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lightsaber
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When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:42 pm

I find fleet transitions facinating.

American Airlines is taking advantage of low used prices to expand their A319 fleet. Currently 125, per Wikipedia 8 on order for a future fleet off 133.

Also per Wikipedia, Easyjet is down to 132 A319s and is taking advantage of expiring leases to rotate them out of the fleet slowly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EasyJet

When is it expected that AA will surpass U2 and the subdivisions?
Easyjet (UK) 132 A319
Easyjet Switzerland: 10 A319
Easyjet EU: 40 A319
Total:. 182

So the question is, when will AA have more A319s than Easyjet.

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ikolkyo
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:45 pm

Who knows if they ever will, fleet plans can change very quickly and that is a large gap between them. It’s not like EasyJet is sending them out the door very quickly. Heck, didn’t they just bring back 2 aircraft for a short period?
 
codc10
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:50 pm

Somewhat tangentially related, UA is acquiring a number (30+) ex-EasyJet 319s, which would get their fleet over the century mark, and reportedly UA is looking to take on as many as 60 frames, which would put UA in the running for largest 319 fleet as well.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:03 pm

The reason Easyjet is pulling back A319s is the delays in LEAP engine production and thus A320NEO delivery. As noted below, Easyjet has already told, but is per contract still flying, a large number of A319s.

It is rumored AA is looking for more A319s at discounted pricing. As soon as A320NEO production hits plan, Cebu Pacific and Easyjet will let leases expire and rotate the A319s out. With great credit, high utilization use it is fractionally cheaper to fly the A320NEO than the A319.

In low utilization duty (AA, UA, DL, and G4), the A319 is very economical as you have downtime for maintenance that all older planes need (instead of it being a high cost to pull an aircraft off the line).

U2 is far too high of utilization to not continue upgrading to NEOs.

codc10 wrote:
Somewhat tangentially related, UA is acquiring a number (30+) ex-EasyJet 319s, which would get their fleet over the century mark, and reportedly UA is looking to take on as many as 60 frames, which would put UA in the running for largest 319 fleet as well.

Those 30+ leaving Easyjet (already sold and under contract per my understanding) does quite a bit to bring down the total at U2 and might, as you noted, put UA in contention.

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Boof02671
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:38 pm

AA is getting some used ones from Frontier.
 
greg85
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:04 pm

I imagine easyjet will lose the top spot at some point in the winter 18/19 schedule. Although the A319 will still be around in big numbers at easyjet for a long time. The last A319 deliveries were in 2011. With current expansion plans, and ongoing NEO issues I’m sure they’ll be around for a while.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:28 pm

Nice to read that the A319 is still wanted by some airlines, I have always liked the A319 and think I'll be flying them with British Airways next month - in their new 143/144-seat C/Y layout.

I didn't know AA had such a huge A319 fleet, I thought perhaps 30-40 aircraft... do they have specific routes where they are best suited (short runways etc)? Or are they used everywhere when demand is less than 140 seats?
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Super80Fan
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:40 pm

Cebu Pacific already sold basically all of their A319's to Allegiant. The only other large non-US operator of the A319 is EasyJet.
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senatorflyer
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:55 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I find fleet transitions facinating.

American Airlines is taking advantage of low used prices to expand their A319 fleet. Currently 125, per Wikipedia 8 on order for a future fleet off 133.

Also per Wikipedia, Easyjet is down to 132 A319s and is taking advantage of expiring leases to rotate them out of the fleet slowly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EasyJet

When is it expected that AA will surpass U2 and the subdivisions?
Easyjet (UK) 132 A319
Easyjet Switzerland: 10 A319
Easyjet EU: 40 A319
Total:. 182

So the question is, when will AA have more A319s than Easyjet.

Lightsaber


Not sure why Wikipedia lists 182 A319 for EasyJet. They have only got 132 in total!
Last edited by senatorflyer on Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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American 767
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:57 pm

CRJ900 wrote:
I didn't know AA had such a huge A319 fleet, I thought perhaps 30-40 aircraft... do they have specific routes where they are best suited (short runways etc)? Or are they used everywhere when demand is less than 140 seats?


Yes they had 30ish frames ordered brand new directly from Airbus, although I believe that the original order was for 65 frames on firm order and 65 options. The majority of the A319s in the fleet are ex-US Airways. That explains why they have a large fleet of A319s, it's mostly due to the merger with US. They are best suited for thin routes out of MIA to the Northern part of South America.
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:24 pm

It's my understanding that one of the reasons the used 319 has become in demand is because they are so cheap to acquire; I'm hearing around $5M a frame. At those prices, they are "disposable" equipment.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:45 pm

senatorflyer wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I find fleet transitions facinating.

American Airlines is taking advantage of low used prices to expand their A319 fleet. Currently 125, per Wikipedia 8 on order for a future fleet off 133.

Also per Wikipedia, Easyjet is down to 132 A319s and is taking advantage of expiring leases to rotate them out of the fleet slowly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EasyJet

When is it expected that AA will surpass U2 and the subdivisions?
Easyjet (UK) 132 A319
Easyjet Switzerland: 10 A319
Easyjet EU: 40 A319
Total:. 182

So the question is, when will AA have more A319s than Easyjet.

Lightsaber


Not sure why Wikipedia lists 182 A319 for EasyJet. They have only got 132 in total!


Edit: Wikipedia lists the correct amount of A319, not sure how you came up with 182.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:39 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Cebu Pacific already sold basically all of their A319's to Allegiant. The only other large non-US operator of the A319 is EasyJet.


AC and BA both have decent sized fleetsof 319s.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:00 am

727200 wrote:
It's my understanding that one of the reasons the used 319 has become in demand is because they are so cheap to acquire; I'm hearing around $5M a frame. At those prices, they are "disposable" equipment.


I hear (+ have a source) $16-20 mln, dependent on airframe / engine / LDG greentime.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-31/united-airlines-is-said-near-a-deal-to-acquire-used-airbus-jets
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:47 am

Personally, I hate flying the A319. There is something about its size that it requires airlines to put the tightest pitch of any aircraft in their fleet. For example, if you look at UA's website (whom I fly most often), most of their NBs have similar pitch ranges for each class (37-39 in F, 34-36 in Y+, and 30-33 in Y). However, on the A319 its the tightest of all of those measures at 37, 34 and 30 respectively! For example, the A320 is F 39, Y+ 35 and Y 30. Their similarly sized 737-700s are F 38, Y+ 36, Y 31. Some of UA's Y+ pitch in other NBs is greater than that of F on the A319.

I remember the outcry of discomfort when AA started implementing their factory fresh A319s and how their FFs said it was too tight. I lated flew on one myself and agreed.

I know she's a little pocket rocket, but I have to think there is something about her size that's just right that with row spacing, airlines either have to leave out a row and be extra generous, or add one and be super tight. We all know which one of those options they choose. I generally avoid these, if I can at all.
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:23 pm

I assume these planes on order are replacing the E190’s that are leaving the fleet?
 
avier
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:55 pm

It's interesting how American carrier's can make the not-so-popular aircrafts work.
The E-Jets and the babyBus/boeing (A319's,737-700's) are dying out in the rest of the world considering the marginal cost difference of operating them compared to their larger family members. On a per-seat basis they cost more than the larger ones. Still it works somehow in the US because of it being such a diverse market and can support most aircraft types.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:15 pm

keesje wrote:
727200 wrote:
It's my understanding that one of the reasons the used 319 has become in demand is because they are so cheap to acquire; I'm hearing around $5M a frame. At those prices, they are "disposable" equipment.


I hear (+ have a source) $16-20 mln, dependent on airframe / engine / LDG greentime.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-31/united-airlines-is-said-near-a-deal-to-acquire-used-airbus-jets




1) Your article is a year old; a little out of date.

2) Source quoted is Levy, who isnt with the company anymore and hasnt been for a while.

3) Figure quoted is "market value" not acquisition costs; BIG difference.
 
jodieellis
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:19 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I find fleet transitions facinating.

American Airlines is taking advantage of low used prices to expand their A319 fleet. Currently 125, per Wikipedia 8 on order for a future fleet off 133.

Also per Wikipedia, Easyjet is down to 132 A319s and is taking advantage of expiring leases to rotate them out of the fleet slowly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EasyJet

When is it expected that AA will surpass U2 and the subdivisions?
Easyjet (UK) 132 A319
Easyjet Switzerland: 10 A319
Easyjet EU: 40 A319
Total:. 182

So the question is, when will AA have more A319s than Easyjet.

Lightsaber

Well I think Easyjet has already complete the last remaining A319 transferred to Allegiant/Volotea, so I think we don't know when will their further A319's are retired.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:22 pm

Beatyair wrote:
I assume these planes on order are replacing the E190’s that are leaving the fleet?

Maybe or maybe it's the 737 MAX or A321neo that are replacing it?
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:26 pm

AA is only 7 aircraft behind, and easyJet is retiring around 1 A319 per month. Even if AA does not receive new A319 yet, it can overcome U2 this winter already.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:37 pm

avier wrote:
It's interesting how American carrier's can make the not-so-popular aircrafts work.
The E-Jets and the babyBus/boeing (A319's,737-700's) are dying out in the rest of the world considering the marginal cost difference of operating them compared to their larger family members. On a per-seat basis they cost more than the larger ones. Still it works somehow in the US because of it being such a diverse market and can support most aircraft types.


There are over 1400 A319 in use, no freighters to fill those numbers. I would call that a long way from dying out. A lot of A319 are in use in China, no really big fleets, but quite a few airlines with a fleet around twenty. We can compare the A319 numbers well with for example all 737-900, 737-900ER and 737-9 and -10 delivered and on order combined. The 737-700 has only done slightly worse at about 1100 frames in use, that are not so wide dispersed.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:40 pm

avier wrote:
It's interesting how American carrier's can make the not-so-popular aircrafts work.
The E-Jets and the babyBus/boeing (A319's,737-700's) are dying out in the rest of the world considering the marginal cost difference of operating them compared to their larger family members. On a per-seat basis they cost more than the larger ones. Still it works somehow in the US because of it being such a diverse market and can support most aircraft types.


Interesting statement. Would you happen to have a source or data at hand that shows by region how those aircraft types match up? I'm seeing a tonne of RJ usage in Europe for example still so just curious how the numbers stack up. Thanks
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:45 pm

727200 wrote:
It's my understanding that one of the reasons the used 319 has become in demand is because they are so cheap to acquire; I'm hearing around $5M a frame. At those prices, they are "disposable" equipment.


Wow. At that price 25 people can spend $200,000 each and share a big private jet. Of course, they'd have to spend a little more to make the interior nice and have to pay for fuel/pilots/maintenance. I know what I'm buying if I win the powerball! Much more economical than a G6 or something similar.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:50 pm

727200 wrote:
It's my understanding that one of the reasons the used 319 has become in demand is because they are so cheap to acquire; I'm hearing around $5M a frame. At those prices, they are "disposable" equipment.


According to LAXintl's last airframe pricing thread, the A319 is selling for $5.0 - $37.0 million depending on wear.

viewtopic.php?t=1399391

$5.0mm for a frame would be for a heavily used example that I'm sure would take more maintenance work to keep airborne.
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:58 pm

osupoke07 wrote:
727200 wrote:
It's my understanding that one of the reasons the used 319 has become in demand is because they are so cheap to acquire; I'm hearing around $5M a frame. At those prices, they are "disposable" equipment.


According to LAXintl's last airframe pricing thread, the A319 is selling for $5.0 - $37.0 million depending on wear.

viewtopic.php?t=1399391

$5.0mm for a frame would be for a heavily used example that I'm sure would take more maintenance work to keep airborne.

I believe the $5M was without engines. Similarly when someone quoted Boeing as selling UA 73Gs new for ~$21M that was without engines.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:26 pm

osupoke07 wrote:
727200 wrote:
It's my understanding that one of the reasons the used 319 has become in demand is because they are so cheap to acquire; I'm hearing around $5M a frame. At those prices, they are "disposable" equipment.


According to LAXintl's last airframe pricing thread, the A319 is selling for $5.0 - $37.0 million depending on wear.

viewtopic.php?t=1399391

$5.0mm for a frame would be for a heavily used example that I'm sure would take more maintenance work to keep airborne.


So if you split the difference at $21M, that's still not too bad. It's a relatively cheap aircraft that if purchased can be shut down if the economy falters or something thus quickly shedding capacity. Even if they aren't the most fuel efficient, total cost considering low acquisition costs likely make them quite viable in this environment.

As tot he question earlier about what routes they are best on. They definitely see a good amount of CLT routes in the AA system given the smaller local market and proximity to so many major markets. If the demand is for frequency, the smaller nature of the 319 allows you to squeeze supply a bit so you're not flooding the market with too many seats when there isn't sufficient demand. From here a 319 can cover a lot of the routes AA serves.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:41 pm

planecane wrote:
727200 wrote:
It's my understanding that one of the reasons the used 319 has become in demand is because they are so cheap to acquire; I'm hearing around $5M a frame. At those prices, they are "disposable" equipment.


Wow. At that price 25 people can spend $200,000 each and share a big private jet. Of course, they'd have to spend a little more to make the interior nice and have to pay for fuel/pilots/maintenance. I know what I'm buying if I win the powerball! Much more economical than a G6 or something similar.


If your analysis were true, there’d be bunches of A319s flying as bizjets, but ain’t happening. It’s frightfully expensive, inconvenient and operationally difficult to use an airliner as a private jet. All the bills multiply rapidly when tell a handler you’re arriving in a 319/737. Parking? We’ll see what we have. Stairs? Yes, sir, it’s $2,000. Baggage handling? Yes, sir it’s $250 per man plus renting a belt loader. Adds up quick plus maintenance is dependent on airlines and you’re a side show with low priority. There’s a reason their are very few ACJs and BBJs are only slightly more common. At least, the crew can handle the bags on a 737.

GF
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:52 pm

Are operating costs substantially less than the A320?
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:57 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
osupoke07 wrote:
727200 wrote:
It's my understanding that one of the reasons the used 319 has become in demand is because they are so cheap to acquire; I'm hearing around $5M a frame. At those prices, they are "disposable" equipment.


According to LAXintl's last airframe pricing thread, the A319 is selling for $5.0 - $37.0 million depending on wear.

viewtopic.php?t=1399391

$5.0mm for a frame would be for a heavily used example that I'm sure would take more maintenance work to keep airborne.

I believe the $5M was without engines. Similarly when someone quoted Boeing as selling UA 73Gs new for ~$21M that was without engines.


Oh that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:04 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Who knows if they ever will, fleet plans can change very quickly and that is a large gap between them.


319s are the least desirable of the 319/320/321 family due to CASM and passenger number growth. I wouldn't expect any carrier to be acquiring a lot more of them.

What's the relevance of 125 A319s when AA has 219 A321s and 317 737s, frankly?
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:08 pm

The A319s work well at the U.S. ski resorts, because of the good performance while climbing out of a high-altitude airport, often on a short runway. Before the A319, AA had to use 757s. Now, that is fine both in terms of performance and cargo (think how many skis and boots go into the hold), but 188 seats is a large number to fill for a flight that skews heavily towards leisure.

But, with the retirement of the MD-80 fleet and the E190s leaving, AA does need planes between the E175 (normally 76 seats) and the A320/738 (in the 150 to 160 seat range). Assuming the economics work, buying used A319s make sense in that the cost will be low, and fares don't have to be discounted in order to fill a larger plane.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:41 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Are operating costs substantially less than the A320?


Not just for you, but hopefully this clarifies:
With Sharklets and the latest engine PIPs? No. Not like when they were new. When new, only the A319s saw the engines going full cycle counts between overhauls, now the A320s see pretty much the exact same maintenance costs. Every PIP helps the heavier airframe more than the lighter.

When new, the A320s had more hot/high restrictions. As the A319 needs 3k to 5k less thrust to takeoff, the engines were good enough. Not an issue with the latest PIPs and Sharklets for most city pairs today.

For Easyjet's high utilization duty, the A320NEO costs less per flight. For AA, the acquired A319s have low fixed costs, so are ideal for lower utilization duty. e.g., they will sit waiting for connections. G4 flies their A319s about 6.5 hours/day on average. That is why the prefer older (cheaper) planes.

The cost of a plane can be simplified to Y=Ax+B.
B=fixed costs, lease or finance+fixed maintenance bill
A=variable costs: crew, fuel, and maintenance increase due to use (cycles or hours)
x=use (cycles and hours)

Revenue is a function of seat quantity for each route.

In high utilization (9+ hours/day), the lower maintenance and fuel bill (A) pay off with the NEO.

For low utilization duty (<7 hours/day), the discounted price of used aircraft dominate. Because the A319 has lost many of it's advantages (cost per flight is closer to the A320, A320CEO shortfield has improved), it sells for a substantial discount to used A320CEOs.

US air travelers pay a substantial premium to fly at peak times (e.g., Monday morning). So it pays to have a low utilization fleet for those times and to diwngauge other aircraft during off peak times. Because US customers will pay premiums, it is worth having a large body of aircraft lying about most days flying only on peak days (see AA, DL, and G4 MD-80 fleets), but only if cheap (either purchased at low price or old paid off aircraft,).

Right now U2 is retiring an A319 per month. There is no way G4 can buy them all. G4 also opportunistically buys cheap used A320s that need more work prior to service that other airlines won't touch (Saudia used examples,, but they had more issues than G4 bargained for). G4 also is one of the few airlines willing to order new A320s, but only at rediculously low prices. Since CFM cannot make enough LEAP engines, they keep going back to G4 to keep their allocation of A320 slots by substituting CEOs.

No one has to buy a used A319. AA found the 738 resale is high (thank you WN and the sudden 733 retirement), so they sell them and either buy new or buy other airframes cheap if at the right price.

This is DL's 717 plan, but with A319s. At DL, the 717s run the routes AA will use A319s.

If the supply of A319s becomes prices, hello A220 or E2-195. There is nothing magical about the A319,CEO, this is brutal economics at work. In fact, for this size range the A220 and E2-195 will have far better economics in high utilization (9+ hours/day) even with a lease payment. So there is a cap. For example, JetBlue flies high utilization. They are claiming the will fly the A220 12 hours per day (I'm going from memory). Same with Moxie.

Fifteen years from now, there will be enough used A220 and E2-190 available to force even AA to scrap the A319s. Maybe it will take 20 years, but this is an aviation pattern that has gone on forever.

Easyjet could extend leases if the offer is low enough. The NEO delays have them slowing A319 retirement. Eventually CFM will get production to plan and then Easyjet will resume the fleet update.

So my best estimate is AA will have more A319s than Easyjet UK+. Easyjet Switzerland + Easyjet EU by this time 2020.

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subramak1
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:50 pm

I am not sure ski resorts are the main reason. The 2 main ski resorts that need an A319 capability are Vail(EGE) , Jackson Hole (JAC) and Aspen(ASE). These do not need more than 10-12 aircraft to service all the main hubs of AA. With 128 seats they would cost the same from crewing perspective. I believe, as ckfred mentioned, these fill the gap between E175 and A320/738

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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:28 pm

subramak1 wrote:
I am not sure ski resorts are the main reason. The 2 main ski resorts that need an A319 capability are Vail(EGE) , Jackson Hole (JAC) and Aspen(ASE). These do not need more than 10-12 aircraft to service all the main hubs of AA. With 128 seats they would cost the same from crewing perspective. I believe, as ckfred mentioned, these fill the gap between E175 and A320/738

Subu

319 does not and can not fly to ASE.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:06 pm

We had a thread 5 months ago on AA looking for more used aircraft, in particular A319s:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1388161

My take:. The NEO delays have dried up the used CEO market a bit. I perceive both Easyjet and Indigo have delayed releasing CEOs due to NEO delays. It seems as if the MD-80s are being asked to work a bit longer until a NEO /MAX surge releases more aircraft to the secondary market.

I cannot be the only one who expected More A220 production by now that would have had a small impact on the A319 competitiveness.


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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:38 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I find fleet transitions facinating.

American Airlines is taking advantage of low used prices to expand their A319 fleet. Currently 125, per Wikipedia 8 on order for a future fleet off 133.

Also per Wikipedia, Easyjet is down to 132 A319s and is taking advantage of expiring leases to rotate them out of the fleet slowly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EasyJet

When is it expected that AA will surpass U2 and the subdivisions?
Easyjet (UK) 132 A319
Easyjet Switzerland: 10 A319
Easyjet EU: 40 A319
Total:. 182

So the question is, when will AA have more A319s than Easyjet.

Lightsaber


Would you mind adjusting your numbers? It’s 132 A319 in total not 182. (82 UK, 10 CH and 40 AT)
 
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lightsaber
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:46 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
avier wrote:
It's interesting how American carrier's can make the not-so-popular aircrafts work.
The E-Jets and the babyBus/boeing (A319's,737-700's) are dying out in the rest of the world considering the marginal cost difference of operating them compared to their larger family members. On a per-seat basis they cost more than the larger ones. Still it works somehow in the US because of it being such a diverse market and can support most aircraft types.


There are over 1400 A319 in use, no freighters to fill those numbers. I would call that a long way from dying out. A lot of A319 are in use in China, no really big fleets, but quite a few airlines with a fleet around twenty. We can compare the A319 numbers well with for example all 737-900, 737-900ER and 737-9 and -10 delivered and on order combined. The 737-700 has only done slightly worse at about 1100 frames in use, that are not so wide dispersed.

What is amazing about the A319 is no one company really dominated. While U2 was the largest opperator, it isn't like WN and the 73G and certainly not AA in the MD-80 peak.

It was as you note lots of airlines with a few in the fleet.

Part of the reason I'm obsessed with NEO/MAX, and C-series production is that I made predictions on A319 resale values years ago. Currently the frames are worth more than my predictions, but that is due to a scramble to get replacements for delayed deliveries.

I fully expect Easyjet to order more aircraft. More NEOs or A220? They are one where having Airbus on board changes the possibility. I could see an order for a hundred A220-300
:hyper:

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subramak1
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:49 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
subramak1 wrote:
I am not sure ski resorts are the main reason. The 2 main ski resorts that need an A319 capability are Vail(EGE) , Jackson Hole (JAC) and Aspen(ASE). These do not need more than 10-12 aircraft to service all the main hubs of AA. With 128 seats they would cost the same from crewing perspective. I believe, as ckfred mentioned, these fill the gap between E175 and A320/738

Subu

319 does not and can not fly to ASE.


Thanks. I was not aware of the restriction. Do you know why?

Subu
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:59 pm

Too much wingspan, 95’ is maximum but there are exceptions for G550 and Globals. The limit is based on runway distance from ramp and taxiways. There’s a design for fixing those clearances.

GF
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:10 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Too much wingspan, 95’ is maximum but there are exceptions for G550 and Globals. The limit is based on runway distance from ramp and taxiways. There’s a design for fixing those clearances.

GF


Thanks

Subu
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:42 am

TWFlyGuy wrote:
As tot he question earlier about what routes they are best on. They definitely see a good amount of CLT routes in the AA system given the smaller local market and proximity to so many major markets. If the demand is for frequency, the smaller nature of the 319 allows you to squeeze supply a bit so you're not flooding the market with too many seats when there isn't sufficient demand. From here a 319 can cover a lot of the routes AA serves.


This got me interested so I check AA's A319 usage by hub for today (8/29)
HUB A319 Mainline % Total %
CLT 101 299 33.78% 665 15.19%
DFW 29 438 6.62% 742 3.91%
MIA 46 233 19.74% 307 14.98%
PHL 31 167 18.56% 378 8.20%
DCA 23 66 34.85% 255 9.02%
PHX 30 149 20.13% 233 12.88%
ORD 5 195 2.56% 467 1.07%
LAX 12 125 9.60% 200 6.00%
LGA 3 67 4.48% 173 1.73%
JFK 0 73 0.00% 99 0.00%

So CLT has by far the most departures, but DCA has the highest % of A319s flown. MIA & PHX is also quite high on usage.
717, 733, 734, 738, 744, 752, 763, 772, 77W, 789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A333, A359, MD88, CRJ, CR7, CR9, DH1, DH2, DH3, S340, ER4, E170, E175, E190/CO, NW, US, AC, NH, AA, UA, DL, WN, WS, SK, VY, LA, QF, AR, AV, MH, KA
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:41 am

It is good to see A319 getting some love, looking at the production list, sad to see many recent (young) built are scrapped. The youngest being ex-Silk Air MSN 3104, scrapped at nine years young.
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:14 pm

I believe I double added and AA will exceed U2 on current contracts. 132 total flying for U2 per airfleets.

https://www.airfleets.net/exploit/production-a319.htm

juliuswong wrote:
It is good to see A319 getting some love, looking at the production list, sad to see many recent (young) built are scrapped. The youngest being ex-Silk Air MSN 3104, scrapped at nine years young.

A few years ago A319 resale was poor. Because the prices were so low, AA, G4 and UA switched strategies and started buying. Prices are high now, but since EU LCCs have latched onto the second hand market, I expect every A319 that wasn't damaged and has good maintenance records to find a home below 18 years and below 48,000 cycles/90,000 hours.

The most used examples or corrosion queens will naturally be scrapped.

Lightsaber

Late edit:
I've heard rumblings that Airbus is looking into one more LOV extension for the A32x family.

The prior attempt for 90,000 cycles and 180,000 hours was too much (current limit 60,000 cycles or 120,000 hours). I'm hearing more about hours than cycle extension with some doublers and part changes. Has anyone heard anything else? I cannot get a number out of my rumor mill.

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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:04 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I believe I double added and AA will exceed U2 on current contracts. 132 total flying for U2


Lol
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:21 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I believe I double added and AA will exceed U2 on current contracts. 132 total flying for U2 per airfleets.

https://www.airfleets.net/exploit/production-a319.htm

juliuswong wrote:
It is good to see A319 getting some love, looking at the production list, sad to see many recent (young) built are scrapped. The youngest being ex-Silk Air MSN 3104, scrapped at nine years young.

A few years ago A319 resale was poor. Because the prices were so low, AA, G4 and UA switched strategies and started buying. Prices are high now, but since EU LCCs have latched onto the second hand market, I expect every A319 that wasn't damaged and has good maintenance records to find a home below 18 years and below 48,000 cycles/90,000 hours.

The most used examples or corrosion queens will naturally be scrapped.

Lightsaber

Late edit:
I've heard rumblings that Airbus is looking into one more LOV extension for the A32x family.

The prior attempt for 90,000 cycles and 180,000 hours was too much (current limit 60,000 cycles or 120,000 hours). I'm hearing more about hours than cycle extension with some doublers and part changes. Has anyone heard anything else? I cannot get a number out of my rumor mill.

Lightsaber

I'm still gonna take a wait and see approach on if any go for the proposed higher LOV extension. We are a few years out before the first DL frames are ready to bump up against either limit. Even if cycles were low so that they could hit the new hour limit, I would be very skeptical it would be too cost effective. These used aircraft buys for the US3 are fun to watch. DL seems to have gotten it out of their system save for a few 738s, but UA and AA have decided on big used Airbus buys. WN have also stopped their used buys of 73Gs, and don't seem interested in any used 738s. The used side might be better with Boeings in the near term, but it's gonna take a bankruptcy or two to release a good number of used frames on the market. So much for the narrowbody bubble. As usual, the engines are going to be the limiting factor.
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sergegva
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:27 am

sergegva wrote:
AA is only 7 aircraft behind, and easyJet is retiring around 1 A319 per month. Even if AA does not receive new A319 yet, it can overcome U2 this winter already.


According to planespotters, AA received last friday (November 30th) its 126th Airbus A319 (an ex-Frontier Airlines). When it enters into service, AA will operate the most A319s, exceeding easyJet (currently with 125).
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:04 am

They must be getting them really cheap. An A320/321 is almost always better to operate.
 
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Re: When will American Airlines have largest A319 fleet?

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:53 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
They must be getting them really cheap. An A320/321 is almost always better to operate.


Isn’t that a given? Same reason DL acquired the 717. It’s like being a Colgate guy but seeing Aquafresh on sale for a fraction of the price.
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