Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:03 am

Interesting they both announced this simultaneously. :stirthepot:
Also interesting that both would leave. One wonders if both really come back. WW seems less sure.


Icelandair's service between Cleveland and Iceland will end Oct. 31 and start again on Mar. 22. Wow Air is suspending service from Cleveland in late October.

Wow Air sent this statement to Fox 8:

"WOW air will not operate this winter flights due to operational, logistic and commercial reasons. Wow air is happy with the Cleveland route last summer and is currently looking at the possibility of returning in 2019. Dates have not been confirmed. The last flight is scheduled on October 26 and no flights have been cancelled."

Icelandair also sent a statment to Fox 8:

"Icelandair flights from Cleveland Hopkins will be suspended for the winter starting November 2. Flights will resume in March 2019."


https://fox8.com/2018/09/05/two-iceland ... ng-winter/
 
Antarius
Posts: 2508
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:39 am

Must be Lebron leaving
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
User avatar
FA9295
Posts: 1770
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:44 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:47 am

enilria wrote:
Interesting they both announced this simultaneously. :stirthepot:
Also interesting that both would leave. One wonders if both really come back. WW seems less sure.


Icelandair's service between Cleveland and Iceland will end Oct. 31 and start again on Mar. 22. Wow Air is suspending service from Cleveland in late October.

Wow Air sent this statement to Fox 8:

"WOW air will not operate this winter flights due to operational, logistic and commercial reasons. Wow air is happy with the Cleveland route last summer and is currently looking at the possibility of returning in 2019. Dates have not been confirmed. The last flight is scheduled on October 26 and no flights have been cancelled."

Icelandair also sent a statment to Fox 8:

"Icelandair flights from Cleveland Hopkins will be suspended for the winter starting November 2. Flights will resume in March 2019."


https://fox8.com/2018/09/05/two-iceland ... ng-winter/

This seems to be a common theme for these two carriers; making similar types of announcements simultaneously... Sucks for CLE, though... :?
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5360
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:52 am

Antarius wrote:
Must be Lebron leaving


too soon man . :spin:
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5360
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:53 am

Wow air is happy with the Cleveland route last summer and is currently looking at the possibility of returning in 2019.

Interesting choice of words...
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3064
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:55 am

What will Trego-Dugan do next?
.......
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2529
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:56 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Wow air is happy with the Cleveland route last summer and is currently looking at the possibility of returning in 2019.

Interesting choice of words...

Just like how the possibility of returning to MIA went...
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5103
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:57 am

Things might have been a lot different if only one of these carriers had started CLE rather than both of them. They split the CLE traffic and both were losers if one only of them had entered the CLE market then perhaps flights might have gone through the winter. Funny how MCI has been extended on FI for summer 2019 but nothing about CLE
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:02 am

enilria wrote:
Interesting they both announced this simultaneously. :stirthepot:
Also interesting that both would leave. One wonders if both really come back. WW seems less sure.


Icelandair's service between Cleveland and Iceland will end Oct. 31 and start again on Mar. 22. Wow Air is suspending service from Cleveland in late October.

Wow Air sent this statement to Fox 8:

"WOW air will not operate this winter flights due to operational, logistic and commercial reasons. Wow air is happy with the Cleveland route last summer and is currently looking at the possibility of returning in 2019. Dates have not been confirmed. The last flight is scheduled on October 26 and no flights have been cancelled."

Icelandair also sent a statment to Fox 8:

"Icelandair flights from Cleveland Hopkins will be suspended for the winter starting November 2. Flights will resume in March 2019."


https://fox8.com/2018/09/05/two-iceland ... ng-winter/


Uh...considering FI put a hard date in there, it’s hard to think they won’t. FI is not coming back ‘till mid-May to MCI and no one seems to be questioning 2019 there.

Oh wait, it’s a.net and we’re talking about CLE.
Last edited by izbtmnhd on Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:04 am

klm617 wrote:
Things might have been a lot different if only one of these carriers had started CLE rather than both of them. They split the CLE traffic and both were losers if one only of them had entered the CLE market then perhaps flights might have gone through the winter. Funny how MCI has been extended on FI for summer 2019 but nothing about CLE


Uh..what are you talking about? It’s scheduled to return on Mar. 22nd.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:06 am

Midwestindy wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Must be Lebron leaving


too soon man . :spin:


You should be excited Midwest. Pacers will finally get to their “NBA Finals”: the second round. :lol:
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2529
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:09 am

^^at least you could have quoted the right person if you came on this forum solely to bash another member
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1918
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:11 am

enilria wrote:
Interesting they both announced this simultaneously. :stirthepot:
Also interesting that both would leave.


