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enilria
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Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:56 pm

I think something is going on here. The way this is all worded is very suspect.

1) They didn't care about F9 or NK or whoever, but they care so much about an airline that hasn't started up that they might allow scheduled flights?
This smells to me that Neeleman approached them and they are trial ballooning the concept of air service to see what reaction they get.
2) “We are not actively recruiting anybody,” Mayor Betsy Price said recently: “American Airlines is here and it’s a big piece of our economy.”
This is VERY interestingly worded. They aren't recruiting anyone because they don't want to peeve AA, but they didn't say they weren't approached or weren't already talking to Neeleman.
3) “That doesn’t mean we wouldn’t take a look at it,” she said.
The tense of that allows that they already took a look at it which is what is also implied by the remark that leaders are no longer saying "no" to scheduled service.

Where there's smoke there's fire. I think Neeleman reached out to them already. Doesn't mean it will happen, but it may show that Neeleman is already to some route network leg work.

But city leaders who used to say “no” or “never” to passenger service at Meacham now say “maybe.”
The reason: David Neeleman, the founder of JetBlue and other startups, is making moves that hint at a new low-cost airline to serve secondary city airports like Fort Worth Meacham, Baltimore or Burbank, California.

“We are not actively recruiting anybody,” Mayor Betsy Price said recently: “American Airlines is here and it’s a big piece of our economy.”

But. “That doesn’t mean we wouldn’t take a look at it,” she said.


https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/o ... 25370.html
 
FlyingSicilian
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:24 pm

I posted a thread on FTW a few weeks ago where they noted they were preparing for commercial service in 18 months. They are actively courting service unless AA is completely freaking out.

viewtopic.php?t=1397785
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enilria
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:17 am

FlyingSicilian wrote:
I posted a thread on FTW a few weeks ago where they noted they were preparing for commercial service in 18 months. They are actively courting service unless AA is completely freaking out.

viewtopic.php?t=1397785

I wonder if Neeleman takes this seriously as a focus point? I'm not sure Dallas/Ft Worth needs a third airport. DAL isn't doing that well for anybody. Even WN has struggled in many of their new routes and VX/AS have been going backwards. NK seems to be rolling back at DFW as well. Risky move, but it's not crazy...
 
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:20 am

Maybe DPA and BUR/VNY as other options
mercure f-wtcc
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:27 am

mercure1 wrote:
Maybe DPA and BUR/VNY as other options


What aircraft are they thinking? IINM DPA doesn’t have ARFF.
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KD5MDK
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:17 am

enilria wrote:
FlyingSicilian wrote:
I posted a thread on FTW a few weeks ago where they noted they were preparing for commercial service in 18 months. They are actively courting service unless AA is completely freaking out.

viewtopic.php?t=1397785

I wonder if Neeleman takes this seriously as a focus point? I'm not sure Dallas/Ft Worth needs a third airport. DAL isn't doing that well for anybody. Even WN has struggled in many of their new routes and VX/AS have been going backwards. NK seems to be rolling back at DFW as well. Risky move, but it's not crazy...

I think DAL would be very difficult to get into as a new entrant and DFW would leave you with basically no differentiating factor (and is also constrained).
If being closer to Fort Worth gives you a competitive advantage with customers who would otherwise go to DFW or DAL, it sounds reasonable to me.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:26 am

Put a terminal in at AFW. North Fort Worth and the Keller Roanoke area are expanding and Alliance with it's extra long Runways would be ideal for Moxy and G4.
 
mwmav8r01
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:29 am

WN should fly here. Take care of both sides of town. Dal is near capacity.
 
alggag
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:16 am

mwmav8r01 wrote:
WN should fly here. Take care of both sides of town. Dal is near capacity.


Currently not a viable option due to the Wright Amendment repeal compromise but I could see WN looking into starting service at another Dallas/Ft. Worth area airport when the 80 mile clause expires in 2025.
 
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enilria
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:03 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Maybe DPA and BUR/VNY as other options


What aircraft are they thinking? IINM DPA doesn’t have ARFF.

A220
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:08 pm

He really dropped the ball on Texas with Jetblue. He is looking for new opportunities.

Fragmenting the fast-growing metroplex away from the huge AA hub is just a smart business decision!
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:27 pm

I don't see why he wants to go into Dallas, the market is so full of capacity be it with AA and its superhub, WN's hub, and DL now making it into a pseudo-focus city it would make more sense if he wants to do a premium LCC would go to AUS which has no hub and has ample growth with a growing tech community who would love to spend money on an airline with the more startup vibe from airlines like JB and with the connecting hassle involved with the surrounding hubs at IAH, HOU,DFW, and DAL.
 
