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dfwjim1
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UAL 738 and 739, Hawaii to SFO ?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:11 pm

Checking FlightAware this morning and I noticed that UAL flies 739s from KOA and HNL to SFO and the 738 from OGG. Just curious as to why UAL does not fly the 739 from OGG (at least today)? Does it have to do with the shorter runway at OGG? Or are there other reasons? Did a search but didn't find anything related to my questions.

Thanks for your responses.
 
MCIRNO
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Re: UAL 738 and 739, Hawaii to SFO ?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:33 pm

At times they do send the 739 into OGG but it seems that it's not ideal. As you pointed out, the runway in OGG is way shorter than HNL or KOA so that makes a difference; there's probably zero concern going east but going west, especially in the winter I'm sure there are some penalties for the 739.

However, if you check out LAX-HNL/OGG, which is a slightly longer flight, they are beginning to send the MAX9. It would be interesting to see that data comparing what the efficiency is between the 738 vs 739 vs 39M on the Mainland -> Hawaii and Hawaii -> Mainland. Like what AA is doing with some of their new 321s (LAX->Hawaii), maybe UA will use their MAX9s on the route...maybe WN will too.
 
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kgaiflyer
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Re: UAL 738 and 739, Hawaii to SFO ?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:35 pm

According to United.com, UA706 today from OGG to LAX is a 739-Max.

Two flights from OGG to SFO are 753s.

Perhaps someone better qualified than me (I'm just a frequent flyer) can respond to your query.
 
flyguy84
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Re: UAL 738 and 739, Hawaii to SFO ?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:50 pm

The preferred 737 for OGG is the 73Q which is the -800 STOL model. United prohibits the 73Y (738 regular model) 73C(900 non-er) and the 37K/73L which are the 739ers. The 73X which is the Max is approved.

And yes, the reasonings are performance issues.
SFO
 
77H
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Re: UAL 738 and 739, Hawaii to SFO ?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:19 am

MCIRNO wrote:
At times they do send the 739 into OGG but it seems that it's not ideal. As you pointed out, the runway in OGG is way shorter than HNL or KOA so that makes a difference; there's probably zero concern going east but going west, especially in the winter I'm sure there are some penalties for the 739.

However, if you check out LAX-HNL/OGG, which is a slightly longer flight, they are beginning to send the MAX9. It would be interesting to see that data comparing what the efficiency is between the 738 vs 739 vs 39M on the Mainland -> Hawaii and Hawaii -> Mainland. Like what AA is doing with some of their new 321s (LAX->Hawaii), maybe UA will use their MAX9s on the route...maybe WN will too.


I have never seen a 737-900ER at OGG. Flown on them multiple times to HNL and KOA. Would love to be proven wrong though. The 737 MAX9 just started operating LAX-OGG last week I believe. I actually started a thread about it several weeks ago as it seems the MAX9 will take over most 738/739 routes to the neighbor islands (except ITO and LIH) in the next 6-8 months. Interestingly, the day the MAX9 started service LAX-OGG dropped to 1x daily.

Additionally, flying westbound you only have to factor stopping distance. Eastbound is where you’d have to factor in takeoff distance. I doubt stopping distance is an issue considering LGA sees 739ERs. Both of LGAs runways are feet longer than OGGs. This lends to the notion that it is actually takeoff performance that is the limiting factor given the stage length of OGG-LAX/SFO plus ETOPS fuel requirements you wouldn’t find going out of LGA.

Oddly enough, several months ago, UA operated a 77W on a turn from/to SFO as an equipment sub. If memory serves, the flight was nearly full up top. No outbound cargo though, on account of there is very little outbound cargo these days. Funny the beastly 77W can get off the ground there but the 739 cannot under normal operating parameters.

77H
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: UAL 738 and 739, Hawaii to SFO ?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:05 pm

77H wrote:
MCIRNO wrote:
At times they do send the 739 into OGG but it seems that it's not ideal. As you pointed out, the runway in OGG is way shorter than HNL or KOA so that makes a difference; there's probably zero concern going east but going west, especially in the winter I'm sure there are some penalties for the 739.

However, if you check out LAX-HNL/OGG, which is a slightly longer flight, they are beginning to send the MAX9. It would be interesting to see that data comparing what the efficiency is between the 738 vs 739 vs 39M on the Mainland -> Hawaii and Hawaii -> Mainland. Like what AA is doing with some of their new 321s (LAX->Hawaii), maybe UA will use their MAX9s on the route...maybe WN will too.


I have never seen a 737-900ER at OGG. Flown on them multiple times to HNL and KOA. Would love to be proven wrong though. The 737 MAX9 just started operating LAX-OGG last week I believe. I actually started a thread about it several weeks ago as it seems the MAX9 will take over most 738/739 routes to the neighbor islands (except ITO and LIH) in the next 6-8 months. Interestingly, the day the MAX9 started service LAX-OGG dropped to 1x daily.

Additionally, flying westbound you only have to factor stopping distance. Eastbound is where you’d have to factor in takeoff distance. I doubt stopping distance is an issue considering LGA sees 739ERs. Both of LGAs runways are feet longer than OGGs. This lends to the notion that it is actually takeoff performance that is the limiting factor given the stage length of OGG-LAX/SFO plus ETOPS fuel requirements you wouldn’t find going out of LGA.

Oddly enough, several months ago, UA operated a 77W on a turn from/to SFO as an equipment sub. If memory serves, the flight was nearly full up top. No outbound cargo though, on account of there is very little outbound cargo these days. Funny the beastly 77W can get off the ground there but the 739 cannot under normal operating parameters.

77H



No, it's not really surprising that a 77W can get off, but the 739 cannot. The 739/ER would be up near/against MTOW on most days, while a 77W would be very light for a 5 hour flight. Relative to its MTOW, the 77W would be well, well below that since it wouldn't take much fuel for the 5 or so hours.
Whatever
 
Cubsrule
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Re: UAL 738 and 739, Hawaii to SFO ?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:16 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
The preferred 737 for OGG is the 73Q which is the -800 STOL model. United prohibits the 73Y (738 regular model) 73C(900 non-er) and the 37K/73L which are the 739ers. The 73X which is the Max is approved.

And yes, the reasonings are performance issues.


Yup. Note also that UA and AS are the only carriers flying 737s of any sort to OGG. AA and DL are all 321, 752, and widebody.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: UAL 738 and 739, Hawaii to SFO ?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:23 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
The preferred 737 for OGG is the 73Q which is the -800 STOL model. United prohibits the 73Y (738 regular model) 73C(900 non-er) and the 37K/73L which are the 739ers. The 73X which is the Max is approved.

And yes, the reasonings are performance issues.


Yup. Note also that UA and AS are the only carriers flying 737s of any sort to OGG. AA and DL are all 321, 752, and widebody.


Westjet flies 737s to OGG.
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: UAL 738 and 739, Hawaii to SFO ?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:52 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
The preferred 737 for OGG is the 73Q which is the -800 STOL model. United prohibits the 73Y (738 regular model) 73C(900 non-er) and the 37K/73L which are the 739ers. The 73X which is the Max is approved.

And yes, the reasonings are performance issues.


Yup. Note also that UA and AS are the only carriers flying 737s of any sort to OGG. AA and DL are all 321, 752, and widebody.


Westjet flies 737s to OGG.


Indeed, and AQ also flies cargo 737s. I should have added the "OGG-mainland" qualifier.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
mm320cap
Posts: 310
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:35 pm

Re: UAL 738 and 739, Hawaii to SFO ?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:40 pm

77H wrote:
MCIRNO wrote:
At times they do send the 739 into OGG but it seems that it's not ideal. As you pointed out, the runway in OGG is way shorter than HNL or KOA so that makes a difference; there's probably zero concern going east but going west, especially in the winter I'm sure there are some penalties for the 739.

However, if you check out LAX-HNL/OGG, which is a slightly longer flight, they are beginning to send the MAX9. It would be interesting to see that data comparing what the efficiency is between the 738 vs 739 vs 39M on the Mainland -> Hawaii and Hawaii -> Mainland. Like what AA is doing with some of their new 321s (LAX->Hawaii), maybe UA will use their MAX9s on the route...maybe WN will too.


I have never seen a 737-900ER at OGG. Flown on them multiple times to HNL and KOA. Would love to be proven wrong though. The 737 MAX9 just started operating LAX-OGG last week I believe. I actually started a thread about it several weeks ago as it seems the MAX9 will take over most 738/739 routes to the neighbor islands (except ITO and LIH) in the next 6-8 months. Interestingly, the day the MAX9 started service LAX-OGG dropped to 1x daily.

Additionally, flying westbound you only have to factor stopping distance. Eastbound is where you’d have to factor in takeoff distance. I doubt stopping distance is an issue considering LGA sees 739ERs. Both of LGAs runways are feet longer than OGGs. This lends to the notion that it is actually takeoff performance that is the limiting factor given the stage length of OGG-LAX/SFO plus ETOPS fuel requirements you wouldn’t find going out of LGA.

Oddly enough, several months ago, UA operated a 77W on a turn from/to SFO as an equipment sub. If memory serves, the flight was nearly full up top. No outbound cargo though, on account of there is very little outbound cargo these days. Funny the beastly 77W can get off the ground there but the 739 cannot under normal operating parameters.

77H


We flew them to OGG when we first started getting the latest batch of 737-900ER’s. If they were full, we had to go to KOA to get gas. Not ideal so that didn’t last very long.
 
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thebatman
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Re: UAL 738 and 739, Hawaii to SFO ?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:02 pm

UA also flies the 737-800SFP to LIH from SFO.
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