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Coalways wrote:Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month
AVENSAB727 wrote:Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.
AVENSAB727 wrote:Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.
JayBCNLON wrote:AVENSAB727 wrote:Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.
You mean bare foot ? Or bear fruit ?
AVENSAB727 wrote:Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.
Freshside3 wrote:AVENSAB727 wrote:Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.
ORD will have a difficult time, though. AA's service to ATH came surprisingly quick. Despite the fact that frequent flyers and employees alike have suggested that UA do ORD-ATH, for quite a while, UA's management was tone-deaf about it, and essentially dismissed it as a joke. Not sure what else UA can do at ORD, to counter this.
But certainly hope that common sense will prevail on other fronts, and looking forward to more international trips at DEN, IAH and EWR.
Coalways wrote:Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month
fun2fly wrote:UA moves a lot of people to/through BRU also. Might be the dark horse as some suggest, but seems like the boring FRA will win again...
airfrnt wrote:... I'm surprised that LH hasn't upguaged it yet ...
airzim wrote:Coalways wrote:Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month
I'm going to speculate EWR-JNB, but not sure if they have the right equipment. Seems like with a weak SA, and DL having the remaining market to themselves, it's a viable option.
Maybe also re-enter the EWR-GIG/SCL nonstop market?
tpaewr wrote:airzim wrote:Coalways wrote:Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month
I'm going to speculate EWR-JNB, but not sure if they have the right equipment. Seems like with a weak SA, and DL having the remaining market to themselves, it's a viable option.
Maybe also re-enter the EWR-GIG/SCL nonstop market?
When CO ordered the 787 BLR & JNB were both tipped as earlier possibilities. But that was ages ago under Larry, who saw the 2000s build up to Europe and India.
Even earlier in the 90s CO beliefly had a codeshare with World to operate an M11 EWR-DKK-JNB. So it is not with out some history.
Judge1310 wrote:Freshside3 wrote:AVENSAB727 wrote:Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.
ORD will have a difficult time, though. AA's service to ATH came surprisingly quick. Despite the fact that frequent flyers and employees alike have suggested that UA do ORD-ATH, for quite a while, UA's management was tone-deaf about it, and essentially dismissed it as a joke. Not sure what else UA can do at ORD, to counter this.
But certainly hope that common sense will prevail on other fronts, and looking forward to more international trips at DEN, IAH and EWR.
I will respectfully disagree with this premise. Directly from the mouth of the VP of Network at UA, the airline will no longer sit back and cede market share to competitors. The old UA (under the one who shall not be named...Smi...!) operated under the notion of maintaining the status quo to appease Wall Street. The current UA already displayed the massive shift in mentality earlier this year with the lofty goals that initially spooked investors but now have them lauding the direction the airline is taking. Expect a continuation of aggressive, some unconventional (SFO-PPT, anyone?), and well-thought out destinations/routes.
However, just because ORD-ATH was announced by AA that doesn't mean that UA needs to "rush" into it as well. Should logistics work to operate the route then great! Let us not forget, though, that with AA drawing down other long-haul routes, they're just back filling the space with another route -- whereas UA has been upgauging and reapportioning flights when possible as they're very near to maxing out on space.
TL;DR: Adding flights does not a competitor make if other routes are being axed. Success in Network Planning and Logistics requires a massively holistic view, NOT tit-for-tat.
ikolkyo wrote:I'd say CDG is up next, only service on it currently is DY. I'm surprised AF isn't there already.
Freshside3 wrote:Judge1310 wrote:IFreshside3 wrote:ORD will have a difficult time, though. AA's service to ATH came surprisingly quick. Despite the fact that frequent flyers and employees alike have suggested that UA do ORD-ATH, for quite a while, UA's management was tone-deaf about it, and essentially dismissed it as a joke. Not sure what else UA can do at ORD, to counter this.
But certainly hope that common sense will prevail on other fronts, and looking forward to more international trips at DEN, IAH and EWR.
I will respectfully disagree with this premise. Directly from the mouth of the VP of Network at UA, the airline will no longer sit back and cede market share to competitors. The old UA (under the one who shall not be named...Smi...!) operated under the notion of maintaining the status quo to appease Wall Street. The current UA already displayed the massive shift in mentality earlier this year with the lofty goals that initially spooked investors but now have them lauding the direction the airline is taking. Expect a continuation of aggressive, some unconventional (SFO-PPT, anyone?), and well-thought out destinations/routes.
