Cointrin330 wrote:

DLHAM wrote:

Naples is interesting, is United the first US Airline to fly there? Naples itself is ugly and boring for the most part, but the surroundings ... Amalfi Coast!

Naples is hardly boring, though it has a lot of rough edges. It is a major cruise port, a gateway to the Amalfi Coast, Capri, Sorrento, and Pompeii, and Naples Airport is the fastest growing airport in Italy and very well served and connected to all of Europe by legacy and LCC's.

NAP is LCC heaven but still somewhat lacking in one-stop connectivity to much of the US. We flew NAP-FRA and the flight was entirely American tourists connecting to other LH flights. The UA flight will dramatically improve NAP's accessibility.

[twoid][/twoid]

simpv wrote:

Wow, 789 on the SFO-AMS, year round. There must be a ton of demand on that route.

Cargo would be good. Fresh flowers are a big export and get charged by their larger volume not relatively lower weight

I would think there are some cruise lines dictating the NAP service.

As for those 2 flight attendants worrying about hotels: Unless you are very senior, the UA FA's will get these routes. But don't worry, OMA, TUL, and BIS will be open for junior and will be for a long time..

STT757 wrote:

Cointrin330 wrote:

IAHWorldflyer wrote:

NAP surprises me. It's good for Amalfi coast tourists and the like, but there are some more difficulties in doing business in that part of Italy. UA has grown their Italian presence in the last 3 years. Going from 1x IAD-FCO and 1x EWR-MXP to adding FCO-ORD and EWR, along with EWR- VCE. I'm a bit surprised they don't do a second service in summer to MXP from ORD or IAD.

Not exactly correct. CO served MXP and FCO from EWR for a long time. UA did not "add" EWR-FCO. It inherited the route from CO and turned it to a seasonal one for a time (CO also went seasonal on and off) and resumed year round with reduced frequency in the winter once NAX entered the market. FCO-ORD was in place and has not been a recent add. UA has flown it for years. EWR-VCE was added a few years ago.

CO launched EWR-FCO in conjunction with AZ in 1992 or 1993 with the famous DC-10 painted in half CO/ AZ colors. CO operated EWR-FCO with a DC-10 and AZ flew EWR-MXP with a 763.

In 2013 EWR to FCO was seasonal summer only. Same in 2014. Only year-round service to FCO was from IAD. In 2015, all winter service was suspended. In 2016 EWR-FCO resumed as summer seasonal, along with ORD-FCO. Finally in 2017 EWR-FCO was returned to year-round service. IAD is about 9 months of service and ORD has a little less than that. EWR-MXP has always been year-round, though I think less than daily in January-February.

kiowa wrote:

Great adds United! Now for ORD——-

There are a few comments on Flying Together asking when will ORD finally have its turn. From what has been stated publicly and from some of the rumors I've heard here at Willis UA is still mulling over whether to move forward with growth at IAD which would include more TATL service from that hub and there is DEN and the rumor UA could add an additional TATL flight from there as well. From what I've been hearing (rumor of course) is ORD's time will come.

L410Turbolet wrote:

United plans the EWR service for just three summer months. It's not even worth reporting, imho.

Yes it is worth reporting, I've asked around here at work and found out one of the reasons these particular seasonal flights are starting so late in the season is because of the on going Polaris installations, the extensive modifications needed on the ex-Hawaiian birds, and waiting for 787-10 deliveries. According to an internal memo, UA expect all 3 ex-Hawaiian birds to be in service by May 2019. UA also expects to have a total of nine 787-10s in our fleet by the middle of April 2019, these aircraft after delivery still have to go through induction which sometimes takes time. If everything stays on schedule UA may have enough widebodies in the fleet to free up the 763s required for NAP and PRG in early May. If for any number of reasons the schedule were to slip and those 763's aren't free UA would be forced to cancel NAP and PRG or downguage/cancel other international flights just to launch these flights. Having these seasonal flights start so late in the season is by design and its to save UA from an embarrassing moment of having launch date arrive and no aircraft to fly the routes.

So in 2019 United's biggest stations in Europe are (on own metal):

London Heathrow - One World = 7x routes:
- EWR-LHR
- IAD-LHR
- ORD-LHR
- IAH-LHR
- SFO-LHR
- LAX-LHR
- DEN-LHR

Frankfurt - STAR Alliance = 5x routes:
- EWR-FRA
- IAD-FRA
- ORD-FRA
- IAH-FRA
- SFO-FRA

Amsterdam - SKYTEAM = 5x routes:
- EWR-AMS B764
- IAD-AMS B763
- ORD-AMS B763
- IAH-AMS B772
- SFO-AMS B789

An impressive network.

factsonly wrote:

So in 2019 United's biggest stations in Europe are (on own metal):

London Heathrow - One World = 7x routes:
- EWR-LHR
- IAD-LHR
- ORD-LHR
- IAH-LHR
- SFO-LHR
- LAX-LHR
- DEN-LHR

Frankfurt - STAR Alliance = 5x routes:
- EWR-FRA
- IAD-FRA
- ORD-FRA
- IAH-FRA
- SFO-FRA

Amsterdam - SKYTEAM = 5x routes:
- EWR-AMS B764
- IAD-AMS B763
- ORD-AMS B763
- IAH-AMS B772
- SFO-AMS B789

An impressive network.

If I'm not mistaken, UA also flies 5x routes (EWR, IAH, ORD, IAD and SFO seasonally) to MUC, which is also an impressive shift when considering FRA took most of the connecting passengers for years.

I'm very suprised BUD hasn't made it yet for United. I understand AC and LO fly to North America, but I figured UA could fill a 763 to BUD in the summer like AA from PHL. Maybe next year...

Cheers,
KLAXAirport

jfklganyc wrote:

FCO was flown from EWR with CO on DC 10s. Did it ever end?

It did as UA a few years ago when it became seasonal. I think it was on a sUA 777. EWR-IST was also on a sUA 763 a few years back and got cancelled.

EWR-PRG is probably in response to AA's success on PHL-PRG. I wouldn't be surprised if UA operates EWR-WAW at some point too.

727200 wrote:

I would think there are some cruise lines dictating the NAP service.

AFAIK there are no or at least not many cruises starting or ending in Naples. They are stopping there but that does not generate air traffic.
The area has incredible vacation spots, the question is whether that is enough to fill the front cabin.

fraT wrote:

727200 wrote:

I would think there are some cruise lines dictating the NAP service.

AFAIK there are no or at least not many cruises starting or ending in Naples. They are stopping there but that does not generate air traffic.
The area has incredible vacation spots, the question is whether that is enough to fill the front cabin.

Lately the Amalfi coast, Capri, Positano etc.. Have been the hot celebrity vacation spot. It's definitely been discovered, took my wife there on our honeymoon twelve years ago. Gorgeous.

Ha if they had made this available sooner, I might have flown it this year. I can see a lot of summer demand to nap. Mostly for amalfi coast but also a lot of places people would go in southern Italy.

727200 wrote:

I would think there are some cruise lines dictating the NAP service.

As for those 2 flight attendants worrying about hotels: Unless you are very senior, the UA FA's will get these routes. But don't worry, OMA, TUL, and BIS will be open for junior and will be for a long time..

If an earlier post was correct--that the contract requires a centrally located (downtown) hotel for long-haul flights--then the "UA FAs" must be gluttons for punishment. Central Naples is a stinking, chaotic, crime infested wonderland that only those with a legacy-worthy persecution complex could love.

Having said that, for those who truly have time to escape the chaos of the city, this flight will make the pleasures of Capri and the Amalfi Coast that much more tantalizing. I'll buy a seat.

How cute! The big airlines are now all of a sudden caring about the lesser European cities now that they’ve got competition (or will), not because they really want to be there.

Good to see Italy getting some attention

AA to Bologna and now UA to Napoli. Great news.

Why SFO-AMS? How would they feed traffic through a SkyTeam hub?

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Why SFO-AMS? How would they feed traffic through a SkyTeam hub?

The same way KLM feeds traffic for 2 flights a day thru SFO???

Yes, peculiar they haven't added ATH or VCE from another gateway. They just keep adding into EWR. OPO and KEF are coming back so that's great news. It's like EWR is their favourite hub with SFO as a close #2.

I guess it's a given HAM and ARN are returning.

727200 wrote:

I would think there are some cruise lines dictating the NAP service.

As for those 2 flight attendants worrying about hotels: Unless you are very senior, the UA FA's will get these routes. But don't worry, OMA, TUL, and BIS will be open for junior and will be for a long time..

727-200, Remember that starting in a few weeks (OCTOBER 1) all of United's F/As become ONE single group. No more sub-Co or sub-UA . We will all be 'UNITED' - - I am SFO-based. just over 18 years (considered very junior still ). And we'll be able to trade and pick up trips that are out of our own physical base. Awesome. I'll be happy with holding MIA, BOS, CHS, MSY - - and maybe, maybe CUN.

onaclearday wrote:

727200 wrote:

I would think there are some cruise lines dictating the NAP service.

As for those 2 flight attendants worrying about hotels: Unless you are very senior, the UA FA's will get these routes. But don't worry, OMA, TUL, and BIS will be open for junior and will be for a long time..

If an earlier post was correct--that the contract requires a centrally located (downtown) hotel for long-haul flights--then the "UA FAs" must be gluttons for punishment. Central Naples is a stinking, chaotic, crime infested wonderland that only those with a legacy-worthy persecution complex could love.

Having said that, for those who truly have time to escape the chaos of the city, this flight will make the pleasures of Capri and the Amalfi Coast that much more tantalizing. I'll buy a seat.

Well, the pilots (ALPA) can always choose to be somewhere closer to the airport too. The company would happily oblige with such a request. However, Given the crime rate of Naples, I’m assuming pilots will just be given a fancier hotel still in the city. Maybe the Grand Hotel Vesuvio or the Hotel Excelsior. One can only hope!

If it’s a real dangerous area, there’s an armed security detail present, and crews may not be allowed to leave hotel property. Some airports in Africa required this. However, in the case of a place like Naples, crews would just be met at the airport with a private limo/bus from a vetted operator and then given a briefing on the area when going out to dinner etc.

Most people don’t realize it, but There’s an entire team comprised of airline/union personnel that physically travels to each new destination and selects a hotel or grouping of hotels that will house crews. They even test the quality of the water in each hotel! They are the pickiest travelers you will ever meet. However, it’s a good thing they are, because pilot’s are just as picky. By vetting the hotels beforehand, the airline can attempt to minimize complaints by the pilot group.

klwright69 wrote:

Yes, peculiar they haven't added ATH or VCE from another gateway.

I was actually holding my breath for ORD-ATH and AA beat them to it out of nowhere.

UA will now have the smallest presence out of the three US majors in ATH (despite the Star Alliance link) with its one daily 767 to EWR.

I can see IAD-ATH being the next US route to ATH (unless DL give ATL another shot).

A little off-topic (since everyone is talking about Europe), but I'm wondering if UA is contemplating on ORD-ICN anytime soon.

OlympicATH wrote:

klwright69 wrote:

Yes, peculiar they haven't added ATH or VCE from another gateway.

I was actually holding my breath for ORD-ATH and AA beat them to it out of nowhere.

UA will now have the smallest presence out of the three US majors in ATH (despite the Star Alliance link) with its one daily 767 to EWR.

I can see IAD-ATH being the next US route to ATH (unless DL give ATL another shot).

The problem with UA on ORD-ATH, is that they wouldn't listen to Premiers or employees, who constantly suggested it, for the longest time. They certainly did have plenty of opportunities, but didn't go for it.

As for IAD, that would be the only logical choice. So it's IAD or nothing. And more likely nothing, once DL adds another ATH trip.

Although ATL is the better DL hub, they could just as easily launch it from DTW or BOS, where there is more local traffic.

Once again, ATH is a summer route with all discounted travel. The business climate in Greece, unless you are working on restructuring debt, is not very good. Hence the demand for high paying business fares is pretty much non-existent. The local Greek community may want a lot of things, but this is very low on the totem pole for fruition. Why send a plane to Greece hoping it breaks even, when it can go elsewhere and make money?

Glad to see PRG getting some US TATL flights since OK retired their A310s a few years back.

727200 wrote:

Once again, ATH is a summer route with all discounted travel. The business climate in Greece, unless you are working on restructuring debt, is not very good. Hence the demand for high paying business fares is pretty much non-existent. The local Greek community may want a lot of things, but this is very low on the totem pole for fruition. Why send a plane to Greece hoping it breaks even, when it can go elsewhere and make money?

No one is saying airlines should fly to Greece for the sake of it or to satisfy local communities. The point is that UA (among others) have been slow at seeing the potential in ATH when others are expanding there, which means they are making money and see an opportunity. DL added a second daily to JFK a couple of years ago, AA announced ORD-ATH for next summer on top of the existing PHL-ATH, and EK now has a daily year-round 773 to EWR.

Agreed, the current business environment is far from ideal. However Athens is a capital city of 4 million people that used to sustain multiple daily flights to the US year round pre financial crisis (on OA but also DL and CO). And while tourism clearly peaks in the summer months, Greece (and in particular Athens) is increasingly popular year-round.

There is a market, which others seem to have identified and have been quicker to address.

deltadudejg wrote:

Glad to see PRG getting some US TATL flights since OK retired their A310s a few years back.

Didn't DL take over the OK service, albeit seasonally? They are seasonal JFK-PRG on a B764 or A330.

Regarding Naples, within the next few years the metro will connect the airport, which is very close to the city, to both the main railway station (4 stops) and the port (7 stops). It means you can connect to the whole Southern Italy by train or ferry in a very convenient, cheap and fast way.
Campania of course, but also Apulia, Lucania, Calabria, Capri, Amalfi Coast, Ischia, Eolie islands.

It could be even an alternative way to get to Rome (4 metro stops NAP --》 Napoli Centrale station, then --》 to Roma Termini station in 1h onboard the very frequent high speed trains).

US carriers have added a lot of capacity to Europe recently, I do wonder if this will somewhat affect their performance to their partners' hubs on the Old Continent.

There are still several seasonal destinations they can consider: Vienna, Belgrade, Thessaloniki, Bucharest, Thessaloniki...

727200 wrote:

Once again, ATH is a summer route with all discounted travel. The business climate in Greece, unless you are working on restructuring debt, is not very good. Hence the demand for high paying business fares is pretty much non-existent. The local Greek community may want a lot of things, but this is very low on the totem pole for fruition. Why send a plane to Greece hoping it breaks even, when it can go elsewhere and make money?

You do realize Athens added some 1.400.000 passengers this year? On top of that, Delta and American are both expanding meaning that there is a market to be served. That said, United's best chance was to launch ORD-ATH but AA beat them to the punch. Now they are 'stuck' with their seasonal, daily B764 from EWR while being the only US carrier to face direct competition to Athens. Both Delta and American are enjoying a monopoly on routes they serve to Greece.

Also, don't forget that most islands have been spared from the economic crisis mostly thanks to a combination of not paying taxes to the government while having a large income from tourism. I know this is anedctodal evidence but I just came back from a Greek island and you could literally see American tourists on every corner.

Maybe it's time for UA to be creative and to launch two weekly EWR-SKG on the B763.

chrisnh wrote:

How cute! The big airlines are now all of a sudden caring about the lesser European cities now that they’ve got competition (or will), not because they really want to be there.

This probably has a lot to do, and those are 2016 figures:

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/a-reco ... -last-year

A Record 80 Million Americans Traveled Abroad Last Year

According to Skift, officials say this jump can mostly be chalked up to a strong dollar, the rise of low-cost, long-haul carriers, and the U.K.'s Brexit vote, all of which equaled more affordable travel and helped incentivize people to take more trips. Travel to Mexico and Canada saw a nine percent bump over 2016, and more than 13.6 million Americans visited Europe last year—an eight percent increase. (We're guessing that Canada's sesquicentennial, Mexico's tequila tourism, and Europe's new train journeys for foodies kept travelers interested.)

aemoreira1981 wrote:

deltadudejg wrote:

Glad to see PRG getting some US TATL flights since OK retired their A310s a few years back.

Didn't DL take over the OK service, albeit seasonally? They are seasonal JFK-PRG on a B764 or A330.

DL originally started ATL-PRG in summer 2007 and then started JFK-PRG summer 2009; OK stopped flying to JFK in October 2009. DL currently flies JFK-PRG seasonally with the 764.

chrisnh wrote:

How cute! The big airlines are now all of a sudden caring about the lesser European cities now that they’ve got competition (or will), not because they really want to be there.

Actually, CO and later DL already started going into secondary European cities more than a decade ago. For example, back in 2006-2009, DL already started flying to places like AGP, BUD, OTP, KBP, PRG, and PSA. Of course, once fuel prices shot up and the world economy tanked, a lot of those were culled.

panamair wrote:

chrisnh wrote:

How cute! The big airlines are now all of a sudden caring about the lesser European cities now that they’ve got competition (or will), not because they really want to be there.

