Coalways
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:54 pm

Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month
 
Judge1310
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:10 pm

Coalways wrote:
Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month


:thumbsup:

Or maybe there will be more...? 8-) :stirthepot:
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:21 pm

Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
jayunited
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:38 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.


IAH has gotten some love they have IAH-SYD and regularly schedules flights on 787s. Whereas ORD is patiently waiting for something anything besides additional domestic flights. I understand UA really wants to pull ahead domestically at ORD but a lot of people are asking when will UA at ORD add some new international long haul destinations.
 
JayBCNLON
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:53 am

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.


You mean bare foot ? Or bear fruit ? :)
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:58 am

JayBCNLON wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.


You mean bare foot ? Or bear fruit ? :)

Bear fruit, made an error.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
Freshside3
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:33 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.

ORD will have a difficult time, though. AA's service to ATH came surprisingly quick. Despite the fact that frequent flyers and employees alike have suggested that UA do ORD-ATH, for quite a while, UA's management was tone-deaf about it, and essentially dismissed it as a joke. Not sure what else UA can do at ORD, to counter this.

But certainly hope that common sense will prevail on other fronts, and looking forward to more international trips at DEN, IAH and EWR.
 
Judge1310
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:29 pm

Freshside3 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.

ORD will have a difficult time, though. AA's service to ATH came surprisingly quick. Despite the fact that frequent flyers and employees alike have suggested that UA do ORD-ATH, for quite a while, UA's management was tone-deaf about it, and essentially dismissed it as a joke. Not sure what else UA can do at ORD, to counter this.

But certainly hope that common sense will prevail on other fronts, and looking forward to more international trips at DEN, IAH and EWR.


I will respectfully disagree with this premise. Directly from the mouth of the VP of Network at UA, the airline will no longer sit back and cede market share to competitors. The old UA (under the one who shall not be named...Smi...!) operated under the notion of maintaining the status quo to appease Wall Street. The current UA already displayed the massive shift in mentality earlier this year with the lofty goals that initially spooked investors but now have them lauding the direction the airline is taking. Expect a continuation of aggressive, some unconventional (SFO-PPT, anyone?), and well-thought out destinations/routes.

However, just because ORD-ATH was announced by AA that doesn't mean that UA needs to "rush" into it as well. Should logistics work to operate the route then great! Let us not forget, though, that with AA drawing down other long-haul routes, they're just back filling the space with another route -- whereas UA has been upgauging and reapportioning flights when possible as they're very near to maxing out on space.

TL;DR: Adding flights does not a competitor make if other routes are being axed. Success in Network Planning and Logistics requires a massively holistic view, NOT tit-for-tat.
 
airfrnt
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:43 pm

I take the non-stop to FRA from DEN fairly frequently, and it's always blasted. I'm surprised that LH hasn't upguaged it yet but adding a third german non-stop is not a bad choice (LH already flies to both FRA and MUC). That said, it seems like the Norwegian flights are still trucking around as well, which can't be good for United's LHR flight.
 
fun2fly
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:46 pm

I was at DEN yesterday...great spotting: 788, 350, 748, 777, 789, and 752 on the international side.

UA moves a lot of people to/through BRU also. Might be the dark horse as some suggest, but seems like the boring FRA will win again...
 
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airzim
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:56 pm

Coalways wrote:
Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month


I'm going to speculate EWR-JNB, but not sure if they have the right equipment. Seems like with a weak SA, and DL having the remaining market to themselves, it's a viable option.

Maybe also re-enter the EWR-GIG/SCL nonstop market?
 
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intotheair
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:10 pm

fun2fly wrote:
UA moves a lot of people to/through BRU also. Might be the dark horse as some suggest, but seems like the boring FRA will win again...


I'm always a little amazed at how much capacity UA puts into BRU. It must work? BRU a nice alternative connecting point from the usual German hubs. DEN-BRU would also be the farthest west flight offered from BRU. Plus Paris and Amsterdam are only a quick ride away on the Thalys...
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
Eirules
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:00 pm

How about DEN-DUB? There’s rumours knocking around that Aer Lingus are going to announce it and if as expected EI join the AA / BA transatlantic joint venture next year, then the EI tie up with UA will likely end
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LH779
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:18 pm

airfrnt wrote:
... I'm surprised that LH hasn't upguaged it yet ...


