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PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:20 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Maybe BFL. I can see it.


I know that airport officials have been working on getting flights to SEA, but without subsidies, who knows if that will ever start...


SEA-BFL-SAN would be nice. BFL is just not a market I know much about.


Hello everyone! Please allow me to add my own first-hand knowledge of Bakersfield airport (BFL) to the discussion.

I was born and raised in Bakersfield, and lived there for 33 years until I moved to San Diego in 1999. I "apprenticed" with a travel agent friend, who nourished by airline-geekness by showing me the ins and outs of the airline world. I am old enough to remember the great United Airlines shut-down for several days in the late 1970's, and I remember United and Hughes Air West pulling out of BFL before President Carter had finished signing the legislation of airline deregulation in 1978. For six years, Bakersfield had almost NO airline service at all (scattered LAX flights came and went, but nothing permanent). It was August of 1984 when American Airlines announced MD80 service to DFW, and I thought, "well, maybe the city's time has come!" United returned, and SkyWest served as a Delta connection flight to LAX, and even Continental served BFL for a while after the Frontier acquisition.

But nothing really ever lasted. The first airline to return, American, faithfully served the DFW route for many years, even when Delta, Continental, and United mainline ended service. And then the day came in 1998 when American and American Eagle pulled out completely - our link to my mom's family in Arkansas (25 miles from FSM) was gone. Back to using LAX for that and adding 3-4 extra hours to the trip.

In my observations about airline service to BFL - in the pre-airliners.net days - I overheard what I discovered to be the key: business traffic. The business traffic simply isn't there in Bakersfield. Yes, there is the oil business, but that has had so many booms and busts that both AA and UA pulled out of the Texas markets. It was also pointed out to me that, like Stockton, Bakersfield is a relatively poor city. Yes, it is amazingly well-located to take advantage of its proximity to both southern California and northern California, but the mentality in Bakersfield has always been, "we're just a sleepy little town in the central valley, and we only want to be a quiet suburban community based on agriculture and oil. We don't want freeways, we don't want outsiders coming through, and if you want big city life, well, LA is just over the hill!" And yes, I've heard those exact words.

Couple all that with the close and (somewhat) convenient proximity of LAX, and you have an airport that is never going to thrive. In population, Bakersfield is the 9th largest city in California, and the 62nd most populous metropolitan area in the U.S., between Albany, NY, and Greenville-Spartanburg, SC (which itself is just after Albuquerque, NM). But as we all know, population isn't the driver of airline service - it's demand, and Bakersfield just simply doesn't have it. It somehow manages to hold onto two daily Denver flights and 1-2 SFO flights on United, and 3-4 flights to PHX, and that's it. The new DFW flight is subsidy based, and any service to SEA will have to be as well.

I have always hoped for more for Bakersfield, but there are so many self-induced issues that make it a completely different case than its nearest almost-twin, Fresno. The only service I can think of that actually might have been profitable for an airline without subsidies was ExpressJet, as their BFL-SMF flights, as the business traffic going up to Sacramento in the morning was on the same flight coming back in the evening. Why no other airline has tried that route, I don't know. Horizon/Alaska is the only airline I can think of that could make it work.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:47 pm

kwbl wrote:
FI think SCK to LAX and SEA/PDX could be successful and SLE to SEA and SFO/SJC are possible. SCK has the grant and Salem is once again beginning to push for commercial service. THese seems like pretty good Q400 routes.

SCK-LAX would likely be a 175 route. Stockton has been talking with Skywest about the route. Additionally my understanding is the Qs are going to end up operating in the Pacific NW.
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Hello everyone! Please allow me to add my own first-hand knowledge of Bakersfield airport (BFL) to the discussion.

Nice background about the Bakersfield area for those who do not know it.

BFL-SMF was never high demand even during the ExpressJet flights. When ExpressJet left BFL after 1 year, airport staff was quoted as saying BFL-SMF had 44% LF and BFL-SAN had 35% LF on the ERJ-145s. As a comparison, FAT-SAN operated back then on ExpressJet at about 75% LF.
https://www.bakersfield.com/news/expressjet-cutting-service-to-sacramento-san-diego/article_82abcce3-42e2-51e7-aad2-6b5ee6015b35.html

I don't know if BFL-SMF flights have a hard time competing against the 4 hour drive or the fairly low Amtrak fares. There may not be enough time vs money travelers. I know when I have had to go Fresno to Sacramento for business I often use Amtrak and just spend the time working on my laptop.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:00 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
kwbl wrote:
FI think SCK to LAX and SEA/PDX could be successful and SLE to SEA and SFO/SJC are possible. SCK has the grant and Salem is once again beginning to push for commercial service. THese seems like pretty good Q400 routes.

SCK-LAX would likely be a 175 route. Stockton has been talking with Skywest about the route. Additionally my understanding is the Qs are going to end up operating in the Pacific NW.
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Hello everyone! Please allow me to add my own first-hand knowledge of Bakersfield airport (BFL) to the discussion.

Nice background about the Bakersfield area for those who do not know it.

BFL-SMF was never high demand even during the ExpressJet flights. When ExpressJet left BFL after 1 year, airport staff was quoted as saying BFL-SMF had 44% LF and BFL-SAN had 35% LF on the ERJ-145s. As a comparison, FAT-SAN operated back then on ExpressJet at about 75% LF.
https://www.bakersfield.com/news/expressjet-cutting-service-to-sacramento-san-diego/article_82abcce3-42e2-51e7-aad2-6b5ee6015b35.html

I don't know if BFL-SMF flights have a hard time competing against the 4 hour drive or the fairly low Amtrak fares. There may not be enough time vs money travelers. I know when I have had to go Fresno to Sacramento for business I often use Amtrak and just spend the time working on my laptop.


