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SANFan
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Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska Airlines adds SEA-CMH (from March 7, 2019)

Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:14 pm

Thank you mods.

bb
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines adds SEA-CMH (from March 1, 2019)

Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:06 am

ucdtim17 wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Decent connections are possible to/from CMH if originating from PDX, SFO, LAX, ANC and others. It won't be only P2P on this route. Any 'subsidy' is likely a marketing budget in Columbus to herald the new route...pretty standard offering from the new airport/community on an unserved market.


There are not going to be many SFO-SEA-CMH or LAX-SEA-CMH fliers. Both markets have nonstops on other carriers, so the choices are 4 hour nonstop or 9 hour trip through SEA that will likely be twice as expensive, as AS does not generally price for connections like that through SEA.


I don't think there's a nonstop CMH-SFO currently on any carrier, or any planned. If you're counting Oakland on WN, that's a stretch. Your average traveler doesn't know to check OAK separately from SFO. If they're looking for a SFO-CMH flight, they are probably not going to look beyond the search results that Southwest provides in this market - and they don't suggest looking at OAK for a nonstop. Searching any of the online agencies isn't going to help either as Southwest doesn't participate. I'm often surprised by the connections via SEA from the east coast on Alaska.
 
ucdtim17
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines adds SEA-CMH (from March 1, 2019)

Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:13 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Decent connections are possible to/from CMH if originating from PDX, SFO, LAX, ANC and others. It won't be only P2P on this route. Any 'subsidy' is likely a marketing budget in Columbus to herald the new route...pretty standard offering from the new airport/community on an unserved market.


There are not going to be many SFO-SEA-CMH or LAX-SEA-CMH fliers. Both markets have nonstops on other carriers, so the choices are 4 hour nonstop or 9 hour trip through SEA that will likely be twice as expensive, as AS does not generally price for connections like that through SEA.


I don't think there's a nonstop CMH-SFO currently on any carrier, or any planned. If you're counting Oakland on WN, that's a stretch. Your average traveler doesn't know to check OAK separately from SFO. If they're looking for a SFO-CMH flight, they are probably not going to look beyond the search results that Southwest provides in this market - and they don't suggest looking at OAK for a nonstop. Searching any of the online agencies isn't going to help either as Southwest doesn't participate. I'm often surprised by the connections via SEA from the east coast on Alaska.


WN isn't exactly a niche carrier; it's the largest domestic airline. If someone has their heart set on SFO, then no the option won't help, but for most travelers to/from the Bay Area it is a plenty convenient option.

(Although in the new schedule release it's Saturday-only. So we'll see if it really returns as a regular daily.)
 
jaxfss
Posts: 28
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Re: Alaska Airlines adds SEA-CMH (from March 7, 2019)

Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:24 pm

Is this flight going to code share with AA. If so, can Alaska use one of AA's gate.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Alaska Airlines adds SEA-CMH (from March 1, 2019)

Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:17 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:

There are not going to be many SFO-SEA-CMH or LAX-SEA-CMH fliers. Both markets have nonstops on other carriers, so the choices are 4 hour nonstop or 9 hour trip through SEA that will likely be twice as expensive, as AS does not generally price for connections like that through SEA.


I don't think there's a nonstop CMH-SFO currently on any carrier, or any planned. If you're counting Oakland on WN, that's a stretch. Your average traveler doesn't know to check OAK separately from SFO. If they're looking for a SFO-CMH flight, they are probably not going to look beyond the search results that Southwest provides in this market - and they don't suggest looking at OAK for a nonstop. Searching any of the online agencies isn't going to help either as Southwest doesn't participate. I'm often surprised by the connections via SEA from the east coast on Alaska.


WN isn't exactly a niche carrier; it's the largest domestic airline. If someone has their heart set on SFO, then no the option won't help, but for most travelers to/from the Bay Area it is a plenty convenient option.

(Although in the new schedule release it's Saturday-only. So we'll see if it really returns as a regular daily.)


Yeah, I didn't insinuate anywhere that WN was a niche carrier - but OAK is an airport that is very familiar to many people on the west coast, in particular in California. Beyond that, not as much. If someone from Columbus wants to travel to San Francisco they very well could have no idea what so ever how far the two are from each other. But I do agree - OAK is very convenient for many people traveling to SFO, many people just don't know that.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: CMH New Service Announcement 8/29/18, 9:30AM

Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:17 pm

zackary747 wrote:
axiom wrote:
You're both right. CSAs and MSAs are flawed and imperfect ways of estimating a market for aviation service. The important questions are always 1. How many people live within a distance of X from an airport, 2. How often to they fly, and 3. Where do they fly?

There's really no point in splitting hairs. I'm inclined to support the view that CLE has a larger catchment, even if CMH is posing stronger growth.


I agree. Population is a small factor compared to the whole spectrum. The business community, how big it is, and diverse it is, and how much they travel is more important. Calgary has a 1.3 million metro population (Much smaller compared to IND, CVG, CMH, etc.) but yet look at all the TATL service they get. I think they're a prime example of population isn't everything, but rather the business community and the ability for the business community and the local govt. to be able to collaborate well. I'm sure their tourism business is doing well but then again the tourism industry and local government have to collaborate just like any other industry in the market.


Calgary is a bad example. Canada is a huge country but has a ridiculously low population density, especially west of the Windsor-Quebec City corridor. If a market the size of CMH or CLE was located in southern Alberta it would have service levels akin to DTW or MSP (or YVR using a Canadian example) without any "collaboration" due to the limited amount of Canadian int'l gateways and the gigantic area it would serve. Ohio large cities are wedged between the larger regions of Detroit-Chicago and the East Coast, therein lies the problem for these markets.
 
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zackary747
Posts: 586
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Re: CMH New Service Announcement 8/29/18, 9:30AM

Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:24 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
zackary747 wrote:
axiom wrote:
You're both right. CSAs and MSAs are flawed and imperfect ways of estimating a market for aviation service. The important questions are always 1. How many people live within a distance of X from an airport, 2. How often to they fly, and 3. Where do they fly?

There's really no point in splitting hairs. I'm inclined to support the view that CLE has a larger catchment, even if CMH is posing stronger growth.


I agree. Population is a small factor compared to the whole spectrum. The business community, how big it is, and diverse it is, and how much they travel is more important. Calgary has a 1.3 million metro population (Much smaller compared to IND, CVG, CMH, etc.) but yet look at all the TATL service they get. I think they're a prime example of population isn't everything, but rather the business community and the ability for the business community and the local govt. to be able to collaborate well. I'm sure their tourism business is doing well but then again the tourism industry and local government have to collaborate just like any other industry in the market.


Calgary is a bad example. Canada is a huge country but has a ridiculously low population density, especially west of the Windsor-Quebec City corridor. If a market the size of CMH or CLE was located in southern Alberta it would have service levels akin to DTW or MSP without any "collaboration" due to limited amount of Canadian int'l gateways and the gigantic area it would serve.


You do have a good point and that is very possible. Regardless I am pretty certain that Calgary's business community and local government communicate very well and collaboration is required for any city to be successful regardless of their population. Also, I looked at Edmonton airport and they only have KLM to AMS as far as I could tell, so once again collaboration from the business community and local govt. is more important than population and location. Yes, population and location do have an effect but said city has to take advantage of it and actually use it to their advantage. There are plenty of places out there that have natural assets in their location that aren't being used to their full potential, therefore affecting economic growth in their city.
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