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Buffalomatt1027
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:20 am

ikramerica wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
vorellanaj wrote:
Good retirement date , 767 product are inferior on AA widebody fleet due lack of PTV. Plus, the engines fitted are non FADEC CF6-80C2.

The newest at retirement date will have 17-18 years, highly probable to be converted to freighter following older sisters.


It’s surprising to me that in one thread we have people complaining about cabin width and how 17 inch seats and 3x3x3 are so unbearable in the 787, and in another thread, the airplane with some of the widest economy seats is talked about as inferior due to age of the cabin and no PTVs. AA really can’t win here.

AA could Have updated their cabins man years ago. It’s not an either or.

The reliability complaints remind me of the A300 fleet. But those weren’t that old when the issues started.


I 100% agree about the interior ...... really outdated. I thought the flight / ride itself was very smooth.
 
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CFM565A1
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:34 am

vorellanaj wrote:
Good retirement date , 767 product are inferior on AA widebody fleet due lack of PTV. Plus, the engines fitted are non FADEC CF6-80C2.

The newest at retirement date will have 17-18 years, highly probable to be converted to freighter following older sisters.


I learned something new here... I always assumed that all 80Cs had FADEC until I looked it up after reading this!
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
SteelChair
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:23 pm

Hate to see any 767 retired. The 767 airplane really forged the way in ETOPS, which has saved millions of gallons of fuel. The airplane with the best coach seating arrangement, 2-3-2. 2 man long haul cockpit. EFIS and EICAS. Revolutionary in so many ways.

These airplanes aren't worn out. AAs decision not to put new interiors in them sealed their fate imho.
 
SteelChair
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:28 pm

CFM565A1 wrote:
vorellanaj wrote:
Good retirement date , 767 product are inferior on AA widebody fleet due lack of PTV. Plus, the engines fitted are non FADEC CF6-80C2.

The newest at retirement date will have 17-18 years, highly probable to be converted to freighter following older sisters.


I learned something new here... I always assumed that all 80Cs had FADEC until I looked it up after reading this!


It must be interesting to be able to compare them side by side. My guess is not that much difference on fuel burn.....what, a percent or two? The EGT protection is probably useful on hot days.
 
EChid
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:25 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Hate to see any 767 retired. The 767 airplane really forged the way in ETOPS, which has saved millions of gallons of fuel. The airplane with the best coach seating arrangement, 2-3-2. 2 man long haul cockpit. EFIS and EICAS. Revolutionary in so many ways.

These airplanes aren't worn out. AAs decision not to put new interiors in them sealed their fate imho.


Luckily Delta has your back. Probably the nicest 767s in extant, what with their complete overhaul of the interior and, seemingly, far better reliability compared to AA. Even the 'kinda sorta not really' updated 767-400 I was on in the spring between JFK and SFO was relatively nice.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:07 pm

I have never flown on an American Airlines 767. But for me old seats without in flight entertainment are perfectly fine. Give me a window seat and a good book and no flight will be too long.

If I can choose to fly economy class on a 767, 777 or 787 I will always pick the 767. It has a much better seating arrangement (2-3-2) than the 777 (3-4-3) and the 787 (3-3-3) and it has no annoying dimmable windows.
 
JAAlbert
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:52 pm

I've flown AA's 767-300s to Europe a few times and enjoyed the flights. The seats in Y were tight, but with my partner and I taking the side seats we could get in and out easily.

noviorbis77 wrote:
767 is a very nice way to cross the Atlantic


I agree - the 767 has always been my favorite widebody - the cabin is wide enough to give you some breathing room but still a bit intimate in relation to the 777, 747 and 380 mega-haulers. My only complaint is the plane's design is looking a bit dated these days. Those windows are just too small and the wings seem stubby in comparison to the 330 and 787. I'd love to see a modernized version of the 767.

[quote="IamGaroott] I debated this with someone just yesterday. A middle seat on a 3-4-3 or 2-4-2 for longer than 4 hours will drive anyone mad.[/quote]

Unless you do like I did and take a sleeping pill the minute the door closes. I slept for six hours straight in the middle seat and woke up with my head resting on the guy's shoulder next to me. I don't think he enjoyed the flight - or me - nearly as much as I did. :(
 
1989worstyear
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:20 pm

JAAlbert wrote:
I've flown AA's 767-300s to Europe a few times and enjoyed the flights. The seats in Y were tight, but with my partner and I taking the side seats we could get in and out easily.

noviorbis77 wrote:
767 is a very nice way to cross the Atlantic


I agree - the 767 has always been my favorite widebody - the cabin is wide enough to give you some breathing room but still a bit intimate in relation to the 777, 747 and 380 mega-haulers. My only complaint is the plane's design is looking a bit dated these days. Those windows are just too small and the wings seem stubby in comparison to the 330 and 787. I'd love to see a modernized version of the 767.

