slcguy
Posts: 347
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:32 am

Don't think narrow body verses wide body makes that much difference on a longer flight. It's more on the airlines seating arrangement and service, too many seats abreast or too little seat pitch will make any aircraft uncomfortable. Prior to the 1970s all long haul was on narrow bodies, primarily 707 and DC8 jets in the 1960s and props like the Connie, DC7 and Stratocruiser in the 1950s. All these flights had good inflight service and at least 34" seat pitch in Y and 40" plus in first. Comfortable and luxurious for the time and unheard of now for most passengers. As for entertainment, there was looking out the window, reading a magazine, eating, playing games or simply taking a nap was enough for the passengers unlike the current generation that go into withdrawl if they don't have some sort of electronic device/entertainment for more than 30 minutes! Oh, and yes I know on some airlines and planes there are premium cabins with lay flat seats or even suites but the average passenger can't afford them, most people are stuck in a 17 inch wide seat and 31" seat pitch and a bag of pretzels.
Last edited by slcguy on Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
M564038
Posts: 185
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:42 am

Nothern europeans have been going to the sun for 6-7-8 hours in 737s and A320s for 30 years allready.
People gladly do it, and not one single person has ever elected to not go because their Gran Canaria flight taking them from -20C to +20C was flown with a 737/A320 instead of an DC10 or A330.
5-10 years before that, the same routes was DC8s, 727s and 707s.

This discussion is absolutely meaningless. There are decades of precedence.
 
KFLLCFII
Posts: 3478
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:47 am

AleksW wrote:
KFLLCFII wrote:
dcajet wrote:
A 3-month old MAX 8, LV-HKW, will be doing the flight. Here's a snap shot of AR's MAX 8 coach cabin, standard 32-inch pitch. There is a separate J cabin. As mentioned earlier, it is equipped with WiFi entertainment, USB ports in Y and both USB & power outlets in J.

Image


Amazingly, that layout looks remarkably similar to this one from a widebody aircraft (which is allegedly therefore much more comfortable):

Image

What is the width of the 747 upper cabin? Similar to 737? In any way - the 747 looks better to me and really cozy. I really like the yellowish lights. This modern lights sometimes are too white and sterile.


For the 747 upper cabin, this thread says 3.46m for seats + aisle (narrower at the crown, side-bin boxes between the window seats/wall taking up the additional fuselage width below the windows, hard to use the side panel for a sleeping-rest):

viewtopic.php?t=759575

This page lists the 737 / A320 cabin widths, respectively, at 3.53m (139") / 3.71m (146"):

https://www.airlinereporter.com/2010/11 ... oeing-737/

The narrowbodies clearly have the edge.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
AleksW
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:41 am

KFLLCFII wrote:
AleksW wrote:
KFLLCFII wrote:

Amazingly, that layout looks remarkably similar to this one from a widebody aircraft (which is allegedly therefore much more comfortable):

Image

What is the width of the 747 upper cabin? Similar to 737? In any way - the 747 looks better to me and really cozy. I really like the yellowish lights. This modern lights sometimes are too white and sterile.


For the 747 upper cabin, this thread says 3.46m for seats + aisle (narrower at the crown, side-bin boxes between the window seats/wall taking up the additional fuselage width below the windows, hard to use the side panel for a sleeping-rest):

viewtopic.php?t=759575

This page lists the 737 / A320 cabin widths, respectively, at 3.53m (139") / 3.71m (146"):

https://www.airlinereporter.com/2010/11 ... oeing-737/

The narrowbodies clearly have the edge.


Great thanks. After all, many airlines had their business class on the upper deck of the 747. Also perhaps the lower ceiling makes the cabin look wider? To me, these fabric seats look amazing. I loved them on the 737 too. Too bad it's all about efficiency these days. Not much space left for aesthetics.
 
Max Q
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:50 am

The bigger the better


Whether I’m flying it or riding in the back thank you
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
Max Q
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:53 am

AleksW wrote:
KFLLCFII wrote:
AleksW wrote:
What is the width of the 747 upper cabin? Similar to 737? In any way - the 747 looks better to me and really cozy. I really like the yellowish lights. This modern lights sometimes are too white and sterile.


