Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
NZ6 wrote:Zkpilot wrote:NZ321 wrote:A350 advantages - ready now, more spacious economy cabin (per seat), lighter (NZ uses it’s WB fleet for short flights too), not as big as 779.
Exciting news indeed if this is true. Fingers crossed. I am hoping after my memorable A359 travel experiences this past year that NZ will opt for this plane.
779 can haul more though, provided more capacity, offers more room in business and premium economy (depending on configuration), apparently more freight ability, commonality with existing fleet.
He's a question though, does NZ want to or need to 'haul more'?
When you look back 10-15 years ago you had 2 x 744's AKLLAX, for a period it was 3x daily. Now, you see an alliance with UA over SFO. NZ's opened IAH and ORD and have been clear about strengthening this with more routes.
HKG has an alliance with CX up to 3x daily.
SIN has an alliance with SQ up to 3x daily.
BJS has an allaince operated by CA.
YVR could still support more frequency.
I would like to see more Japanese ports open and protect Tokyo with the premium market.
Moving forward I believe NZ will continue to focus on alliances, frequency and connecting more ports direct vs operating capacity into main hubs.
The 777 has really become the new 767 for some markets.
NZ6 wrote:NZ321 wrote:What are these Virgin planes at Nelson? I haven't heard anything about this to date.
Some ex Virgin ATR's.
A quick google should pull something up - http://nzcivair.blogspot.com/2017/07/vi ... today.html
I said a few months ago Air Chathams should pick up a ATR or two...
zkojq wrote:Does anyone know why NZ281 is delayed so heavily today? Supposed to be running at least three hours late but I can't even tell if it's actually left Singapore. Auckland Airport's website says it has been rescheduled.
Zkpilot wrote:Found it!
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/qan ... nife-edge/
Agree with ZK-NBT that the A35J is going to be the main option for NZ if they chose the Airbus option as the A359 isn’t much larger than the 789. Of course some might be needed for ULH perhaps.
NZ6 wrote:Zkpilot wrote:Found it!
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/qan ... nife-edge/
Agree with ZK-NBT that the A35J is going to be the main option for NZ if they chose the Airbus option as the A359 isn’t much larger than the 789. Of course some might be needed for ULH perhaps.
Thanks for sharing. Will be interesting to see what QF does fleet wise over the coming decade.
If NZ went A350 could we see a single type for all mid/long haul at some point?
Personally, I think the A350-900 is still too large for some markets but not by a lot. 20-30 seats too big perhaps.
Does NZ scale back their 787 fleet and increase the number of A350 frames?
Currently, NZ will have 14x 787 and 15x 777 mix.
Will we see something like 5x A35J, 18x A359 and 8x 787-9
Providing growth of two frames.
Zkpilot wrote:NZ6 wrote:Zkpilot wrote:Found it!
https://www.airlineratings.com/news/qan ... nife-edge/
Agree with ZK-NBT that the A35J is going to be the main option for NZ if they chose the Airbus option as the A359 isn’t much larger than the 789. Of course some might be needed for ULH perhaps.
Thanks for sharing. Will be interesting to see what QF does fleet wise over the coming decade.
If NZ went A350 could we see a single type for all mid/long haul at some point?
Personally, I think the A350-900 is still too large for some markets but not by a lot. 20-30 seats too big perhaps.
Does NZ scale back their 787 fleet and increase the number of A350 frames?
Currently, NZ will have 14x 787 and 15x 777 mix.
Will we see something like 5x A35J, 18x A359 and 8x 787-9
Providing growth of two frames.
Nah I think they’ll keep both for the following reasons:
1) Size - The 789 is still quite a bit smaller than the A359 and by all accounts more efficient.
2) Not putting all eggs in one basket - as we’ve seen how much disruption the 787 issues have caused, imagine if something happened with only one fleet type.
3) Keep both Boeing and Airbus on their best behaviour. Hard to do if you don’t have the other in your fleet. Remember also that Airbus has the shorthaul fleet sewn up.
I think we will see the fleet by 2025 consisting of 12x A35J, 7x A359 (or A359ULR), 13x 789.
That results in a fleet with 5x more aircraft than NZ currently has (not incl the leased birds) - not NZ currently has 11x 789 and the extra 777s are covering out of service 789.
Also remember that NZ is getting A321NEO which can takeover some of the shorter flights currently operated by the widebodies. So a decent amount of growth there.
NZ6 wrote:Zkpilot wrote:NZ6 wrote:
Thanks for sharing. Will be interesting to see what QF does fleet wise over the coming decade.
If NZ went A350 could we see a single type for all mid/long haul at some point?
Personally, I think the A350-900 is still too large for some markets but not by a lot. 20-30 seats too big perhaps.
Does NZ scale back their 787 fleet and increase the number of A350 frames?
Currently, NZ will have 14x 787 and 15x 777 mix.
Will we see something like 5x A35J, 18x A359 and 8x 787-9
Providing growth of two frames.
Nah I think they’ll keep both for the following reasons:
1) Size - The 789 is still quite a bit smaller than the A359 and by all accounts more efficient.
2) Not putting all eggs in one basket - as we’ve seen how much disruption the 787 issues have caused, imagine if something happened with only one fleet type.
3) Keep both Boeing and Airbus on their best behaviour. Hard to do if you don’t have the other in your fleet. Remember also that Airbus has the shorthaul fleet sewn up.
I think we will see the fleet by 2025 consisting of 12x A35J, 7x A359 (or A359ULR), 13x 789.
That results in a fleet with 5x more aircraft than NZ currently has (not incl the leased birds) - not NZ currently has 11x 789 and the extra 777s are covering out of service 789.
Also remember that NZ is getting A321NEO which can takeover some of the shorter flights currently operated by the widebodies. So a decent amount of growth there.
Yeah, the 787 is better suited to "lighter" routes, we're talking about the first delivery being around 2022 so 4-5years away and initially replacing just the 772's.
At this time the oldest 787 will be 8 years old, just over halfway to traditional retirement and the 77W will be replaced first.
There is a real chance we'll see between 10-14x 787's and then 15-17 A350. Question is will there be a mix, I'm starting to wonder if NZ will move away from the 350+ seat market altogether.
Personally, I think we'll see a boring order to replace 8x 772 with 8x A359 and options for X number. 18-24 months later NZ will exercise some rights and announce a 77W replacement. Then during the early 2020's NZ will also take options on 1-3 more frames, most likely A359 in my opinion.
At around 2025-2030 NZ will start to make noise about the 787 future.
NZ6 wrote:Zkpilot wrote:NZ6 wrote:
Thanks for sharing. Will be interesting to see what QF does fleet wise over the coming decade.
If NZ went A350 could we see a single type for all mid/long haul at some point?
Personally, I think the A350-900 is still too large for some markets but not by a lot. 20-30 seats too big perhaps.
Does NZ scale back their 787 fleet and increase the number of A350 frames?
Currently, NZ will have 14x 787 and 15x 777 mix.
Will we see something like 5x A35J, 18x A359 and 8x 787-9
Providing growth of two frames.
Nah I think they’ll keep both for the following reasons:
1) Size - The 789 is still quite a bit smaller than the A359 and by all accounts more efficient.
2) Not putting all eggs in one basket - as we’ve seen how much disruption the 787 issues have caused, imagine if something happened with only one fleet type.
3) Keep both Boeing and Airbus on their best behaviour. Hard to do if you don’t have the other in your fleet. Remember also that Airbus has the shorthaul fleet sewn up.
I think we will see the fleet by 2025 consisting of 12x A35J, 7x A359 (or A359ULR), 13x 789.
That results in a fleet with 5x more aircraft than NZ currently has (not incl the leased birds) - not NZ currently has 11x 789 and the extra 777s are covering out of service 789.
Also remember that NZ is getting A321NEO which can takeover some of the shorter flights currently operated by the widebodies. So a decent amount of growth there.
Yeah, the 787 is better suited to "lighter" routes, we're talking about the first delivery being around 2022 so 4-5years away and initially replacing just the 772's.
At this time the oldest 787 will be 8 years old, just over halfway to traditional retirement and the 77W will be replaced first.
There is a real chance we'll see between 10-14x 787's and then 15-17 A350. Question is will there be a mix, I'm starting to wonder if NZ will move away from the 350+ seat market altogether.
Personally, I think we'll see a boring order to replace 8x 772 with 8x A359 and options for X number. 18-24 months later NZ will exercise some rights and announce a 77W replacement. Then during the early 2020's NZ will also take options on 1-3 more frames, most likely A359 in my opinion.
At around 2025-2030 NZ will start to make noise about the 787 future.
thegrandvizier wrote:I noticed on FlightAware a Qlink Q400 due YBBN-YSNF-NZAA tomorrow. For Jetstar perhaps?
777ER wrote:thegrandvizier wrote:I noticed on FlightAware a Qlink Q400 due YBBN-YSNF-NZAA tomorrow. For Jetstar perhaps?
Link please as I can't find anything on flightaware
nz2 wrote:I dont understand why there is such support for the 350 here, the 787 or 777 are both excellent aircraft and I would personally chose a Boeing over Airbus, I just feel more confident in their engineering integrity. As for comfort I am plenty comfortable in Boeing's although the NZ J seats are no longer cutting edge and I actually like the PE better in regards layout/orientation when travelling with the wife and are in particular the better value for the respective money paid, but never say no to the upgrade!
cchan wrote:Saw on Flightradar24 that NZ6092 is scheduled PAE-AKL on 15/09. Wondering which aircraft will this be?
77west wrote:I reckon a 787-10 order to cover the Asian routes (replacing / upgauging 772) and 777-9 to replace / upgauge the 77W routes is the most likely. With the T1000-10 RR has rid itself of the current 787 engine issues, and with the 777-9 there is commonality of type within the existing fleet. That also opens them up to the 777-8 for a potential NYC nonstop...
TheLifehouse wrote:Anyone know how the repainting is going?
My understanding is that there is still 1 772, 1 ATR and a handful of Dash 8 Q300s still in the old livery while ZK-OKF is in Singapore currently being repainted (Please correct me if I'm wrong)
It would be also great to know which specific Q300s are still in the old livery.
Any info would be appreciated.
777ER wrote:First picture is on twitter of ZK-NNA sitting outside the hanger. Possibly going to wear the All Black livery
Mr AirNZ wrote:777ER wrote:First picture is on twitter of ZK-NNA sitting outside the hanger. Possibly going to wear the All Black livery
The photo on twitter is NNB. NNA is already fully painted.
DavidJ08 wrote:One argument for A359 for the 772 replacement: the 772 at present is a jack of all trades in the NZ fleet, and does anything and everything (North America, EZE, Asia, Pacific) and is a universal backup aircraft. If it is a straight-up 772 replacement then it will likely stay in the 300-320 seat range, which really means A350-900 and 787-10 (as the 777-8 is closer to the 777-300ER size while the 777-9 is even bigger), and the 787-10 lacks range so likely won't be able to North America and EZE.
If NZ is indeed looking for a direct replacement of the 772 (300-320 seat versatile workhorse) then I'd favour the A359. Of course this will have the ramification that the 77W replacement will likely be with the same manufacturer as the 772 replacement - so it's either 787-10 and 777-8 (really can't see NZ doing 777-9 which sits between 777-300ER and the 747) or A350-900 and A350-1000; and I think the deciding factor is whether NZ want to keep the fleet structure the way it is (i.e. 772 replacement being a jack of all trades again) or shake things up.
ZK-NBT wrote:TheLifehouse wrote:Anyone know how the repainting is going?
My understanding is that there is still 1 772, 1 ATR and a handful of Dash 8 Q300s still in the old livery while ZK-OKF is in Singapore currently being repainted (Please correct me if I'm wrong)
It would be also great to know which specific Q300s are still in the old livery.
Any info would be appreciated.
2 772’s OKG/H. Should be done by DEC. OKF is in SIN now.
No idea which specific and how many Q300’s probably 5-6 left in the old livery.
I think 1 ATR left which won’t be repainted as it will be retired soon. I can’t remember which one OTOH.
ZK-NBT wrote:Mr AirNZ wrote:777ER wrote:First picture is on twitter of ZK-NNA sitting outside the hanger. Possibly going to wear the All Black livery
The photo on twitter is NNB. NNA is already fully painted.
Painted in what that’s the question? When is delivery expected?
ZK-NBT wrote:cchan wrote:Saw on Flightradar24 that NZ6092 is scheduled PAE-AKL on 15/09. Wondering which aircraft will this be?
789 ZK-NZN, unless NZQ is getting delivered first, both due in the next wee while.
qf789 wrote:Air New Zealand engineering team will do a customer walk around today on ZK-NZQ, where teams inspect both interior and exterior of the aircraft
https://twitter.com/philipkirk6/status/ ... 2471134208
PA515 wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:cchan wrote:Saw on Flightradar24 that NZ6092 is scheduled PAE-AKL on 15/09. Wondering which aircraft will this be?