However, just because ORD-ATH was announced by AA that doesn't mean that UA needs to "rush" into it as well. Should logistics work to operate the route then great! Let us not forget, though, that with AA drawing down other long-haul routes, they're just back filling the space with another route -- whereas UA has been upgauging and reapportioning flights when possible as they're very near to maxing out on space.
TL;DR: Adding flights does not a competitor make if other routes are being axed. Success in Network Planning and Logistics requires a massively holistic view, NOT tit-for-tat.
I wasn't suggesting "tit-for-tat", as far as ORD-ATH goes. That would be a disaster, to saturate the market, and ending up under-price it.
Perhaps I had phrased it wrong. What I meant by "countering" it, is to add a flight that would be an incentive to switch loyalties. Which is especially critical in ORD, where the market share between UA and AA is fairly close. Plus the fact that AA is already getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight.
ORD-TLV would be the logical choice, since nobody is flying from a central part of the USA to Israel. However, having IAD-TLV coming up next year, may work against the idea. An Eastern European destination, such as PRG , etc. might work. But I'm not optimistic that UA understands this part of the world, either. They had ATH totally wrong; it would be ludicrous to believe that UA would properly assess any other secondary European markets, either.
Needless to say, picking an appropriate new international route for ORD will be tricky, any way you slice it.
But a successful international trip, of some sort, in DEN, would be a better opportunity for UA.
Freshside3 wrote:ikolkyo wrote:I'd say CDG is up next, only service on it currently is DY. I'm surprised AF isn't there already.
I am, too. Many of the people in the French film industry, own vacation homes in Colorado. And for that type of clientele, DY is not the airline for them, due the lack of a true premium cabin.
jhsusman wrote:Apparently Scott Kirby said today that they hope to announce another European destination in the near future (besides the seasonal LHR service).
https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/1031951198029598721
So what city do people think? Paris?
Not sure if he is talking about the expected Aer Lingus Dublin codeshare that is rumored to be announced soon. . .
Judge1310 wrote:Freshside3 wrote:Judge1310 wrote:I
I will respectfully disagree with this premise. Directly from the mouth of the VP of Network at UA, the airline will no longer sit back and cede market share to competitors. The old UA (under the one who shall not be named...Smi...!) operated under the notion of maintaining the status quo to appease Wall Street. The current UA already displayed the massive shift in mentality earlier this year with the lofty goals that initially spooked investors but now have them lauding the direction the airline is taking. Expect a continuation of aggressive, some unconventional (SFO-PPT, anyone?), and well-thought out destinations/routes.
However, just because ORD-ATH was announced by AA that doesn't mean that UA needs to "rush" into it as well. Should logistics work to operate the route then great! Let us not forget, though, that with AA drawing down other long-haul routes, they're just back filling the space with another route -- whereas UA has been upgauging and reapportioning flights when possible as they're very near to maxing out on space.
TL;DR: Adding flights does not a competitor make if other routes are being axed. Success in Network Planning and Logistics requires a massively holistic view, NOT tit-for-tat.
I wasn't suggesting "tit-for-tat", as far as ORD-ATH goes. That would be a disaster, to saturate the market, and ending up under-price it.
Perhaps I had phrased it wrong. What I meant by "countering" it, is to add a flight that would be an incentive to switch loyalties. Which is especially critical in ORD, where the market share between UA and AA is fairly close. Plus the fact that AA is already getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight.
ORD-TLV would be the logical choice, since nobody is flying from a central part of the USA to Israel. However, having IAD-TLV coming up next year, may work against the idea. An Eastern European destination, such as PRG , etc. might work. But I'm not optimistic that UA understands this part of the world, either. They had ATH totally wrong; it would be ludicrous to believe that UA would properly assess any other secondary European markets, either.
Needless to say, picking an appropriate new international route for ORD will be tricky, any way you slice it.
But a successful international trip, of some sort, in DEN, would be a better opportunity for UA.
