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dcajet
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:41 am

Kadish wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Kadish wrote:
I think it s also a way to prevent anothwr airline like ux to enter in the market...but for me it's hard to understand why they r not sending the plane to Tokyo where the yields are higher and also good factors...


I do not have the numbers of IB's ops to Central America or to Japan but more often than not, the less traveled to cities are the ones that tend to be the most profitable as Iberia tends to be the only game in town when it comes to flying to Europe directly. Same applies to some routes to Africa - they can be incredibly profitable. Just think of all the options one has from MAD to Tokyo with a simple connection. Then think of SAL: most connections involve stopping in the USA and dealing with passport controls, etc, You can't beat Iberia to Latin America and they surely charge a premium for that.

whe
I see the logic in ur opinion but if that is true why ux for instance opens routes that r already flown by Ib like the last one in Panamá? If ur theory were right they shoul open sth new in Kenia, China,India (silly examples)...where nobody fly


The examples you provide (I know that you were not serious) are places where Iberia does not have the competitive advantage it has in Iberoamerica, where Spain is the motherland and Iberia a household name. All Iberia and Air Europa do is mine what is their natural (by historical and cultural ties) place to do business. Panama has probably matured enough that it can support both airlines. There are market such as ASU, COR, SAP where only UX can make it work, etc.

The above is the same reason why BA concentrates a good deal of its international network on the USA: they have a competitive advantage between London and the USA.
 
fightforlove
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:15 pm

With the increased frequencies, will this require the addition of more aircraft? (besides the A350s that are coming)? I assumed the A350s would replace the A340s on a 1-for-1 basis, but perhaps they'll be keeping the 340s for a little bit longer now?
 
fightforlove
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:16 pm

double post
 
dcajet
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:44 pm

fightforlove wrote:
With the increased frequencies, will this require the addition of more aircraft? (besides the A350s that are coming)? I assumed the A350s would replace the A340s on a 1-for-1 basis, but perhaps they'll be keeping the 340s for a little bit longer now?


With new cabins just installed on most, if not all A346s, I don't think we will see them go anywhere over the next couple of years. Another variable to consider is oil price: with low prices the 340s can be a profit center, but if oil prices spike, then we will see them withdrawn from service sooner rather than later.
 
HKFrequentFlyer
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:55 pm

More frequency and capacity changes for 2019 (CAPA):

GRU: Iberia reportedly plans to adjust aircraft on Madrid-Sao Paulo Guarulhos service during summer 2019 (Preferente/Europa Press, 30-Aug-2018). The carrier will replace A330 aircraft on the daily route for A340-600 aircraft, adding 1000 seats weekly on the route.

LIM: Iberia reportedly plans to increase Madrid-Lima frequency from seven to 10 times weekly effective Jul-2019 to Aug-2019, operating these additional frequencies with A340-600 aircraft (Preferente/Europa Press, 30-Aug-2018).

Previous:
SAL: Iberia announced (28-Aug-2018) plans to operate daily services to San Salvador effective 01-Oct-2018 with two class 288 seat A330-200 aircraft. According to OAG, the carrier operates Madrid-Guatemala City-San Salvador four times weekly and will increase to daily in Oct-2018.

EZE: Iberia announced (30-Jul-2018) plans to increase Madrid-Buenos Aires Ezeiza frequency from 14 to 17 times weekly effective 27-Oct-2018. The frequency increase represents a 20% increase in seats, becoming Iberia's largest market in Latin America and LEVEL plans to increase Barcelona-Buenos Aires Ezeiza frequency to nine times weekly effective winter 2018 (HostelTur, 11-Jun-2018). According to OAG, the carrier operates four times weekly on the route, with frequency to increase to nine times weekly effective 08-Aug-2018.
(Outside of North America: Boston, New York JFK, Chicago, Miami next Buenos Aires will become one of the busiest routes on the IAG network)

SCL: Iberia, via its official Twitter account, announced (01-Jun-2018) an increase in frequency to Santiago International Airport from seven to 10 times weekly, effective 01-May-2018. The carrier deployed A340-600 aircraft featuring 23 premium economy seats.
 
a350lover
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:21 pm

Like some people commented before, Iberia (but also IAG) are very very conservative with the deployment of efforts to new markets. I certainly think that means some sort of a more boring destinations catalogue, but we must admit it's a good strategy when it comes to analyze profits. Iberia had quite terrible problems in the past, and for a few years, they were super unable to make any profit out of its operation. Eventually, they transformed a lot, and they are a very decent European carrier, which is number one in most of its routes to South America. The cake is there, is big enough and IAG knows it very well that South/Central America is the core of its business. BA has also tried to serve some markets which are appealing to accommodate non-stop services to London, but in my opinion, they do respect that most of it belongs to Iberia's business.

Said that, South America economy is particularly weak and tends to be unstable (i.e. Argentina right now)

UX meanwhile is doing well by adding destinations to some secondary ports in South America, and that is not surprising. They need to differentiate themselves from IB, and they do not count with a bigger group behind that they need to report the decisions they make. Way easier.

