dmorbust
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Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:58 pm

Other threads talk about the inherent advantages or disadvantages of each major carrier's hub network, so I put this list together to try to illustrate the major differences between DL's, AA's, & UA's hubs. I believe most of DL's outperformance can be explained by the fact that they enjoy over 70% market share and no alternative airport competition at each of their four biggest hubs.

Below you can see each carrier's largest hubs by annual passenger traffic, market share at that airport, as well as my commentary if there is an alternative airport in that market (but XXX airport). I mostly used 2017 or rolling 2018 data where I could find it online, so please let me know if any are incorrect. Long story short, DL enjoys incredible pricing power over 132+ million passengers per year, something UA is nowhere close to (AA could be, were it not for DAL & FLL).

DL:
  1. ATL - 73% - 65M out of 104M
  2. MSP - 71% - 26M out of 38M
  3. DTW - 74% - 25M out of 35M
  4. SLC - 70% - 16.5M out 24M
  5. JFK - 27% - 16M out of 59M (but EWR LGA)
  6. LGA - 40% - 12M out of 30M (but EWR JFK)
  7. LAX - 17% - 14.5M out of 85M
  8. SEA - 22% - 10M out of 47M
UA:
  1. ORD - 45% - 36M out of 80M (but MDW)
  2. IAH - 79% - 33.5M out of 40.7M (but HOU)
  3. EWR - 65.9% - 28.5M out of 43M (but LGA, JFK)
  4. DEN - 42% - 25.9M out of 62M
  5. SFO - 45% - 22M out of 56M
  6. IAD - 63.9% (but DCA) - 14M out of 23M
  7. LAX - 15% - 12.75M out of 85M
AA:
  1. DFW - 85.4% - 57M out of 67M (but DAL)
  2. CLT - 89% - 41M out of 46M
  3. MIA - 68% - 30M out of 44M (but FLL)
  4. ORD - 35% - 25M out of 80M (but MDW)
  5. PHL - 71.3% - 21M out of 29.5M
  6. PHX - 46% - 20M out of 44M
  7. DCA - 49.2% - 12M out of 23m (but IAD)
  8. LAX - 19% - 16.5M out of 85M
  9. LGA - 27.5% - 8M out of 30M (but EWR JFK)
  10. JFK - 12% - 7M out of 59M (but EWR LGA)
 
RobertS975
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:19 pm

I don't know how to interpret this data. I think we need to consider what percentage of the pax count is connecting vs O/D. I have been a Delta Diamond Medallion since its inception (and Platinum for a decade prior to that) and I have been to ATL over 100 times, but only once did I actually leave the airport! MSP, many dozens of times, but I have never left the airport. DTW, dozens of connections, but have never left the airport. SLC, many dozens of connections, only once as an O/D. But have flown them to LAX, SFO and SEA, always as a destination. JFK and LGA, mixed... probably a majority of those were a connection, but not overwhelming.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:25 pm

dmorbust wrote:
I believe most of DL's outperformance can be explained by the fact that they enjoy over 70% market share and no alternative airport competition at each of their four biggest hubs.


No, that's not it. ATL, DTW and MSP (all going back pre-merger) get the majority of traffic as connections. 'Dominating' a ~27% share doesn't lead to outsize profitability. One really needs to think of xxx-ATL-yyy as competing with non-stops xxx-yyy AND EVERY OTHER CONCEIVABLE CONNECTION xxx-whatever-yyy.

Other than ATL, Delta's 'dominance' is of not-large O&D markets. Domestic O&D rank of U.S. airports, 12-months ended 6/17:

ATL, #6
MSP, #16 (and less than 60% the size of ATL)
DTW, #20
SLC, #27

IMHO, Delta's profitability comes out of labor productivity. Look at revenue per employee and ASMs per employee.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:32 pm

dmorbust wrote:

DL:
  1. ATL - 73% - 65M out of 104M


I do not understand what you have done here. 65/104*100 = 62.5, not 73.

Is the 65 figure correct? Should that be 75M instead? That would be nearer to 73%.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:56 pm

Some things to consider



https://seekingalpha.com/article/416777 ... advantages

"Using DOT data, the revenue growth in Delta's focus cities could amount to between $250 and $400 million in additional revenue for 2018 based on trends in 2017."

"Delta gains more than half of its system passenger revenues from local passengers that originate or terminate their journeys with Delta in one of its eight US hub airports. Thus, less half of its revenue comes from connecting passengers in the nearly 300 additional cities that Delta and the Delta Connection carriers serve in the US and around the world."

"Delta is the #1 or #2 carrier in 55 of the top markets"

https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-ame ... rofitable/
"the carrier’s Amex partnership also helped its revenue numbers. With more than one million credit card accounts opened and $3 billion in revenue in 2017, the Delta Amex cards helped the airline boost earnings significantly.

https://skift.com/2018/01/23/united-cov ... -s-cities/
"United Airlines is significantly underperforming its competitors at its hubs in Chicago, Denver and Houston"

"“Our international gateways have higher profit margins — about seven points higher — than our competitors,” United President Scott Kirby said during an investor event coinciding with United’s fourth quarter earnings call. “And Chicago, Denver and Houston, despite being big markets, despite being well-positioned geographically, have profit margins that are about 10 points lower than our competitors mid-continent hubs.”"

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/05/ ... a-but.aspx
"In 2017, American's adjusted pre-tax margin was 9.1%, compared to 13.2% for Delta Air Lines. (2017 wasn't even a particularly good year for Delta.) Based on American Airlines' earnings-per-share forecast for 2018, it appears that the margin gap relative to Delta may widen further this year."

"Last fall, American Airlines CEO Doug Parker told investors that a big reason for the margin gap was that 40% of Delta's flights touch its hub in Atlanta. Atlanta is the largest airline hub in the world and it is extremely profitable. Parker noted that American Airlines has a very strong hub nearby in Charlotte, but it accounts for a much smaller proportion of American's total revenue."

April 2017 through March 2018
Net Profit Margin (in M)
DL-$3,532
AA-$2,448
UA-$2,066


BTW you can break down revenue by hub using the DOT data. It will give you a better in-depth analysis:
https://www.transtats.bts.gov/Tables.as ... n%20Survey
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enilria
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:01 pm

vhtje wrote:
dmorbust wrote:

DL:
  1. ATL - 73% - 65M out of 104M


I do not understand what you have done here. 65/104*100 = 62.5, not 73.

Is the 65 figure correct? Should that be 75M instead? That would be nearer to 73%.

Same question here.

Also of note, these shares are onboard traffic, not O&D share which would be more meaningful if the goal is to reflect hub passenger loyalty.

DL does better because they are more aggressive about eliminating self-competition, have some technology advantages in the customer experience side, and are very good at revenue management/capacity micro-management.
 
SESGDL
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:03 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
dmorbust wrote:
I believe most of DL's outperformance can be explained by the fact that they enjoy over 70% market share and no alternative airport competition at each of their four biggest hubs.


No, that's not it. ATL, DTW and MSP (all going back pre-merger) get the majority of traffic as connections. 'Dominating' a ~27% share doesn't lead to outsize profitability. One really needs to think of xxx-ATL-yyy as competing with non-stops xxx-yyy AND EVERY OTHER CONCEIVABLE CONNECTION xxx-whatever-yyy.

Other than ATL, Delta's 'dominance' is of not-large O&D markets. Domestic O&D rank of U.S. airports, 12-months ended 6/17:

ATL, #6
MSP, #16 (and less than 60% the size of ATL)
DTW, #20
SLC, #27

IMHO, Delta's profitability comes out of labor productivity. Look at revenue per employee and ASMs per employee.


This is not accurate. DL's DTW and MSP operations are majority O&D, not majority connecting. Also, while DTW and MSP are not as large as markets like CHI, NYC or San Francisco, DL's having more than 70% of the marketshare at these airports means it generates higher revenues than AA does comparatively at its ORD hub, in spite of it being a much larger market. All of the large markets are segmented, which means that DL's able to dominate the smaller markets and still generate comparable or higher revenues than carriers operating hubs in the largest cities.

DL's dominance of ATL, MSP, DTW and SLC has A LOT to do with DL's better performance against its peers.

Jeremy
 
rta
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:13 pm

dmorbust wrote:
Long story short, DL enjoys incredible pricing power over 132+ million passengers per year


I'm not sure if this is correct. Many of the people that connect through a DL hub have options on other airlines.

Additionally, I would expect the largest metro areas to have more competition. Most of Delta's hubs are not in the largest cities of the country, except for Atlanta, which has really good infrastructure, location, weather, and home market (due in part to failures from Southwest).
 
cvgComair
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:23 pm

enilria wrote:
vhtje wrote:
dmorbust wrote:

DL:
  1. ATL - 73% - 65M out of 104M


I do not understand what you have done here. 65/104*100 = 62.5, not 73.

Is the 65 figure correct? Should that be 75M instead? That would be nearer to 73%.

Same question here.

Also of note, these shares are onboard traffic, not O&D share which would be more meaningful if the goal is to reflect hub passenger loyalty.

DL does better because they are more aggressive about eliminating self-competition, have some technology advantages in the customer experience side, and are very good at revenue management/capacity micro-management.

It looks like the 73% and 65M are the percentage for mainline only flights for June 2017 - May 2018, while the 104M is the total passengers at the airport for 2017.

@dmorbust, you need to use the total passengers carried for June 2017 - May 2018, not 2017. For ATL, the correct entry should be:
  1. ATL - 72.5% - 65.0M out of 89.6M
This applies for all the entries.
 
sargester
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:25 pm

Source for the OPs data?
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:56 pm

Can I add that while I appreciate this may have taken time to put together, it would be more helpful to give the % of Total city network population than just say (but LGA, JFK) or (but DAL).

Can you just say what % of DFW + DAL goes on AA?
 
dmorbust
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:05 pm

cvgComair wrote:
enilria wrote:
vhtje wrote:

I do not understand what you have done here. 65/104*100 = 62.5, not 73.

Is the 65 figure correct? Should that be 75M instead? That would be nearer to 73%.

Same question here.

Also of note, these shares are onboard traffic, not O&D share which would be more meaningful if the goal is to reflect hub passenger loyalty.

DL does better because they are more aggressive about eliminating self-competition, have some technology advantages in the customer experience side, and are very good at revenue management/capacity micro-management.

It looks like the 73% and 65M are the percentage for mainline only flights for June 2017 - May 2018, while the 104M is the total passengers at the airport for 2017.

@dmorbust, you need to use the total passengers carried for June 2017 - May 2018, not 2017. For ATL, the correct entry should be:
  1. ATL - 72.5% - 65.0M out of 89.6M
This applies for all the entries.


Apologies, I see I did not include DL's connection carriers like Endeavor. In that case, DL's dominance at ATL is even greater at close to 80% market share last month: http://www.atl.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... y-2018.pdf

Thanks for pointing out this error. I believe my other entries did take the connection carriers into consideration, but again most were manually done using airport data wherever available so there may be other mistakes, sorry in advance.
Last edited by dmorbust on Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
cheapgreek
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:09 pm

DL also has the least unionized work force, most southern companies are not fond of unions and DL has an advantage in having a lower payroll.
 
kavok
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:11 pm

The other thing to remember is that not all OD is created equal.

As a surprise to no one, FLL, LAS, and MCO all have higher OD numbers than MSP or DTW. But the OD from MSP/DTW generates much higher revenue per pax because a significant portion of the OD to FLL/LAS/MCO is LCC tourist traffic flying at low fares.
 
klm617
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:13 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
dmorbust wrote:
I believe most of DL's outperformance can be explained by the fact that they enjoy over 70% market share and no alternative airport competition at each of their four biggest hubs.


No, that's not it. ATL, DTW and MSP (all going back pre-merger) get the majority of traffic as connections. 'Dominating' a ~27% share doesn't lead to outsize profitability. One really needs to think of xxx-ATL-yyy as competing with non-stops xxx-yyy AND EVERY OTHER CONCEIVABLE CONNECTION xxx-whatever-yyy.

Other than ATL, Delta's 'dominance' is of not-large O&D markets. Domestic O&D rank of U.S. airports, 12-months ended 6/17:

ATL, #6
MSP, #16 (and less than 60% the size of ATL)
DTW, #20
SLC, #27

IMHO, Delta's profitability comes out of labor productivity. Look at revenue per employee and ASMs per employee.



Delta has control over pricing at all it's major hubs so. Pricing out of Delta hubs is always marginable higher than that of other airline hubs. ORD for instance is in most cases 50% less for international travel compared to DTW or MSP. As far a employee productivity I agree being Delta employee's for the most part are non-union they can push them around how ever they feel meaning yes they have more control over what their workforce does because employees have little or no repercussions if they are terminated.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
dmorbust
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:16 pm

vhtje wrote:
dmorbust wrote:

DL:
  1. ATL - 73% - 65M out of 104M


I do not understand what you have done here. 65/104*100 = 62.5, not 73.

Is the 65 figure correct? Should that be 75M instead? That would be nearer to 73%.


Apologies, I see I did not include DL's connection carriers like Endeavor. In that case, DL's dominance at ATL is even greater at close to 80% market share last month: http://www.atl.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... y-2018.pdf
Thanks for pointing out this error.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:18 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
dmorbust wrote:
I believe most of DL's outperformance can be explained by the fact that they enjoy over 70% market share and no alternative airport competition at each of their four biggest hubs.


No, that's not it. ATL, DTW and MSP (all going back pre-merger) get the majority of traffic as connections. 'Dominating' a ~27% share doesn't lead to outsize profitability. One really needs to think of xxx-ATL-yyy as competing with non-stops xxx-yyy AND EVERY OTHER CONCEIVABLE CONNECTION xxx-whatever-yyy.

Other than ATL, Delta's 'dominance' is of not-large O&D markets. Domestic O&D rank of U.S. airports, 12-months ended 6/17:

ATL, #6
MSP, #16 (and less than 60% the size of ATL)
DTW, #20
SLC, #27

IMHO, Delta's profitability comes out of labor productivity. Look at revenue per employee and ASMs per employee.


Delta has much lower operating expenses. IE they connect people in cheaper airports. Delta rakes in the cash connecting people in SLC, DTW, and MSP while United spends a fortune connecting people in EWR , SFO etc. Deltas expenses are just lowering operating from their hubs. Delta has figured out the maximum profit. You focus out of the A airports not the A+ airports but just laugh all the way to the bank in a less congested environment that is cheaper to operate from.
Last edited by slcdeltarumd11 on Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
bob75013
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:20 pm

dmorbust wrote:
vhtje wrote:
dmorbust wrote:

DL:
  1. ATL - 73% - 65M out of 104M


I do not understand what you have done here. 65/104*100 = 62.5, not 73.

Is the 65 figure correct? Should that be 75M instead? That would be nearer to 73%.


Apologies, I see I did not include DL's connection carriers like Endeavor. In that case, DL's dominance at ATL is even greater at close to 80% market share last month: http://www.atl.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... y-2018.pdf
Thanks for pointing out this error.


Did you also "forget" to include United's and AA's regional carriers?
 
dmorbust
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:21 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
dmorbust wrote:
I believe most of DL's outperformance can be explained by the fact that they enjoy over 70% market share and no alternative airport competition at each of their four biggest hubs.


No, that's not it. ATL, DTW and MSP (all going back pre-merger) get the majority of traffic as connections. 'Dominating' a ~27% share doesn't lead to outsize profitability. One really needs to think of xxx-ATL-yyy as competing with non-stops xxx-yyy AND EVERY OTHER CONCEIVABLE CONNECTION xxx-whatever-yyy.

Other than ATL, Delta's 'dominance' is of not-large O&D markets. Domestic O&D rank of U.S. airports, 12-months ended 6/17:

ATL, #6
MSP, #16 (and less than 60% the size of ATL)
DTW, #20
SLC, #27

IMHO, Delta's profitability comes out of labor productivity. Look at revenue per employee and ASMs per employee.


Delta has much lower operating expenses. IE they connect people in cheaper airports. Delta rakes in the cash connecting people in SLC, DTW, and MSP while United spends a fortune connecting people in EWR , SFO etc. Deltas expenses are just lowering operating from their hubs. Delta has figured out the maximum profit. You operate out of the A airports not the A+ airports but just laugh all the way to the bank in a less congested environment that is cheaper to operate from.


Yes, and apparently DL has more regional monopoly routes: https://skift.com/2017/07/14/delta-hold ... e-markets/
Delta enjoys a monopoly on about 60 percent of its regional markets, according to Stifel’s analysis, compared with 53 percent at American and 41 percent at United. The market data are from Diio, an aviation data firm.

“We suspect that the Atlanta advantage along with Delta having much higher market shares in its other hubs—albeit hubs located in secondary markets—is showing up in the form of better revenue performance from its regional operation,” DeNardi wrote in his July 9 report.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:29 pm

rta wrote:
dmorbust wrote:
Long story short, DL enjoys incredible pricing power over 132+ million passengers per year


I'm not sure if this is correct. Many of the people that connect through a DL hub have options on other airlines.

Additionally, I would expect the largest metro areas to have more competition. Most of Delta's hubs are not in the largest cities of the country, except for Atlanta, which has really good infrastructure, location, weather, and home market (due in part to failures from Southwest).


This is a lot of the issue.
ORD has virtually 3 hubs between UA, AA and WN at MDW. DFW has two hubs between AA @ DFW & WN at DAL. UA competes with a large WN hub at HOU. That takes a lot of pricing power out of the hands of AA & UA. To be fair, DL is also a lot further along the merger arc than UA & AA which provides some fleet and resourcing benefits. DL is also doing a lot of good things they are benefiting from. I can see a future where if AA doesn't show some improvement or a plan to get there, Doug Parker will start feeling like he's on a very warm seat.
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:12 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
rta wrote:
dmorbust wrote:
Long story short, DL enjoys incredible pricing power over 132+ million passengers per year


I'm not sure if this is correct. Many of the people that connect through a DL hub have options on other airlines.

Additionally, I would expect the largest metro areas to have more competition. Most of Delta's hubs are not in the largest cities of the country, except for Atlanta, which has really good infrastructure, location, weather, and home market (due in part to failures from Southwest).


This is a lot of the issue.
ORD has virtually 3 hubs between UA, AA and WN at MDW. DFW has two hubs between AA @ DFW & WN at DAL. UA competes with a large WN hub at HOU. That takes a lot of pricing power out of the hands of AA & UA. To be fair, DL is also a lot further along the merger arc than UA & AA which provides some fleet and resourcing benefits. DL is also doing a lot of good things they are benefiting from. I can see a future where if AA doesn't show some improvement or a plan to get there, Doug Parker will start feeling like he's on a very warm seat.


UA merged 8 years ago, that excuse is getting a tad stale and 5 years now for AA and US airwys
 
dmorbust
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:19 pm

bob75013 wrote:
dmorbust wrote:
vhtje wrote:

I do not understand what you have done here. 65/104*100 = 62.5, not 73.

Is the 65 figure correct? Should that be 75M instead? That would be nearer to 73%.


Apologies, I see I did not include DL's connection carriers like Endeavor. In that case, DL's dominance at ATL is even greater at close to 80% market share last month: http://www.atl.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... y-2018.pdf
Thanks for pointing out this error.


Did you also "forget" to include United's and AA's regional carriers?


As I stated in my first post, I used data wherever I could find it online - mostly directly from airport authority statistics - and invite anyone to correct any errors as in the case with ATL. That said, this error actually further demonstrates my point as DL actually has even more dominance at DL. For the other airports and carriers, as I stated in a previous reply I believe I did include connection carriers, but again I invite anyone to correct any numbers if they look off.
 
iadadd
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:29 pm

Kind of shocking that ATL can manage 39 million non-Delta passengers. Then again, I guess it benefits from being the largest CSA with only 1 major airport
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:46 pm

It’s because DL has hubs in smaller markets than AA or UA and as such con charge whatever they want.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
dmorbust
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:50 pm

iadadd wrote:
Kind of shocking that ATL can manage 39 million non-Delta passengers. Then again, I guess it benefits from being the largest CSA with only 1 major airport


As has been noted a few times above, I messed up ATL's numbers. Delta actually has almost 80% market share at ATL, having carried over 83 million passengers between mainline and its connection carriers dba Delta Connection, out of 103.9 million total passengers at ATL in 2017 (http://www.atl.com/wp-content/uploads/2 ... evised.pdf).

Mods - can you please edit my initial post to reflect these numbers?
 
jagraham
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:50 pm

DL is a lot farther along in the RJ restructuring. The 50 and 37 seaters have horrible CASM.
UA is within shouting distance because of its 77A domestic aircraft and more international flying
 
gsg013
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Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:17 pm

rta wrote:
dmorbust wrote:
Long story short, DL enjoys incredible pricing power over 132+ million passengers per year


I'm not sure if this is correct. Many of the people that connect through a DL hub have options on other airlines.

Additionally, I would expect the largest metro areas to have more competition. Most of Delta's hubs are not in the largest cities of the country, except for Atlanta, which has really good infrastructure, location, weather, and home market (due in part to failures from Southwest).


I can speak for myself and my family. Living in Nashville and having family in Northern New Jersey I could easily fly regularly nonstop BNA-EWR-BNA on UA or now WN. I chose not to do it and chose to pay more for a few reasons. Either I fly BNA-LGA and suck up the extra drive from NJ or go BNA-DTW-EWR or BNA-ATL-EWR and fly DL

1. DL is more reliable. (I have had too many issues with UA and AA to the point where I am done with that Airline)
2. DL provides a bit of a more premium experience than any of the other US carries I have flown. I am willing to pay a bit more to fly DL on the same route when UA or AA have the same flight similar time with a lower price.
3. When things go wrong on DL they tend to fix it quickly and remedy the situation.

Generally if I know that even with a connection it will take me 4 hours to get BNA to EWR it takes 4 hours on DL. on the others it could take me 2.5 hrs or it could take 6-24 if things get messed up.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:19 pm

As has already been said, its a combination of

1. Having hubs in secondary markets outside of NYC/LAX and possibly ATL (depending on if you characterize Atlanta as in the same class as New York City/Los Angeles/Chicago/Dallas Fort Worth/Houston/Miami etc).

2. Phasing out 50 seat RJ's to achieve better CASM, this advantage should grow once the A220's come online

3. Having the least unionized workforce of not just the US3, but all of the US airlines (possibly, I'm not entirely sure if that is accurate)

4. Having arguably the best jv partners and continuing to pursue new jv relationships

5. Routing almost half of their traffic through the ATL megahub
Last edited by ADrum23 on Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:21 pm

jagraham wrote:
DL is a lot farther along in the RJ restructuring. The 50 and 37 seaters have horrible CASM.
UA is within shouting distance because of its 77A domestic aircraft and more international flying


UA still has a lot of upgauging to do though, their interior hubs (ORD, IAH and DEN) are still very RJ focused.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3132
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:31 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
As has already been said, its a combination of

1. Having hubs in secondary markets outside of NYC/LAX and possibly ATL (depending on if you characterize Atlanta as in the same class as New York City/Los Angeles/Chicago/Dallas Fort Worth/Houston/Miami etc).

2. Phasing out 50 seat RJ's to achieve better CASM, this advantage should grow once the A220's come online

3. Having the least unionized workforce of not just the US3, but all of the US airlines (possibly, I'm not entirely sure if that is accurate)

4. Having arguably the best jv partners and continuing to pursue new jv relationships

5. Routing almost half of their traffic through the ATL megahub


Not one of the US3 is phasing out the 50 seat RJ. Delta is right sizing the fleet to match what it feels is the market demands for 50 seat flying. Delta has not once said that all the CR2s are going
From my cold, dead hands
 
klm617
Posts: 4480
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:36 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
As has already been said, its a combination of

1. Having hubs in secondary markets outside of NYC/LAX and possibly ATL (depending on if you characterize Atlanta as in the same class as New York City/Los Angeles/Chicago/Dallas Fort Worth/Houston/Miami etc).

2. Phasing out 50 seat RJ's to achieve better CASM, this advantage should grow once the A220's come online

3. Having the least unionized workforce of not just the US3, but all of the US airlines (possibly, I'm not entirely sure if that is accurate)

4. Having arguably the best jv partners and continuing to pursue new jv relationships

5. Routing almost half of their traffic through the ATL megahub


Not one of the US3 is phasing out the 50 seat RJ. Delta is right sizing the fleet to match what it feels is the market demands for 50 seat flying. Delta has not once said that all the CR2s are going



Right sizing the fleet/market to what Delta wants to charge not right sizing fleet/market to customer demand.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 4480
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:41 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
It’s because DL has hubs in smaller markets than AA or UA and as such con charge whatever they want.


Yes and because it has it's hubs at secondary airports it can better strong arm the airport authority and governments in those markets to keep the competition at a minimum because Delta uses it's power to leverage all decisions at those airports in their favor unlike airports in cities like Chicago, New York, Texas and California. The only other airport I see where a carrier can hold power over the airport to limit competition is possibly CLT.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3452
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:52 pm

gsg013 wrote:
I can speak for myself and my family. Living in Nashville and having family in Northern New Jersey I could easily fly regularly nonstop BNA-EWR-BNA on UA or now WN. I chose not to do it and chose to pay more for a few reasons. Either I fly BNA-LGA and suck up the extra drive from NJ or go BNA-DTW-EWR or BNA-ATL-EWR and fly DL

1. DL is more reliable. (I have had too many issues with UA and AA to the point where I am done with that Airline)
2. DL provides a bit of a more premium experience than any of the other US carries I have flown. I am willing to pay a bit more to fly DL on the same route when UA or AA have the same flight similar time with a lower price.
3. When things go wrong on DL they tend to fix it quickly and remedy the situation.

Generally if I know that even with a connection it will take me 4 hours to get BNA to EWR it takes 4 hours on DL. on the others it could take me 2.5 hrs or it could take 6-24 if things get messed up.


And I generally avoid DL for those very same reasons. Their operations are less reliable than some airlines. Their product is inferior in general. And when things go wrong, they really go wrong, and they have proven themselves to care more about money than customers, going so far as to lie to their customers.

You see, one person's actions means nothing. Even large numbers of people mean little. Airlines are a commodity, and DL primarily makes more money because of a lack of competition in its network. Simple as that. Whether their choice of a lower O&D, less competitive, domestic-orientated network is a good long-term play is yet to played out. It's an advantage now, but things change.
 
winginit
Posts: 2559
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:11 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Their operations are less reliable than some airlines. Their product is inferior in general.


Add a bit more meat to the bones of that argument if you don't mind. Who is Delta less reliable than? Because every single objective source I've seen has their on-time performance and completion factor better than AA, UA, and WN for the full year 2017 and for YTD 2018. It's hard to argue with the facts there and they're clear as day.

And who is it that you think their product is inferior to now? Again, I think pretty objective sources whether they're JD Power or Consumer Reports have shown that Delta's onboard products and service are both superior to and more consistent than virtually every other airline in the country maybe with the exception of much smaller Alaska and Hawaiian.
 
4engines4lnghll
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:25 am

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:22 pm

Gosh, we need some good airline news to arise. These threads on who versus who with the US3 is getting soooooo old.
4engines4lnghll
 
AirCalSNA
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:35 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:00 am

Without crunching numbers and just looking at a map one can readily see that DL's hubs are spread out much more effectively across the continent.

I think DL also benefits from the odd business moves that UA and AA make. For example, DL's steady work on building a presence on the west coast; by contrast, AA bought up at least a couple of west coast airlines and ultimately abandoned their routes, seemingly without even trying to put up a fight. I'm an AAdvantage member but have a hard time figuring out why at this point!
 
msiebert09
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:35 am

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:02 am

35 posts on possibly flawed data? Wow...and, yes, this post is a waste of space.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:07 am

winginit wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Their operations are less reliable than some airlines. Their product is inferior in general.


Add a bit more meat to the bones of that argument if you don't mind. Who is Delta less reliable than? Because every single objective source I've seen has their on-time performance and completion factor better than AA, UA, and WN for the full year 2017 and for YTD 2018. It's hard to argue with the facts there and they're clear as day.

And who is it that you think their product is inferior to now? Again, I think pretty objective sources whether they're JD Power or Consumer Reports have shown that Delta's onboard products and service are both superior to and more consistent than virtually every other airline in the
country maybe with the exception of much smaller Alaska and Hawaiian.


DL’s product is inferior because it’s not NW. DL is unable to do anything right, in spite of being hands down the most profitable and arguably best run of the US3. Facts are meaningless when they are the reason that NW doesn’t exist anymore. Big bad Delta is awful in every way.

Jeremy
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2824
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:09 am

msiebert09 wrote:
35 posts on possibly flawed data? Wow...and, yes, this post is a waste of space.


How’s the data flawed? It may not be entirely accurate but the assertion is still reasonable and lends itself to some of the reasons that DL outperforms its peers.

Jeremy
 
jplatts
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:21 am

One big difference between DL and the other 2 big U.S. legacy carriers (AA and UA) is that ATL and LAX are the only DL hub airports that are also WN focus city airports, whereas AA and UA have most of their hubs in markets where WN has a focus city. WN also has a bigger presence at MDW, BWI, DEN, DAL, PHX, and HOU than it does at ATL or LAX. As such, DL doesn't face as much competition from WN at its hub airports.
 
jfern022
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:23 am

winginit wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Their operations are less reliable than some airlines. Their product is inferior in general.


Add a bit more meat to the bones of that argument if you don't mind. Who is Delta less reliable than? Because every single objective source I've seen has their on-time performance and completion factor better than AA, UA, and WN for the full year 2017 and for YTD 2018. It's hard to argue with the facts there and they're clear as day.

And who is it that you think their product is inferior to now? Again, I think pretty objective sources whether they're JD Power or Consumer Reports have shown that Delta's onboard products and service are both superior to and more consistent than virtually every other airline in the country maybe with the exception of much smaller Alaska and Hawaiian.


Cause we all know that NW was the model for running a good on-time operation!! :lol:

This says it allhttps://youtu.be/M-RwjNKP9PA
 
klm617
Posts: 4480
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:28 am

SESGDL wrote:
winginit wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Their operations are less reliable than some airlines. Their product is inferior in general.


Add a bit more meat to the bones of that argument if you don't mind. Who is Delta less reliable than? Because every single objective source I've seen has their on-time performance and completion factor better than AA, UA, and WN for the full year 2017 and for YTD 2018. It's hard to argue with the facts there and they're clear as day.

And who is it that you think their product is inferior to now? Again, I think pretty objective sources whether they're JD Power or Consumer Reports have shown that Delta's onboard products and service are both superior to and more consistent than virtually every other airline in the
country maybe with the exception of much smaller Alaska and Hawaiian.


DL’s product is inferior because it’s not NW. DL is unable to do anything right, in spite of being hands down the most profitable and arguably best run of the US3. Facts are meaningless when they are the reason that NW doesn’t exist anymore. Big bad Delta is awful in every way.

Jeremy



Delta does a lot of things right but for the investors not the customers. But they can afford to do that now as they as the competition has been thinned out by 50%. FNT and CAK are great examples of how consolidation has negatively effected the customer experience. The only markets that benefited are the major top 10 markets in the country while the rest of the nation pays for those cheap fares with higher than average fares. If airlines charged by the mile no matter what the origin and destination are things would be a whole lot different. Just because you live in a highly competitive market doesn't mean you are entitled to cheap airfares. Everyone should pay the same price for the same segment distance.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 4480
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:33 am

jfern022 wrote:
winginit wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Their operations are less reliable than some airlines. Their product is inferior in general.


Add a bit more meat to the bones of that argument if you don't mind. Who is Delta less reliable than? Because every single objective source I've seen has their on-time performance and completion factor better than AA, UA, and WN for the full year 2017 and for YTD 2018. It's hard to argue with the facts there and they're clear as day.

And who is it that you think their product is inferior to now? Again, I think pretty objective sources whether they're JD Power or Consumer Reports have shown that Delta's onboard products and service are both superior to and more consistent than virtually every other airline in the country maybe with the exception of much smaller Alaska and Hawaiian.


Cause we all know that NW was the model for running a good on-time operation!! :lol:

This says it allhttps://youtu.be/M-RwjNKP9PA


I will say this in all the time I flew NWA I never had an issue with missed connections or grossly late flights in my Delta experience it has been more the norm than the exception that the aircraft leaves the gate late rather than close to departure time but I have to admit it has gotten better but I still don't trust a connection on Delta.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
caljn
Posts: 247
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:37 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:42 am

ADrum23 wrote:
As has already been said, its a combination of

1. Having hubs in secondary markets outside of NYC/LAX and possibly ATL (depending on if you characterize Atlanta as in the same class as New York City/Los Angeles/Chicago/Dallas Fort Worth/Houston/Miami etc).

2. Phasing out 50 seat RJ's to achieve better CASM, this advantage should grow once the A220's come online

3. Having the least unionized workforce of not just the US3, but all of the US airlines (possibly, I'm not entirely sure if that is accurate)

4. Having arguably the best jv partners and continuing to pursue new jv relationships

5. Routing almost half of their traffic through the ATL megahub




So...regarding item 3, they have the least desirable compensation package of "US3"? I guess I won't be working for Delta.
I suspect the reputation of that carrier is becoming like that of Honda automobiles. People have been saying they're the best for so long it has become conventional wisdom, when in reality most other brands have caught up and are quite competitive.
Case in point, UA is trashed around here all the time but I find them to be perfectly fine. In fact the best in many years now, they have clearly "upped" their game.
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3452
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:00 am

winginit wrote:
Add a bit more meat to the bones of that argument if you don't mind. Who is Delta less reliable than? Because every single objective source I've seen has their on-time performance and completion factor better than AA, UA, and WN for the full year 2017 and for YTD 2018. It's hard to argue with the facts there and they're clear as day.

And who is it that you think their product is inferior to now? Again, I think pretty objective sources whether they're JD Power or Consumer Reports have shown that Delta's onboard products and service are both superior to and more consistent than virtually every other airline in the country maybe with the exception of much smaller Alaska and Hawaiian.


I'll provide more meat once others have to provide more meat for DL being superior operationally. You need to do some more research and also not take "facts" at face value where they mislead.

JD Power and CS are objective? Please. I base my beliefs on objective facts and subjective experiences of many carriers. They tell me DL's product is far from superior. You're free to believe otherwise of course.

SESGDL wrote:
DL’s product is inferior because it’s not NW. DL is unable to do anything right, in spite of being hands down the most profitable and arguably best run of the US3. Facts are meaningless when they are the reason that NW doesn’t exist anymore. Big bad Delta is awful in every way.

Jeremy

Don't continue to damage your reputation by debating immaturely. NW had a generally crap product, and of course it has absolutely nothing to do with how DL's product stacks up today.
 
jfern022
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:21 am

MSPNWA wrote:
winginit wrote:
Add a bit more meat to the bones of that argument if you don't mind. Who is Delta less reliable than? Because every single objective source I've seen has their on-time performance and completion factor better than AA, UA, and WN for the full year 2017 and for YTD 2018. It's hard to argue with the facts there and they're clear as day.

And who is it that you think their product is inferior to now? Again, I think pretty objective sources whether they're JD Power or Consumer Reports have shown that Delta's onboard products and service are both superior to and more consistent than virtually every other airline in the country maybe with the exception of much smaller Alaska and Hawaiian.


I'll provide more meat once others have to provide more meat for DL being superior operationally. You need to do some more research and also not take "facts" at face value where they mislead.

JD Power and CS are objective? Please. I base my beliefs on objective facts and subjective experiences of many carriers. They tell me DL's product is far from superior. You're free to believe otherwise of course.

SESGDL wrote:
DL’s product is inferior because it’s not NW. DL is unable to do anything right, in spite of being hands down the most profitable and arguably best run of the US3. Facts are meaningless when they are the reason that NW doesn’t exist anymore. Big bad Delta is awful in every way.

Jeremy

Don't continue to damage your reputation by debating immaturely. NW had a generally crap product, and of course it has absolutely nothing to do with how DL's product stacks up today.


I can say with absolute certainty, no one at Northwest knows what the word customer service even means.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3251
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:34 am

winginit wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Their operations are less reliable than some airlines. Their product is inferior in general.


Add a bit more meat to the bones of that argument if you don't mind. Who is Delta less reliable than? Because every single objective source I've seen has their on-time performance and completion factor better than AA, UA, and WN for the full year 2017 and for YTD 2018. It's hard to argue with the facts there and they're clear as day.

And who is it that you think their product is inferior to now? Again, I think pretty objective sources whether they're JD Power or Consumer Reports have shown that Delta's onboard products and service are both superior to and more consistent than virtually every other airline in the country maybe with the exception of much smaller Alaska and Hawaiian.


Well, they have 36 inch pitch FC on some of their aircraft. That's pretty awful. They use FCM to sell more of their FC and screw the elites, who are often left with exit row or comfort+ seating. They market Comfort+ as a separate class of service when it's just Y+. The pitch on Comfort+ are no better than the regular Y on B6. And since they are treated as a separate class, you can't always select them as an elite at the time of purchase. Their on board product in Y is better than AA/UA, but inferior to B6.

And worst of all, they consistently overprice their FC seating out of their hubs. Thank goodness mint entered so many of the transcon market or else we'd still be consistently seeing $1500+ FC pricing from JFK to SAN/SEA/LAS.

They make money because they have very dominating hubs. And they are really good at monetizing these hubs with programs like FCM. Only CLT and to a lesser degree DFW is comparable to DL's dominance at their hubs. If anything, it's pretty amazing UA does this well with no such dominating hubs at all.
 
gsg013
Posts: 519
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:13 am

klm617 wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
winginit wrote:

Add a bit more meat to the bones of that argument if you don't mind. Who is Delta less reliable than? Because every single objective source I've seen has their on-time performance and completion factor better than AA, UA, and WN for the full year 2017 and for YTD 2018. It's hard to argue with the facts there and they're clear as day.

And who is it that you think their product is inferior to now? Again, I think pretty objective sources whether they're JD Power or Consumer Reports have shown that Delta's onboard products and service are both superior to and more consistent than virtually every other airline in the
country maybe with the exception of much smaller Alaska and Hawaiian.


DL’s product is inferior because it’s not NW. DL is unable to do anything right, in spite of being hands down the most profitable and arguably best run of the US3. Facts are meaningless when they are the reason that NW doesn’t exist anymore. Big bad Delta is awful in every way.

Jeremy



Delta does a lot of things right but for the investors not the customers. But they can afford to do that now as they as the competition has been thinned out by 50%. FNT and CAK are great examples of how consolidation has negatively effected the customer experience. The only markets that benefited are the major top 10 markets in the country while the rest of the nation pays for those cheap fares with higher than average fares. If airlines charged by the mile no matter what the origin and destination are things would be a whole lot different. Just because you live in a highly competitive market doesn't mean you are entitled to cheap airfares. Everyone should pay the same price for the same segment distance.



You sound like a communist or socialist "Everyone should pay the same price" if that were the case airlines would simply abandon the routes with no competition as there would be no reward for flying them.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3027
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:34 am

winginit wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Their operations are less reliable than some airlines. Their product is inferior in general.

Add a bit more meat to the bones of that argument if you don't mind. Who is Delta less reliable than? Because every single objective source I've seen has their on-time performance and completion factor better than AA, UA, and WN for the full year 2017 and for YTD 2018. It's hard to argue with the facts there and they're clear as day.
And who is it that you think their product is inferior to now? Again, I think pretty objective sources whether they're JD Power or Consumer Reports have shown that Delta's onboard products and service are both superior to and more consistent than virtually every other airline in the country maybe with the exception of much smaller Alaska and Hawaiian.

An ex-NW union rep really misses an undeserved paycheck...

caljn wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
As has already been said, its a combination of
1. Having hubs in secondary markets outside of NYC/LAX and possibly ATL (depending on if you characterize Atlanta as in the same class as New York City/Los Angeles/Chicago/Dallas Fort Worth/Houston/Miami etc).
2. Phasing out 50 seat RJ's to achieve better CASM, this advantage should grow once the A220's come online
3. Having the least unionized workforce of not just the US3, but all of the US airlines (possibly, I'm not entirely sure if that is accurate)
4. Having arguably the best jv partners and continuing to pursue new jv relationships
5. Routing almost half of their traffic through the ATL megahub

So...regarding item 3, they have the least desirable compensation package of "US3"? I guess I won't be working for Delta.
I suspect the reputation of that carrier is becoming like that of Honda automobiles. People have been saying they're the best for so long it has become conventional wisdom, when in reality most other brands have caught up and are quite competitive.
Case in point, UA is trashed around here all the time but I find them to be perfectly fine. In fact the best in many years now, they have clearly "upped" their game.


It is quite a jump from "Having the least unionized workforce..." to "...they have the least desirable compensation package". Based on other posts - and airline employees I have met - AA and UA staff are usually fighting to catch-up with DL's offerings, not the other way around.

The only ones from Delta I see who are unhappy are 1) some long-time NW employees, who used their (reputedly ineffective) union as a "security blanket", particularly after being bombarded by constant union propaganda designed to create a conflict between employees and management; and 2) parasitic union "reps" who miss the extra cash they received from the unions, generally for stirring-up that conflict... :roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
alfa164
Posts: 3027
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Why Delta outearns UA & AA - dominating its largest hubs - market share data by US network hubs

Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:45 am

gsg013 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
DL’s product is inferior because it’s not NW. DL is unable to do anything right, in spite of being hands down the most profitable and arguably best run of the US3. Facts are meaningless when they are the reason that NW doesn’t exist anymore. Big bad Delta is awful in every way.
Jeremy

Delta does a lot of things right but for the investors not the customers. But they can afford to do that now as they as the competition has been thinned out by 50%. FNT and CAK are great examples of how consolidation has negatively effected the customer experience. The only markets that benefited are the major top 10 markets in the country while the rest of the nation pays for those cheap fares with higher than average fares. If airlines charged by the mile no matter what the origin and destination are things would be a whole lot different. Just because you live in a highly competitive market doesn't mean you are entitled to cheap airfares. Everyone should pay the same price for the same segment distance.

You sound like a communist or socialist "Everyone should pay the same price" if that were the case airlines would simply abandon the routes with no competition as there would be no reward for flying them.


...or an inane Detroit troll who can's seem to confine himself to the DTW thread... :roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....

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