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evank516
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Re: Confirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:01 pm

Actually, found this link. Looks like DL would fly to DTW:
https://worcestermag.com/2018/06/01/mas ... orts/60065
 
B752OS
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:07 pm

Worcester County, which is not a part of the Boston MSA, has a population of over 800,000 people. Adding service to a large hub with a wealth of connections is should (in theory) do well. I hope this new service works out well.
 
wnflyguy
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:10 pm

cloudboy wrote:
Supposedly it is a major carrier, so either DL or WN.


WN got its Eyes on 4 Hawaii cities,adding additional LGB slots and PAE.
It's not adding ORH.
Flyguy
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evank516
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:14 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
cloudboy wrote:
Supposedly it is a major carrier, so either DL or WN.


WN got its Eyes on 4 Hawaii cities,adding additional LGB slots and PAE.
It's not adding ORH.
Flyguy


Agreed, I don't ever see WN adding ORH.
 
airbazar
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:23 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
If they do DTW-ORH, they'll also do ATL-ORH. That's just how it works folks.

Not really. At MHT DL is down to 1 ATL and 3x DTW. In the winter they will pull ATL and 1x DTW and will be left with 2x DTW and no ATL.

Super80Fan wrote:
The issue with ORH is that it's small, and it directly competes with BOS & BDL, and to a lesser degree PVD.

Or you could look at it from a different angle and see it as a complement to the other airports in the area. As for BOS in particular, DL will need to find additional gates to compete with B6, even if those gates are at a different airport. Since it's obvious that they [DL] are pulling out of MHT, ORH which is owned by the same public authority as BOS may work for them.
 
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klm617
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:24 pm

evank516 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Or UA. Who knows, they have lots of RJs around and could be willing to offer ORH-ORD.


Are you sure it was ATL? I thought it was CVG. Or was it both?



However we need to remember that ATL is DL's largest hub with over 1,000 daily departures and with lots of traffic between the Northeast and FL, ORH-ATL is most likely to work the best since DL can reach all of the cities B6 can't from JFK or their nonstop MCO and FLL routes out of ORH. Even PHL doesn't have the Florida network that ATL has with PNS, VPS, GNV, DAB (B6's DAB flight doesn't connect with the JFK-ORH flight, only ORH-JFK), MLB, EYW all are one stops exclusive to ATL on DL and my bet is that is where the majority of the ORH pax are going...Florida. So DL can probably capitalize by offering ATL.



Yes but by adding ORH-ATL to feed Florida it would be competing against itself at BOST not to mention if you're a premium Delta flying why would you chose a ORH one stop connection over ATL when you can just go up to BOS and get a NONSTOP. By offering a DTW-ORH nonstop Delta opens up a whole new segment of their network that doesn't compete with the BOS operation in the least. The only nonstops out of BOS west are LAX, SEA and SFO


Except DL offers BOS-DTW too, so in essence, all of the destinations available with BOS-DTW are also available with ORH-DTW which means it's competing with itself anyway. If you haven't noticed, DL doesn't hesitate to compliment somewhat nearby primary airports with similar service to smaller secondary airports, and there's no way they would hurt their BOS flights since the catchement area for BOS is rather large extending from PVD all the way through PWM and north and west as well. All of the Florida cities I mentioned above do not have nonstops from BOS either. ATL offers the largest amount of flights and the majority of the destinations for those in the Northeast are to Florida. ATL is more guaranteed to fill planes, and can be done with a larger aircraft. I'm not saying DTW wouldn't be an option, I'm just saying ORH-ATL has more potential.


No it's not flying from ORH-DTW effects BOS O?D far less because DL is already well connected out of BOS southward so if I live in ORH if I have a choice of flying ORH-ATL-Florida or BOS-Florida at around the same fare I'm driving up to BOS to get that nonstop because in the long run I'm saving time plus eliminating the Connection in ATL. Now with DTW that can only happen in 3 or 4 markets plus ORH-DTW give you more access you have places like DEN, MKE, IND, CLE, OMA, PVG, PEK and the like that you don't have over ATL which are much more likely to carry premium traffic than any ORH Florida traffic. So DTW makes more sense than ATL in a lot of ways size doesn't always matter like in this case.
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evank516
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:39 pm

klm617 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
klm617 wrote:


Yes but by adding ORH-ATL to feed Florida it would be competing against itself at BOST not to mention if you're a premium Delta flying why would you chose a ORH one stop connection over ATL when you can just go up to BOS and get a NONSTOP. By offering a DTW-ORH nonstop Delta opens up a whole new segment of their network that doesn't compete with the BOS operation in the least. The only nonstops out of BOS west are LAX, SEA and SFO


Except DL offers BOS-DTW too, so in essence, all of the destinations available with BOS-DTW are also available with ORH-DTW which means it's competing with itself anyway. If you haven't noticed, DL doesn't hesitate to compliment somewhat nearby primary airports with similar service to smaller secondary airports, and there's no way they would hurt their BOS flights since the catchement area for BOS is rather large extending from PVD all the way through PWM and north and west as well. All of the Florida cities I mentioned above do not have nonstops from BOS either. ATL offers the largest amount of flights and the majority of the destinations for those in the Northeast are to Florida. ATL is more guaranteed to fill planes, and can be done with a larger aircraft. I'm not saying DTW wouldn't be an option, I'm just saying ORH-ATL has more potential.


