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master14225
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Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:09 am

I've been noticing that YYZ is getting busier every year and it feels like were at capacity with both Terminal 1 & 3 combined. YYZ grows by 3 million pax per year and it should reach 50 million pax this year. I read the master plan and it says that both terminals combined right now gives a capacity of 47 million pax and we already reached that in 2017. However it seems like nothing is being done right now at YYZ when compared to other Canadian airports like YVR and YUL which have expansion plans and are going ahead with them. Even American airports like ORD, SEA, SFO, and DEN are building more gates so I feel that YYZ should start soon to build Pier G and H at Terminal 1 very soon because they will fall behind as a hub if growing trends continue like this. What are your opinions about this issue?
 
Prost
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:18 am

I would never use SEA as an airport that plans well for the future.
 
master14225
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:23 am

Prost wrote:
I would never use SEA as an airport that plans well for the future.


True, but at least they are doing something about their rapid growth with having plans to add more gates along w 8 new gates slated to be used in 2020. YYZ on the other hand isn't doing anything with trying to add new gates at Terminal 1.
 
Canuck600
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:20 am

I don't how YYZ is operated & funded but could there be issues at the Provincial & Federal level that funding they normally get from those levels of government are not available at the moment?
 
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DA20RBV
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:41 am

YYZ is a private not-for-profit with a lease agreement with the government for the operation and management of the airport. There is no government funding, all of the funding comes from the AIF and other revenues that the airport makes.

The master plan on their website shows that they will join T3 and T1 as well as expand T1 to the Northeast.

They did use the infield terminal this summer during peak summer travel season. That may be thier short term solution.
 
hz747300
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:39 am

They should expand Billy Bishop to be a reliever. Also, Hamilton with high speed rail to downtown could be a reliever too. Seems like the city has done well to keep the area around Pearson expandable certainly to the west, but it's the forth largest metropolis in North America and probably deserving of a multiple airport scheme.
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Bobloblaw
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:26 am

hz747300 wrote:
They should expand Billy Bishop to be a reliever. Also, Hamilton with high speed rail to downtown could be a reliever too. Seems like the city has done well to keep the area around Pearson expandable certainly to the west, but it's the forth largest metropolis in North America and probably deserving of a multiple airport scheme.

Those are non starters. YUL for connecting traffic and YYZ for local and some unique connects.
 
COEWRNJ
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:50 am

I haven’t been to YYZ for several years but used to fly into there regularly and if I recall correctly, isn’t there a terminal over by terminal 3 that sits empty most of the time?
 
skymiler
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:59 am

As someone who passes through through YYZ Terminal 3 up to 20 times a year the best I can say is that it is a third world airport in a world class city.

From what I have heard it the issues is a combination of incompetence and politics.

Terminal 3 US departures is a total overcrowded disaster. The "improvements" made over the last 2 years were mainly to make you walk through a huge duty free, not to address gate, rolling sidewalk or departure lounge issues.
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whywhyzee
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:20 am

There has been a lot of expansion lately, but it is raindrops in the ocean.

- The old (and what was supposed to be temporary) infield terminal was renovated and reopened this summer, and now handles most international LCC traffic, so that has alleviated aot of strain on T3 and had the combined effect of enabling carriers like Primera to expand significantly. Look for that to continue.

- T1 just opened 5 new ground level gates this week on the easternmost side of t1, and an extension to the transborder ground level pier as well, so all in all, 10 new gates available (5 for regional aircraft and 5 for narrow bodies). They have also expanded the long term parking area on the hotel ramp to accomodate loading and unloading as an overflow measure, and it was used extensively this summer. Basicially, most delayed arrivals went here, as their gate slots were long gone by the time they arrived, and filled.

I say this is raindrops in the ocean because there is still a very long way to go, T1 especially needs more widebody gates for internationals. The strategy to try to entice airlines to run bigger equipment simply isn't competitive. With any luck, serious construction for the H pier begins soon, because that will move all transborder ops to the east side of T1 allowing for a ton more international gates on what is currently the F pier.

Why does this happen, mainly terrible governmental oversight and a lack of funding.
 
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:10 pm

master14225 wrote:
I've been noticing that YYZ is getting busier every year and it feels like were at capacity with both Terminal 1 & 3 combined. YYZ grows by 3 million pax per year and it should reach 50 million pax this year. I read the master plan and it says that both terminals combined right now gives a capacity of 47 million pax and we already reached that in 2017. However it seems like nothing is being done right now at YYZ when compared to other Canadian airports like YVR and YUL which have expansion plans and are going ahead with them. Even American airports like ORD, SEA, SFO, and DEN are building more gates so I feel that YYZ should start soon to build Pier G and H at Terminal 1 very soon because they will fall behind as a hub if growing trends continue like this. What are your opinions about this issue?


The phrase you need is step function.

ORD went 20 years without adding a single gate. People still complain about the big budget for the expansion of SFO (International Terminal, the rental car train), major parts of which were completed more than 15 years ago. Southwest (going back to 2005) and Alaska (see complaints about International Arrivals Facility, https://blog.alaskaair.com/alaska-airli ... -terminal/) have been dragged kicking and screaming into SEA expansion even as the airport's growth was large and sustained.

Airports have a lot of stakeholders. Not just airlines (as is the dominant idea here), but local taxpayers on the hook for costs plus all the passengers using the facilities. Gates (and restaurants, and parking spots) aren't added in increments of 1.

On the other hand you find complaints about the 'Build it and they will come' programs of airports like Branson/Springfield, and of big increments of capacity - like Sacramento.

It's fair to ask the question how much government money (in the U.S., though tax-exempt local bonds with Federal support) should go to support for-profit businesses. Delta got sick of waiting at LGA and LAX and ponied up significant money.

You never make everybody happy.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:52 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
master14225 wrote:
I've been noticing that YYZ is getting busier every year and it feels like were at capacity with both Terminal 1 & 3 combined. YYZ grows by 3 million pax per year and it should reach 50 million pax this year. I read the master plan and it says that both terminals combined right now gives a capacity of 47 million pax and we already reached that in 2017. However it seems like nothing is being done right now at YYZ when compared to other Canadian airports like YVR and YUL which have expansion plans and are going ahead with them. Even American airports like ORD, SEA, SFO, and DEN are building more gates so I feel that YYZ should start soon to build Pier G and H at Terminal 1 very soon because they will fall behind as a hub if growing trends continue like this. What are your opinions about this issue?


The phrase you need is step function.

ORD went 20 years without adding a single gate. People still complain about the big budget for the expansion of SFO (International Terminal, the rental car train), major parts of which were completed more than 15 years ago. Southwest (going back to 2005) and Alaska (see complaints about International Arrivals Facility, https://blog.alaskaair.com/alaska-airli ... -terminal/) have been dragged kicking and screaming into SEA expansion even as the airport's growth was large and sustained.

Airports have a lot of stakeholders. Not just airlines (as is the dominant idea here), but local taxpayers on the hook for costs plus all the passengers using the facilities. Gates (and restaurants, and parking spots) aren't added in increments of 1.

On the other hand you find complaints about the 'Build it and they will come' programs of airports like Branson/Springfield, and of big increments of capacity - like Sacramento.

It's fair to ask the question how much government money (in the U.S., though tax-exempt local bonds with Federal support) should go to support for-profit businesses. Delta got sick of waiting at LGA and LAX and ponied up significant money.

You never make everybody happy.


The thing is in Canada, all of the country’s major airports are not only NOT taxpayer funded, they’re huge cash cows for the federal government via “rent” payments.
 
EvanWSFO
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:56 pm

I recall years ago some renderings of a master plan terminal which would have a horseshoe design on the southern end of the terminal and connecting T3. Seems like it had 120+ gates. I'll see if I can find it, I know I saved it.
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YYZLGA
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:33 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
- T1 just opened 5 new ground level gates this week on the easternmost side of t1, and an extension to the transborder ground level pier as well, so all in all, 10 new gates available (5 for regional aircraft and 5 for narrow bodies). They have also expanded the long term parking area on the hotel ramp to accomodate loading and unloading as an overflow measure, and it was used extensively this summer. Basicially, most delayed arrivals went here, as their gate slots were long gone by the time they arrived, and filled.


Thanks for the update. So the new gates are open already? You mention that the 5 new gates are for narrow-bodies, but they're also ground-level. Will there be boarding by stairs in that case? Also, have they upgraded the access to those gates from the main terminal yet?

In terms of cause, I think the issue is that YYZ became one of the highest-cost airports in the world after their last big expansion. The recent bout of growth has finally begun to bring costs down. Another big expansion will only cause them to jump up again, which is not something any of the airlines want. It's a delicate balance, trying to squeeze as much out of the existing infrastructure as possible before embarking on another costly project.
 