For the 747 upper cabin, this thread says 3.46m for seats + aisle (narrower at the crown, side-bin boxes between the window seats/wall taking up the additional fuselage width below the windows, hard to use the side panel for a sleeping-rest):

viewtopic.php?t=759575

This page lists the 737 / A320 cabin widths, respectively, at 3.53m (139") / 3.71m (146"):

https://www.airlinereporter.com/2010/11 ... oeing-737/

The narrowbodies clearly have the edge.


Great thanks. After all, many airlines had their business class on the upper deck of the 747. Also perhaps the lower ceiling makes the cabin look wider? To me, these fabric seats look amazing. I loved them on the 737 too. Too bad it's all about efficiency these days. Not much space left for aesthetics.




Yes, can’t agree more on the fabric
seats, ban leather ones


Leather is for miniskirts !
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


Guns and the love of them by a loud minority are a malignant and deadly cancer inflicted on American society
 
londonistan
Posts: 87
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:02 pm

Max Q wrote:
The bigger the better


Whether I’m flying it or riding in the back thank you

In the back of a 10-abreast 777? Stuck in the middle 4? No thank you..
 
londonistan
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:19 pm

Max Q wrote:
The bigger the better


Whether I’m flying it or riding in the back thank you

My first 767 flight was Air Canada Toronto - Montreal in 1986 and I remember being amazed at the 2-3-2 configuration at the back. A previous poster mentioned how airline configs can make all the difference to perception. Being crammed in a sardine-can 777 10-across should be made a capital offence IMHO :stirthepot:
 
VC10er
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:02 pm

What airline is that upper deck 747 photo from? What year?!? That putrid green!
As for that comment about a 737 being bumpy: I follow a few airlines on Instagram and I have found many people use Instagram to complain about/to the airline. Most complaints are about delays and lost luggage- but I have seen a good number of people say something like “I flew your airline from A to Z and it was bumpy the whole way, next time I’m only going to fly Lufthansa or XYZ airline”- there are indeed people who think than one airline is more bumpy than another! How stupid can people be?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:23 pm

VC10er wrote:
What airline is that upper deck 747 photo from? What year?!? That putrid green!
As for that comment about a 737 being bumpy: I follow a few airlines on Instagram and I have found many people use Instagram to complain about/to the airline. Most complaints are about delays and lost luggage- but I have seen a good number of people say something like “I flew your airline from A to Z and it was bumpy the whole way, next time I’m only going to fly Lufthansa or XYZ airline”- there are indeed people who think than one airline is more bumpy than another! How stupid can people be?


Very stupid, sadly. :cry:
Whatever
 
dcajet
Topic Author
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:13 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
scheduled at 7:45 block?


Actual flight time is 7 hours.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
travaz
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:58 pm

One of the most fun flights I had was GCN to RNO via LAS, LAX, SFO, EUG in BAe 146. Something like 9 hours. Left GCN at 12 noon ish and arrived RNO about 10 PM. Was a long defunct Airline called TriStar out of LAS. Now that is the AvGeek in me! (1995)
 
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lightsaber
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:55 pm

slcguy wrote:
Don't think narrow body verses wide body makes that much difference on a longer flight. It's more on the airlines seating arrangement and service, too many seats abreast or too little seat pitch will make any aircraft uncomfortable. Prior to the 1970s all long haul was on narrow bodies, primarily 707 and DC8 jets in the 1960s and props like the Connie, DC7 and Stratocruiser in the 1950s. All these flights had good inflight service and at least 34" seat pitch in Y and 40" plus in first. Comfortable and luxurious for the time and unheard of now for most passengers. As for entertainment, there was looking out the window, reading a magazine, eating, playing games or simply taking a nap was enough for the passengers unlike the current generation that go into withdrawl if they don't have some sort of electronic device/entertainment for more than 30 minutes! Oh, and yes I know on some airlines and planes there are premium cabins with lay flat seats or even suites but the average passenger can't afford them, most people are stuck in a 17 inch wide seat and 31" seat pitch and a bag of pretzels.

Frequency and fragmentation for me. Then service then seat.

