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L1011
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DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:39 am

On August 13th I flew on a Delta MD-90 from El Paso to Atlanta. The aircraft had just come in from Atlanta, and the cabin temperature upon boarding was very comfortable. As we were backing out of the gate, a flight attendant announced that we were to open our air vents all the way and to lower our window shades until we reached cruising altitude. I never heard of that before. I know that sometimes they ask us to do that as we deplane, but not during taxi-out and takeoff. Isn't that a safety issue? Many non-US airlines require window shades to be open during takeoffs and landings. Anyway, I missed my favorite part of being in a window seat as we took off in a completely dark cabin.

Bob Bradley
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litz
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:52 am

L1011 wrote:
On August 13th I flew on a Delta MD-90 from El Paso to Atlanta. The aircraft had just come in from Atlanta, and the cabin temperature upon boarding was very comfortable. As we were backing out of the gate, a flight attendant announced that we were to open our air vents all the way and to lower our window shades until we reached cruising altitude. I never heard of that before. I know that sometimes they ask us to do that as we deplane, but not during taxi-out and takeoff. Isn't that a safety issue? Many non-US airlines require window shades to be open during takeoffs and landings. Anyway, I missed my favorite part of being in a window seat as we took off in a completely dark cabin.

Bob Bradley


Maybe something was wrong with the AC, and considering the temperatures in El Paso this time of year, they were trying to conserve as much cold air as possible?
 
hz747300
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:56 am

It's similar at Cathay Pacific, they ask for the shades to be open for final check to landing, taxiing, take-off. After take-off to climb and cruise you can do you what you want, but they strongly encourage you to lower them so people can sleep easier.

On AA, LAX to PHX in summer, they asked us to close them before leaving.

Any chance you could have ignored the order?
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michman
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:01 am

Believe it or not, not all employee actions and requests reflect company-wide policy. So this was most likely not "DL" who was "ordering" you to do this, but rather a single employee who is either making up their own rules and perhaps misunderstood an actual company policy (such requesting pax close window shades upon landing to keep air temp cooler for next flight).
 
AirbusA322
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:05 am

In the last 2 weeks I have taken 10 Delta/Skywest/GoJet branded flights.

Every single flight on taxi to the gate ‘To better serve our next guests feel more comfortable we kindly ask you open your air vents and close your window shades’ or something to that wording. That’s on every flight, not one did not miss saying this.

This window shade down thing is something I’ve only seen in the USA. Every Virgin America flight I boarded the share were down. I was watching numerous aircraft at the terminal on taxi off, and quite clearly all the shades were shut which intrigued me (AA 320s).

In Australia it’s Seatback up, Table Up and window shade up. I like them up as I like looking out!
 
SXDFC
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:12 am

As a Flight Attendant it is encouraged to do this when we arrive into the more warmer climates. Being based out of LAS, it greatly helps cool the plane down. Even if the cabin temperature is comfortable, it can quickly change during a turn. No you don’t have to follow the rule, but it’s a big help if you do.
 
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chepos
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:13 am

Seems like this F/A decided to make up his/her own policy on the fly, which is common in this country. Request are made for air vents open and shades down upon deplaning to keep the plane cool. Never heard of this policy for takeoff (and I am based in PHX).
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cessna2
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:13 am

AirbusA322 wrote:
In the last 2 weeks I have taken 10 Delta/Skywest/GoJet branded flights.

Every single flight on taxi to the gate ‘To better serve our next guests feel more comfortable we kindly ask you open your air vents and close your window shades’ or something to that wording. That’s on every flight, not one did not miss saying this.

This window shade down thing is something I’ve only seen in the USA. Every Virgin America flight I boarded the share were down. I was watching numerous aircraft at the terminal on taxi off, and quite clearly all the shades were shut which intrigued me (AA 320s).

In Australia it’s Seatback up, Table Up and window shade up. I like them up as I like looking out!

You're hearing this announcement more because its officially in our announcement handbook right after our landing announcement is made. DL is very smart and has started an initiative to reduce APU use at the gate to reduce fuel costs. Having passengers lower their window shades and open the air vents helps keep the cabin cool with ground air versus running the APU. I hope this helps!
 
AirbusA322
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:15 am

I did notice all crew reading some device as talking.

Are these new announcements?

DL is very smart and has started an initiative to reduce APU use at the gate to reduce fuel costs. Having passengers lower their window shades and open the air vents helps keep the cabin cool with ground air versus running the APU. I hope this helps!

I’d love to see some stats or numbers around this one as that’s quite Interesting. Had no idea thanks!
 
Dominion301
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:25 am

chepos wrote:
Seems like this F/A decided to make up his/her own policy on the fly, which is common in this country. Request are made for air vents open and shades down upon deplaning to keep the plane cool. Never heard of this policy for takeoff (and I am based in PHX).


I had this once on takeoff on a CO 757 to CDG out of EWR. It was the most bizarre sensation, taking off with no outer visual reference. It was like being on a cargo plane. Also, this couldn’t have had anything to do with it being too hot as it was just before 2am and most shades were open when the aircraft was on the gate. The departure had been delayed hours due to thunderstorms.

In fact, I was never supposed to be on that flight....l was supposed to be on the nonstop to TXL, but the storms caused me to misconnect, even though I had a +3 hour connection. It was the trip from hell and the shades down on departure was the icing on the cake.
 
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jetjack74
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:33 am

My guess is that it was probably a new hire flight attendant who got the logic of the matter mixed up. As someone posted above, we “request” that passengers lower the window shade and open the air vents while th aircraft is sitting idle at the gate. And while it’s not company policy or an FAR, we’d actually prefer the window shades be open during taxi to departure so we can assess conditions if there’s an unanticipated need to evacuate.

AirbusA322 wrote:
I did notice all crew reading some device as talking!

Most likely reading from our company-issued PED or “phablet”.
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jagraham
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:00 am

cessna2 wrote:
AirbusA322 wrote:
In the last 2 weeks I have taken 10 Delta/Skywest/GoJet branded flights.

Every single flight on taxi to the gate ‘To better serve our next guests feel more comfortable we kindly ask you open your air vents and close your window shades’ or something to that wording. That’s on every flight, not one did not miss saying this.

This window shade down thing is something I’ve only seen in the USA. Every Virgin America flight I boarded the share were down. I was watching numerous aircraft at the terminal on taxi off, and quite clearly all the shades were shut which intrigued me (AA 320s).

In Australia it’s Seatback up, Table Up and window shade up. I like them up as I like looking out!

You're hearing this announcement more because its officially in our announcement handbook right after our landing announcement is made. DL is very smart and has started an initiative to reduce APU use at the gate to reduce fuel costs. Having passengers lower their window shades and open the air vents helps keep the cabin cool with ground air versus running the APU. I hope this helps!


Upon landing, yes. But for takeoff???
 
willyj
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:16 am

I think it should be policy in the US that shades have to be up for takeoff and Landing. Not just because I like the view, but because passengers should be aware of their surroundings if an issue arises. Takeoff and landing are two of the most critical moments of the flight, and everyone should be aware of their situation - or at least have the option to be.
 
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neomax
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:31 am

I have personally heard this announcement after landing in Dallas (and also in El Paso!) both on AA. But before takeoff? Never. Strange.
 
crownvic
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:05 am

cessna2 wrote:
AirbusA322 wrote:
In the last 2 weeks I have taken 10 Delta/Skywest/GoJet branded flights.

Every single flight on taxi to the gate ‘To better serve our next guests feel more comfortable we kindly ask you open your air vents and close your window shades’ or something to that wording. That’s on every flight, not one did not miss saying this.

This window shade down thing is something I’ve only seen in the USA. Every Virgin America flight I boarded the share were down. I was watching numerous aircraft at the terminal on taxi off, and quite clearly all the shades were shut which intrigued me (AA 320s).

In Australia it’s Seatback up, Table Up and window shade up. I like them up as I like looking out!

You're hearing this announcement more because its officially in our announcement handbook right after our landing announcement is made. DL is very smart and has started an initiative to reduce APU use at the gate to reduce fuel costs. Having passengers lower their window shades and open the air vents helps keep the cabin cool with ground air versus running the APU. I hope this helps!


Very Smart? really? It is the dumbest thing I am yet to see on a commercial flight and you are risking passenger safety to save your airline on fuel. Total BS, in my opinion, along with your 36" seat pitch in First Class. You have my guarantee, I will not comply for landing and take off. Leave it to a U.S. carrier (my home country) to come up with another asinine rule and take more fun away from flying.
 
YYZatcboy
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:19 am

crownvic wrote:
cessna2 wrote:
AirbusA322 wrote:
In the last 2 weeks I have taken 10 Delta/Skywest/GoJet branded flights.

Every single flight on taxi to the gate ‘To better serve our next guests feel more comfortable we kindly ask you open your air vents and close your window shades’ or something to that wording. That’s on every flight, not one did not miss saying this.

This window shade down thing is something I’ve only seen in the USA. Every Virgin America flight I boarded the share were down. I was watching numerous aircraft at the terminal on taxi off, and quite clearly all the shades were shut which intrigued me (AA 320s).

In Australia it’s Seatback up, Table Up and window shade up. I like them up as I like looking out!

You're hearing this announcement more because its officially in our announcement handbook right after our landing announcement is made. DL is very smart and has started an initiative to reduce APU use at the gate to reduce fuel costs. Having passengers lower their window shades and open the air vents helps keep the cabin cool with ground air versus running the APU. I hope this helps!


Very Smart? really? It is the dumbest thing I am yet to see on a commercial flight and you are risking passenger safety to save your airline on fuel. Total BS, in my opinion, along with your 36" seat pitch in First Class. You have my guarantee, I will not comply for landing and take off. Leave it to a U.S. carrier (my home country) to come up with another asinine rule and take more fun away from flying.


You seem not understand what is being said here. When deplaning(after landing), people will be asked to close shades. not for takeoff.
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ual763
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:36 am

Is it just me, or is every other post confused about whether or not we’re talking about takeoff or landing? All US Airlines ask people to close the shades after landing when deplaning. There is no comment on boardng and/or departure. However, this particular FA seems to have decided to make up her own rule and asked for them to be shut. That is the issue the OP is wondering about.
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wjcandee
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:25 am

It's a screwup by one FA, probably reading from the wrong section of the manual.

It is plainly NOT a new policy by DL that pax should keep the shades down for takeoff and landing. In fact, the opposite is the preference, but usually not requested.

It plainly IS a standard DL request now to put the shades down and open the gaspers around the time of gate arrival, so they can use cheaper-to-power, lower-maintenance dockside cooling systems rather than shipboard systems (i.e. the APU).

I could be wrong, but I think TWA asked for shades up for landing. Either them or SunJet or American International (the Jersey/PHL early-80s passenger one, not Connie's). Someone when I was flying in the 80s and 90s, and that was whom I flew primarily. I'm so programmed that way, I actually notice when I do not hear such a request announced.
 
CV880
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:56 am

Just for orientation purposes the shades should be up on takeoff & landing. Anything else is not safe. Shades can be lowered before deplaning or after takeoff. This seems to have gone off the deep end towards stupidity.
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:03 am

This whole thread is just a bunch of overreacting. It was clearly a simple misguided one-off suggestion by a FA concerned about the cabin temperature. Move along.
 
Denver772
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:50 am

YYZatcboy wrote:
crownvic wrote:
cessna2 wrote:
You're hearing this announcement more because its officially in our announcement handbook right after our landing announcement is made. DL is very smart and has started an initiative to reduce APU use at the gate to reduce fuel costs. Having passengers lower their window shades and open the air vents helps keep the cabin cool with ground air versus running the APU. I hope this helps!


