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BravoOne
Posts: 4094
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:01 pm

SXDFC wrote:
Since some people having a hard time understanding this, I’ll try to explain. When you’re on an airplane your Flight Crew are primarily here for YOUR safety. While I won’t speak for all, I will speak for myself and that I will only enforce a rule if it’s a FAA and an airline specific requirement.

This thread is about the use of windowshades. My company has us “kindly ask” passengers to pull down their shades and open the vents. When I ask this, some do it, some don’t. It’s not so much of a big deal. If you don’t want to do it, you don’t have to.

We all are on this site because we share a passion and have knowledge in aviation. Many of us know what’s a regulation rule and what isn’t. Common sense and good judgment go a long ways in life.



Get over it. This is not an FAA mandate nor is it a Delta mandate/policy, but rather some individuals mandate that they have no power to enforce. I travel Dl twice a week on DL and the shades down is not a constant edict. I can agree with the shades down once parked at the gate, prior to that it;s hazardous request. I would like see any Ops Bulletins, that DL has published that make this a mandatory practice as opposed to a suggestion.
 
SXDFC
Posts: 2066
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:12 pm

BravoOne wrote:
SXDFC wrote:
Since some people having a hard time understanding this, I’ll try to explain. When you’re on an airplane your Flight Crew are primarily here for YOUR safety. While I won’t speak for all, I will speak for myself and that I will only enforce a rule if it’s a FAA and an airline specific requirement.

This thread is about the use of windowshades. My company has us “kindly ask” passengers to pull down their shades and open the vents. When I ask this, some do it, some don’t. It’s not so much of a big deal. If you don’t want to do it, you don’t have to.

We all are on this site because we share a passion and have knowledge in aviation. Many of us know what’s a regulation rule and what isn’t. Common sense and good judgment go a long ways in life.



Get over it. This is not an FAA mandate nor is it a Delta mandate/policy, but rather some individuals mandate that they have no power to enforce. I travel Dl twice a week on DL and the shades down is not a constant edict. I can agree with the shades down once parked at the gate, prior to that it;s hazardous request. I would like see any Ops Bulletins, that DL has published that make this a mandatory practice as opposed to a suggestion.


I fly multiple legs, 6 days a week.. Continue to act like you know what you’re talking about.
 
cessna2
Posts: 400
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:17 pm

The only time i've known it to be required for window shades to be up for taxi, takeoff, and landing is on smaller regional jets with no viewing windows on the doors. For example on the CRJ's. The FA in the front would use 1A and 1D's window to asses conditions outside the airplane and determine useable exits. Mainline carriers do not have this issue. (The one exception is the upper deck of the 747.) We are required to have our viewing windows open at all times while taxiing and during takeoff/landing. Therefore it isn't necessary for passengers to have theirs open as we wouldn't need to go into the cabin to asses conditions. I do personally believe however that those in the exit rows should be required to keep them open for taxi, takeoff, and landing because they have volunteered to help in the event of an evacuation.

Back on topic. I, myself as a FA, have heard other FAs or even pilots for that matter, ask passengers to lower their window shades during our taxi for takeoff. Most of the time its due to an INOP APU, and the engines aren't providing a sufficient amount of cool air. Couple that in with hot summer weather and a 30 minute departure delay due to flow control and you can imagine it gets pretty toasty in a metal tube. I would never willfully compromise the safety of my passengers and crew. We take that very seriously at DL. Having window shades open or closed doesn't compromise safety. Sometimes regardless of what's transpiring outside an aircraft, it's safer to remain onboard.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 4094
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:29 pm

SXDFC wrote:
BravoOne wrote:
SXDFC wrote:
Since some people having a hard time understanding this, I’ll try to explain. When you’re on an airplane your Flight Crew are primarily here for YOUR safety. While I won’t speak for all, I will speak for myself and that I will only enforce a rule if it’s a FAA and an airline specific requirement.

This thread is about the use of windowshades. My company has us “kindly ask” passengers to pull down their shades and open the vents. When I ask this, some do it, some don’t. It’s not so much of a big deal. If you don’t want to do it, you don’t have to.

We all are on this site because we share a passion and have knowledge in aviation. Many of us know what’s a regulation rule and what isn’t. Common sense and good judgment go a long ways in life.