I wondered about that too - in 1985, there were two trains from Bakersfield (the southern terminus of the San Joaquins) to Emeryville. Today there are four per day to Emeryville along with two other trains to Sacramento, with Stockton being the diverging point. There's even an additional seventh train from Fresno to Sacramento that doesn't extend to Bakersfield, but it does show the demand for travel in the Central Valley. However, since there's no "business class", so I agree that there just isn't premium demand. Anyone doing business in Bakersfield is either going to use LAX or BFL, end of story.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:36 pm

I believe the revised Amtrak San Joaquin schedule only has 1 Bakersfield-Sacramento train with no connecting bus. Then additionally there are Thruway bus connections available. But 1 Bakersfield-Sacramento train frequency was cut to create an early morning arriving Fresno-Sacramento train.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyfresno
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:40 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
kwbl wrote:
FI think SCK to LAX and SEA/PDX could be successful and SLE to SEA and SFO/SJC are possible. SCK has the grant and Salem is once again beginning to push for commercial service. THese seems like pretty good Q400 routes.

SCK-LAX would likely be a 175 route. Stockton has been talking with Skywest about the route. Additionally my understanding is the Qs are going to end up operating in the Pacific NW.
PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Hello everyone! Please allow me to add my own first-hand knowledge of Bakersfield airport (BFL) to the discussion.

Nice background about the Bakersfield area for those who do not know it.

BFL-SMF was never high demand even during the ExpressJet flights. When ExpressJet left BFL after 1 year, airport staff was quoted as saying BFL-SMF had 44% LF and BFL-SAN had 35% LF on the ERJ-145s. As a comparison, FAT-SAN operated back then on ExpressJet at about 75% LF.
https://www.bakersfield.com/news/expressjet-cutting-service-to-sacramento-san-diego/article_82abcce3-42e2-51e7-aad2-6b5ee6015b35.html

I don't know if BFL-SMF flights have a hard time competing against the 4 hour drive or the fairly low Amtrak fares. There may not be enough time vs money travelers. I know when I have had to go Fresno to Sacramento for business I often use Amtrak and just spend the time working on my laptop.


I wondered about that too - in 1985, there were two trains from Bakersfield (the southern terminus of the San Joaquins) to Emeryville. Today there are four per day to Emeryville along with two other trains to Sacramento, with Stockton being the diverging point. There's even an additional seventh train from Fresno to Sacramento that doesn't extend to Bakersfield, but it does show the demand for travel in the Central Valley. However, since there's no "business class", so I agree that there just isn't premium demand. Anyone doing business in Bakersfield is either going to use LAX or BFL, end of story.


So, not to get too far off topic, but the rail agency is based in Sacramento, and has a *VERY* Sacramento-centric viewpoint. Fresno needed an early/late train to the Bay, not Sac. The current train sees a lot of its seats go to waste.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:34 pm

flyfresno wrote:
So, not to get too far off topic, but the rail agency is based in Sacramento, and has a *VERY* Sacramento-centric viewpoint. Fresno needed an early/late train to the Bay, not Sac. The current train sees a lot of its seats go to waste.

Actually it is based in Stockton not Sacramento.

The San Joaquin Joint Powers Authority is responsible for the San Joaquin Amtrak route. SJJPA members are the Central Valley counties of Kings, Tulare, Fresno, Madera, Merced, San Joaquin, Stanislaus and Sacramento (Kern County/Bakersfield is not a member) plus the East Bay counties of Alameda and Contra Costa.
https://sjjpa.com/about/

The SJJPA is managed by the San Joaquin Regional Rail Commission which also owns and operates the Altamont Corridor Express (ACE) commuter trains from Stockton to San Jose.
http://www.acerail.com/About/Board
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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cic777
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:33 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
I was kind of hoping AS would open more secondary CA airports like SCK and BFL, but I don't think it's very likely.


I've seen these two markets along with RDD and ACV mentioned, but one market keeps getting overlooked. I don't know why. I would not be one bit surprised to see CIC under serious consideration from not only AS but other carriers as well. JetChico and the airport manager (who by the way moved from TVL specifically for the airport manager job in CIC) are very active in trying to recruit airlines to CIC. Apparently they are getting close.

I can see AS doing a SEA-CIC-SAN or SEA-CIC-LAX. I know there are those on this site who think I'm smoking some really strong stuff. Wouldn't be the first time I've been accused of that.

https://www.actionnewsnow.com/content/n ... 55831.html

http://jetchico.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... alysis.pdf
 
routeplanner
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:46 pm

cic777 wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
I was kind of hoping AS would open more secondary CA airports like SCK and BFL, but I don't think it's very likely.


I've seen these two markets along with RDD and ACV mentioned, but one market keeps getting overlooked. I don't know why. I would not be one bit surprised to see CIC under serious consideration from not only AS but other carriers as well. JetChico and the airport manager (who by the way moved from TVL specifically for the airport manager job in CIC) are very active in trying to recruit airlines to CIC. Apparently they are getting close.

I can see AS doing a SEA-CIC-SAN or SEA-CIC-LAX. I know there are those on this site who think I'm smoking some really strong stuff. Wouldn't be the first time I've been accused of that.

https://www.actionnewsnow.com/content/n ... 55831.html

http://jetchico.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... alysis.pdf


The efforts of many of these communities to secure air service from a major carrier is commendable. The economics of these places however are not. It would be like a group of people in Muleshoe Idaho getting together and telling Dillards or even Walmart that a mid sized superstore is really needed for the area. The placing of resources in a market like these doesn't create a lot of traffic that turns the operation to profits for the company. Placing a 70 seat aircraft into a market that twice a day creates 50 total boardings dilutes the profitability of the entire operation, including the connecting traffic it creates. That is why you see so many carriers suspend services when grant funding or local economic participation end. Unless a carrier comes along that has aircraft right sized for the markets, a large bankroll (the precursor to developing interline partners), or a bankroll and attractive load factor on their smaller aircraft that will show a larger carrier they need to take them on as a codeshare partner for the benefit of both, you won't see it happening. These places will continue to see on again off again carrier participation or Junket Carriers bringing in flights 2 or 3 times a week to places most business travelers don't need to go.
 
FATFlyer
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:49 pm

I won't say it would not happen.

But the problem for CIC will be the 90 minute drive to SMF. Bakersfield is a much larger market than Chico and still has difficulty maintaining much service due to its proximity to BUR and LAX. SCK also is much larger and has had difficulty attracting non-Allegiant service due to the proximity to SMF and OAK.

Chico might be able to attract someone like Boutique Air. But it will be more difficult in my mind to attract AS.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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FA9295
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:57 pm

routeplanner wrote:
These places will continue to see on again off again carrier participation or Junket Carriers bringing in flights 2 or 3 times a week to places most business travelers don't need to go.

True, but business traffic isn't the only way a route can be successful. Leisure traffic certainly helps as well.

Just to add other examples to these types of routes, PDX-SUN (which was only operated 2x weekly) and EUG-SJC were funded off of grants and once the money ran out, the routes went away too.

However, what I don't understand is how SEA-SUN would generate so much more traffic than PDX-SUN. Obviously Seattle is a much larger market than Portland, but I would think that on a route for such a small destination, such as SUN, that SEA-SUN wouldn't generate much more traffic than PDX-SUN would.
 
routeplanner
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:04 pm

FA9295 wrote:
routeplanner wrote:
These places will continue to see on again off again carrier participation or Junket Carriers bringing in flights 2 or 3 times a week to places most business travelers don't need to go.

True, but business traffic isn't the only way a route can be successful. Leisure traffic certainly helps as well.

Just to add other examples to these types of routes, PDX-SUN (which was only operated 2x weekly) and EUG-SJC were funded off of grants and once the money ran out, the routes went away too.

However, what I don't understand is how SEA-SUN would generate so much more traffic than PDX-SUN. Obviously Seattle is a much larger market than Portland, but I would think that on a route for such a small destination, such as SUN, that SEA-SUN wouldn't generate much more traffic than PDX-SUN would.



SEA-SUN has and for the foreseeable future been a consistent market. There are many corporations and businesses that have offices in SUN and create a great deal of traffic to the area. The SUN market is not all skiing, although many companies with Senior and upper end management have staff located there that are involved heavily in the skiing and recreational business. The SUN market is one that most carriers actively participate in as it is very profitable. I think at the moment AA is the only one not, and I look for that to change.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:05 pm

ANA787 wrote:
Hopefully a PDX-FLL flight soon.


If SFO-FLL was dropped I doubt PDX-FLL would work.
 
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FA9295
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:51 pm

rbavfan wrote:
ANA787 wrote:
Hopefully a PDX-FLL flight soon.


If SFO-FLL was dropped I doubt PDX-FLL would work.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. SFO-FLL has competition (including SFO-MIA), whereas PDX-FLL does not. The FLL/MIA area is currently the largest unserved market from PDX.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:59 pm

rbavfan wrote:
If SFO-FLL was dropped I doubt PDX-FLL would work.

SFO-FLL was NOT dropped by AS, it was changed to seasonal service. AS's schedules currently show the route starting up again on March 10, 2019.

bb
Last edited by SANFan on Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:02 pm

FA9295 wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
ANA787 wrote:
Hopefully a PDX-FLL flight soon.


If SFO-FLL was dropped I doubt PDX-FLL would work.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. SFO-FLL has competition (including SFO-MIA), whereas PDX-FLL does not. The FLL/MIA area is currently the largest unserved market from PDX.


Sounds like a good route for jetBlue to start up then, who is much better at the transcon game and looks to be re-concentrating their efforts on their hubs, with FLL being their 3rd largest.
 
jbpdx
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:51 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
rbavfan wrote:

If SFO-FLL was dropped I doubt PDX-FLL would work.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. SFO-FLL has competition (including SFO-MIA), whereas PDX-FLL does not. The FLL/MIA area is currently the largest unserved market from PDX.


Sounds like a good route for jetBlue to start up then, who is much better at the transcon game and looks to be re-concentrating their efforts on their hubs, with FLL being their 3rd largest.


We’ve been waiting. JetBlue is contracting at PDX. Most airlines seem uninterested in expanding in Portland. If we don’t get adds from Alaska, we basically get nothing. American isn’t interested in adding Portland to its huge Caribbean/South America MIA hub.
^
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:05 pm

SANFan wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
If SFO-FLL was dropped I doubt PDX-FLL would work.

SFO-FLL was NOT dropped by AS, it was changed to seasonal service. AS's schedules currently show the route starting up again on March 10, 2019.

bb


Seasonal service that doesn’t run through a big chunk of the season to Florida is a bit odd.
 
tphuang
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:28 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
SANFan wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
If SFO-FLL was dropped I doubt PDX-FLL would work.

SFO-FLL was NOT dropped by AS, it was changed to seasonal service. AS's schedules currently show the route starting up again on March 10, 2019.

bb


Seasonal service that doesn’t run through a big chunk of the season to Florida is a bit odd.


I don't think it's coming back outside of a couple of holiday seasons like Christmas and Easter. They keep showing is on their schedule really far out and then cancel them when they get closer. It's easy to understand why. B6 killed them on this route. Pure slaughter.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:08 am

jbpdx wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
I wouldn't necessarily say that. SFO-FLL has competition (including SFO-MIA), whereas PDX-FLL does not. The FLL/MIA area is currently the largest unserved market from PDX.


Sounds like a good route for jetBlue to start up then, who is much better at the transcon game and looks to be re-concentrating their efforts on their hubs, with FLL being their 3rd largest.


We’ve been waiting. JetBlue is contracting at PDX. Most airlines seem uninterested in expanding in Portland. If we don’t get adds from Alaska, we basically get nothing. American isn’t interested in adding Portland to its huge Caribbean/South America MIA hub.


Isn't Sun Country increasing their presence at PDX?
 
jsta1981
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:49 am

jbpdx wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
I wouldn't necessarily say that. SFO-FLL has competition (including SFO-MIA), whereas PDX-FLL does not. The FLL/MIA area is currently the largest unserved market from PDX.


Sounds like a good route for jetBlue to start up then, who is much better at the transcon game and looks to be re-concentrating their efforts on their hubs, with FLL being their 3rd largest.


We’ve been waiting. JetBlue is contracting at PDX. Most airlines seem uninterested in expanding in Portland. If we don’t get adds from Alaska, we basically get nothing. American isn’t interested in adding Portland to its huge Caribbean/South America MIA hub.


Question....isn't that how most hub airports work? The hub airline brings most of the flights/destinations to the airport? And the other airlines use the airport as a spoke from their hubs? So it makes sense that Alaska provides PDX with most of it's growth opportunities and other airlines use it as a spoke. In that regard it seems PDX isn't doing quite well for itself. Doesn't seem like its missing too much. It maintains at least a nonstop seasonal presence to every hub airport in the US except for South Florida ( I think that's correct....please correct me if I'm wrong). My belief is that AA might cannibalize it's PDX - Charlotte flights if it were to start a Miami flight. There are way more business ties between North Carolina and Portland than there are between Portland and Miami. It seems that most of the traffic between PDX and Miami would be low yield tourism, cruise ship traffic, and family visits. Most Portlanders visit Hawaii instead of the Caribbean. Charlotte has such a good Caribbean network that anyone going to the Caribbean from PDX can use Charlotte....I know I've used it plenty of times myself on my way to the Caribbean. Miami does have flights to a few of the smaller Caribbean islands such as Antigua and Bonaire, but really how many Portlanders are visiting those islands? It does seem like a winter Friday night red eye to Miami/FLL could work to connect people to their cruises or to the islands, but I really don't think anything else would be money making at this point for either JetBlue or American. PDX just a large enough market and it's so seasonal. Also...if I'm going to South America from PDX it's easier to connect in Dallas.

You got me thinking about which cities could see some expansion from PDX. It doesn't seem like there's much left for Alaska right now. All the cities left that don't have service to PDX are smaller midsize cities. I was thinking that maybe Alaska could start Nashville, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Raleigh/Durham, San Antonio, or Cincinnati on a summer seasonal basis....but a 737 would definitely be too much plane for those markets, and I don't know if a E75 can fly that far. I could see San Antonio possibly working as a year round nonstop if a E75 can do it. Maybe Nashville could work on Southwest? The problem remains with Portland tourism being too seasonal and not having enough business ties to those markets. South Florida could work as a winter seasonal. Maybe Alaska could start a flight to Houston or a summer seasonal to Jackson Hole? I just really don't know what's left for PDX expansion. Its almost as if PDX is stuck in this inbetween land right now....not big enough to sustain flights to smaller midsize cities, but big enough that it feels like maybe it could (even though we all know it can't).

Internationally PDX seems set for the time being....not much expansion going to happen there anytime soon....although I'm sure PDX could easily sustain a year around flight to Heathrow. My assumption is that will happen sometime in the near future. In regard to Asia, I along with everyone else would like to see Delta move its PDX- Asia flight from Narita to Seoul. I believe a flight to Seoul could probably go daily year around unlike Narita which can only sustain 5 days a week for about 6 months out of the year. I have a really hard time believing that PDX could sustain 2 daily flights to Asia at this time.
 
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cic777
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:31 am

Quoting routeplanner "The efforts of many of these communities to secure air service from a major carrier is commendable. The economics of these places however are not. It would be like a group of people in Muleshoe Idaho getting together and telling Dillards or even Walmart that a mid sized superstore is really needed for the area. The placing of resources in a market like these doesn't create a lot of traffic that turns the operation to profits for the company. Placing a 70 seat aircraft into a market that twice a day creates 50 total boardings dilutes the profitability of the entire operation, including the connecting traffic it creates. That is why you see so many carriers suspend services when grant funding or local economic participation end. Unless a carrier comes along that has aircraft right sized for the markets, a large bankroll (the precursor to developing interline partners), or a bankroll and attractive load factor on their smaller aircraft that will show a larger carrier they need to take them on as a codeshare partner for the benefit of both, you won't see it happening. These places will continue to see on again off again carrier participation or Junket Carriers bringing in flights 2 or 3 times a week to places most business travelers don't need to go."

Quoting FATflyer "I won't say it would not happen.

But the problem for CIC will be the 90 minute drive to SMF. Bakersfield is a much larger market than Chico and still has difficulty maintaining much service due to its proximity to BUR and LAX. SCK also is much larger and has had difficulty attracting non-Allegiant service due to the proximity to SMF and OAK.

Chico might be able to attract someone like Boutique Air. But it will be more difficult in my mind to attract AS."

Hence the reason they are trying to establish a travel bank there so they can guarantee a profitable start. And as for the proximity of BFL to BUR and LAX, those folks have the luxury of traveling on interstate highways or freeway the whole distance. Chico travelers don't have such luxuries. Hwys 99 and 70 are both treacherous at best.

I'm in no way trying to compare CIC to BFL or FAT. Those are by far much larger markets.

I guess we will have to wait and see.
 
routeplanner
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Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:57 pm

cic777 wrote:
Quoting routeplanner "The efforts of many of these communities to secure air service from a major carrier is commendable. The economics of these places however are not. It would be like a group of people in Muleshoe Idaho getting together and telling Dillards or even Walmart that a mid sized superstore is really needed for the area. The placing of resources in a market like these doesn't create a lot of traffic that turns the operation to profits for the company. Placing a 70 seat aircraft into a market that twice a day creates 50 total boardings dilutes the profitability of the entire operation, including the connecting traffic it creates. That is why you see so many carriers suspend services when grant funding or local economic participation end. Unless a carrier comes along that has aircraft right sized for the markets, a large bankroll (the precursor to developing interline partners), or a bankroll and attractive load factor on their smaller aircraft that will show a larger carrier they need to take them on as a codeshare partner for the benefit of both, you won't see it happening. These places will continue to see on again off again carrier participation or Junket Carriers bringing in flights 2 or 3 times a week to places most business travelers don't need to go."

Quoting FATflyer "I won't say it would not happen.

But the problem for CIC will be the 90 minute drive to SMF. Bakersfield is a much larger market than Chico and still has difficulty maintaining much service due to its proximity to BUR and LAX. SCK also is much larger and has had difficulty attracting non-Allegiant service due to the proximity to SMF and OAK.

Chico might be able to attract someone like Boutique Air. But it will be more difficult in my mind to attract AS."

Hence the reason they are trying to establish a travel bank there so they can guarantee a profitable start. And as for the proximity of BFL to BUR and LAX, those folks have the luxury of traveling on interstate highways or freeway the whole distance. Chico travelers don't have such luxuries. Hwys 99 and 70 are both treacherous at best.

I'm in no way trying to compare CIC to BFL or FAT. Those are by far much larger markets.

I guess we will have to wait and see.


The passion of many to get air service to these communities is not unique. There are communities all over the nation that contact airlines very frequently telling the attributes of their communities and why a particular airline should open the route. What is interesting is that at airports like LaGuardia, Reagan, Orange County etc, usually have lists and list of carriers vying for a slot or gate to open up. These airports are windfalls to the carriers that are fortunate enough to get the slot or opportunity to operate there, and have extreme value and bargaining power. I have maintained that there should be more Fed involvement in this and that as slots become available, each slot or operation approved for a carrier at these high traffic, high profitable, high fare airports, an additional city should be required for the carrier to select from a list and that carrier be required to offer service to that city, such as Chico, Bakersfield, Stockton, Modesto, Salem etc. It should be written so that the carrier would be required to offer service from that airport to a Hub of their own, and that it should be required to offer that service for a given period of time. If this were to happen, airlines would market those cities and be fare comparable because they are required to be there and cannot get out of it unless they give up the slot at the money press airport.
 
User avatar
cic777
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:40 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:39 pm

routeplanner wrote:
cic777 wrote:
Quoting routeplanner "The efforts of many of these communities to secure air service from a major carrier is commendable. The economics of these places however are not. It would be like a group of people in Muleshoe Idaho getting together and telling Dillards or even Walmart that a mid sized superstore is really needed for the area. The placing of resources in a market like these doesn't create a lot of traffic that turns the operation to profits for the company. Placing a 70 seat aircraft into a market that twice a day creates 50 total boardings dilutes the profitability of the entire operation, including the connecting traffic it creates. That is why you see so many carriers suspend services when grant funding or local economic participation end. Unless a carrier comes along that has aircraft right sized for the markets, a large bankroll (the precursor to developing interline partners), or a bankroll and attractive load factor on their smaller aircraft that will show a larger carrier they need to take them on as a codeshare partner for the benefit of both, you won't see it happening. These places will continue to see on again off again carrier participation or Junket Carriers bringing in flights 2 or 3 times a week to places most business travelers don't need to go."

Quoting FATflyer "I won't say it would not happen.

But the problem for CIC will be the 90 minute drive to SMF. Bakersfield is a much larger market than Chico and still has difficulty maintaining much service due to its proximity to BUR and LAX. SCK also is much larger and has had difficulty attracting non-Allegiant service due to the proximity to SMF and OAK.

Chico might be able to attract someone like Boutique Air. But it will be more difficult in my mind to attract AS."

Hence the reason they are trying to establish a travel bank there so they can guarantee a profitable start. And as for the proximity of BFL to BUR and LAX, those folks have the luxury of traveling on interstate highways or freeway the whole distance. Chico travelers don't have such luxuries. Hwys 99 and 70 are both treacherous at best.

I'm in no way trying to compare CIC to BFL or FAT. Those are by far much larger markets.

I guess we will have to wait and see.


The passion of many to get air service to these communities is not unique. There are communities all over the nation that contact airlines very frequently telling the attributes of their communities and why a particular airline should open the route. What is interesting is that at airports like LaGuardia, Reagan, Orange County etc, usually have lists and list of carriers vying for a slot or gate to open up. These airports are windfalls to the carriers that are fortunate enough to get the slot or opportunity to operate there, and have extreme value and bargaining power. I have maintained that there should be more Fed involvement in this and that as slots become available, each slot or operation approved for a carrier at these high traffic, high profitable, high fare airports, an additional city should be required for the carrier to select from a list and that carrier be required to offer service to that city, such as Chico, Bakersfield, Stockton, Modesto, Salem etc. It should be written so that the carrier would be required to offer service from that airport to a Hub of their own, and that it should be required to offer that service for a given period of time. If this were to happen, airlines would market those cities and be fare comparable because they are required to be there and cannot get out of it unless they give up the slot at the money press airport.


I'm done arguing. We are going to have to agree to disagree.
 
rainaviation
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:28 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:15 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

Sounds like a good route for jetBlue to start up then, who is much better at the transcon game and looks to be re-concentrating their efforts on their hubs, with FLL being their 3rd largest.


We’ve been waiting. JetBlue is contracting at PDX. Most airlines seem uninterested in expanding in Portland. If we don’t get adds from Alaska, we basically get nothing. American isn’t interested in adding Portland to its huge Caribbean/South America MIA hub.


Isn't Sun Country increasing their presence at PDX?


Yes, Sun Country is increasing their presence with multiple routes opening next month.
 
whatusaid
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:11 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:55 am

FATFlyer wrote:
I believe the revised Amtrak San Joaquin schedule only has 1 Bakersfield-Sacramento train with no connecting bus. Then additionally there are Thruway bus connections available. But 1 Bakersfield-Sacramento train frequency was cut to create an early morning arriving Fresno-Sacramento train.


The agency that now controls the San Joaquin is proposing much higher frequency....similar to what's between SAC and Emeryville, think every hour to every 90 minutes as new equipment comes online. The new morning train is more or less a failure on the weekends, but traffic is growing slowly between FNO and SAC during the week, but they've had on-time problems due to congestion at SAC that's turned off some commuters.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5081
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:53 pm

whatusaid wrote:
The agency that now controls the San Joaquin is proposing much higher frequency....similar to what's between SAC and Emeryville, think every hour to every 90 minutes as new equipment comes online. The new morning train is more or less a failure on the weekends, but traffic is growing slowly between FNO and SAC during the week, but they've had on-time problems due to congestion at SAC that's turned off some commuters.

By 2022 the plan is for Bakersfield-Stockton trains every 2 hours with some trains continuing to SAC and some to Emeryville. Connecting Thruway buses at Stockton will fill in to the opposite train destination as needed.

Relating to the discussions above, the plan is for a new Amtrak Thruway bus station to open near SMF in the next 3 or 4 years. Amtrak connecting buses from both the north and south would stop there. The addition of another transportation alternative for passengers to SMF may impact other airports.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4912
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:06 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
The agency that now controls the San Joaquin is proposing much higher frequency....similar to what's between SAC and Emeryville, think every hour to every 90 minutes as new equipment comes online. The new morning train is more or less a failure on the weekends, but traffic is growing slowly between FNO and SAC during the week, but they've had on-time problems due to congestion at SAC that's turned off some commuters.

By 2022 the plan is for Bakersfield-Stockton trains every 2 hours with some trains continuing to SAC and some to Emeryville. Connecting Thruway buses at Stockton will fill in to the opposite train destination as needed.

Relating to the discussions above, the plan is for a new Amtrak Thruway bus station to open near SMF in the next 3 or 4 years. Amtrak connecting buses from both the north and south would stop there. The addition of another transportation alternative for passengers to SMF may impact other airports.


I don't really know much on rail in that area. Amtrak will run that frequently? Is that on their own tracks of the new highly publicized high-speed rail tracks?
 
flyoregon
Posts: 785
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:29 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:11 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
The agency that now controls the San Joaquin is proposing much higher frequency....similar to what's between SAC and Emeryville, think every hour to every 90 minutes as new equipment comes online. The new morning train is more or less a failure on the weekends, but traffic is growing slowly between FNO and SAC during the week, but they've had on-time problems due to congestion at SAC that's turned off some commuters.

By 2022 the plan is for Bakersfield-Stockton trains every 2 hours with some trains continuing to SAC and some to Emeryville. Connecting Thruway buses at Stockton will fill in to the opposite train destination as needed.

Relating to the discussions above, the plan is for a new Amtrak Thruway bus station to open near SMF in the next 3 or 4 years. Amtrak connecting buses from both the north and south would stop there. The addition of another transportation alternative for passengers to SMF may impact other airports.


I don't really know much on rail in that area. Amtrak will run that frequently? Is that on their own tracks of the new highly publicized high-speed rail tracks?


Way to railroad the conversation... ba dum tsch
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:35 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
whatusaid wrote:
The agency that now controls the San Joaquin is proposing much higher frequency....similar to what's between SAC and Emeryville, think every hour to every 90 minutes as new equipment comes online. The new morning train is more or less a failure on the weekends, but traffic is growing slowly between FNO and SAC during the week, but they've had on-time problems due to congestion at SAC that's turned off some commuters.

By 2022 the plan is for Bakersfield-Stockton trains every 2 hours with some trains continuing to SAC and some to Emeryville. Connecting Thruway buses at Stockton will fill in to the opposite train destination as needed.

Relating to the discussions above, the plan is for a new Amtrak Thruway bus station to open near SMF in the next 3 or 4 years. Amtrak connecting buses from both the north and south would stop there. The addition of another transportation alternative for passengers to SMF may impact other airports.


I don't really know much on rail in that area. Amtrak will run that frequently? Is that on their own tracks of the new highly publicized high-speed rail tracks?


I believe all these trains run on tracks owned by and shared with the freight railroads.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5081
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:25 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
I don't really know much on rail in that area. Amtrak will run that frequently? Is that on their own tracks of the new highly publicized high-speed rail tracks?

The tracks for standard trains like the San Joaquins and the Capitol Corridor are owned by freight lines. The state has been paying for improvements to increase capacity to allow more passenger trains on those tracks.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
crescent
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:09 am

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:04 pm

GSP will have service to 19 airports once AA starts MIA and F9 starts TPA in the winter. Maybe not the easiest compare for BFL.
 
77H
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:46 am

FA9295 wrote:
My guesses for SEA and PDX: (obviously I don't think that these would be announced all at once, but overtime, this is where I see any new route additions going for AS)

SEA:
SEA-ELP (1x daily, E175)
SEA-MSN (1x daily, E175)
SEA-TUL (1x daily, E175)
SEA-DSM (1x daily, E175)
SEA-JAC (1x daily, E175)
SEA-BTM (1x daily, Q400)

PDX:
PDX-SAT (1x daily, E175)
PDX-DEN (3x daily, E175)
PDX-SBP (1x daily, E175)
PDX-GTF (1x daily, Q400)

I'm not really sure about the California hubs/focus cities. With the ongoing turf war with Southwest, it's anybody's guess at who will add what next, in my opinion...

Also, I can't see any new trans-con routes from PDX until Alaska can figure out a way to make their current seasonal routes work year-round. (such as ATL, BWI and PHL).


I agree that SEA-MSN is a likely candidate with the E75. Over the last year MSN has seen a great deal of growth in terms of new nonstops. SFO-MSN has been running all summer and seems to be reasonably popular. UA has also just announced LAX-MSN on the E75 which seemed a little out of left field. SEA-MSN is shored than both. If I remember correctly, AS started SEA-MKE with the E75 and upgraded it to mainline at a point.

77H
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5081
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:11 pm

San Luis Obispo (SBP) says they may see several new routes next year including SBP-PDX, SBP-SAN, along with SBP-DFW. The first two would likely be AS and the last one AA.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local ... 11835.html
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2304
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:13 pm

AS had a few planes divert to MSN on 9/11...they took good care of everyone stuck there if I recall.
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
Posts: 1169
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:23 pm

flyoregon wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
By 2022 the plan is for Bakersfield-Stockton trains every 2 hours with some trains continuing to SAC and some to Emeryville. Connecting Thruway buses at Stockton will fill in to the opposite train destination as needed.

Relating to the discussions above, the plan is for a new Amtrak Thruway bus station to open near SMF in the next 3 or 4 years. Amtrak connecting buses from both the north and south would stop there. The addition of another transportation alternative for passengers to SMF may impact other airports.


I don't really know much on rail in that area. Amtrak will run that frequently? Is that on their own tracks of the new highly publicized high-speed rail tracks?


Way to railroad the conversation... ba dum tsch


Yep, I had that coming - I'm the one that "sidetracked" the conversation with talk of Amtrak... :D

On the other hand, it is a useful tool in discussing travel demand: in looking at the Capitol Corridor route, nothing proceeds outside of the Sacramento area on these trains. Chico is barely 100 miles from Sacramento, and yet no Capitol Corridor trains venture up there. All they have is one middle-of-the-night stop on the Coast Starlight, If there isn't further demand by Amtrak, I am guessing there is little to no demand for service to Chico airport.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3942
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:54 pm

AS does need to add SEA-CVG nonstop service in order to retain customers in Greater Seattle that might otherwise switch over to DL, and DL even had 3 daily nonstops to CVG from SEA 10 years ago. Even though AS is still much bigger than DL is in SEA, DL is able to capture business that AS doesn't in SEA due to DL having nonstop service to CVG, Europe, and Asia.
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:01 pm

jplatts wrote:
AS does need to add SEA-CVG nonstop service in order to retain customers in Greater Seattle that might otherwise switch over to DL, and DL even had 3 daily nonstops to CVG from SEA 10 years ago. Even though AS is still much bigger than DL is in SEA, DL is able to capture business that AS doesn't in SEA due to DL having nonstop service to CVG, Europe, and Asia.

I would suspect that AS would probably add CLE before CVG, since the only competition that they would face are a handful of F9 flights during the summer months...
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:05 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
San Luis Obispo (SBP) says they may see several new routes next year including SBP-PDX, SBP-SAN, along with SBP-DFW. The first two would likely be AS and the last one AA.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local ... 11835.html

Yes, SBP has really been pushing AS for a PDX flight. Hopefully it'll happen in the near future. I would suspect that the ERJ-175 currently on SEA-SBP would get moved to PDX-SBP, while SEA-SBP gets upgraded to a 737-800.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3942
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:14 pm

FA9295 wrote:
jplatts wrote:
AS does need to add SEA-CVG nonstop service in order to retain customers in Greater Seattle that might otherwise switch over to DL, and DL even had 3 daily nonstops to CVG from SEA 10 years ago. Even though AS is still much bigger than DL is in SEA, DL is able to capture business that AS doesn't in SEA due to DL having nonstop service to CVG, Europe, and Asia.

I would suspect that AS would probably add CLE before CVG, since the only competition that they would face are a handful of F9 flights during the summer months...


While I do agree with your point, AS does need to add SEA-CVG nonstop service in order to retain frequent flyers and corporate contracts in SEA that it might lose to DL.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5492
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:30 pm

FATFlyer wrote:
San Luis Obispo (SBP) says they may see several new routes next year including SBP-PDX, SBP-SAN, along with SBP-DFW. The first two would likely be AS and the last one AA.

I will say that SBP-SAN is a city-pair that I've been interested in (and pushing) for a couple of years now, prolly since about the time AS began serving the Poly Tech city from SEA. There would be some good commonalities between the two cities -- education and tourism amongst them -- and like SAN-FAT & SAN-MRY, even tho there are no pax traffic figures before the service starts, once added, traffic will come, and I'm sure a daily EMJ r/t would be successful for AAG.

A daily SEA-SBP-SAN r/t seems quite doable.to me. (Just as I feel a SBA-SAN tag-on to either PDX or SEA would be an excellent add for AAG.)

AAG continues to have a desire to expand in and even "own" CA. IMO, that includes as much intra-state travel within the Golden State as they can add. These would be a couple of good but currently un-served markets from SAN that would fit very nicely onto AAG's CA route map. Service could be added quickly since all are already served by the carrier. (And besides, more CA routes that AS wouldn't have to compete with WN on!)

bb
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 5081
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:23 pm

FA9295 wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
San Luis Obispo (SBP) says they may see several new routes next year including SBP-PDX, SBP-SAN, along with SBP-DFW. The first two would likely be AS and the last one AA.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local ... 11835.html

Yes, SBP has really been pushing AS for a PDX flight. Hopefully it'll happen in the near future. I would suspect that the ERJ-175 currently on SEA-SBP would get moved to PDX-SBP, while SEA-SBP gets upgraded to a 737-800.


Or upgrade one of the SEA-FAT frequencies to mainline and shift the current aircraft to PDX-SBP.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5113
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:48 pm

jplatts wrote:
AS does need to add SEA-CVG nonstop service in order to retain customers in Greater Seattle that might otherwise switch over to DL, and DL even had 3 daily nonstops to CVG from SEA 10 years ago. Even though AS is still much bigger than DL is in SEA, DL is able to capture business that AS doesn't in SEA due to DL having nonstop service to CVG, Europe, and Asia.

Your reasons illustrate why DL already likely has the bulk of business travel between SEA and CVG. AS has never had service between the two - I believe - and DL has for many years. AS would be starting the route to attempt to capture some of that traffic, not retain it.
 
User avatar
Tomassjc
Posts: 730
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:38 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:18 am

FA9295 wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
San Luis Obispo (SBP) says they may see several new routes next year including SBP-PDX, SBP-SAN, along with SBP-DFW. The first two would likely be AS and the last one AA.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local ... 11835.html

Yes, SBP has really been pushing AS for a PDX flight. Hopefully it'll happen in the near future. I would suspect that the ERJ-175 currently on SEA-SBP would get moved to PDX-SBP, while SEA-SBP gets upgraded to a 737-800.


We could only wish, but the main runway at SBP is just a bit over 6,000 feet. A 737 operation would be super weight penalized. True that AS has brought a -800 to SBP a few years back. It dropped off the Seattle Symphony and ferried out empty. Quite a sight to see.
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
ArcticDog
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:51 am

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:50 am

Tomassjc wrote:
We could only wish, but the main runway at SBP is just a bit over 6,000 feet. A 737 operation would be super weight penalized. True that AS has brought a -800 to SBP a few years back. It dropped off the Seattle Symphony and ferried out empty. Quite a sight to see.


SNA is only 5,700' and full -800's regularly fly to SEA and PDX.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5337
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:35 am

Could SBP generate enough passenger traffic to support a daily 738?
 
Chugach
Posts: 1354
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:05 am

Tomassjc wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
San Luis Obispo (SBP) says they may see several new routes next year including SBP-PDX, SBP-SAN, along with SBP-DFW. The first two would likely be AS and the last one AA.
http://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local ... 11835.html

Yes, SBP has really been pushing AS for a PDX flight. Hopefully it'll happen in the near future. I would suspect that the ERJ-175 currently on SEA-SBP would get moved to PDX-SBP, while SEA-SBP gets upgraded to a 737-800.


We could only wish, but the main runway at SBP is just a bit over 6,000 feet. A 737 operation would be super weight penalized. True that AS has brought a -800 to SBP a few years back. It dropped off the Seattle Symphony and ferried out empty. Quite a sight to see.


6,000 is cakewalk for a 738. Especially on a short flight. LIH is 6,500 and sees 738’s going across the Pacific daily.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1552
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:26 am

SANFan wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
San Luis Obispo (SBP) says they may see several new routes next year including SBP-PDX, SBP-SAN, along with SBP-DFW. The first two would likely be AS and the last one AA.

I will say that SBP-SAN is a city-pair that I've been interested in (and pushing) for a couple of years now, prolly since about the time AS began serving the Poly Tech city from SEA. There would be some good commonalities between the two cities -- education and tourism amongst them -- and like SAN-FAT & SAN-MRY, even tho there are no pax traffic figures before the service starts, once added, traffic will come, and I'm sure a daily EMJ r/t would be successful for AAG.

A daily SEA-SBP-SAN r/t seems quite doable.to me. (Just as I feel a SBA-SAN tag-on to either PDX or SEA would be an excellent add for AAG.)

AAG continues to have a desire to expand in and even "own" CA. IMO, that includes as much intra-state travel within the Golden State as they can add. These would be a couple of good but currently un-served markets from SAN that would fit very nicely onto AAG's CA route map. Service could be added quickly since all are already served by the carrier. (And besides, more CA routes that AS wouldn't have to compete with WN on!)

bb


There’s been a lot of discussion about whether AS can complete with WN in California. Maybe this is a great opportunity for AS, one that WN can’t do, which is service to smaller and relatively smaller markets with E-jets?
 
jbpdx
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:44 am

FATFlyer wrote:
San Luis Obispo (SBP) says they may see several new routes next year including SBP-PDX


Unlikely.
^
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:27 pm

AirFiero wrote:
SANFan wrote:
FATFlyer wrote:
San Luis Obispo (SBP) says they may see several new routes next year including SBP-PDX, SBP-SAN, along with SBP-DFW. The first two would likely be AS and the last one AA.

I will say that SBP-SAN is a city-pair that I've been interested in (and pushing) for a couple of years now, prolly since about the time AS began serving the Poly Tech city from SEA. There would be some good commonalities between the two cities -- education and tourism amongst them -- and like SAN-FAT & SAN-MRY, even tho there are no pax traffic figures before the service starts, once added, traffic will come, and I'm sure a daily EMJ r/t would be successful for AAG.

A daily SEA-SBP-SAN r/t seems quite doable.to me. (Just as I feel a SBA-SAN tag-on to either PDX or SEA would be an excellent add for AAG.)

AAG continues to have a desire to expand in and even "own" CA. IMO, that includes as much intra-state travel within the Golden State as they can add. These would be a couple of good but currently un-served markets from SAN that would fit very nicely onto AAG's CA route map. Service could be added quickly since all are already served by the carrier. (And besides, more CA routes that AS wouldn't have to compete with WN on!)

bb


There’s been a lot of discussion about whether AS can complete with WN in California. Maybe this is a great opportunity for AS, one that WN can’t do, which is service to smaller and relatively smaller markets with E-jets?


I think to a degree that has been their strategy. The challenge is that their somewhat robust intrastate network only captures a fraction of what WN can and does with their massive trunk route presence. Sooner or later either AS needs to get bolder in that arena or WN might get a regional-ish frame or add a FAT.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
timberwolf24
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2001 8:38 am

Re: Alaska Airlines to announce new markets soon

Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:48 pm

Whispers I’ve heard, ORD-DAL/SAN/SJC/LAS, with increased frequency to SFO and LAX.
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!

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Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos