jhsusman
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United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:01 pm

Apparently Scott Kirby said today that they hope to announce another European destination in the near future (besides the seasonal LHR service).

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/1031951198029598721

So what city do people think? Paris?

Not sure if he is talking about the expected Aer Lingus Dublin codeshare that is rumored to be announced soon. . .
 
Freshside3
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:05 pm

Wouldn't surprise me if it was EI/DUB...….UA had been putting out a number of press releases, of sorts, saying that "we" have new service. Most of the time it is about Express, which is understandable(to an extent)......but they also had one about the NZ service from AKL to ORD. A number of UA employees were a bit miffed about the NZ announcement, saying it was a bit misleading.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:13 pm

Could be return of seasonal FRA service. Otherwise say its Paris as there is incentive money that could be used for that.
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gatibosgru
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:14 pm

First guess would be FRA and then CDG
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Noise
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:17 pm

I would say FRA due to Star Alliance hub, followed by MUC and then CDG.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:21 pm

I'd say CDG is up next, only service on it currently is DY. I'm surprised AF isn't there already.
 
mcg
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:22 pm

I can't imagine why UA would want to compete with LH to FRA. I'd say it's Paris
 
jhsusman
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:22 pm

Already have LH flights to FRA (747-400) and MUC (A350) so I am not sure this makes sense although they regularly go out full. . .

I still think CDG or possibly AMS. . .
 
stratacruiser
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:23 pm

LH already has FRA covered - with UA codesharing - so MUC seems more likely.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:23 pm

UA doesnt even fly IAH-CDG which is a much larger local market with a large J component.

I would guess FRA because UA and LH DONT compete on that market. They cant. They have a JV.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
Skyblue39
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:26 pm

Aer Lingus are expected to announce Dublin - Denver to feed into UA network at DEN
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:30 pm

mcg wrote:
I can't imagine why UA would want to compete with LH to FRA. I'd say it's Paris


They have a JV with revenue sharing. It’s possible they could stimulate more demand to FRA and onward.
 
mcg
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:34 pm

Perhaps ZRH, good connections with LX and I'd think reasonable O and D traffic. I wonder how Edelweiss has done this summer.
 
Judge1310
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:38 pm

As someone who was present at Scott Kirby's presentation, I can say that he and the VP of Network stated that United, itself, will be operating another European city from DEN. Other routes around the network to be released at the appropriate time...
 
ScottB
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:45 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA doesnt even fly IAH-CDG which is a much larger local market with a large J component.


AF captures most of the IAH-CDG premium market (for good reason) and they have connecting service to many key oil industry markets available through CDG. UA can fill the back of the plane in season but I expect AF was eating their lunch. KLM flies with its own metal to IAH for the same reason.
 
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:06 pm

ScottB wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
UA doesnt even fly IAH-CDG which is a much larger local market with a large J component.


AF captures most of the IAH-CDG premium market (for good reason) and they have connecting service to many key oil industry markets available through CDG. UA can fill the back of the plane in season but I expect AF was eating their lunch. KLM flies with its own metal to IAH for the same reason.


UA and KL fly IAH-AMS because there is just so much premium traffic in the market. More so than IAH-CDG.

However, the reason AF makes IAH-CDG work is because they have the Schlumberger contract. Even without that, IAH-CDG generates more traffic than DEN-CDG could.

This has to be a connection to a Star Alliance hub.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
msycajun
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:07 pm

Wouldn't UA and EI be barred from sharing information or colluding on potential routes without antitrust immunity?
 
trexel94
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:22 pm

mcg wrote:
Perhaps ZRH, good connections with LX and I'd think reasonable O and D traffic. I wonder how Edelweiss has done this summer.


Edelweiss has done well so far with next year's schedule extended to May but I don't think the route is big enough for two carriers when it's currently seasonal with only two weekly flights.
 
trexel94
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:33 pm

I hope its a new route/new market and not an additional flight on an existing route. AMS would be a nice addition as its a large hole in the Euro network but knowing UA's history at DEN it will most likely be a German route. LH has been printing money with its Denver flights.