Get over it. This is not an FAA mandate nor is it a Delta mandate/policy, but rather some individuals mandate that they have no power to enforce. I travel Dl twice a week on DL and the shades down is not a constant edict. I can agree with the shades down once parked at the gate, prior to that it;s hazardous request. I would like see any Ops Bulletins, that DL has published that make this a mandatory practice as opposed to a suggestion.


I fly multiple legs, 6 days a week.. Continue to act like you know what you’re talking about.


I appreciate and admire good flight crews. I ask again, please show me a direct quote from Delta In Flight that mandates compliance with this request. I suspect this is akin to the FA' saying :we have been cleared to land" when descending through FL240. Just another clueless statement perpetuated by a few. For every time some one makes this shades down request there is someone who does not do it. Should I suspect they are derelect in their duties? I hear SWA make the same request but no as frequently so what should i think about them.
 
jeffh747
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:56 pm

AirbusA322 wrote:
Every Virgin America flight I boarded the share were down.

I’m almost 99.5% certain that the reason for the window shades being down during boarding of your Virgin America flights is to maximize the effect of their famous moodlighting. I never boarded a single VX flight that had shades open until pax were seated. I myself enjoy sitting in the window seat, but wouldn’t open the shade until pushback, so as to enjoy the moodlighting. I was never on a VX flight either where their crew ordered shades down (for cabin cooling), so I have to assume it was for their moodlighting.
ATR-72-600, A318 A319 A320 A320neo A321 A321neo A332 A333 B717 B727 B734 B73G B738 B739 B752 B762 B763 B772 B788 CRJ2 DHC6 DHC8-300 E145 E190 MD82 MD83 MD90 SF340B
 
N649DL
Posts: 1014
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:04 pm

evank516 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Is El Paso a hot and high city?

I've noticed DL asked this a lot at ATL when deplaning.


ELP sits at 3,961.6 feet above sea level. And it's definitely hot there this time of year. I suppose that elevation can be considered high?


Higher than I thought! DEN is over 5K and SLC is 4K and both are considered "hot and high".
 
Elementalism
Posts: 611
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:44 pm

BravoOne wrote:
FWIW, only a fool would put their window shares up during taxi, takeoff or landing, In the event of an evacuation,, for any reason you need to see what has transpired outside, quickly. Fire is obviously the worst senerio. but there are other things as well. I always chuckle at the stoopid pax that land with their shoes off. If they hade to evacuate from a broken up or burning aircraft I suspect they would become just another statistic and probably in my way as well. I do find it hard to believe that this is official DL policy as opposed to some dim witthed FA think they are doing the right thing.

I notice Delta frequently does not start the APU until 10 min prior to scheduled pushback. Guess what, when you stuff 160+ pax into a tube it warms up very quickly, but that does no seem to register with the flight deck crews. &%%#@


That is not the worst situation. I have been flying delta to PHX all summer long. Hot as eff. And I put my shade down once on the ground due to the heat.

But last Winter flew out of Midway on DL and they had the heat turned up to 11. It was hotter than Cancun in the summer back there. Nex flight on Delta to MKE, same effing situation. Who is coming up with the idea to run the heat so high?
 
winglet13
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:17 am

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:42 pm

I've been on many Delta flights, and have heard this request several times during the summer after arriving at a hot weather airport. I've heard it a few times (to keep the shades down) prior to taxiing from the gate. I've never heard it in the situation of leaving them down until after takeoff.
 
Cactusjuba
Posts: 255
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:06 am

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:41 am

1 singular FA on 1 singular flight, was overly proactive about keeping the plane cool for taxi in. We are then flooded with lovely and fantastic extreme extrapolations. We poor passengers are placed in the juxataposed canundrum of being in legal trouble for disobeying this clear "mandatory" crew instruction or risk the horrors of being unable to detect passively an engine fire and foreplan which side to self-initiate an evacuation. Dangerous game indeed. Glad everyone is safe. I'm sure the NTSB is investing. Thanks for writing the FAA/Congress on this systemic practice.

Clearly a slow news day.
 
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enilria
Posts: 10376
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:53 pm

OA412 wrote:
enilria wrote:
willyj wrote:
I think it should be policy in the US that shades have to be up for takeoff and Landing. Not just because I like the view, but because passengers should be aware of their surroundings if an issue arises. Takeoff and landing are two of the most critical moments of the flight, and everyone should be aware of their situation - or at least have the option to be.

I agree. Delta’s apparently policy constitutes a danger to passengers on takeoff and landing. The shades should be open during these phases.