They both didn't announce this simultaneously (we knew about WOW Air weeks ago) and in the case of Icelandair I wouldn't call a seasonal suspension as "leaving". "Leaving" to me inplies not coming back.
FLYi
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:12 am

stl07 wrote:
^^at least you could have quoted the right person if you came on this forum solely to bash another member


I did none of that. Can’t help it if it’s true about the Pacers though. :D
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2529
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:14 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
enilria wrote:
Interesting they both announced this simultaneously. :stirthepot:
Also interesting that both would leave. One wonders if both really come back. WW seems less sure.


Icelandair's service between Cleveland and Iceland will end Oct. 31 and start again on Mar. 22. Wow Air is suspending service from Cleveland in late October.

Wow Air sent this statement to Fox 8:

"WOW air will not operate this winter flights due to operational, logistic and commercial reasons. Wow air is happy with the Cleveland route last summer and is currently looking at the possibility of returning in 2019. Dates have not been confirmed. The last flight is scheduled on October 26 and no flights have been cancelled."

Icelandair also sent a statment to Fox 8:

"Icelandair flights from Cleveland Hopkins will be suspended for the winter starting November 2. Flights will resume in March 2019."


https://fox8.com/2018/09/05/two-iceland ... ng-winter/


Uh...considering FI put a hard date in there, it’s hard to think they won’t. FI is not coming back ‘till mid-May to MCI and no one seems to be questioning 2019 there.

Oh wait, it’s a.net and we’re talking about CLE.

This...
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2529
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:16 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
stl07 wrote:
^^at least you could have quoted the right person if you came on this forum solely to bash another member


I did none of that. Can’t help it if it’s true about the Pacers though. :D

Oh feel free to bash the pacers :lol: :lol:
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:21 am

Suspending for the winter is better than canceling service all together.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5360
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:25 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Must be Lebron leaving


too soon man . :spin:


You should be excited Midwest. Pacers will finally get to their “NBA Finals”: the second round. :lol:


I would be upset, but it's true!! lol
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Chemist
Posts: 761
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:44 am

I guess not too many Icelanders want to see the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame...
 
msycajun
Posts: 1130
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:13 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:20 am

Looks like FI is making big network changes. I'm not an expert on their network, but didn't they previously have only one large bank of flights each direction? Looks like there will be two banks now. A lot of the long RON's at outstations will be removed and additional frequency added to a number of routes (including several going 2 daily) to make it work:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/280431/icelandair-s19-network-expansions-as-of-06sep18/
 
727200
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:20 am

CLE not getting any love...
 
Runway28L
Posts: 2099
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:41 am

I wonder how advanced bookings were for this winter on both carriers. Maybe FI and WW didn't deem them satisfactory enough to continue operating into the low season?
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5103
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:22 am

izbtmnhd wrote:
enilria wrote:
Interesting they both announced this simultaneously. :stirthepot:
Also interesting that both would leave. One wonders if both really come back. WW seems less sure.


Icelandair's service between Cleveland and Iceland will end Oct. 31 and start again on Mar. 22. Wow Air is suspending service from Cleveland in late October.

Wow Air sent this statement to Fox 8:

"WOW air will not operate this winter flights due to operational, logistic and commercial reasons. Wow air is happy with the Cleveland route last summer and is currently looking at the possibility of returning in 2019. Dates have not been confirmed. The last flight is scheduled on October 26 and no flights have been cancelled."

Icelandair also sent a statment to Fox 8:

"Icelandair flights from Cleveland Hopkins will be suspended for the winter starting November 2. Flights will resume in March 2019."


https://fox8.com/2018/09/05/two-iceland ... ng-winter/


Uh...considering FI put a hard date in there, it’s hard to think they won’t. FI is not coming back ‘till mid-May to MCI and no one seems to be questioning 2019 there.

Oh wait, it’s a.net and we’re talking about CLE.


The schedule has already been announced for MCI for summer 2019 4 weekly on the 737 nothing has yet to be announced for CLE
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Someone83
Posts: 4904
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:37 am

Isn’t this just a seasonal closure? Was CLE ever intended as a year round destination in the first place?
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5786
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:44 am

Maybe WOW should try KEF-CMH in S19.

Btw what is happening with DFW-KEF? This has seen not only 2 but three carriers this summer (FI, WW and AA).
 
User avatar
SRQKEF
Posts: 1950
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:52 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Maybe WOW should try KEF-CMH in S19.

Btw what is happening with DFW-KEF? This has seen not only 2 but three carriers this summer (FI, WW and AA).


WW and AA are both seasonal while FI is year-round. I have no data to back it up but from what I've heard both FI and AA are doing good. I haven't heard anything about WW's performance on the route.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
User avatar
enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:30 am

flyPIT wrote:
enilria wrote:
Interesting they both announced this simultaneously. :stirthepot:
Also interesting that both would leave.


They both didn't announce this simultaneously (we knew about WOW Air weeks ago) and in the case of Icelandair I wouldn't call a seasonal suspension as "leaving". "Leaving" to me inplies not coming back.

So if you are at a party and you leave it means you can't/won't return? Semantics. The word leave does not express permanence.

"we knew about WOW Air weeks ago"
If so why did nobody post this info?
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:45 am

klm617 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
enilria wrote:
Interesting they both announced this simultaneously. :stirthepot:
Also interesting that both would leave. One wonders if both really come back. WW seems less sure.


Icelandair's service between Cleveland and Iceland will end Oct. 31 and start again on Mar. 22. Wow Air is suspending service from Cleveland in late October.

Wow Air sent this statement to Fox 8:

"WOW air will not operate this winter flights due to operational, logistic and commercial reasons. Wow air is happy with the Cleveland route last summer and is currently looking at the possibility of returning in 2019. Dates have not been confirmed. The last flight is scheduled on October 26 and no flights have been cancelled."

Icelandair also sent a statment to Fox 8:

"Icelandair flights from Cleveland Hopkins will be suspended for the winter starting November 2. Flights will resume in March 2019."


https://fox8.com/2018/09/05/two-iceland ... ng-winter/


Uh...considering FI put a hard date in there, it’s hard to think they won’t. FI is not coming back ‘till mid-May to MCI and no one seems to be questioning 2019 there.

Oh wait, it’s a.net and we’re talking about CLE.


The schedule has already been announced for MCI for summer 2019 4 weekly on the 737 nothing has yet to be announced for CLE


What are you talking about? It’s selling starting Mar 22nd on their website. Go check yourself.
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5103
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:48 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Maybe WOW should try KEF-CMH in S19.

Btw what is happening with DFW-KEF? This has seen not only 2 but three carriers this summer (FI, WW and AA).



Maybe but bear in mind CVG was also cut by WW. I would think that a CMH-LGW on DY would be best for CMH
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
OSL777FLYER
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 8:11 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:52 am

Seasonal closure. Does CLE really warrant a year-round service? This is what FI did in MSP several years ago. However, after a few years, more people started traveling due to short connection times at KEF.

In terms of time, e.g. getting to Oslo, Norway or Stockholm, Sweden from MSP. Icelandair is definitely the quickest solution.
 
plinth857
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:37 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:18 pm

Do these decisions affect the $500,000 per year each carrier gets from the airport/city at all?
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5103
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:37 pm

OSL777FLYER wrote:
Seasonal closure. Does CLE really warrant a year-round service? This is what FI did in MSP several years ago. However, after a few years, more people started traveling due to short connection times at KEF.

In terms of time, e.g. getting to Oslo, Norway or Stockholm, Sweden from MSP. Icelandair is definitely the quickest solution.


Yes I think there is defiantly enough traffic out of CLE for year round CLE service. Perhaps if we only see FI return in the summer of 2019 they will then go year round having the market to themselves.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5103
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:38 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
klm617 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

Uh...considering FI put a hard date in there, it’s hard to think they won’t. FI is not coming back ‘till mid-May to MCI and no one seems to be questioning 2019 there.

Oh wait, it’s a.net and we’re talking about CLE.


The schedule has already been announced for MCI for summer 2019 4 weekly on the 737 nothing has yet to be announced for CLE


What are you talking about? It’s selling starting Mar 22nd on their website. Go check yourself.


Sorry my bad didn't know it had been loaded already.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
User avatar
enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:43 pm

plinth857 wrote:
Do these decisions affect the $500,000 per year each carrier gets from the airport/city at all?

You would hope so, but probably not.