789 ZK-NZN, unless NZQ is getting delivered first, both due in the next wee while.
ZK-NZQ will be delivered first.qf789 wrote:Air New Zealand engineering team will do a customer walk around today on ZK-NZQ, where teams inspect both interior and exterior of the aircraft
https://twitter.com/philipkirk6/status/ ... 2471134208
PA515
NZ6 wrote:DavidJ08 wrote:One argument for A359 for the 772 replacement: the 772 at present is a jack of all trades in the NZ fleet, and does anything and everything (North America, EZE, Asia, Pacific) and is a universal backup aircraft. If it is a straight-up 772 replacement then it will likely stay in the 300-320 seat range, which really means A350-900 and 787-10 (as the 777-8 is closer to the 777-300ER size while the 777-9 is even bigger), and the 787-10 lacks range so likely won't be able to North America and EZE.
If NZ is indeed looking for a direct replacement of the 772 (300-320 seat versatile workhorse) then I'd favour the A359. Of course this will have the ramification that the 77W replacement will likely be with the same manufacturer as the 772 replacement - so it's either 787-10 and 777-8 (really can't see NZ doing 777-9 which sits between 777-300ER and the 747) or A350-900 and A350-1000; and I think the deciding factor is whether NZ want to keep the fleet structure the way it is (i.e. 772 replacement being a jack of all trades again) or shake things up.
Good post and you're not wrong.
Luxon was clear early on in the piece stating NZ would first need to evaluate the sort of missions it would be deployed on.
This to me says we're not just looking at replacing the 772 with a newer model which is similar in size but lighter and more fuel efficient but instead undertaking a more long-term widebody fleet review.
So it's about working out where you want to fly, how often you want to fly and what crunching some expected PAX numbers then working out what aircraft best suits your needs.
When I do that, I agree with you the new generation 777's are simply too big and the 787-10 won't offer the legs of the A350 brings to the table.
We may also see something similar to the 787's with two configurations. Something more dense for your 10-12 hour legs HKG/YVR and something more premium focused for ORD/NYC etc
ZK-NBT wrote:PA515 wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:
789 ZK-NZN, unless NZQ is getting delivered first, both due in the next wee while.
ZK-NZQ will be delivered first.qf789 wrote:Air New Zealand engineering team will do a customer walk around today on ZK-NZQ, where teams inspect both interior and exterior of the aircraft
https://twitter.com/philipkirk6/status/ ... 2471134208
PA515
There’s some conflicting info on the net as to which will be delivered first which isn’t surprising given how often NZ take 2 aircraft let alone long haul frames in the same week.
qf789 wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:PA515 wrote:
ZK-NZQ will be delivered first.
PA515
There’s some conflicting info on the net as to which will be delivered first which isn’t surprising given how often NZ take 2 aircraft let alone long haul frames in the same week.
NZQ has had its B1 and B2 flights plus its C1 and C2 flights where as NZN has only had its B1 and B2 flights, no customer flights as of yet so it will probably be NZQ that is delivered first
PA515 wrote:qf789 wrote:ZK-NBT wrote:
There’s some conflicting info on the net as to which will be delivered first which isn’t surprising given how often NZ take 2 aircraft let alone long haul frames in the same week.
NZQ has had its B1 and B2 flights plus its C1 and C2 flights where as NZN has only had its B1 and B2 flights, no customer flights as of yet so it will probably be NZQ that is delivered first
It appears ZK-NZN is on delivery as NZ6092 as the Mode S Code on FR24 for ANZ6092 (C8273F) is the Mode S Code on the CAA register for ZK-NZN. Weird.
http://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ6092/1de0a571
PA515
qf789 wrote:NZ to make more changes to schedules/network tomorrow due to mainly 787 engine issues
cutting SGN from 23 Oct
HND will not operate for entire NW18/19 season
https://twitter.com/AvWeekScho/status/1 ... 8963948544
An aeroplane crew with a "high workload" mistook a wet runway for one that was merely damp, landing dangerously close to the end of it, an investigation has found.
The aircraft's operator, Virgin Australia, had changed its policy on landings from treating damp runways as wet ones to treating them as dry ones several months before the incident.
Were it not for the crew's decision to slow down for landing sooner than normal, the plane likely would have skidded off the last 5 metres of a short, rarely-used runway at Christchurch Airport.
...