USA sick days are not because the employee is sick, but their significant other, spouse, child or parent is sick and need to take care of them. You could also have at certain busy times major outbreaks of flu or colds that can occur. Some employers, like a past one I had, required if called in sick the day before or after a holiday, you needed a doctors note to limit abuses. I got screwed for that once and was disciplined with the loss of that day's pay. Some states and local jurisdictions (like NY City) have laws protecting the right of paid sick days.

As to 'personal days', these are often to allow flexibility for religious holy days by staff of the Jewish, Muslims, Hindu and other faiths who's highest holy days, like the Christian Easter and Christmas that occur at other times of the year. They can also be used for when persons have a need to take a day off to attend a child's graduation from school, travel to a wedding, a medical appointment, take care of family, legal or financial issues, maybe buying a house, moving, or just needing a 'mental health day' and cannot take a full vacation.

I would also note that the USA is far behind Europe in the length and use of paid vacation days by almost all employers. Many cannot use their full allocation they get every year and often it is 'use it or lose it'.

The reality is that businesses like airlines must have certain numbers of staffing at all times, there may not be enough backup, some cannot be called into work due to legal limits on hours worked in a week or month. Late sick calls can mean many $1000's in lost revenues, expenses and at critical times, impossible to serve their customers as no other flights to put them on. How to set reasonable ruled isn't easy and some will be unhappy with them and let's face it, many employers know employees are in a bad situation so cannot fight back, just have to follow the rules to keep their jobs.
 
Aausfa
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:52 pm

The problem with this is that these rules will also be applied retroactively to LUS. They had a more lenient policy and now will be punished for it. They will look at their sick calls from OCT 2017 until OCT 2018 and calculate their points with the new system. They also cut the grace period for late check in unilaterally. The contract says that the frace period if 10 minutes. However, the new policy states more than 5 min is late. More than 2 personal days were allowed only with manager approval.
 
ual763
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:57 pm

Scorpio wrote:
Wait, so it's actually LEGAL in the US to punish employees for being unable to come to work for a few days due to illness? That's outrageous!

Would the airline seriously rather the employee with, say the flu, still come in and infect half the plane??


It’s meant to penalize people that abuse the system. I’m sure that if an employee produces a valid doctor’s note if they called in sick during that period, that the airline wouldn’t penalize them.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
jayunited
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:57 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Lets say someone has a sick family member at home and needed to take some personal days to care for them. Now, within the same calendar year, they get legitimately sick but instead of calling in sick, they come in because they are afraid of being punished or fired. Now, that person who came in gets others sick and passengers sick. I hope AA applies common sense in situations that warrant it.

OTOH, lets say I am single, only care for myself and never have lateness or other issues with making it to work. This program will allow me to take every Christmas day and New Years Eve off without penalty.


Most companies have ways of dealing with these types of issues. If you have a sick family member and you need some personal time to take care of them you don't just call in sick and leave it at that. Here at UA employees should reach out to EAP (employee assistance program), this program has a lot of options that cover a wide range of territory and its designed to help employees through difficult time periods in their lives. But it is the employees responsibility to reach out to EAP for help however you don't reach out to EAP for help when you sitting in the office and they are asking you for your I.D. because at that point its to late.
It is similar to when UA instituted a zero tolerance drug/alcohol policy for all ground based employees. If an employee fails a drug test they can be fired the exception is UA will give an employee a chance if that employee had previously contacted EAP for help with drug and or alcohol abuse. But what you can't do is fail the drug or alcohol test and then tell United Airlines I have a drug problem or I'm a alcoholic and need EAP assistance. At that point its to late, you should have reach out to EAP before you failed the test because EAP will notate in your file that you are seeking help and treatment and it shows UA you are at the very least trying to get your life together. UA will work with you and EAP at this point and you won't loose you job. I know employees who been given 3-4 chances before UA let them go and in many of those cases the rumors were the person/s wasn't actually working the program they weren't showing up for classes or meetings. On the flip side there are people who use these programs to their benefit and have gotten their lives back on track and are still employed with UA.

Most employers understand in life sometimes sh*t happens but it is the employees responsibility to reach out for help before the situation get to the point that your job is now on the line. Ten points in a 12 month rolling period gives an employee plenty of time to reach out for help.
 
Theseus
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:06 pm

chonetsao wrote:
I assume calling sick means when you feel down or unwell for no particular reason or reasons that is could not be medically determined.

Sick Leave means a doctor certify you being sick and need rest.


Thanks, it makes more sense then!
 
Dominion301
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:12 pm

Samrnpage wrote:
In what way is that cruel or disastrous? Fairly standard that.


What if you’re legitimately sick during any of the above periods? How is it fair to be punished for being sick? Come in to work to avoid “punishment” and make your colleagues sick? How is that possibly effective or efficient?

Would you like being a passenger that gets sick thanks to something like this?

In many countries, a policy like that would violate labour laws.

There’s gotta be more details than this to the policy than this. The thing is even if a doctor’s note exempts you from punishment, you’re in turn making the medical system more inefficient.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:33 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
I work for a very large, well known company. We get no sick days or personal days. Any time off comes from one single bucket of leave hours.

Unfortunately, this is how it is in many large companies in the US. As a consequence, people come to work sick. I imagine airline are different though.
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Blimpie
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:04 pm

Sounds more generous than what I get after 35 years with Gannet.
Now get the hell off of my lawn your dang kids!
 
Maverick623
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:44 pm

Blimpie wrote:
Sounds more generous than what I get after 35 years with Gannet.


I don't get this argument. Just because you chose to stay with an employer with crappy rules, in a state with crappy laws, and didn't fight to make it better (or maybe you did and lost), doesn't mean everyone else should just roll over and take it.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
CobaltScar
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:21 pm

How often do you flyers catch a cold after travel? Its very common. Now imagine your job puts you in those dirty planes with hundreds of strangers every day, picking up their cups and trash and in some cases even cleaning the plane after each leg (hello jetblue). So don't compare your desk job's sick policy to one from a airline.

Second, what was AA's policy before? Just a simple meeting with a supervisor and a letter in a file? Thats really worse because it lead to favoritism and unequal punishment for same scenarios. A cut and dry point system is best , within reason. The AA point system does not seem generous enough for this kind of work though.

As someone else mentioned huge states like California and New York have state laws that invalidate a lot of these points systems the airlines are using, airlines need to draw up their system with these huge states in mind. Its absolutely not fair that one employee based in California has a much more lineint sick time policy than another from the same airline based in Texas.

So the problem I see with this is its retroactive, and its set up to be illegal in a number of huge states from day 1.
 
mm320cap
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:27 pm

I can’t count the number of times I’ve flown with flight attendants who are sick because they are scared of being disciplined. It’s not like a normal job. Get a cold? You’re out for a week because you can’t clear your ears. Trapped in a tight aluminum tube for hours on end with recycled air doesn’t exactly make for the healthiest environment. Never mind that sometimes in like “things happen”. I’ve been on the way out the door for a 4 day trip and found water streaming through my ceiling. That’s why airlines carry reserve flight attendants and pilots.

Trust me, flight attendants run scared of the discipline that hangs over there heads. I don’t blame them. Consequently many of them show up for work when they really shouldn’t. And then hand you food and beverages. Think about that as you all suggest they should just “tough it out”. No wonder our flu seasons have become such epic nightmares.
 
NYCAAer
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:36 pm

airtran737 wrote:
Maybe this will weed out some of the geriatric mommas who abuse the system.


29-years of service AA Purser here- believe it or not, it isn’t the senior F/As who are abusing the system, it’s the junior F/As with 3 years seniority or less. I fly international and when I see junior F/As on my crew list, I know that I have a 50/50 chance that they’ll actually show up for the trip. I always have to call crew schedule/management during boarding which is a very busy time for me, to get a standby to take the no-show junior F/A’s place. Another thing that I’ve been dealing with is that the junior F/As sign in for their trip ON TIME, but they don’t actually get onboard the aircraft until we’ve started Group 2 boarding, so we don’t know where they are. At least when I see I have the old battle axes in the crew, I can count on them to be on time. I should be taking care of my first/business class passengers during boarding and shouldn’t be on my phone instead calling the company to find out about the whereabouts of missing crew. And at 29 years, I’m considered “middle seniority,” which is ridiculous, but that’s another issue.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:39 pm

So can FAs get credit for covering for the airline when called on short notice? Most workers are willing to give a hand when the company is hard pressed, but expect reciprocity.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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longhauler
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:53 pm

NYCAAer wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
Maybe this will weed out some of the geriatric mommas who abuse the system.


29-years of service AA Purser here- believe it or not, it isn’t the senior F/As who are abusing the system, it’s the junior F/As with 3 years seniority or less.And at 29 years, I’m considered “middle seniority,” which is ridiculous, but that’s another issue.

I have noticed the same thing. There is a sense of entitlement among the younger generation that is hard to overlook sometimes. So I would guess you are 100% correct that this policy is aimed at younger and not older Flight Attendants.

Recently when briefing the Flight Attendants before boarding I noticed one young woman texting and reading her phone. When, during the safety review, I commented "you may want to be a part of this conversation", she huffed, sighed heavily, rolled her eyes and said, "your just lucky I'm here at all". I said to the Service Director (our Purser), "did you hear that, we're lucky she's here at all"

Good luck dealing with that! I'll take a crew of seasoned, experienced Flight Attendants any day.

And yeah ... where I fly, 29 years gets you middle of the pack! :D
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
jetmatt777
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:54 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
So can FAs get credit for covering for the airline when called on short notice? Most workers are willing to give a hand when the company is hard pressed, but expect reciprocity.

The beatings will be fewer and slightly longer between.

I’ve noticed the airlines never reward anyone stepping up to the plate or going the extra mile; but they always seem to notice when you make a mistake.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
soflaflyer
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:55 pm

airtran737 wrote:
Maybe this will weed out some of the geriatric mommas who abuse the system.


That's a pretty ageist comment. "Abuse of the system" has nothing to do with age and has everything to do with character.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 7763
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:19 pm

Back when I was dating an FA in the mid-80s, at her airline you were terminated on the first offense for no-showing/missing a flight. This meant that people arrived early to where they were supposed to be. I assume that there were exceptions made in exceptional circumstances, but "there was traffic" wasn't an excuse. I did not realize that American previously tried to operate an airline without severe penalties for late/no-show.

Interesting that what is considered "cruel" today was standard not that long ago.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3303
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:28 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
http://www.google.com/amp/www.nydailynews.com/new-york/jet-blue-hit-suit-violating-new-york-paid-sick-leave-law-article-1.3016062%3FoutputType%3Damp


BTW,

all indications are that NYC is going to lose this lawsuit, at least for the cabin and cockpit crews. NYC does not have any jurisdiction in the air or on layovers.
The city stands a much better chance with the ground staff.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1626
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:31 pm

It’s for the NY based crew. DL and B6 both have crew bases there.

Don’t let the facts get in your way.

If you are based in NY you pay state and city tax.

The law covers them, the airlines will lose.

The law applies to non-union, as unionized workers use their CBA negotiated sick time, unless the law is better.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 17684
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:12 pm

Samrnpage wrote:
In what way is that cruel or disastrous? Fairly standard that.


It is better than what most Americans work under.

smokeybandit wrote:
I work for a very large, well known company. We get no sick days or personal days. Any time off comes from one single bucket of leave hours.

That is becoming the standard. :( You have to bank time in case you get sick.

32andBelow wrote:
Any what if your actually sick during those periods? Good luck getting this last any Union.

For those who haven't abused the system, they are OK.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: New Rule for AA FA's deemed "cruel" and "disastrous"

Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:15 pm

longhauler wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
Maybe this will weed out some of the geriatric mommas who abuse the system.


29-years of service AA Purser here- believe it or not, it isn’t the senior F/As who are abusing the system, it’s the junior F/As with 3 years seniority or less.And at 29 years, I’m considered “middle seniority,” which is ridiculous, but that’s another issue.

I have noticed the same thing. There is a sense of entitlement among the younger generation that is hard to overlook sometimes. So I would guess you are 100% correct that this policy is aimed at younger and not older Flight Attendants.

Recently when briefing the Flight Attendants before boarding I noticed one young woman texting and reading her phone. When, during the safety review, I commented "you may want to be a part of this conversation", she huffed, sighed heavily, rolled her eyes and said, "your just lucky I'm here at all". I said to the Service Director (our Purser), "did you hear that, we're lucky she's here at all"

Good luck dealing with that! I'll take a crew of seasoned, experienced Flight Attendants any day.

And yeah ... where I fly, 29 years gets you middle of the pack! :D

80 percent of the new kids are entitled. When you get a worker, you keep that person. What the heck happened to teaching a work ethic?

You need a crew to fly.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.

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