Iberia recently announced some other increases to GRU (increasing weekly seats, by deploying the A346 there), and LIM will see another 10X week over the peak of the S19. Lima and Bogota are to me very important cities which definitely could be served 10X all year round. We'll see if they ever decide to make them stay. With the current situation in Argentina, I find it surprising that they don't increase Bogota instead, although the possibilities of EZE are there. Can't forget the Iberia group will operate up to 27 weekly departures to both MAD and BCN (via LEVEL).

Other ports? Tsssss SFO is sort of "fine", LAX I believe must be suffering a bit with Norwegian there. I am sure Iberia wants, but the numbers need to be looked, and for some reason, they are very focused airline. PVG and NRT seem to stay, that's very good news. At some point I think JNB should see increases also, but I believe they haven't done it yet because of the bad turnaround times of that route.

The good news are the A340s will stay. They are renovating the cabins, introducing Premium Economy, and seems like they still could have another 8-10 years life. They still need to figure out what's the "bird" they need to serve the hot & high destinations. A350-1000? What's the schedule for the following A350s? Are they coming soon?
 
dcajet
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:21 pm

a350lover wrote:
With the current situation in Argentina, I find it surprising that they don't increase Bogota instead, although the possibilities of EZE are there. Can't forget the Iberia group will operate up to 27 weekly departures to both MAD and BCN (via LEVEL).


The current turbulence in Argentina should only affect the local traveler, i.e. Argentina as a source market for international travel. and even that will be temporary. Iberia (and IAG) count on two key advantages the Argentina market has going for them: 1) the unrivaled strength of the Argentina-Spain market (currently at 41 weekly flights between points in the 2 countries and more frequencies on the way) and 2) the pull of Argentina for the European tourist that suddenly has become considerably more affordable (Argentina is not exactly a cheap vacation destination).

Even BA is not feeling the pinch of Norwegian's arrival to the UK-Argentina market: they cater to a different clientele, same as LEVEL does. Come Dec. 4. London and Buenos Aires will be linked by 14 weekly frequencies - a very welcome record for the 2 countries.
 
Southamerica
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:46 am

a350lover wrote:
Lima and Bogota are to me very important cities which definitely could be served 10X all year round. We'll see if they ever decide to make them stay.


For me it's pretty clear that particularly in Colombia, unlike most other Latin countries, Iberia simply doesn't have a dominant position and they know it.

Avianca has up to 3 DAILY flights on the BOG-MAD route. All scattered throughout the day in excellent timing and all operated by top-notch 787s with an excellent hard product onboard. Tough to compete with that, and with Air Europa's daily 787 frequency on top of it.

The Colombia-Spain market, doing a quick count, has up to 46 weekly frecuencies (BOG-MAD 21x AV, 7x UX, 7x IB; MDE-MAD 2x AV, 3x IB; CLO-MAD 6x AV), and Iberia "only" has 10. They recently axed Cali and their growth in Colombia in the first half of 2018 has been only 1% in passenger numbers compared to the same period of 2017.

Oh, and for the record, somebody mentioned that Avianca catered for lower-yielding passenger. Please show me where to find those "low-fares" because whenever I search, Avianca is almost always the most expensive option between Colombia and Spain.
 
dcajet
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:59 am

Southamerica wrote:
Oh, and for the record, somebody mentioned that Avianca catered for lower-yielding passenger. Please show me where to find those "low-fares" because whenever I search, Avianca is almost always the most expensive option between Colombia and Spain.


While not disputing your claim, I am not sure you can make the connection than lower fares necessarily equate to lower yields or vice versa. It is not how much a traveler will pay for the ticket, it's what profit the airline derives from each traveler. And that info is, logically, under seven locks for competitive reasons.

Airlines choose their battles; Iberia can't be all things to all people in South America or be #1 in every market. It is not size that counts but profitability. It is clear that IB has decided to put its chips on other destinations in the region other than Colombia for the time being. Things may well change very soon.
 
DominoxX
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:52 am

There's not much increase on the SCL-MAD route, LATAM dropped its extra thrice weekly flights in favour of Iberia
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:44 am

dcajet wrote:

While not disputing your claim, I am not sure you can make the connection than lower fares necessarily equate to lower yields or vice versa. It is not how much a traveler will pay for the ticket, it's what profit the airline derives from each traveler. And that info is, logically, under seven locks for competitive reasons.


However, the connection that we CAN make is that the market leader has more pricing power than the rest of competitors. I concur with Southamerica that AVIANCA is usually the most expensive option between BOG and MAD, and this in spite they have 3 daily flights to fill. IBERIA is usually priced 20-40 euros cheaper. Air Europa, on the other hand, is usually the cheapest option between these 2 cities.

As I explained in previous posts, controlling capacity as a mean to improve yields and profit might work in the short term, but if your competitors continue growing and expanding and you do nothing about it, you can become irrelevant in a few years, and fighting from that position is hard. You end up offering the cheapest fares and targeting the pennypinchers.

If we add to this situation the fact that IBERIA (and IAG) are not particularly glamorous or innovative, I would say that their future in certain markets is not bright. In the best case, they will be just another option, and in the worst, they won't make money on some -previously healthy- routes.
 
dcajet
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:14 pm

But you are comparing AV and IB at BOG like apples to apples. Fact is Avianca relies on feed from multiple stations across South and Central America to make those 3 flights work. There is no way BOG alone could support that kind of frequency (3x d). A whole different operation from Iberia's.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:24 pm

dcajet wrote:
But you are comparing AV and IB at BOG like apples to apples. Fact is Avianca relies on feed from multiple stations across South and Central America to make those 3 flights work. There is no way BOG alone could support that kind of frequency (3x d). A whole different operation from Iberia's.


Yes, but likewise IBERIA could also rely (or relies?) on feed from multiple stations across Europe.

There are colombian immigrants everywhere in Europe, and in large numbers, so that must be a significant source of connecting passengers. Of course, there are other players that also compete with IBERIA this side of the pond, such as Air France, Lufthansa and KLM.

It could also be that IBERIA, in their obsession with profit, are not actively targeting the connecting segment, because this would probably affect their yields, particularly in their tight European IBERIA Express business. As as result, passengers that still need to fly from Europe to Colombia look for other options, feeding other airlines and making viable their routes to BOG.

I wish we could know the percentage of local and connecting traffic for both AV and IB on the BOG-MAD route. That would give us a great insight as to what is really going on.

Europe - Colombia is a big market, and if it's your bread and butter and you want to remain "the queen" of it you are going to have to do more than what IBERIA is doing.
 
dcajet
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:12 pm

jmmadrid wrote:

I wish we could know the percentage of local and connecting traffic for both AV and IB on the BOG-MAD route. That would give us a great insight as to what is really going on..


Correct. Without that information, and then some more, it is impossible to reach any conclusions. All I will say is that IAG/Iberia know a thing or two about how best to run their network. Just because they are not #1 in every market doesn't means much or that their strategy is a failed one.
 
DalRiada
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:25 pm

notdownnlocked wrote:
Kadish wrote:
Good news for them. But every single time i read news like this im tempted to buy them a global map so they could see there r more places for opening new routes....n the same goes for ux.



Good luck with that. You will need to change the mindset of their passengers who will dish out their dollars only to arrive at a destination that speaks their own language. Most people will not travel to another country that speaks a different language unless they are within a tour group. Hence the hoards of people that travel from the USA to England or the hoards that fly EZE-MAD.


You should spend a weekend in Dublin so - you’ll almost hear more (Castilian) Spanish in the city centre than English (and definitely more than Irish)!
 
clo1973
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:37 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
It is less risky to add more flights to a well-established destination. Before BA launched new destinations in the US, they quite "maxed out" the demand in trunk routes like JFK. And UX tries from time to time those secondary markets, like Iguazú or San Pedro Sula.

In any case, LatAm is not North America with thriving secondary cities like in the US/Canada. Wealth/business is heavily concentrated in capital cities or major urban centers like GRU. There is not much else feasible to be launched from Madrid in Latin America:

- Mexico: MTY / GDL: already mentioned by IB. It will happen eventually
- Nicaragua: MGA: launch cancelled b/c of the turmoil there
- Colombia: CTG: already mentioned by UX. It will happen eventually
- Brazil: BSB: already mentioned by IB. It will happen eventually when the Brazilian economy fully recovers


You are missing CLO, which could easily sustain 3x from IB on top of the daily CLO-MAD by AV.
 
dcajet
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:01 pm

DalRiada wrote:
You should spend a weekend in Dublin so - you’ll almost hear more (Castilian) Spanish in the city centre than English (and definitely more than Irish)!


Isn't there a huge Spaniard expat community living & working in Ireland too?
 
dcajet
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:03 pm

clo1973 wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
It is less risky to add more flights to a well-established destination. Before BA launched new destinations in the US, they quite "maxed out" the demand in trunk routes like JFK. And UX tries from time to time those secondary markets, like Iguazú or San Pedro Sula.

In any case, LatAm is not North America with thriving secondary cities like in the US/Canada. Wealth/business is heavily concentrated in capital cities or major urban centers like GRU. There is not much else feasible to be launched from Madrid in Latin America:

- Mexico: MTY / GDL: already mentioned by IB. It will happen eventually
- Nicaragua: MGA: launch cancelled b/c of the turmoil there
- Colombia: CTG: already mentioned by UX. It will happen eventually
- Brazil: BSB: already mentioned by IB. It will happen eventually when the Brazilian economy fully recovers


You are missing CLO, which could easily sustain 3x from IB on top of the daily CLO-MAD by AV.


Am I confused or didn't Iberia tried and cancelled Cali?
 
DalRiada
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:36 am

dcajet wrote:
DalRiada wrote:
You should spend a weekend in Dublin so - you’ll almost hear more (Castilian) Spanish in the city centre than English (and definitely more than Irish)!


Isn't there a huge Spaniard expat community living & working in Ireland too?


I think there’s a decent amount, although I believe most are people on holidays or over to learn English, but I could be wrong on that count.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:19 am

dcajet wrote:
Isn't there a huge Spaniard expat community living & working in Ireland too?


I don't think Ireland is particularly huge as a destination for Spaniards to work compared to other countries in Europe. However with so many flights catered at Irish tourists to Spain, obviously some Spaniards use those very same flights to visit Ireland.

But Ireland is the most popular destination for high-school students to learn English in summer. By chance, I was in the baggage carousel in T4 a few weeks ago with a ORK-MAD in the carousel next to me, and literally everybody waiting for his/her luggage on that Cork flight was a Spanish teenager.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:27 am

SCQ83 wrote:
But Ireland is the most popular destination for high-school students to learn English in summer. By chance, I was in the baggage carousel in T4 a few weeks ago with a ORK-MAD in the carousel next to me, and literally everybody waiting for his/her luggage on that Cork flight was a Spanish teenager.


Spanish middle classes have always thought that Ireland is a great place to send their children to "improve/practise" (and in some cases to "learn") English. Obviously, parents who do this must have no idea about accents, etc. The fact that they usually send their children for one or two weeks and expect significant results only makes it more hilarious.

Jokes aside, Ireland is a great place to visit and I still have to meet someone who has come back with lukewarm feelings.
 
Summa767
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:29 am

Southamerica wrote:
Avianca has up to 3 DAILY flights on the BOG-MAD route. All scattered throughout the day in excellent timing and all operated by top-notch 787s with an excellent hard product onboard. Tough to compete with that, and with Air Europa's daily 787 frequency on top of it.

The choice of frequencies is definitely a competitive factor, not least in order to do connections, both domestic and with the region.. I don't think that AV has anything on IB on onboard product. The A340-600 may be older, but with the cabin refurb they are pretty sharp and feel more comfortable than the B787 with that 3:3:3 configuration. Similarly with the 2:4:2 of the IB's A332s. As for soft product, IB catering is better quality. The image of an AV flight attendant serving wine from a bottle a few drips a a time and a look of constipation as they do so (Obvs IB has individual bottles).
Not to mention that AV's operation has been very unreliable in recent months. MAD-CLO and MAD-MDE have only just gone back to AV's own airctaft after almost a year of being done by Wamos and Evelop with much older planes, nos PTVs in many cases. Even with the 788 operation, the longer route that they are having to take because of the RR engines issues means that delays are very common.

dcajet wrote:
Am I confused or didn't Iberia tried and cancelled Cali?

They did. It was part of a triangular with MDE.
It was always going to be difficult for IB to compete with a daily non-stop. By offering a dedicated MAD-MDE flight with the same number of frequencies as AV (3 weekly) they appear to be doing much better. Business loads have increased and load factors seem healthy.
Undoubtedly CLO generated more volume of passengers than MDE, but I guess that yields must be lower and hence IB's move. I think CLO that it would be a good destination for Air Europa, though.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:43 am

jmmadrid wrote:
Spanish middle classes have always thought that Ireland is a great place to send their children to "improve/practise" (and in some cases to "learn") English. Obviously, parents who do this must have no idea about accents, etc. The fact that they usually send their children for one or two weeks and expect significant results only makes it more hilarious.


Most teenagers are sent for a full month (specially in July). This might have changed in recent years though.

As for Ireland, this has been going for decades. I imagine twenty years ago when Ireland was poorer than the UK, it was easier to find host families in IE instead of the UK to accomodate those students for a fee. Also Ireland being a catholic country would be more suitable for students at many private schools in Spain that are managed by the Catholic church.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:01 pm

In Colombia IB is in a position to be what TP is to Brazil.
Not only BOG, CLO, MDE and CTG easily support MAD flights but even ADZ, BAQ, PEI, BGA and perhaps CUC might be in a position to support some level of service to MAD.
(Same could be said for AV between BOG and AGP, LPA/TFS, SCQ, VLC in the near future. PMI may be a big airport in Spain but BOG-PMI makes no sense.)

If Venezuela wasn't in such dire straits, MAR should be on IB radar.

Question: Who's flying between MAD and POP/STI in the Dominican Republic?
 
dcajet
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:19 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
In Colombia IB is in a position to be what TP is to Brazil.
Not only BOG, CLO, MDE and CTG easily support MAD flights but even ADZ, BAQ, PEI, BGA and perhaps CUC might be in a position to support some level of service to MAD.
(Same could be said for AV between BOG and AGP, LPA/TFS, SCQ, VLC in the near future. PMI may be a big airport in Spain but BOG-PMI makes no sense.)

If Venezuela wasn't in such dire straits, MAR should be on IB radar.

Question: Who's flying between MAD and POP/STI in the Dominican Republic?


No offense, but you are either WAY overestimating the demand and profitability of these secondary cities vis-a-vis the costs of an intercontinental operation to Madrid or Spain or else I'm unsure what to think...
 
a350lover
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:55 pm

dcajet wrote:
But you are comparing AV and IB at BOG like apples to apples. Fact is Avianca relies on feed from multiple stations across South and Central America to make those 3 flights work. There is no way BOG alone could support that kind of frequency (3x d). A whole different operation from Iberia's.


True

Anyways, what's the level of cooperation between Avianca and Iberia? As far as I know, I am pretty sure they codeshare quite a lot, so maybe Iberia does not see any need to serve with its own metal what they already reach via codesharing flights with AV?
 
dfdubflyer
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:45 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
jmmadrid wrote:
Spanish middle classes have always thought that Ireland is a great place to send their children to "improve/practise" (and in some cases to "learn") English. Obviously, parents who do this must have no idea about accents, etc. The fact that they usually send their children for one or two weeks and expect significant results only makes it more hilarious.


