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Obzerva
Posts: 501
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:23 am

eastwest101 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
A real shame about REX ending Mildura-Sydney. Suggests any REX route without a local "arrangement" or subsidy is ripe for cuts. Could VA or QF step in?


I think the end of VA's ATR and E190 fleet was the end of VA at MQL, are they down to less than one B738 flight a day between MQL and MEL now? Rex of course still have flights to MEL, BHQ and ADL to/from MQL if I'm not mistaken? If Rex left completely Mildura then it would be a QF Link monopoly - imagine what that would do to airfares,,,,

If Rex are as short of pilots as some seem to think, then the long flight times and SYD crew base being short would have made the Rex Mildura-Sydney cancellation of services a pretty easy decision for them to make, possibly.


Pretty sure VA's ATR fleet was reduced, not removed.
It was the QLD routes that were handed over to QQ, otherwise they're still buzzing around NSW and on CBR routes.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:19 am

Obzerva wrote:
eastwest101 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
A real shame about REX ending Mildura-Sydney. Suggests any REX route without a local "arrangement" or subsidy is ripe for cuts. Could VA or QF step in?


I think the end of VA's ATR and E190 fleet was the end of VA at MQL, are they down to less than one B738 flight a day between MQL and MEL now? Rex of course still have flights to MEL, BHQ and ADL to/from MQL if I'm not mistaken? If Rex left completely Mildura then it would be a QF Link monopoly - imagine what that would do to airfares,,,,

If Rex are as short of pilots as some seem to think, then the long flight times and SYD crew base being short would have made the Rex Mildura-Sydney cancellation of services a pretty easy decision for them to make, possibly.


Pretty sure VA's ATR fleet was reduced, not removed.
It was the QLD routes that were handed over to QQ, otherwise they're still buzzing around NSW and on CBR routes.


They are indeed.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2793
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:11 am

NTLDaz wrote:
Obzerva wrote:
eastwest101 wrote:

I think the end of VA's ATR and E190 fleet was the end of VA at MQL, are they down to less than one B738 flight a day between MQL and MEL now? Rex of course still have flights to MEL, BHQ and ADL to/from MQL if I'm not mistaken? If Rex left completely Mildura then it would be a QF Link monopoly - imagine what that would do to airfares,,,,

If Rex are as short of pilots as some seem to think, then the long flight times and SYD crew base being short would have made the Rex Mildura-Sydney cancellation of services a pretty easy decision for them to make, possibly.


Pretty sure VA's ATR fleet was reduced, not removed.
It was the QLD routes that were handed over to QQ, otherwise they're still buzzing around NSW and on CBR routes.


They are indeed.


I think VA are still daily into Mildura from Melbourne with a 738. My preferred option when heading up (mid morning, jet service with IFE) and usually Qantas it back. REX offers nothing to appeal - no catering, no onboard service, no lounges, no ff, only sometimes competitive fares. It's always the last option.

I'd welcome a QF or VA service to Sydney from Mildura.
 
Scanorama
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:04 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:08 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
Actually, believe it or not, but the A330s did feature fairly regularly on at least SYD-CNS many years ago (i.e. >11 years) - indeed I flew up there on one of the -300s from SYD.

I flew CNS-SYD on VH-EBB A330-200 back in June 2006. I flew SYD-CNS on AO B767-300 (the final months of AO operation).
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8468
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:24 am

Thai77w wrote:
On another note,
Ah well. I’m re routing via CBR to at least log a Q300.


Don't hold your breath. The chance of that flight either having an equipment swap to a Q400 or being cancelled outright is very, very high.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Thai77w
Posts: 371
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:26 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Thai77w wrote:
On another note,
Ah well. I’m re routing via CBR to at least log a Q300.


Don't hold your breath. The chance of that flight either having an equipment swap to a Q400 or being cancelled outright is very, very high.


That’s ok, any prop will do ;) worst case I’ll take the next flight which is a B717 too.
Aircraft types I've been on: PA31,Q300,AT75,AT76,717,733,738,739ER,763,772,77E,773,77W,788,789,744,319,320,332,333,346,359,380
 
Jasmin81
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:47 am

qf2220 wrote:
https://www.milduraweekly.com.au/mildura-to-sydney-air-services-axed/

REX puling out of direct SYD-Mildura flights. Airport charges mentioned as one reason, though the airport suggests pilot shortage.


Rex have been having a hard time getting pilots. I wonder if part of the problem is their aging fleet. They are the worlds largest operator of the Saab 340s now, and the plane hasn't been built in years - can't imagine they are swamped with type rated pilots, or pilots wanting to get in with Rex to get rated on it. Haven't seen much about Rex having a transition plan in place to move to a newer aircraft either - even the very newest ones are almost 20 yrs old :/
 
smartplane
Posts: 1562
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:10 pm

Gemuser wrote:
This is not an "operational" matter it is a "certification" matter covered under the Chicago Convention & other treaties and administered by ICAO. In "certification" matters the aircraft operates under the rules of the country of registration. An FAA AD or other ruling does not automatically apply to aircraft NOT registered in the USA. Fortunately international civil aviation operates under a VERY cooperative system under pinned by the convention. I really do not think there is a major problem.

