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eta unknown
Posts: 2929
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:28 am

ewt340 wrote:
I could fix this problems.

1. 10-abreast on their B777-300ER. This would add 30 extra economy class seat into their B777-300ER.
2. No more First Class for Corrupt Politicians.
3. Small number of Business Class seat. Majority of Indonesians can't even afford premium economy.
4. Lower the damn ticket Price! Their price is one of the highest. Knowing that majority of Local Indonesians always buy the cheapest tickets. And Australians and Kiwis have cheaper and better services with Emirates, Etihad, or Qatar.
5. Cutback on services to balance the budget for lower yield profit.
6. At least a daily flight to LHR, not 3x a week.
7. Better connections for current Australians Flights.
8. Fly to Auckland, Brisbane and Adelaide if possible to tap into those Kangaroo routes. Ain't that many Indonesians in London unlike Amsterdam.

OR:
1. Use A330-200 instead. Since Garuda have light configs for their A330-200.
2. Discounted business class and lower economy class.
3. The yield would be hella low.

OR:
1. Wait for the 251t A330-900neo for better fuel efficiency.
2. Discounted business class and lower economy class.


OK a few things...
1. this is the new Garuda and prestige is important, hence why LHR is preferred to LGW. They really wanted afternoon slots, but the asking price was something like USD40M so that was quickly shelved.
2. As correctly stated above, the route is more about connecting Jakarta with London. At one point UK investment in Indonesia was expanding- not so sure now.
3. I wonder if 3-4-3 on their 777's would negate the JKT runway improvements- the problem is 77W weight distribution with the runway.
4. Only 2 77W's with First class left in fleet (others reconfigured). First class is a requirement ot keep the Skytrax 5 star rating.
5. When BNE was relaunched in 2013 it was a choice between BNE & ADL. BNE won. Problem was the route was supposed to be 3-4x/week with an A330, then HQ decided a daily 738 instead. Unfortunately, their 738 variant required a huge weight penalty hit (50 seats blocked). Contrary to popular opinion on here, BNE was doing OK for a new route with higher yield traffic to JKT, SUB, SEL, TYO, OSA. GA have left BNE twice (and abandoned a third attempt)- they will not be back (also forget ADL & AKL).
6. AU-Europe fares are so ridiculously cheap right now with ME3 & Chinese carriers it's not worth competing.
 
ewt340
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:40 am

eta unknown wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
I could fix this problems.

1. 10-abreast on their B777-300ER. This would add 30 extra economy class seat into their B777-300ER.
2. No more First Class for Corrupt Politicians.
3. Small number of Business Class seat. Majority of Indonesians can't even afford premium economy.
4. Lower the damn ticket Price! Their price is one of the highest. Knowing that majority of Local Indonesians always buy the cheapest tickets. And Australians and Kiwis have cheaper and better services with Emirates, Etihad, or Qatar.
5. Cutback on services to balance the budget for lower yield profit.
6. At least a daily flight to LHR, not 3x a week.
7. Better connections for current Australians Flights.
8. Fly to Auckland, Brisbane and Adelaide if possible to tap into those Kangaroo routes. Ain't that many Indonesians in London unlike Amsterdam.

OR:
1. Use A330-200 instead. Since Garuda have light configs for their A330-200.
2. Discounted business class and lower economy class.
3. The yield would be hella low.

OR:
1. Wait for the 251t A330-900neo for better fuel efficiency.
2. Discounted business class and lower economy class.


OK a few things...
1. this is the new Garuda and prestige is important, hence why LHR is preferred to LGW. They really wanted afternoon slots, but the asking price was something like USD40M so that was quickly shelved.
2. As correctly stated above, the route is more about connecting Jakarta with London. At one point UK investment in Indonesia was expanding- not so sure now.
3. I wonder if 3-4-3 on their 777's would negate the JKT runway improvements- the problem is 77W weight distribution with the runway.
4. Only 2 77W's with First class left in fleet (others reconfigured). First class is a requirement ot keep the Skytrax 5 star rating.
5. When BNE was relaunched in 2013 it was a choice between BNE & ADL. BNE won. Problem was the route was supposed to be 3-4x/week with an A330, then HQ decided a daily 738 instead. Unfortunately, their 738 variant required a huge weight penalty hit (50 seats blocked). Contrary to popular opinion on here, BNE was doing OK for a new route with higher yield traffic to JKT, SUB, SEL, TYO, OSA. GA have left BNE twice (and abandoned a third attempt)- they will not be back (also forget ADL & AKL).
6. AU-Europe fares are so ridiculously cheap right now with ME3 & Chinese carriers it's not worth competing.