The only upgauge in terms of total seats would be the A380. LHs 748s have fewer seats than the 744, which don't have first class and a smaller business cabin with a higher density ( 2-3-2 on the 744 vs 2-2-2 on the 748). Depending on the config there are only 3 to 5 rows of 2-3-2 business though.
 
codc10
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:22 pm

I expect FRA, with an early afternoon eastbound departure (to meet late morning departure bank) and late morning westbound. Similar to the IAH-FRA schedule between UA/LH.
 
jmc1975
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:45 pm

Probably either FRA or CDG...heh heh snort
.......
 
tpaewr
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:52 pm

airzim wrote:
Coalways wrote:
Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month


I'm going to speculate EWR-JNB, but not sure if they have the right equipment. Seems like with a weak SA, and DL having the remaining market to themselves, it's a viable option.

Maybe also re-enter the EWR-GIG/SCL nonstop market?




When CO ordered the 787 BLR & JNB were both tipped as earlier possibilities. But that was ages ago under Larry, who saw the 2000s build up to Europe and India.

Even earlier in the 90s CO beliefly had a codeshare with World to operate an M11 EWR-DKK-JNB. So it is not with out some history.
 
Judge1310
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:18 pm

tpaewr wrote:
airzim wrote:
Coalways wrote:
Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month


I'm going to speculate EWR-JNB, but not sure if they have the right equipment. Seems like with a weak SA, and DL having the remaining market to themselves, it's a viable option.

Maybe also re-enter the EWR-GIG/SCL nonstop market?




When CO ordered the 787 BLR & JNB were both tipped as earlier possibilities. But that was ages ago under Larry, who saw the 2000s build up to Europe and India.

Even earlier in the 90s CO beliefly had a codeshare with World to operate an M11 EWR-DKK-JNB. So it is not with out some history.


According to those in know, the 787 could not reliably operate JNB in the summer west bound to the US for UA as it's just not the right equipment. DL uses a 777-200LR for this reason. Any viable route to JNB for UA would most likely be routed from IAD.
 
rta
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:09 am

Judge1310 wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination! Let’s hope those rumors about those 2 big adds out of EWR by the end of this month bare fruit. Just hope IAH and ORD get some love too.

ORD will have a difficult time, though. AA's service to ATH came surprisingly quick. Despite the fact that frequent flyers and employees alike have suggested that UA do ORD-ATH, for quite a while, UA's management was tone-deaf about it, and essentially dismissed it as a joke. Not sure what else UA can do at ORD, to counter this.

But certainly hope that common sense will prevail on other fronts, and looking forward to more international trips at DEN, IAH and EWR.


I will respectfully disagree with this premise. Directly from the mouth of the VP of Network at UA, the airline will no longer sit back and cede market share to competitors. The old UA (under the one who shall not be named...Smi...!) operated under the notion of maintaining the status quo to appease Wall Street. The current UA already displayed the massive shift in mentality earlier this year with the lofty goals that initially spooked investors but now have them lauding the direction the airline is taking. Expect a continuation of aggressive, some unconventional (SFO-PPT, anyone?), and well-thought out destinations/routes.

However, just because ORD-ATH was announced by AA that doesn't mean that UA needs to "rush" into it as well. Should logistics work to operate the route then great! Let us not forget, though, that with AA drawing down other long-haul routes, they're just back filling the space with another route -- whereas UA has been upgauging and reapportioning flights when possible as they're very near to maxing out on space.

TL;DR: Adding flights does not a competitor make if other routes are being axed. Success in Network Planning and Logistics requires a massively holistic view, NOT tit-for-tat.


Agreed.

AA's recent adds out of ORD have been to mainly leisure destinations. I don't think UA feels too worried about this - there's probably bigger fish to fry. IAD/TLV comes to mind.
 
Freshside3
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:17 am

ikolkyo wrote:
I'd say CDG is up next, only service on it currently is DY. I'm surprised AF isn't there already.