Actually, CO and later DL already started going into secondary European cities more than a decade ago. For example, back in 2006-2009, DL already started flying to places like AGP, BUD, OTP, KBP, PRG, and PSA. Of course, once fuel prices shot up and the world economy tanked, a lot of those were culled.

And some of them never came back, for instance JFK-VLC on Delta. It seems that towards the end of every economic cycle, carriers launch more secondary destinations trying to expand their footprint and keep growing. Scary

Hmm... I would have expected DEN-AMS before SFO-AMS, since the latter already faces competition from DL/KLM, while DEN doesn't at all...

STT757 wrote:

Cointrin330 wrote:

IAHWorldflyer wrote:

NAP surprises me. It's good for Amalfi coast tourists and the like, but there are some more difficulties in doing business in that part of Italy. UA has grown their Italian presence in the last 3 years. Going from 1x IAD-FCO and 1x EWR-MXP to adding FCO-ORD and EWR, along with EWR- VCE. I'm a bit surprised they don't do a second service in summer to MXP from ORD or IAD.

Not exactly correct. CO served MXP and FCO from EWR for a long time. UA did not "add" EWR-FCO. It inherited the route from CO and turned it to a seasonal one for a time (CO also went seasonal on and off) and resumed year round with reduced frequency in the winter once NAX entered the market. FCO-ORD was in place and has not been a recent add. UA has flown it for years. EWR-VCE was added a few years ago.

CO launched EWR-FCO in conjunction with AZ in 1992 or 1993 with the famous DC-10 painted in half CO/ AZ colors. CO operated EWR-FCO with a DC-10 and AZ flew EWR-MXP with a 763.

IIRC, For a time the AZ 763 was a wetleased QF aircraft in AZ colors. The route has a colorful past!

panamair wrote:

chrisnh wrote:

How cute! The big airlines are now all of a sudden caring about the lesser European cities now that they’ve got competition (or will), not because they really want to be there.

Actually, CO and later DL already started going into secondary European cities more than a decade ago. For example, back in 2006-2009, DL already started flying to places like AGP, BUD, OTP, KBP, PRG, and PSA. Of course, once fuel prices shot up and the world economy tanked, a lot of those were culled.

It has literally been about 20 years since CO started pioneering some of these routes. Some are still running today like SNN or GLA, other never got off the ground like RTM, SVO (and while not Euro CAI)

What is overlooked in the Greece market, are two things.....(1) Greece no longer has their own carrier that does transatlantic service, and (2) there used to be charters during peak Summer seasons, in the past, but not now.

"Tourist" travel doesn't always equate to "cheap tickets"---- there are some people that do luxury vacations......not only in Santorini, but also the lesser-known Chalkidiki(which is near SKG). Additionally, the Waldorf-Astoria is building a hotel and golf course in Sitia(eastern Crete) which should be open next year.

Freshside3 wrote:

What is overlooked in the Greece market, are two things.....(1) Greece no longer has their own carrier that does transatlantic service, and (2) there used to be charters during peak Summer seasons, in the past, but not now.

"Tourist" travel doesn't always equate to "cheap tickets"---- there are some people that do luxury vacations......not only in Santorini, but also the lesser-known Chalkidiki(which is near SKG). Additionally, the Waldorf-Astoria is building a hotel and golf course in Sitia(eastern Crete) which should be open next year.

Well, yes and no. AA is adding seasonal ORD-ATH on the 787-8 next year. That adds to existing PHL-ATH, plus Delta's double daily JFK-ATH and the EWR-ATH flight on UA (and then there is EK from EWR as well, year round). I could see one more add. Greece is very popular again with tourists (it never really stopped being so). Having flown EWR-ATH in June on UA I can tell you the plane was packed.

What's surprising to me is that United isn't making the most of Aegean being a Star Alliance member. They have a growing domestic, regional and Middle Eastern network. United could offer connections to many destinations which could even help in turning EWR into a year-round destination.Yet in the end it's Delta and American, both having feed only one one end, that are thriving in Athens.

Does anyone know whether UA will announce additional TATL flights for next year, or is this it? Somewhat surprised that IAD's only new flight (so far) is TLV, but then again that flight departs in the late 22:00 bank. Perhaps UA has no gates available during the main 17:00 European departure bank.

fightforlove wrote:

Any possibility of United adding an ORD-PRG service? CSA used to come to ORD, since then nothing.

Sorry but CSA never operated ORD. Only JFK, EWR, YYZ and YUL.

What do you mean? United flies a nonstop seasonal service to Athens. Just as Delta does, and American will do next summer. It's American that's joining the party.

Blerg wrote:

What's surprising to me is that United isn't making the most of Aegean being a Star Alliance member. They have a growing domestic, regional and Middle Eastern network. United could offer connections to many destinations which could even help in turning EWR into a year-round destination.Yet in the end it's Delta and American, both having feed only one one end, that are thriving in Athens.

Blerg wrote:

What's surprising to me is that United isn't making the most of Aegean being a Star Alliance member. They have a growing domestic, regional and Middle Eastern network. United could offer connections to many destinations which could even help in turning EWR into a year-round destination.Yet in the end it's Delta and American, both having feed only one one end, that are thriving in Athens.

They don't even codeshare with each other

On the other hand, other than going to islands in Greece, Aegean provide zero advantage compare to LH or TK. Plus any flights to/from ATH is targeting traffic (leisure and the limited business) to/from Greece anyway. Connection via alliance is heavily overrated especially when there are already larger players (LH/TK, or even LO/LX/OS) doing a much better job.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Why SFO-AMS? How would they feed traffic through a SkyTeam hub?

Adria - Ljubjana (6x week)
Aegean - Athens (7x Week)
Air Canada - Toronto (7x Week)
Austrian Airlines - Vienna (27x week)
Croatian Airlines - Zagreb (9x week)
Egypt Air - Caïro (7x Week)
Eva Air - Bangkok/Taipei (7x Week)
LOT - Warsaw (28x week)
Lufthansa - Frankfurt , München (79x week)
SAS - Oslo, Stockholm, Copenhagen (59x week)
Singapore Airlines - Singapore (7x week)
Swiss - Zürich (28x week)
TAP - Lisbon, Porto (28x week)
Turkish Airlines - Istanbul (Ataturk/Sabiha Gokcen) (35x week)
United Airlines - Chicago, Houston, Newark, San Francisco, Washington (35x week)
----------------------------------------------
366 Star Alliance week flights = 52 daily.
There are even connections on Star via AMS. Wouldn't be surprised if the new A-pier/Terminal will get a Star Alliance Lounge.

So apart from O&D and freight in Amsterdam, Star could funnel traffic via Amsterdam if the timing/connections are right. Someone on another forum found connections on AC numbers from Toronto to Zagreb via Amterdam.

Blerg wrote:

What's surprising to me is that United isn't making the most of Aegean being a Star Alliance member. They have a growing domestic, regional and Middle Eastern network. United could offer connections to many destinations which could even help in turning EWR into a year-round destination.Yet in the end it's Delta and American, both having feed only one one end, that are thriving in Athens.

While they have a nice network, for a lot of destinations it involves backtracking. And other carriers in Europe offer flights to many of the same destinations.
Secondly, while they have recieved the last EU-Aid package , the economy and employment rates are not good. It's getting better, but demand won't be that high.

jasoncrh wrote:

What do you mean? United flies a nonstop seasonal service to Athens. Just as Delta does, and American will do next summer. It's American that's joining the party.

Blerg wrote:

What's surprising to me is that United isn't making the most of Aegean being a Star Alliance member. They have a growing domestic, regional and Middle Eastern network. United could offer connections to many destinations which could even help in turning EWR into a year-round destination.Yet in the end it's Delta and American, both having feed only one one end, that are thriving in Athens.

What?l?? US (now AA) has been flying to ATH since 2007 seasonally from PHL., next year they add service from ORD. PHL was a 762 when it started, after retirement of that type it was switched to a 333.

Loew wrote:

fightforlove wrote:

Any possibility of United adding an ORD-PRG service? CSA used to come to ORD, since then nothing.

Sorry but CSA never operated ORD. Only JFK, EWR, YYZ and YUL.

No, they also went to ORD, though it's been many years. Some of my ORD photography friends were recently posting some old pics of CSA planes at ORD.

Wonder what happened with the new Denver route they were suppose to announce ?