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:29 pm

Maybe I am colored by the fact that I live on the Dallas side of the Metroplex, but Dallas is (and has been) much much larger than Fort Worth, and I would think that the demographics would tend to be against a successful operation out of Meacham field. Yes, Keller and the Northern areas around Fort Worth have been growing, but again, for years, the more affluent sections have been on the Southwest side, which is equally or more convenient to DFW. Especially, when, next year, the rail station is completed at Terminal B of DFW, which will make it very convenient for people from downtown Fort Worth (or the Southwest suburbs) to get to DFW. The last time anybody tried to operate out of FTW, it was Fort Worth Air, flying a bunch of Nihon YS11's, which was a very obsolete and limiting fleet type. They didn't last long, and I don't think Neeleman would want to go into a questionable location. BUR possibly, because there is demand, but I don't think FTW offers either Demographics or a decent Market Area.
 
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:34 pm

Insertnamehere wrote:
I don't see why he wants to go into Dallas, the market is so full of capacity be it with AA and its superhub, WN's hub, and DL now making it into a pseudo-focus city


DL doesn't have a hub or focus city at DFW, and the only destinations that DL currently serves nonstop from DFW are LAX, SLC, MSP, DTW, CVG, LGA, JFK, and ATL, all of which are hubs or focus cities for DL. DL also doesn't currently serve its SEA hub or BOS or RDU focus cities nonstop from DFW, even though DL used to serve these 3 destinations nonstop from DFW back when it had a hub at DFW.
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:38 pm

jplatts wrote:
Insertnamehere wrote:
I don't see why he wants to go into Dallas, the market is so full of capacity be it with AA and its superhub, WN's hub, and DL now making it into a pseudo-focus city


DL doesn't have a hub or focus city at DFW, and the only destinations that DL currently serves nonstop from DFW are LAX, SLC, MSP, DTW, CVG, LGA, JFK, and ATL, all of which are hubs or focus cities for DL. DL also doesn't currently serve its SEA hub or BOS or RDU focus cities nonstop from DFW, even though DL used to serve these 3 destinations nonstop from DFW back when it had a hub at DFW.


I stand corrected I do apologize I thought I read somewhere that Delta was going to turn DFW into a focus city once A220's came on the property I do apologize but my statement still stands on capacity in the metroplex.
 
qcpilotxf
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:09 pm

enilria wrote:
FlyingSicilian wrote:
I posted a thread on FTW a few weeks ago where they noted they were preparing for commercial service in 18 months. They are actively courting service unless AA is completely freaking out.

viewtopic.php?t=1397785

I wonder if Neeleman takes this seriously as a focus point? I'm not sure Dallas/Ft Worth needs a third airport. DAL isn't doing that well for anybody. Even WN has struggled in many of their new routes and VX/AS have been going backwards. NK seems to be rolling back at DFW as well. Risky move, but it's not crazy...


And while DAL isn't going well for who all is currently flying there...we still don't really have even a clue on what Moxy is going to look like. It easily might be something that could work. Like you said Risky, but not all that crazy.

I could easily be something that works out and depending on what the airline looks like the FTW side of DFW may enjoy the benefits Dallas has with DAL
 
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:15 pm

superjeff wrote:
Maybe I am colored by the fact that I live on the Dallas side of the Metroplex, but Dallas is (and has been) much much larger than Fort Worth, and I would think that the demographics would tend to be against a successful operation out of Meacham field. Yes, Keller and the Northern areas around Fort Worth have been growing, but again, for years, the more affluent sections have been on the Southwest side, which is equally or more convenient to DFW. Especially, when, next year, the rail station is completed at Terminal B of DFW, which will make it very convenient for people from downtown Fort Worth (or the Southwest suburbs) to get to DFW. The last time anybody tried to operate out of FTW, it was Fort Worth Air, flying a bunch of Nihon YS11's, which was a very obsolete and limiting fleet type. They didn't last long, and I don't think Neeleman would want to go into a questionable location. BUR possibly, because there is demand, but I don't think FTW offers either Demographics or a decent Market Area.