No it's not flying from ORH-DTW effects BOS O?D far less because DL is already well connected out of BOS southward so if I live in ORH if I have a choice of flying ORH-ATL-Florida or BOS-Florida at around the same fare I'm driving up to BOS to get that nonstop because in the long run I'm saving time plus eliminating the Connection in ATL. Now with DTW that can only happen in 3 or 4 markets plus ORH-DTW give you more access you have places like DEN, MKE, IND, CLE, OMA, PVG, PEK and the like that you don't have over ATL which are much more likely to carry premium traffic than any ORH Florida traffic. So DTW makes more sense than ATL in a lot of ways size doesn't always matter like in this case.


Can you fly from BOS-PNS, VPS, TLH, DAB, MLB, GNV, or EYW nonstop? No? That's what I thought. You also realize that all of those domestic cities you mentioned can be achieved from PHL right? So now DL has to fight with AA to attract passengers. It's already been said that DL will probably fly to DTW, but geez dude, your bias towards it is skewing your facts. I have absolutely nothing against DTW, I was just there and it is quite a nice place to change planes, but you still need to understand that the sheer volume you can get out of ATL is just so much larger than DTW. It's also a matter of where the people want to go, and for someone who clearly does not live in the Northeast, the place where the majority of people want to go is Florida and other destinations in the Southeastern US, and not just Orlando, Miami, and Ft. Lauderdale. Heck you can add SRQ to that list because SRQ isn't served year round from BOS IIRC. In addition, 1 flight per day nonstops are not always ideal either, and many of the small to medium sized Florida destinations only have one flight per day. It's risky and if your flight gets cancelled you may be stuck connecting anyway, at least that's how I look at it. I fly to DAB regularly, and have for many years before B6 introduced JFK-DAB. I flew to DAB anyway despite the nonstop options to MCO. Some people just prefer the closer airport regardless.
 
Capt.Fantastic
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:59 pm

Not sure if it's already been mentioned, but Northwest used to fly DTW-ORH in the late '80s. In 1989, service was 3x daily DC9s
Hopefully, service resumes
 
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compensateme
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:11 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
If they do DTW-ORH, they'll also do ATL-ORH. That's just how it works folks.


So that must be why DL’s flying 717 from ITH, ELM, etc. to ATL. Oh, and I read on a.net last week that DL informed ELM that in 2020, the 717 is being replaced with the A220.
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compensateme
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:18 pm

evank516 wrote:
cloudboy wrote:
Supposedly it is a major carrier, so either DL or WN.

Or UA. Who knows, they have lots of RJs around and could be willing to offer ORH-ORD.

Judge1310 wrote:
This is a resumption of service as ORH used to be served from ATL way back in the early 2000s. Back then it was on a CL-65 (CRJ-200).

Are you sure it was ATL? I thought it was CVG. Or was it both?

compensateme wrote:
Because various sources are indicating it’ll be DL to DTW. MassPort is targeting & offering incentive packages to legacy airlines, they don’t seem to be chasing ULCC. Not that ORH fits the mold of NK, anyway.

Given the subsidy offering, it’ll most likely be on CRJ to DTW. B6 is getting subsidy money to JFK & ATL is nearly twice as far, and with a finite number of two-class regional jets, it’s unlikely (and unprescented) that DL would put one on an ATL run.


However we need to remember that ATL is DL's largest hub with over 1,000 daily departures and with lots of traffic between the Northeast and FL, ORH-ATL is most likely to work the best since DL can reach all of the cities B6 can't from JFK or their nonstop MCO and FLL routes out of ORH. Even PHL doesn't have the Florida network that ATL has with PNS, VPS, GNV, DAB (B6's DAB flight doesn't connect with the JFK-ORH flight, only ORH-JFK), MLB, EYW all are one stops exclusive to ATL on DL and my bet is that is where the majority of the ORH pax are going...Florida. So DL can probably capitalize by offering ATL.


DL doesn’t operate to ATL from other smaller NE communities, and ORH will be no exception. Too long of a flight for a CRJ (per DL’s self-imposed rule) and absolutely no way they’ll “waste” a two-cabin RH on this flight.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
evank516
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:39 pm

compensateme wrote:
evank516 wrote:
cloudboy wrote:
Supposedly it is a major carrier, so either DL or WN.

Or UA. Who knows, they have lots of RJs around and could be willing to offer ORH-ORD.

Judge1310 wrote:
This is a resumption of service as ORH used to be served from ATL way back in the early 2000s. Back then it was on a CL-65 (CRJ-200).

Are you sure it was ATL? I thought it was CVG. Or was it both?

compensateme wrote:
Because various sources are indicating it’ll be DL to DTW. MassPort is targeting & offering incentive packages to legacy airlines, they don’t seem to be chasing ULCC. Not that ORH fits the mold of NK, anyway.

Given the subsidy offering, it’ll most likely be on CRJ to DTW. B6 is getting subsidy money to JFK & ATL is nearly twice as far, and with a finite number of two-class regional jets, it’s unlikely (and unprescented) that DL would put one on an ATL run.