Im still waiting for the fabled Aer Lingus announcement.
 
GSP psgr
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:51 pm

Most Likely If A Star Hub: ZRH
Dark Horse Star Hub: BRU
Most Likely Stand Alone: CDG
Dark Horse Stand Alone: KEF
 
mcg
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:57 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
Most Likely If A Star Hub: ZRH
Dark Horse Star Hub: BRU
Most Likely Stand Alone: CDG
Dark Horse Stand Alone: KEF


Strangely enough CDG could generate connecting traffic to all the places Star partners fly to from Paris, e.g. BRU, ZRH, VIE and all the cities in Germany LH serves from Paris.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:05 pm

Wagers on UA DEN-CPH Star Alliance hub anyone?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
mcg
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:33 pm

stratacruiser wrote:
LH already has FRA covered - with UA codesharing - so MUC seems more likely.


LH flies DEN - MUC.
 
jayunited
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:18 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Wagers on UA DEN-CPH Star Alliance hub anyone?


Chances of this happening is 0%.
Like others have stated there is a higher degree of probability that it will be either FRA or MUC, if not for sure CDG.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:48 am

Skyblue39 wrote:
Aer Lingus are expected to announce Dublin - Denver to feed into UA network at DEN.

Freshside3 wrote:
Wouldn't surprise me if it was EI/DUB.

jhsusman wrote:
Not sure if he is talking about the expected Aer Lingus Dublin codeshare that is rumored to be announced soon.

Isn't EI likely to be joining the BA / IB / AA TT JV, which will lead to EI and UA going their own ways? Therefore, I'm not sure Kirby would be pinning his DEN - Europe announcement on UA codesharing on EI to DUB, given that that codesharing could be gone very soon?

Cheers,

C.
 
mcg
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:14 am

So when will this new route be announced? I'm interested from a travel planning point of view.
 
727200
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:24 am

EDI has a snowball's chance of being the new route. Realistically does anyone outside of the green shamrock, really think UA will devote a plane to this destination year round and especially from DEN? East coast yes, but as you head west, the number's of leprechauns get smaller.

1) FRA
2) CDG
Last edited by 727200 on Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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neomax
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:30 am

I want to say FRA but I'm leaning towards CDG as LH already does DEN while CDG is a hole not filled by AF, only DY and thus CDG would benefit DEN based UA FF and local companies that prefer UA over DY. FRA would be redundant as it is metal neutral for UA/Star unless it needs the extra capacity.
Last edited by neomax on Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
Judge1310
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:32 am

mcg wrote:
So when will this new route be announced? I'm interested from a travel planning point of view.



You'll be fine. It will be very soon... 8-)
 
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intotheair
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:13 am

As much as I'd love to see something more interesting like CDG or AMS, even as a DEN homer, I feel like FRA, MUC, or ZRH on a 788 are much more likely.

TATL destinations on UA metal:
DEN: LHR (seasonal)
SFO: FRA, LHR, MUC (seasonal), CDG, TLV, ZRH (seasonal)
IAH: AMS, FRA, LHR, MUC
LAX: LHR

I doubt we'd get anything the other hubs west of the Mississippi don't already have, and SFO-CDG and IAH-AMS feel like they work because of circumstances that are completely different than what would need to happen for DEN-CDG/AMS to work.

DEN-LHR year-round on UA metal would be really nice and probably viable, but the issue has always been the LHR slot situation.

planemanofnz wrote:
Isn't EI likely to be joining the BA / IB / AA TT JV, which will lead to EI and UA going their own ways? Therefore, I'm not sure Kirby would be pinning his DEN - Europe announcement on UA codesharing on EI to DUB, given that that codesharing could be gone very soon?


I'd need some more time to look it up, but from what I remember reading fairly recently, IAG doesn't have plans to bring EI into oneworld and even wants to keep the UA-EI codeshare going because it's been ongoing for more than a decade and because it works so well for them. Maybe Willie Walsh said this in an interview? I could be wrong, but it's been a while since IAG has owned EI, and they haven't made any steps to get EI to join oneworld or to terminate the UA relationship.

It is only a codeshare, so UA and EI couldn't legally coordinate to launch DEN-DUB, and if what Judge1310 is correct, this new route would be on UA metal. With that said, I could see DEN-DUB on EI happen independent of what UA does.
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mcg
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:09 pm

[photoid][/photoid]
Judge1310 wrote:
mcg wrote:
So when will this new route be announced? I'm interested from a travel planning point of view.



You'll be fine. It will be very soon... 8-)


Thanks your honor!
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:11 pm

Id honestly be surprised if it wasnt FRA.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
mcg
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:22 pm

I'd actually be very surprised if it was FRA. It makes no sense to me to go head-to-head with JV and alliance partner. It doesn't seem likely there are 200 additional FRA passengers each day who just can't make LH work. One of the other Star Alliance hubs makes much more sense.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:26 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Id honestly be surprised if it wasnt FRA.

FRA makes the most sense, but Im also kinda thinking Amsterdam because theyd have it all to themselves.
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Andy33
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:29 pm

727200 wrote:
EDI has a snowball's chance of being the new route. Realistically does anyone outside of the green shamrock, really think UA will devote a plane to this destination year round and especially from DEN? East coast yes, but as you head west, the number's of leprechauns get smaller.

1) FRA
2) CDG


Green shamrock, EDI? What's the connection? Last time I was there Edinburgh was in Scotland, not Ireland.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:32 pm

msycajun wrote:
Wouldn't UA and EI be barred from sharing information or colluding on potential routes without antitrust immunity?


Yes, they would.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:38 pm

intotheair wrote:
As much as I'd love to see something more interesting like CDG or AMS, even as a DEN homer, I feel like FRA, MUC, or ZRH on a 788 are much more likely.

TATL destinations on UA metal:
DEN: LHR (seasonal)
SFO: FRA, LHR, MUC (seasonal), CDG, TLV, ZRH (seasonal)
IAH: AMS, FRA, LHR, MUC
LAX: LHR

I doubt we'd get anything the other hubs west of the Mississippi don't already have, and SFO-CDG and IAH-AMS feel like they work because of circumstances that are completely different than what would need to happen for DEN-CDG/AMS to work.

DEN-LHR year-round on UA metal would be really nice and probably viable, but the issue has always been the LHR slot situation.

If DEN-LHR year-around would have LHR slot issues, given DEN-LON O/D would UA year-around DEN-LGW or DEN-STN (!) even be viable?
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jasoncrh
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:43 pm

Frankfurt is LH's largest hub with multiple banks throughout the day, many with unique destinations separate and apart from the other banks. It is LH's most profitable hub. Adding a UA - operated flight that feeds into another bank at FRA is probably the least risky yet most profitable decision that UA could make out of DEN with regards to European flying. They wouldnt be going "head to head" ith LH, they'd be complementing LH.

quote="mcg"]I'd actually be very surprised if it was FRA. It makes no sense to me to go head-to-head with JV and alliance partner. It doesn't seem likely there are 200 additional FRA passengers each day who just can't make LH work. One of the other Star Alliance hubs makes much more sense.[/quote]
 
airbazar
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:47 pm

mcg wrote:
I can't imagine why UA would want to compete with LH to FRA. I'd say it's Paris

They don't really compete. They complement eachother. You see this happening already in other routes.
UA tends to have lower TATL fares than LH so they attract a different sort of customer.
My guess is 1) FRA 2) CDG, both seasonal.
 
Skyblue39
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:54 pm

727200 wrote:
EDI has a snowball's chance of being the new route. Realistically does anyone outside of the green shamrock, really think UA will devote a plane to this destination year round and especially from DEN? East coast yes, but as you head west, the number's of leprechauns get smaller.

1) FRA
2) CDG


Geography is clearly not a strong point for you.
Edinburgh is not in Ireland it is in Scotland ....
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:56 pm

mcg wrote:
I'd actually be very surprised if it was FRA. It makes no sense to me to go head-to-head with JV and alliance partner. It doesn't seem likely there are 200 additional FRA passengers each day who just can't make LH work. One of the other Star Alliance hubs makes much more sense.


This statement has been repeated and it needs to be corrected. There is no "going head to head" with LH. They are metal neutral. It doesnt matter who operates the flight, UA and LH split the profit.

Thats why it probably is FRA.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:59 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
Id honestly be surprised if it wasnt FRA.

FRA makes the most sense, but Im also kinda thinking Amsterdam because theyd have it all to themselves.


Theyd still have FRA all to themselves because UA and LH are metal neutral. DEN-AMS is a tiny local market. Outside of DL hubs and cities KL can serve with connecting traffic, AMS is a very tricky market. Really only NYC, LA, Houston, DC, and San Francisco generate enough in the way of high O&D fares and have the traffic to make it work without being a JV hub.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
United1
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:03 pm

airbazar wrote:
mcg wrote:
I can't imagine why UA would want to compete with LH to FRA. I'd say it's Paris

They don't really compete. They complement eachother. You see this happening already in other routes.
UA tends to have lower TATL fares than LH so they attract a different sort of customer.
My guess is 1) FRA 2) CDG, both seasonal.


This isn't aimed at you but simply as a reminder to everyone on this thread that UA and LH do not compete with eachother....they operate a Joint Venture called Atlantic++

net net: LH Group (LH, LX, OS and SN,) AC and UA operate as a single carrier over the Atlantic. Much like BA/AA or DL/AF/KL A++ coordinates pricing, schedules, pool revenue, share costs and split profits...

If UA launches DEN-FRA it's because A++ is spilling traffic on the route and they feel they can capture more of it by adding capacity. UA doesn't care whether you are on UA, AC or LH metal over the pond as they get a share of the revenue/profit and visa versa is true.
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OA412
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:27 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Id honestly be surprised if it wasnt FRA.

Same here. I'm not sure that MUC can support more than one daily DEN flight, and the other routes being speculated just don't make any sense to me. If there is going to be an AMS or CDG announcement, I really think it's going to be a Skyteam carrier. I really can't imagine that ZRH has all that much O/D to DEN. Ditto CPH. To me, all signs point to FRA.
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intotheair
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:00 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
If DEN-LHR year-around would have LHR slot issues, given DEN-LON O/D would UA year-around DEN-LGW or DEN-STN (!) even be viable?


UA isn't going to open up an operation at LGW or STN just so it can serve DEN-LON year round.
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jhsusman
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:12 pm

Sounds like Denver airport thinks it will be another Frankfurt flight:

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/1032305251418812416
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:17 pm

jhsusman wrote:
Sounds like Denver airport thinks it will be another Frankfurt flight:

[url][https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/1032305251418812416/url]


Makes perfect sense. It just means that LH doesnt have enough capacity at DEN currently and passengers are spilling over.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
jetmatt777
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:38 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
jhsusman wrote:
Sounds like Denver airport thinks it will be another Frankfurt flight:

[url][https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/1032305251418812416/url]


Makes perfect sense. It just means that LH doesnt have enough capacity at DEN currently and passengers are spilling over.


The amount of UA connections to LH on both the FRA and MUC flights are staggering. It wouldn’t surprise me if this is a seasonal flight to supplement LH during the peak periods.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
727200
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:46 pm

Skyblue39 wrote:
727200 wrote:
EDI has a snowball's chance of being the new route. Realistically does anyone outside of the green shamrock, really think UA will devote a plane to this destination year round and especially from DEN? East coast yes, but as you head west, the number's of leprechauns get smaller.

1) FRA
2) CDG


Geography is clearly not a strong point for you.
Edinburgh is not in Ireland it is in Scotland ....



Sorry, I obviously wasn't thinking.

Had just come off the SIN-LAX trip...BRUTAL!
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:03 pm

Id think FRA would be the only place they could get the feed perhaps in coordination with a lh downguage (since they're dumping the 744s anyway) they could make it work with a 788

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