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Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:20 pm
by gunnerman
dcajet wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Not sure how to make it clear... instead of paying US$1,000 to fly EZE-ZRH r/t, folks take a Flybondi or Andes LCC domestic trip from COR or AEP to IGR for US$25, cab over the border and do IGU-GRU-ZRH for US$650. If they have the time and the $300 savings are worth the hassle, people will do it.


I reckon in that case it is easier to fly EZE-LGW on Norwegian or EZE-BCN on LEVEL and fly from there to anywhere in Europe. BCN has been for quite a long time low-cost central. And specially this summer carriers have been literally giving tickets away to fill seats due to the collapse in tourism in Barcelona:

https://www.hosteltur.com/108671_los-ho ... monia.html

So basically today from Barcelona you can reach anywhere in Europe for 20 or 30 euros even in peak season.


But you must realize that there are more travelers from Argentina than there are seats on Norwegian or LEVEL flights out of EZE. Or that, even budget travelers have their brand preferences or who may not wish to transfer in BCN, etc. The scenarios are endless.

As the Argentina economy is in dire straits with a collapsed Peso, it's not surprising that DI's 11 weekly flights from LGW to EZE will be cut to four from 1 October 2018. In comparison, BA keeps its daily LHR-EZE.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:26 pm
by BlueTrue
What 11 weekly flights are you talking about? Norwegian currently operate this route 4 weekly, have done since it started. It goes daily from December 2018. Would it not be best to check facts?

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:55 pm
by gunnerman
Norwegian filed DI9976 daily (using a 788) Depart LGW 2010 arrive EZE 0700 next day between 6 August and 30 September. A failure to remove this schedule from GDSs isn't good.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:10 pm
by dcajet
gunnerman wrote:
Norwegian filed DI9976 daily (using a 788) Depart LGW 2010 arrive EZE 0700 next day between 6 August and 30 September. A failure to remove this schedule from GDSs isn't good.


Your "alt schedules" are not right... Norwegian currently operates 4x w between LGW & EZE, and that service goes to daily from Dec. 4th, night time departure from LGW. Originally that was thru Mar. 31st but then 2 weeks ago Norwegian amended its plans and the daily operation will be year round with the 787-9. And you need to remind yourself that Norwegian does not make a living in Argentina just relying on the local source market. With the AR$ suddenly more affordable, the market has become even more attractive to, in this case, the UK and Euro traveler.

BA continues to operate daily between LHR and EZE - for a total of 14 weekly flights between LON and BUE on both DI and BA.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:46 pm
by SCQ83
gunnerman wrote:
As the Argentina economy is in dire straits with a collapsed Peso, it's not surprising that DI's 11 weekly flights from LGW to EZE will be cut to four from 1 October 2018. In comparison, BA keeps its daily LHR-EZE.


As others have mentioned, you should check your facts right :)

Btw Iberia is also adding flights on MAD-EZE, and LEVEL on BCN-EZE (probably dcajet knows about the frequencies). Definitely Argentina has untapped tourism potential that with a cheaper Peso, lower fares and the new low-cost domestic flights can be easily developed.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:59 pm
by flyjay123
gunnerman wrote:
Norwegian filed DI9976 daily (using a 788) Depart LGW 2010 arrive EZE 0700 next day between 6 August and 30 September. A failure to remove this schedule from GDSs isn't good.


Don't even think a 788 would make it in their configuration.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:20 pm
by dcajet
SCQ83 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
As the Argentina economy is in dire straits with a collapsed Peso, it's not surprising that DI's 11 weekly flights from LGW to EZE will be cut to four from 1 October 2018. In comparison, BA keeps its daily LHR-EZE.


As others have mentioned, you should check your facts right :)

Btw Iberia is also adding flights on MAD-EZE, and LEVEL on BCN-EZE (probably dcajet knows about the frequencies). Definitely Argentina has untapped tourism potential that with a cheaper Peso, lower fares and the new low-cost domestic flights can be easily developed.


As of next month, IB will be at 17x w between MAD-EZE and LEVEL at 9x w between BCN-EZE. On the plus side as well, LH Group affiliate Edelweiss will start ZRH-EZE 2x w, eff. November. Argentina and Switzerland were not connected with a direct route since 2005 when Swiss dropped the 50+ years old route.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:28 pm
by SCQ83
I don't know what Norwegian is waiting for to launch MAD-EZE. I mentioned there were MAD-GRU return for 537 EUR return for quite a few dates in October. But checking MAD-EZE, the cheapest non-stop option next month comes at 779 EUR with Air Europa (which I think now it is without checked luggage; at least for Latin American countries that allow it). With Iberia the cheapest fare goes up to 1042 EUR. And there are not many possibilities to connect from MAD to EZE (for instance TAP does not fly to EZE). MAD-EZE on Norwegian would be a blast.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:16 pm
Are there open skies between Spain and Argentina? If not, what is the ASA arrangement?

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:06 pm
by a350lover
SCQ83 wrote:
I don't know what Norwegian is waiting for to launch MAD-EZE. I mentioned there were MAD-GRU return for 537 EUR return for quite a few dates in October. But checking MAD-EZE, the cheapest non-stop option next month comes at 779 EUR with Air Europa (which I think now it is without checked luggage; at least for Latin American countries that allow it). With Iberia the cheapest fare goes up to 1042 EUR. And there are not many possibilities to connect from MAD to EZE (for instance TAP does not fly to EZE). MAD-EZE on Norwegian would be a blast.


Norwegian cannot fly Argentina-Madrid under any of its current AOCs. The Argentinian AOC should enable them to launch flights to Spain, although I am not sure when are they exactly adding the first 787s to the ARG fleet.

Taking into account Norwegian super long crew trips it would not surprise if they rostered trips in routes like EZE-BCN-EZE-MAD-EZE, or even with a mix of other ports in South America wherever possible, namely EZE-BCN-GIG-BCN-EZE.

I guess Barcelona-EZE will come first. Just to beat some LEVEL, again, face to face.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:43 pm
by spinkid
I think if they want to play in Asia, they should try to avoid expensive places like HKG and SIN and perhaps look at HKT or PHN (Phnom Phen) or REP,or just shift it all over to S. America as others have suggested.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:49 am
by dcajet
SCQ83 wrote:
I don't know what Norwegian is waiting for to launch MAD-EZE. I mentioned there were MAD-GRU return for 537 EUR return for quite a few dates in October. But checking MAD-EZE, the cheapest non-stop option next month comes at 779 EUR with Air Europa (which I think now it is without checked luggage; at least for Latin American countries that allow it). With Iberia the cheapest fare goes up to 1042 EUR. And there are not many possibilities to connect from MAD to EZE (for instance TAP does not fly to EZE). MAD-EZE on Norwegian would be a blast.


They need to start domestic operations first (Oct. 16th is the date). That is where all eyeballs are looking at as domestic air travel is the big thing in Argentina now, both from a volume perspective as well as a political perspective. They need to show they mean business there. International travel should come next (and they have already established their credentials with the LGW operation, the market knows they are a serious option for less $). Now, it appears DN is eyeing inter-American flying first with the A321LR. So Europe may come later - but no later than end of 2019, as per what crews that are being hired now @ Buenos Aires and Cordoba are being told. The A321LR puts FLL within nonstop reach of EZE and COR. So. FL. is a huge attraction from Argentina, and quite a few Argentinians own second properties there. MIA is the #1 long haul destination out of Argentina, with Madrid in the second place.

TAP announced it will start flying LIS-EZE in 2019. No date given yet, but EZE should be one of 15 new cities that TAP will add in 2019 per its CEO.

[email protected] wrote:
Are there open skies between Spain and Argentina? If not, what is the ASA arrangement?


While Argentina does not have any open skies treaties with any other state (shame!!!), with Spain it has the most liberal ASA treaty of all: basically any Argentinian or Spanish (but not EU) airline flying the flag can fly unlimited between the two countries with no fuss.

a350lover wrote:
Norwegian cannot fly Argentina-Madrid under any of its current AOCs. The Argentinian AOC should enable them to launch flights to Spain, although I am not sure when are they exactly adding the first 787s to the ARG fleet.

Taking into account Norwegian super long crew trips it would not surprise if they rostered trips in routes like EZE-BCN-EZE-MAD-EZE, or even with a mix of other ports in South America wherever possible, namely EZE-BCN-GIG-BCN-EZE.

I guess Barcelona-EZE will come first. Just to beat some LEVEL, again, face to face.


Norwegian Argentina has had a valid Argentinian AOC since January so technically they could start flying to MAD, BCN & AGP (where to they hold authorities) tomorrow if they had the LV- registered 787s and local crews trained, etc, Two reasons they had delayed the beginning of its Argentinian operations: one was internal and it had to do with some of the challenges they had earlier in the year including a possible take over by IAG and an external: they were lobbying hard in Argentina for the market deregulation, which was approved in July by the authorities. Only then they put a date to the beginning of ops.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:39 pm
by C010T3
Norwegian's filing before the Brazilian ANAC effective March 31, 2019:

DI7501 1-3-5-7 789 LGW 1200 GIG 1925
DI7502 1-3-5-7 789 GIG 2225 LGW 1335+1

https://sistemas.anac.gov.br/sas/regist ... futuro.csv

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:51 pm
by a350lover
Do you guys think they will be more successful in this GIG operation?