You seem to be misunderstanding. Numerous people have indicated there is no policy at DL requiring shades to be shut during takeoff or landing. This was a FA who was either confused or made up her own policy. Multiple posters have indicated that DL and other airlines ask that you shut the window shade after landing to help cool the aircraft, but the policy is window shades up for takeoff and landing.

It doesn't matter. The FA is an employee of Delta telling passengers they must do that. Whether it is company policy or not Delta is responsible for inaccurate safety instructions given to their passengers. A first hand witness should report this to FAA.
 
GBNorman
Posts: 7
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:01 pm

This topic reminds me of a September '17 flight; all I can say is GRRRRR!

Flying ORD to LGA; United First on an A-320, I was seated in 3B. Leaving ORD at about 2P, all the shades in both cabins were drawn - and the guy in 3A was already asleep.

The weather was going to make for some great flightseeing. I was getting sick as we taxied - probably more annoyed at losing my flightseeing....I had to watch how much "Grape Juice" was poured as I had to rent a car at LGA - what a hellhole for that.

Well, here we were descended to FL 40 and clearly on approach. Now the guy wakes up - and not only raises the shade but offers to change seats (no Attendant commanding us to stay seated - I'm sure back in Coach that would have been quick to be the case).

So I got to flightsee the approach first of Lady Liberty, then along Manhattan on a perfect day, rounding up over the ballpark to get on final for RWY 31, and landing. At least it ended well.

Now for the irony; the guy says "you should have wakened me up; been happy to changed". "So what, I can sleep anywhere even with the shade up".

O'Henry's "The Gift Of The Magi" if there was.
 
Iloveboeing
Posts: 470
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:29 pm

I think that window seats should be reserved for aviation enthusiasts. Secondly, I think that airlines should remove the window shades (like Michael O'Leary at FR once suggested) so all aviation enthusiasts can enjoy the flight.

Back in 2005, I was flying UA ORD-HKG and 1/4 of the way through the flight, a flight attendant asked me to close my window shade and I was quite upset. In 2007, I was flying UA PEK-ORD and it was well over 100 degrees outisde and I opened the window shade so I could see out. A snotty flight attendant reached over me and practically slammed the window shade shut in my face, saying, "could you keep your window shade closed?" I was extremely irritated, but I didn't want to fuss and get into trouble, so I let it go.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1713
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:30 pm

GBNorman wrote:
This topic reminds me of a September '17 flight; all I can say is GRRRRR!

Flying ORD to LGA; United First on an A-320, I was seated in 3B. Leaving ORD at about 2P, all the shades in both cabins were drawn - and the guy in 3A was already asleep.

The weather was going to make for some great flightseeing. I was getting sick as we taxied - probably more annoyed at losing my flightseeing....I had to watch how much "Grape Juice" was poured as I had to rent a car at LGA - what a hellhole for that.

Well, here we were descended to FL 40 and clearly on approach. Now the guy wakes up - and not only raises the shade but offers to change seats (no Attendant commanding us to stay seated - I'm sure back in Coach that would have been quick to be the case).

So I got to flightsee the approach first of Lady Liberty, then along Manhattan on a perfect day, rounding up over the ballpark to get on final for RWY 31, and landing. At least it ended well.

Now for the irony; the guy says "you should have wakened me up; been happy to changed". "So what, I can sleep anywhere even with the shade up".

O'Henry's "The Gift Of The Magi" if there was.


How is this relevant to FA’s mandating window shades be closed for taxi and takeoff?
 
GBNorman
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Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:42 pm

First Attendant on that flight knew an Attendant I know, so absent a blatant violation (the changing of seats while on Approach to LGA could have been), nothing was said.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4432
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:43 pm

I've only experienced shades down while boarding in the US. Pretty horrible feeling. We were boarding a Delta CRJ900 in SLC and it felt like stepping into a bunker. Pretty horrible feeling especially since it made the plane feel even smaller.

I lived in the Middle East for many years and no airline there does that. Could it be that the airline doesn't save as much by closing them after landing?
 
IPFreely
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:23 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
I think that window seats should be reserved for aviation enthusiasts.


Don't have a dog in this fight but watching such a rule get created and enforced would be fun for all.

Iloveboeing wrote:
Secondly, I think that airlines should remove the window shades (like Michael O'Leary at FR once suggested) so all aviation enthusiasts can enjoy the flight.


Don't you love Boeing? They've already done this on the 787.
 
twinotter
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:33 pm

GBNorman wrote:
Well, here we were descended to FL 40 and clearly on approach.


