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4engines4lnghll
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Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:33 pm

I know this discussion has been discussed before, but I know Air Canada Rouge has started flights to Bucharest and wondering if anyone knows how the loads have been. With the announce of AA starting Dubrovnik is there a something new on the horizon for carriers to start countries that don't/used to see service to the US/Asia/South America
4engines4lnghll
 
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MalcolmInTheMoM
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Re: Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Thu Aug 23, 2018 7:38 pm

I thought the future was Baltia? :spin:
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:53 pm

You can go back to the 2005-2007 Delta expansion that added Kiev, Bucharest and Budapest (among other European and African destinations). Routes that generate lower-than-average PRASM die. Marginal routes get cut in fuel price spikes. From the U.S., really all of Eastern Europe is too far for a 757 so a 767-300 is the smallest aircraft. Without near-daily service and year-round service you won't get much business traffic and it will rely on price-sensitive/less travel-time sensitive leisure travelers. That's why a lot of this traffic gets routed over FRA/AMS/CDG.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:15 pm

A good portion of Eastern Europe TATL traffic is also operated by LOT Polish Airlines, not only from Warsaw but from several other cities as well. They're using Dreamliners on those routes. I expect them to become a rather big player on this market.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:27 pm

O&D only summer there is lots of demand. Not in summer very hard to support.

Even Berlin suffers with year round. Summer easy fill.
 
klm617
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Re: Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:23 pm

DTW-WAW should be way up there and hopefully soon will be added.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:35 pm

I don’t think the 757 has the range from the US (East Coast) to a lot of Eastern Europe, they’d need something bigger and bigger means more seats need to be filled.

I think OK had flights from PRG-JFK, maybe with A310-300. But that route is gone and those a/c sold.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
klwright69
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Re: Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:05 am

US carriers have studied these markets, and for those that have tried, they have never worked, outside of summer.
Even Berlin struggles. It's not only eastern Europe, but to Africa too. This is the whole reason US carriers have European partners.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:26 am

Well, AA added PRG and BUD nonstop from PHL this year (they briefly operated JFK-BUD when Malev was around, but that was pre-BK). The PRG and BUD routes for AA have apparently done well and you can see from the additional adds next summer, the strategy works. Year round these routes are tough. There really isn't enough business demand to support what are primarily leisure and VFR routes. DL has tried BUD, OTP, and others nonstop and they have not lasted. They fly to PRG seasonally from JFK. I can see UA adding PRG and BUD from EWR but again, seasonally. The bottom line is these markets in the East are well served by all European carriers (major) and they each have code shares in place with each of the US3.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:32 am

lavalampluva wrote:
I don’t think the 757 has the range from the US (East Coast) to a lot of Eastern Europe, they’d need something bigger and bigger means more seats need to be filled.

I think OK had flights from PRG-JFK, maybe with A310-300. But that route is gone and those a/c sold.


(Google search)
http://www.nycaviation.com/2009/07/csa- ... -25th/1414

Yep, A310 to JFK and seasonal YYZ back in 2009. OK doesn't have plan for any long-haul fleet, either (other than that single A330 that's leased from KE, flying to/from ICN).

Ultimately, like many said, "Eastern" (b/c part of it technically can be referred to Central Europe) Europe routes usually struggled outside of summer peaks. Not enough business demand and not enough leisure demands. LOT is more of an exception b/c of the fairly big Polish diaspora in US. Same for JU. Even a city like ATH only have year round flight to/from US with EK rather than one of the US3.
 
Freshside3
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Re: Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:30 am

I heard someplace that PS plans to fly KBP-ORD, in the near future.
 
Freshside3
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Re: Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:34 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
Well, AA added PRG and BUD nonstop from PHL this year (they briefly operated JFK-BUD when Malev was around, but that was pre-BK). The PRG and BUD routes for AA have apparently done well and you can see from the additional adds next summer, the strategy works. Year round these routes are tough. There really isn't enough business demand to support what are primarily leisure and VFR routes. DL has tried BUD, OTP, and others nonstop and they have not lasted. They fly to PRG seasonally from JFK. I can see UA adding PRG and BUD from EWR but again, seasonally. The bottom line is these markets in the East are well served by all European carriers (major) and they each have code shares in place with each of the US3.

I'd like to see UA do PRG, too, but I seriously doubt they are taking a serious look at that----or any Eastern European market.
 
tealnz
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Re: Future of trans Atlantic to Eastern Europe?

Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:36 pm

This is where the A321XLR makes things interesting. 500nm more range than the LR. Brochure range 4500nm @206 pax. Economics presumably much the same as a standard A321neo. Immediate integration into A320 fleets. Ability to do regular A321 routes economically in off-season. Available in maybe 2-3 years...

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