Mesa flew out of FTW in the late 90s to HOU and a couple other spots. Also CO had noted they were going to fly there from IAH right before 11 Sept 01 then it got the axe along with many others.
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:53 pm

alggag wrote:
mwmav8r01 wrote:
WN should fly here. Take care of both sides of town. Dal is near capacity.


Currently not a viable option due to the Wright Amendment repeal compromise but I could see WN looking into starting service at another Dallas/Ft. Worth area airport when the 80 mile clause expires in 2025.


WN will expand somewhere in 2024 (the date the WARA restrictions expire). There are too many destinations it flies with limited frequencies and cities it would like to serve that it cannot due to the 20 gate DAL restriction.. It would like to expand at DAL, but if it cannot, it will expand somewhere: Ft Worth, DFW or McKinney.

Neeleman starting Ft Worth service might take Ft Worth off the table for WN.
 
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:01 pm

There are over 1.5 million people within 20 miles of FTW and over 2 million within 25 -

- So there is certainly a pool of travellers to draw from. Having an airline with the name/perks of a bigger player would be key to success in my opinion, or a larger niche player; but again a full service could easily work. I hope this comes to fruition.
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:02 pm

bob75013 wrote:
alggag wrote:
mwmav8r01 wrote:
WN should fly here. Take care of both sides of town. Dal is near capacity.


Currently not a viable option due to the Wright Amendment repeal compromise but I could see WN looking into starting service at another Dallas/Ft. Worth area airport when the 80 mile clause expires in 2025.


WN will expand somewhere in 2024 (the date the WARA restrictions expire). There are too many destinations it flies with limited frequencies and cities it would like to serve that it cannot due to the 20 gate DAL restriction.. It would like to expand at DAL, but if it cannot, it will expand somewhere: Ft Worth, DFW or McKinney.

Neeleman starting Ft Worth service might take Ft Worth off the table for WN.

I would argue Moxie starting Ft. Worth could make it more attractive a la JetBlue at LGB. A passenger base happy for a connecting airline to enter the market.

I do not See Ft. Worth being huge, but that rediculous 20 gate limit at DAL might allow it to grow larger than DAL? I don't know if there is enough space for a terminal and parking though...

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mga707
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:51 pm

superjeff wrote:
Maybe I am colored by the fact that I live on the Dallas side of the Metroplex, but Dallas is (and has been) much much larger than Fort Worth, and I would think that the demographics would tend to be against a successful operation out of Meacham field. Yes, Keller and the Northern areas around Fort Worth have been growing, but again, for years, the more affluent sections have been on the Southwest side, which is equally or more convenient to DFW. Especially, when, next year, the rail station is completed at Terminal B of DFW, which will make it very convenient for people from downtown Fort Worth (or the Southwest suburbs) to get to DFW. The last time anybody tried to operate out of FTW, it was Fort Worth Air, flying a bunch of Nihon YS11's, which was a very obsolete and limiting fleet type. They didn't last long, and I don't think Neeleman would want to go into a questionable location. BUR possibly, because there is demand, but I don't think FTW offers either Demographics or a decent Market Area.


Incorrect in that the last scheduled service from Meacham was Mesa in 1997-98 with CRJ-200s. Lone Star also flew into FTW briefly in 1987-88 with Do-328s. Fort Worth Air's operations were in 1984-85.
 
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:34 am

mga707 wrote:
superjeff wrote:
Maybe I am colored by the fact that I live on the Dallas side of the Metroplex, but Dallas is (and has been) much much larger than Fort Worth, and I would think that the demographics would tend to be against a successful operation out of Meacham field. Yes, Keller and the Northern areas around Fort Worth have been growing, but again, for years, the more affluent sections have been on the Southwest side, which is equally or more convenient to DFW. Especially, when, next year, the rail station is completed at Terminal B of DFW, which will make it very convenient for people from downtown Fort Worth (or the Southwest suburbs) to get to DFW. The last time anybody tried to operate out of FTW, it was Fort Worth Air, flying a bunch of Nihon YS11's, which was a very obsolete and limiting fleet type. They didn't last long, and I don't think Neeleman would want to go into a questionable location. BUR possibly, because there is demand, but I don't think FTW offers either Demographics or a decent Market Area.


Mein that the last scheduled service from Meacham was Mesa in 1997-98 with CRJ-200s. Lone Star also flew into FTW briefly in 1987-88 with Do-328s. Fort Worth Air's operations were in 1984-85.



i stand corrected, but the result is the same. Neither Mesa nor lone Star lasted.
 
6YBLUE
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:05 am

All this blah blah about why its not doable/possible or a bad idea. Neeleman has created (or been a part of) 3-4 successful airlines. Here is the simple formula. Find an under served, low cost airport, fly brand new low mx aircraft with low cost workforce and provide low fares (good service), the customers will come. By the time cost catches up (5-10 yrs) the business would have flourished. If I had Neeleman's investment building skills, id have my own airline too.
 
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:20 am

lightsaber wrote:
could make it more attractive a la JetBlue at LGB.

You mean the LGB operation that B6 just gutted because it was hemorrhaging money?

I think this probably just one of many different proposals that Moxy is looking at. They are probably doing a mini version of Amazon's HQ2 RFP to see if any cities will give them a sweetheart deal.
 
blueflyer
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:25 am

I'm all for passenger service at FTW, but where will the passenger terminal be? If service is to begin in 2020, even that temporary facility they have mentioned last month needs to be going up soon, meaning the city needs to start the vendor selection process now...

superjeff wrote:
Maybe I am colored by the fact that I live on the Dallas side of the Metroplex, but Dallas is (and has been) much much larger than Fort Worth, and I would think that the demographics would tend to be against a successful operation out of Meacham field. Yes, Keller and the Northern areas around Fort Worth have been growing, but again, for years, the more affluent sections have been on the Southwest side, which is equally or more convenient to DFW.

Southwest side of Fort Worth? There is no question FTW is more convenient than DFW. As to AFW, in terms of distance, it's about the same. Once the I-35 toll lanes will be completed in far North Side, travel time to AFW should be significantly less than DFW.
 
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enilria
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:29 pm

qcpilotxf wrote:
enilria wrote:
FlyingSicilian wrote:
I posted a thread on FTW a few weeks ago where they noted they were preparing for commercial service in 18 months. They are actively courting service unless AA is completely freaking out.

viewtopic.php?t=1397785

I wonder if Neeleman takes this seriously as a focus point? I'm not sure Dallas/Ft Worth needs a third airport. DAL isn't doing that well for anybody. Even WN has struggled in many of their new routes and VX/AS have been going backwards. NK seems to be rolling back at DFW as well. Risky move, but it's not crazy...


And while DAL isn't going well for who all is currently flying there...we still don't really have even a clue on what Moxy is going to look like. It easily might be something that could work. Like you said Risky, but not all that crazy.

I could easily be something that works out and depending on what the airline looks like the FTW side of DFW may enjoy the benefits Dallas has with DAL

It's much further from DFW than DAL and has better interstate access than DAL. I'm not sure if the distance is good or bad. Could be either.
 
evank516
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:39 pm

I hope Moxy does land at FTW. I'm so sick of this WN/DL drama at DAL and the stupidity of the Wright/Shelby Amendments altogether and how many stupid and worthless agreements and compromises they had to come up with to SEMI-repeal it. Just to spite AA and WN I want to see this happen. And I hope they're successful as ever doing it.
 
tphuang
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:54 pm

aside from FTW, what other opportunity exist for Moxy? It seems like the only cities left are the ones that are not attractive. So maybe FTW is the best option available. Their cost is going to low enough in the build up phase. They don't need to be generating high fares.
 
bob75013
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:17 pm

tphuang wrote:
aside from FTW, what other opportunity exist for Moxy? It seems like the only cities left are the ones that are not attractive. So maybe FTW is the best option available. Their cost is going to low enough in the build up phase. They don't need to be generating high fares.


McKinney National on the east side of the DFW Metroplex would be as attractive as Ft. Worth. Probably 3 million people within 25 miles. At least 1 million within 15. Highly affluent area. Plenty of room, for a terminal and parking.
 
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enilria
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Re: Is Neeleman Talking to Meacham Field (Ft.Worth, TX) About Moxy?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:38 pm

tphuang wrote:
aside from FTW, what other opportunity exist for Moxy? It seems like the only cities left are the ones that are not attractive. So maybe FTW is the best option available. Their cost is going to low enough in the build up phase. They don't need to be generating high fares.

If they are truly doing alternates as focus points then I'd think these are on the list: SWF, ONT, LGB, PIE. I think LAL and BJC are worth considering.
https://businessviewmagazine.com/rocky- ... n-airport/

If they really want to connect to Azul and TAP as Neeleman said, it's likely just another MCO/LAS clone.

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