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:55 pm

The YYZ master plan has all the answers https://www.torontopearson.com/uploaded ... 037_EN.pdf
It was updated in 2017 and looks forward for the period 2017 - 2037

While to a passaneger it might seem that T3 is saturated, GTAA feels contrary

Airside System and Passenger Terminals.
We expect that airside systems and passenger terminals will be able to
accommodate the demand we forecast over the course of this Master Plan. Both critical elements of our operations,
they largely have sufficient capacity to meet demand over the next two decades – and where this is not the case,
they can be expanded or made more productive.

...

At the same time, we expect that our existing passenger terminal facilities, with some adaptation and expansion,
will be able to accommodate much or all of the increased demand projected for the next two decades.
Technological advances are making it possible to accommodate a greater flow of traffic through a given passenger
terminal area. At Toronto Pearson, some of these technologies are already in place, while others are on the near
horizon. Self-service check-in and bag drop have become routine for many travellers. We’ve also made significant
improvements to our baggage-handling systems, and more are on the way. Technology-enabled enhancements are
likewise making security screening and border control processes more efficient. We expect other advances – such
as seamless boarding and security procedures made possible by biometric identification – to further speed the flow
of people and bags through our terminals in the near to medium term.
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Skywatcher
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:02 pm

I flew a WestJet Encore YUL-YYZ-YUL a couple of months ago. The walk to the regional flights gates in YYZ was by far the longest I've ever done in 100+ flights in my life. The outbound flight was delayed 2 hours due to "congestion" at YYZ and then they lost our luggage for about an hour. The rental car pickup at YYZ was a mess (they sent me to 3 separate cars that weren't actually there).I will drive next time.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:29 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
I flew a WestJet Encore YUL-YYZ-YUL a couple of months ago. The walk to the regional flights gates in YYZ was by far the longest I've ever done in 100+ flights in my life. The outbound flight was delayed 2 hours due to "congestion" at YYZ and then they lost our luggage for about an hour. The rental car pickup at YYZ was a mess (they sent me to 3 separate cars that weren't actually there).I will drive next time.


Or avoid all that mess and fly Porter to YTZ.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:58 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
- T1 just opened 5 new ground level gates this week on the easternmost side of t1, and an extension to the transborder ground level pier as well, so all in all, 10 new gates available (5 for regional aircraft and 5 for narrow bodies). They have also expanded the long term parking area on the hotel ramp to accomodate loading and unloading as an overflow measure, and it was used extensively this summer. Basicially, most delayed arrivals went here, as their gate slots were long gone by the time they arrived, and filled.


Thanks for the update. So the new gates are open already? You mention that the 5 new gates are for narrow-bodies, but they're also ground-level. Will there be boarding by stairs in that case? Also, have they upgraded the access to those gates from the main terminal yet?

In terms of cause, I think the issue is that YYZ became one of the highest-cost airports in the world after their last big expansion. The recent bout of growth has finally begun to bring costs down. Another big expansion will only cause them to jump up again, which is not something any of the airlines want. It's a delicate balance, trying to squeeze as much out of the existing infrastructure as possible before embarking on another costly project.


Correct, air stair boarding, they are just opening now, first trials were last week.

You are correct about the costs, they really have to manage things given that the government seems to like bleeding them dry. With any luck, things continue down a positive path. There is still a long way to go, and with any luck, some new actual hates begin construction soon, but of course, as you pointed out, they aren't going to be palaces. They also have to contend with the fact that it is jammed as is, the airport cannot afford any disruption to what already exists.
 
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:03 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
I flew a WestJet Encore YUL-YYZ-YUL a couple of months ago. The walk to the regional flights gates in YYZ was by far the longest I've ever done in 100+ flights in my life. The outbound flight was delayed 2 hours due to "congestion" at YYZ and then they lost our luggage for about an hour. The rental car pickup at YYZ was a mess (they sent me to 3 separate cars that weren't actually there).I will drive next time.


Or avoid all that mess and fly Porter to YTZ.

I had to chuckle listening to this poor gentleman's travails travelling on WS between YUL and YYZ. As I heard a similar story from one of my neighbours. He is the CEO of a very large financial corporation in Toronto and his employees travel between YYZ and YUL a few dozen times a week. When he heard that WS was about half the price, he decided to try them out.

His story was about the same, but, he added, every time he queried them about the delay, the cheery response always ended with a high pitched question ... "Kay?". "Yes, sir, your flight is about two hours late .... Kay?" He arrived in YUL very late, tried to get the best of his meeting done, then returned to YUL for his return to YYZ, went to the WS desk and it was the same story. "Yes, sir, your flight is at least an hour late".

He handed them his printed boarding pass and said, no thanks. Went over to the Rapidair desk, gave them his credit card and his words, "20 minutes later my ass was in an A320 headed to YYZ". I explained that internally, AC is brutal with Rapidair flights. When possible, total priority is given and that is why it's so expensive. It is also why there are mostly suits on Rapidair flights.
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YYZLGA
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:38 pm

Given that there is already talk of runway congestion at certain times, I'm very surprised that the master plan claims the additional runway that's long been planned won't be needed for decades.
 
ModernAviator
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:46 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
Given that there is already talk of runway congestion at certain times, I'm very surprised that the master plan claims the additional runway that's long been planned won't be needed for decades.


They say that the main congestion issue is when they are using the 33 runways. Aircraft exiting 33L have to cross over 33R there is talk of building a taxi way around 33R and that should allow them to handle more planes.

Pearson does have very ambitious growth plans including expanding and connecting T1 and T3 while also building the Regional Transit Centre, that could also act as the main passenger check in and security area. How ever funding is an issue the GTAA has to fund everything themselves and are still paying off the debts from building T1 so do not expect anything to happen quickly.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:10 pm

Ah, makes sense. Switching to the crosswind runways is quite a drop in capacity.

I think GTAA wants to have a lot more piecemeal expansion options. That's the approach of YVR, for example. The problem with the previous master plan is that it was pretty inflexible for gate additions without needing to build an entire new multi-billion dollar pier, which would then have years of unused capacity. The new master plan seems to have a lot of different options for adding a few new gates at a time, so that capacity utilization remains high and therefore costs don't balloon.
 
747WanSui
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:49 am

Please also note that another major airport has been proposed in the Toronto area. This proposal was first floated about 50 years ago, then went dormant for several decades, but has been revived over the past 15 years or so.

Perhaps the capacity issues mentioned in this thread may be the reason why the new airport proposal seems to be (as I describe it) down but not out...
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:31 am

747WanSui wrote:
Please also note that another major airport has been proposed in the Toronto area. This proposal was first floated about 50 years ago, then went dormant for several decades, but has been revived over the past 15 years or so.

Perhaps the capacity issues mentioned in this thread may be the reason why the new airport proposal seems to be (as I describe it) down but not out...

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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:43 pm

The infield terminal operation will likely be expanding significantly next year as Primera will be growing to up to 5 flights a day next year, with potentially more to come. Speaks to the value of re-opening that facility, as it will allow the GTAA to focus on the expansion of T1 that currently doesn't have that option.
 
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:58 pm

I like YYZ's Master Plan and especially its efforts for regional transit hub and integrating itself further into the community.

I'm also glad to see the terminal expansion to H pier. And it's a good idea to link T3 and T1.
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2travel2know2
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:00 pm

Would making the curfew time night-time shorter make any difference giving YYZ some extra capacity slack?
As far as I know, Toronto does have another airport, it's YHM. A better link (rail link that's) to Toronto proper and jetways might make that airport more appealing to YYZ passengers, specially those living towards Hamilton.
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whywhyzee
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:35 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
Would making the curfew time night-time shorter make any difference giving YYZ some extra capacity slack?
As far as I know, Toronto does have another airport, it's YHM. A better link (rail link that's) to Toronto proper and jetways might make that airport more appealing to YYZ passengers, specially those living towards Hamilton.


I don't know that changing the curfew would do all that much, as it stands, late night isn't overly busy, with most internationals having already departed.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:35 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
I flew a WestJet Encore YUL-YYZ-YUL a couple of months ago. The walk to the regional flights gates in YYZ was by far the longest I've ever done in 100+ flights in my life. The outbound flight was delayed 2 hours due to "congestion" at YYZ and then they lost our luggage for about an hour. The rental car pickup at YYZ was a mess (they sent me to 3 separate cars that weren't actually there).I will drive next time.


Ironically, it’s the same at T1. A few years ago, I was scheduled to fly DTW-YYZ-SJD over the Holidays. AC cut the morning DTW-YYZ flight and offered to fly us in the evening the night before, paying for overnight stay. Our inbound flight was scheduled to arrive at 7:30PM, and our outbound left at 8AM, so we agreed, figuring we’d get a full night’s sleep.

But wow, the walk from the AC regional gates (housed in what appeared to be a series of trailers) to the airport exit (stopping at customs/immigration) seemed like miles, especially traveling with my elderly, handicap mother and small children. By the time we checked into our rooms, it was past 11PM. Didn’t expect that...
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Cubsrule
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:59 pm

compensateme wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
I flew a WestJet Encore YUL-YYZ-YUL a couple of months ago. The walk to the regional flights gates in YYZ was by far the longest I've ever done in 100+ flights in my life. The outbound flight was delayed 2 hours due to "congestion" at YYZ and then they lost our luggage for about an hour. The rental car pickup at YYZ was a mess (they sent me to 3 separate cars that weren't actually there).I will drive next time.


Ironically, it’s the same at T1. A few years ago, I was scheduled to fly DTW-YYZ-SJD over the Holidays. AC cut the morning DTW-YYZ flight and offered to fly us in the evening the night before, paying for overnight stay. Our inbound flight was scheduled to arrive at 7:30PM, and our outbound left at 8AM, so we agreed, figuring we’d get a full night’s sleep.

But wow, the walk from the AC regional gates (housed in what appeared to be a series of trailers) to the airport exit (stopping at customs/immigration) seemed like miles, especially traveling with my elderly, handicap mother and small children. By the time we checked into our rooms, it was past 11PM. Didn’t expect that...


I haven't counted the steps to know whether the distance from the regional "farms" is worse at Terminal 1 or Terminal 3 but, indeed, both are pretty bad. The bad 90s carpet on the Terminal 3 arrivals level is the worst part for those with roller bags, and I would imagine not too much fun with a wheelchair or stroller either.

I arrived in Terminal 3 in the midst of the afternoon rush (shortly after HU and KL) today and CBSA was clearly struggling despite the new kiosks and mobile app, which are actually quite nice. They were pulling folks from the lines and sending them through with no conversation with a CBSA officer.

YYZLGA wrote:
Ah, makes sense. Switching to the crosswind runways is quite a drop in capacity.

I think GTAA wants to have a lot more piecemeal expansion options. That's the approach of YVR, for example. The problem with the previous master plan is that it was pretty inflexible for gate additions without needing to build an entire new multi-billion dollar pier, which would then have years of unused capacity. The new master plan seems to have a lot of different options for adding a few new gates at a time, so that capacity utilization remains high and therefore costs don't balloon.


How often do they have to use the 15s or the 33s? With 5 and the 6s in use, things run pretty smoothly.
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Dominion301
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:53 am

whywhyzee wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
Would making the curfew time night-time shorter make any difference giving YYZ some extra capacity slack?
As far as I know, Toronto does have another airport, it's YHM. A better link (rail link that's) to Toronto proper and jetways might make that airport more appealing to YYZ passengers, specially those living towards Hamilton.


I don't know that changing the curfew would do all that much, as it stands, late night isn't overly busy, with most internationals having already departed.


Aren’t the 0030 YOW and YUL Rapidairs typically the last departures of the night (or first of the morning)?
 
9252fly
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:32 am

How many additional piers was T1 designed to have?
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:44 am

Dominion301 wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
Would making the curfew time night-time shorter make any difference giving YYZ some extra capacity slack?
As far as I know, Toronto does have another airport, it's YHM. A better link (rail link that's) to Toronto proper and jetways might make that airport more appealing to YYZ passengers, specially those living towards Hamilton.


I don't know that changing the curfew would do all that much, as it stands, late night isn't overly busy, with most internationals having already departed.


Aren’t the 0030 YOW and YUL Rapidairs typically the last departures of the night (or first of the morning)?


CZ to CAN, PR to MNL, AM to MEX and BR to TPE all depart after 0100, but things are generally a fair bit quieter around then.
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:45 am

9252fly wrote:
How many additional piers was T1 designed to have?

I believe under the new master plan, 2.
 
Flightsimboy
Posts: 1777
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:49 pm

Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:38 am

whywhyzee wrote:

CZ to CAN, PR to MNL, AM to MEX and BR to TPE all depart after 0100, but things are generally a fair bit quieter around then.


You forgot the one that has always been there before even these others came along, CX to Hong Kong.
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
speedbird52
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:58 am

Prost wrote:
I would never use SEA as a city that plans well for the future.

Fixed that for you *sarcasm off*
 
whywhyzee
Posts: 1119
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:05 pm

Flightsimboy wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:

CZ to CAN, PR to MNL, AM to MEX and BR to TPE all depart after 0100, but things are generally a fair bit quieter around then.


You forgot the one that has always been there before even these others came along, CX to Hong Kong.


The lesson we can all learn is do not post before bed. Thank you haha, the world is better now.
 
Flightsimboy
Posts: 1777
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:49 pm

Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:51 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Flightsimboy wrote:
whywhyzee wrote:

CZ to CAN, PR to MNL, AM to MEX and BR to TPE all depart after 0100, but things are generally a fair bit quieter around then.


You forgot the one that has always been there before even these others came along, CX to Hong Kong.


The lesson we can all learn is do not post before bed. Thank you haha, the world is better now.


:)
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
n7371f
Posts: 1861
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:50 am

Terminal 1 for US border flights is horrible. Have not been to the AC terminal but here it's great. T1 is especially awful when on a US carrier regional. Lots of fun flying out of A6 in a tiny, floor level closet room. But rest of terminal, even with the OTG-themed restaurants, is cramped, narrow and just awful.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14927
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:33 am

Cubsrule wrote:
compensateme wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
I flew a WestJet Encore YUL-YYZ-YUL a couple of months ago. The walk to the regional flights gates in YYZ was by far the longest I've ever done in 100+ flights in my life. The outbound flight was delayed 2 hours due to "congestion" at YYZ and then they lost our luggage for about an hour. The rental car pickup at YYZ was a mess (they sent me to 3 separate cars that weren't actually there).I will drive next time.


Ironically, it’s the same at T1. A few years ago, I was scheduled to fly DTW-YYZ-SJD over the Holidays. AC cut the morning DTW-YYZ flight and offered to fly us in the evening the night before, paying for overnight stay. Our inbound flight was scheduled to arrive at 7:30PM, and our outbound left at 8AM, so we agreed, figuring we’d get a full night’s sleep.

But wow, the walk from the AC regional gates (housed in what appeared to be a series of trailers) to the airport exit (stopping at customs/immigration) seemed like miles, especially traveling with my elderly, handicap mother and small children. By the time we checked into our rooms, it was past 11PM. Didn’t expect that...


I haven't counted the steps to know whether the distance from the regional "farms" is worse at Terminal 1 or Terminal 3 but, indeed, both are pretty bad. The bad 90s carpet on the Terminal 3 arrivals level is the worst part for those with roller bags, and I would imagine not too much fun with a wheelchair or stroller either.


I repent of this post now that I have walked out to F97, where I am currently waiting to board. Terminal 1 is worse. Expand it, as the Brits would say, with immediate effect.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
fly2yyz
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:45 pm

Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:20 am

n7371f wrote:
Terminal 1 for US border flights is horrible. Have not been to the AC terminal but here it's great. T1 is especially awful when on a US carrier regional. Lots of fun flying out of A6 in a tiny, floor level closet room. But rest of terminal, even with the OTG-themed restaurants, is cramped, narrow and just awful.


Terminal 1 is ACs terminal in YYZ. I guess you’re thinking Terminal 3 which does feature the regional gate A6.
 
FlightTeacher
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:01 pm

Re: Is Toronto Pearson YYZ At Maximum Capacity? Why No New Gates Added Yet Or Expansion At Terminal 1?

Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:50 pm

admanager wrote:
747WanSui wrote:
Please also note that another major airport has been proposed in the Toronto area. This proposal was first floated about 50 years ago, then went dormant for several decades, but has been revived over the past 15 years or so.

Perhaps the capacity issues mentioned in this thread may be the reason why the new airport proposal seems to be (as I describe it) down but not out...

Pickering was a bad idea in 1972 and is still a bad idea. Did Mirabel teach us nothing?


Mirabel taught us that the government should not be building airports for political reasons, instead they need to be build for economic and business reasons , which is why Pickering will be built with private funds, and run by a not for profit airport authority, providing competition to the inappropriate named monopoly called the GTAA, and the single airport they run, Pearson.

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