I remember how we proles we're priced out of that air traffic you are nostalgic about. When you (inflation adjusted) paid more for a coach seat than today's lie flat.. .
I couldn't be more excited about long haul narrowbody flights. I love direct flights.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
grbauc
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:00 pm

dcajet wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Samrnpage wrote:
I get restless on a 2 hour Jet2 737 flight, I dont think I could last 6 hours on a 737, what do you do? They are not 29inch seats are they?


I believe a default 737max has a bit more seatpitch, 30 or maybe even 31 inch. Only the 737max8-200 has a lower seat pitch, but that is not the type used on this flight.

Obviously you have to provide your own entertainment. Bring a tablet and watch a few movies or read a book. Maybe if you're traveling together with someone you can play a few games.

I remember once I flew a 737 together with a friend of mine. We had a chessboard and pieces with us and played a few games during the flight. It literally flew by, and that was a 4 and a half hour flight. Now that's what you call playing chess on a high level. :P


AR's MAX 8s have Wi-Fi entertainment on board, with USB ports in Y and USB & power outlets in J. BYOE.



Wifi is so subjective to when it works and when it works well. I wish the trend would of been to have seat back systems. Maybe WiFi will improve.
 
VC10er
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:42 pm

lightsaber wrote:
slcguy wrote:
Don't think narrow body verses wide body makes that much difference on a longer flight. It's more on the airlines seating arrangement and service, too many seats abreast or too little seat pitch will make any aircraft uncomfortable. Prior to the 1970s all long haul was on narrow bodies, primarily 707 and DC8 jets in the 1960s and props like the Connie, DC7 and Stratocruiser in the 1950s. All these flights had good inflight service and at least 34" seat pitch in Y and 40" plus in first. Comfortable and luxurious for the time and unheard of now for most passengers. As for entertainment, there was looking out the window, reading a magazine, eating, playing games or simply taking a nap was enough for the passengers unlike the current generation that go into withdrawl if they don't have some sort of electronic device/entertainment for more than 30 minutes! Oh, and yes I know on some airlines and planes there are premium cabins with lay flat seats or even suites but the average passenger can't afford them, most people are stuck in a 17 inch wide seat and 31" seat pitch and a bag of pretzels.

Frequency and fragmentation for me. Then service then seat.

I remember how we proles we're priced out of that air traffic you are nostalgic about. When you (inflation adjusted) paid more for a coach seat than today's lie flat.. .
I couldn't be more excited about long haul narrowbody flights. I love direct flights.

Lightsaber


Count me in too! Many years ago for work we were doing research in many European countries. The drill was to always fly to LHR or FRA (sometimes ZRH), then transfer. Now I’ll take the UA 752 non-stop any day! I actually LOVE the intimacy of the smaller tube in business. To be able to take off, get an express dinner, sleep, then wake up just as the engines started to wind down was great- (except I was always in such a deep sleep I wished we had another 3 hours) the first time I flew a 752 over to Europe it “almost” felt like a private jet. If UA uses the 73J’s TATL, I’ll be thrilled.
(Is it certain that the 73J with lie-flat seats can make it to Lisbon/Hamburg/Scotland etc? Perhaps we would see even more NEW service to smaller cities?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
jaxbiz
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:42 pm

Cunard wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
I found myself feeling sick in a 5 hour flight in "Buisness Class" on a Lufthansa A321. Not sure I could stand a long haul in a 737. For me cabin design means a lot to me, hence why I love the 747 so much


And a so called aviation enthusiast finding himself feeling sick on a 5 hour flight in ''Business Class'' on a Lufthansa A321!

Totally pathetic what a total wuss!!!


I wouldn't say that being an aviation enthusiast has much to do with what's going on in the airline industry. The airlines are money enthusiasts and not aviation enthusiasts.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:53 pm

It is awesome that the 737MAX has opened up new Caribbean leisure destinations for Aerolineas Argentina. Anything larger would probably not be viable.

For those complaining about 7 hours in a 737, I think it is a whole lot better than adding 3-4 hours to the journey and having to connect through Panama, Lima or Bogota and breaking the journey into a 5 or 6 hour flight. 11 hours journey time is much less pleasant than a nonstop 7 hour flight in my opinion
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:12 pm

I'm perfectly fine with such a long flight in a single-aisle aircraft. The upsides especially internationally are faster boarding/de-boarding, and faster immigration queues especially if you're entering the US. Of course my experience recently on Delta's 757 JFK-AGP-JFK is much different than this but generally, it will be similar but have much better tech, as for BYOE, nothing is wrong with that unless you're rocking a laptop from 2010 you should have a screen better than most seat backs.
 
tofur
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:33 pm

grbauc wrote:
Wifi is so subjective to when it works and when it works well. I wish the trend would of been to have seat back systems. Maybe WiFi will improve.


I agree with you. Wifi is mainly for the business types, the average passenger does not usually fork over the money for wifi. The streaming option for IFE is variable at best. The new seatback entertainment systems on our 7M8, 787 and 777 are incredibly reliable and state of the art systems. Interactive maps, inflight menu, duty free offerings, games, chat with other passengers, television programs, documentaries and films from the cinema. Passengers do appreciate the amenity.
 
dcajet
Topic Author
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:44 pm

grbauc wrote:
dcajet wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:

I believe a default 737max has a bit more seatpitch, 30 or maybe even 31 inch. Only the 737max8-200 has a lower seat pitch, but that is not the type used on this flight.

Obviously you have to provide your own entertainment. Bring a tablet and watch a few movies or read a book. Maybe if you're traveling together with someone you can play a few games.

I remember once I flew a 737 together with a friend of mine. We had a chessboard and pieces with us and played a few games during the flight. It literally flew by, and that was a 4 and a half hour flight. Now that's what you call playing chess on a high level. :P


AR's MAX 8s have Wi-Fi entertainment on board, with USB ports in Y and USB & power outlets in J. BYOE.



Wifi is so subjective to when it works and when it works well. I wish the trend would of been to have seat back systems. Maybe WiFi will improve.


It's remarkably more cost effective. Not only because of the weight savings but also because it is way easier to maintain. True, it can be sometimes less user friendly and requires passengers to bring their own electronic, but then, who doesn't carry a mobile phone these days?
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
Flighty
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:05 pm

I honestly don’t know what people find better about an A380 full of people versus a 737 that has that same floor area per seat. We are getting so spoiled. Can’t you feel the miracle of jet travel? A small jet takes you on a boutique journey, saving you hours. When I take off in a jet, I still get that thrill that there is no way we can get from point A to point B any faster than this. Compared to riding in a boat or in a sweaty greyhound, a 737 Max is a miracle machine. You are getting the benefit of a $40 million piece of equipment for a couple hundred USD. It is a dream come true imho. You all have forgotten what the alternatives are.
 
ewt340
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:50 pm

For me, it's not about how big or small the aircraft is. It's all about the configuration of the aircraft.

The 3-3 config is horrible. Same goes for 3-3-3 or 3-4-3. The 2-2, 2-3-2 and 2-4-2 are the best options for flying on economy class.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:59 pm

jagraham wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Samrnpage wrote:
I get restless on a 2 hour Jet2 737 flight, I dont think I could last 6 hours on a 737, what do you do? They are not 29inch seats are they?


I believe a default 737max has a bit more seatpitch, 30 or maybe even 31 inch. Only the 737max8-200 has a lower seat pitch, but that is not the type used on this flight.

Obviously you have to provide your own entertainment. Bring a tablet and watch a few movies or read a book. Maybe if you're traveling together with someone you can play a few games.

I remember once I flew a 737 together with a friend of mine. We had a chessboard and pieces with us and played a few games during the flight. It literally flew by, and that was a 4 and a half hour flight. Now that's what you call playing chess on a high level. :P



If you live in Hawaii, as I do, you get used to that type of thing (6 hr flights). It's a little better in a widebody (higher ceiling seems less claustrophobic), but the seat tends to be the same unless you pay extra.


The new Boeing Sky interior is substantially better than previous 737 interiors. It allows for much more room above the aisle and middle seats when the overhead bin is closed. It is possible to stand up in front of the aisle seat when the bin is closed. Shorter adults and children could stand in front of the middle seat.
 
grbauc
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:12 am

dcajet wrote:
grbauc wrote:
dcajet wrote:

AR's MAX 8s have Wi-Fi entertainment on board, with USB ports in Y and USB & power outlets in J. BYOE.



Wifi is so subjective to when it works and when it works well. I wish the trend would of been to have seat back systems. Maybe WiFi will improve.


It's remarkably more cost effective. Not only because of the weight savings but also because it is way easier to maintain. True, it can be sometimes less user friendly and requires passengers to bring their own electronic, but then, who doesn't carry a mobile phone these days?


Yea and sometimes I don't have my charger or the crappy wifi is shit. Seatback was my vote.
 
grbauc
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:14 am

dcajet wrote:
grbauc wrote:
dcajet wrote:

AR's MAX 8s have Wi-Fi entertainment on board, with USB ports in Y and USB & power outlets in J. BYOE.



Wifi is so subjective to when it works and when it works well. I wish the trend would of been to have seat back systems. Maybe WiFi will improve.


It's remarkably more cost effective. Not only because of the weight savings but also because it is way easier to maintain. True, it can be sometimes less user friendly and requires passengers to bring their own electronic, but then, who doesn't carry a mobile phone these days?



of course its more cost effective. Customers with kids and sometime i don't have movies downloaded and the power ports don't work ect. JB made a Airline off Seat back entertainment partly..
 
grbauc
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:16 am

tofur wrote:
grbauc wrote:
Wifi is so subjective to when it works and when it works well. I wish the trend would of been to have seat back systems. Maybe WiFi will improve.


I agree with you. Wifi is mainly for the business types, the average passenger does not usually fork over the money for wifi. The streaming option for IFE is variable at best. The new seatback entertainment systems on our 7M8, 787 and 777 are incredibly reliable and state of the art systems. Interactive maps, inflight menu, duty free offerings, games, chat with other passengers, television programs, documentaries and films from the cinema. Passengers do appreciate the amenity.



Especially when space is tighter and tighter, and we are a ADDICTED society to media. Media is everywhere. They could of partnered with AMAZON on costs to keep costs down.
 
Areopagus
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:29 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:

The new Boeing Sky interior is substantially better than previous 737 interiors. It allows for much more room above the aisle and middle seats when the overhead bin is closed. It is possible to stand up in front of the aisle seat when the bin is closed. Shorter adults and children could stand in front of the middle seat.


No, the new interior is much worse. It robs the window seats of shoulder room. With the old interior, I figured the 737 was better than the 320 despite the narrower seat, because I could always find a recliner setting that would give me more shoulder room fore or aft of the frame. Now the Max is uniformly worse than the 320.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:50 pm

Areopagus wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:

The new Boeing Sky interior is substantially better than previous 737 interiors. It allows for much more room above the aisle and middle seats when the overhead bin is closed. It is possible to stand up in front of the aisle seat when the bin is closed. Shorter adults and children could stand in front of the middle seat.


No, the new interior is much worse. It robs the window seats of shoulder room. With the old interior, I figured the 737 was better than the 320 despite the narrower seat, because I could always find a recliner setting that would give me more shoulder room fore or aft of the frame. Now the Max is uniformly worse than the 320.



I haven't had any of these supposed issues. I'm a pretty in shape guy with broad shoulders and I've never encountered this problem. I still haven't found a A320 series to be more comfortable than a 737 series. Aside from how comfortable the seat itself is and the amount it reclines, I find both planes to be equally as comfortable.

But again, that's a specific seat issue, not a plane one.
Whatever
 
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767333ER
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:00 pm

The cabin is what it is, but I really feel bad for the folks that have to put up with that miserable cockpit or those miserable galleys for that long!
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T
 
kiowa
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:29 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
kiowa wrote:
737s are slow and bumpy by design and size. A 777 travels at about .85 mach routinely. I also find them a bit claustraphobic. Any flight over 2-3 hours is too long in a 737. Just my opinion, but I avoid them when possible.

Utterly ridiculous post.

....not the least of which being that 7hr50min is the same whether you're in a 737 or an SST.


I usually appreciate your posts. This one however is the “utterly ridiculous” one.
.74 Mark is nowhere near the same as .85 mach . It’s really rather simple. If you fly faster, you get there sooner. I am surprised that you don’t get it.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:55 pm

kiowa wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
kiowa wrote:
737s are slow and bumpy by design and size. A 777 travels at about .85 mach routinely. I also find them a bit claustraphobic. Any flight over 2-3 hours is too long in a 737. Just my opinion, but I avoid them when possible.

Utterly ridiculous post.

....not the least of which being that 7hr50min is the same whether you're in a 737 or an SST.


I usually appreciate your posts. This one however is the “utterly ridiculous” one.
.74 Mark is nowhere near the same as .85 mach . It’s really rather simple. If you fly faster, you get there sooner. I am surprised that you don’t get it.


737 MAX cruises at .78 not .74, it's not like you're going to be shaving an hour off the flight on a 777. Winds on that day make all the difference for a flight. The 737 is going to be going just as fast as any other narrowbody (except the 757 which cruises at .8 but really doesn't make a difference). You're really pulling at the straws man
 
dcajet
Topic Author
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:33 am

767333ER wrote:
The cabin is what it is, but I really feel bad for the folks that have to put up with that miserable cockpit or those miserable galleys for that long!


That is the worse aspect of these long flights on the 737 or A320 - or 757 for the matter. There is no crew rest area, so half a row is blocked for the cabin crew, usually behind a curtain... but, passengers will still peep into it, asking the resting crew for water, etc, without realizing that there is a crew member on duty at the galley.... and thay they woke up those in break.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
kiowa
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:13 am

barney captain wrote:
kiowa wrote:
stylo777 wrote:
I dont get why a 7:50 hr flight on a MAX (or any other narrowbody) should be any different to a widebody. You are stuck in a tube, entertain yourself.



737s are slow and bumpy by design and size. A 777 travels at about .85 mach routinely. I also find them a bit claustraphobic. Any flight over 2-3 hours is too long in a 737. Just my opinion, but I avoid them when possible.


Slow and bumpy? Cramped you may have an argument for, but not "slow and bumpy". 777's typically cruise @ .83, 737's @ .79 - a difference of roughly 20kts.
Bumpy? I don't even know how to respond to that one.

If you want speed - ride a 747.


Ok, here are the speed comparisons. and- smaller aircraft bump around more. A smaller boat in the ocean bumps around more than a larger ship. It just does, you do not have to respond.

Airliners Optimum cruising Speeds (Mach)

Boeing 747-400 0.86
Boeing 787 0.85
Boeing 777 0.84
Boeing 767 0.80
Boeing 757 0.80
Boeing 737 -800 0.78
Boeing 737 - 300/400/500 0.74

Airbus 380 0.85
Airbus 340 -300/600 0.82
Airbus 330 0.82
Airbus 320 0.78
Airbus 310 0.78

McDonnell MD-11 0.85
 
questions
Posts: 1946
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:19 am

Max Q wrote:
The bigger the better

Whether I’m flying it or riding in the back thank you


Oh my!!
 
questions
Posts: 1946
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:22 am

dcajet wrote:
767333ER wrote:
The cabin is what it is, but I really feel bad for the folks that have to put up with that miserable cockpit or those miserable galleys for that long!


That is the worse aspect of these long flights on the 737 or A320 - or 757 for the matter. There is no crew rest area, so half a row is blocked for the cabin crew, usually behind a curtain... but, passengers will still peep into it, asking the resting crew for water, etc, without realizing that there is a crew member on duty at the galley.... and thay they woke up those in break.


OMG... these are the same passengers who make their way to the front of the aircraft... like zombies, feeling the galley walls and cockpit door looking for the lav!
 
AtomicGarden
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:57 am

dcajet wrote:
767333ER wrote:
The cabin is what it is, but I really feel bad for the folks that have to put up with that miserable cockpit or those miserable galleys for that long!


That is the worse aspect of these long flights on the 737 or A320 - or 757 for the matter. There is no crew rest area, so half a row is blocked for the cabin crew, usually behind a curtain... but, passengers will still peep into it, asking the resting crew for water, etc, without realizing that there is a crew member on duty at the galley.... and thay they woke up those in break.


At least the layover must be at a nice all inclusive hotel on the beach.
You killed a black astronaut, Cyril! That's like killing a unicorn!
 
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AirlineCritic
Posts: 1628
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:07 pm

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:50 am

We don't need to call other members names.

And yes, 0.78 vs. 0.86 is a difference, and on long trips it does matter.

I love aircraft and aviation, but do prefer widebody for longer trips. Even if the seat area and size are the same* ... there just seems to be more other space. For instance, if one aisle is blocked you can cross over to the other one to go to the bathroom.

*) Although often one has more seat space in a widebody... I like the A380 in particular.
 
barney captain
Posts: 2192
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:47 pm

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:40 am

kiowa wrote:
barney captain wrote:
kiowa wrote:


737s are slow and bumpy by design and size. A 777 travels at about .85 mach routinely. I also find them a bit claustraphobic. Any flight over 2-3 hours is too long in a 737. Just my opinion, but I avoid them when possible.


Slow and bumpy? Cramped you may have an argument for, but not "slow and bumpy". 777's typically cruise @ .83, 737's @ .79 - a difference of roughly 20kts.
Bumpy? I don't even know how to respond to that one.

If you want speed - ride a 747.


Ok, here are the speed comparisons. and- smaller aircraft bump around more. A smaller boat in the ocean bumps around more than a larger ship. It just does, you do not have to respond.

Airliners Optimum cruising Speeds (Mach)

Boeing 747-400 0.86
Boeing 787 0.85
Boeing 777 0.84
Boeing 767 0.80
Boeing 757 0.80
Boeing 737 -800 0.78
Boeing 737 - 300/400/500 0.74

Airbus 380 0.85
Airbus 340 -300/600 0.82
Airbus 330 0.82
Airbus 320 0.78
Airbus 310 0.78

McDonnell MD-11 0.85



You highlighted the wrong aircraft - the world has moved onto NG's and MAX's, so your Classic comparison is useless.

The MAX I flew tonight had an econ of .795, as did the 800 and 700 I flew yesterday - within .005 mach of a widebody 767. The wind makes far more difference than that. By far.

You too don't have to respond (heaven forbid we get into a real discussion about wing loading as opposed to "bumping around").
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 12301
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:44 am

kiowa wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
kiowa wrote:
737s are slow and bumpy by design and size. A 777 travels at about .85 mach routinely. I also find them a bit claustraphobic. Any flight over 2-3 hours is too long in a 737. Just my opinion, but I avoid them when possible.

Utterly ridiculous post.

....not the least of which being that 7hr50min is the same whether you're in a 737 or an SST.

I usually appreciate your posts. This one however is the “utterly ridiculous” one.
.74 Mark is nowhere near the same as .85 mach . It’s really rather simple. If you fly faster, you get there sooner. I am surprised that you don’t get it.


Read it again dude.......

Review Reply#8 if you're still lost. Different person telling you the same thing.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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CARST
Posts: 1546
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Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:05 am

dcajet wrote:
PatrickZ80 wrote:
Samrnpage wrote:
I get restless on a 2 hour Jet2 737 flight, I dont think I could last 6 hours on a 737, what do you do? They are not 29inch seats are they?


I believe a default 737max has a bit more seatpitch, 30 or maybe even 31 inch. Only the 737max8-200 has a lower seat pitch, but that is not the type used on this flight.

Obviously you have to provide your own entertainment. Bring a tablet and watch a few movies or read a book. Maybe if you're traveling together with someone you can play a few games.

I remember once I flew a 737 together with a friend of mine. We had a chessboard and pieces with us and played a few games during the flight. It literally flew by, and that was a 4 and a half hour flight. Now that's what you call playing chess on a high level. :P


AR's MAX 8s have Wi-Fi entertainment on board, with USB ports in Y and USB & power outlets in J. BYOE.


Just to nitpick a bit: it's BYOD, bring your own device, because entertainment is provided via Wi-Fi as you mentioned yourself.

If it there would be no Wi-Fi entertainment provided, then we would be talking about BYOE or BYODE, bring your own (device &) entertainment.

;)
 
jodieellis
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:34 am

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:11 am

Samrnpage wrote:
I get restless on a 2 hour Jet2 737 flight, I dont think I could last 6 hours on a 737, what do you do? They are not 29inch seats are they?

Looks like, and their MAX has more uncomfortable seats unlike other airline's Economy.
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:03 am

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:48 am

Cunard wrote:
I want the flight to last as long as possible regardless of the aircraft as I thoroughly enjoy being 35,000 feet in the air looking out of the window for the full duration of the flight


Eh, some long sectors can get old pretty fast. 8 hours into a 14 hour flight recently and I realized I still had the equivalent of a TATL to go. If I flew premium cabins I'd probably feel differently with actually being able to sleep for a bit.
 
JayBCNLON
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:13 pm

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:11 pm

Max Q wrote:
What’s with the trend towards leather?
..


Last longer, smell better, exhude sense of luxury.... can be a fetish ;)
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 3923
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:37 pm

JayBCNLON wrote:
Max Q wrote:
What’s with the trend towards leather?
..


Last longer, smell better, exhude sense of luxury.... can be a fetish ;)


Easier to clean and maintain too.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:57 am

Last decade, I regularly flew coach on Austrian/Lauda 738's from DXB to VIE...usually close to 6 hour flights. The seats and service were fantastic...much better than any EK 777, LH 340 or BA 747 flight I experienced.

That being said, Singapore 777 coach was practically business class in comparison.
What the...?
 
TranscendZac
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:50 pm

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:12 am

Why aren't the A32XNEO being placed on long haul the way 737MAX are? They have equal or better range and are better suited to long haul with the higher bypass engines.
Zac
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1543
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:19 am

TranscendZac wrote:
Why aren't the A32XNEO being placed on long haul the way 737MAX are? They have equal or better range and are better suited to long haul with the higher bypass engines.


Because in reality, maybe the 737MAX is a bit better.
Whatever
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3638
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:25 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
TranscendZac wrote:
Why aren't the A32XNEO being placed on long haul the way 737MAX are? They have equal or better range and are better suited to long haul with the higher bypass engines.


Because in reality, maybe the 737MAX is a bit better.


You may be accused of blasphemy for pointing out that 737MAX are being used on longer routes than A321neos.
 
Yossarian22
Posts: 158
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:25 am

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:26 am

londonistan wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
I guess it is not worse than a horrible UA or AA 757 doing TATL. For my that is torture.

Personally I am fine with 4-5 hour narrow-body, which is how much it will take from Central Europe to the Canary Islands or Israel, so the longest routes for Euro low-cost or narrow-body holiday carriers.

7-8 hours is a different story. Maybe psychology plays a role there; crossing the Atlantic in such a small tube. Or, in this case, crossing the whole continent of South America.

Yes you are probably right. But I repeat my assertion that we have probably become spoilt with the advent of wide-bodies; it wasn't that long ago that narrow-bodies (707, DC8, VC10 etc) were the only way to go TATL or TPAC or Trans -Continental. And what about pre jets? 15 hours plus in a noisy piston engined aircraft,( narrow bodied of course) TATL. Just about bearable in First I suppose but Y...? Never been on one, and don't get me wrong, magnificent aircraft, but I would probably arrive in New York a quivering wreck.


Last winter I was traveling around the world on a budget, I flew Wow from ORD to DUB, with a 6ish hour flight ORD>KEF, I also flew Ural Airlines PRG>SVX>PEK, all four flights on A320’s and 321’s, other than Wow’s lack of legroom (what do I expect for $150?), I really didn’t notice any difference between a widebody jet and a narrow body.
 
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BawliBooch
Posts: 1348
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:24 am

Re: 2nd longest non stop MAX flight begins today

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:22 am

LAX772LR wrote:
....not the least of which being that 7hr50min is the same whether you're in a 737 or an SST.


I dont mind a narrowbody for longer segments as long as I get an aisle seat towards the rear of the plane! :)

But these new gen "slimline" seats are.....Ugh! I just cant seem to find that sweet spot. The older seats with thicker padding and backrests were much better.

PS: What was the longest non-stop flight operated by a 707/DC8?
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