Very Smart? really? It is the dumbest thing I am yet to see on a commercial flight and you are risking passenger safety to save your airline on fuel. Total BS, in my opinion, along with your 36" seat pitch in First Class. You have my guarantee, I will not comply for landing and take off. Leave it to a U.S. carrier (my home country) to come up with another asinine rule and take more fun away from flying.


You seem not understand what is being said here. When deplaning(after landing), people will be asked to close shades. not for takeoff.


Please read OP's post. We all understand that but that is not what is being discussed.
 
Noshow
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:07 am

Could a passenger refuse such a weird "order" or would he formally interfere with some crew order by doing so to possibly face legal trouble?
 
ChrisKen
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:13 am

Noshow wrote:
Could a passenger refuse such a weird "order" or would he formally interfere with some crew order by doing so to possibly face legal trouble?

Depends what Delta have in their Operating Plan (I'll hazard a guess it isn't shades down). The FAA don't specify either way regarding shades during critical phases of flight but will hold the airline to their operating plan.

I think you'd be able to politely refuse in this particular case.
Even if you are detained because someone overreacts, it wouldn't go any further. Would any airline take it further over a pax keeping their shade in the 'safe' position during critical phases of flight? I think not.
It may say 'must obey crew member all instructions' but the reality is 'You must obey all LAWFUL crew member instructions'.

Windows shades down after landing (for pax comfort) is a request. One I would oblige once the aircraft is on stand.
Window shades down during taxi out is a request, I would have obliged while the aircraft was on stand and raised the shade once moving after engine start.
Windows shades down during take-off, approach & landing is a nonsense (I seriously doubt Delta specify this). I would have kept the shade up during these phases, politely declining the request.
 
KLDC10
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:41 am

As others have noted, the opposite should be true: I.e. window shades should be open for takeoff and landing for precisely the same reasons the cabin lights are dimmed for takeoff during an evening departure - in order to ensure passengers are well-orientated and adjusted to their surroundings in the event of an emergency.

Although this probably was an isolated incident involving one FA, I would just point out that, from my experience, European Airlines are very strict about ensuring that window shades are open during takeoff and landing.

I also had the "please close your shades for the comfort of our next passengers" announcement on an AA 757 into Miami in the middle of August a few years back - makes sense, but completely different from the situation outlined by the OP.
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enilria
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:43 am

willyj wrote:
I think it should be policy in the US that shades have to be up for takeoff and Landing. Not just because I like the view, but because passengers should be aware of their surroundings if an issue arises. Takeoff and landing are two of the most critical moments of the flight, and everyone should be aware of their situation - or at least have the option to be.

I agree. Delta’s apparently policy constitutes a danger to passengers on takeoff and landing. The shades should be open during these phases.
 
Cory6188
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:37 pm

I've actually always thought it was a little strange that US airlines don't have any policy around window shades on arrival/departure (whether it's domestic or international), while other airlines are pretty strict about that. I've never had an F/A on DL say anything one way or another (or any US airline for that matter), about what you do with your window shades, except for seat 1A on CR7/CR9's.
 
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enilria
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:09 pm

Somebody should submit this to FAA. Any takers: https://hotline.faa.gov/
 
evank516
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:18 pm

I've never heard this during taxi and take off, only after landing have I been asked to lower my shades and open my air vent to keep the cabin cool for the next group of passengers. My window shade is up until engine shut down and then I lower it before deplaning.
 
reltney
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:48 pm

NEVER NEVER NEVER BEEN A “RULE”. It a request. Just that, a request and you do NOT have to do it. I keep my window shade open just until I leave the seat getting off the plane. Nothing is worse to be next to a fearful flier wh sits in the seat and slams the shade closed. I love asking aloud, “ ahhh, scared of flying I see”. If you don’t like Windows, middle and isle seats are available. Who in the F wants to fly in a dark tube...........
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Ryga
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:57 pm

SXDFC wrote:
As a Flight Attendant it is encouraged to do this when we arrive into the more warmer climates. Being based out of LAS, it greatly helps cool the plane down. Even if the cabin temperature is comfortable, it can quickly change during a turn. No you don’t have to follow the rule, but it’s a big help if you do.