However we need to remember that ATL is DL's largest hub with over 1,000 daily departures and with lots of traffic between the Northeast and FL, ORH-ATL is most likely to work the best since DL can reach all of the cities B6 can't from JFK or their nonstop MCO and FLL routes out of ORH. Even PHL doesn't have the Florida network that ATL has with PNS, VPS, GNV, DAB (B6's DAB flight doesn't connect with the JFK-ORH flight, only ORH-JFK), MLB, EYW all are one stops exclusive to ATL on DL and my bet is that is where the majority of the ORH pax are going...Florida. So DL can probably capitalize by offering ATL.


DL doesn’t operate to ATL from other smaller NE communities, and ORH will be no exception. Too long of a flight for a CRJ (per DL’s self-imposed rule) and absolutely no way they’ll “waste” a two-cabin RH on this flight.


You're partially correct. ELM has seasonal ATL service, so that leaves ITH, BGM, BGR, ERI, and SCE. SWF previously had ATL service as did BGM. BGR only has JFK and LGA. PWM, MHT (most of the time), HPN, BTV, ABE, and AVP all have ATL flights. HPN may be a stretch to say smaller NE Communities because they're still part of the large NY Metro Area. It also matters what you define as smaller NE Communities. I'm not saying it won't be DTW, I'm just saying ATL would be just as beneficial. It's still 7 communities with ATL flights vs 6 that don't.
 
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:20 pm

For JetBlue the JFK flight is an easy add on. Easy to tag on at the end of the day, the jet sits overnight in ORH, the crew goes back and forth to Boston. The plane is then down for JFK early enough in the morning, it really is adding a few more customers to a plane that would otherwise be sitting there.

I suspect DL will do the same with DTW. Early morning out, late evening back. Although I suspect the will throw a CRJ700 on the route. They will try to make it attractive to the central 495 corridor execs who live in the Worcester area who don't want to make the trek into Boston.
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spinkid
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:18 pm

SWF is a much busier airport and they only get DL service to DTW, so Worcester won't see ATL.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:20 pm

evank516 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Or UA. Who knows, they have lots of RJs around and could be willing to offer ORH-ORD.


Are you sure it was ATL? I thought it was CVG. Or was it both?



However we need to remember that ATL is DL's largest hub with over 1,000 daily departures and with lots of traffic between the Northeast and FL, ORH-ATL is most likely to work the best since DL can reach all of the cities B6 can't from JFK or their nonstop MCO and FLL routes out of ORH. Even PHL doesn't have the Florida network that ATL has with PNS, VPS, GNV, DAB (B6's DAB flight doesn't connect with the JFK-ORH flight, only ORH-JFK), MLB, EYW all are one stops exclusive to ATL on DL and my bet is that is where the majority of the ORH pax are going...Florida. So DL can probably capitalize by offering ATL.


DL doesn’t operate to ATL from other smaller NE communities, and ORH will be no exception. Too long of a flight for a CRJ (per DL’s self-imposed rule) and absolutely no way they’ll “waste” a two-cabin RH on this flight.


You're partially correct. ELM has seasonal ATL service, so that leaves ITH, BGM, BGR, ERI, and SCE. SWF previously had ATL service as did BGM. BGR only has JFK and LGA. PWM, MHT (most of the time), HPN, BTV, ABE, and AVP all have ATL flights. HPN may be a stretch to say smaller NE Communities because they're still part of the large NY Metro Area. It also matters what you define as smaller NE Communities. I'm not saying it won't be DTW, I'm just saying ATL would be just as beneficial. It's still 7 communities with ATL flights vs 6 that don't.


Based on your argument, every single market in this country is best served via ATL. But the economics don’t always work out, which is why there’s numerous communities in the Midwest and Northeast that maintain service to only to DTW, nearly all smaller communities utilizing 50-sweat jets, often subsidized/shared risk. ORH follows this pattern. Ultimately, it’s too far for DL to operate a CRJ into ATL (per its self imposed rule) and there’s no way they’re going to use a two-cabin regional jet to ATL (would be unprecedented and a total waste of resources for a limited fleet).

Instead of arguing that point, you choose to split hairs telling me I’m “partially correct” because DL operates ELM-ATL a whopping two weeks a year, and markets like SCE had service to ATL a decade ago, heck ORH had service there nearly two decades ago. Guess what? Welcome to 2018!!! These mean nothing in context of launching service today.
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evank516
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:49 pm

compensateme wrote:
evank516 wrote:
compensateme wrote:

DL doesn’t operate to ATL from other smaller NE communities, and ORH will be no exception. Too long of a flight for a CRJ (per DL’s self-imposed rule) and absolutely no way they’ll “waste” a two-cabin RH on this flight.


You're partially correct. ELM has seasonal ATL service, so that leaves ITH, BGM, BGR, ERI, and SCE. SWF previously had ATL service as did BGM. BGR only has JFK and LGA. PWM, MHT (most of the time), HPN, BTV, ABE, and AVP all have ATL flights. HPN may be a stretch to say smaller NE Communities because they're still part of the large NY Metro Area. It also matters what you define as smaller NE Communities. I'm not saying it won't be DTW, I'm just saying ATL would be just as beneficial. It's still 7 communities with ATL flights vs 6 that don't.


Based on your argument, every single market in this country is best served via ATL. But the economics don’t always work out, which is why there’s numerous communities in the Midwest and Northeast that maintain service to only to DTW, nearly all smaller communities utilizing 50-sweat jets, often subsidized/shared risk. ORH follows this pattern. Ultimately, it’s too far for DL to operate a CRJ into ATL (per its self imposed rule) and there’s no way they’re going to use a two-cabin regional jet to ATL (would be unprecedented and a total waste of resources for a limited fleet).

Instead of arguing that point, you choose to split hairs telling me I’m “partially correct” because DL operates ELM-ATL a whopping two weeks a year, and markets like SCE had service to ATL a decade ago, heck ORH had service there nearly two decades ago. Guess what? Welcome to 2018!!! These mean nothing in context of launching service today.


Did I say they won't fly ORH-DTW? Nope. I'm just saying that ATL would work, and no, I don't think a CR7 is a waste, nor is it unprecedented. DL does seem to break the mold a bit. You also realize that the only airport DL flies to in New England (year round) that DOES NOT have ATL is BGR, right? BTV, PWM, BOS, PVD, BDL, and MHT ALL see ATL flights. I'm not saying they're going to do it, in fact I've posted links in this exact thread indicating that ORH-DTW would be the route flown. I'm making a case for ATL also, not saying that it will definitely be ATL over DTW, or ATL and DTW together. But you are only partially correct, I've named quite a few smaller communities that still see XXX-ATL flights. Also, chill with the tone, I didn't cop an attitude, you don't need to either.

And if you really want to get into what's unprecedented and what isn't, ORH having two new air service announcements by two different airlines in the same year is what's really unprecedented here.
 
NEAvGuy
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:28 pm

Can confirm from reliable sources that it will be Delta to DTW.
 
NEAvGuy
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:28 pm

Can confirm from reliable sources that it will be Delta to DTW.
 
flymia
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:57 pm

Interesting. I will be using ORH as a "gateway" to Maine next week. FLL-ORH. I usually just fly into BOS because fares to Bangor and Portland are insane. This time Boston was pretty expensive too. JetBlue had very competitive fares to ORH, $100 less per-person than others, including WN and NK.

Makes me wonder how well B6 could be doing with such lower fares.
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WNflyer1523
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:12 pm

Nice to hear this for ORH. Hopefully ISP would get DL soon!
 
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compensateme
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:28 pm

evank516 wrote:
compensateme wrote:
evank516 wrote:

You're partially correct. ELM has seasonal ATL service, so that leaves ITH, BGM, BGR, ERI, and SCE. SWF previously had ATL service as did BGM. BGR only has JFK and LGA. PWM, MHT (most of the time), HPN, BTV, ABE, and AVP all have ATL flights. HPN may be a stretch to say smaller NE Communities because they're still part of the large NY Metro Area. It also matters what you define as smaller NE Communities. I'm not saying it won't be DTW, I'm just saying ATL would be just as beneficial. It's still 7 communities with ATL flights vs 6 that don't.


Based on your argument, every single market in this country is best served via ATL. But the economics don’t always work out, which is why there’s numerous communities in the Midwest and Northeast that maintain service to only to DTW, nearly all smaller communities utilizing 50-sweat jets, often subsidized/shared risk. ORH follows this pattern. Ultimately, it’s too far for DL to operate a CRJ into ATL (per its self imposed rule) and there’s no way they’re going to use a two-cabin regional jet to ATL (would be unprecedented and a total waste of resources for a limited fleet).

Instead of arguing that point, you choose to split hairs telling me I’m “partially correct” because DL operates ELM-ATL a whopping two weeks a year, and markets like SCE had service to ATL a decade ago, heck ORH had service there nearly two decades ago. Guess what? Welcome to 2018!!! These mean nothing in context of launching service today.


Did I say they won't fly ORH-DTW? Nope. I'm just saying that ATL would work, and no, I don't think a CR7 is a waste, nor is it unprecedented. DL does seem to break the mold a bit. You also realize that the only airport DL flies to in New England (year round) that DOES NOT have ATL is BGR, right? BTV, PWM, BOS, PVD, BDL, and MHT ALL see ATL flights. I'm not saying they're going to do it, in fact I've posted links in this exact thread indicating that ORH-DTW would be the route flown. I'm making a case for ATL also, not saying that it will definitely be ATL over DTW, or ATL and DTW together. But you are only partially correct, I've named quite a few smaller communities that still see XXX-ATL flights. Also, chill with the tone, I didn't cop an attitude, you don't need to either.

And if you really want to get into what's unprecedented and what isn't, ORH having two new air service announcements by two different airlines in the same year is what's really unprecedented here.


The airport’s tossing large subsidies to B6, AA and now (probably) DL. Additionally, all three airlines are likely trying to establish goodwill with MassPort. Not really unprecedented. Kinda like arguing the same for PIT’s flights to PVG, LHR and (probably) DUB. Or like bringing three hot girls home and claiming you’re a lucky man... when you paid for their “time.”
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klm617
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:01 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
Nice to hear this for ORH. Hopefully ISP would get DL soon!



Yes ISP-DTW would be another great add.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
twaconnie
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:02 pm

A little history in the 1960's NE had 3 R/T's per day with DC-6B's LGA-ORH.
 
airbazar
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:27 pm

flymia wrote:
Interesting. I will be using ORH as a "gateway" to Maine next week. FLL-ORH. I usually just fly into BOS because fares to Bangor and Portland are insane. This time Boston was pretty expensive too. JetBlue had very competitive fares to ORH, $100 less per-person than others, including WN and NK.

You should let the folks in the New England thread know because there's one in particular that doesn't believe that BOS is used as an alternative to PWM, let alone ORH :lol:

compensateme wrote:
The airport’s tossing large subsidies to B6, AA and now (probably) DL. Additionally, all three airlines are likely trying to establish goodwill with MassPort. Not really unprecedented.

The B6 incentives expired 2 years ago I believe. In the first year the total value of incentives to B6 amounted to $1.1 million with a significant reduction in the second year. Massport has incentives for new airline service at ORH just like any airport in the world has them but I wouldn't call it "large" and they're certainly not indefinite.
I do agree that goodwill probably played a role with B6 but less so with the others. I think they are just trying to keep up with B6 in the New England area, especially Delta who has made it clear that they want to be the dominant carrier in the region. Notice for example that without B6 at MHT, every airline has been cutting service there while with B6 at PWM/PVD/BOS/BTV airline service there has been on the increase. So IMO what we're seeing with ORH is more about "keeping up with B6" and less about chasing subsidies or goodwill.
 
cloudboy
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:54 pm

From a logic standpoint, ORH makes a lot of sense. It is right in the center of a lot of the business centers. Many of the higher level execs of these companies live closer to Worcester than where the company headquarters are located. Fees and costs are low, you don't have ground delays because there are so few flights in and out. You are close enough that diversions are manageable, and you are close enough to Boston that you can tap them for crew.

So, by the JetBlue model, you tag it on to a fairly local flight that has a plane sitting there. For JFK they just need the earliest flight that will not be turned around again overnight, and one of the later morning departures. I expect Delta to do something like that. It gives them another option at fairly low cost, it is easier to grow there than at BOS, and it sits favorably with Massport. Remember that lots of airlines tried ORH in the past in the 80's and 90's, they just had problems with weather and props. I think a lot of those issues have been ironed out.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:04 pm

airbazar wrote:
The B6 incentives expired 2 years ago I believe. In the first year the total value of incentives to B6 amounted to $1.1 million with a significant reduction in the second year. Massport has incentives for new airline service at ORH just like any airport in the world has them but I wouldn't call it "large" and they're certainly not indefinite.


I wouldn’t doubt for a minute that there are underlying incentives or benefits at BOS that continue to outweigh their ORH losses that act as a continued incentive beyond what’s “official”. One could probably question the legality or ethics of it but a lot of those things get relaxed when it’s the same owner of both airports so massport has that goo for them to help.

None of these airlines are at ORH by choice, even B6 after all these years because neither loads nor fares have improved.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
SCQ83
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:22 pm

evank516 wrote:
Can you fly from BOS-PNS, VPS, TLH, DAB, MLB, GNV, or EYW nonstop? No? That's what I thought. You also realize that all of those domestic cities you mentioned can be achieved from PHL right? So now DL has to fight with AA to attract passengers. It's already been said that DL will probably fly to DTW, but geez dude, your bias towards it is skewing your facts. I have absolutely nothing against DTW, I was just there and it is quite a nice place to change planes, but you still need to understand that the sheer volume you can get out of ATL is just so much larger than DTW. It's also a matter of where the people want to go, and for someone who clearly does not live in the Northeast, the place where the majority of people want to go is Florida and other destinations in the Southeastern US, and not just Orlando, Miami, and Ft. Lauderdale. Heck you can add SRQ to that list because SRQ isn't served year round from BOS IIRC. In addition, 1 flight per day nonstops are not always ideal either, and many of the small to medium sized Florida destinations only have one flight per day. It's risky and if your flight gets cancelled you may be stuck connecting anyway, at least that's how I look at it. I fly to DAB regularly, and have for many years before B6 introduced JFK-DAB. I flew to DAB anyway despite the nonstop options to MCO. Some people just prefer the closer airport regardless.


I think in ORH DTW makes more sense than ATL. Considering those routes get subsidies and the interest of Massport is that those routes don't die. So now you have:

- JetBlue to JFK, MCO and FLL.

- AA to PHL that will connect mostly to Florida, Southeast and Europe

So what is the least served area? The Midwest, West Coast and Asia. DTW is a better alternative than ATL in order to create new routes that do not competing for the same small customer base. ATL would be competing in many markets with PHL or JetBlue.
 
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:30 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Can you fly from BOS-PNS, VPS, TLH, DAB, MLB, GNV, or EYW nonstop? No? That's what I thought. You also realize that all of those domestic cities you mentioned can be achieved from PHL right? So now DL has to fight with AA to attract passengers. It's already been said that DL will probably fly to DTW, but geez dude, your bias towards it is skewing your facts. I have absolutely nothing against DTW, I was just there and it is quite a nice place to change planes, but you still need to understand that the sheer volume you can get out of ATL is just so much larger than DTW. It's also a matter of where the people want to go, and for someone who clearly does not live in the Northeast, the place where the majority of people want to go is Florida and other destinations in the Southeastern US, and not just Orlando, Miami, and Ft. Lauderdale. Heck you can add SRQ to that list because SRQ isn't served year round from BOS IIRC. In addition, 1 flight per day nonstops are not always ideal either, and many of the small to medium sized Florida destinations only have one flight per day. It's risky and if your flight gets cancelled you may be stuck connecting anyway, at least that's how I look at it. I fly to DAB regularly, and have for many years before B6 introduced JFK-DAB. I flew to DAB anyway despite the nonstop options to MCO. Some people just prefer the closer airport regardless.


I think in ORH DTW makes more sense than ATL. Considering those routes get subsidies and the interest of Massport is that those routes don't die. So now you have:

- JetBlue to JFK, MCO and FLL.

- AA to PHL that will connect mostly to Florida, Southeast and Europe

So what is the least served area? The Midwest, West Coast and Asia. DTW is a better alternative than ATL in order to create new routes that do not competing for the same small customer base. ATL would be competing in many markets with PHL or JetBlue.


Oh It'll be DTW without a doubt. I'm thinking more of, where does most of the ORH Cachement want to fly? Plus I'm not really sure if people would fly to DTW to connect to LAX when they have Mint available in BOS. Granted DL has first class on flights out of DTW, but Mint is what makes me wonder, granted it's not on all West Coast flights yet either, and there are just some people who want to fly out of their local airport because it's easier. I get that one.
 
airbazar
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:43 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
airbazar wrote:
The B6 incentives expired 2 years ago I believe. In the first year the total value of incentives to B6 amounted to $1.1 million with a significant reduction in the second year. Massport has incentives for new airline service at ORH just like any airport in the world has them but I wouldn't call it "large" and they're certainly not indefinite.


I wouldn’t doubt for a minute that there are underlying incentives or benefits at BOS that continue to outweigh their ORH losses that act as a continued incentive beyond what’s “official”. One could probably question the legality or ethics of it but a lot of those things get relaxed when it’s the same owner of both airports so massport has that goo for them to help.

None of these airlines are at ORH by choice, even B6 after all these years because neither loads nor fares have improved.


Conspiracy theories can be fun sometimes to read about but I don't usually buy into them.
The incentives available are the same for every airline in the world that wants to serve BOS or ORH.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:03 pm

airbazar wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
airbazar wrote:
The B6 incentives expired 2 years ago I believe. In the first year the total value of incentives to B6 amounted to $1.1 million with a significant reduction in the second year. Massport has incentives for new airline service at ORH just like any airport in the world has them but I wouldn't call it "large" and they're certainly not indefinite.


I wouldn’t doubt for a minute that there are underlying incentives or benefits at BOS that continue to outweigh their ORH losses that act as a continued incentive beyond what’s “official”. One could probably question the legality or ethics of it but a lot of those things get relaxed when it’s the same owner of both airports so massport has that goo for them to help.

None of these airlines are at ORH by choice, even B6 after all these years because neither loads nor fares have improved.


Conspiracy theories can be fun sometimes to read about but I don't usually buy into them.
The incentives available are the same for every airline in the world that wants to serve BOS or ORH.


I suppose American thought a 1x daily 9am turn made good business sense.

Every major terminal improvement or gate addition (moving WN out of A) was coincidentally timed with said airline adding service at ORH, not one, not twice, but 4 times now (counting B6 JFK times with the C/E connector separate from the previous C improvements around when they first started). I'm just curious what the "escape clause" is like
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:42 pm

cloudboy wrote:
From a logic standpoint, ORH makes a lot of sense. It is right in the center of a lot of the business centers. Many of the higher level execs of these companies live closer to Worcester than where the company headquarters are located. Fees and costs are low, you don't have ground delays because there are so few flights in and out. You are close enough that diversions are manageable, and you are close enough to Boston that you can tap them for crew.

So, by the JetBlue model, you tag it on to a fairly local flight that has a plane sitting there. For JFK they just need the earliest flight that will not be turned around again overnight, and one of the later morning departures. I expect Delta to do something like that. It gives them another option at fairly low cost, it is easier to grow there than at BOS, and it sits favorably with Massport. Remember that lots of airlines tried ORH in the past in the 80's and 90's, they just had problems with weather and props. I think a lot of those issues have been ironed out.

Yes, from a logical standpoint. From a real world standpoint. ORH still does have weather challenges (read above), it is till a pain in the ass to get to from a ground transport point of view, has next to no choice when it comes to itinerary, and has no fall backs if/when things go wrong.

It has a somewhat better geographic position / catchment than MHT does, but other than that, it's main advantage is that it's owned by Massport and Massport is willing/able to lean on airlines to operate from ORH.
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klm617
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:08 pm

evank516 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Can you fly from BOS-PNS, VPS, TLH, DAB, MLB, GNV, or EYW nonstop? No? That's what I thought. You also realize that all of those domestic cities you mentioned can be achieved from PHL right? So now DL has to fight with AA to attract passengers. It's already been said that DL will probably fly to DTW, but geez dude, your bias towards it is skewing your facts. I have absolutely nothing against DTW, I was just there and it is quite a nice place to change planes, but you still need to understand that the sheer volume you can get out of ATL is just so much larger than DTW. It's also a matter of where the people want to go, and for someone who clearly does not live in the Northeast, the place where the majority of people want to go is Florida and other destinations in the Southeastern US, and not just Orlando, Miami, and Ft. Lauderdale. Heck you can add SRQ to that list because SRQ isn't served year round from BOS IIRC. In addition, 1 flight per day nonstops are not always ideal either, and many of the small to medium sized Florida destinations only have one flight per day. It's risky and if your flight gets cancelled you may be stuck connecting anyway, at least that's how I look at it. I fly to DAB regularly, and have for many years before B6 introduced JFK-DAB. I flew to DAB anyway despite the nonstop options to MCO. Some people just prefer the closer airport regardless.


I think in ORH DTW makes more sense than ATL. Considering those routes get subsidies and the interest of Massport is that those routes don't die. So now you have:

- JetBlue to JFK, MCO and FLL.

- AA to PHL that will connect mostly to Florida, Southeast and Europe

So what is the least served area? The Midwest, West Coast and Asia. DTW is a better alternative than ATL in order to create new routes that do not competing for the same small customer base. ATL would be competing in many markets with PHL or JetBlue.


Oh It'll be DTW without a doubt. I'm thinking more of, where does most of the ORH Cachement want to fly? Plus I'm not really sure if people would fly to DTW to connect to LAX when they have Mint available in BOS. Granted DL has first class on flights out of DTW, but Mint is what makes me wonder, granted it's not on all West Coast flights yet either, and there are just some people who want to fly out of their local airport because it's easier. I get that one.



You can fly B6 and AA all day long to Florida what more do you want.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:08 pm

evank516 wrote:
Oh It'll be DTW without a doubt. I'm thinking more of, where does most of the ORH Cachement want to fly? Plus I'm not really sure if people would fly to DTW to connect to LAX when they have Mint available in BOS. Granted DL has first class on flights out of DTW...


Only 16 of 157 seats are Mint. People flying Mint should put some value on their time so they'll be flying out of BOS, anyway, due to non-stops and frequency. 2X daily to DTW can open up some new 1-stop destinations for ORH but it can't compete with Monday's schedule of 18 non-stops across five carriers BOS-LAX this Monday.
 
cheapgreek
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:23 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
Nice to hear this for ORH. Hopefully ISP would get DL soon!


Glad for ORH and its increased service. It has a large catchment area, but has the road access been improved? Hoping for DL to start HVN-DTW, since AA is starting HVN-CLT. DTW would be doable but probably require a CRJ-700. Years back NW twice proposed HVN-DTW flights but the DC-9 and CRJ-200 would take serious weight restrictions.
 
flymia
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:42 pm

airbazar wrote:
flymia wrote:
Interesting. I will be using ORH as a "gateway" to Maine next week. FLL-ORH. I usually just fly into BOS because fares to Bangor and Portland are insane. This time Boston was pretty expensive too. JetBlue had very competitive fares to ORH, $100 less per-person than others, including WN and NK.

You should let the folks in the New England thread know because there's one in particular that doesn't believe that BOS is used as an alternative to PWM, let alone ORH :lol:
.


I am flying to Maine only in the summer. But I know people who have homes in Maine and even in the winter they use BOS. It is just so much cheaper than flying into PWM or Bangor. Sure that might be easier, not necessarily quicker depending on connection time. But the fares to Maine, especially in the summer are crazy high. I'll take the 3.5 hour drive to midcoast Maine. I use BOS and now ORH even for a spot north of Portland.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
NEAvGuy
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:44 pm

The route to the airport is still over local streets, but for most passengers in the catchment area, it is much shorter than the next alternative, is easy now that everyone uses GPS and is always predictable, unlike the ride to Logan, which can be 1 hour but is often much more. Judging by how many passengers come from outside the catchment area to use B6 and seem pleased with the choice, access is a factor that will always limit market share, but not a bar to future success if the service mix is there. It's slowly getting to that point.

Next on the wish list would be: a second daily B6 flight to JFK, AA to CLT, a B6 flight to TPA or RSW and DL to ATL. The results of the new AA and DL service will dictate what happens next.
 
cloudboy
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:58 pm

Especially with construction going on everywhere, it is becoming worse to drivce ot logan.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
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N717TW
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Re: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:01 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Call me a doubting Thomas I’m just highly skeptical that DL would do this add and fling RJs from DTW to ORH unless it’s to get something in return from MassPort at BOS.

I mean they’ve been cutting DCI routes like LIT TUL and CAK from DTW and stuff like FNT and BMI from MSP and we think they may start ORH? That competes with itself at BOS and MHT?

Dtw mht is down to 2x this winter and DL is suspending MHT ATL during deep winter.