Most teenagers are sent for a full month (specially in July). This might have changed in recent years though.

As for Ireland, this has been going for decades. I imagine twenty years ago when Ireland was poorer than the UK, it was easier to find host families in IE instead of the UK to accomodate those students for a fee. Also Ireland being a catholic country would be more suitable for students at many private schools in Spain that are managed by the Catholic church.


I was in Dublin in 2010 when Spain won the World Cup and you would have thought I was in Spain. There were thousands of Spanish teenagers going wild and decked in their flag. Very cool to see.... but Ireland is certainly an interesting accent to learn English from.
 
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julianrv
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:36 pm

a350lover wrote:
[
Anyways, what's the level of cooperation between Avianca and Iberia? As far as I know, I am pretty sure they codeshare quite a lot, so maybe Iberia does not see any need to serve with its own metal what they already reach via codesharing flights with AV?


AV (Colombia) and IB reciprocally codeshare on each other domestic network but no codeshares to the rest of Europe or South America beyond that. Interestingly IB also has been codesharing on LAN Colombia flights for some time now but has kept collaboration with Avianca as I guess they feel their domestic network is stronger. We'll see what happens with them if the LATAM-IAG proposed JV comes into place but after the approval from Brazilian authorities we haven't had news about that for some time.

IB also keeps a bunch of codeshares with Avianca subsidiaries in Central America that date back to TACA days, I think they also used to codeshare to Central America ex-MIA but doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
 
a350lover
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:49 am

Anyone knows when are the next A350s due to be received?
 
tobsw
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:19 am

a350lover wrote:
Anyone knows when are the next A350s due to be received?


January, April and May.
 
a350lover
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:33 am

tobsw wrote:
a350lover wrote:
Anyone knows when are the next A350s due to be received?


January, April and May.


1 each of those months? That'll make a total of 5. All together with the current 2 latests A320neo which IB received too, looks like they will have a decent renovated fleet both for the short and long-haul ops. Further news should come soon...
 
tobsw
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:08 am

Yes, 1 frame each month. Long haul fleet will increase ... short haul I've heard some A319 will leave the fleet. Not sure what the implication of this is (maybe more A320 neo/ leased ceo) mainly due to the agreement with IB pilots and IB Express fleet, that 1:1 rule (1 frame for IB Express - one frame of IB).

There's been published an "interesting" article in the spanish finance newspaper CincoDias about IB's routes to Asia (https://cincodias.elpais.com/cincodias/ ... 72223.html, in spanish). They discuss the good performance of Tokyo's flight. They also say Shanghai is "balanced" and are discussing/searching for codeshare partners in the region.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:27 am

dcajet wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
In Colombia IB is in a position to be what TP is to Brazil.
Not only BOG, CLO, MDE and CTG easily support MAD flights but even ADZ, BAQ, PEI, BGA and perhaps CUC might be in a position to support some level of service to MAD.
(Same could be said for AV between BOG and AGP, LPA/TFS, SCQ, VLC in the near future. PMI may be a big airport in Spain but BOG-PMI makes no sense.)

If Venezuela wasn't in such dire straits, MAR should be on IB radar.

Question: Who's flying between MAD and POP/STI in the Dominican Republic?


No offense, but you are either WAY overestimating the demand and profitability of these secondary cities vis-a-vis the costs of an intercontinental operation to Madrid or Spain or else I'm unsure what to think...


Brazil has +200 million people, so it has a relatively large number of big cities. Are you comparing Belo Horizonte to Pereira?

Avianca tried BOG-ALC a few years ago and it failed. The Comunidad Valenciana has the third largest community of Colombians in Spain (after Madrid and just shy of Catalonia). Murcia (for which ALC is very convenient) has the third largest community of Ecuadorians (most of them working in the agricultural industry there) after Madrid and Catalonia. So despite this large VFR component of Colombians and Ecuadorians around ALC, it couldn't work. And outside Madrid, Catalonia and the Comunidad Valenciana those migrant communities are more sparse.

Madrid has also by far the largest VFR component to Colombia and the countries around. For instance, almost 40% of the total Peruvians living in Spain live in Madrid (despite having around 15% of the total country population). Most of the Venezuelans moving to Spain right now (hot topic) are moving to Madrid and now there are twice the number of Venezuelans in Madrid than in Catalonia. Not to mention that increasingly many Venezuelans, Mexicans and Colombians are making Madrid a kind of "new Miami". ( https://www.economiadigital.es/directiv ... 4_102.html / http://www.elmundo.es/economia/vivienda ... b459c.html ). So with some exceptions like Argentinians (traditionally more geared towards Barcelona), VFR traffic to Spain is very Madrid-centric and this is becoming even more extreme.

Then extremely good communications in Spain play a role. For instance, Madrid-Alicante (to continue with ALC) is flown multiple daily with Iberia (Air Nostrum) and Air Europa to MAD for connections. High-speed train is less than 2 hours multiple times a day to Madrid, and with advance you can get tickets for maybe 20 euros. And coaches (which are now quite confortable and very cheap to compete with the much faster high speed trains) would be maybe 5 hours. So there are dozens of ways a day to reach basically anywhere in Spain to MAD in a safe, quick, convenient and cheap manner. Nothing comparable to Latin America where inter-city communication is often expensive, slow and tedious.

The only logical addition IMO would be Canarias because of the back-track (LatAm - MAD - LPA/TFN). But that would be need something more creative, like narrow-body planes that could reach Canarias from Colombia, or something like Norwegian which had talked about opening a base there to connect to the Americas. I can't see Iberia doing anything in Canarias.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:49 am

notdownnlocked wrote:
Kadish wrote:
Good news for them. But every single time i read news like this im tempted to buy them a global map so they could see there r more places for opening new routes....n the same goes for ux.



Good luck with that. You will need to change the mindset of their passengers who will dish out their dollars only to arrive at a destination that speaks their own language. Most people will not travel to another country that speaks a different language unless they are within a tour group. Hence the hoards of people that travel from the USA to England or the hoards that fly EZE-MAD.


I really don't have an issue with language barriers. We have cell phones and Google translate these days. And I'm not the only person who understands that technology is a game changer.

Not to mention most native English speaking North Americans in the millennial generation and younger have at least a rudimentary understanding of at least one Latin based language (Spanish is more common in the south and French in the north). I've found my knowledge of French to be helpful in quickly learning basic Spanish and Portuguese.
 
a350lover
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:44 pm

tobsw wrote:
Yes, 1 frame each month. Long haul fleet will increase ... short haul I've heard some A319 will leave the fleet. Not sure what the implication of this is (maybe more A320 neo/ leased ceo) mainly due to the agreement with IB pilots and IB Express fleet, that 1:1 rule (1 frame for IB Express - one frame of IB).


Interesting... all together, IB's fleet will probably add then around 4-5 planes by next year (3 A350s for Iberia, 1 A330 to operate for LEVEL in BCN), that definitely should mean some more increases or new routes if they keep the A340s. Don't they have any other options for A330s at all?

Asia was on the cards for Iberia for a while and they seem to eventually have made the route to Japan profitable (increases to 5x/w this fall). I wouldn't be surprised to see LEVEL entering the market too with flights from BCN.
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 5067
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:25 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
In Colombia IB is in a position to be what TP is to Brazil.
Not only BOG, CLO, MDE and CTG easily support MAD flights but even ADZ, BAQ, PEI, BGA and perhaps CUC might be in a position to support some level of service to MAD.
(Same could be said for AV between BOG and AGP, LPA/TFS, SCQ, VLC in the near future. PMI may be a big airport in Spain but BOG-PMI makes no sense.)

If Venezuela wasn't in such dire straits, MAR should be on IB radar.

Question: Who's flying between MAD and POP/STI in the Dominican Republic?


No offense, but you are either WAY overestimating the demand and profitability of these secondary cities vis-a-vis the costs of an intercontinental operation to Madrid or Spain or else I'm unsure what to think...


Brazil has +200 million people, so it has a relatively large number of big cities. Are you comparing Belo Horizonte to Pereira?

Avianca tried BOG-ALC a few years ago and it failed. The Comunidad Valenciana has the third largest community of Colombians in Spain (after Madrid and just shy of Catalonia). Murcia (for which ALC is very convenient) has the third largest community of Ecuadorians (most of them working in the agricultural industry there) after Madrid and Catalonia. So despite this large VFR component of Colombians and Ecuadorians around ALC, it couldn't work. And outside Madrid, Catalonia and the Comunidad Valenciana those migrant communities are more sparse.

Madrid has also by far the largest VFR component to Colombia and the countries around. For instance, almost 40% of the total Peruvians living in Spain live in Madrid (despite having around 15% of the total country population). Most of the Venezuelans moving to Spain right now (hot topic) are moving to Madrid and now there are twice the number of Venezuelans in Madrid than in Catalonia. Not to mention that increasingly many Venezuelans, Mexicans and Colombians are making Madrid a kind of "new Miami". ( https://www.economiadigital.es/directiv ... 4_102.html / http://www.elmundo.es/economia/vivienda ... b459c.html ). So with some exceptions like Argentinians (traditionally more geared towards Barcelona), VFR traffic to Spain is very Madrid-centric and this is becoming even more extreme.

Then extremely good communications in Spain play a role. For instance, Madrid-Alicante (to continue with ALC) is flown multiple daily with Iberia (Air Nostrum) and Air Europa to MAD for connections. High-speed train is less than 2 hours multiple times a day to Madrid, and with advance you can get tickets for maybe 20 euros. And coaches (which are now quite confortable and very cheap to compete with the much faster high speed trains) would be maybe 5 hours. So there are dozens of ways a day to reach basically anywhere in Spain to MAD in a safe, quick, convenient and cheap manner. Nothing comparable to Latin America where inter-city communication is often expensive, slow and tedious.

The only logical addition IMO would be Canarias because of the back-track (LatAm - MAD - LPA/TFN). But that would be need something more creative, like narrow-body planes that could reach Canarias from Colombia, or something like Norwegian which had talked about opening a base there to connect to the Americas. I can't see Iberia doing anything in Canarias.


Even from Argentina, with its huge ties with Galicia, a flight to Santiago de Compostela or A Coruña struggles. AR used to fly on Mondays a 747-200 non stop service to A Coruña (or was it SCQ? I forget now) but the flight was marketed by Llongueiras & Llongueiras, a Buenos Aires wholesaler, and most paxs on the flight were retirees with their trips paid by the Xunta. MAD, with its superb connections (air, road and rail) to the whole peninsula, works fine as the entry point to Spain, with BCN being an important one too, given the ties of the city and the Generalitat with Argentina.
 
Summa767
Posts: 1848
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:55 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
The only logical addition IMO would be Canarias because of the back-track (LatAm - MAD - LPA/TFN). But that would be need something more creative, like narrow-body planes that could reach Canarias from Colombia, or something like Norwegian which had talked about opening a base there to connect to the Americas. I can't see Iberia doing anything in Canarias.


I hope that a LPA-BOG happens. On top of the 787-8 due in the next few weeks that will allow the new BOG-MUC route, AV is due to receive 3 787-9s next year. I guess that BOG-LHR and one of the 3 dailies BOG-MAD would use them, freeing 787-8s for new BOG-BCN frequencies that has consistently high LFs; a new European destination (Rome/Paris?), but perhaps a new Spanish destination too.

On the subject of Spain-Colombia traffic, it has come to my attention that there is now an open skies agreement between the 2 countries, so that opens the door for Latam to open flights to Spain if it so wishes up to a couple of months ago all 37 available frequencies had been maxed out by AV. On the Spanish side there were still 20 available, but now there's no need to count.
With its new aircraft IB could increase frequencies to BOG even if later than it had announced. A 4th weekly to MDE could work too.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:57 pm

dcajet wrote:
Even from Argentina, with its huge ties with Galicia, a flight to Santiago de Compostela or A Coruña struggles. AR used to fly on Mondays a 747-200 non stop service to A Coruña (or was it SCQ? I forget now) but the flight was marketed by Llongueiras & Llongueiras, a Buenos Aires wholesaler, and most paxs on the flight were retirees with their trips paid by the Xunta. MAD, with its superb connections (air, road and rail) to the whole peninsula, works fine as the entry point to Spain, with BCN being an important one too, given the ties of the city and the Generalitat with Argentina.


It was SCQ; there were also flights to Caracas with Conviasa. LCG (A Coruña) is a minor airport that cannot handle a 747. SCQ is 24h, can handle anything and due its location is very often a point of diversion for flights (medical, tech) between Spain/US or Northern Europe/Canary Islands. SCQ, on top of being the busiest airport in the region is the most central to Galicia which probably worked better for Galician migrants to Argentina (since many will come from rural areas in Ourense or Lugo so geographically is central for everybody).

In any case, my feeling is that those Argentinians do not keep a lot of links to Galicia (other than those that have Spanish passport and will move to Europe but to places like Madrid, Barcelona or Milan). Galicians in Mexico seem to keep more links to their homeland and travel more often between Mexico and Spain: http://www.elmundo.es/viajes/espana/201 ... b458c.html Maybe because overall those migrants to Mexico have became much wealthier than their counterparts in Argentina and have the means to travel TATL often? Don't really know.

But definitely those "weekly" flights do not make any sense with all the connections today via MAD and high-speed trains/motorways/coaches.
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 5067
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:15 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
dcajet wrote:

In any case, my feeling is that those Argentinians do not keep a lot of links to Galicia (other than those that have Spanish passport and will move to Europe but to places like Madrid, Barcelona or Milan). Galicians in Mexico seem to keep more links to their homeland and travel more often between Mexico and Spain: http://www.elmundo.es/viajes/espana/201 ... b458c.html Maybe because overall those migrants to Mexico have became much wealthier than their counterparts in Argentina and have the means to travel TATL often? Don't really know.



Ties with Galicia are many, and alive and well in Argentina. In fact, I feel I must challenge your theory. On a per capita basis, Argentinians earn more and travel more than Mexicans. There are many more Galicians in Argentina than in Mexico and they come in all shades of wealth: the very rich, the rich, the middle class and the not so rich. But we digress... The day we see the PSOE and the PP campaigning in Mexico as they do in Buenos Aires come the general elections... or Galician politicians courting the local vote... but we digress...
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2643
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:07 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Even from Argentina, with its huge ties with Galicia, a flight to Santiago de Compostela or A Coruña struggles. AR used to fly on Mondays a 747-200 non stop service to A Coruña (or was it SCQ? I forget now) but the flight was marketed by Llongueiras & Llongueiras, a Buenos Aires wholesaler, and most paxs on the flight were retirees with their trips paid by the Xunta. MAD, with its superb connections (air, road and rail) to the whole peninsula, works fine as the entry point to Spain, with BCN being an important one too, given the ties of the city and the Generalitat with Argentina.


It was SCQ; there were also flights to Caracas with Conviasa. LCG (A Coruña) is a minor airport that cannot handle a 747. SCQ is 24h, can handle anything and due its location is very often a point of diversion for flights (medical, tech) between Spain/US or Northern Europe/Canary Islands. SCQ, on top of being the busiest airport in the region is the most central to Galicia which probably worked better for Galician migrants to Argentina (since many will come from rural areas in Ourense or Lugo so geographically is central for everybody).
.


It was actually Viasa that for many years flew from CCS to SCQ. From 1981 to 1996. Most recently up to 2012, Air Europa made a stop in SCQ in the Summers on its way to/from CCS and MAD. The flights were stopped not just due to the crisis in Venezuela, but passenger demand kept weakening year over year.
 
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Embajador3
Posts: 355
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:05 am

Actually, not only AR flew to SCQ, they also flew to VGO various charter flights using a mix of A310s and A342s.

Here is a link to a picture of AR's A342 in VGO.

https://www.google.es/search?biw=1366&b ... 38wnVL-hYM:
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2643
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:00 am

Embajador3 wrote:
Actually, not only AR flew to SCQ, they also flew to VGO various charter flights using a mix of A310s and A342s.

Here is a link to a picture of AR's A342 in VGO.

https://www.google.es/search?biw=1366&b ... 38wnVL-hYM:


Those were scheduled diversions due to the fact that SCQ was undergoing runway maintenance and couldn't accommodate widebodies.
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:17 am

sabby wrote:
Mex87 wrote:
Sorry, can´t recall where, but I read that Iberia won´t send the A359 to MEX and UIO -two of the airline´s top routes- because the plane would struggle to haul all those passengers and freight, an achievement done almost effortlessly by the A340-600. Instead, they remarked that A346s were recently upgraded to offer better services on long haul routes.

That makes sense. Iberia configured the A359s very dense and those two destinations require more performance for hot and high conditions.

While I understand the one-engine-out advantage of a quad, is it enough to require IB to use the A346 vs the A359? After all, AM flies the B789 between MEX and MAD. Is AM taking a hit to cargo capability, or are they blocking off seats?
 
a350lover
Posts: 993
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:21 am

aerolimani wrote:

While I understand the one-engine-out advantage of a quad, is it enough to require IB to use the A346 vs the A359? After all, AM flies the B789 between MEX and MAD. Is AM taking a hit to cargo capability, or are they blocking off seats?[/quote]

This is a very interesting point which I haven't figure it out yet. I am not sure how likely IB can get rid off its current A340s and leave it all for the A350s. Obviously at some point those A340s will have to go... but I don't know what version of the A350 is comparable to the powerful A340, and then suitable for Iberia hot & high destinations.
 
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Embajador3
Posts: 355
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Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:35 am

LatinPlane wrote:
Embajador3 wrote:
Actually, not only AR flew to SCQ, they also flew to VGO various charter flights using a mix of A310s and A342s.

Here is a link to a picture of AR's A342 in VGO.

https://www.google.es/search?biw=1366&b ... 38wnVL-hYM:


Those were scheduled diversions due to the fact that SCQ was undergoing runway maintenance and couldn't accommodate widebodies.


Yes, but AFAIK, I recall reading on the local media that there were charter flights from Argentina to SCQ and VGO during the summer months, but I won't swear on that since that was over 10 years ago.
 
sabby
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:48 am

aerolimani wrote:
While I understand the one-engine-out advantage of a quad, is it enough to require IB to use the A346 vs the A359? After all, AM flies the B789 between MEX and MAD. Is AM taking a hit to cargo capability, or are they blocking off seats?

The answer is Payload range. The A346 has 11T more payload in addition to the more thrust available for hot and high conditions. Also, the distance between MEX-MAD is around 5000 nautical mile which is right around the edge of A359 max payload range and that is in sea level performance. MEX is a hot and high airport (MAD isn't at sea level either and it can get pretty hot in summer) so effective range would be even less. As for the comparison of AM 789 vs IB 359, the 789 is configured lighter than typical (274 vs 290) where as the A359 is configured with more seats than typical (348 vs 325 ) which mean less available freight and range.

@a350lover I guess when the A35Ks come to IB, they'll retire those A346s.
 
a350lover
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:32 am

sabby wrote:

@a350lover I guess when the A35Ks come to IB, they'll retire those A346s.


Not sure when are they coming. Via their official Twitter account Iberia just said earlier this morning they don't have plans to retire the A340s yet.
 
sabby
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:43 am

a350lover wrote:
sabby wrote:

@a350lover I guess when the A35Ks come to IB, they'll retire those A346s.


Not sure when are they coming. Via their official Twitter account Iberia just said earlier this morning they don't have plans to retire the A340s yet.

That sounds about right. Their A346 fleet is not that old, only 3 are more than 15 years old and 5 are younger than 9 years old. If they are utilizing the full potential of the aircraft (flying premium trunk routes with full cargo) which are probably all paid off, they don't need new fleet very soon. Also, keep in mind that the A35K production is very slow at the moment and the first 18 A35K firm orders of IAG would go to BA till 2022. The options will execute after that so another 5 years or so we'll see the A346 fleet at IB if not more.
 
Kadish
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am

Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:39 pm

NRT will go daily sooner or later...N those 346 r fully paid n belong to IB so must last as Long as possible if oil price does not increase a lot. They could be use even in los yielding markets..
 
a350lover
Posts: 993
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Iberia adds more flights to Latin America

Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:38 pm

Kadish wrote:
NRT will go daily sooner or later...N those 346 r fully paid n belong to IB so must last as Long as possible if oil price does not increase a lot. They could be use even in los yielding markets..


JNB should become daily at some point too.

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