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NYPECO
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Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:46 pm

According to The Independent, Primera Air is switching it's London-Newark service to a 737-800 (Non-MAX), instead of the A321NEO due to delivery delays. This results in the aircraft requiring a fuel stop in Keflavik, which could add up to two hours in trip time.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... 09536.html

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c933103
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:49 pm

Delivery delay? Engine issue?
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Varsity1
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:58 pm

Wow, London to EWR on a 737NG.

Novelty
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:05 pm

Probably break advertising standards in the UK, offering non-stop service knowing you are going to refuel before you start.
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george77300
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:16 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Probably break advertising standards in the UK, offering non-stop service knowing you are going to refuel before you start.


Agreed. Although at least they are including it in the flight time. Nearly 10 hours westbound.
 
Eitilt
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:35 pm

Impossible to make any money on these flights with extra flight times to Iceland , landing fees and expensive fuel on an airline whose only selling point is that they are cheap.
It’s a trip I would only do once as they may not be in existence for my return flight.
 
Thibault973
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:49 pm

I'm booked on one of their 1st flights on the CDG-YUL route and I'm really starting to wonder if I should kiss my cheap montreal week end good bye :(
 
IWMBH
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:02 pm

Such a long trip on a 737 sound like a nightmare.
 
TC957
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:11 pm

Surely the 738 can do eastbound EWR - STN flights without stopping ? Westbound is a different matter I know.
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:00 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Probably break advertising standards in the UK, offering non-stop service knowing you are going to refuel before you start.

On their site, Primera advertises "direct" flights. This wording has been carefully chosen. "Nonstop" means what it says: no stops. "Direct" merely means that you fly the trip on one plane, and under one flight number. It doesn't preclude a stop along the way.
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:49 pm

OMG an airline did something bad that means they will definitely go bust! :eek:

Get a grip.
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:54 pm

Well the 738 may well be non-ETOPS as well requiring a significantly longer routing. Probably at least to 62N050W, which would be the point where they could turn southwestbound, due to the requirement to stay within 60 minutes of airports. No way a 738 could do that non-stop.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:13 am

Norwegian substituted some 737-800s on Transatlantic routes last year before they had enough 737MAX. Sometimes there were fuel stops, but mostly they were blocking seats.

I wonder if the 737-800s that Primera Air is using are ETOPS.

Does anyone know how badly delayed the A321neos are? Is this due to the Pratt engine issue?
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:19 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
Norwegian substituted some 737-800s on Transatlantic routes last year before they had enough 737MAX. Sometimes there were fuel stops, but mostly they were blocking seats.

I wonder if the 737-800s that Primera Air is using are ETOPS.

Does anyone know how badly delayed the A321neos are? Is this due to the Pratt engine issue?


They are due one more 321neo (OY-PAB) due next week.
The “multiple” flights which have operated “for weeks” the independent refers to is the EWR flight last week and BOS today, both one offs.
Since the remaining neos have been delivered they have ran a pretty smooth schedule, loads almost 100% on all routes short and long haul and pretty happy pax, despite what you see on Twitter as let’s face it people don’t write online unless they’ve had a poor experience.
 
CX747
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:19 am

IWMBH wrote:
Such a long trip on a 737 sound like a nightmare.


Yes, such a nightmare on a narrowbody plane...just....like...the...A321 it is replacing.
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Newbiepilot
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:21 am

IWMBH wrote:
Such a long trip on a 737 sound like a nightmare.


Primera is getting 737-9s next year and the 737MAX will dominate their fleet, so you may want to avoid Primera.
 
mel
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:54 am

One of the 737-800s made it to Newark nonstop last week, and looking at the map it was pretty clear that it was non-ETOPS.
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zackary747
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:16 am

mattyfitzg wrote:
OMG an airline did something bad that means they will definitely go bust! :eek:

Get a grip.


I agree. People on this forum are so quick to make assumptions. Not to mention the Iceland stop is temporary until they can get the correct equipment. If they were going to lose enough money by stopping in Iceland, I am sure they would of suspended the flights temporarily.
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Varsity1
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:53 am

mel wrote:
One of the 737-800s made it to Newark nonstop last week, and looking at the map it was pretty clear that it was non-ETOPS.


I don't know why I find this so funny, but I picture people sitting at home on flight aware cheering for it "YEah! We got one!" :lol:
 
QueenoftheSkies
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:54 am

Kudos to them for doing the best they can to fulfill their customer’s travel needs given circumstances out of their control.
 
7673mech
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:35 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Wow, London to EWR on a 737NG.

Novelty


How different then the scheduled narrow body?
Other then the stop.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:57 am

Oh wow. Big scary piece of terrible news! I feel for the poor pax. A321 substituted on ad-hoc basis for like a week by a brand-new 737, and has to stop 45mins @ KEF to refuel on one leg of the journey. Teary Drama!
Guess they will go bust because of this. Along with Norwegian of course, those nasty daredevils who make poor people fly long-haul on those terrible narrow-bodies!
 
jghealey
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:09 am

mattyfitzg wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
Norwegian substituted some 737-800s on Transatlantic routes last year before they had enough 737MAX. Sometimes there were fuel stops, but mostly they were blocking seats.

I wonder if the 737-800s that Primera Air is using are ETOPS.

Does anyone know how badly delayed the A321neos are? Is this due to the Pratt engine issue?


They are due one more 321neo (OY-PAB) due next week.
The “multiple” flights which have operated “for weeks” the independent refers to is the EWR flight last week and BOS today, both one offs.
Since the remaining neos have been delivered they have ran a pretty smooth schedule, loads almost 100% on all routes short and long haul and pretty happy pax, despite what you see on Twitter as let’s face it people don’t write online unless they’ve had a poor experience.

2 further A321LRs due later this year too, not sure where they'll be based though.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:24 am

readytotaxi wrote:
Probably break advertising standards in the UK, offering non-stop service knowing you are going to refuel before you start.


Indeed. It reminds me of an old case when TW was flying 747s between JFK and TLV that had to make a fuel stop in Ireland even though the flight was sold as non-stop.
 
debonair
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:51 am

NYPECO wrote:
According to The Independent, Primera Air is switching it's London-Newark service to a 737-800 (Non-MAX), instead of the A321NEO due to delivery delays.


AFAIK, the B738 is all Economy Y189 seats, what will happen to those booked in "Premium" (2x2 seating)?!
 
mattyfitzg
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:25 am

debonair wrote:
NYPECO wrote:
According to The Independent, Primera Air is switching it's London-Newark service to a 737-800 (Non-MAX), instead of the A321NEO due to delivery delays.


AFAIK, the B738 is all Economy Y189 seats, what will happen to those booked in "Premium" (2x2 seating)?!


They’ve been issued a refund for the price difference, but still received Premium service meals etc, with middle seat blocked, much like European short haul business class.
 
AirbusOnly
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:20 am

Currently flight PF42 EWR-STN is making an unplanned fuel stop at KEF. Aircraft is OY-PSA, an 11year old Boeing 737-8Q8. Already the outgoing flight STN-EWR was diverted to KEF for refuelling.

https://www.flightradar24.com/PRI42/1dac4f6a
 
AirbusOnly
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:29 am

AirbusOnly wrote:
Currently flight PF42 EWR-STN is making an unplanned fuel stop at KEF. Aircraft is OY-PSA, an 11year old Boeing 737-8Q8. Already the outgoing flight STN-EWR was diverted to KEF for refuelling.

https://www.flightradar24.com/PRI42/1dac4f6a


and left KEF after exactly 54 min to her flight to STN

https://www.flightradar24.com/PRI42/1dacf058
 
VSMUT
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:13 am

oldannyboy wrote:
Oh wow. Big scary piece of terrible news! I feel for the poor pax. A321 substituted on ad-hoc basis for like a week by a brand-new 737, and has to stop 45mins @ KEF to refuel on one leg of the journey. Teary Drama!


Primera doesn't have any brand-new 737s though. With the exception of a few that are 10-12 years, they are all pretty old.

Although not as bad as a replacement flight I did this summer. A 737-800 scheduled flight of 1:30, replaced with an ATR 72 that had to do a fuel stop enroute, resulting in a total time of 5 hours, not including the preceding 6 hour delay from an ATC strike!
 
londonistan
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:15 pm

IWMBH wrote:
Such a long trip on a 737 sound like a nightmare.

You've obviously never flown from London to one of the Red Sea resorts.nearly 6 hours on....an EasyJet A320! Shock horror!!!! Absolute purgatory! You can actually die...!. As I mentioned before, in the 1950s people used to fly 15+ hours TATL on a noisy, bumpy piston engined tube. You get used to it. Get a grip....
 
KLDC10
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:57 pm

londonistan wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
Such a long trip on a 737 sound like a nightmare.

You've obviously never flown from London to one of the Red Sea resorts.nearly 6 hours on....an EasyJet A320! Shock horror!!!! Absolute purgatory! You can actually die...!. As I mentioned before, in the 1950s people used to fly 15+ hours TATL on a noisy, bumpy piston engined tube. You get used to it. Get a grip....


And in the 1950s, people used to contract measles. The point is that the world has moved on since then, and travel has developed, making this comparison irrelevant. I'm a bit of a traditionalist myself, but you have to compare apples to apples and the fact is that people have come to expect elevated comfort and services on longer flights.
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[email protected]
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:08 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
londonistan wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
Such a long trip on a 737 sound like a nightmare.

the fact is that people have come to expect elevated comfort and services on longer flights.


Then people can pay extra for it and get whatever it is they want.

The fact is, Primera, Norwegian, et al, are providing more choice.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:26 pm

VSMUT wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Oh wow. Big scary piece of terrible news! I feel for the poor pax. A321 substituted on ad-hoc basis for like a week by a brand-new 737, and has to stop 45mins @ KEF to refuel on one leg of the journey. Teary Drama!


Primera doesn't have any brand-new 737s though. With the exception of a few that are 10-12 years, they are all pretty old.

Although not as bad as a replacement flight I did this summer. A 737-800 scheduled flight of 1:30, replaced with an ATR 72 that had to do a fuel stop enroute, resulting in a total time of 5 hours, not including the preceding 6 hour delay from an ATC strike!


Exactly. You prove my point.
Your case was indeed quite a tad worse. Compare a 1.30hrs sector on a jet with 5 hours on a prop, but stopping off for fuel in KEF is hardly purgatory. And a 738 is only marginally less comfortable than an A321. Y is Y is Y.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:39 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Oh wow. Big scary piece of terrible news! I feel for the poor pax. A321 substituted on ad-hoc basis for like a week by a brand-new 737, and has to stop 45mins @ KEF to refuel on one leg of the journey. Teary Drama!


Primera doesn't have any brand-new 737s though. With the exception of a few that are 10-12 years, they are all pretty old.

Although not as bad as a replacement flight I did this summer. A 737-800 scheduled flight of 1:30, replaced with an ATR 72 that had to do a fuel stop enroute, resulting in a total time of 5 hours, not including the preceding 6 hour delay from an ATC strike!


Exactly. You prove my point.
Your case was indeed quite a tad worse. Compare a 1.30hrs sector on a jet with 5 hours on a prop, but stopping off for fuel in KEF is hardly purgatory. And a 738 is only marginally less comfortable than an A321. Y is Y is Y.


It is a bit of a non-story. Replacements happen all the time, and even 757s and A321LRs have to do fuel stops from time to time.

It could be an issue if it was sold as an A321N flight, with the company knowing in advance that it would be the 737NG. Looking at their website however, that doesn't even seem to be the case, the departure today is listed as a 737-800.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:41 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
londonistan wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
Such a long trip on a 737 sound like a nightmare.

You've obviously never flown from London to one of the Red Sea resorts.nearly 6 hours on....an EasyJet A320! Shock horror!!!! Absolute purgatory! You can actually die...!. As I mentioned before, in the 1950s people used to fly 15+ hours TATL on a noisy, bumpy piston engined tube. You get used to it. Get a grip....


And in the 1950s, people used to contract measles. The point is that the world has moved on since then, and travel has developed, making this comparison irrelevant. I'm a bit of a traditionalist myself, but you have to compare apples to apples and the fact is that people have come to expect elevated comfort and services on longer flights.


No, you pay a very cheap fare on an LCC ( and I am the first one to do so if I feel up to it ) and you do not expect anything beyond what they promise you. Ok, you expect a direct flight on an A321, and end up on a 738 that needs to stop for 45mins to refuel in KEF. Big deal.
I mean, let's move on.

Maybe you mean that *people IN THE PAST expected elevated comfort and services on longer flights*, but now? I mean, unless you pay for J where do you get that??? "elevated comfort"?? Not even remotely. Not even on SQ or QR. :-)
Get a grip, as some say. :-) :wave:
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:52 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
londonistan wrote:
You've obviously never flown from London to one of the Red Sea resorts.nearly 6 hours on....an EasyJet A320! Shock horror!!!! Absolute purgatory! You can actually die...!. As I mentioned before, in the 1950s people used to fly 15+ hours TATL on a noisy, bumpy piston engined tube. You get used to it. Get a grip....


And in the 1950s, people used to contract measles. The point is that the world has moved on since then, and travel has developed, making this comparison irrelevant. I'm a bit of a traditionalist myself, but you have to compare apples to apples and the fact is that people have come to expect elevated comfort and services on longer flights.


No, you pay a very cheap fare on an LCC ( and I am the first one to do so if I feel up to it ) and you do not expect anything beyond what they promise you. Ok, you expect a direct flight on an A321, and end up on a 738 that needs to stop for 45mins to refuel in KEF. Big deal.
I mean, let's move on.

Maybe you mean that *people IN THE PAST expected elevated comfort and services on longer flights*, but now? I mean, unless you pay for J where do you get that??? "elevated comfort"?? Not even remotely. Not even on SQ or QR. :-)
Get a grip, as some say. :-) :wave:


You don't have to go as far back as the 1950's. 707's & DC8's were flying those flights more recently than the 50's. Narrowbody, noisy...not fun. I will say, depending on the seats used, it can be uncomfortable, and the lack of a second aisle does make it tougher to get up and stretch but this is the direction we are headed. The smallest possible aircraft for the mission. Only the premium fares matter. Heck, they're not quite as long but have similar prestige...US transcons used to be all widebody until narrowbody's could handle the job performance wise. Now the most premium routes are all narrowbody and you generally only see widebody's for fleet movement reasons (although DL may still have some WBs on the JFK routes).
 
KLDC10
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:07 pm

[email protected] wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
londonistan wrote:
the fact is that people have come to expect elevated comfort and services on longer flights.


Then people can pay extra for it and get whatever it is they want.

The fact is, Primera, Norwegian, et al, are providing more choice.


Of course. My comment was directed at the suggestion that poor standards of comfort should be tolerated nowadays because people used to fly in piston-engined aircraft nearly seventy years ago.

oldannyboy wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:
londonistan wrote:
You've obviously never flown from London to one of the Red Sea resorts.nearly 6 hours on....an EasyJet A320! Shock horror!!!! Absolute purgatory! You can actually die...!. As I mentioned before, in the 1950s people used to fly 15+ hours TATL on a noisy, bumpy piston engined tube. You get used to it. Get a grip....


And in the 1950s, people used to contract measles. The point is that the world has moved on since then, and travel has developed, making this comparison irrelevant. I'm a bit of a traditionalist myself, but you have to compare apples to apples and the fact is that people have come to expect elevated comfort and services on longer flights.


No, you pay a very cheap fare on an LCC ( and I am the first one to do so if I feel up to it ) and you do not expect anything beyond what they promise you. Ok, you expect a direct flight on an A321, and end up on a 738 that needs to stop for 45mins to refuel in KEF. Big deal.
I mean, let's move on.

Maybe you mean that *people IN THE PAST expected elevated comfort and services on longer flights*, but now? I mean, unless you pay for J where do you get that??? "elevated comfort"?? Not even remotely. Not even on SQ or QR. :-)
Get a grip, as some say. :-) :wave:


Fuel stops when flying transatlantic were also a hallmark of travelling in the 1950s and 60s. Of course, the current problems are out of Primera's control, given that these routes were not planned to be operated by 737s in the first place. But modern expectations are set according to what is considered "the norm" nowadays.

Not really. If I'm flying Lufthansa transatlantic in economy, I do still expect an elevated level of comfort to that provided on a short haul flight with the same airline. A pillow and blanket for example, a full meal (or maybe two, depending on the length of the flight), hot towels, IFE, an expanded range of Liquors etc.
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VSMUT
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:27 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
I will say, depending on the seats used, it can be uncomfortable, and the lack of a second aisle does make it tougher to get up and stretch but this is the direction we are headed. The smallest possible aircraft for the mission.


The direction will only hold as long as other factors such as slot restrictions and crew shortages don't limit it. Case in point being the RJ market in the US, or the congestion in LHR.

For all the talk about reduction in size, we must remember that the 787 and A350 also sold record numbers, and both the A330 and 777 were very hot until just recently. That doesn't really indicate a direction towards smaller planes, but more a massively growing market in all segments.
 
AirbusOnly
Posts: 432
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:25 pm

PF 41 STN-EWR - again OY-PSA - is stopping for fuel at KEF currently - though they offer a non-stop flight, each one stops for refueling at KEF...you get what you pay for...an „extra“ stop in Iceland...cool! ;-)
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Primera Air Transatlantic Service Stopping in Iceland for Refueling

Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:16 am

KLDC10 wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
KLDC10 wrote:


Then people can pay extra for it and get whatever it is they want.

The fact is, Primera, Norwegian, et al, are providing more choice.




Not really. If I'm flying Lufthansa transatlantic in economy, I do still expect an elevated level of comfort to that provided on a short haul flight with the same airline. A pillow and blanket for example, a full meal (or maybe two, depending on the length of the flight), hot towels, IFE, an expanded range of Liquors etc.


Sorry to nitpick, but I frankly think you've picked the wrong example...
LH shorthaul is pretty miserable...with thin, rock-hard seats, and a very meagre service.. it's marginally better on long-haul, and yes you get a pillow and a blanket, but meals are oftentimes disastrous and seat pitch minimal...
Going back to topic: if you book with Primera I would assume that people know that they are not flying LH or KL, or BA -it's obviously a CHEAPER alternative- so I don't see how you would expect hot towels and full meals??

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