Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:58 pm

That is indeed a crazy idea. Just imagine, main hub still at IST, smaller one at SAW and another one at IGA.
Even at places like LON, MOW, PAR, NYC with multiple airports the "national hero" doesn't have operations split apart on all airports.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24812
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:14 pm

From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24812
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:53 pm

stylo777 wrote:
According to http://www.airturkhaber.com/haberler/th ... perasyonu/ around 75 job rotations, mostly on international country management level at TK.
That seems like a huge rotation! Which principle is TK following here? Change every 3-4 years? Also, I'm amazed about the fact that basically no non-Turkish people are holding these positions. Talking about intercultural diversity...


This shufle happens every year. TK follows the old process of carriers like Lufthansa, Swissair, Air France, etc held that rotated management staff among overseas stations similar to how diplomatic service works.
Most assignments are for a period of 2 or 3 years on station until your next assignment.

As far as Turkish vs non-Turkish, the leadership positions (country manager, sales or station manager) are almost always assignment from Turkey of staff that already have TK experience and can carry out the mission of the company. Local foreign staff general only hired for support positions, very rarely as head of sales or station.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:18 am

mafaky wrote:
According to the news in their website (yet unconfirmed by any party): http://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-h ... arari.html (Sorry, it's all in Turkish) :o

TK will start operations at INA only with 20-30 planes, after Oct. 29th. These will consist of un-connected flights only; all flights with domestic and international connections will still be carried out from Ataturk Airport! Full operations will be (supposedly achieved) only by the end of 2019. Even this may be a somehow "time buying" case; it may get prolonged until the beginning of 2019 Summer Timetable...


Sorry for the above typo mistake: it should read ....by the end of 2018 (not 2019)!
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:21 am

TK787 wrote:
That just sounds crazy !!!
20-30 planes. What planes? What un-connected flights? Can anyone name few of those flights that does not connect to another flight?


This also sounds weird to me, but that was what has been said in the news. We'll have to wait and see, I guess! :( :shock:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4564
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:26 pm

This kind of stuff I can not stand. I am talking about the color correction of TK new uniforms on internet.
Most professional cameras shoot in what is called RAW format, or LOG color space. This gives the post production facility most latitude during color correction. In short, no color information is baked into the images during shoot, so you can pull/push hues, saturation later in a post production facility.
But, CocaCola is always CocaCola "RED", KLM "blue" is consistent on different platforms.
To achieve this, professional cameramen place a "macbeth color chart" in the middle of the frame so the POST production people can zoom in to the specific colors and match colors that were shot under different lighting situations. If they don't do that, POST production people have no idea what kind of RED those uniforms are supposed to be. So, they just choose a RED they like. Not the TK RED. (as seen on video)
Just look at the below video and photo links and compare the color RED in those uniforms. Now ask yourself which one is the true uniform color? I for one, have no idea.

https://youtu.be/ld_u52k8LwI?utm_campai ... tm_term=TR

http://www.airporthaber.com/thy-haberle ... tleri.html
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 24597
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:10 am

mafaky wrote:
According to the news in their website (yet unconfirmed by any party): http://www.airporthaber.com/havacilik-h ... arari.html (Sorry, it's all in Turkish) :o

TK will start operations at INA only with 20-30 planes, after Oct. 29th. These will consist of un-connected flights only; all flights with domestic and international connections will still be carried out from Ataturk Airport! Full operations will be (supposedly achieved) only by the end of 2019. Even this may be a somehow "time buying" case; it may get prolonged until the beginning of 2019 Summer Timetable...

It goes without saying that Star Alliance flights will also stay at Ataturk. I now wonder, what other airlines (particularly BA, EK & QR to name a few, which have multiple daily flights) will react to this as it will be unfair competition for them, as long as TK remains at Ataturk. :banghead:

I'm pretty much sure, that IGA partners have "much enjoyed" these news, if these will come out true. It will be a major loss of face, after all what has been commented, so far!... :roll: :cry:

However, INA/IGA partners will still have a small consolation: The Pax Guarantee to be provided by the State will start clicking during this quarter-time activities at the New Airport!