Do your aircraft not have APUs? :lol:

“As a Flight Attendant”, OUR regulations state that window blinds must be open for taxi, take off, landing and also whilst you’re sat on the ground.
Everything is about safety, having them closed at crucial phases of the flight whether on the ground or in the air, limits your awareness of the environment around you.
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dabpit
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:04 pm

I have been on a few Delta and American flights were this same type of request has been made while taxiing or taking off. It is usually made if flying from a city with rather hot temps and/or if the aircraft AC isn't functioning properly.
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mtnwest1979
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:29 pm

One more reason to enjoy AS/QX Q400s, they are shadeless. :)
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evank516
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:40 pm

enilria wrote:
willyj wrote:
I think it should be policy in the US that shades have to be up for takeoff and Landing. Not just because I like the view, but because passengers should be aware of their surroundings if an issue arises. Takeoff and landing are two of the most critical moments of the flight, and everyone should be aware of their situation - or at least have the option to be.

I agree. Delta’s apparently policy constitutes a danger to passengers on takeoff and landing. The shades should be open during these phases.


I fly Delta all the time, and to rather hot climates (DAB, ATL, EYW, etc), I've never heard this. Only upon arrival (clear of the active runway) have I heard this request.
 
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enilria
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:42 pm

reltney wrote:
NEVER NEVER NEVER BEEN A “RULE”. It a request. Just that, a request and you do NOT have to do it. I keep my window shade open just until I leave the seat getting off the plane. Nothing is worse to be next to a fearful flier wh sits in the seat and slams the shade closed. I love asking aloud, “ ahhh, scared of flying I see”. If you don’t like Windows, middle and isle seats are available. Who in the F wants to fly in a dark tube...........

Even if it is a request. It's not safe to put passengers in a position where they cannot see a fire on takeoff/landing. If they anything they should be forced to be open.
 
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neomax
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:09 pm

mtnwest1979 wrote:
One more reason to enjoy AS/QX Q400s, they are shadeless. :)


Wow! Never knew that. Long live shadeless windows!
 
sgbroimp
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:16 pm

willyj wrote:
I think it should be policy in the US that shades have to be up for takeoff and Landing. Not just because I like the view, but because passengers should be aware of their surroundings if an issue arises. Takeoff and landing are two of the most critical moments of the flight, and everyone should be aware of their situation - or at least have the option to be.


Absolutely correct. On my favorite long haul airline (SIA), it is absolute mandate that shades be up for both take off and landing and it is a smart policy from a safety standpoint in my view.
 
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OA412
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:44 pm

enilria wrote:
willyj wrote:
I think it should be policy in the US that shades have to be up for takeoff and Landing. Not just because I like the view, but because passengers should be aware of their surroundings if an issue arises. Takeoff and landing are two of the most critical moments of the flight, and everyone should be aware of their situation - or at least have the option to be.

I agree. Delta’s apparently policy constitutes a danger to passengers on takeoff and landing. The shades should be open during these phases.

You seem to be misunderstanding. Numerous people have indicated there is no policy at DL requiring shades to be shut during takeoff or landing. This was a FA who was either confused or made up her own policy. Multiple posters have indicated that DL and other airlines ask that you shut the window shade after landing to help cool the aircraft, but the policy is window shades up for takeoff and landing.
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toobz
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:55 pm

Yeah this is a bit bizarre..DL FAs making announcements are not fresh from new hire class. Was there a misunderstanding on behalf of the OP maybe..
 
evank516
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:05 pm

toobz wrote:
Yeah this is a bit bizarre..DL FAs making announcements are not fresh from new hire class. Was there a misunderstanding on behalf of the OP maybe..