I am, too. Many of the people in the French film industry, own vacation homes in Colorado. And for that type of clientele, DY is not the airline for them, due the lack of a true premium cabin.
 
Judge1310
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:41 am

Freshside3 wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
ORD will have a difficult time, though. AA's service to ATH came surprisingly quick. Despite the fact that frequent flyers and employees alike have suggested that UA do ORD-ATH, for quite a while, UA's management was tone-deaf about it, and essentially dismissed it as a joke. Not sure what else UA can do at ORD, to counter this.

But certainly hope that common sense will prevail on other fronts, and looking forward to more international trips at DEN, IAH and EWR.


I will respectfully disagree with this premise. Directly from the mouth of the VP of Network at UA, the airline will no longer sit back and cede market share to competitors. The old UA (under the one who shall not be named...Smi...!) operated under the notion of maintaining the status quo to appease Wall Street. The current UA already displayed the massive shift in mentality earlier this year with the lofty goals that initially spooked investors but now have them lauding the direction the airline is taking. Expect a continuation of aggressive, some unconventional (SFO-PPT, anyone?), and well-thought out destinations/routes.

However, just because ORD-ATH was announced by AA that doesn't mean that UA needs to "rush" into it as well. Should logistics work to operate the route then great! Let us not forget, though, that with AA drawing down other long-haul routes, they're just back filling the space with another route -- whereas UA has been upgauging and reapportioning flights when possible as they're very near to maxing out on space.

TL;DR: Adding flights does not a competitor make if other routes are being axed. Success in Network Planning and Logistics requires a massively holistic view, NOT tit-for-tat.
I
I wasn't suggesting "tit-for-tat", as far as ORD-ATH goes. That would be a disaster, to saturate the market, and ending up under-price it.

Perhaps I had phrased it wrong. What I meant by "countering" it, is to add a flight that would be an incentive to switch loyalties. Which is especially critical in ORD, where the market share between UA and AA is fairly close. Plus the fact that AA is already getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight.

ORD-TLV would be the logical choice, since nobody is flying from a central part of the USA to Israel. However, having IAD-TLV coming up next year, may work against the idea. An Eastern European destination, such as PRG , etc. might work. But I'm not optimistic that UA understands this part of the world, either. They had ATH totally wrong; it would be ludicrous to believe that UA would properly assess any other secondary European markets, either.

Needless to say, picking an appropriate new international route for ORD will be tricky, any way you slice it.

But a successful international trip, of some sort, in DEN, would be a better opportunity for UA.


Very good points indeed! But let's not get ahead of ourselves here, hehe. Seasonal flights don't really "draw" pax away from competitors -- they merely give local pax a direct option that they didn't have before...if the price is right, though. From where did you get the idea that AA is "...getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight." when it's barely been three days since the announcement?

Although I know that there are people who fly UA to EWR to continue to ATH, this would also take away AA folks going to PHL on to ATH. This would also affect (marginally, however) the European carriers -- if the price isn't competitive.

Regarding secondary Euro markets, there is a whole lot more to just finding a plane and flying a route. ;-)
 
Judge1310
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:47 am

Freshside3 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
I'd say CDG is up next, only service on it currently is DY. I'm surprised AF isn't there already.

I am, too. Many of the people in the French film industry, own vacation homes in Colorado. And for that type of clientele, DY is not the airline for them, due the lack of a true premium cabin.


Hate to break it to you, but AF is not going to waste a widebody aircraft to DEN just for homes in the Rockies of rich, French film glitterati.
a) LH, BA, and UA are just fine, and
b) If you can be a foreigner and can afford to have a manse up in these hills, then you can afford to fly private

8-)
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:04 am

jhsusman wrote:
Apparently Scott Kirby said today that they hope to announce another European destination in the near future (besides the seasonal LHR service).

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/1031951198029598721

So what city do people think? Paris?

Not sure if he is talking about the expected Aer Lingus Dublin codeshare that is rumored to be announced soon. . .


Very likely to be announced next week
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Freshside3
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:28 am

Judge1310 wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:

I will respectfully disagree with this premise. Directly from the mouth of the VP of Network at UA, the airline will no longer sit back and cede market share to competitors. The old UA (under the one who shall not be named...Smi...!) operated under the notion of maintaining the status quo to appease Wall Street. The current UA already displayed the massive shift in mentality earlier this year with the lofty goals that initially spooked investors but now have them lauding the direction the airline is taking. Expect a continuation of aggressive, some unconventional (SFO-PPT, anyone?), and well-thought out destinations/routes.

However, just because ORD-ATH was announced by AA that doesn't mean that UA needs to "rush" into it as well. Should logistics work to operate the route then great! Let us not forget, though, that with AA drawing down other long-haul routes, they're just back filling the space with another route -- whereas UA has been upgauging and reapportioning flights when possible as they're very near to maxing out on space.

TL;DR: Adding flights does not a competitor make if other routes are being axed. Success in Network Planning and Logistics requires a massively holistic view, NOT tit-for-tat.
I
I wasn't suggesting "tit-for-tat", as far as ORD-ATH goes. That would be a disaster, to saturate the market, and ending up under-price it.

Perhaps I had phrased it wrong. What I meant by "countering" it, is to add a flight that would be an incentive to switch loyalties. Which is especially critical in ORD, where the market share between UA and AA is fairly close. Plus the fact that AA is already getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight.

ORD-TLV would be the logical choice, since nobody is flying from a central part of the USA to Israel. However, having IAD-TLV coming up next year, may work against the idea. An Eastern European destination, such as PRG , etc. might work. But I'm not optimistic that UA understands this part of the world, either. They had ATH totally wrong; it would be ludicrous to believe that UA would properly assess any other secondary European markets, either.

Needless to say, picking an appropriate new international route for ORD will be tricky, any way you slice it.

But a successful international trip, of some sort, in DEN, would be a better opportunity for UA.


Very good points indeed! But let's not get ahead of ourselves here, hehe. Seasonal flights don't really "draw" pax away from competitors -- they merely give local pax a direct option that they didn't have before...if the price is right, though. From where did you get the idea that AA is "...getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight." when it's barely been three days since the announcement?

Although I know that there are people who fly UA to EWR to continue to ATH, this would also take away AA folks going to PHL on to ATH. This would also affect (marginally, however) the European carriers -- if the price isn't competitive.

Regarding secondary Euro markets, there is a whole lot more to just finding a plane and flying a route. ;-)


Some people in Chicago's Greek community have alreadty made statements to that effect. Which is somewhat surprising, since the flight hasn't been flown yet.
 
Freshside3
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:36 am

Freshside3 wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
I
I wasn't suggesting "tit-for-tat", as far as ORD-ATH goes. That would be a disaster, to saturate the market, and ending up under-price it.

Perhaps I had phrased it wrong. What I meant by "countering" it, is to add a flight that would be an incentive to switch loyalties. Which is especially critical in ORD, where the market share between UA and AA is fairly close. Plus the fact that AA is already getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight.

ORD-TLV would be the logical choice, since nobody is flying from a central part of the USA to Israel. However, having IAD-TLV coming up next year, may work against the idea. An Eastern European destination, such as PRG , etc. might work. But I'm not optimistic that UA understands this part of the world, either. They had ATH totally wrong; it would be ludicrous to believe that UA would properly assess any other secondary European markets, either.

Needless to say, picking an appropriate new international route for ORD will be tricky, any way you slice it.

But a successful international trip, of some sort, in DEN, would be a better opportunity for UA.


Very good points indeed! But let's not get ahead of ourselves here, hehe. Seasonal flights don't really "draw" pax away from competitors -- they merely give local pax a direct option that they didn't have before...if the price is right, though. From where did you get the idea that AA is "...getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight." when it's barely been three days since the announcement?

Although I know that there are people who fly UA to EWR to continue to ATH, this would also take away AA folks going to PHL on to ATH. This would also affect (marginally, however) the European carriers -- if the price isn't competitive.