Hoping this is not true because its a disasterous PR mess if it is.
 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:17 am

TK787 wrote:
Just look at the below video and photo links and compare the color RED in those uniforms. Now ask yourself which one is the true uniform color? I for one, have no idea.

you are right, the red color is totally different. thanks for the background/technical info. I learned two things: 1. how some keeps brand identity and 2. how you can diminish the power of your brand by working with less skilled agencies.
 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:57 am

So, his excellency Erdogan came to word and explained that they were interested in this VIP 748, than the Qatari Emir got to know that and decided not to take any money from Turkey and rather give it as a gift to the Republic. He also underlines thats not his plane, but the one belonging to the Republic of Turkey.
Really great politics, seriously. Everyone supporting him will say "see, told you so, we would never waste tax money on a 500mio plane when we have two more big jets already". But one can be certain that there is much much more to this story. Even if you are full of money (Qatari), you just don't give away a 500mio worth 748. Whoever believes this is nuts, sorry. I'm pretty sure that other background/undercover deals are part of this which of course we will never ever know...
oh and btw, who pays the bills like repaint, maintenance, flying hours, crew and qualification, etc.? Of course, the people of Turkey since neither his excellency nor his Emir friend would cover those.
The question remains, is it really needed for the travel purposes of Turkish politicians when you have a whole fleet of various aircraft types available? (Hint: I don't expect an answer to this ;) )
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4564
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:35 pm

stylo777 wrote:
we would never waste tax money on a 500mio plane when we have two more big jets already".

It is just incredible that most people in Turkey have no idea what is going on with this VIP fleet situation.
Even an aviation authority figure ; SEFA INAN, who writes a lot about civil aviation on internet sites; argues couple of things that boggles my mind:
First, he argues that since the A340-500 left the VIP fleet, TK government needed a new 4 engine plane. He had no idea that the 340-500 VIP still flying for the VIP fleet. Second, he argues that 4 engines are safer than two when crossing oceans and such, talks about ETOPS and adds that he does not fly 2 engine planes on long distances. This is coming from an aviation authority/writer, you be the judge.
Even if this is a gift, ( my friends that work for big companies here in the US, are told not to except gifts from vendors ) IMHO, it is unethical.

There are news that 8 pilots were trained in LH facilities to fly it. We all know it will cost upwards of $150,000 an hour to operate it. A new type for the VIP Fleet means, new parts, new engines, ....... others.
Now, with a 748, 345, 332, 319 and other smaller BBJs, Turkish Government VIP fleet is up there in terms of "Largest VIP fleets of the world".
For comparison, I just quickly made this list of notable countries and their largest 4hole VIP jets:
Algeria 345, Australia 737BBJ, Azerbaijan 346, Bahrain 744, Brunei 744, Canada A310, China 748, Egypt 342, France 342, Germany 343, Italy 345, Japan 744, Jordan 346, Korea 744, Kuwait 345, Mexico 787, Morocco 748, Oman 744, Saudia Arabia 744, Thailand 345.

Let's see what happens next week when Erdogan flies to the UN meeting here in NYC. How many of those Long Haul aircraft will make the flight? :)
 
leftyboarder
Posts: 906
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:38 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:07 pm

I too think this is starting to look ridiculous. The 345 and 332 are both unnecessary at this point, Even the richest of nations do not maintain this big a VIP fleet, bar the Arab sheikhs. And that isn't the competition we should be going after. Even our flag carrier doesn't fly the type.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24812
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:43 pm

As far as gifts, receiving VIP aircraft is not unheard of, especially aircraft that used to belong to Gulf states and Saudi's. For instance, Qatar has gifted aircraft to Lebanon and Pakistan as well.

Also lets remember Turkey received one of its A319CJ as a "gift" from the Italian government by orders of Berlusconi. Aircraft was transferred from the Italian Air Force inventory for token payment of deregistration fees.

Same thing happens with ships. Much of the Turkish and Greek navies post WWII were "gift" from the U.S government. I even took part in two ceremonies in San Diego during 1990s when Turkish Navy received a submarine and ship.

So as strange it might seem to get a 747-8i as a gift, its certainly not uncommon between states. Yes the TuAF will have to acquire parts and support infrastructure and training as it did with the Italian A319, though this certainly much smaller investment than the capital cost of aircraft.

Anyhow, should look pretty spectacular if they retain the red livery on the cirrent VIP fleet.

TK787 wrote:
There are news that 8 pilots were trained in LH facilities to fly it. We all know it will cost upwards of $150,000 an hour to operate it. A new type for the VIP Fleet means, new parts, new engines, ....... others.