I'm tempted to think the latter may be possible.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:16 pm

The only time I've suffered motion sickness in my life was when all passengers around me had their window shades closed during landing. Finally broke down and asked my neighbor to open theirs, which solved it. :sour:
 
BravoOne
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:22 pm

FWIW, only a fool would put their window shares up during taxi, takeoff or landing, In the event of an evacuation,, for any reason you need to see what has transpired outside, quickly. Fire is obviously the worst senerio. but there are other things as well. I always chuckle at the stoopid pax that land with their shoes off. If they hade to evacuate from a broken up or burning aircraft I suspect they would become just another statistic and probably in my way as well. I do find it hard to believe that this is official DL policy as opposed to some dim witthed FA think they are doing the right thing.

I notice Delta frequently does not start the APU until 10 min prior to scheduled pushback. Guess what, when you stuff 160+ pax into a tube it warms up very quickly, but that does no seem to register with the flight deck crews. &%%#@
 
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:33 pm

BravoOne wrote:
FWIW, only a fool would put their window shares up during taxi, takeoff or landing, In the event of an evacuation,, for any reason you need to see what has transpired outside, quickly. Fire is obviously the worst senerio. but there are other things as well. I always chuckle at the stoopid pax that land with their shoes off. If they hade to evacuate from a broken up or burning aircraft I suspect they would become just another statistic and probably in my way as well. I do find it hard to believe that this is official DL policy as opposed to some dim witthed FA think they are doing the right thing.

I notice Delta frequently does not start the APU until 10 min prior to scheduled pushback. Guess what, when you stuff 160+ pax into a tube it warms up very quickly, but that does no seem to register with the flight deck crews. &%%#@


I thought it was an FAA requirement that all shades had to be up for taxi, takeoff and landing. Is that not correct?

Landing with your shoes off is not as stupid as the idiots that grab their large carry on luggage when evacuating a burning airplane. Me first, it's all about me......
 
N649DL
Posts: 1026
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:52 pm

Is El Paso a hot and high city?

I've noticed DL asked this a lot at ATL when deplaning.
 
evank516
Posts: 2194
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:53 pm

N649DL wrote:
Is El Paso a hot and high city?

I've noticed DL asked this a lot at ATL when deplaning.


ELP sits at 3,961.6 feet above sea level. And it's definitely hot there this time of year. I suppose that elevation can be considered high?
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:00 pm

Since some people having a hard time understanding this, I’ll try to explain. When you’re on an airplane your Flight Crew are primarily here for YOUR safety. While I won’t speak for all, I will speak for myself and that I will only enforce a rule if it’s a FAA and an airline specific requirement.

This thread is about the use of windowshades. My company has us “kindly ask” passengers to pull down their shades and open the vents. When I ask this, some do it, some don’t. It’s not so much of a big deal. If you don’t want to do it, you don’t have to.

We all are on this site because we share a passion and have knowledge in aviation. Many of us know what’s a regulation rule and what isn’t. Common sense and good judgment go a long ways in life.
 
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Jamake1
Posts: 1010
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:06 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:

I thought it was an FAA requirement that all shades had to be up for taxi, takeoff and landing. Is that not correct?


No, it’s not a FAR, but it should be. I flew for another airline prior to United and it was SOP at my previous carrier that window shades must be up for taxi, T/O, and landing. United has always allowed customer choice in the matter (except overwing exits). FWIW, this has been an issue at United as well...with flight attendants informing customers to lower window shades on all-nighters..BEFORE TAKEOFF!! If the aircraft were to have a runway excursion on takeoff, we would be severely restricted from assessing exterior conditions from the cabin. I finally became so fed up that I filed an OSAP report on the issue. OSAP is a self-reporting (non-punitive) system that involves the airline, the FAA, and NASA. The premise is to enhance air safety by monitoring for breaks in the chain of human factors. For its part, NASA trends these reports and helps to formulate recommendations. I recently received a formal letter from NASA informing me that my report had been accepted for further analysis on the matter. Personally, it is highly frustrating to me that this is not part of SOP at United.
Come fly the sun.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2900
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:17 pm

Jamake1 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I thought it was an FAA requirement that all shades had to be up for taxi, takeoff and landing. Is that not correct?
FWIW, this has been an issue at United as well...with flight attendants informing customers to lower window shades on all-nighters..BEFORE TAKEOFF!! If the aircraft were to have a runway excursion on takeoff, we would be severely restricted from assessing exterior conditions from the cabin. I finally became so fed up that I filed an OSAP report on the issue. OSAP is a self-reporting (non-punitive) system that involves the airline, the FAA, and NASA. The premise is to enhance air safety by monitoring for breaks in the chain of human factors. For its part, NASA trends these reports and helps to formulate recommendations. I recently received a formal letter from NASA informing me that my report had been accepted for further analysis on the matter. Personally, it is highly frustrating to me that this is not part of SOP at United.


It's definitely a pm-CO issue. Like I said above, 2am on a stormy night at EWR and it was "close your shades BEFORE takeoff", not an option and even more bizarrely all window pax complied (although given I was transiting a country where non-compliance with standard procedure, such as taking a knee during the anthem is apparently not allowed in a supposedly "free" country, this makes sense).

I was dumbfounded. :boggled:
 
DaveFly
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:35 pm

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:22 pm

Here’s a related issue I’ve often wondered about. If airlines are so concerned about cabin heat from outside air temps and full sunshine, why would an airline like Southwest paint their fleet dark blue? I’m sure the absorption of heat by the dark colors is hardly offset by putting down the shades. When USAirways had that dark color scheme, I used to wonder how they kept the plane cool at their hotter destinations.
717,727,737,747,757,767,777,787
L1011,DC8,DC9,DC10,MD80/90
A300,A319,320,321,330,340,
CRJ,E135/45/190,
DH8,Avro85,DHBeaver,AstarHelo,F100,ATR42
 
4engines4lnghll
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:25 am

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:44 pm

L1011 wrote:
On August 13th I flew on a Delta MD-90 from El Paso to Atlanta. The aircraft had just come in from Atlanta, and the cabin temperature upon boarding was very comfortable. As we were backing out of the gate, a flight attendant announced that we were to open our air vents all the way and to lower our window shades until we reached cruising altitude. I never heard of that before. I know that sometimes they ask us to do that as we deplane, but not during taxi-out and takeoff. Isn't that a safety issue? Many non-US airlines require window shades to be open during takeoffs and landings. Anyway, I missed my favorite part of being in a window seat as we took off in a completely dark cabin.
Bob Bradley

Lol there’s nothing with safety here. It simply to keep the plane cool during the summer. We mainly ask this upon landing because we have been cruising and the plane has had a chance to cool down. Keeping the window shades and vents open allows it to stay that way. Or as close as you can keep it that way.
4engines4lnghll
 
Caspian27
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:48 am

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:50 pm

BravoOne wrote:
FWIW, only a fool would put their window shares up during taxi, takeoff or landing, In the event of an evacuation,, for any reason you need to see what has transpired outside, quickly. Fire is obviously the worst senerio. but there are other things as well. I always chuckle at the stoopid pax that land with their shoes off. If they hade to evacuate from a broken up or burning aircraft I suspect they would become just another statistic and probably in my way as well. I do find it hard to believe that this is official DL policy as opposed to some dim witthed FA think they are doing the right thing.

I notice Delta frequently does not start the APU until 10 min prior to scheduled pushback. Guess what, when you stuff 160+ pax into a tube it warms up very quickly, but that does no seem to register with the flight deck crews. &%%#@


Not a Delta employee, but all flight deck crewmembers, AKA “pilots” need the FAs to tell them that the temperature is heating up in the back because we can’t tell up there. I’ve personally made it a habit of asking the lead what the temperature feels like and if it’s warm starting the APU for cooling purposes accordingly.
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...

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