Very good points indeed! But let's not get ahead of ourselves here, hehe. Seasonal flights don't really "draw" pax away from competitors -- they merely give local pax a direct option that they didn't have before...if the price is right, though. From where did you get the idea that AA is "...getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight." when it's barely been three days since the announcement?
Although I know that there are people who fly UA to EWR to continue to ATH, this would also take away AA folks going to PHL on to ATH. This would also affect (marginally, however) the European carriers -- if the price isn't competitive.
Regarding secondary Euro markets, there is a whole lot more to just finding a plane and flying a route.
Freshside3 wrote:Judge1310 wrote:Freshside3 wrote:I
I wasn't suggesting "tit-for-tat", as far as ORD-ATH goes. That would be a disaster, to saturate the market, and ending up under-price it.
Perhaps I had phrased it wrong. What I meant by "countering" it, is to add a flight that would be an incentive to switch loyalties. Which is especially critical in ORD, where the market share between UA and AA is fairly close. Plus the fact that AA is already getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight.
ORD-TLV would be the logical choice, since nobody is flying from a central part of the USA to Israel. However, having IAD-TLV coming up next year, may work against the idea. An Eastern European destination, such as PRG , etc. might work. But I'm not optimistic that UA understands this part of the world, either. They had ATH totally wrong; it would be ludicrous to believe that UA would properly assess any other secondary European markets, either.
Needless to say, picking an appropriate new international route for ORD will be tricky, any way you slice it.
But a successful international trip, of some sort, in DEN, would be a better opportunity for UA.
Very good points indeed! But let's not get ahead of ourselves here, hehe. Seasonal flights don't really "draw" pax away from competitors -- they merely give local pax a direct option that they didn't have before...if the price is right, though. From where did you get the idea that AA is "...getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight." when it's barely been three days since the announcement?
Although I know that there are people who fly UA to EWR to continue to ATH, this would also take away AA folks going to PHL on to ATH. This would also affect (marginally, however) the European carriers -- if the price isn't competitive.
Regarding secondary Euro markets, there is a whole lot more to just finding a plane and flying a route.
Some people in Chicago's Greek community have already made public statements to that effect. Which is somewhat surprising, since the flight hasn't been flown yet.
Freshside3 wrote:Some people in Chicago's Greek community have alreadty made statements to that effect. Which is somewhat surprising, since the flight hasn't been flown yet.
727200 wrote:Sounds to me some Greek/AA fly boys have gotten ahead of themselves. The market is a summer route and that's all. Its full of cheapo fares going off to look at ruins. There are NO business travelers flying this route to make it worth while. Greece economy is the pits, with a massive debt load. And anyone with a shred of Jet-A in their veins, knows 3 days into the announcement, people are not lined up tearing up their UA Mileage Plus cards to become AA members.
ScottB wrote:but I expect AF was eating their lunch.
msycajun wrote:Wouldn't UA and EI be barred from sharing information or colluding on potential routes without antitrust immunity?
mcg wrote:I can't imagine why UA would want to compete with LH to FRA. I'd say it's Paris
Freshside3 wrote:I wasn't suggesting "tit-for-tat", as far as ORD-ATH goes. That would be a disaster, to saturate the market, and ending up under-price it.
Perhaps I had phrased it wrong. What I meant by "countering" it, is to add a flight that would be an incentive to switch loyalties. Which is especially critical in ORD, where the market share between UA and AA is fairly close. Plus the fact that AA is already getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight.
ORD-TLV would be the logical choice, since nobody is flying from a central part of the USA to Israel. However, having IAD-TLV coming up next year, may work against the idea. An Eastern European destination, such as PRG , etc. might work. But I'm not optimistic that UA understands this part of the world, either. They had ATH totally wrong; it would be ludicrous to believe that UA would properly assess any other secondary European markets, either.
Needless to say, picking an appropriate new international route for ORD will be tricky, any way you slice it.
But a successful international trip, of some sort, in DEN, would be a better opportunity for UA.
Judge1310 wrote:tpaewr wrote:airzim wrote:
I'm going to speculate EWR-JNB, but not sure if they have the right equipment. Seems like with a weak SA, and DL having the remaining market to themselves, it's a viable option.
Maybe also re-enter the EWR-GIG/SCL nonstop market?
When CO ordered the 787 BLR & JNB were both tipped as earlier possibilities. But that was ages ago under Larry, who saw the 2000s build up to Europe and India.
Even earlier in the 90s CO beliefly had a codeshare with World to operate an M11 EWR-DKK-JNB. So it is not with out some history.
According to those in know, the 787 could not reliably operate JNB in the summer west bound to the US for UA as it's just not the right equipment. DL uses a 777-200LR for this reason. Any viable route to JNB for UA would most likely be routed from IAD.
klwright69 wrote:I can't really add to what hasn't already been said. AMS or CDG sound good, but it's the wrong alliance hubbed. It's likely somewhere in Germany, maybe BRU.
fun2fly wrote:I was at DEN yesterday...great spotting: 788, 350, 748, 777, 789, and 752 on the international side.
UA moves a lot of people to/through BRU also. Might be the dark horse as some suggest, but seems like the boring FRA will win again...
Denver772 wrote:fun2fly wrote:I was at DEN yesterday...great spotting: 788, 350, 748, 777, 789, and 752 on the international side.
UA moves a lot of people to/through BRU also. Might be the dark horse as some suggest, but seems like the boring FRA will win again...
Who flies the 748 into DEN? I'm there quite often and can say I have never seen one. Also FR24 isn't showing any 748's into DEN this week. I would love to see this though if true.
AVENSAB727 wrote:Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination!
upgrademe2First wrote:BA 747 to Heathrow
LH 747 to Frankfurt
I think they are both 747-400s though
intotheair wrote:klwright69 wrote:I can't really add to what hasn't already been said. AMS or CDG sound good, but it's the wrong alliance hubbed. It's likely somewhere in Germany, maybe BRU.
As much as the Germans like annexing land and airlines, BRU is still in Belgium.
LAX772LR wrote:ScottB wrote:but I expect AF was eating their lunch.
That was CO's perpetual problem at IAH as well... they were dominated by just about every foreign competitor on every individual int'l route with competition.
UA doesn't seem to have solved that issue.msycajun wrote:Wouldn't UA and EI be barred from sharing information or colluding on potential routes without antitrust immunity?
PatrickZ80 wrote:upgrademe2First wrote:BA 747 to Heathrow
LH 747 to Frankfurt
I think they are both 747-400s though
Lufthansa could have used a 747-8 as a substitute, that wouldn't be the first time. That would also explain why it doesn't show on FlightRadar24. Plane is scheduled to be a 747-400 but last minute swapped for a 747-8.
STT757 wrote:Judge1310 wrote:tpaewr wrote:
When CO ordered the 787 BLR & JNB were both tipped as earlier possibilities. But that was ages ago under Larry, who saw the 2000s build up to Europe and India.
Even earlier in the 90s CO beliefly had a codeshare with World to operate an M11 EWR-DKK-JNB. So it is not with out some history.
According to those in know, the 787 could not reliably operate JNB in the summer west bound to the US for UA as it's just not the right equipment. DL uses a 777-200LR for this reason. Any viable route to JNB for UA would most likely be routed from IAD.
EWR-JNB is shorter than IAD-JNB.
TWA772LR wrote:PatrickZ80 wrote:upgrademe2First wrote:BA 747 to Heathrow
LH 747 to Frankfurt
I think they are both 747-400s though
Lufthansa could have used a 747-8 as a substitute, that wouldn't be the first time. That would also explain why it doesn't show on FlightRadar24. Plane is scheduled to be a 747-400 but last minute swapped for a 747-8.
Didnt LH use the -8 into DEN before they started MUC-DEN?
Coalways wrote:Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month
Coalways wrote:Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month
STT757 wrote:Coalways wrote:Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month
Two of these perhaps;
ICN, TPE, BGL, GIG, SCL
ual763 wrote:STT757 wrote:Coalways wrote:Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month
Two of these perhaps;
ICN, TPE, BGL, GIG, SCL
Jus tout of curiosity what is BGL? All I see for that is Baglung? Rio is SBGL, but then again the 3letter for that is GIG which you also list.
TWA772LR wrote:IAH-CDG did good during COs Skyteam days (for obvious reasons). But it still came to a shock for me and others when UA dumped it. Youd think there would be good feed from Latin America to CDG.