[quote="IamGaroott] I debated this with someone just yesterday. A middle seat on a 3-4-3 or 2-4-2 for longer than 4 hours will drive anyone mad.[/quote]

Unless you do like I did and take a sleeping pill the minute the door closes. I slept for six hours straight in the middle seat and woke up with my head resting on the guy's shoulder next to me. I don't think he enjoyed the flight - or me - nearly as much as I did. :([/quote]


The A330 CEO wing is from 1994. More advanced than the 767, certainly, but I would be careful lumping it with designs from this century like the 787/350.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
AAIRLINERS
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:22 pm

I have flown the 767s since 1985 starting with the base 200, then ER, then the 300 albeit without winglets. I left the fleet ten years ago to fly the 777. During my time on them they were excellent aircraft with very few mechanical problems and rarely placarded with deferrals much like my experience with the 757. One can hardly point at the 20 year mark and conclude the frames are worn out because that does not seem to ring true for Delta's rather large 767 fleet. Whether it be overly aggressive cost cutting or plain overuse the 767 was and is a great design. Even with the advent of the 787 the 767 will remain the perfect airplane for transatlantic market. Even AA management wishes they could have more of them. At least the Air Force tanker program took advantage of them.
Hopefully they will be around in some form for a long time to come!
 
GSP psgr
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:51 pm

AA probably does regret not retrofitting them 10 years ago. IIRC, pre-merger, the plan was to slowly consolidate them down in MIA for their last years on routes like MIA-BOG/CCS/SJO/LIM/SJU/JFK/DFW/ORD where the hard product shortcomings wouldn't matter so much. Parker's frankly flying them on missions they shouldn't be on at this point.
 
N649DL
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:09 pm

soflaflyer wrote:
N649DL wrote:
Wow lot's of hate for the AA 763 on this thread. Com'on, they're not that bad. Y interiors got a refresh with new seat covers and whatnot.

I think AA is spoiled is just used to having new Airbuses delivered on a weekly basis to them these days. Recall they even sold off a 2002 built 757 recently and I was thinking....like why? They could've used it somewhere in the network.

Some brought up no new seats on the planes since 1997. I don't think that's true. Y got the blue seats with adjustable headrests installed later in and around 2000 and AA got a top off order of 763s in 2003 to replace the TWA 763s they inherited. They even had remotes in coach because AA was going to install PTV but couldn't afford it.


Dated interiors are bad, yes, but the worse problem for me are the reliability issues. Even AA stated this several years ago and put together a plan to improve their reliability but I'm not aware if either the plan was unsuccessful or never carried out.


That I believe. AA didn't invest in them for the long term like Delta did with their 763s. Likely because the had many 787s on order.
 
miaami
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:11 pm

Why do the 767s operating at DL and UA have such better reliability than those at AA?
 
vorellanaj
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:41 pm

SteelChair wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:
vorellanaj wrote:
Good retirement date , 767 product are inferior on AA widebody fleet due lack of PTV. Plus, the engines fitted are non FADEC CF6-80C2.

The newest at retirement date will have 17-18 years, highly probable to be converted to freighter following older sisters.


I learned something new here... I always assumed that all 80Cs had FADEC until I looked it up after reading this!


It must be interesting to be able to compare them side by side. My guess is not that much difference on fuel burn.....what, a percent or two? The EGT protection is probably useful on hot days.



Here more CF6-80 specs : http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... /E13NE.pdf

CF6-80C2B6 : Same as 80C2A1, except higher takeoff thrust rating (60,800 ideal). Corresponding PMC and MEC changes. Minor HPT and LPT hardware changes, minor airframe related hardware changes, and added servo fuel heater.

CF6-80C2B6F : Same as 80C2A1, except higher takeoff thrust rating (60,800 ideal). Minor HPT and LPT hardware changes. Incorporates Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC), modulated active clearance control for the HPT and LPT, modulated bore cooling, two levels of 11th stage cooling to the HPT and redesigned accessory gearbox. Minor airframe related hardware changes, and added servo fuel heater.

There are not the same engines , and there are not interchangeable.
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N62NA
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:04 am

I enjoy flying the AA 763 on MIA-ORD/PHL/JFK. Hoping they don't get replaced with A321/738 on these domestic runs.
 
N649DL
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:06 am

miaami wrote:
Why do the 767s operating at DL and UA have such better reliability than those at AA?


UA and DL did life extension projects on their 763s. AA just did basic interior mods and that's about it.
 
PHLCVGAMTK
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:46 pm

Andy33 wrote:
planecane wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
Well that's one more airline who won't be ordering 797/MOM planes as 767 replacements, then.
Now this isn't bad news for Boeing at all - they are buying 787s instead, after all. It doesn't mean that AA will never order 797/MOM at all either, just that the 767 replacement part of the plane's mission is getting less and less significant as the months pass without a launch date.


That's quite the leap. If the MOM ever exists and is cheaper to operate on TATL than a 787-8 by a significant margin, why couldn't they buy that for the TATL routes and move the 787's to other routes? Just because the 787 is more cost effective than a 767 doesn't mean that it will prevent any future order for a model optimized for these routes.


But if the earliest a MOM could possibly go into quantity production is 2025/26, which seems to be the consensus here, and AA intends to replace all its 767s by 2021, then any future AA order for MOM planes won't be as 767 replacements, will it? It may be because AA believes the new model is ideal for some of its routes, including TATL, but it won't be because there is a pressing need to replace 767s, since there will be no 767s by then.

Instead, if they do eventually come to believe that a 788 is too much plane for TATL work (which remains to be seen), they'll have to find something decidedly profitable for those 788s to do instead that allows them to justify the capital expenditure of buying MOMs for these routes. Organic growth would probably take care of that over time, but not overnight.


I'm not sure this analysis is entirely correct, due to the confounding factor of the LUS A330 fleet, which is now scheduled to stick around longer than the LAA 767 fleet. Perhaps not quite long enough to get to 797 production, but close enough to not be ruled out. True, AA doesn't have enough A330s now to do the TATL flying they would like to, thus the staging of 767s at PHL in the summer to cover the new seasonal Central Europe routes (and a few others), and this shortfall will grow as the PHL hub gets built up further. On the other hand, if AA downgauges some ex-PHL Western Europe flights to A321neo/A321LR, that can free up some widebody frames for further TATL growth.

What is probably a more compelling argument is that, between its heavy investments in both the A321 and the 787, AA has the smallest possible space in which it could ever justify a separate MOM frame, and thus the best possible business case in the industry for skipping the 797 entirely.

Speaking anecdotally, local PHL travelers do not appreciate getting the unupdated 767, it feels very much like a merger-mediated hand-me-down. Even LUS 757s are more loved.
 
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Narfish641
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:01 pm

I'll be perfectly honest with you, as a guy that really started getting into aviation a year ago I honestly do not care what 767-300ER/400ER I fly on. Wither it be Delta, United, American, Air Canada Rouge, JAL, etc. As long as I can fly on and experience the 767 flying internationally or domestically, I will be satisfied. Sad to see them go though, but there is a time for change.
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CFM565A1
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:22 am

vorellanaj wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:

I learned something new here... I always assumed that all 80Cs had FADEC until I looked it up after reading this!


It must be interesting to be able to compare them side by side. My guess is not that much difference on fuel burn.....what, a percent or two? The EGT protection is probably useful on hot days.



Here more CF6-80 specs : http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... /E13NE.pdf

CF6-80C2B6 : Same as 80C2A1, except higher takeoff thrust rating (60,800 ideal). Corresponding PMC and MEC changes. Minor HPT and LPT hardware changes, minor airframe related hardware changes, and added servo fuel heater.

CF6-80C2B6F : Same as 80C2A1, except higher takeoff thrust rating (60,800 ideal). Minor HPT and LPT hardware changes. Incorporates Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC), modulated active clearance control for the HPT and LPT, modulated bore cooling, two levels of 11th stage cooling to the HPT and redesigned accessory gearbox. Minor airframe related hardware changes, and added servo fuel heater.

There are not the same engines , and there are not interchangeable.


Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:54 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Awful planes in Y.

Awful!

Reminded me of an L1011 in the mid 80s.

From an aviation buff perspective, they were cool relics...but they cant be competitive in any way


True, but only because of their out of date AA interiors.

I would rather be on a 7-across Y-class 767 than 9-across 787 or 10-across 777 !!
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wjcandee
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:06 am

Still one of the most comfortable planes to fly on as a passenger. Just not on AA. But for the Points Guy to talk about them being crap aircraft is just horribly misinformed and/or shortsighted. Also shows how DL's mission to provide a consistent brand experience reduces the desire of all but the most-detail-oriented of travelers to pick one model of a/c over another.
 
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Narfish641
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:00 am

Here are two links of the different cabins American has on their 763ERs (Credit goes to Tom Beam for the awesome videos!) Yes, the cabin looks outdated but I wouldn't mind flying on this for the extra space!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GeSnADOEd6w

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pevkp7697nA
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EricAY05
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:11 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
Good riddance. The AA 767's are unreliable, dingy on the inside (particularly in economy) with an interior look stuck in 1987. The front of the cabin has been upgraded but the issue here is reliability. Just look at what happened to AA 94 from JFK to MAD on Wednesday this week. Took off, returned to JFK 3 hours later. Replacement aircraft did exactly the same. Both were 767-300ERs.


I would rather experience all this every now and then (and receive €600 EU compensation each time) than be stuck in the shitty Y seats on the 787 or especially the 3-4-3 777. There are simply not enough words to describe how uncomfortable the new Y seat is and how much pain it brings to the back. I've flown it many times in Y+ and have missed the amazing 767 Y seat every single time. AVOD? Just read a book and a couple of magazines or newspapers.
 
parapente
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:36 am

It's threads like this that make one wonder if the MOM train has already left the station.(Sitting on a 788).Certainly in TATL guise in this case.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:55 am

Narfish641 wrote:
I'll be perfectly honest with you, as a guy that really started getting into aviation a year ago I honestly do not care what 767-300ER/400ER I fly on. Wither it be Delta, United, American, Air Canada Rouge, JAL, etc. As long as I can fly on and experience the 767 flying internationally or domestically, I will be satisfied. Sad to see them go though, but there is a time for change.


If there is a time for change then why are A320-200 CEO's still being ordered?
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
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Narfish641
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:40 am

1989worstyear wrote:
Narfish641 wrote:
I'll be perfectly honest with you, as a guy that really started getting into aviation a year ago I honestly do not care what 767-300ER/400ER I fly on. Wither it be Delta, United, American, Air Canada Rouge, JAL, etc. As long as I can fly on and experience the 767 flying internationally or domestically, I will be satisfied. Sad to see them go though, but there is a time for change.


If there is a time for change then why are A320-200 CEO's still being ordered?


I have been hearing about them acquiring more A320s from Allegiant and another I can't put my finger on, I have to do my research on that.
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Spacepope
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:56 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
Narfish641 wrote:
I'll be perfectly honest with you, as a guy that really started getting into aviation a year ago I honestly do not care what 767-300ER/400ER I fly on. Wither it be Delta, United, American, Air Canada Rouge, JAL, etc. As long as I can fly on and experience the 767 flying internationally or domestically, I will be satisfied. Sad to see them go though, but there is a time for change.


If there is a time for change then why are A320-200 CEO's still being ordered?


I have been hearing about them acquiring more A320s from Allegiant and another I can't put my finger on, I have to do my research on that.

Allegiant are not getting rid of any A320s, I think you are probably mistaken.

Rumors are AA are getting up to 25 A319s from sources like Frontier. One just came out of heavy MX at TPA and ferried back to DEN, they may be removing customer specific equipment there before handover.
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Ziyulu
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:28 pm

I will take a 767 over a 787 any day. Even without PTVs.
 
Austin787
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:06 pm

After AA retires its last 767, I have a feeling we will see lots of nostalgic posts about that aircraft. The incoming 787s which will replace the 767s wil feel more cramped in economy, and they may not have PTVs.
 
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:40 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I will take a 767 over a 787 any day. Even without PTVs.


Me too. I would choose a 767 over a 787 even if I haven't been on the 787 yet. The 767s are leaving soon, it is now the time to fly on those before it's too late. The 787s will be in the fleet for many more years. It is now the end of the 767. The 787, it's only the beginning. It is for the same reason that I would choose a 757 over a 737 or an A321.

Last year when I was coming back from France, I was supposed to fly CDG-ORD on a 777 then ORD-LGA on a 738. I was so glad they put me on a direct flight CDG-JFK which was a 757, and I did not even have to ask. They did that voluntarily for me, because the CDG-ORD flight was delayed. This was my last TATL flight on a 757 and I don't think I'll ever fly on one across the pond again, unless I fly Icelandair. What a wonderful way to end the summer holidays. Flying back home on a 757.
Ben Soriano
 
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:48 pm

Austin787 wrote:
After AA retires its last 767, I have a feeling we will see lots of nostalgic posts about that aircraft. The incoming 787s which will replace the 767s wil feel more cramped in economy, and they may not have PTVs.


Oh yes we will. The same way we have when American, and the other US majors, were phasing out their 727s eighteen...twenty years ago or so. Countless posts. And especially that American has a long history of 767 operation. 2021 it will be almost 40 years American will have flown the Boeing 767. It is needless to say that I will always remember the 767, for the rest of my life.
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lightsaber
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:11 pm

parapente wrote:
It's threads like this that make one wonder if the MOM train has already left the station.(Sitting on a 788).Certainly in TATL guise in this case.

Half of aircraft sales are replacement, half are growth. If the MoM is done right, it probably will dispace both 788s (sent for longer haul) and narrowbody flights.

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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:05 pm

bgm wrote:
The 767s have dispatch reliability issues with AA compared to other fleet types. I don't mind the old seats so much, but the minuscule overhead bins create headaches for everyone's kitchen sink that they bring onboard.

That's what happens when BoDs choose to turn over their airline to the likes of Doug Parker. They're happy to slap bag fees on and collect their bonuses and let the cabin staff deal with the resulting chaos.
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osupoke07
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:21 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
If the 797 comes to fruition, I fully expect AA to convert some 787 options to the 797


They also deferred 40 737MAX orders when they made their last 787 order. Those seem like prime orders to be converted upwards to 797 if and when Boeing finally offers it for sale.
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SteelChair
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:14 pm

vorellanaj wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
CFM565A1 wrote:

I learned something new here... I always assumed that all 80Cs had FADEC until I looked it up after reading this!


It must be interesting to be able to compare them side by side. My guess is not that much difference on fuel burn.....what, a percent or two? The EGT protection is probably useful on hot days.



Here more CF6-80 specs : http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_an ... /E13NE.pdf

CF6-80C2B6 : Same as 80C2A1, except higher takeoff thrust rating (60,800 ideal). Corresponding PMC and MEC changes. Minor HPT and LPT hardware changes, minor airframe related hardware changes, and added servo fuel heater.

CF6-80C2B6F : Same as 80C2A1, except higher takeoff thrust rating (60,800 ideal). Minor HPT and LPT hardware changes. Incorporates Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC), modulated active clearance control for the HPT and LPT, modulated bore cooling, two levels of 11th stage cooling to the HPT and redesigned accessory gearbox. Minor airframe related hardware changes, and added servo fuel heater.

There are not the same engines , and there are not interchangeable.


I never meant to imply that they were interchangeable.

I was inferring that it might be interesting to have access to AA's flight planning software and run flight plans side by side (with exact same conditions) see what the bottom line fuel burn difference was.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10230
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:55 am

Does anybody have a more-precise current schedule for the specific months in which AA's 767-300ER aircraft will be retired? Any ideas of the first tails to leave?

We know that all 24 are going to Jetran. That company, in turn, has of course contracted to sell 20 of the 24 to Cargo Aircraft Management (CAM), who now has a contract to lease at least 10 more 767-300s to Amazon over the next 3 years (and as many as a total of 27). Not saying that all 10 will come from this batch of AA aircraft, because some may come from 2 already-converted-and-in-service CAM aircraft and/or the one just-converted CAM aircraft and/or the one CAM aircraft that has been in conversion at TLV for about 4 months.

Just wondering how much is out there in the public as to specific months and tails for the soonest-to-be-retired aircraft.
 
caribair
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:21 am

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:42 am

From : #744fan
2 days ago

Several retirements are coming up as the peak holiday schedule begins to wind down in January.
767: both 381 and 389 retiring on 1/6
MD80: 541 retiring on 1/7
 
wjcandee
Posts: 10230
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:01 am

Thank you!!
 
musman9853
Posts: 961
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:36 am

Thank God. Send those tired old birds to scrap asap
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 773
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:16 am

musman9853 wrote:
Thank God. Send those tired old birds to scrap asap


Nah.. they're just going to be delivering your smiling packages now.. ;-)
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:53 am

Andy33 wrote:
Well that's one more airline who won't be ordering 797/MOM planes as 767 replacements, then.
Now this isn't bad news for Boeing at all - they are buying 787s instead, after all. It doesn't mean that AA will never order 797/MOM at all either, just that the 767 replacement part of the plane's mission is getting less and less significant as the months pass without a launch date.



Maybe, however all they have to do is convert some 787's to 797's and that is all it will take.
 
grbauc
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Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:57 am

9w748capt wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
vorellanaj wrote:
Good retirement date , 767 product are inferior on AA widebody fleet due lack of PTV. Plus, the engines fitted are non FADEC CF6-80C2.

The newest at retirement date will have 17-18 years, highly probable to be converted to freighter following older sisters.


It’s surprising to me that in one thread we have people complaining about cabin width and how 17 inch seats and 3x3x3 are so unbearable in the 787, and in another thread, the airplane with some of the widest economy seats is talked about as inferior due to age of the cabin and no PTVs. AA really can’t win here.


This times 1,000,000. Give me 8 hours on a 767 any day before 8 hours on a 737 or 3-4-3 777 in Y. I can read a book for a few hours and not be tied to a screen for once. Quite refreshing actually!


awesome!!!! good for you but many others not so good.
 
grbauc
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Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:04 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
If the 797 comes to fruition, I fully expect AA to convert some 787 options to the 797



:bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup:
 
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DL757NYC
Posts: 326
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:12 am

These frames are already sold for cargo conversion. I saw an artical on a MRO site
 
klkla
Posts: 852
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:51 am

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:43 am

parapente wrote:
It's threads like this that make one wonder if the MOM train has already left the station.(Sitting on a 788).Certainly in TATL guise in this case.


The latest order of 787-8s appears to be a possible place holder until the 797 is available. They are being leased, not purchased. If the 797 is never launched they would have the flexibility to extend the leases.
 
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texas145
Posts: 19
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Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:10 am

I hope that some of us on the Purple Team will get to fly some of these 767s.
A clear conscience is a great pillow.
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 887
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:19 am

musman9853 wrote:
Thank God. Send those tired old birds to scrap asap


Pre-1988 EIS means they are inherently older than modern models built in 1999-2003.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
OB1504
Posts: 4008
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:27 am

1989worstyear wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
Thank God. Send those tired old birds to scrap asap


Pre-1988 EIS means they are inherently older than modern models built in 1999-2003.


For me it’s not about EIS but about the state of the cabin. If AA had bothered to do a full refurbishment a few years ago instead of only the J cabin, they’d probably be the most comfortable airplanes flying right now. The 8 newer 767s are particularly frustrating because there are IFE boxes taking up space under the seats for PTVs that were never installed.
 
LewisNEO
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:08 pm

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:22 pm

OB1504 wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
musman9853 wrote:
Thank God. Send those tired old birds to scrap asap


Pre-1988 EIS means they are inherently older than modern models built in 1999-2003.


For me it’s not about EIS but about the state of the cabin. If AA had bothered to do a full refurbishment a few years ago instead of only the J cabin, they’d probably be the most comfortable airplanes flying right now. The 8 newer 767s are particularly frustrating because there are IFE boxes taking up space under the seats for PTVs that were never installed.


I agree with you, but I think AA has now a different view on cabin layouts and the maximal use of cabin space.
For me the A330/340 and 767 have the most comfortable cabin lay-outs. Nowadays there's and extra row squeezed in everywhere. I flew once (by accident) on a 767 with a 2-4-2 layout. Horrible, imagine you are constantly touching your neighbor and can't avoid it. Only kids dint have this problem.
You are the wind beneath my wings.

Fokker 27, Bombardier Dash 8, Embraer 175 & 195, 727-200, 737-200 & -300 & -400 & -800, 747-400, 767-300, 767-400, DC 10-30, A320-200, A330-200, A330-300, A380.
 
bmibaby737
Posts: 1645
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 1:07 am

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:43 pm

wjcandee wrote:
We know that all 24 are going to Jetran. That company, in turn, has of course contracted to sell 20 of the 24 to Cargo Aircraft Management (CAM)


I’ve found the information about the 20 aircraft going to ATSG from Jetran, however I can’t find the news about American selling all 24 to Jetran.

Is there any public source for that information?
 
geologyrocks
Posts: 175
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:05 am

Re: American Airlines Confirms 767 Retirement Date

Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:19 am

I think the 767 is remarkable. It will never get the glamour that the 747 got but the fact that the -300 keeps finding orders is an amazing accomplishment. Is there any doubt that the 767 will still be flying in 2050 at this rate?

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