Specifically applying this to QFs B744, purely as an example, my speculation, subject to more information becoming available, is that QF B744s do not have this modification, that QF will/has applied to Australia's airworthiness authority, CASA for a concession to operate the aircraft without it until its announced retirement in 2020, CASA would most likely grant it and the FAA will accept it. That's how the system works. I stress that the series of events described in this paragraph is pure speculation, but it is consistent with how the system works.

If a USA (FAA) issued AD has an action by date of 31 December 2019, irrespective of CASA decisions to the contrary, come THE date, QF's ability to operate the aircraft commercially to/from the USA will be impaired. If it does operate to the USA, there will be one off insurance cover written for each non-compliant aircraft operating to the USA.

Application of airworthiness rules ultimately stems from the United Nations, and operate in a similar way for surface vessels and aircraft. If you ply your flag of convenience vessel between two countries with low safety standards, and in transit, stay in international waters, not a problem. But if you venture into a port or waters of a country with higher standards, the vessel will be detained until brought up to local standards.

Commercial aircraft insurers (and maritime too, though not with the FAA, etc) incentivise operators / owners to meet / exceed airworthiness rules equivalent to, or higher than required by the FAA, EASA and in the case of QF, CASA.

Think of the issues that could arise if leasing or financing aircraft to countries with very liberal or no rules.
 
QF744ER
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:46 pm

The QF B744ER's are relatively late builds, did they not come with the centre fuel tank inherita modification where nitrogen generation system must be installed to inhert the fuel tanks installed in assembly?

For those unaware it's an AD after the TWA800 crash.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/med ... 20-98A.pdf
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5092
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:44 pm

smartplane said: If a USA (FAA) issued AD has an action by date of 31 December 2019, irrespective of CASA decisions to the contrary, come THE date, QF's ability to operate the aircraft commercially to/from the USA will be impaired. If it does operate to the USA, there will be one off insurance cover written for each non-compliant aircraft operating to the USA.

I don't dispute this however insurance matters are irrelevant to my discussion. Of course QF will arrange the appropriate cover, it it irrelevant to the question as to the applicability of the AD. IF CASA has not issued it for Australian aircraft it does not apply. I assume they have [although I do not know] and if they issue a concession to extend the date the FAA will reconigse it. To do other wise would invite retaliation against US registered aircraft by other countries. It won't come to that, these things are negotiated by the experts behind closed doors [if necessary] and almost never come to [metaphorical] blows. That's the beauty of the system is that is very cooperative.
IMHO this particular discussion has been beaten to death and I will not respond further.
Thanks
Gemuser
 
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qf2220
Posts: 1982
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:10 am

gpasternak wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VH-OJT has had its QF markings painted over and will make her last flight tomorrow to the desert

Thanks for the photo. Although not specifically related to Australia, was curious about the following.
It's occasionally discussed on A.Net whether the average citizen notice subtle changes in airline logos etc. Although this is not a subtle change, why bother taking the logo off the 747 if its likely sitting out in a desert? I imagine it has something to do with the image of brand, but again at what cost?


Brand image is one thing. Also in Australia (im not sure if in other places this is the case) a business can be held to be trading in an area if their signage is still present. Its probably not a key reason for Qantas to remove the brands but perhaps is a minor explanator of why it is done. Insurances etc might be an issue too?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2590
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:04 am

qf2220 wrote:
gpasternak wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VH-OJT has had its QF markings painted over and will make her last flight tomorrow to the desert

Thanks for the photo. Although not specifically related to Australia, was curious about the following.
It's occasionally discussed on A.Net whether the average citizen notice subtle changes in airline logos etc. Although this is not a subtle change, why bother taking the logo off the 747 if its likely sitting out in a desert? I imagine it has something to do with the image of brand, but again at what cost?


Brand image is one thing. Also in Australia (im not sure if in other places this is the case) a business can be held to be trading in an area if their signage is still present. Its probably not a key reason for Qantas to remove the brands but perhaps is a minor explanator of why it is done. Insurances etc might be an issue too?

.
It seems to be a bit hit and miss. Sometimes they paint it out, other times they don't. It is a fairly desultory paintover anyway. You wouldn't have to be Einstein to work out the airline. Even QF flew its QantasLink Dash 8s with this all red tail livery at one stage. Maybe it depends how long the plane is forecast to sit in the desert before it meets the chopper.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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qf2220
Posts: 1982
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:13 am

Jasmin81 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
https://www.milduraweekly.com.au/mildura-to-sydney-air-services-axed/

REX puling out of direct SYD-Mildura flights. Airport charges mentioned as one reason, though the airport suggests pilot shortage.


Rex have been having a hard time getting pilots. I wonder if part of the problem is their aging fleet. They are the worlds largest operator of the Saab 340s now, and the plane hasn't been built in years - can't imagine they are swamped with type rated pilots, or pilots wanting to get in with Rex to get rated on it. Haven't seen much about Rex having a transition plan in place to move to a newer aircraft either - even the very newest ones are almost 20 yrs old :/


Yeah good point - I hadn't considered that. I had thought that pilot wages have been an issue for some time though given the company is always squealing about cost this and cost that.... Internally it would be tight im sure.

I have for some time been wondering what REX will do with the 340s after theyre done - I don't see any clear successor for them.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2580
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:12 am

aerokiwi wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
Obzerva wrote:

Pretty sure VA's ATR fleet was reduced, not removed.
It was the QLD routes that were handed over to QQ, otherwise they're still buzzing around NSW and on CBR routes.


They are indeed.


I think VA are still daily into Mildura from Melbourne with a 738. My preferred option when heading up (mid morning, jet service with IFE) and usually Qantas it back. REX offers nothing to appeal - no catering, no onboard service, no lounges, no ff, only sometimes competitive fares. It's always the last option.

I'd welcome a QF or VA service to Sydney from Mildura.


I wonder if QFLink could ever send a 717 to Mildura? How many Dash’s do QF send their daily? I’d like to see them send the 717s back to NTL ex-MEL.
 
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A330freak
Posts: 250
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:13 am

SYD, MEL and OOL will see A321neo services from Air New Zealand from November
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... k-in-4q18/
 
smi0006
Posts: 2580
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:27 am

A330freak wrote:
SYD, MEL and OOL will see A321neo services from Air New Zealand from November
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... k-in-4q18/


Whilst not hugely different a bit of variety never hurts the Aussie skies!! Although SYD/MEL do see good variety from NZ 320,789,772,77W.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:40 am

smi0006 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:

They are indeed.


I think VA are still daily into Mildura from Melbourne with a 738. My preferred option when heading up (mid morning, jet service with IFE) and usually Qantas it back. REX offers nothing to appeal - no catering, no onboard service, no lounges, no ff, only sometimes competitive fares. It's always the last option.

I'd welcome a QF or VA service to Sydney from Mildura.


I wonder if QFLink could ever send a 717 to Mildura? How many Dash’s do QF send their daily? I’d like to see them send the 717s back to NTL ex-MEL.


They used to even have a SYD - NTL 717 flight. Back in the days after they took over Impulse when the 717 maintenance was done at NTL.

I'd be happy f ok r them to reinstate the Q400 to Melbourne.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2793
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:33 am

smi0006 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:

They are indeed.


I think VA are still daily into Mildura from Melbourne with a 738. My preferred option when heading up (mid morning, jet service with IFE) and usually Qantas it back. REX offers nothing to appeal - no catering, no onboard service, no lounges, no ff, only sometimes competitive fares. It's always the last option.

I'd welcome a QF or VA service to Sydney from Mildura.


I wonder if QFLink could ever send a 717 to Mildura? How many Dash’s do QF send their daily? I’d like to see them send the 717s back to NTL ex-MEL.


I believe QF go 3 daily during the week on MEL-Mildura. A 717 would be a nice upgauge and likely blow VA out of the water. Though I don't think there are any 717 services to MEL at the moment.
 
ArtV
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:29 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:22 am

tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
gpasternak wrote:


Brand image is one thing. Also in Australia (im not sure if in other places this is the case) a business can be held to be trading in an area if their signage is still present. Its probably not a key reason for Qantas to remove the brands but perhaps is a minor explanator of why it is done. Insurances etc might be an issue too?

.
It seems to be a bit hit and miss. Sometimes they paint it out, other times they don't. It is a fairly desultory paintover anyway. You wouldn't have to be Einstein to work out the airline. Even QF flew its QantasLink Dash 8s with this all red tail livery at one stage. Maybe it depends how long the plane is forecast to sit in the desert before it meets the chopper.


Once the planes are in the desert and sold, the airline loses control of what happens next. They don't want their logo inadvertently appearing anywhere (particularly if looking grotty over time), or - worse - somebody buying the painted aircraft/hull and using it for a viral video by crash testing (or anything that goes "bang"). Easier to protect the brand before you lose control of the aircraft and send it to the desert.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2580
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:57 am

NTLDaz wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:

I think VA are still daily into Mildura from Melbourne with a 738. My preferred option when heading up (mid morning, jet service with IFE) and usually Qantas it back. REX offers nothing to appeal - no catering, no onboard service, no lounges, no ff, only sometimes competitive fares. It's always the last option.

I'd welcome a QF or VA service to Sydney from Mildura.


I wonder if QFLink could ever send a 717 to Mildura? How many Dash’s do QF send their daily? I’d like to see them send the 717s back to NTL ex-MEL.


They used to even have a SYD - NTL 717 flight. Back in the days after they took over Impulse when the 717 maintenance was done at NTL.

I'd be happy f ok r them to reinstate the Q400 to Melbourne.


I remember those flights, and used to work on the Q300s or 200 even up to NTL was a long flight one a 200!! Never realised they upgauged to a 400!!
 
VHZNE
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:33 am

aerokiwi wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:

I think VA are still daily into Mildura from Melbourne with a 738. My preferred option when heading up (mid morning, jet service with IFE) and usually Qantas it back. REX offers nothing to appeal - no catering, no onboard service, no lounges, no ff, only sometimes competitive fares. It's always the last option.

I'd welcome a QF or VA service to Sydney from Mildura.


I wonder if QFLink could ever send a 717 to Mildura? How many Dash’s do QF send their daily? I’d like to see them send the 717s back to NTL ex-MEL.


I believe QF go 3 daily during the week on MEL-Mildura. A 717 would be a nice upgauge and likely blow VA out of the water. Though I don't think there are any 717 services to MEL at the moment.



Yes, there are no regular services to MEL with the 717 although the occasional holiday extra or weekend flight happens.
 
oskarclare
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:53 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:52 am

A330freak wrote:
SYD, MEL and OOL will see A321neo services from Air New Zealand from November
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... k-in-4q18/


And BNE. It just got updated.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... k-in-4q18/
 
Jasmin81
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:09 pm

qf2220 wrote:
Jasmin81 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
https://www.milduraweekly.com.au/mildura-to-sydney-air-services-axed/

REX puling out of direct SYD-Mildura flights. Airport charges mentioned as one reason, though the airport suggests pilot shortage.


Rex have been having a hard time getting pilots. I wonder if part of the problem is their aging fleet. They are the worlds largest operator of the Saab 340s now, and the plane hasn't been built in years - can't imagine they are swamped with type rated pilots, or pilots wanting to get in with Rex to get rated on it. Haven't seen much about Rex having a transition plan in place to move to a newer aircraft either - even the very newest ones are almost 20 yrs old :/


Yeah good point - I hadn't considered that. I had thought that pilot wages have been an issue for some time though given the company is always squealing about cost this and cost that.... Internally it would be tight im sure.

I have for some time been wondering what REX will do with the 340s after theyre done - I don't see any clear successor for them.


I'd wager pilot costs are a thing, their turnover is high, can't be good for them given they have to do a lot of type training.

To my eyes the most obvious successor is the ATR42. It's slightly bigger but it shares a type rate with the 72 which virgin use so getting ready trained pilots should be easier and is a much better aircraft than the 340. 2+2 seating in a much wider cabin, some parts commonality with airbus, quieter and very efficient, moreso if atr follow though on promises to move to newer generation engines. There isn't really any other alternative unless they can persuade bombardier to reintroduce the baby Q400s and that's a much more complex and fuel hungry beast than the ATR, which bombardier seem to have little interest in developing

But yeah finding buyers for 25 year old 30 seaters won't be easy... I guess some will get cargo conversion? I can see others doing shorter interislander flights in the Pacific like the Solomon, PNG, Vanuatu etc, and replacing even older antonovs in central Africa and the Russian far east. A few on FIFO duty in QLD and WA? Not a glamorous vision, sadly :(
 
Ellofiend
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:13 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:35 pm

Not sure if this has already been said, but, QF has been operating the A332 on the DRW-SYD route on and off for the past week
(TUE/THU/FRI)
 
CBRboy
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:03 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:32 am

Qantas has announced Wellcamp Airport at Toowoomba as the 'first of two regional locations' for its new pilot academy. A second site will emerge from the other contenders.

The announcement says that construction will occur in partnership with the Queensland Government and the Wagner Corporation (airport owner), so presumably there's going to be a healthy incentive for Qantas' choice of location. L3 Commercial Aviation have been appointed as the training provider.

I hadn't noticed any previous suggestion that there would be more than one site.
 
VHMHS
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:34 am

QANTAS training academy will be built in Toowoomba in Queensland

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-27/q ... d/10311012
I’ve been on a metro 23, Saab 340, dash 8 300, B717, B737 (700, 800) 747-400, 757-200, A320, A321, A380.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2590
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:50 am

CBRboy wrote:
Qantas has announced Wellcamp Airport at Toowoomba as the 'first of two regional locations' for its new pilot academy. A second site will emerge from the other contenders.

The announcement says that construction will occur in partnership with the Queensland Government and the Wagner Corporation (airport owner), so presumably there's going to be a healthy incentive for Qantas' choice of location. L3 Commercial Aviation have been appointed as the training provider.

I hadn't noticed any previous suggestion that there would be more than one site.


It was always about local and state government incentives. QF are renowned for playing one state off against the other. Chances are they won't have to pay payroll tax for the staff there as well as council rates for years. In the words of Churchill, We know what you are madam, we are just haggling about the price
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2590
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:53 am

aerokiwi wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:

I think VA are still daily into Mildura from Melbourne with a 738. My preferred option when heading up (mid morning, jet service with IFE) and usually Qantas it back. REX offers nothing to appeal - no catering, no onboard service, no lounges, no ff, only sometimes competitive fares. It's always the last option.

I'd welcome a QF or VA service to Sydney from Mildura.


I wonder if QFLink could ever send a 717 to Mildura? How many Dash’s do QF send their daily? I’d like to see them send the 717s back to NTL ex-MEL.


I believe QF go 3 daily during the week on MEL-Mildura. A 717 would be a nice upgauge and likely blow VA out of the water. Though I don't think there are any 717 services to MEL at the moment.


Three 717s a day would blow profits for both QF and VA out of the water. Both airlines have learnt from 2012 what happens when you add capacity way in advance of demand.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1982
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:41 am

Jasmin81 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Jasmin81 wrote:

Rex have been having a hard time getting pilots. I wonder if part of the problem is their aging fleet. They are the worlds largest operator of the Saab 340s now, and the plane hasn't been built in years - can't imagine they are swamped with type rated pilots, or pilots wanting to get in with Rex to get rated on it. Haven't seen much about Rex having a transition plan in place to move to a newer aircraft either - even the very newest ones are almost 20 yrs old :/


Yeah good point - I hadn't considered that. I had thought that pilot wages have been an issue for some time though given the company is always squealing about cost this and cost that.... Internally it would be tight im sure.

I have for some time been wondering what REX will do with the 340s after theyre done - I don't see any clear successor for them.


I'd wager pilot costs are a thing, their turnover is high, can't be good for them given they have to do a lot of type training.

To my eyes the most obvious successor is the ATR42. It's slightly bigger but it shares a type rate with the 72 which virgin use so getting ready trained pilots should be easier and is a much better aircraft than the 340. 2+2 seating in a much wider cabin, some parts commonality with airbus, quieter and very efficient, moreso if atr follow though on promises to move to newer generation engines. There isn't really any other alternative unless they can persuade bombardier to reintroduce the baby Q400s and that's a much more complex and fuel hungry beast than the ATR, which bombardier seem to have little interest in developing

But yeah finding buyers for 25 year old 30 seaters won't be easy... I guess some will get cargo conversion? I can see others doing shorter interislander flights in the Pacific like the Solomon, PNG, Vanuatu etc, and replacing even older antonovs in central Africa and the Russian far east. A few on FIFO duty in QLD and WA? Not a glamorous vision, sadly :(


Whilst there would be undoubtable benefits in having the same type rating, going from 34 to 48 seats i think will make no sense on most of Rex's routes. I dont have data to support this but id be thinking that lots of the flights would be going out with low loads, hence the high price of flights in regional areas. You'd need a same size or smaller plane IMO. It might be that they just keep going on for many years to come with the 340s......
 
Jasmin81
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:29 am

qf2220 wrote:
Jasmin81 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

Yeah good point - I hadn't considered that. I had thought that pilot wages have been an issue for some time though given the company is always squealing about cost this and cost that.... Internally it would be tight im sure.

I have for some time been wondering what REX will do with the 340s after theyre done - I don't see any clear successor for them.


I'd wager pilot costs are a thing, their turnover is high, can't be good for them given they have to do a lot of type training.

To my eyes the most obvious successor is the ATR42. It's slightly bigger but it shares a type rate with the 72 which virgin use so getting ready trained pilots should be easier and is a much better aircraft than the 340. 2+2 seating in a much wider cabin, some parts commonality with airbus, quieter and very efficient, moreso if atr follow though on promises to move to newer generation engines. There isn't really any other alternative unless they can persuade bombardier to reintroduce the baby Q400s and that's a much more complex and fuel hungry beast than the ATR, which bombardier seem to have little interest in developing

But yeah finding buyers for 25 year old 30 seaters won't be easy... I guess some will get cargo conversion? I can see others doing shorter interislander flights in the Pacific like the Solomon, PNG, Vanuatu etc, and replacing even older antonovs in central Africa and the Russian far east. A few on FIFO duty in QLD and WA? Not a glamorous vision, sadly :(


Whilst there would be undoubtable benefits in having the same type rating, going from 34 to 48 seats i think will make no sense on most of Rex's routes. I dont have data to support this but id be thinking that lots of the flights would be going out with low loads, hence the high price of flights in regional areas. You'd need a same size or smaller plane IMO. It might be that they just keep going on for many years to come with the 340s......


Definitely, it won't be an easy switch (which I'm guessing is why they didn't do it years ago), but when push comes to shove I don't think they'l have many options. There's a real gap in the turboprop product lineup right now for sure - I can't think of anything closer to the Saab than the ATR really, unless they decide to go smaller with something like the Let-410 in the 19 seater category, but that's a big drop. It's a shame the Q200 was dropped by Bombardier as it would have 30 seat segment all to itself now...

When the day comes I think their best play might be to go a size up and hope that the reduced per seat costs can go into reducing fares and try to induce some demand - tempting people away from the road.Realistically, though, cometh the day when the duck tape and fusewire just doesn't cut it anymore, unless the government steps in to directly subsidise more routes, I think there will have to be some route consolidation. Even if they could get a direct like-for-like new aircraft, there's only one way demographics are going in the smaller country towns, and operational costs are only going to go up as security becomes more onerous (I strongly suspect the Dubbo screening saga is a foretaste of things to come). It's a shame as I'd love to fly some of those old country routes, and exploring some of those little dots on the map in some old prop where everyone personally knows the crew personally, but those days are gone now :(
 
oskarclare
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:53 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:33 am

Korean Air have loaded 789 BNE flights from 28 OCT 18. Fanatstic upgrade for BNE. Extra 17 seats per service for BNE.
 
gpasternak
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:37 am

Anyone know what TT 396 (VH-VNP) was up to today? Flight radar shows it making it past Rockhampton then returning all the way back to Sydney only to try the trip again a few hours later
Next flights: MKY-BNE-CNS-TSV-MKY
 
Qantas16
Posts: 770
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:25 am

gpasternak wrote:
Anyone know what TT 396 (VH-VNP) was up to today? Flight radar shows it making it past Rockhampton then returning all the way back to Sydney only to try the trip again a few hours later


Seems very odd and doesn't look like its made the trip again... hasn't left SYD since (as far as I can tell).

oskarclare wrote:
Korean Air have loaded 789 BNE flights from 28 OCT 18. Fanatstic upgrade for BNE. Extra 17 seats per service for BNE.


Goods news for BNE and KE! Will have to head out to the airport to watch it one day, 787-9 looks stunning in KE livery.
 
log0008
Posts: 484
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:55 am

What on earth is going on with QF80,NRT-MEL, 8 hours late and now is diverting to Perth from up near Cairns?
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:12 am

log0008 wrote:
What on earth is going on with QF80,NRT-MEL, 8 hours late and now is diverting to Perth from up near Cairns?


One of the extra MEL-PER A330 flights has been cancelled tonight so it looks like it is positioning to PER to operate QF1333 PER-MEL. If this is the case it doesnt really explain what happens to the passengers who are NRT-MEL. Its definitely a strange one
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A350OZ
Posts: 174
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Just sitting at MEL now waiting for JL774, and surprised by an MH A380 awaiting boarding at the gate. Didn’t realise they were subbing for the A330.
 
Obzerva
Posts: 501
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:15 pm

A350OZ wrote:
Just sitting at MEL now waiting for JL774, and surprised by an MH A380 awaiting boarding at the gate. Didn’t realise they were subbing for the A330.


School holidays in Victoria, so possibly a capacity increase for that. Really a no brainer given how much downtime MH A380s have.
 
TN486
Posts: 556
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:08 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:22 pm

qf789 wrote:
log0008 wrote:
What on earth is going on with QF80,NRT-MEL, 8 hours late and now is diverting to Perth from up near Cairns?


One of the extra MEL-PER A330 flights has been cancelled tonight so it looks like it is positioning to PER to operate QF1333 PER-MEL. If this is the case it doesnt really explain what happens to the passengers who are NRT-MEL. Its definitely a strange one

My assumption would be the load on QF80 is light, hence its a planned diversion to help those supporting the "weagles". Assume can also make as ASS-U-andME.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
Qantas737
Posts: 766
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2000 8:34 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:30 pm

qf789 wrote:
log0008 wrote:
What on earth is going on with QF80,NRT-MEL, 8 hours late and now is diverting to Perth from up near Cairns?


One of the extra MEL-PER A330 flights has been cancelled tonight so it looks like it is positioning to PER to operate QF1333 PER-MEL. If this is the case it doesnt really explain what happens to the passengers who are NRT-MEL. Its definitely a strange one


From the Qantas Source:

QANTAS A330-300 VH-QPG Operates Delayed QF80 and Diverts to Perth.
Sep 27, 2018

QANTAS A330-300 VH-QPG operating yesterday’s delayed QF80 Tokyo Narita – Melbourne diverted to Perth this evening. The flight was operating with minimal or no passengers after passengers were accommodated on last night’s services to Sydney and Brisbane and the diversion appears to have been following the cancellation of a scheduled additional Melbourne – Perth A330-200 service this evening. This ensures an A330 is available at Perth for AFL flights to Melbourne tomorrow.
 
TN486
Posts: 556
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:39 pm

seems my assumption was correct. I did check source quoted above and no mention of the diversion when I checked. This also shows that Q source is quick to react, but in this case not quick enough. Anyway, we all know what is happening, cheers.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
Qantas16
Posts: 770
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:41 pm

Qantas737 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
log0008 wrote:
What on earth is going on with QF80,NRT-MEL, 8 hours late and now is diverting to Perth from up near Cairns?


One of the extra MEL-PER A330 flights has been cancelled tonight so it looks like it is positioning to PER to operate QF1333 PER-MEL. If this is the case it doesnt really explain what happens to the passengers who are NRT-MEL. Its definitely a strange one


From the Qantas Source:

QANTAS A330-300 VH-QPG Operates Delayed QF80 and Diverts to Perth.
Sep 27, 2018

QANTAS A330-300 VH-QPG operating yesterday’s delayed QF80 Tokyo Narita – Melbourne diverted to Perth this evening. The flight was operating with minimal or no passengers after passengers were accommodated on last night’s services to Sydney and Brisbane and the diversion appears to have been following the cancellation of a scheduled additional Melbourne – Perth A330-200 service this evening. This ensures an A330 is available at Perth for AFL flights to Melbourne tomorrow.


From looking at the flights track on FlightAware, it looks like the decision to divert was not made until the aircraft was near Cairns... which would seem very odd!
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:19 am

QPG was delayed overnight in NRT after arriving on Wednesday (due to an earlier 24 hour delay to Tuesday's 79/80 and insufficient rested crew at NRT). It operated empty on NRT-PER and the 'diversion' to PER was planned prior to departure. All the pax from Wednesday's QF80 had been re-accommodated on other flights out of TYO.

VNP on TT396 was a tech issue. Unsure why they went all the way back to SYD rather than BNE.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:25 am

Qantas16 wrote:
Qantas737 wrote:
qf789 wrote:

One of the extra MEL-PER A330 flights has been cancelled tonight so it looks like it is positioning to PER to operate QF1333 PER-MEL. If this is the case it doesnt really explain what happens to the passengers who are NRT-MEL. Its definitely a strange one


From the Qantas Source:

QANTAS A330-300 VH-QPG Operates Delayed QF80 and Diverts to Perth.
Sep 27, 2018

QANTAS A330-300 VH-QPG operating yesterday’s delayed QF80 Tokyo Narita – Melbourne diverted to Perth this evening. The flight was operating with minimal or no passengers after passengers were accommodated on last night’s services to Sydney and Brisbane and the diversion appears to have been following the cancellation of a scheduled additional Melbourne – Perth A330-200 service this evening. This ensures an A330 is available at Perth for AFL flights to Melbourne tomorrow.


From looking at the flights track on FlightAware, it looks like the decision to divert was not made until the aircraft was near Cairns... which would seem very odd!


Its indeed odd, by diverting to PER over CNS they would have used an extra 2 hours worth of fuel over a direct routing to PER, a flight NRT to PER would take about 10 hours, so it seems that it was a decision to divert rather than a planned change
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:35 am

Domestic BITRE for July now available

Passenger numbers for the month

Top 10
MEL-SYD up 0.4%
SYD-BNE up 2.5%
BNE-MEL up 3%
OOL-SYD down 3.7%
ADL-MEL up 0.6%
MEL-OOL up 3.5%
MEL-PER up 3.4%
SYD-ADL up 2.1%
PER-SYD up 0.5%
HBA-MEL up 0.5%

Other notable routes

QLD saw some routes with significant higher passenger number
BNE-MKY up 18%
BNE-CBR up 13.7%
MEL-MCY up 12.1%
SYD-HTI up 20.8%

WA regional flights saw increase in passenger numbers amongst most routes
PER-KTA up 10.1%
PER-PHE up 15.3%
PER-ZNE up 16.3%
PER-KGI up 23.1%
BME-PER saw a decline of 3.8%

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/ongoi ... 202018.pdf
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SeaEagle8
Posts: 181
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:59 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:07 am

oskarclare wrote:
Korean Air have loaded 789 BNE flights from 28 OCT 18. Fanatstic upgrade for BNE. Extra 17 seats per service for BNE.


Are you sure it’s not the other way around? The 789 has fewer seats than the 333 flown by Korean Air. Not a large difference but definitely fewer. Good to have brand new metal though.
NSW based avgeek
 
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qf2220
Posts: 1982
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:29 am

Jasmin81 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Jasmin81 wrote:

I'd wager pilot costs are a thing, their turnover is high, can't be good for them given they have to do a lot of type training.

To my eyes the most obvious successor is the ATR42. It's slightly bigger but it shares a type rate with the 72 which virgin use so getting ready trained pilots should be easier and is a much better aircraft than the 340. 2+2 seating in a much wider cabin, some parts commonality with airbus, quieter and very efficient, moreso if atr follow though on promises to move to newer generation engines. There isn't really any other alternative unless they can persuade bombardier to reintroduce the baby Q400s and that's a much more complex and fuel hungry beast than the ATR, which bombardier seem to have little interest in developing

But yeah finding buyers for 25 year old 30 seaters won't be easy... I guess some will get cargo conversion? I can see others doing shorter interislander flights in the Pacific like the Solomon, PNG, Vanuatu etc, and replacing even older antonovs in central Africa and the Russian far east. A few on FIFO duty in QLD and WA? Not a glamorous vision, sadly :(


Whilst there would be undoubtable benefits in having the same type rating, going from 34 to 48 seats i think will make no sense on most of Rex's routes. I dont have data to support this but id be thinking that lots of the flights would be going out with low loads, hence the high price of flights in regional areas. You'd need a same size or smaller plane IMO. It might be that they just keep going on for many years to come with the 340s......


Definitely, it won't be an easy switch (which I'm guessing is why they didn't do it years ago), but when push comes to shove I don't think they'l have many options. There's a real gap in the turboprop product lineup right now for sure - I can't think of anything closer to the Saab than the ATR really, unless they decide to go smaller with something like the Let-410 in the 19 seater category, but that's a big drop. It's a shame the Q200 was dropped by Bombardier as it would have 30 seat segment all to itself now...

When the day comes I think their best play might be to go a size up and hope that the reduced per seat costs can go into reducing fares and try to induce some demand - tempting people away from the road.Realistically, though, cometh the day when the duck tape and fusewire just doesn't cut it anymore, unless the government steps in to directly subsidise more routes, I think there will have to be some route consolidation. Even if they could get a direct like-for-like new aircraft, there's only one way demographics are going in the smaller country towns, and operational costs are only going to go up as security becomes more onerous (I strongly suspect the Dubbo screening saga is a foretaste of things to come). It's a shame as I'd love to fly some of those old country routes, and exploring some of those little dots on the map in some old prop where everyone personally knows the crew personally, but those days are gone now :(


One thing that may happen is that Rex becomes a 2 fleet carrier. Not ideal but it might be the way it works. As 340s are retired due to MX issues they are replaced with ATRs which are then deployed on thicker routes, eg WGA/ABX. The 340s would cascade down to the smaller routes. Smaller places like Leeton and Narrandera are probably going to keep getting smaller and bigger places getting bigger*, so it may be that some of these routes end up dying a natural death, negating the need for the 340s in the longer run.

*With road user charging this will encourage mode shift to more efficient modes, but will (in my view) encourage people to live closer together and so the population of smaller towns will consolidate with bigger ones. This is in addition to the natural decline of most smaller regional areas...
 
CBRboy
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:03 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:50 am

qf789 wrote:
Its indeed odd, by diverting to PER over CNS they would have used an extra 2 hours worth of fuel over a direct routing to PER, a flight NRT to PER would take about 10 hours, so it seems that it was a decision to divert rather than a planned change

How easy would it be for QF to get Japanese approval at short notice for a commercial aircraft to fly once-off from NRT to PER? A possible explanation is that it doesn't require anyone's approval for the aircraft to operate the scheduled QF80 service from NRT to MEL, albeit empty, so the crew filed for departure on that basis and then 'diverted' to PER.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:30 am

Just checked out FR24, there are about 12 flights flying between PER and MEL, including 2 F100's, one Alliance and 1 from Skippers, 1 of the QFlink A320's is also heading for MEL

Tomorrow VA327 MEL-BNE will be operated by A332 instead of 738 as there are 2 redeye A332's PER-MEL tonight, usually the A332 that operates today PER-BNE-PER overnights for PER-BNE on Saturdays, that will be heading to MEL instead tomorrow, 5am dep from PER
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ben175
Posts: 807
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:00 am

Can someone explain to me the protocol for iPads in Business on QF domestic? I flew BNE-CNS on a 712 and had an iPad in the seat pocket, but not on my 738 CNS-MEL service. You’d think it would be the other way around...
 
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CraigAnderson
Posts: 600
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - September 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:50 am

I find the response being "very positive" to be interesting, yes, because I didn't think those Indian airlines would be interested in PER (particularly given how both AI and 9W are a mess right now). Unless, of course, the "very positive" statement was just spin


Either
1. a bunch of Indian airlines, several of which are basket-cases, are very enthusiastic about flying to Perth, or
2. the airline were not really interested but hey, the Govt can't put out a statement saying their expensive junket was a waste.

Tell me, which of those two sounds more likely to you?

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