Loads weren't bad to Singapore... fares probably won't be as "affordable" to Rio, but still will face tough competition from BA which operates Rio with MixedFleet, plus all the European competitors often dropping fares too (Air France, TAP and Iberia mainly).

Good luck to Norwegian on this one.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:01 pm
by JamesCousins
dcajet wrote:
behramjee wrote:
their long haul strategy is seriously starting to sound like a complete circus !


Oh please. They cancel one route and that qualifies as a circus in your book?


Ditching the route having made a fanfare about launching it not that long ago, pushing people off to crappy leased frames from Wamos and HiFly (the A380 perhaps an exception) and losing money while doing it. Bit of a circus in my book...

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:02 pm
by C010T3
Hadn't BA gone Worldwide at GIG?

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:15 pm
by dcajet
JamesCousins wrote:
dcajet wrote:
behramjee wrote:
their long haul strategy is seriously starting to sound like a complete circus !


Oh please. They cancel one route and that qualifies as a circus in your book?


Ditching the route having made a fanfare about launching it not that long ago, pushing people off to crappy leased frames from Wamos and HiFly (the A380 perhaps an exception) and losing money while doing it. Bit of a circus in my book...


Those plane swaps you mention were/are over the North Atlantic. Singapore, as well as EZE, operate with their own 787-9. And yes, sometimes air routes do not pan out as airlines would have hoped for. And they cancel them. Same as BA did at Chengdu or at Lima (seasonally). That does not make BA or Norwegian a circus. just businesses with an eye on profits.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:17 pm
by dcajet
C010T3 wrote:
Hadn't BA gone Worldwide at GIG?


Yes. GRU is a mix of both if memory serves, and EZE went Mixed Fleet back in June. I am not sure about SCL.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:05 am
by BA777FO
dcajet wrote:
C010T3 wrote:
Hadn't BA gone Worldwide at GIG?


Yes. GRU is a mix of both if memory serves, and EZE went Mixed Fleet back in June. I am not sure about SCL.


GRU is Worldwide, including the additional 2x weekly 787 trips. EZE is now Mixed Fleet and SCL has been on Mixed Fleet since it began.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:13 am
by dcajet
BA777FO wrote:
dcajet wrote:
C010T3 wrote:
Hadn't BA gone Worldwide at GIG?


Yes. GRU is a mix of both if memory serves, and EZE went Mixed Fleet back in June. I am not sure about SCL.


GRU is Worldwide, including the additional 2x weekly 787 trips. EZE is now Mixed Fleet and SCL has been on Mixed Fleet since it began.


Thanks! I seemed to remember the 2 extra weekly GRU flights were MF.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:44 am
by Cunard
a350lover wrote:
Do you guys think they will be more successful in this GIG operation?

Loads weren't bad to Singapore... fares probably won't be as "affordable" to Rio, but still will face tough competition from BA which operates Rio with MixedFleet, plus all the European competitors often dropping fares too (Air France, TAP and Iberia mainly).

Good luck to Norwegian on this one.


It's been stated by other posters and it's also available online that Norwegian lost a major cargo contact on LGW to SIN and the yields were not great hence the route was dropped in favour of GIG which I think will work for Norwegian and the destination fits in more with the airlines network than Singapore did.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:12 am
by LipeGIG
a350lover wrote:
Do you guys think they will be more successful in this GIG operation?

Loads weren't bad to Singapore... fares probably won't be as "affordable" to Rio, but still will face tough competition from BA which operates Rio with MixedFleet, plus all the European competitors often dropping fares too (Air France, TAP and Iberia mainly).

Good luck to Norwegian on this one.


Europe-GIG last addition was 2x weekly ZRH-GIG (recently we only saw some returns like IB announcing the return of daily flights) and still below 2014 levels when for example GIG had 3x daily former JJ flights to Europe (CDG, FRA and LHR). Fares are nice specially on peak season.

Very few competition and lacks of a local airline makes Norwegian life easier than SCL, EZE or GRU in my view.

Every player Europe-GIG runs just select markets (with the exception of KL-AF dual CDG & AMS operation) and in my view many attract traffic from Vitoria, Belo Horizonte, Curitiba, Porto Alegre and Iguassu Falls, among others.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:25 am
by cedars747
[/quote] I like the idea of Norwegian flying GIG-EZE-GIG. They would compete with Emirates, the big discounter (very successfully) on this route.[/quote]
It would be amazing to add GIG-EZE onboard Norwegian to my collection of flights between the two cities AF, PA, LH, EA, EK, SK and SR.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:07 am
by lhrsfosyd
Very disappointing outbound isn't a red eye. Yields would have been much better.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:06 am
by JamesCousins
dcajet wrote:
Those plane swaps you mention were/are over the North Atlantic.


I'm aware of that, though customers booked with the belief they'd be flying Norwegian's marked 787. I have an issue with Norwegian expanding at the rate it does, while pushing people off consistently to sub standard equipment

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:49 pm
by BlueTrue
So the engine problems on the 787 are Norwegian' s fault?

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:26 pm
by dcajet
JamesCousins wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Those plane swaps you mention were/are over the North Atlantic.


I'm aware of that, though customers booked with the belief they'd be flying Norwegian's marked 787. I have an issue with Norwegian expanding at the rate it does, while pushing people off consistently to sub standard equipment


Listen, you clearly have a grievance of some sort with Norwegian. Deal with it. And what are your thoughts on LATAM and Air New Zealand, to name just two, that had/have to resort to subbing equipment for their 787s? Do you have an issue with them too? Did they expand too fast too?

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:43 pm
by JamesCousins
dcajet wrote:
JamesCousins wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Those plane swaps you mention were/are over the North Atlantic.


I'm aware of that, though customers booked with the belief they'd be flying Norwegian's marked 787. I have an issue with Norwegian expanding at the rate it does, while pushing people off consistently to sub standard equipment


Listen, you clearly have a grievance of some sort with Norwegian. Deal with it. And what are your thoughts on LATAM and Air New Zealand, to name just two, that had/have to resort to subbing equipment for their 787s? Do you have an issue with them too? Did they expand too fast too?


No grievance, I think the way Norweigen is 'disrupting' the market is very good from a consumer standpoint. Difference is LATAM and Air New Zealand haven't been frantically opening new routes while suffering the RR 787 issues that have plagued so many operators.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:11 am
by CrawleyBen
According to Retuers, Norwegian have released a statement confirming the new Rio De Janeiro to Gatwick flights are on sale. Fares starting from £240 one way ($306.22). Flights commence as of 31st March 2019.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-norw ... SKCN1NW0WN

Cheers

Ben

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:26 pm
by Mortyman
CrawleyBen wrote:
According to Retuers, Norwegian have released a statement confirming the new Rio De Janeiro to Gatwick flights are on sale. Fares starting from £240 one way ($306.22). Flights commence as of 31st March 2019.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-norw ... SKCN1NW0WN

Cheers

Ben


Yes and they are also increasing London - Buenos Aires to daily from 3 december


https://e24.no/naeringsliv/norwegian-ai ... s/24503475

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:37 pm
by cedars747
Unfortunately traveling with Norwegian from Norway has no advantage. An airline ticket to RIO or EZE with AF, KL or AA including baggage and meals is cheaper than Norwegian without baggage and meals. Can somebody explain to me the reason?

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:35 pm
by Baluba
cedars747 wrote:
Unfortunately traveling with Norwegian from Norway has no advantage. An airline ticket to RIO or EZE with AF, KL or AA including baggage and meals is cheaper than Norwegian without baggage and meals. Can somebody explain to me the reason?


Rio - London and BA - London are not routes aimed specifically at norwegian passengers, though Rio - London will be convenient from OSL so I'm sure there will be a good chunk of norwegian passengers there. The most important markets for these routes are the UK and ARG/BRA.

However, I'd note that higher fares is not a bad thing from the company's point of view. If they can charge as much as AF or AA and sell tickets, that's only a good thing.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:58 pm
by winGl3t
They'll need to work harder to bring fares down on Europe-Brazil corridor.
Just bought GRU-AMS-GRU on LX departing in March and paid 460 USD round-trip on coach with meal, miles, reserved seats + 2 checked bags (Business ticket was 1.600 USD!)

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:05 pm
by cedars747
Baluba wrote:
cedars747 wrote:
Unfortunately traveling with Norwegian from Norway has no advantage. An airline ticket to RIO or EZE with AF, KL or AA including baggage and meals is cheaper than Norwegian without baggage and meals. Can somebody explain to me the reason?


Rio - London and BA - London are not routes aimed specifically at norwegian passengers, though Rio - London will be convenient from OSL so I'm sure there will be a good chunk of norwegian passengers there. The most important markets for these routes are the UK and ARG/BRA.

However, I'd note that higher fares is not a bad thing from the company's point of view. If they can charge as much as AF or AA and sell tickets, that's only a good thing.

This is simply unfair! We give the world the best low-cost airline without being able to take advantage of it. Even on domestic flights SAS has better offers.

Re: Norwegian drops LGW-SIN and announces LGW-GIG

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:36 pm
by cedars747
winGl3t wrote:
They'll need to work harder to bring fares down on Europe-Brazil corridor.
Just bought GRU-AMS-GRU on LX departing in March and paid 460 USD round-trip on coach with meal, miles, reserved seats + 2 checked bags (Business ticket was 1.600 USD!)

460 USD =3873 Kr you are lucky! in Norway no way to find this fare, and LX is a very good airline.