Regarding secondary Euro markets, there is a whole lot more to just finding a plane and flying a route. ;-)


Some people in Chicago's Greek community have already made public statements to that effect. Which is somewhat surprising, since the flight hasn't been flown yet.
 
Judge1310
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:40 am

Freshside3 wrote:
Some people in Chicago's Greek community have alreadty made statements to that effect. Which is somewhat surprising, since the flight hasn't been flown yet.


Hehe conjectures don't make facts. ;-)

Sounds like an emotional response, really. Heck yeah I'd take a non-stop if I had the option but if it's going to cost more than just connecting in one of a myriad of gateway cities...most folks will stick to the lower cost option.
 
727200
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:30 am

Sounds to me some Greek/AA fly boys have gotten ahead of themselves. The market is a summer route and that's all. Its full of cheapo fares going off to look at ruins. There are NO business travelers flying this route to make it worth while. Greece economy is the pits, with a massive debt load. And anyone with a shred of Jet-A in their veins, knows 3 days into the announcement, people are not lined up tearing up their UA Mileage Plus cards to become AA members.
 
Judge1310
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:48 am

727200 wrote:
Sounds to me some Greek/AA fly boys have gotten ahead of themselves. The market is a summer route and that's all. Its full of cheapo fares going off to look at ruins. There are NO business travelers flying this route to make it worth while. Greece economy is the pits, with a massive debt load. And anyone with a shred of Jet-A in their veins, knows 3 days into the announcement, people are not lined up tearing up their UA Mileage Plus cards to become AA members.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :checkmark:
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:04 am

ScottB wrote:
but I expect AF was eating their lunch.

That was CO's perpetual problem at IAH as well... they were dominated by just about every foreign competitor on every individual int'l route with competition.

UA doesn't seem to have solved that issue.


msycajun wrote:
Wouldn't UA and EI be barred from sharing information or colluding on potential routes without antitrust immunity?

:checkmark:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
deltal1011man
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:13 am

mcg wrote:
I can't imagine why UA would want to compete with LH to FRA. I'd say it's Paris

UA/AC/LH/LX/SN and OS don't compete with each other for the most part to Europe. They are in a metal neutral joint venture. Now some of the JVs have or have had a few city pairs that are excluded from the JVs to make regulators happy but I don't remember DEN-FRA being one of those for A++.

So if UA adds DEN-FRA capacity its because all of those airlines agreed the capacity is needed.

Even if UA adds something like DEN-CDG, then all those airlines agreed to it.

Same deal with UA/NH, DL/AF/KL/AZ, DL/VS, DL/VA, DL/AM, DL/KE, AA/BA/IB, AA/JL and any other JVs. (IIRC UA and AV?)


my guess would be on addition FRA flight as well.
 
klwright69
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:54 pm

I can't really add to what hasn't already been said. AMS or CDG sound good, but it's the wrong alliance hubbed. It's likely somewhere in Germany, maybe BRU.
 
jayunited
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:59 pm

Freshside3 wrote:
I wasn't suggesting "tit-for-tat", as far as ORD-ATH goes. That would be a disaster, to saturate the market, and ending up under-price it.

Perhaps I had phrased it wrong. What I meant by "countering" it, is to add a flight that would be an incentive to switch loyalties. Which is especially critical in ORD, where the market share between UA and AA is fairly close. Plus the fact that AA is already getting some UA flyers to switch sides already, on the coattails of the ORD-ATH flight.

ORD-TLV would be the logical choice, since nobody is flying from a central part of the USA to Israel. However, having IAD-TLV coming up next year, may work against the idea. An Eastern European destination, such as PRG , etc. might work. But I'm not optimistic that UA understands this part of the world, either. They had ATH totally wrong; it would be ludicrous to believe that UA would properly assess any other secondary European markets, either.

Needless to say, picking an appropriate new international route for ORD will be tricky, any way you slice it.

But a successful international trip, of some sort, in DEN, would be a better opportunity for UA.



The issue with UA at ORD and new international long haul service is ORD will probably become a third string international gateway especially as it pertains to leisure destinations in Europe. Meaning UA launched EWR-ATH in 2016, if UA is going launch another flight from the U.S. to Athens as much as I and other employees here in Chicago would like it to be from ORD, IAD would probably be the next hub in line. Prior to the merger when UA added flights to Europe IAD was their first choice if more capacity was needed ORD was next in line. Here we are 8 years into the merger and now EWR comes first as it should. However if UA decides to pour resources into IAD and grow IAD, I can see IAD gaining more seasonal international flights to leisure European destinations, because it would free EWR to focus more on O&D and IAD can focus on connecting traffic. If after EWR and IAD even more capacity is needed to those destinations then ORD is next in line. You mentioned PRG if UA is considering adding service to PRG there is no way ORD is at the top of the list, EWR would be in the top spot most likely followed by IAD.
I could be wrong but I think it is a dynamic UA folks at ORD will have to get use to especially if UA moves ahead to grow IAD. Domestically UA is growing at ORD. Internationally ORD has to wait and I think it is evident with the recently announced IAD-TLV which no one expected people expected ORD-TLV which didn't happen. If that route proves to be just as successful as UA's EWR/SFO-TLV flights and goes from 3x weekly to daily then perhaps UA will launch ORD-TLV.
 
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STT757
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:11 pm

Judge1310 wrote:
tpaewr wrote:
airzim wrote:

I'm going to speculate EWR-JNB, but not sure if they have the right equipment. Seems like with a weak SA, and DL having the remaining market to themselves, it's a viable option.

Maybe also re-enter the EWR-GIG/SCL nonstop market?




When CO ordered the 787 BLR & JNB were both tipped as earlier possibilities. But that was ages ago under Larry, who saw the 2000s build up to Europe and India.

Even earlier in the 90s CO beliefly had a codeshare with World to operate an M11 EWR-DKK-JNB. So it is not with out some history.


According to those in know, the 787 could not reliably operate JNB in the summer west bound to the US for UA as it's just not the right equipment. DL uses a 777-200LR for this reason. Any viable route to JNB for UA would most likely be routed from IAD.


EWR-JNB is shorter than IAD-JNB.
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intotheair
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:03 pm

klwright69 wrote:
I can't really add to what hasn't already been said. AMS or CDG sound good, but it's the wrong alliance hubbed. It's likely somewhere in Germany, maybe BRU.


As much as the Germans like annexing land and airlines, BRU is still in Belgium.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
Denver772
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:26 pm

fun2fly wrote:
I was at DEN yesterday...great spotting: 788, 350, 748, 777, 789, and 752 on the international side.

UA moves a lot of people to/through BRU also. Might be the dark horse as some suggest, but seems like the boring FRA will win again...


Who flies the 748 into DEN? I'm there quite often and can say I have never seen one. Also FR24 isn't showing any 748's into DEN this week. I would love to see this though if true.
 
upgrademe2First
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:37 pm

Denver772 wrote:
fun2fly wrote:
I was at DEN yesterday...great spotting: 788, 350, 748, 777, 789, and 752 on the international side.

UA moves a lot of people to/through BRU also. Might be the dark horse as some suggest, but seems like the boring FRA will win again...


Who flies the 748 into DEN? I'm there quite often and can say I have never seen one. Also FR24 isn't showing any 748's into DEN this week. I would love to see this though if true.


BA 747 to Heathrow
LH 747 to Frankfurt

I think they are both 747-400s though
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:41 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
Nice to DEN getting a new Euro destination!


No, it certainly won't be Nice (NCE), that wouldn't be logical.
 
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

upgrademe2First wrote:
BA 747 to Heathrow
LH 747 to Frankfurt

I think they are both 747-400s though


Lufthansa could have used a 747-8 as a substitute, that wouldn't be the first time. That would also explain why it doesn't show on FlightRadar24. Plane is scheduled to be a 747-400 but last minute swapped for a 747-8.
 
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nordikcam
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:46 pm

intotheair wrote:
klwright69 wrote:
I can't really add to what hasn't already been said. AMS or CDG sound good, but it's the wrong alliance hubbed. It's likely somewhere in Germany, maybe BRU.


As much as the Germans like annexing land and airlines, BRU is still in Belgium.

Yes...but BRU is a *A airport :-)
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:45 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
ScottB wrote:
but I expect AF was eating their lunch.

That was CO's perpetual problem at IAH as well... they were dominated by just about every foreign competitor on every individual int'l route with competition.

UA doesn't seem to have solved that issue.


msycajun wrote:
Wouldn't UA and EI be barred from sharing information or colluding on potential routes without antitrust immunity?

:checkmark:

IAH-CDG did good during COs Skyteam days (for obvious reasons). But it still came to a shock for me and others when UA dumped it. Youd think there would be good feed from Latin America to CDG.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:49 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
upgrademe2First wrote:
BA 747 to Heathrow
LH 747 to Frankfurt

I think they are both 747-400s though


Lufthansa could have used a 747-8 as a substitute, that wouldn't be the first time. That would also explain why it doesn't show on FlightRadar24. Plane is scheduled to be a 747-400 but last minute swapped for a 747-8.

Didnt LH use the -8 into DEN before they started MUC-DEN?
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
Judge1310
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:42 pm

STT757 wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
tpaewr wrote:



When CO ordered the 787 BLR & JNB were both tipped as earlier possibilities. But that was ages ago under Larry, who saw the 2000s build up to Europe and India.

Even earlier in the 90s CO beliefly had a codeshare with World to operate an M11 EWR-DKK-JNB. So it is not with out some history.


According to those in know, the 787 could not reliably operate JNB in the summer west bound to the US for UA as it's just not the right equipment. DL uses a 777-200LR for this reason. Any viable route to JNB for UA would most likely be routed from IAD.


EWR-JNB is shorter than IAD-JNB.


I’m well aware of that fact, however those who plan at UA have said that IAD would be the better market to JNB.
 
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OA412
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:44 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
upgrademe2First wrote:
BA 747 to Heathrow
LH 747 to Frankfurt

I think they are both 747-400s though


Lufthansa could have used a 747-8 as a substitute, that wouldn't be the first time. That would also explain why it doesn't show on FlightRadar24. Plane is scheduled to be a 747-400 but last minute swapped for a 747-8.

Didnt LH use the -8 into DEN before they started MUC-DEN?

No, LH has never used the 747-8 on any regular basis to DEN. Subs yes, but FRA-DEN has been scheduled as a 744 for many years now. The only aircraft other than the 744 to fly FRA-DEN on a scheduled basis have been the 343 and the 346.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
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STT757
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:49 pm

Coalways wrote:
Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month


ICN, TPE, BGL, GIG, SCL
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:50 pm

Coalways wrote:
Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month


Two of these perhaps;

ICN, TPE, BGL, GIG, SCL
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:56 pm

Denver-Zurich ?
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
ual763
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:59 pm

STT757 wrote:
Coalways wrote:
Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month


Two of these perhaps;

ICN, TPE, BGL, GIG, SCL


Jus tout of curiosity what is BGL? All I see for that is Baglung? Rio is SBGL, but then again the 3letter for that is GIG which you also list.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
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STT757
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:02 pm

ual763 wrote:
STT757 wrote:
Coalways wrote:
Allegedly 2 big intl route announcement out of ewr end of this month


Two of these perhaps;

ICN, TPE, BGL, GIG, SCL


Jus tout of curiosity what is BGL? All I see for that is Baglung? Rio is SBGL, but then again the 3letter for that is GIG which you also list.


Sorry, Bangalore (BLR)
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
727200
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:45 pm

I would think the natural would be SFO-BLR. This would join the two tech centers as opposed EWR. The co people running UA need to realize the world doesnt rise n set with EWR.
 
ScottB
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Re: United's Kirby: Denver Getting Another United Euro Destination Soon

Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:54 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
IAH-CDG did good during COs Skyteam days (for obvious reasons). But it still came to a shock for me and others when UA dumped it. Youd think there would be good feed from Latin America to CDG.


IAH is out-of-the-way for connections from South America and Central America (except Belize & Guatemala) to Europe, and there's also the inconvenience of needing a visa to transit. Mexico is well-served with AM & AF both offering CDG-MEX and AF also flying CDG-CUN.

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