Closer to USD $15,000/hr. One too many zero's in your estimate.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:46 pm

I took the liberty to summarize the Turkish Government fleet:
TC-TUR / A330-200
TC-CAN / A340-500
TC-IST / A319-100CJ
TC-ANA / A319-100CJ
TC-ANK / A318-100CJ
TC-CBK / Gulfstream 5
TC-GAP / Gulfstream 4
...and add to that a 748 now ;)

Accept it or not: Thats massive; thats big; and thats waste of resources and important tax-money! Just look at the comparison, thanks TK787!
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4564
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:08 pm

LAXintl wrote:
As far as gifts, receiving VIP aircraft is not unheard of, especially aircraft that used to belong to Gulf states and Saudi's. For instance, Qatar has gifted aircraft to Lebanon and Pakistan as well.

Also lets remember Turkey received one of its A319CJ as a "gift" from the Italian government by orders of Berlusconi. Aircraft was transferred from the Italian Air Force inventory for token payment of deregistration fees.

Same thing happens with ships. Much of the Turkish and Greek navies post WWII were "gift" from the U.S government. I even took part in two ceremonies in San Diego during 1990s when Turkish Navy received a submarine and ship.

So as strange it might seem to get a 747-8i as a gift, its certainly not uncommon between states. Yes the TuAF will have to acquire parts and support infrastructure and training as it did with the Italian A319, though this certainly much smaller investment than the capital cost of aircraft.

Anyhow, should look pretty spectacular if they retain the red livery on the cirrent VIP fleet.

TK787 wrote:
There are news that 8 pilots were trained in LH facilities to fly it. We all know it will cost upwards of $150,000 an hour to operate it. A new type for the VIP Fleet means, new parts, new engines, ....... others.


Closer to USD $15,000/hr. One too many zero's in your estimate.


I disagree. Wow, this could be the first time I disagree with you :) in all these years.
-Turkish Republic that already has a fleet of Long Haul VIP aircraft receiving a "gift", can not be compared to Lebanon or Pakistan and not two weeks after accepting a $15B credit from the Qatar Government.
-A319 from the Italian government was not a gift but more like a bargaining chip. TK ordered dozens of Airbus planes and asked for a kick back and we are talking about a crook like Berlusconi who made that happen.
-About the military/naval aid to Turkey over the years as a NATO partner is totally different. We are talking about old US warships being retired from the US Navy given to NATO member countries to defend NATO borders in times of war.
-For the hourly cost to fly the 748, I was going with the numbers for AirForceOne. Erdogan is not flying at that level yet, but pretty close. AFAIK, "Turkish Republic One" flies tandem (332+345 take off at the same time), one being the decoy. And this: "When the President of the Turkish Republic is aboard any aircraft, the call-sign is "Turkish Republic One". The Turkish President also has several Airbus Military A-400M's which are used to transport the Presidential limousines & Turkish Secret Service Counter Attack Teams. Some A-400M's can also provide aerial refueling for the Presidential fleet." So, we are not talking about flying A to B, but the whole compound/apparatus that goes along with it. That is why I think the dollar amount is not that far off.
https://www.businessinsider.com/air-for ... ump-2017-2
 
MoonC
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:16 pm

I heard the whole VIP fleet would no longer use fuel starting year 2023 but bor...
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4886
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:50 pm

On the VIP comments, if we consider Turkey is the 13-16th largest economy in world (based on differing World Bank, IMF, GDP rankings), then it does not seem that crazy they have multiple VIP aircraft including some widebodies.

Even if we ignore all the Middle East nations and the super power states, many countries have large aircraft for VIP transport. Just a few examples:
Japan - 744 (77W on the way)
Korea - 744
Brunei - 748, 744, A340
Chile - 763
Egypt - A340, 737s
Mexico - 788 (for sale?), 757
Morroco - 744, 737
Thailand - A345, A319

Also if I understand correctly the Turkish VIP is used by multiple parties including ministers and armed forces generals on visits to places like NATO HQ. So while the large widebody might be for presidential use the Gulfstream and small Airbus fleet are well utilized by others as well.
mercure f-wtcc
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:38 am

mercure1 wrote:
On the VIP comments, if we consider Turkey is the 13-16th largest economy in world (based on differing World Bank, IMF, GDP rankings), then it does not seem that crazy they have multiple VIP aircraft including some widebodies.

Even if we ignore all the Middle East nations and the super power states, many countries have large aircraft for VIP transport. Just a few examples:
Japan - 744 (77W on the way)
Korea - 744
Brunei - 748, 744, A340
Chile - 763
Egypt - A340, 737s
Mexico - 788 (for sale?), 757
Morroco - 744, 737
Thailand - A345, A319

Also if I understand correctly the Turkish VIP is used by multiple parties including ministers and armed forces generals on visits to places like NATO HQ. So while the large widebody might be for presidential use the Gulfstream and small Airbus fleet are well utilized by others as well.

Just to update your list:
Japan - 744 (77W on the way)- 744 are on the way out, both replaced by another two B77W.
Korea - 744- on the way out, replaced by B788
Brunei - 748, 744, A340- only 748 left, both B744 and A342 were retired. They do have another 762 though.
Mexico - 788 (for sale?), 757- I think the 788 is meant to replaced the 757 which is getting costly to repair.
Morroco - 744, 737- they have another B748
Thailand - A345, A319- they also have another A320ACJ, three Sukhoi Superjet 100-95LR, and another three ATR 72-500 (72-212A).
Last edited by juliuswong on Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:55 am

A quick one: This is the second time Qatar Government giving away an aircraft to her friend. First being Morocco Government who received a B737-8KB BBJ2 back in 2010.

Qatar Government is getting another B748 A7-HHF MSN 37501 / LN 1495 B747-8Z5(BBJ) from Abu Dhabi Amiri Flight. The latter cancelled order in September 2016. Currently at EuroAirport Basel Mulhouse Freiburg being outfitted.

This will be Qatar Government third B747-800!!
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
aldrigsomandre
Posts: 346
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:30 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:12 am

juliuswong wrote:
A quick one: This is the second time Qatar Government giving away an aircraft to her friend. First being Morocco Government who received a B737-8KB BBJ2 back in 2010.

Qatar Government is getting another B748 A7-HHF MSN 37501 / LN 1495 B747-8Z5(BBJ) from Abu Dhabi Amiri Flight. The latter cancelled order in September 2016. Currently at EuroAirport Basel Mulhouse Freiburg being outfitted.

This will be Qatar Government third B747-800!!


Why? I know they have money, but it's still seems like an unnecessary expense. But, of course, I am a peasant compared to these people.
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:47 am

aldrigsomandre wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
A quick one: This is the second time Qatar Government giving away an aircraft to her friend. First being Morocco Government who received a B737-8KB BBJ2 back in 2010.

Qatar Government is getting another B748 A7-HHF MSN 37501 / LN 1495 B747-8Z5(BBJ) from Abu Dhabi Amiri Flight. The latter cancelled order in September 2016. Currently at EuroAirport Basel Mulhouse Freiburg being outfitted.

This will be Qatar Government third B747-800!!


Why? I know they have money, but it's still seems like an unnecessary expense. But, of course, I am a peasant compared to these people.

Perhaps it is an "thank-you" gift by Qatar Government to Turkey for standing with them during the ME embargo led by Saudi Arabia. But God knows! Some individual's ego is bigger than others. And politics and money always rolls side by side. C'est la vie....

Now back to Turkish Aviation thread......

New delivery for TK Cargo:
A330-223F MSN 1164 TC-JOC Turkish Airlines Cargo Air-test 13 Sept. 2018 at MZJ, OE-reg prior delivery ex OE-IFJ
Source: Skyliner-aviation.de

Can someone confirm if OE-IFJ is really taking up the registration TC-JOC? That's the rego for the A333 which crash landed in KTM back in 2015. On a side note, finally the ex-MH 9M-MUC has a home after RJ abandoned the deal last minute.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11162
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:55 am

Turkish Airlines president confirms plans to begin flying to Australia by June 2019 once 787-9's arrive

https://twitter.com/Enrique77W/status/1 ... 6862385152
Forum Moderator
 
GRJGeorge
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:02 am

Read an article saying TK is to launch 2 weekly flights to Lusaka (LUN) via DAR from 13 Dec.

Any more info on this?
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4564
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:43 am

mercure1 wrote:
Turkey is the 13-16th largest economy in world

Also if I understand correctly the Turkish VIP is used by multiple parties including ministers and armed forces generals on visits to places like NATO HQ. So while the large widebody might be for presidential use the Gulfstream and small Airbus fleet are well utilized by others as well.


-"Turkey is the 13-16th largest economy in the world". Turkish Lira lost 70% of its value against USD this year alone.
-The number of people that can request to use the VIP fleet was just dropped to "18" after the elections in July 2018.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4886
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:00 pm

juliuswong wrote:
A quick one: This is the second time Qatar Government giving away an aircraft to her friend. First being Morocco Government who received a B737-8KB BBJ2 back in 2010.


Qatar has given away many aircraft. A310 VIP to Pakistan, several VIP helicopters for Lebanese, etc.

Its a common practice in the region. For instance, Saudi's gifted Egypt a VIP A340 as well.
mercure f-wtcc
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:07 pm

qf789 wrote:
Turkish Airlines president confirms plans to begin flying to Australia by June 2019 once 787-9's arrive

https://twitter.com/Enrique77W/status/1 ... 6862385152


But how? Even the 787-9 cannot make it to Sydney from Istanbul, at MTOW? Now, I have started wondering if there's a gimmick behind this... As we all know Perth is in Australia, as well... 8-) :roll:
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:53 pm

TK787 wrote:
It is just incredible that most people in Turkey have no idea what is going on with this VIP fleet situation.
Even an aviation authority figure ; SEFA INAN, who writes a lot about civil aviation on internet sites; argues couple of things that boggles my mind:
First, he argues that since the A340-500 left the VIP fleet, TK government needed a new 4 engine plane. He had no idea that the 340-500 VIP still flying for the VIP fleet. Second, he argues that 4 engines are safer than two when crossing oceans and such, talks about ETOPS and adds that he does not fly 2 engine planes on long distances. This is coming from an aviation authority/writer, you be the judge.
Even if this is a gift, ( my friends that work for big companies here in the US, are told not to except gifts from vendors ) IMHO, it is unethical.

There are news that 8 pilots were trained in LH facilities to fly it. We all know it will cost upwards of $150,000 an hour to operate it. A new type for the VIP Fleet means, new parts, new engines, ....... others.

Let's see what happens next week when Erdogan flies to the UN meeting here in NYC. How many of those Long Haul aircraft will make the flight? :)


A few comments here:
1) I know Mr. Sefa İnan personally, and much of the information he gave about this particular 748 (VQ-BSK) was actually provvided to him by myself.
Indeed, there's a mistake that he committed about that VIP 34 (ex-Tunusian VIP, now the TC_CAN). This particular frame was purchased from Tunusia thru Turkish Airlines, but after it received the Turkish registration, TK decided to drop it off from its inventory and sold it to the Turkish Government's VIP Fleet. So they had to make an official announcement, as TK is a publicly open company. Sefa misinterpreted this notice and thought TK (or Turkey) actually disposed the VIP 345. Upon reading his article, I warned him about that VIP 345 but it was goo late for corrections.
2) On the other hand I do fully share his concerns about a presidential flight made by a four engine plane, rather than a 2 engine one (with whatever ETOPS). Personally I also have that fear, and I have avoided flying over Atlantic or Pacific with 2 engined widebodies.
3) Another opinion that Sefa has (which he didn't announce very very openly): Indeed 8 cockpit crew were selected from TK's 777 fleet and sent to LH simulator training on the 748s. I guess this simulator training cannot finish in a couple of hours. Should take 2-3 weeks, possibly. How come did TK know this 748 would be coming to Turkey well in advance? If this was "a surprise present for some kind of gratitude or sympathy" by the present Qatari Emir when did he decide about it and "donated/gifted" this plane to the Turkish Republic? :x :ugeek:
4) Finally that particular 748 frame (VQ-BSK) itself: This plane used to be owned by World Wide Aircraft Holding (Bermuda) Ltd. company, naturally registered in Bermuda. If you trace back about this company, one sees it's owned by two (U.K., to be precise, Guernsey - a famous tax-heaven under British flag) based companies.
An off-shore company, owned by other two off-shore companies with minimal public knowledge that they may be Qatari owned!... So, from the legal point, that frame is owned by the Bermudan company, arrived to Turkey soil under Bermuda registration, and should be sold or gifted/donated to Turkish Republic by that Bermudan company! :twisted: :? Now, how about that?
5) That rather strange flight path it took after its take-off from BSL and flying over the U.K. airspace before re-entering central Europe may be due to two reasons:
a) The said plane may have financially leased by the new owner, through a U.K. based Finance Group, so the plane must make an entry to U.K. airspace.
b) The said plane may be insured by an U.K. based Insurance Group (as ordered from the new owner), so it also had to fly into U.K. airspace.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:20 am

mercure1 wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
A quick one: This is the second time Qatar Government giving away an aircraft to her friend. First being Morocco Government who received a B737-8KB BBJ2 back in 2010.


Qatar has given away many aircraft. A310 VIP to Pakistan, several VIP helicopters for Lebanese, etc.

Its a common practice in the region. For instance, Saudi's gifted Egypt a VIP A340 as well.

Yes indeed, mercure1. Thanks for the refresher, totally forgotten Pakistan Air Force A310-304 AP-OOI which was previously with Qatar Government A7-AAF and few other gifts around the region. Did Saudi Government gave Egypt an A340? Which frame is this?
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4564
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:03 am

I understand from sources that IST-EWR will commence August 2019 with a daily A333
It should be official in a few weeks.

I was hoping for 77W or 789 service but this would do for beginners.
Let’s see if this changes anything for the JFK summer/winter schedules.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24812
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:13 pm

Indeed Newark target for Aug 2019 launch. Typical schedule noon'ish departure from IST and 10pm dep back to IST. TK29/30 tentative flight numbers.

It should do well and offer an additional choice for NYC market and help draw traffic from areas east and south like Pennsylvania.

I don't know if people remember but couple years back I posted chart that showed EWR was the 2nd largest non-served US and Canada market based on potential O&D size for TK.(SFO was largest and launched in 2016).
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4886
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:22 pm

Be interesting to see if they maintain 3 x daily at JFK once EWR starts.

LAXintl wrote:
I don't know if people remember but couple years back I posted chart that showed EWR was the 2nd largest non-served US and Canada market based on potential O&D size for TK.(SFO was largest and launched in 2016).


Out of curiosity what the remaining largest markets?
mercure f-wtcc
 
User avatar
TK787
Topic Author
Posts: 4564
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:43 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:33 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Out of curiosity what the remaining largest markets?

Could SEA be the first one on that list?
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24812
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:14 pm

Based on US/Canada-Turkey O&D demand then its EWR, SEA, YVR, DFW, DTW, MCO, DEN, MSP, LAS, YYC

Based on the overall traffic potential for TK if beyond market connectivity is included then top new markets are EWR, YVR, DFW, SEA, DTW, MCO, DEN

Also things like point of sale come into the equation. For example, a MCO is projected to be 60%+ overseas sales, with barely 30% US point of sale, while a market like DEN would almost the opposite of 60%+ US point of sale.
Other factors like market seasonality (DEN strong summer demand, MCO strong winter demand), and things like yield mix (SEA far more premium revenue mix than MCO for example) also play into the selection process by the network team.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:11 am

It is in the German media today that the VIP747-81 is a personal gift from the ruler of Qatar to Erdogan. Or shall we call it a bribe. Makes me wonder of how Trukey can pay for the Operation and maintenance.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
gokmengs
Posts: 1281
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:48 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:27 pm

The 747-8 was apparently paid for a couple months ago according to new report, as for the new airport, get this it will forcefully open on time as a work in progress with a name I can't reveal here that will cause an uproar I'm sure but won't make a difference I bet, think of this if you want to guess the name "EGO" ;)
Yaşa Mustafa Kemal Paşa Yaşa, Adın Yazılacak Mücevher Taşa
 
aldrigsomandre
Posts: 346
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:30 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:31 pm

gokmengs wrote:
The 747-8 was apparently paid for a couple months ago according to new report, as for the new airport, get this it will forcefully open on time as a work in progress with a name I can't reveal here that will cause an uproar I'm sure but won't make a difference I bet, think of this if you want to guess the name "EGO" ;)


Oh wow..
Glad I am not flying through Istanbul anytime soon.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4886
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:43 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Based on US/Canada-Turkey O&D demand then its EWR, SEA, YVR, DFW, DTW, MCO, DEN, MSP, LAS, YYC

Based on the overall traffic potential for TK if beyond market connectivity is included then top new markets are EWR, YVR, DFW, SEA, DTW, MCO, DEN

Also things like point of sale come into the equation. For example, a MCO is projected to be 60%+ overseas sales, with barely 30% US point of sale, while a market like DEN would almost the opposite of 60%+ US point of sale.
Other factors like market seasonality (DEN strong summer demand, MCO strong winter demand), and things like yield mix (SEA far more premium revenue mix than MCO for example) also play into the selection process by the network team.


Thank you for your continued insight. Very interesting info and paints a picture of where we can see TK in the future.

PanHAM wrote:
Makes me wonder of how Trukey can pay for the Operation and maintenance.


:sarcastic:

You make it sound like Turkey is some destitute little nation.
mercure f-wtcc
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:15 am

Well, it was just turned into a dynasty with a crown prince. There are too many Prestige Projects like that new Airport which go far beyond the reality of the economic Situation Turkey finds itself in right now.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
User avatar
A321Lufthansa
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:40 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:45 am

By the way, who knows about the new cabin of TC-JML? I saw its map showing 20/158 configuration - same as 321SL (previously there were 194 seats, same as TC-JRA - JRL). Were there the same seats as on the A321SL installed?
Last flown aircrafts: A21N TC-LSF < B738 TC-JVY < E190 D-AECF < B77W VP-BGC < A320 VP-BOM < A320 VQ-BES < A320 OE-LBO < A21N CS-TJO < A21N CS-TXC < E190 CS-TPQ < A319 F-GRXC < A321 F-GTAH < B738 SP-LWF < E175 SP-LII
 
User avatar
A321Lufthansa
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:40 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:11 pm

A321Lufthansa wrote:
By the way, who knows about the new cabin of TC-JML? I saw its map showing 20/158 configuration - same as 321SL (previously there were 194 seats, same as TC-JRA - JRL). Were there the same seats as on the A321SL installed?

And also what about TC-JUJ cabin? The planespotters.net shows it having CY150 configuration instead of 159/162 on others.
Last flown aircrafts: A21N TC-LSF < B738 TC-JVY < E190 D-AECF < B77W VP-BGC < A320 VP-BOM < A320 VQ-BES < A320 OE-LBO < A21N CS-TJO < A21N CS-TXC < E190 CS-TPQ < A319 F-GRXC < A321 F-GTAH < B738 SP-LWF < E175 SP-LII
 
MeCe
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:19 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:52 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Indeed Newark target for Aug 2019 launch. Typical schedule noon'ish departure from IST and 10pm dep back to IST. TK29/30 tentative flight numbers.

It should do well and offer an additional choice for NYC market and help draw traffic from areas east and south like Pennsylvania.

I don't know if people remember but couple years back I posted chart that showed EWR was the 2nd largest non-served US and Canada market based on potential O&D size for TK.(SFO was largest and launched in 2016).



What I heard, there is a shortage of slots for desired hours. Offered very early departure from EWR but info is little bit dated may changed now.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24812
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:35 pm

A321Lufthansa wrote:
By the way, who knows about the new cabin of TC-JML? I saw its map showing 20/158 configuration - same as 321SL (previously there were 194 seats, same as TC-JRA - JRL). Were there the same seats as on the A321SL installed?


Still 194. Maybe planned 178 in future, but I don't know.

A321Lufthansa wrote:
And also what about TC-JUJ cabin? The planespotters.net shows it having CY150 configuration instead of 159/162 on others.


Yes 150.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24812
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:25 pm

According to sources at DHMI, the opening of new airport rescheduled for December 31st.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
mafaky
Posts: 806
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:04 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:54 pm

LAXintl wrote:
According to sources at DHMI, the opening of new airport rescheduled for December 31st.


I can recognise that this is not a joke, but are you sure about the credibility of your insider sources?

Sure, DHMI knows the best and the very up-to-date case, but what does THY insiders say? Bcz. the last heard scenario is that INA will officially open by Nov. 1st but TK operations will be limited with 20-30 planes and supposedly for "non-connecting flights" (your guess is as good as mine's what such flights mean...)??? TK's full swing operations will supposedly start by the end of the year.

Now can it be that what you have heard from DHMI has some relation with what I've been saying, above?

Ooops! Last minute edit: (sorry but it's only in Turkish) http://www.kokpit.aero/yeni-havalimani- ... t-saglandi

This Site's news are 90% trustworthy. It says, that IGA (the BOTS Consortium), DHMI (the State Authority for Airports) & THY have mutually agreed that INA will start operations by 31st Dec. 2018. However, it doesn't specifically indicate (yet) if TK will start full swing operations by that date or if there still will be any gradual transition for TK, somehow!

I still believe there will be a ribbon cutting ceremony on Oct. 29th.
A veteran Electronics & Communications Engineer from Istanbul-Turkey, highly interested in civil and military aviation.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24812
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:56 pm

I will try to get additional information. Lets see what I can find out over the weekend. If not hopefully more clarity next week.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Galwayman
Posts: 913
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:00 pm

TK787 wrote:
stylo777 wrote:
we would never waste tax money on a 500mio plane when we have two more big jets already".

It is just incredible that most people in Turkey have no idea what is going on with this VIP fleet situation.
Even an aviation authority figure ; SEFA INAN, who writes a lot about civil aviation on internet sites; argues couple of things that boggles my mind:
First, he argues that since the A340-500 left the VIP fleet, TK government needed a new 4 engine plane. He had no idea that the 340-500 VIP still flying for the VIP fleet. Second, he argues that 4 engines are safer than two when crossing oceans and such, talks about ETOPS and adds that he does not fly 2 engine planes on long distances. This is coming from an aviation authority/writer, you be the judge.
Even if this is a gift, ( my friends that work for big companies here in the US, are told not to except gifts from vendors ) IMHO, it is unethical.

There are news that 8 pilots were trained in LH facilities to fly it. We all know it will cost upwards of $150,000 an hour to operate it. A new type for the VIP Fleet means, new parts, new engines, ....... others.
Now, with a 748, 345, 332, 319 and other smaller BBJs, Turkish Government VIP fleet is up there in terms of "Largest VIP fleets of the world".
For comparison, I just quickly made this list of notable countries and their largest 4hole VIP jets:
Algeria 345, Australia 737BBJ, Azerbaijan 346, Bahrain 744, Brunei 744, Canada A310, China 748, Egypt 342, France 342, Germany 343, Italy 345, Japan 744, Jordan 346, Korea 744, Kuwait 345, Mexico 787, Morocco 748, Oman 744, Saudia Arabia 744, Thailand 345.

Let's see what happens next week when Erdogan flies to the UN meeting here in NYC. How many of those Long Haul aircraft will make the flight? :)


My friends working for US companies prefer their ‘gifts’ in cash or codified formally in national tax codes and delivered into bank accounts in dodgy tax havens whilst lecturing others about ethics ....in my experience
 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:48 am

LAXintl wrote:
I will try to get additional information. Lets see what I can find out over the weekend. If not hopefully more clarity next week.

Really looking forward to some reliable sources and news. In overall and of true, it is a wise decision; however, we might face another issue with 31Dec: weather. In particular strong winds, ice and snow... I recall some nasty winter weather during those periods the past couple of years.
 
User avatar
A321Lufthansa
Posts: 262
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:40 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:14 pm

LAXintl wrote:
A321Lufthansa wrote:
By the way, who knows about the new cabin of TC-JML? I saw its map showing 20/158 configuration - same as 321SL (previously there were 194 seats, same as TC-JRA - JRL). Were there the same seats as on the A321SL installed?


Still 194. Maybe planned 178 in future, but I don't know.

A321Lufthansa wrote:
And also what about TC-JUJ cabin? The planespotters.net shows it having CY150 configuration instead of 159/162 on others.


Yes 150.

About JML - I checked once Expertflyer about the flight where it was scheduled - the EF showed me 20/158, that's why I'm asking.
Does anyone have source with the photos of JUJ cabin?
Last flown aircrafts: A21N TC-LSF < B738 TC-JVY < E190 D-AECF < B77W VP-BGC < A320 VP-BOM < A320 VQ-BES < A320 OE-LBO < A21N CS-TJO < A21N CS-TXC < E190 CS-TPQ < A319 F-GRXC < A321 F-GTAH < B738 SP-LWF < E175 SP-LII
 
stylo777
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:40 am

I might have missed in previous threads, but why is TC-LCF delivered as 2nd 737 max8 for TK after TC-LCA instead of TC-LCB to -CE?
 
User avatar
HeyTK
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:04 am

The second Max 8 TC-LCF is on its delivery flight to Istanbul. I wonder why they skipped to F from LCB/LCC/LCD/LCE who are still sitting there?
 
SurlyBonds
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:24 am

Re: Turkish Aviation September 2018

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:40 pm

LAXintl wrote:
(SFO was largest and launched in 2016).


That can't be. I flew TK SFO-IST in November 2015. And it was not a hot-off-the-presses route then.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 11Bravo, AirbusTech06, astaz, Baidu [Spider], BealineV953, cougar15, dcs921, Gayflyer, oakleaf1, Rifitto, sabby, thaigold, VolvoBus, Wildlander and 159 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos