Check out this graphic! So is the 747 dead for FedEx?
http://www.newgomemphis.com/newgo/daily/031002/airbus.jpg
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
What's up with the FedEx 744 (don't operate them), BTW?
LY744.
LY744.
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- Airontario
- Posts: 814
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RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
Thats a cool comparrison but mabye Fed-Ex will use 747's on high density continental runs and 380 on international ones
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- Flying-Tiger
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RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
The graphic is BS. Look at the B747-400F... it has the standart PAX upper deck, the freight B747-400 don´t have it. And to my very best knowledge FedEx does not operate B747s at the moment, neither have they some on order.
Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
Looks interesting! However, the 744F has the classic 742-style upper deck.
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- lindy field
- Posts: 3006
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RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
The A380 will sure be an ungainly whale of a plane. Impressive yes, elegant no.
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
It looks like this graphic is just showing part of process FedEx whent through when deciding to order the A380F over the B747-400F.
It's not a technical document, although the cross-section comparisons are interesting...
Regards
CROSSWIND
It's not a technical document, although the cross-section comparisons are interesting...
Regards
CROSSWIND
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
when did we start painting the engines purple??
the A380 should be an interesting beast to work on the ground... wonder if they are inventing new loaders to reach the upper deck....
how much will that cost?
later
the A380 should be an interesting beast to work on the ground... wonder if they are inventing new loaders to reach the upper deck....
how much will that cost?
later
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
They have missed out the upper passenger deck, which is used for crew rest and storage of important items,such as mail and others.
9V-SVA
9V-SVA
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
I think that they a wrong on both airplanes, talking about the Range, because the 747-400F range is almost 4500 nm and I know the A-380F is not 8000nm, those range are for the pax versions.
Juanchito
Juanchito
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
For more perspective, see the article that accompanies the diagram:
http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/business/article/0,1426,MCA_440_1023143,00.html
http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/business/article/0,1426,MCA_440_1023143,00.html
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
The 747 is MUCH better looking than the A380, not that looks count though, just my opinion.
Those cans in the A380's belly, are they existing cans already used on DC10s and A300s or are they new cans FedEx will have to buy in order to maximize the space in the A380 instead of using their current cans, which will result in a waste of space, because I'm sure they're smaller than what the A380 is capable of accomodating.
Those cans in the A380's belly, are they existing cans already used on DC10s and A300s or are they new cans FedEx will have to buy in order to maximize the space in the A380 instead of using their current cans, which will result in a waste of space, because I'm sure they're smaller than what the A380 is capable of accomodating.
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
About the long upper deck of the Fedex 744F on the picture : It is right that the normal 747-400F has a short upper deck, which offers the benefit of a higher maindeck (I don't recall the actual figures, but I think under the upper deck the useable height is 2.40m while behind the upper deck it is 3m...)
However it could well be that Fedex already took possible conversions from retired 744 passenger aircraft into account, just like there are now some 747-300 freighters. As an Express carrier, Fedex normally has no oversize shipments such as oil drilling equipment etc, which woudl require a nose door. So an Express carrier like Fedey could be happy with a 747-400 with side Cargo door only, like a converted passenger 744. Mind you, the 744 is already getting 13 years old, so there might be soon some on the market for conversion....
Best regards,
Tom
However it could well be that Fedex already took possible conversions from retired 744 passenger aircraft into account, just like there are now some 747-300 freighters. As an Express carrier, Fedex normally has no oversize shipments such as oil drilling equipment etc, which woudl require a nose door. So an Express carrier like Fedey could be happy with a 747-400 with side Cargo door only, like a converted passenger 744. Mind you, the 744 is already getting 13 years old, so there might be soon some on the market for conversion....
Best regards,
Tom
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
The A380 will sure be an ungainly whale of a plane. Impressive yes, elegant no.
This was said by Lindyfield. I couldn't agree more.
blink
This was said by Lindyfield. I couldn't agree more.
blink
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
The 388 is more stubby than the recently introduced 345/6. The stretch 389, if/when that becomes available, will have somewhat more graceful lines.
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
If FX has choosen the A380 against the 747, it is because they can use their cans on the 3 decks, reducing the volume of space wasted.
Exprrs is made of packages, most of them containerized, and not outsized shipments. As a result, they need a deck that is just as high as their cans.
That's why FX has sold all its 747s, and lease them from times to times for charter operations.(very small part of its business)
Nana....
Exprrs is made of packages, most of them containerized, and not outsized shipments. As a result, they need a deck that is just as high as their cans.
That's why FX has sold all its 747s, and lease them from times to times for charter operations.(very small part of its business)
Nana....
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
I've heard that all the loading equip. Fedex allready has will work on the A380, The aircraft will come with a built in "lift" to take the cans to the upper deck... One of the reasons FEDEX dosen't like the 747 is because its so hard to quick turn... So the A380 would have to do better than the 747 as far as loading time.... both planes would still take a long time to fuel....
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
Juanchito,
The A380-863F Model with GP 7277 Engines can do about 10200 nm when light, A380-843F Model with TRENT 977 Engines can do about 10000 nm when light, both do about 5700 nm at 150 t payload, 8000 nm at 95 t payload.
Passenger versions A380-861 Model/GP 7270 Engines, A380-841 Model/TRENT 970 Engines have a maximum passenger payload of 52 t, with 8000 nm, at max weight 6600nm, and max range of about 9500 nm, the GP 7270 engines are a little more efficent giving you and extra couple of hundred nm (9700 nm).
Zeke
The A380-863F Model with GP 7277 Engines can do about 10200 nm when light, A380-843F Model with TRENT 977 Engines can do about 10000 nm when light, both do about 5700 nm at 150 t payload, 8000 nm at 95 t payload.
Passenger versions A380-861 Model/GP 7270 Engines, A380-841 Model/TRENT 970 Engines have a maximum passenger payload of 52 t, with 8000 nm, at max weight 6600nm, and max range of about 9500 nm, the GP 7270 engines are a little more efficent giving you and extra couple of hundred nm (9700 nm).
Zeke
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
It seems that they are wrong about the fact that the a380 can operate anywhere that the 747 can. The a380 will require 200 foot wide runways and wider spaceing on taxiways.
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
Zeke has good point!
But wasn't there a talk about reducing A380 weight by 20-30 tonnes because it is overweighted?
But wasn't there a talk about reducing A380 weight by 20-30 tonnes because it is overweighted?
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
N757st,
The 380 can do a 180 degree turn on 185 ft runways (uses 157ft), 95 ft is the taxiway width people have been working on.
I think most people have worked on 45m (150ft) & 60m (196 ft) runway widths.
The real issue in length, 2500 m at MSL, 3000m at FL040, 4500-5000m at FL060-FL080.
Zeke
The 380 can do a 180 degree turn on 185 ft runways (uses 157ft), 95 ft is the taxiway width people have been working on.
I think most people have worked on 45m (150ft) & 60m (196 ft) runway widths.
The real issue in length, 2500 m at MSL, 3000m at FL040, 4500-5000m at FL060-FL080.
Zeke
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
Interesting idea of a lift insaide the aircraft, i would have thought that would be weight prohibitive... and i'm sure when it breaks theres gonna be a lot fun there (everything on a plane breaks eventually.. no matter how knew).
And i don't buy the 747 takes to long to turn, Fred just didn't want them. He had a lock on all those MD-11's and they were cheaper... I recall turning a 744 a lot fatser than the 2 fuel trucks to could fill it for the trans-atlantic run. And the powered floor system made it significantly less manpower intensive than the rest of the fleet. I only hope Airbus uses a system similar like that... not the ones they have used on the 300/310s.
i miss the big boeings....
later
And i don't buy the 747 takes to long to turn, Fred just didn't want them. He had a lock on all those MD-11's and they were cheaper... I recall turning a 744 a lot fatser than the 2 fuel trucks to could fill it for the trans-atlantic run. And the powered floor system made it significantly less manpower intensive than the rest of the fleet. I only hope Airbus uses a system similar like that... not the ones they have used on the 300/310s.
i miss the big boeings....
later
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
What doomed the 747 at FedEx was the different type of can that was required on the main deck. All the cans in the FedEx system go on trucks, through ramps, stations, and hubs and need to be as cross-compatible as possible. The 747 required unusually high cans to fully use the space it provided. This was an extra cost and complicated things operationaly.
joe
joe
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
Keep in mind that there must be places FedEX flies to that doesn't have the cargo volume to fill an A380. For that very reason you could assume they'd continue to opperate the 747.
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
ummmm, I don't think FedEx has operated any 747's for years now. A bit hard then for them to continue using them then, eh?
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
The x-tiger 747's FEDEX got when they bought tigers where pure junk. The 747 loading system is the last thing the A380 needs, the worst thing about the 747 was the "smart wheels" they where a maint. nightmare... we will have to see if the "lift system" for the upper deck of the A380 works out, I guess there will be one up front and on at the back.
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
Where will those A380s fly out of? Memphis?
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
Pure and simple, the 747 whether a freighter, or pax-conversion was designed to carry CARGO, big cargo on pallets and thats what you see most 747 freighters carrying, not containers, especially on the main deck. They are great for loading long pieces (through the nose) and also for tall stuff through the rear cargo door but the drawback has got to be the otherwise wasted space when using containers on the main deck. If you dont have a nosedoor you also loose most of the functionality of the space underneath the upper deck- at least this is what I saw in freighters that were pax conversions, there werent even wheels in the flor, it was just empty.
Someone mentioned the upper deck being used for carrying mail etc or "important packages", I never saw anything carried upstairs other than crew bags, catering and....uh, thats it. On 747-400Fs there are only a couple (maybe 3) seats and the crew rest area plus a small galley and lav, no room to carry anything. On the -200s that are pax conversions (at least LH Cargo and Air France) they keep the seats up top as well as the galley just like when they were used to carry pax. The 400Fs delete most of the space in the upper deck and the upper deck floor cuts off right behind the crew rest bunks.
At any rate, I would say that any aircraft which is designed to carry containerized cargo is going to use space more efficiently than a 747. But the 747 will remain the choice for outsized and paletized freight that would be too tall for the A380 decks.
Someone mentioned the upper deck being used for carrying mail etc or "important packages", I never saw anything carried upstairs other than crew bags, catering and....uh, thats it. On 747-400Fs there are only a couple (maybe 3) seats and the crew rest area plus a small galley and lav, no room to carry anything. On the -200s that are pax conversions (at least LH Cargo and Air France) they keep the seats up top as well as the galley just like when they were used to carry pax. The 400Fs delete most of the space in the upper deck and the upper deck floor cuts off right behind the crew rest bunks.
At any rate, I would say that any aircraft which is designed to carry containerized cargo is going to use space more efficiently than a 747. But the 747 will remain the choice for outsized and paletized freight that would be too tall for the A380 decks.
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
Interesting note to one of the captions next to the cross-sections. . ."the 747 has a considerable amount of wasted space." Looks to me like the A380 has even a larger amount of non-usable space.
Either it is not a good cross-sectioned picture, or there is an Airbus-lover in the air.
Me?. . .I like both A/C
Either it is not a good cross-sectioned picture, or there is an Airbus-lover in the air.
Me?. . .I like both A/C
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
What happens if US airports just don't make the modifications that are necessary? LAX is loosing money like crazy right now. Who will pay for this?
Also, as we just witnessed @ El Toro, building and expanding airports around here will be next to IMPOSSIBLE.
I'm just curious.
Also, as we just witnessed @ El Toro, building and expanding airports around here will be next to IMPOSSIBLE.
I'm just curious.
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
Anyone have data on cargo capacity for both planes?
RE: FedEx A380 Compared To 747 Picture
I think Airbus should put a second set of windsheilds at the front of the upper deck for the jumpseaters or for the first class on a pax version.
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- boeing767-300
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RE: Dc10guy
I reckon... upper deck front windows on an A380.. now THAT would be something, although the price that it would command would be out of most peoples reach
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