So:
1. GA can't compete cause they would get eaten alive.
2. GA get 5 stars rating even though they are nowhere near it.
3. GA won't be able to enter European market anymore.

Sounds about right though.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2929
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:59 am

The 5 Star rating is deserved- product is excellent.
Even AMS isn't profitable so LHR has no chance. However as a state owned enterprise GA are forced to do things that make no economic sense- but at least the govt. pays for it.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:01 am

peterinlisbon wrote:
Re. the overnight stop in Jakarta - it's actually a great place to spend a night as you can get a 5* hotel for about £30 and a Mercedes limousine to/from the airport costs about £10. But I understand most people wouldn't want to do that, they just want to get where they're going. Anyway, the Australia-UK market is saturated and the fares are low. Jakarta and Indonesia are great destinations, but they are far from the UK and not really well-known enough (apart from Bali) to justify the flight. Maybe the economics will change in the future if the airline acquires a smaller, lighter aircraft that can do the route.


I've been to Jakarta and neither anyone I know or myself would call it a great destination. Indonesia has some good places to visit but IMO not Jakarta.

There's a reason it's not a tourist hotspot like alot of SEA Capitals.
 
Kishori81
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 9:23 am

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:32 pm

This route CGK/LHR is now re-instated from 29OCT 3x weekly using 773 in J/Y classes only.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1868
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:56 pm

NTLDaz wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
Re. the overnight stop in Jakarta - it's actually a great place to spend a night as you can get a 5* hotel for about £30 and a Mercedes limousine to/from the airport costs about £10. But I understand most people wouldn't want to do that, they just want to get where they're going. Anyway, the Australia-UK market is saturated and the fares are low. Jakarta and Indonesia are great destinations, but they are far from the UK and not really well-known enough (apart from Bali) to justify the flight. Maybe the economics will change in the future if the airline acquires a smaller, lighter aircraft that can do the route.


I've been to Jakarta and neither anyone I know or myself would call it a great destination. Indonesia has some good places to visit but IMO not Jakarta.

There's a reason it's not a tourist hotspot like alot of SEA Capitals.


I'm not saying that it's a great destination, but it is a good place to spend the night between flights, especially as 5* hotels there are some of the cheapest in the world, plus food and transportation are also very cheap. Maybe they could offer overnight stops including a hotel as it wouldn't cost them that much.
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 2929
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:21 pm

JKT isn't SIN, KUL, BKK, HKG... once you go through the hell of JKT traffic (heaven forbid it's raining) you'll never want to repeat the experience. There are very few time windows of traffic opportunity from the airport to downtown, so if you're lucky the gods are smiling on you. However, most times it will be a very unpleasant experience. Now I'm not sure what 5 star hotel you're referring to, but with Kangaroo route fares at all time lows, there's no room in the fare for stopover accommodation to be given away... if people want a stopover, JKT is definitely not on most people's list- having visited numerous times I definitely never want to go back.
 
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Coal
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:14 am

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:34 pm

NTLDaz wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
Re. the overnight stop in Jakarta - it's actually a great place to spend a night as you can get a 5* hotel for about £30 and a Mercedes limousine to/from the airport costs about £10. But I understand most people wouldn't want to do that, they just want to get where they're going. Anyway, the Australia-UK market is saturated and the fares are low. Jakarta and Indonesia are great destinations, but they are far from the UK and not really well-known enough (apart from Bali) to justify the flight. Maybe the economics will change in the future if the airline acquires a smaller, lighter aircraft that can do the route.


I've been to Jakarta and neither anyone I know or myself would call it a great destination. Indonesia has some good places to visit but IMO not Jakarta.

There's a reason it's not a tourist hotspot like alot of SEA Capitals.

Thinking this through a bit more, I wonder if it would make more sense for connections to be via DPS instead. You can capture from LHR to DPS direct traffic in addition to connecting traffic to Australia, and same from Australian ports.
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
SeanM1997
Posts: 424
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:01 pm

I don't understand why the Garuda website is selling London-Jakarta non-stop from 27 November 3x weekly, yet alot of press are saying the route starting on 15 November, doing a refuelling stop in Singapore, and operating to Denpasar
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1170
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:13 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Change of config, LHR was getting the two remaining B77Ws with F !

According to Amadeus, it's the 2-cabin 773 which will be used.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1170
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:20 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
I don't understand why the Garuda website is selling London-Jakarta non-stop from 27 November 3x weekly, yet alot of press are saying the route starting on 15 November, doing a refuelling stop in Singapore, and operating to Denpasar

The press is wrong as the planned 3x weekly CGK-LHR route (nonstop in both directions, taking 14h 55m outbound and 14h 15m inbound) starts on 26 November. DPS is not involved.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5869
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:46 pm

eta unknown wrote:
JKT isn't SIN, KUL, BKK, HKG... once you go through the hell of JKT traffic (heaven forbid it's raining) you'll never want to repeat the experience. There are very few time windows of traffic opportunity from the airport to downtown, so if you're lucky the gods are smiling on you. However, most times it will be a very unpleasant experience. Now I'm not sure what 5 star hotel you're referring to, but with Kangaroo route fares at all time lows, there's no room in the fare for stopover accommodation to be given away... if people want a stopover, JKT is definitely not on most people's list- having visited numerous times I definitely never want to go back.


Lol, I haven’t been there personally but this is how everyone has described Jakarta to me.
 
ewt340
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:14 pm

tphuang wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
JKT isn't SIN, KUL, BKK, HKG... once you go through the hell of JKT traffic (heaven forbid it's raining) you'll never want to repeat the experience. There are very few time windows of traffic opportunity from the airport to downtown, so if you're lucky the gods are smiling on you. However, most times it will be a very unpleasant experience. Now I'm not sure what 5 star hotel you're referring to, but with Kangaroo route fares at all time lows, there's no room in the fare for stopover accommodation to be given away... if people want a stopover, JKT is definitely not on most people's list- having visited numerous times I definitely never want to go back.


Lol, I haven’t been there personally but this is how everyone has described Jakarta to me.


I'm currently living in Jakarta now. It's not a good place for tourist. I always tell them to avoid this city.

It's like the uglier version of Bangkok.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:46 am

Coal wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
Re. the overnight stop in Jakarta - it's actually a great place to spend a night as you can get a 5* hotel for about £30 and a Mercedes limousine to/from the airport costs about £10. But I understand most people wouldn't want to do that, they just want to get where they're going. Anyway, the Australia-UK market is saturated and the fares are low. Jakarta and Indonesia are great destinations, but they are far from the UK and not really well-known enough (apart from Bali) to justify the flight. Maybe the economics will change in the future if the airline acquires a smaller, lighter aircraft that can do the route.


I've been to Jakarta and neither anyone I know or myself would call it a great destination. Indonesia has some good places to visit but IMO not Jakarta.

There's a reason it's not a tourist hotspot like alot of SEA Capitals.

Thinking this through a bit more, I wonder if it would make more sense for connections to be via DPS instead. You can capture from LHR to DPS direct traffic in addition to connecting traffic to Australia, and same from Australian ports.


If you had read through all of the previous posts you would have come across my post where I had already mentioned LHR-DPS-CGK as that is what the initial understanding that the route would take but now it seems that flight has reverted back again to a non stop LHR-CGK.

At least all these changes to the flight schedule being made by Garuda are within a relatively short time frame and before the actual flight resumes again rather than changing it again once the flight recommences.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
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AlexA340B777
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:37 am

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:42 pm

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ga86

not a good restart: first flight cancelled
6 continents, 85 countries, 748 flights, 90 airlines, 37 aircraft types
 
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AlexA340B777
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:37 am

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:22 am

What happened to the restart of the CGK-LHR route?

According to flightradar24 until now it has not restarted again...
6 continents, 85 countries, 748 flights, 90 airlines, 37 aircraft types
 
David_itl
Posts: 6439
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

Re: Garuda shutter LHR

Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:46 am

A 1 second search of google found this:

"Despite the revised schedule listing displays service to resume on 06DEC18, however reservation for 06DEC18, 08DEC18, 11DEC18 is not available. First flight available for reservation is 13DEC18."

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/281663/garuda-indonesia-delays-london-heathrow-resumption-to-dec-2018/

Just because a flight is listed in flightradar 24 does not mean that it is scheduled to operate. It was well known that Jet Airways service to MAN was starting in November (i.e. every single new article referencing this) yet flightradar 24 had the service starting at the beginning of the winter timetable in October.

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