ewt340
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:28 am

I forgot about the neo project in 2025. Maybe Airbus would include conversion deals for airlines to change their engines after 2025.
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:16 am

mintxwb wrote:
jimdisme wrote:
seems like the recent ACAP of A350 has been updated showing payload-range charts for 280t and 316t models (as opposed to WV000).

Image


So the green line on the A359 chart is ULR version?

That is correct. The extra fuel capacity extends the line. The same is shown on the 777LR curve with the aux tanks

With the A350-1000 it is the opposite it carry 350+ passengers and the fuel tank is already full. It needs a bigger fuel tank to make the trip. Even bigger than the 900ULR capacity.


You can see the ULR doesn't really provide much. You have to fit the aircraft with less than 240 passengers to be able to use the extra fuel capacity. Up to 8500nm there is no point buying the ULR. Airlines wanted the ULR for the higher 280T MTOW more than the increased fuel capacity. Now that the standard A350-900 comes at 280T we probably wont see any new ULR orders.
 
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flee
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:38 am

IIRC, Airbus said that the ULR is no big deal - they just activated the tanks and plumbing of the -1000 so that additional fuel capacity can be provided. If an airline customer does not want to do ULR anymore, it can just deactivate them. They did not build a special version like the A345. So there was little development cost for the ULR.
 
Pcoder
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:11 am

Agrajag wrote:
The uncle of my wife's best friend's auntie works at the company that makes the little aeroplane models on plinths. They just received a rush order for A350s in QF colours. Order to be delivered next week. Just sayin'!

Happy Weekend everyone! :bouncy:


It's always hard to tell with some of these rumours as it only take one person hearing something wrong for the story to take a completely different angle.

Although Qantas is a well known media tart (ala dreamliner delivery), so I very much see a major media event for the announcement for project sunrise.
 
RickNRoll
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:06 am

Even that story is true it could be Airbus sales ordering them to hand over to QANTAS staff as a gift.
 
EBT
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:11 am

Pcoder wrote:
Agrajag wrote:
The uncle of my wife's best friend's auntie works at the company that makes the little aeroplane models on plinths. They just received a rush order for A350s in QF colours. Order to be delivered next week. Just sayin'!

Happy Weekend everyone! :bouncy:


It's always hard to tell with some of these rumours as it only take one person hearing something wrong for the story to take a completely different angle.

Although Qantas is a well known media tart (ala dreamliner delivery), so I very much see a major media event for the announcement for project sunrise.


Alan Joyce is on record saying they expect "best and final offers" back from both manufacturers in August, after which they will move forward with negotiating a successful deal. Both manufacturers have aircraft that meet the requirements, depending on configuration, so then it will come down to who is more willing to bend over backwards to secure the deal. Expect the order in Q4, first delivery 2022 and EIS on Sunrise routes in 2023.
 
Pcoder
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:12 am

RickNRoll wrote:
Even that story is true it could be Airbus sales ordering them to hand over to QANTAS staff as a gift.


Yeah I could see that. I wouldn't be surprised if Qantas spend a heap to promote their decision. It won't be a late Friday press release, but a major PR party.
 
Pcoder
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:22 am

EBT wrote:
Pcoder wrote:
Agrajag wrote:
The uncle of my wife's best friend's auntie works at the company that makes the little aeroplane models on plinths. They just received a rush order for A350s in QF colours. Order to be delivered next week. Just sayin'!

Happy Weekend everyone! :bouncy:


It's always hard to tell with some of these rumours as it only take one person hearing something wrong for the story to take a completely different angle.

Although Qantas is a well known media tart (ala dreamliner delivery), so I very much see a major media event for the announcement for project sunrise.


Alan Joyce is on record saying they expect "best and final offers" back from both manufacturers in August, after which they will move forward with negotiating a successful deal. Both manufacturers have aircraft that meet the requirements, depending on configuration, so then it will come down to who is more willing to bend over backwards to secure the deal. Expect the order in Q4, first delivery 2022 and EIS on Sunrise routes in 2023.


Could also be the case that with the rumoured alterations to the EK 777X orders and the lack of interest from other airlines, that the 777-8 might be shelved for the time being and Boeing might have already contacted Qantas about it and said that it couldn't produce the 777-8 by 2022. We'll just have to wait and see what happens next.
 
h1fl1er
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:05 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
You can see the ULR doesn't really provide much. You have to fit the aircraft with less than 240 passengers to be able to use the extra fuel capacity. Up to 8500nm there is no point buying the ULR. Airlines wanted the ULR for the higher 280T MTOW more than the increased fuel capacity. Now that the standard A350-900 comes at 280T we probably wont see any new ULR orders.


airlineS? far as I recall the plane was effectively made for sq. nobody else has ordered nor will order.
 
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flee
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:15 pm

h1fl1er wrote:
airlineS? far as I recall the plane was effectively made for sq. nobody else has ordered nor will order.

Yes, it showed that Airbus is prepared to meet customer's requirements, even if it is for only 7 frames. Does that mean that it will try harder to meet Qantas' requirements?
 
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Polot
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:18 pm

flee wrote:
h1fl1er wrote:
airlineS? far as I recall the plane was effectively made for sq. nobody else has ordered nor will order.

Yes, it showed that Airbus is prepared to meet customer's requirements, even if it is for only 7 frames. Does that mean that it will try harder to meet Qantas' requirements?

It all depends on how much it costs to meet the customer’s requirements. There is a limit where Airbus (or Boeing) will only move forward if there is greater market appeal than just 7-12 or whatever frames, or improvements can be rolled back into other frames with beneficial (ie appealing) results.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:22 pm

RJMAZ wrote:
mintxwb wrote:
jimdisme wrote:
seems like the recent ACAP of A350 has been updated showing payload-range charts for 280t and 316t models (as opposed to WV000).

Image


So the green line on the A359 chart is ULR version?

That is correct. The extra fuel capacity extends the line. The same is shown on the 777LR curve with the aux tanks

With the A350-1000 it is the opposite it carry 350+ passengers and the fuel tank is already full. It needs a bigger fuel tank to make the trip. Even bigger than the 900ULR capacity.


You can see the ULR doesn't really provide much. You have to fit the aircraft with less than 240 passengers to be able to use the extra fuel capacity. Up to 8500nm there is no point buying the ULR. Airlines wanted the ULR for the higher 280T MTOW more than the increased fuel capacity. Now that the standard A350-900 comes at 280T we probably wont see any new ULR orders.


The tanks on the A350-1000 with 159,000 l should not be at the limit. The A350-900 ULR offers 165,000 l, so an A350-1000 LR should be at least able to provide that.
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:42 am

mjoelnir wrote:
The tanks on the A350-1000 with 159,000 l should not be at the limit. The A350-900 ULR offers 165,000 l, so an A350-1000 LR should be at least able to provide that.

If you look at the second kink point on the A350-900 you can see the extra 26,000litres gained 2200nm

An extra 6,000litres in the A350-1000 would then move the second kink a maximum of 500nm. The second kink on the A350-1000 will then move from 8500nm to at most 9000nm. To fly beyond this point it is in the zone where payload has to be massively reduced.

As a few other members have pointed out the A350-1000 needs a minimum of 170,000litres to do Sydney to London. 175,000litres would be comfortable and that would still allows for 25T of payload based on the ACAP and a 319T MTOW.
 
h1fl1er
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:21 am

RJMAZ wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
The tanks on the A350-1000 with 159,000 l should not be at the limit. The A350-900 ULR offers 165,000 l, so an A350-1000 LR should be at least able to provide that.

If you look at the second kink point on the A350-900 you can see the extra 26,000litres gained 2200nm

An extra 6,000litres in the A350-1000 would then move the second kink a maximum of 500nm. The second kink on the A350-1000 will then move from 8500nm to at most 9000nm. To fly beyond this point it is in the zone where payload has to be massively reduced.

As a few other members have pointed out the A350-1000 needs a minimum of 170,000litres to do Sydney to London. 175,000litres would be comfortable and that would still allows for 25T of payload based on the ACAP and a 319T MTOW.


I had them at 240 or so pax at 9500nm. nominal range 8400, real say an hour short of that maybe 8000 @ 316t. they get the hour back by losing the 65 pax to 300. 300 @ 8400. plane appears from the PR chart to gain 700nm per 10t payload/fuel swap or .7nm/t. we need 1100 nm. shave 3t off the cargo hold. adds 210nm. upgauged the plane to 319t ads 210nm more. at 8820 now. lightweight cabin to save a few tons (must do). 200 more nm. 9020. lose 60 pax to get 420nm. 240 at 9440 with a number of assumptions.

I thought they would hit 320t tbh to get there. I think 230 pax for this bird is realistic. note that I didn't factor in insects. if nominal range is closer to reality then there's wiggle room around that number.
 
chiki
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:57 pm

Over to Airbus, from Boeing PAS presentation Image

Sent from my SM-J415F using Tapatalk
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:07 pm

chiki wrote:
Over to Airbus, from Boeing PAS presentation Image

Sent from my SM-J415F using Tapatalk

10000nm!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Image
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:33 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
10000nm!!!


Is that what they're claiming? If so, it must mean both a MTOW increase and additional fuel capacity.
 
AC77X
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:52 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
chiki wrote:
Over to Airbus, from Boeing PAS presentation Image

Sent from my SM-J415F using Tapatalk

10000nm!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If that is what they are claiming, that's fantastic!
 
h1fl1er
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:08 pm

seabosdca wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
10000nm!!!


Is that what they're claiming? If so, it must mean both a MTOW increase and additional fuel capacity.


they can't be using Airbus's range. or they've fallen off the wagon and gone back to pie in sky range estimates.

2400km is like 1300nm.

either that or the 778 was fuel-limited as I asked in my very first post. If it was then they're probably using the 8400 figure, not 8700 and they're now at 9700. lord only knows what payload but they're claiming that many tons additional at that range?

if these things are within the realm of the plausible then sunrise rfp can be declared over. and hello akl-lhr

I know the -8 is a deriv of the W, but I asked in my first post, wait isn't this bird fuel limited as 77L was, when it was listing 8555nm range? does anyone know?
Last edited by h1fl1er on Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:10 pm

That is some serious distance if those numbers are true.
 
Mrakula
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:20 pm

fantastic? Depends what range Boeing estmate for A350-1000 :-)
 
tommy1808
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:21 pm

h1fl1er wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
10000nm!!!


Is that what they're claiming? If so, it must mean both a MTOW increase and additional fuel capacity.


they can't be using Airbus's range


I would read it as "carries up to 17 ton more than the A350, and flies (a full cabin) 2400km further than the 777-9."

Best regards
Thomas
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PixelPilot
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:23 pm

Mrakula wrote:
fantastic? Depends what range Boeing estmate for A350-1000 :-)


If similar as to what self called "specialist" in this thread are saying then pretty awesome indeed :duck: :duck: ;)
 
Mrakula
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:55 pm

PixelPilot wrote:
Mrakula wrote:
fantastic? Depends what range Boeing estmate for A350-1000 :-)


If similar as to what self called "specialist" in this thread are saying then pretty awesome indeed :duck: :duck: ;)


Boeing claims on website 13500 km range for 777-9 with 426 pax on the slide A350-1000 has equal range with 53 pax less, that means Boeing claims 15900km (website 16090km) range for 777-8 with same pax on board?

What configuration and ranges are they compare?

Airbus on website claims 16100km for A350-1000 capacity 350-410.

Meaningles marketing slide.

Cheers:-)
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:07 pm

Mrakula wrote:
PixelPilot wrote:
Mrakula wrote:
fantastic? Depends what range Boeing estmate for A350-1000 :-)


If similar as to what self called "specialist" in this thread are saying then pretty awesome indeed :duck: :duck: ;)


Boeing claims on website 13500 km range for 777-9 with 426 pax on the slide A350-1000 has equal range with 53 pax less, that means Boeing claims 15900km (website 16090km) range for 777-8 with same pax on board?

What configuration and ranges are they compare?

Airbus on website claims 16100km for A350-1000 capacity 350-410.

Meaningles marketing slide.

Cheers:-)


Looks like 17T more cargo and even if range is same it's still impressive.
Thou I agree, till we get actual numbers it's all marketing blah blah
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:13 pm

I expect we can assume a few things about a Boeing claim of this nature:

- the 17 t difference involves similar weight of cabin furnishings, catering, etc. (which may or may not be appropriate depending on products installed)
- the A350-1000 involved is the 316 t version, when we know the 319 t version will make up 3 t or ~250 nm of the deficit
- mission rules may be selected to prevent the A350-1000 from lifting even 316 t off the ground
- this takes into account all improvements Boeing has dreamt up for Project Sunrise, but none of Airbus's (whether MTOW, fuel capacity, or anything else)

Even with all those caveats, however we parse it, this seems like a claim for the 777-8 that is a good deal more ambitious than anything we've heard before. It will be fascinating to see exactly what Boeing is claiming, and what changed, as more information comes out. I continue to think it must reflect at least a MTOW increase and very likely also some form of fuel capacity increase (whether an aux tank or just more complete use of existing space, who knows).
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:42 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I expect we can assume a few things about a Boeing claim of this nature:

- the 17 t difference involves similar weight of cabin furnishings, catering, etc. (which may or may not be appropriate depending on products installed)
- the A350-1000 involved is the 316 t version, when we know the 319 t version will make up 3 t or ~250 nm of the deficit
- mission rules may be selected to prevent the A350-1000 from lifting even 316 t off the ground
- this takes into account all improvements Boeing has dreamt up for Project Sunrise, but none of Airbus's (whether MTOW, fuel capacity, or anything else)

Even with all those caveats, however we parse it, this seems like a claim for the 777-8 that is a good deal more ambitious than anything we've heard before. It will be fascinating to see exactly what Boeing is claiming, and what changed, as more information comes out. I continue to think it must reflect at least a MTOW increase and very likely also some form of fuel capacity increase (whether an aux tank or just more complete use of existing space, who knows).


I was about to write exactly the same about the assumptions in Boeing's claims, but I would add that in claiming "family commonality and flexibility" between the 778 and 779, Boeing has conveniently not mentioned the extensive "family commonality and flexibility" between the A35K and not only the A359, but also the rest of the A3** models.
 
Pcoder
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:37 am

These slides are made by the marketing department, so they can be out of date or comparing completely different things.

The problem with the above power point is that a lot of facts and figures are missing, we don't know which version of the a35k they are comparing (308t, 316t or the 319t) and whether they are also comparing to the 777-9.

I'd treat these slides with a bit of hesitation until figures like range, empty weight and MTOW are given.
 
pabloeing
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:27 pm

¿Some new news about proyect sunrise?
 
AC77X
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:30 pm

pabloeing wrote:
¿Some new news about proyect sunrise?

Not from what I know of. They are taking an amazingly long time, incase someone hasn't noticed...
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:21 pm

AC77X wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
¿Some new news about proyect sunrise?

Not from what I know of. They are taking an amazingly long time, incase someone hasn't noticed...


I always expected something would be announced when they present their full year results in August. If it's not then, it'll be later in the year.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:21 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
AC77X wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
¿Some new news about proyect sunrise?

Not from what I know of. They are taking an amazingly long time, incase someone hasn't noticed...


I always expected something would be announced when they present their full year results in August. If it's not then, it'll be later in the year.


It won't be August, hopefully the end of the year but subject to negotiations with the pilots union.

At the moment the pilots' contract does not permit such extended duties so Qantas are trying to re-negotiate the duty limits. There's no point going ahead if you don't have pilots to fly the plane.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
HP69
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:08 pm

Is it a possibility that QF could start SYD-IAD/BOS in addition to JFK nonstop?
 
Gemuser
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:18 am

HP69 wrote:
Is it a possibility that QF could start SYD-IAD/BOS in addition to JFK nonstop?

In aviation, "never say never" but it seems unlikely. NYC is a special case with both high business demand & good lesiure demand from Australia, I really doubt either BOS or IAD has suffcient demand to support such long routes. Also there are numerous connencting ports, at least to BOS that would dampen deman for a non stop, .

Gemuser
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:29 am

Has been discussed in other, arguably more relevant, threads that the first flight of the 777-9X has been delayed until 2020 due to the unresolved engine issue. Boeing is still saying EIS will occur in 2020, though I tend to share Leeham's view in the article below that 2021 seems more likely. One has to wonder if this delay will play into QF's decision-making for Project Sunrise...

https://leehamnews.com/2019/07/24/boein ... confirmed/
 
Pcoder
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:49 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
Has been discussed in other, arguably more relevant, threads that the first flight of the 777-9X has been delayed until 2020 due to the unresolved engine issue. Boeing is still saying EIS will occur in 2020, though I tend to share Leeham's view in the article below that 2021 seems more likely. One has to wonder if this delay will play into QF's decision-making for Project Sunrise...

https://leehamnews.com/2019/07/24/boein ... confirmed/


It probably will depend on what Emirates is planning with its adjustment to it 777X order. No airline out of the ME3 has ordered the 777-8 since July 2014.

We know that the 8 ordered by Etihad are most likely canned, the order of 10 by Qatar is too small for Boeing to attempt anything (The 777-8 will require a lot more effort than the B747-400ER). The 777-8 could easily be on schedule for Sunrise still but it would probably require a lot of resources from Boeing at a time it doesn't have the ability to give them.
 
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:57 am

Polot wrote:
flee wrote:
h1fl1er wrote:
airlineS? far as I recall the plane was effectively made for sq. nobody else has ordered nor will order.

Yes, it showed that Airbus is prepared to meet customer's requirements, even if it is for only 7 frames. Does that mean that it will try harder to meet Qantas' requirements?

It all depends on how much it costs to meet the customer’s requirements. There is a limit where Airbus (or Boeing) will only move forward if there is greater market appeal than just 7-12 or whatever frames, or improvements can be rolled back into other frames with beneficial (ie appealing) results.


How much did it cost Boeing to shorten the 707-100 to create a bespoke variant specially for Qantas back in the 1950's? Did anyone else order the Qantas version?
 
Gemuser
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:44 am

Boeing74741R wrote:
Polot wrote:
flee wrote:
Yes, it showed that Airbus is prepared to meet customer's requirements, even if it is for only 7 frames. Does that mean that it will try harder to meet Qantas' requirements?

It all depends on how much it costs to meet the customer’s requirements. There is a limit where Airbus (or Boeing) will only move forward if there is greater market appeal than just 7-12 or whatever frames, or improvements can be rolled back into other frames with beneficial (ie appealing) results.


How much did it cost Boeing to shorten the 707-100 to create a bespoke variant specially for Qantas back in the 1950's? Did anyone else order the Qantas version?

Nothing, in practise! The short body the B707-138 uses was the orginal body sold by Boeing for the B707-120 model. QF ordered that version. However every other customer, at that time, converted to the long body version with its reduced range. That reduction in range was not acceptable to QF so Boeing delivered the orginally contracted aircraft.

Gemuser
 
olle
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:41 pm

So does this men that the GE is equal, better or worse then the RR XWB for 350-1000?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:07 pm

olle wrote:
So does this men that the GE is equal, better or worse then the RR XWB for 350-1000?

I suspect QF at least wants 779 in flight data. This is a huge order. I'd bet QF is buying far more aircraft (A380 replacement and other long haul).

We shall see.

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zeke
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:58 pm

lightsaber wrote:
olle wrote:
So does this men that the GE is equal, better or worse then the RR XWB for 350-1000?

I suspect QF at least wants 779 in flight data. This is a huge order. I'd bet QF is buying far more aircraft (A380 replacement and other long haul).

We shall see.

Lightsaber


This is not a huge order. And Alan Joyce has also said it is independent of other fleet plans.

These ULR aircraft are for specific ULR routes.
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VV
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:43 pm

It is likely 777-8 would not be available in 2022.

Either Qantas delays the targeted Project Sunrise debut by two years or they order something else like A350.
 
RJMAZ
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:54 am

Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:54 am

VV wrote:
Either Qantas delays the targeted Project Sunrise debut by two years

The 777-8 is two years behind schedule??
 
VV
Posts: 789
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:04 am

RJMAZ wrote:
VV wrote:
Either Qantas delays the targeted Project Sunrise debut by two years

The 777-8 is two years behind schedule??


No, but if the 777-8 entered into service in 2022 it would not be with Qantas first.

If it is delayed by, say one year then Qantas might have to push the Project Sunrise further if they want the 777-8.

Either they decide to take another aircraft or they need to postpone the Project until 2024 or so.

I haven't heard about 777-8 firm configuration so far.
 
SQ317
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:16 pm

Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:11 pm

VV wrote:
RJMAZ wrote:
VV wrote:
Either Qantas delays the targeted Project Sunrise debut by two years

The 777-8 is two years behind schedule??


No, but if the 777-8 entered into service in 2022 it would not be with Qantas first.

If it is delayed by, say one year then Qantas might have to push the Project Sunrise further if they want the 777-8.

Either they decide to take another aircraft or they need to postpone the Project until 2024 or so.

I haven't heard about 777-8 firm configuration so far.


Which then brings you perilously close to the rumoured Ultrafan A350 in ~2025..
 
VV
Posts: 789
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Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:47 pm

What is the likelihood the decision on the Project Sunrise will be postponed by at least one year?
 
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Revelation
Posts: 20957
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:03 pm

SQ317 wrote:
Which then brings you perilously close to the rumoured Ultrafan A350 in ~2025..

Given the terrible run of form of PW, GE and RR, I'm not sure I'd count on a significantly new engine getting it all right the first time.
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jfk777
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:15 pm

Boeing, with all their 737 Max issues can't lose this order, they need the boost for the 777-8/9x program. Qantas is ordering not only for the only for Project Sunrise, it is also ordering for the next 20 years of its long haul fleet. More 787-9 and what replaces A380 are major considerations. 777-9 for Sydney & Melbourne to LAX are obvious. 777-9 to DFW from Sydney plus 787-9 from Brisbane and Melbourne should happen. JFK nonstop from Kingsford Smith. Maybe the time for Phoenix to Sydney has arrived. So many possibilities it could be a problem of too many choices but the planes have to be ordered and routes launched, Sydney to LHR is not the only consideration.
 
moa999
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:54 pm

The A380s are just commencing an expensive refurb process, so will be flying with QF for another 8-10yrs.

So while Sunrise will put the manufacturer in the box seat for those eventual replacement aircraft, it's by no means guaranteed, a lot can change in this time

By then you've definitely got a 350neo and possibly a 777xneo so you'd likely use the more efficient aircraft on the longer routes with less penalties, and cascade the Sunrise aircraft to the LAX routes.
 
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seabosdca
Posts: 6468
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: Updated: Qantas saying it is almost ready to select Project Sunrise aircraft

Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:49 pm

zeke wrote:
And Alan Joyce has also said it is independent of other fleet plans.


Sometimes CEOs have to say silly things for strategic reasons. :liar: That is just such a silly thing. Of course an order of 10 ULH widebody aircraft will have an impact on the overall fleet plan of an airline that operates 55 widebody aircraft, only 20 of which are currently ~ULH capable.

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