At the risk of being pedantic (although this is an aviation-enthusiast site), there is no such thing as "FL40" in the United States. Flight Level indicates an altitude calculated using a standard pressure. The transition altitude, where the aircraft's altimeter is adjusted to a standard pressure, is 18,000 feet (again, in the U.S.). At lower altitudes, the altimeter is set to account for the actual local barometric pressure and altitude referred to in feet ("4,000 feet").
 
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Acey559
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:38 pm

mtnwest1979 wrote:
One more reason to enjoy AS/QX Q400s, they are shadeless. :)


Almost. :) The NGs from 440QX (Oregon State University airplane) and up all have shades, but I do agree that it’s nice because it bugs me when I don’t get a window and the person over there shuts the shade as soon as they sit down and never open it. Unless, that is, it’s an early morning flight on QX and the sun is in your face and there’s no shade to lower. :D
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
GBNorman
Posts: 7
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:59 pm

twinotter wrote:
Flight Level indicates an altitude calculated using a standard pressure. The transition altitude, where the aircraft's altimeter is adjusted to a standard pressure, is 18,000 feet (again, in the U.S.). At lower altitudes, the altimeter is set to account for the actual local barometric pressure and altitude referred to in feet ("4,000 feet").


Thanks for clarifying that point; so when in the instance I noted, the aircraft was at 4000 feet approaching LGA it is simply noted as that. When the aircraft is cruising at, say, 35000ft, then that is noted as FL350.

Oh I note your handle with memories. I flew on my share of DH Twin Otters when in the AF and serving in the Nam. I'm also reminded of flying BOS-ACK on a Cape Air Cessna and a gal next to me was "apprehensive". I said to her "I've flown on DeHaviland Twin Otters in this life, and to which the pilot said to me alone "Hey, that's a big plane".

The flight was without incident.
 
77H
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:34 am

Cory6188 wrote:
I've actually always thought it was a little strange that US airlines don't have any policy around window shades on arrival/departure (whether it's domestic or international), while other airlines are pretty strict about that. I've never had an F/A on DL say anything one way or another (or any US airline for that matter), about what you do with your window shades, except for seat 1A on CR7/CR9's.


HA is a US airline that is very strict about window shades being up for take off and landing. Its part of their walk through items. I’ve been woken up in order to put my shade up on a HA flight before.

77H
 
77H
Posts: 1571
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Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:42 am

I do find it interesting how many people jump to the defense of DL and are so keen on separating the actions of this purser (I’ll assume it was the purser as they usually make announcements) from the company though the same leeway isn’t provided for other airlines. If the airline in question would have been a select few airlines Swift hellfire would have rained down on that thread.

77H
 
N649DL
Posts: 1014
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:49 am

Dominion301 wrote:
chepos wrote:
Seems like this F/A decided to make up his/her own policy on the fly, which is common in this country. Request are made for air vents open and shades down upon deplaning to keep the plane cool. Never heard of this policy for takeoff (and I am based in PHX).


I had this once on takeoff on a CO 757 to CDG out of EWR. It was the most bizarre sensation, taking off with no outer visual reference. It was like being on a cargo plane. Also, this couldn’t have had anything to do with it being too hot as it was just before 2am and most shades were open when the aircraft was on the gate. The departure had been delayed hours due to thunderstorms.

In fact, I was never supposed to be on that flight....l was supposed to be on the nonstop to TXL, but the storms caused me to misconnect, even though I had a +3 hour connection. It was the trip from hell and the shades down on departure was the icing on the cake.


Indeed. Last year flying DL on HNL-LAX I got upgraded to C+ to a non window seat and everyone in the middle section of the 763 had the shades down. I asked if the people next to me could keep it up a little and she just points to the PTV screen. Of course I had no choice in getting a C+ window seat as the entire plane was booked.
 
nikeherc
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:40 pm

Re: DL Orders Shades Down for Taxi and Takeoff

Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:18 am

This is not as simple as it might seem. While sitting on the ground, closing the shades on the sunny side of the plane and opening all the vents may be the only way to keep the plane from turning in to a sweat lodge.

However, I like to sit in a window seat and look outside when I fly. The problem is that at altitude on a sunny day you may have no problem with your window, but the solar angle can cause blinding light in the row behind or in front of you. I have had the experience of being blinded by light coming from the window one or two rows ahead. Common sense and courtesy can solve a lot of problems.
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