We shall see though.


DL is really looking for more real estate in BOS from Massport and therefore has reason to help Massport (and Massport wants Worcester to be a "real" airport with "real service"). As for more real estate, its not just terminal gates in Terminal A, which they are getting. DL needs more parking space. Getting 5 gates will help but they still need RON parking. As it is, DL doesn't have enough parking, has been using all the space by the hanger and even parking in front of the Massport fire station; and has to jig their schedule around the lack of gates and overnight parking. an extra piece of info, although more rumor like, is that DL apparently wants itself and its partners to occupy more gates over in E so to make E too busy for others.

As to ORH itself and its ability to hold service: I admit its a hike, hard to get to and with such limited service, its never really going to be a choice for many travels (me most definitely included). However, Worcester is close enough to the western Boston suburbs (which by the way is where the leafy, monied suburbs of Boston are) that its a viable alternate to those too afraid of Logan. And God love 'em, there are a lot of people who don't like the traffic, the size and commotion of Logan. ORH is too far to be a real option for the super tony suburbs of Wellesley, Lexington and Concord, etc. But its close enough (30-40 min) to the towns along 495 that and not only do people live out there but a fair amount of business is out there too. Granted its not Boston or Cambridge or even the businesses along route 128, but there is a lot more than in, say, NH.
 
BatonOps
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:33 pm

compensateme wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
If they do DTW-ORH, they'll also do ATL-ORH. That's just how it works folks.


So that must be why DL’s flying 717 from ITH, ELM, etc. to ATL. Oh, and I read on a.net last week that DL informed ELM that in 2020, the 717 is being replaced with the A220.


ITH has never had 717 or any other service to ATL. ELM has service at Christmas time to ATL and that's on a CRJ-700 or -900.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:13 pm

BatonOps wrote:
compensateme wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
If they do DTW-ORH, they'll also do ATL-ORH. That's just how it works folks.


So that must be why DL’s flying 717 from ITH, ELM, etc. to ATL. Oh, and I read on a.net last week that DL informed ELM that in 2020, the 717 is being replaced with the A220.


ITH has never had 717 or any other service to ATL. ELM has service at Christmas time to ATL and that's on a CRJ-700 or -900.


If you read the exchange, you’ll notice it was sarcasm ;).
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CLTDAL
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:14 pm

I don't understand why my post was locked. I was the first to google Worcester (ORH) airport and see that an announcement was going to be made??? Anyways....Worcester only has 1 JetBridge hooked up to the terminal....it has the ability to Connect 3 more Jetbridges to the Terminal. Plus, they have 2 gates in the commuter section for smaller regional jets. B6 uses a JetBridge. I bet they add on the remainder (3) JetBridges and allow DL to come into ORH with a 319/717 to BOTH DTW and ATL. Also with AA doing so well on their PHL route, I can see them upgauging to a larger aircraft....319. It would be AWESOME if AA did ORH-CLT too!!!!
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:50 pm

So it's official, DTW-ORH
Last edited by Midwestindy on Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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evank516
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:50 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
So it looks like DTW-ORH


http://www.telegram.com/news/20180828/d ... t-in-plans
 
B757rocket
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:53 pm

 
evank516
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:55 pm

B757rocket wrote:


Welcome back to Woostah Delta! Too bad they have to wait until next August though.
 
NEAvGuy
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:03 pm

OK, time for the moderator to take down the "Unconfirmed" label on the title of this topic. It was not part of the title of the topic when I posted it five days ago because I had already confirmed the announcement through reliable sources.

Now, what about the announcement? The service doesn't start for a YEAR! No information on number of flights, equipment, schedule or fares. It's interesting to see the same Massport folks and politicians there congratulating themselves without even knowing what service is being offered. They did it at the AA press conference, only to learn that the initial service offering was a disaster. It took a lot of communication with AA to get them to understand that they had laid an egg. Kudos to AA for listening and fixing the schedule and fares. Welcome to ORH, Delta,, and make sure you learn from AA's mistake.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:08 pm

That's what happens when airlines are super excited and motivated to start the service....
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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klm617
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:25 pm

B757rocket wrote:



Delta to Detroit sounds great to me too. Great add for ORH and DTW congrats !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
727LOVER
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:31 pm

I'm not on Instagram....

1. When does it start?
2. How many daily flights?
3. What equipment?
4. What regional carrier?...if applicable
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:48 pm

NEAvGuy wrote:
OK, time for the moderator to take down the "Unconfirmed" label on the title of this topic. It was not part of the title of the topic when I posted it five days ago because I had already confirmed the announcement through reliable sources.

In my book, "reliable" yet unnamed sources don't count and I'm OK with the previous edit (which was not suggested by me).

In any case, any one of us can now use the triangle icon on top of each and every post to ask the moderators to change the title, because they don't read each and every post.

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evank516
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Re: Unconfirmed: Delta to Start Service at ORH

Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:04 pm

727LOVER wrote:
I'm not on Instagram....

1. When does it start?
2. How many daily flights?
3. What equipment?
4. What regional carrier?...if applicable


1. August 2019
2. Don't think it said, but probably 2
3. Probably CRJ-200
5. Up to Delta

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