Looking at the WOW website:
For sale in Winter: STL, DTW, EWR, BWI, PIT, BOS, ORD, LAX, JFK, SFO
Not for sale in Winter and no resumption date: CVG, CLE, DFW
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1918
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:54 pm

enilria wrote:
"we knew about WOW Air weeks ago"
If so why did nobody post this info?

It was posted in the CLE thread about a month ago.
FLYi
 
User avatar
TheLion
Posts: 691
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:14 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:59 pm

enilria wrote:
plinth857 wrote:
Do these decisions affect the $500,000 per year each carrier gets from the airport/city at all?

You would hope so, but probably not.


I’d disagree here because the aim of the subsidy is to support the service. It’d be very poor negotiation to provide subsidy without service.

You’d expect that the subsidy be conditional for the maintenance of service according to the terms agreed (seasonal, year-round, 2-year minimum etc).
 
N766UA
Posts: 8339
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:59 pm

I think FI will be back; they said they would be, after all. The conbination of competition from Wow and their current financial issues probably contributed to their early suspension of previously year-round plans. It seems like a total tossup whether or not Wow will be back, but we all know the market can likely only support one carrier, and Ice Air seems to be in the lead right now. Supposedly their summer loads were in the 80’s, which isn’t half bad.
 
ILNFlyer
Posts: 523
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:04 pm

jmc1975 wrote:
What will Trego-Dugan do next?


Find a warmer clime to fly to in winter.
 
User avatar
enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:15 pm

flyPIT wrote:
enilria wrote:
"we knew about WOW Air weeks ago"
If so why did nobody post this info?

It was posted in the CLE thread about a month ago.

The media statements were released at the same time per the article. The fact they weren't selling it for Winter was a tip off, but it wasn't official until they put out a statement.
 
User avatar
enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:18 pm

TheLion wrote:
enilria wrote:
plinth857 wrote:
Do these decisions affect the $500,000 per year each carrier gets from the airport/city at all?

You would hope so, but probably not.


I’d disagree here because the aim of the subsidy is to support the service. It’d be very poor negotiation to provide subsidy without service.

You’d expect that the subsidy be conditional for the maintenance of service according to the terms agreed (seasonal, year-round, 2-year minimum etc).

So, the airlines see incentives as risk abatement. If taking the incentive requires the airline to operate a money losing route, then it is a risk increaser. For this reason most airports do not tie the incentive to the route operating a full year. I know TOL had incentives that didn't even require the airline to start flying...because one didn't and still got the incentive. That's an extreme case, but requiring they fly for a full year to get the money (apart from fee abatement) is also fairly unusual.
 
User avatar
enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 10274
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:20 pm

enilria wrote:
plinth857 wrote:
Do these decisions affect the $500,000 per year each carrier gets from the airport/city at all?

You would hope so, but probably not.


Looking at the WOW website:
For sale in Winter: STL, DTW, EWR, BWI, PIT, BOS, ORD, LAX, JFK, SFO
Not for sale in Winter and no resumption date: CVG, CLE, DFW

1) Does this mean the bank in KEF that required flights depart the USA at Midnight is gone for now?
2) Where are they hiding 2 planes for the Winter this just freed up? Maintenance?
 
TWFlyGuy
Posts: 427
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:21 pm

Where do they reposition the aircraft to for the winter? Just curious. I'm not as familiar with their operation.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8265
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:24 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
What will Trego-Dugan do next?


Find a warmer clime to fly to in winter.


You're assuming they rely on Iceland point of sale? I wouldn't - it's cheap 1-stop to Europe. I'm not confident there's enough ULCC 1-stop demand out of CLE at any profitable price in winter. As KLM617 noted - maybe enough for 1 carrier but not 2.
 
axiom
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:36 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
Where do they reposition the aircraft to for the winter? Just curious. I'm not as familiar with their operation.


To your and enilria's point, they just launched MCO, for starters. This requires a long RON.

FI is in a similar boat with MCO/TPA. They consume a lot of aircraft time and shuttle Iceland locals and Northern Europeans to warmer weather, offsetting the decline in NA demand.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1918
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:38 pm

enilria wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
enilria wrote:
"we knew about WOW Air weeks ago"
If so why did nobody post this info?

It was posted in the CLE thread about a month ago.

The media statements were released at the same time per the article. The fact they weren't selling it for Winter was a tip off, but it wasn't official until they put out a statement.

Fox 8 solicited a statement from each carrier then published both statements in a single report. That does not mean "they were both announced simultaneously :stirthepot: " as if to imply some sort of collusion or conspiracy. Again, the WOW flight was known about at least a month ago and I'd say a carrier not selling tickets is a lot more official than a solicited statement published by a local news affiliate.

enilria wrote:
That's an extreme case, but requiring they fly for a full year to get the money (apart from fee abatement) is also fairly unusual.

That's the only reason DL is flying IND-CDG year round, and PIT-CDG year round during that flight's subsidy period. Year round service is also a requisite for AS taking a subsidy for SEA-CMH/PIT.
FLYi
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:46 pm

TheLion wrote:
enilria wrote:
plinth857 wrote:
Do these decisions affect the $500,000 per year each carrier gets from the airport/city at all?

You would hope so, but probably not.


I’d disagree here because the aim of the subsidy is to support the service. It’d be very poor negotiation to provide subsidy without service.

You’d expect that the subsidy be conditional for the maintenance of service according to the terms agreed (seasonal, year-round, 2-year minimum etc).

So in this instance the reason for the subsidy was so CLE or what ever city could say "We have nonstop flights to Iceland"? Seems like a waste of money to me. Chances are the airline will cancel service once it started costing them $$$$.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:52 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
ILNFlyer wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
What will Trego-Dugan do next?


Find a warmer clime to fly to in winter.


You're assuming they rely on Iceland point of sale? I wouldn't - it's cheap 1-stop to Europe. I'm not confident there's enough ULCC 1-stop demand out of CLE at any profitable price in winter. As KLM617 noted - maybe enough for 1 carrier but not 2.



To be fair, CLE hasn't even had TATL international service for almost a decade and then scored two Iceland carriers. It's pretty impressive that both carriers are running 9x/weekly to KEF(!) until late October, subsidy or not.

Also, FI is not taking a long winter hiatus. They'll be back at the beginning of Spring Break unlike MCI which isn't coming back until around Mother's Day.

I'd like to see FI take the KEF route from WW and then bring a carrier in that serves another destination before we decide how many carriers CLE can handle. Dosen't seem like a ridiculous notion.
Last edited by izbtmnhd on Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3609
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:01 pm

I suspect that this is a case of CLE going seasonal on both, and it isn't a surprise. FI might also be deploying aircraft to other carriers in the off-season. (I expect that a few 757s will be deployed to TACV with maintenance on others scheduled in winter.) Remember, all of the passenger 757s, and 3 of the 4 767s, are fully owned/paid off by Icelandair, meaning that there can be spare winter capacity with them and maintenance done. (The MAX 8s are mostly leased under sale-leasebacks.)

One thing I can't find is: what are the 767 routes? A lot of shuffling is going around with the 752s, 753s, and 7M8s.
Last edited by aemoreira1981 on Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 944
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:01 pm

flyPIT wrote:
enilria wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
It was posted in the CLE thread about a month ago.

The media statements were released at the same time per the article. The fact they weren't selling it for Winter was a tip off, but it wasn't official until they put out a statement.

Fox 8 solicited a statement from each carrier then published both statements in a single report. That does not mean "they were both announced simultaneously :stirthepot: " as if to imply some sort of collusion or conspiracy. Again, the WOW flight was known about at least a month ago and I'd say a carrier not selling tickets is a lot more official than a solicited statement published by a local news affiliate.

enilria wrote:
That's an extreme case, but requiring they fly for a full year to get the money (apart from fee abatement) is also fairly unusual.

That's the only reason DL is flying IND-CDG year round, and PIT-CDG year round during that flight's subsidy period. Year round service is also a requisite for AS taking a subsidy for SEA-CMH/PIT.


I like enilria but he does like the flashy headline and theory, at times.

He implied when NK moved into PIT that PIT/CAK NK Ops was a signal by the airline they we're only at CLE because of F9. Of course, CAK NK's operation is now pretty much folded into CLE. With it being said, I bet it got eyeballs when it was posted for such a "mundane" item as a ULCC opening a new station.
 
masseybrown
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

Re: WW and FI Both Suspend Cleveland

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:39 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
I'd like to see FI take the KEF route from WW and then bring a carrier in that serves another destination before we decide how many carriers CLE can handle. Dosen't seem like a ridiculous notion.


CLE airport head Kennedy said that traffic between the CLE catchment and Europe is 350 passengers PDEW as a year-round average. That number should allow room for two carriers, especially if one is seasonal. He has made a few predictions that haven't come true yet (CLE-MCI and CLE-mainland Europe) but I don't believe anyone has faulted his numbers.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos