Good morning folks and welcome to our latest thread. August was a pretty good month for developments and we had several, mostly positive:

- Profits up at EI and IAG (but down at Vueling); Norwegian, well, let's just say that they don't just use red paint for their aircraft ...
- Luxair to brings jets to DUB-LUX service
- Aer Lingus to announce two new US routes (latest info is that these announcements will be delayed until IAG investors' day in November)
- American drops DUB-JFK, but announces seasonal DFW - Dublin's first 789 route
- AA expecting regulatory approval for EI JV in Q1 2019
- SIA in discussions for DUB route, but not in near future - may have to wait until new runway open
- Lots of complaints about EI customer service (particularly complaints handling)
- More complaints from EI about DUB infrastructure; also criticism of DAA setting pax targets that are too easily achieved
- EI increases DUB-ORK
- Aeroflot announces DUB; new service will be on A320s - a bit of a jump from the Tu-134s previously used!
- DUB opens new connection facility
- EI and FR to announce new interline facility from early 2019
- FR to charge non-priority pax for cabin bags
- Papal visit: AZ A320 from Rome, EI A321 back
- EI and WX join forces for new LCY operation; two 146s initially

Enjoy the new thread, and here's a link to the last one: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1400349

Dub -ORK ???

kaitak wrote:

- Aer Lingus to announce two new US routes (latest info is that these announcements will be delayed until IAG investors' day in November)

Where has this come from? IAG investor days rarely come with individual group airline announcements. Aer Lingus in particular like to hold their own press conference for new routes, inviting Irish media, local businesses and tourism execs.

I would have thought the first two weeks of September looked likely.

Galwayman wrote:

Dub -ORK ???

Strange indeed! The OP must mean an existing service from ORK.

shamrock350 wrote:

kaitak wrote:

- Aer Lingus to announce two new US routes (latest info is that these announcements will be delayed until IAG investors' day in November)

Where has this come from? IAG investor days rarely come with individual group airline announcements. Aer Lingus in particular like to hold their own press conference for new routes, inviting Irish media, local businesses and tourism execs.

I would have thought the first two weeks of September looked likely.

It’d be bad marketing practice to announce a new route at an investor day. I’m sure EI will do it soon, long before the IAG event in early November.

klm617 wrote:

Is it actually 2 North American routes or 2 US routes. That being said if it's the latter does that mean one of them won't be YUL ?

The Irish Times article where all this originated from specifies North American destinations.

The quote was;

“We hope to make an announcement in the next two to three weeks as to the location of those two new destinations,” Mr Kavanagh said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... 2?mode=amp

Sorry, I meant to say "EI increase ORK-AMS"

Also, I should probably have written "two North American routes" rather than "two US routes".

Apologies!

Minneapolis and Montreal are the two that seem most likely going by the rumour mill, not especially exciting considering AC already serve Montreal and I wouldn't have thought Minneapolis would be a big O&D market. Good to see further expansion nonetheless.

Could well be two separate announcements like last year, would think Oct/Nov is more likely than Sep.

It is possible plans have changed.

klm617 wrote:

I am thinking Detroit has to be one of them. Good O/D market to DUB not to mention the additional onward connections from DUB to central Europe plus DTW is offering and incentive package as good or better than most perspective A321 markets. Plus DTW is the largest city with no IAG carrier service. I guessing BWI as the other addition.

I would be utterly surprised if Minneapolis gets added over Detroit. MSP doesn't have a great incentive program, DTW puts up the better numbers in terms of travel to Europe, and if EI has taken notes from WW's service at DTW they have been selling out WOW premium to the point where you can no longer book it. Similar sized plane on a larger market with great opportunities to connect DTW with MAN, BCN, and other important Western Euro markets. Not only that, but Anna.Aero basically called out the airlines for not serving this market. It's also of note, that the DUB and BCN markets nearly doubled from 2016 to 2017 similarly to KEF.

Has anyone heard whats happening with the new runway? Construction was supposed to start in the coming months but there hasn't been any news or updates in ages (last update on the airport website was last November when the road realignments were completed) and still no sign of the d&b tender being released which I think was supposed to happen around May or June

flymco753 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

I am thinking Detroit has to be one of them. Good O/D market to DUB not to mention the additional onward connections from DUB to central Europe plus DTW is offering and incentive package as good or better than most perspective A321 markets. Plus DTW is the largest city with no IAG carrier service. I guessing BWI as the other addition.

I would be utterly surprised if Minneapolis gets added over Detroit. MSP doesn't have a great incentive program, DTW puts up the better numbers in terms of travel to Europe, and if EI has taken notes from WW's service at DTW they have been selling out WOW premium to the point where you can no longer book it. Similar sized plane on a larger market with great opportunities to connect DTW with MAN, BCN, and other important Western Euro markets. Not only that, but Anna.Aero basically called out the airlines for not serving this market. It's also of note, that the DUB and BCN markets nearly doubled from 2016 to 2017 similarly to KEF.

Imo an airport shouldn’t need financial incentives to lure air service. That tends to not work out. If you have a market for whatever that alone should be enough to attract new service.

And in today's world pigs fly too,! Incentives assist airlines with start up costs and might even assist operationally for 12 to 18 months
But there is no value to an airline flogging a dead horse!!!!

A former Ryanair 737 (EI-CTB) has suffered what looks like a serious runway excursion at Sochi, Krasnodar, Russia. The aircraft was inbound from Moscow.

Aircraft served with Atlant Soyuz before joining UT Air.

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... n/lLaLcyJL

High Court challenge brought over halting site for Travellers displaced by new Dublin Airport runway
An environmental and planning company claims the site does not comply with Fingal County Council’s development plan.

A HIGH COURT challenge has been brought against a decision to grant planning permission for a Traveller halting site in north Dublin.

The proposed seven-caravan bay development at Coolquay, Co Dublin will provide accommodation for Travellers who will be moved from a halting site at Collinstown Park, where land is required to build a second runway at Dublin Airport.

www.thejournal.ie/dublin-airport-second ... 4-Sep2018/

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New Shannon Airport Restaurant Completes Final Phase Of €2.1m Investment

A new restaurant has opened at Shannon Airport, completing the final phase of a €2.1 million investment in the airport's food and beverage facilities.

The newly-opened JJ Ruddle’s restaurant, which is located in the airport's arrivals hall, features with three menu options – breakfast, lunch and dinner – and is open from 5am to 11pm daily.

www.hospitalityireland.com/new-shannon- ... ment/64341

Stobart Air to open up E190 (probably E195) base at Dublin Airport - interesting times ahead.

http://www.stobartair.com/jobs/rated-an ... blin-base/

Well they do have to do something with the E195s. Might be a bit late for EI flying for the winter schedule though!
It is a shame that WX and Stobart did not merge

Oh I'd say that it'll be with the spring schedule in mind as the affected SEN routes don't appear to end until January 2019 which should leave the E195's some time to receive some TLC (which they're sorely in need of) and paint in time for late March/early April 2019. I'm curious as to why RE mentioned E190 - maybe the E195's from the SEN operation are not the only aircraft for this DUB operation? I could be reading more into it than is there or getting ahead of myself, but nonetheless this will open up new opportunities for EI.

The E195 aircraft that Stobart have been operating are apparently complete nightmares from a reliability point of view. The aircraft have quite the reputation down in Southend and I don't think anyone there will miss them.

So far we know that out of the three E195's operated by Stobart, two of them will be relocated and the third will continue on the SEN/DUB route until March. It's safe to assume they'll all end up in DUB at some point but they can't operate as part of the Aer Lingus Regional franchise deal because of union agreements. The terms of the Aer Lingus Regional franchise would either have to be amended and put to unions or a new deal would be required like we've seen with CityJet so they can fly alongside Aer Lingus Mainline.

@shamrock350 I am led to believe that G-FBEL, G-FBEM and G-FBEN are the aircraft being sold to Stobart, with the endlessly troublesome G-FBEF going back to BE. Having flown G-FBEF on DUB-SEN a few times, it made a few weird noises which made me wish I was wearing brown trousers! I recall someone mentioning that the precedent had been set with the 757's and that it might be a case of EI cabin crew on the planes with RE pilots and other associated labour. I should imagine the cabin crew is the main issue, anyhow, not being too intimately knowledgeable about EI's operation in this regard.

shamrock350 wrote:

The E195 aircraft that Stobart have been operating are apparently complete nightmares from a reliability point of view. The aircraft have quite the reputation down in Southend and I don't think anyone there will miss them.

So far we know that out of the three E195's operated by Stobart, two of them will be relocated and the third will continue on the SEN/DUB route until March. It's safe to assume they'll all end up in DUB at some point but they can't operate as part of the Aer Lingus Regional franchise deal because of union agreements. The terms of the Aer Lingus Regional franchise would either have to be amended and put to unions or a new deal would be required like we've seen with CityJet so they can fly alongside Aer Lingus Mainline.

I think they will end up on DUB-GLA/EDI, Aer Lingus themselves wanted to resume EDI in October but couldn't (contract reasons) and expect union agreements will approve changes particularly if its only for existing EIR routes.

EI111 SNN-JFK was cancelled this morning as one of the Dublin 757s went tech. EI-LBR, which was supposed to fly EI111, repositioned to DUB to fly EI131. Not good for EI SNN PR

Time for Kerry Airport to learn to fly alone?

As Kerry Airport enters its 50th year in operation is it time for it to stand on its own two feet?

Recently filed accounts for the airport paint a familiar picture, in which its profit would quickly turn to red if Government funds were deducted. Of course, this isn’t a new phenomenon; costs associated with running an airport – even a small one – are high.

But Kerry Airport stands out as a peculiar example of the Republic’s sub-standard ability to plan good transport solutions for its citizens.


www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-a ... -1.3614329

Poorly written contract if EI cannot uogage a given route flown by EIR
I am always amused when it requires union approval to operate a service or an alteration to a service

eirflot wrote:

Poorly written contract if EI cannot uogage a given route flown by EIR
I am always amused when it requires union approval to operate a service or an alteration to a service

It's a bit more complicated than that, almost all franchise deals in aviation have limitations on aircraft capacity, size or jet/prop operations. A franchise is basically subcontracting work, in this case Aer Lingus handed their entire Scottish market to Aer Arann which essentially replaced Aer Lingus mainline crews with a cheaper alternative. We know this wasn't the main factor in creating the franchise but it was an inevitable product which needed to be addressed by unions in order protect the conditions and viability of mainline jobs.

Aer Lingus Regional being limited to under 100 seaters keeps the Stobart crews a comfortable distance from the mainline operation so neither are competing for the same business, Regional has a clear market and role to play for Aer Lingus so the lines aren't blurred. The two can operate on the same route but Regional appears to provide additional frequency and capacity as part of their overall mission which would have been agreed prior to launch.

So does that mean that if Stobart operated 195s to GLA/EDI (or anywhere else), they could be restricted to 100 seats?

Thank you
I understand the concept and operation. I also understand the seat limitations

EIR provided aircraft with less seats so easier to fill - fine! EIR provided extra rotations - fine! EIR probably were more cost effective and certainly oire flexible - fine! But it seems that on some flights bigger aircraft are now required and it seems that currently EI have to loan aircraft and crews to EIR to provide the services - interesting! So there was no growth written into the arrangements?
It would seem that Stoobart provide a more complicated service to EI than ever publicised!

shamrock350 wrote:

eirflot wrote:

Poorly written contract if EI cannot uogage a given route flown by EIR
I am always amused when it requires union approval to operate a service or an alteration to a service

It's a bit more complicated than that, almost all franchise deals in aviation have limitations on aircraft capacity, size or jet/prop operations. A franchise is basically subcontracting work, in this case Aer Lingus handed their entire Scottish market to Aer Arann which essentially replaced Aer Lingus mainline crews with a cheaper alternative. We know this wasn't the main factor in creating the franchise but it was an inevitable product which needed to be addressed by unions in order protect the conditions and viability of mainline jobs.

Aer Lingus Regional being limited to under 100 seaters keeps the Stobart crews a comfortable distance from the mainline operation so neither are competing for the same business, Regional has a clear market and role to play for Aer Lingus so the lines aren't blurred. The two can operate on the same route but Regional appears to provide additional frequency and capacity as part of their overall mission which would have been agreed prior to launch.

The only routes they both operate are MAN/BHX they were added much later. My understanding (and former CEO of RE) stated they have exclusive operations on Scottish routes so Aer Lingus cannot return mainline unless both can agree. Interestingly Aer Lingus mainline have even scaled back Nat West flights over the last while to Scotland for Rugby. EIR add all extra capacity before EI may add a return flight.

kaitak wrote:

So does that mean that if Stobart operated 195s to GLA/EDI (or anywhere else), they could be restricted to 100 seats?

Nobody knows yet but if the limit is 100 they will need to agree it with unions to avoid potential industrial unrest. Unless they allow EI to return A320 then EJs are heading for Scotland IMO.

AmricanShamrok wrote:

Does RE set their own schedules when operating Aer Lingus Regional services? Or does EI dictate the timings?

Would expect both work together. Over the first few years of the contract RE applied for slots, now all slots are requested by Aer Lingus themselves (since T2 move for EIR I think).

AmricanShamrok wrote:

Does RE set their own schedules when operating Aer Lingus Regional services? Or does EI dictate the timings?

Its mostly EI that dictate the timings. As one would expect they are providing a service to suit EI and of course the timings must match their onward connections out of DUB TATL and of course at the same time cater to the point to point business and leisure traffic.

Aer Lingus criticised for cancelling Shannon flights again

A Fianna Fáil TD has said it could be time for Shannon Airport to penalise Aer Lingus for cancelling flights after the airline failed to operate its Shannon to New York service for the third time in a month.

Aer Lingus cancelled their EI-111 Shannon to New York services, as well as the EI-110 return legs, twice in August and again on Saturday.

In two cases, the services were cancelled so the aircraft could be redeployed to Dublin to operate services from there.

http://clareherald.com/2018/09/aer-ling ... ain-75757/

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Ryanair accuses UK's air traffic control provider Nats of discrimination

Ryanair has accused the UK’s air traffic control (ATC) provider Nats of discriminating against it and other London Stansted airlines.

The budget carrier claimed 52% of all ATC delays in the London area “caused by Nats” during the first three months of the year affected flights at Stansted, which is its largest base.

This is compared with zero at Heathrow and 10% at Gatwick.

www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/worl ... 66503.html

—-

Ryanair passenger numbers up in August despite strikes

Ryanair said it flew 9% more passengers in August than a year ago, with its purchase of Austrian carrier Laudamotion helping offset the impact of strikes and staff shortages.

The airline said it flew a total of 13.8 million passengers last month, including 500,000 on Laudamotion. This was up from 12.7 million in August of last year.

www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0904/9914 ... r-numbers/

OA260 wrote:

A Fianna Fáil TD has said it could be time for Shannon Airport to penalise Aer Lingus for cancelling flights after the airline failed to operate its Shannon to New York service for the third time in a month.

Aer Lingus cancelled their EI-111 Shannon to New York services, as well as the EI-110 return legs, twice in August and again on Saturday.

In two cases, the services were cancelled so the aircraft could be redeployed to Dublin to operate services from there.

Wow, the TDs over there clearly don't have much to do if they worry about a flight cancellation. Surely there is a better use for their time?

Clearly the flights from Shannon are easier to cancel as there are less passengers on them being displaced and it's probably easier to put them on other flights as a result. This is a total non-issue.

The airport penalising an airline for cancelling a flight is laughable too!

OA260 wrote:

Aer Lingus criticised for cancelling Shannon flights again

A Fianna Fáil TD has said it could be time for Shannon Airport to penalise Aer Lingus for cancelling flights after the airline failed to operate its Shannon to New York service for the third time in a month.

The key theme is that the aircraft was used from Dublin. Im sure it appeals to the local electorate.

The latest rumour is that the two Stobart ERJs are to be wet leased (ACMI) to BA Cityflyer. One based in DUB and one based in LCY.

Bigger and newer - airline tests the waters for Dublin

Corporate passengers travelling from Istanbul to Ireland last week could have been forgiven for doing a double-take in the business cabin.

While regular travellers are used to Turkish Airlines' workhorses on the Dublin route - the Boeing 737-800 and 900 series - it was a case of two very different beasts operating midweek.
First up on the medium-haul flight (just over three and a half hours) was the Airbus A330-200, with capacity for 30 business passengers.

The widebodied jet is well known by business travellers flying to the US west coast, as it's used to the likes of long-haul LA and San Francisco by Aer Lingus.

It's a case of looking at what ground-handling can deal with, as well as customer feedback. "We're trying each and every member of the fleet to see the preference, and it seems we can manage everything," he said, adding that it could be a situation of a large widebody, such as the Boeing 777, which is the workhorse used by rival Emirates on Dublin-Dubai, being tried out too.

https://m.independent.ie/business/bigge ... 73612.html

AmricanShamrok wrote:

BrianDromey wrote:

OA260 wrote:

Aer Lingus criticised for cancelling Shannon flights again

A Fianna Fáil TD has said it could be time for Shannon Airport to penalise Aer Lingus for cancelling flights after the airline failed to operate its Shannon to New York service for the third time in a month.

The key theme is that the aircraft was used from Dublin. Im sure it appeals to the local electorate.

I'd be interested in seeing the cost benefit of redeploying the 757 to DUB (not that I ever will). If both flights are full, why not just cancel DUB-BDL rather than spending money transferring the aircraft? Is it a reputation thing to not undermine the "DUB Hub"?

I must admit, I hear a lot of this Dublin prejudice on the SNN Spotters group on social media. Every time a flight gets cancelled and the hull transferred to DUB it becomes a pitchfork war of arm chair enthusiasts screaming murder.

Fact of the matter is it’s far easier to dissipate a 757 load of customers to JFK over flights via LHR, DUB etc than it is to say BDL which pretty much has that sole direct service from Europe.

OA260 wrote:

Bigger and newer - airline tests the waters for Dublin

Corporate passengers travelling from Istanbul to Ireland last week could have been forgiven for doing a double-take in the business cabin.

While regular travellers are used to Turkish Airlines' workhorses on the Dublin route - the Boeing 737-800 and 900 series - it was a case of two very different beasts operating midweek.
First up on the medium-haul flight (just over three and a half hours) was the Airbus A330-200, with capacity for 30 business passengers.

The widebodied jet is well known by business travellers flying to the US west coast, as it's used to the likes of long-haul LA and San Francisco by Aer Lingus.

It's a case of looking at what ground-handling can deal with, as well as customer feedback. "We're trying each and every member of the fleet to see the preference, and it seems we can manage everything," he said, adding that it could be a situation of a large widebody, such as the Boeing 777, which is the workhorse used by rival Emirates on Dublin-Dubai, being tried out too.

https://m.independent.ie/business/bigge ... 73612.html

As much as I’d like to see the TK 777 from an enthusiasts point of view, from a work point of view no thanks.

CarbHeatIn wrote:

The latest rumour is that the two Stobart ERJs are to be wet leased (ACMI) to BA Cityflyer. One based in DUB and one based in LCY.

Highly unlikely given that they are E195 and unable to land at LCY.

I think EI cancelling Shannon to cover Dublin is unfortunate and starts to make the Shannon service look unreliable. No matter how it is dressed up it looks unprofessional

Don't misunderstand me a Fianna Fail TD saying anything is similar to watching paint drying on a toilet seat - it's all a matter of brand image!!!!!

"The sale comes a week after Aer Lingus revealed that it will fly daily between Dublin and London City Airport from October, and ahead of two new North American route announcements due next week - further adding to a growing transatlantic network."

Route Announcement due next week, finally? also the mentioning of "North American" and not only "US" so maybe Montreal (the most likely) will be the one of the new routes?


https://www.independent.ie/life/travel/ ... 80690.html

eirflot wrote:

I think EI cancelling Shannon to cover Dublin is unfortunate and starts to make the Shannon service look unreliable. No matter how it is dressed up it looks unprofessional

Don't misunderstand me a Fianna Fail TD saying anything is similar to watching paint drying on a toilet seat - it's all a matter of brand image!!!!!

I do get your point . Any issues at DUB then SNN gets it but from a business POV it makes sense although not ideal. To be honest the majority of politicians are latching onto anything to give them PR. Even the so called Messiah Varadkar!

I think I'll take the Messiah Varadkar over the re-risen Martin any day! Yes in the end needs must and I assume that EI weighed up the options. I suppose another soare 757 wouldnt nake sense?

Someone’s crunched the numbers , it’s cheaper to cancel SNN ... end of

seansasLCY wrote:

CarbHeatIn wrote:

The latest rumour is that the two Stobart ERJs are to be wet leased (ACMI) to BA Cityflyer. One based in DUB and one based in LCY.

Highly unlikely given that they are E195 and unable to land at LCY.

The E-190 is able to get into LCY (since the based airline uses them); would it take much work to get the 195 certified for LCY ops? Surely not?

kaitak wrote:

seansasLCY wrote:

CarbHeatIn wrote:

The latest rumour is that the two Stobart ERJs are to be wet leased (ACMI) to BA Cityflyer. One based in DUB and one based in LCY.

Highly unlikely given that they are E195 and unable to land at LCY.

The E-190 is able to get into LCY (since the based airline uses them); would it take much work to get the 195 certified for LCY ops? Surely not?

Apparently its not possible for the E175 or E195. I've heard it's because of the longer fuselage beyond the main undercarriage makes it difficult for the steep approach and take off and would make a tail strike likely but not sure if thats the actual reason. Only the E170 and E190 are certificated. The E190-E2 has also landed at LCY on a test flight. If it was possible I believe they would have certificated them already as there are plenty of potential operators who could have used the E175 or E195 at LCY.

The post upthread about an E190 base for Stobart at DUB is interesting. They are also advertising for E195 crew at SEN. The E195 is certified as an E190-200, so Im not sure we can read too much into this, would Stobart really take on more E190s while the E195s have an uncertain future, which may not be a safe assumption. It seems likely that Stobart have work lined up for them, the withdrawal from SEN is all a bit chaotic. I suspect they have some wet-lease work lined up, unless, like flyBe before them, they have realised they really can loose less money by grounding them.
RE ave form for this kind of thing, in their Aer Arann days the new ATR72-500s went off to Finncom not long after they arrived, initially as a wet lease. RE later took on some ancient ATRs from one of DL's connection partners. EI-SLL, SLM and -SLN if I recall. Regularly based at Cork, regularly tech, frequently late and always grimy. They caused havoc when they took over the EIR routes from Cork, going from a modern, reliable A320 to MAN to one of the knackered old heaps! I spent more than a few hours at MAN after midnight and a few nights in the Crown Plaza at MAN. The arrival of the -600s was, genuinely, a new era. Running water in the lav's...such luxury!

CarbHeatIn wrote:

The latest rumour is that the two Stobart ERJs are to be wet leased (ACMI) to BA Cityflyer. One based in DUB and one based in LCY.

BA CityFlyer have already announced they are taking 4 E190s for LCY- rumours are that they are second hand frames from China. It won't be for BACF at LCY, could it be that they are going to be used for BA at LGW? BA seem to need all the aircraft they can get to use the MON slots. The timetable this year was a but chaotic with a lot of duplication, I suspect there will be a very different schedule next summer.

kaitak wrote:

...

It would appear to be not worth the effort. I won't say impossible, but Embraer have never attempted to certify either the 175 or 195s for LCY. They are planning to certify the E190-E2. I doubt they would certify the aircraft so late in its lifecycle.