richiemo
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American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:26 am

I remember reading some time back that American was planning on retiring their A330-300s in 2017. But as far as I can tell, they still exist in the fleet and I don't see any reference anymore to their retirement. Has AA rethought this strategy? I know they planned on the retirement because of lack of engine commonality with the A330-200s. Hopefully they've thought better of it. Always hate to see 330s of any type be retired.
 
Beatyair
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:33 am

American is keeping them around. The 767 will be retiring quickly and they can’t get 787’s fast enough to fill the gap.
 
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SQ789
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:34 am

I think all are going out by 2019.
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UnitedIsBae
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:37 am

I dont think so, the -200s and -300s were both from US. i heard them possibly plan to but those weren't solid plans.
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gatibosgru
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:02 am

I thought the 200s were on their way out, but I may be wrong. The 300s make more sense to me in AAs fleet.
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deltal1011man
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:06 am

gatibosgru wrote:
I thought the 200s were on their way out, but I may be wrong. The 300s make more sense to me in AAs fleet.

The 300s are/were on the way out. The 200s are basically brand new.

The US 300s are quite old, lower MTOW and have PW4000s, the only Pratt in the American fleet.
 
HPAEAA
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:07 am

UnitedIsBae wrote:
I dont think so, the -200s and -300s were both from US. i heard them possibly plan to but those weren't solid plans.

I think the original plan was to get rid of the 333s quickly because of the small fleet however the plans got reshuffled earlier this year with the expanded 788/789 order, instead of rushing out the 333, they decided to fast track the 763 retirements with 788 replacements and later replace the 333 with 789s.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... a330s/amp/
Last edited by HPAEAA on Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ericm2031
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:07 am

gatibosgru wrote:
I thought the 200s were on their way out, but I may be wrong. The 300s make more sense to me in AAs fleet.


Only having 9 isn't economical with the size of their fleet. The 200's got PE, so those don't look to be going anywhere...although only having 15 isn't very economical either.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:08 am

The 332 fleet is quite new. The 333s are a good deal older, although they are new enough to have the 233 t MTOW and not geriatric by US airline standards. It was reported last year that the 333s would leave the fleet, while the 332s would stay. But as reported above it looks like retiring high-hour 763 frames has taken priority as 787s slowly come online.
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:27 am

deltal1011man wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I thought the 200s were on their way out, but I may be wrong. The 300s make more sense to me in AAs fleet.

The 300s are/were on the way out. The 200s are basically brand new.

The US 300s are quite old, lower MTOW and have PW4000s, the only Pratt in the American fleet.


Don't forget the JT8Ds on their mAAd dogs!.... also on the way out.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:45 am

ericm2031 wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I thought the 200s were on their way out, but I may be wrong. The 300s make more sense to me in AAs fleet.


Only having 9 isn't economical with the size of their fleet. The 200's got PE, so those don't look to be going anywhere...although only having 15 isn't very economical either.

15-20 in a widebody isn't bad in the days of power by the hour and shared component pools.

As long as American doesn't start trying to fly them from more than a hub or two they will be fine. (im sure they will probably be replaced really early with Parker's shinny jet syndrome though)

CarlosSi wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
I thought the 200s were on their way out, but I may be wrong. The 300s make more sense to me in AAs fleet.

The 300s are/were on the way out. The 200s are basically brand new.

The US 300s are quite old, lower MTOW and have PW4000s, the only Pratt in the American fleet.


Don't forget the JT8Ds on their mAAd dogs!.... also on the way out.

I should have added the on the way out part so thanks for the correction.
 
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chepos
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:05 am

gatibosgru wrote:
I thought the 200s were on their way out, but I may be wrong. The 300s make more sense to me in AAs fleet.



The plan was to retire the 300, not the 200.
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ewt340
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:34 am

To be fair though, the -300 fits their European routes pretty nicely. The 3000nm-4000nm operations between JFK/PHL/MIA and Europe/South America seems more viable with A330-300 or B767-300ER.
 
Flighty
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:05 am

They have not really changed the A333 routings since US Airways days. So there is nothing untenable about the operating model. The A333 are not so old that they are a dispatch problem, nor are they fuel guzzlers. They plug along doing their job. On economies... If anything, retiring A333 harms the overall A330 economy of scale (crew scheduling). This is more similar to DL and the 777. Sure, the fleets are a little small, but the carriers have found a rhythm that works fine. If/when they have nothing better to do, AA and DL will replace these smaller fleets with new build widebodies. But I think AA realized hey, wait a minute, there is no reason to rush the retirement of A333.
 
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:20 am

Are there any A330's, 787's or even newer 767's available for lease to help expedite the departure of the old 767's? As much as I loved flying AA's 767s on milelage-runs and trips, they just need to be retired sooner than the current retirement date. The sorry condition of those planes is a poor image for AA.
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vhtje
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:33 am

According to airfleets.net, the AA A333s date from 2000/2001, whilst the A332s date from 2009 to 2014.
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mjoelnir
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:54 am

When A330neo are starting to come into the market, the price for the current used A330ceo will lower. AA could add used A330 to expedite the removal of 767 out of the fleet. They could also replace the old P&W A330-300 with newer GE or RR A330-300. I look at the 24 A330 at AA as one fleet, as long as the PW engines are not to much trouble, you will always find some MRO to service them.
 
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par13del
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:11 am

mjoelnir wrote:
When A330neo are starting to come into the market, the price for the current used A330ceo will lower. AA could add used A330 to expedite the removal of 767 out of the fleet. They could also replace the old P&W A330-300 with newer GE or RR A330-300. I look at the 24 A330 at AA as one fleet, as long as the PW engines are not to much trouble, you will always find some MRO to service them.

So the purchase of the additional 787's will affect those plans how...they are just for growth?
 
mjoelnir
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:20 am

par13del wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
When A330neo are starting to come into the market, the price for the current used A330ceo will lower. AA could add used A330 to expedite the removal of 767 out of the fleet. They could also replace the old P&W A330-300 with newer GE or RR A330-300. I look at the 24 A330 at AA as one fleet, as long as the PW engines are not to much trouble, you will always find some MRO to service them.

So the purchase of the additional 787's will affect those plans how...they are just for growth?


AA seems to want to replace its 767 fleet. They are on average older than the A330-300 at AA, 16 of 24 767 are older than the oldest A330-300, and compromise a similar sized fleet, 24. Incoming 787 could replace A330 on longer distances, while newer, more economical A330 replace older 767.
 
MKIAZ
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:41 am

ewt340 wrote:
To be fair though, the -300 fits their European routes pretty nicely. The 3000nm-4000nm operations between JFK/PHL/MIA and Europe/South America seems more viable with A330-300 or B767-300ER.


It also probably doesn't hurt that the A333 seats 13 less pax than the 77W. Must have quite a good casm.
 
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par13del
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:42 am

Well one of their reasons for cancelling the A350 order was fleet size so they would definitely need to purchase more A330's if they do not use the 787 as replacements.
 
RicFlyer
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:51 am

Per the July 26, 2018 Fleet Update all the A330s stay in the fleet and now do not have a retirement date. The plan goes out till December 2020. The fleet plan is updated every quarter and is available on the AA website.

https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com/st ... c69ac7b9a5
 
Boof02671
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:53 am

They are not buying anymore Airbus widebodies. US ordered the A350 as the 333 replacement, which was cancelled, now the new 787 order will replace first the 763 then the A330
 
MaverickM11
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:55 am

MKIAZ wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
To be fair though, the -300 fits their European routes pretty nicely. The 3000nm-4000nm operations between JFK/PHL/MIA and Europe/South America seems more viable with A330-300 or B767-300ER.


It also probably doesn't hurt that the A333 seats 13 less pax than the 77W. Must have quite a good casm.

Given AA's network and challenges in the Pacific I'd think it'd be better to retire an equivalent number of 772s rather than 333s. The 333s seem like a great option for Hawaii-mainland and East Coast Europe, maybe even lower yield South America.
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Cubsrule
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:00 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
MKIAZ wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
To be fair though, the -300 fits their European routes pretty nicely. The 3000nm-4000nm operations between JFK/PHL/MIA and Europe/South America seems more viable with A330-300 or B767-300ER.


It also probably doesn't hurt that the A333 seats 13 less pax than the 77W. Must have quite a good casm.

Given AA's network and challenges in the Pacific I'd think it'd be better to retire an equivalent number of 772s rather than 333s. The 333s seem like a great option for Hawaii-mainland and East Coast Europe, maybe even lower yield South America.


You’re thinking sort of as a hybrid between the UA domestic 772s and the AB6? Interesting thought; if fleet size is an issue, secondhand frames might be an option in this scenario.
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ewt340
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:22 pm

MKIAZ wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
To be fair though, the -300 fits their European routes pretty nicely. The 3000nm-4000nm operations between JFK/PHL/MIA and Europe/South America seems more viable with A330-300 or B767-300ER.


It also probably doesn't hurt that the A333 seats 13 less pax than the 77W. Must have quite a good casm.


Well, they fitted the B773ER with heavy premium though. A333 only have business, economy + and economy normal.
 
tcfc424
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:22 pm

I think the point that mjoelnir was trying to make is that there are newer, more efficient A330 CEO's on the lease market currently. AA could do a short-term (2 years perhaps) lease for some of these aircraft, allowing AA to immediately retire the B767. In 2 years, they would have the B787 frames to cover retiring the leased A330 fleet. In theory, I think its a good idea. On paper, it becomes less so. The configurations would have to be updated with AA seating; the planes would need to be painted, and then delivered. I'm guessing this would not happen overnight and would cover some of that 2 year gap.
 
ewt340
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:30 pm

Edited
Last edited by ewt340 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Varsity1
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:34 pm

The -200's are substantially newer and have performance/mx improvements the -300's don't.

Heavier -300's would be great but weren't available when the -200's were ordered. It is indeed a fantastic TATL aircraft.
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ewt340
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:36 pm

AA is currently planning to retire older B777-200ER. But since they have brand new B777-300ER on their fleet, currently they are keeping some newer B777-200ER to take the advantages of commonality between the two. They even planning to refurbished newer B777-200ER

The same could probably be said for A330s. The Younger A330-200 would probably mean that AA would probably keep younger A330-300 as long as possible.
A330-300 would be Hella Cheap to lease or buy in upcoming years.
 
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Polot
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:40 pm

ewt340 wrote:
MKIAZ wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
To be fair though, the -300 fits their European routes pretty nicely. The 3000nm-4000nm operations between JFK/PHL/MIA and Europe/South America seems more viable with A330-300 or B767-300ER.


It also probably doesn't hurt that the A333 seats 13 less pax than the 77W. Must have quite a good casm.


Well, they fitted the B773ER with heavy premium though. A333 only have business, economy + and economy normal.

The A333s don’t even have economy +, AA just gave the Y+ designation to the seats that always have more legroom (bulkhead and exit rows).
ewt340 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
They are not buying anymore Airbus widebodies. US ordered the A350 as the 333 replacement, which was cancelled, now the new 787 order will replace first the 763 then the A330


Personally speaking, since they have houng A332, they probably would lease or buy used A333. Especially since knowing A333 fits their routes perfectly and the fact that it got one of the best fuel efficiency on shorter routes compared B787-9. Also, second hand A333ceo would be Hella Cheap to lease or buy. Cockpit commonality with other A320's also help training and transition compared to B737 and B787.

They replace older B777-200ER with B787-9, but they are still keeping some newer one since their B773ER are still brand new. So they would take advantages of commonality. So this would happen to A330s as well.
And since they are going to retire many aircraft MD80's, Embraer, B757, B767. It would mean that they would operate less aircraft type. This mean they wouldn't have to worry about operating too many aircraft type since they would only have B787, B777, B737, A320's, and A330.


AA hasn’t replaced any 77Es yet. Sure you can lease cheap A330s but why? They just ordered more 787s to eventually replace the 767s and A333s. Yes they could maybe replace them faster with leased A330s, but you guys don’t seem to get that AA wants to cut (future) capacity some. They don’t want ~25 used A330s to replace the 767s and older A333s plus the 47 787s they just ordered. That is too much expansion.

Also replacing 767s with used A333s is a huge step up in capacity. Hence the 22 incoming 788s
 
soflaflyer
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:43 pm

At one time there was discussion that AA may want to pick up A330s if EY decided to park theirs. Not sure if this was a rumor or was something AA was actually considering. Anyone out there with any knowledge about this and if there has been any movement?
 
Flighty
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:54 pm

MKIAZ wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
To be fair though, the -300 fits their European routes pretty nicely. The 3000nm-4000nm operations between JFK/PHL/MIA and Europe/South America seems more viable with A330-300 or B767-300ER.


It also probably doesn't hurt that the A333 seats 13 less pax than the 77W. Must have quite a good casm.


That's the spirit. If they were going to buy new A350 or B787 (zillion dollars) the benefit would be quite low from replacing A333. That is a big check to write and there would need to be a financial justification. And there isn't, not at this time.
 
SteelChair
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:55 pm

Granted, the benefits of fleet standardization seem to be overstated, but i would think there would be benefit to keeping them given the large number of new narrowbody Airbii that AA has placed into service recently. A320 series Captain to A330 series Captain is probably much quicker than A320 series to B787 series upgrade. Same for FO's Does anyone here know the training footprint? The industry is profitable right now, and lots of pilots are making the switch, probably more than 100 a year (just a WAG).
 
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Polot
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:01 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Granted, the benefits of fleet standardization seem to be overstated, but i would think there would be benefit to keeping them given the large number of new narrowbody Airbii that AA has placed into service recently. A320 series Captain to A330 series Captain is probably much quicker than A320 series to B787 series upgrade. Same for FO's Does anyone here know the training footprint? The industry is profitable right now, and lots of pilots are making the switch, probably more than 100 a year (just a WAG).

For an organization like AA fleet placement is based on seniority, not your current equipment. A new A330 FO can have come from the MD-80, A320, 737, 757/767, 777, or 787 series, it doesn’t matter as long as they have the seniority. They will all get the same training no matter to ensure that the crews are consistent, which is likely longer and more rigorous than Airbus’s and Boeing’s minimal requirements anyways.

Crew training benefits usually only come into play when the families you are looking at are the only models in the fleet. That is not that case for airlines with large fleets composed of many types from both manufacturers like the US3.
Last edited by Polot on Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:02 pm

Flighty wrote:
So there is nothing untenable about the operating model. The A333 are not so old that they are a dispatch problem, nor are they fuel guzzlers. They plug along doing their job. On economies... If anything, retiring A333 harms the overall A330 economy of scale (crew scheduling). This is more similar to DL and the 777. Sure, the fleets are a little small, but the carriers have found a rhythm that works fine. If/when they have nothing better to do, AA and DL will replace these smaller fleets with new build widebodies. But I think AA realized hey, wait a minute, there is no reason to rush the retirement of A333.


If they had a rhythm that works fine they wouldn't have announced a plan to retire them.

AA got stuck in a pincer movement - the decline of long-haul yields has them refocusing on domestic ops, and significantly higher profits at Delta and Southwest has them reviewing capital spending.
 
alan3
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:05 pm

HPAEAA wrote:
I think the original plan was to get rid of the 333s quickly because of the small fleet however the plans got reshuffled earlier this year with the expanded 788/789 order, instead of rushing out the 333, they decided to fast track the 763 retirements with 788 replacements and later replace the 333 with 789s.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... a330s/amp/


Is that true, that the 789 is really the A333 replacement? The A333 is just about the shortest-range widebody out there, while the 789 is doing Australia-UK nonstop. I wouldn't have thought they were natural compatible, or that the 789 is what is sought for PHL and CLT TATL.
 
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Polot
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:11 pm

alan3 wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
I think the original plan was to get rid of the 333s quickly because of the small fleet however the plans got reshuffled earlier this year with the expanded 788/789 order, instead of rushing out the 333, they decided to fast track the 763 retirements with 788 replacements and later replace the 333 with 789s.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... a330s/amp/


Is that true, that the 789 is really the A333 replacement? The A333 is just about the shortest-range widebody out there, while the 789 is doing Australia-UK nonstop. I wouldn't have thought they were natural compatible, or that the 789 is what is sought for PHL and CLT TATL.

You are looking too much at max capability. The 787 is not a dog on shorter routes and perfectly competitive with the A330.
 
Flighty
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:15 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Flighty wrote:
So there is nothing untenable about the operating model. The A333 are not so old that they are a dispatch problem, nor are they fuel guzzlers. They plug along doing their job. On economies... If anything, retiring A333 harms the overall A330 economy of scale (crew scheduling). This is more similar to DL and the 777. Sure, the fleets are a little small, but the carriers have found a rhythm that works fine. If/when they have nothing better to do, AA and DL will replace these smaller fleets with new build widebodies. But I think AA realized hey, wait a minute, there is no reason to rush the retirement of A333.


If they had a rhythm that works fine they wouldn't have announced a plan to retire them.

AA got stuck in a pincer movement - the decline of long-haul yields has them refocusing on domestic ops, and significantly higher profits at Delta and Southwest has them reviewing capital spending.


I appreciate your reply, but why weren't they focusing on high profits before? The reduction in longhaul flying should now make it even easier to retire the A333 and backfill with 788. But those 788 are expensive. And there is no revenue upside on that assignment. Maybe there was an engine negotiation they needed to figure out.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:18 pm

Polot wrote:

AA hasn’t replaced any 77Es yet. Sure you can lease cheap A330s but why? They just ordered more 787s to eventually replace the 767s and A333s. Yes they could maybe replace them faster with leased A330s, but you guys don’t seem to get that AA wants to cut (future) capacity some. They don’t want ~25 used A330s to replace the 767s and older A333s plus the 47 787s they just ordered. That is too much expansion.


because they are cheap, USA airlines have been driving down CAPEX.

Polot wrote:
Also replacing 767s with used A333s is a huge step up in capacity. Hence the 22 incoming 788s


A 787-8 is also quite a step up in capacity.

AA has still 29 787 on order. To replace all A330, 24, all 767, 24 and all 777-200ER, 47, they need 95 frames, an huge investment if all are replaced by new 787 and they have still to order 66 frames.
Last edited by mjoelnir on Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
IAmGaroott
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:19 pm

Polot wrote:
alan3 wrote:
HPAEAA wrote:
I think the original plan was to get rid of the 333s quickly because of the small fleet however the plans got reshuffled earlier this year with the expanded 788/789 order, instead of rushing out the 333, they decided to fast track the 763 retirements with 788 replacements and later replace the 333 with 789s.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thepointsg ... a330s/amp/


Is that true, that the 789 is really the A333 replacement? The A333 is just about the shortest-range widebody out there, while the 789 is doing Australia-UK nonstop. I wouldn't have thought they were natural compatible, or that the 789 is what is sought for PHL and CLT TATL.

You are looking too much at max capability. The 787 is not a dog on shorter routes and perfectly competitive with the A330.


Since the 787-9 is replacing AA's 777-200ERs, would that cause a future order of more 787-9s to replace the A333 fleet?
 
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par13del
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:31 pm

Or they become a candidate for the MOM or the 787-10???? I assume they can switch models without much penalty if any...
 
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American 767
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:32 pm

IAmGaroott wrote:
Polot wrote:
alan3 wrote:

Is that true, that the 789 is really the A333 replacement? The A333 is just about the shortest-range widebody out there, while the 789 is doing Australia-UK nonstop. I wouldn't have thought they were natural compatible, or that the 789 is what is sought for PHL and CLT TATL.

You are looking too much at max capability. The 787 is not a dog on shorter routes and perfectly competitive with the A330.


Since the 787-9 is replacing AA's 777-200ERs, would that cause a future order of more 787-9s to replace the A333 fleet?


Yes it is true that the 787-9 will be the 77E replacement, and it could also eventually replace the A333. But fleet replacement isn't just replacing each airplane on a one to one basis. It also depends on route structure, capacity needed, global economy, and if there is any expansion plan or not. It depends on all of that.
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Polot
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Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:42 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Polot wrote:

AA hasn’t replaced any 77Es yet. Sure you can lease cheap A330s but why? They just ordered more 787s to eventually replace the 767s and A333s. Yes they could maybe replace them faster with leased A330s, but you guys don’t seem to get that AA wants to cut (future) capacity some. They don’t want ~25 used A330s to replace the 767s and older A333s plus the 47 787s they just ordered. That is too much expansion.


because they are cheap, USA airlines have been driving down CAPEX.

Polot wrote:
Also replacing 767s with used A333s is a huge step up in capacity. Hence the 22 incoming 788s


A 787-8 is also quite a step up in capacity.

AA has still 29 787 on order. To replace all A330, 24, all 767, 24 and all 777-200ER, 47, they need 95 frames, an huge investment if all are replaced by new 787 and they have still to order 66 frames.

AA has 50 787s on order (22 788s with deliveries starting in 2020 leased from BCC and 28 789s on direct order, one was just delivered a few days ago).

I expect a future MOM (whether is from Airbus or Boeing) will handle many of the current 767 and A332 duties (and some 787/A333 routes), freeing up 787s for 777 replacement down the road.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 16773
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:43 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
MKIAZ wrote:

It also probably doesn't hurt that the A333 seats 13 less pax than the 77W. Must have quite a good casm.

Given AA's network and challenges in the Pacific I'd think it'd be better to retire an equivalent number of 772s rather than 333s. The 333s seem like a great option for Hawaii-mainland and East Coast Europe, maybe even lower yield South America.


You’re thinking sort of as a hybrid between the UA domestic 772s and the AB6? Interesting thought; if fleet size is an issue, secondhand frames might be an option in this scenario.

Right...the capacity+ of the 772 but fewer J seats and none of the weight required for longer haul
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
IAmGaroott
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:37 pm

Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:46 pm

par13del wrote:
Or they become a candidate for the MOM or the 787-10???? I assume they can switch models without much penalty if any...


I was thinking this too. The 787-10 would be great for high capacity hops across the pond or down to South America. Even if they didn't order that, it's safe to assume AA will order the "797" to at least replace the 757 on TATL and HI flights. With some route reshuffling of existing wide-bodies, plus the ones that are on order, the MoM could be the last long haul metal AA needs for a while. :twocents:
 
777PHX
Posts: 814
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:36 am

Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:48 pm

ewt340 wrote:
AA is currently planning to retire older B777-200ER.


According to whom, because AA hasn't stated anything of the sort?

American 767 wrote:
But fleet replacement isn't just replacing each airplane on a one to one basis. It also depends on route structure, capacity needed, global economy, and if there is any expansion plan or not. It depends on all of that.


Exactly. I'm not sure why everyone here is assuming AA is going to replace capacity at a 1:1 rate, but that's probably not going to be the case.
 
jagraham
Posts: 558
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:08 pm

Don't forget post 22 - there is a statement from AA about what they are going to do through 2020.

It appears that AA is keeping aircraft numbers approximately constant. Remaining 45 MD80s, and the 20 E190s are gone between now and 2019. Still 5 767s at the end of 2020. That is where the emphasis is.

Also, as far as used aircraft, used A319s are coming into AA. So it seems that AAs attitude towards new vs used is changing . .
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 980
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:07 pm

American 767 wrote:
IAmGaroott wrote:
Polot wrote:
You are looking too much at max capability. The 787 is not a dog on shorter routes and perfectly competitive with the A330.


Since the 787-9 is replacing AA's 777-200ERs, would that cause a future order of more 787-9s to replace the A333 fleet?


Yes it is true that the 787-9 will be the 77E replacement, and it could also eventually replace the A333. But fleet replacement isn't just replacing each airplane on a one to one basis. It also depends on route structure, capacity needed, global economy, and if there is any expansion plan or not. It depends on all of that.


777PHX wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
AA is currently planning to retire older B777-200ER.


According to whom, because AA hasn't stated anything of the sort?

American 767 wrote:
But fleet replacement isn't just replacing each airplane on a one to one basis. It also depends on route structure, capacity needed, global economy, and if there is any expansion plan or not. It depends on all of that.


Exactly. I'm not sure why everyone here is assuming AA is going to replace capacity at a 1:1 rate, but that's probably not going to be the case.


So in the BoA/Merrill Lynch presentation back in May (Slide 24 "Ensure Long Term Financial Strength") is where AA disclosed that the order for 40 787s will replace the 767, A333 & some older 772s, there was some more interesting stuff in that deck about fleet sub-type reduction & the delivery schedule through 2022. I haven't seen anything official on the retirement schedule other than the sub-fleet reductions in the same deck.

Found an article on the update fleet guidance (not sure what the article source is though), if you look at the plan through 2020, the 763 is the only wide body type that will be reduced, with the addition of 12 new 788s in 2020 and the retention of the 333s the fleet remains a bit longer it looks like the haul fleet will be down by 5 aircraft in 2020 vs 2018. I suspect that they're keeping plans beyond that pretty fluid given the MOM that Boeing is working on, who knows what could happen in the market between now and then.

BoA Merrill Lynch Presentation: https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com/st ... 810e0df1a1
Info on Retirements from tpg: https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-767-re ... ins-a330s/

*Updated the retirement statements based on the article & added a link to the fleet retirements
1.4mm and counting...
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6893
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

Re: American A333s

Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:54 pm

I had the chance to fly PHL-CDG in 2013 on US, and it was an A333. I was expecting a tired, old aircraft, and instead I thought it looked fairly new and definitely in very good state of repair and conservation. Of course that may have been an exception in an otherwise old subfleet of A333s and, more importantly, five years can make a big difference.

I think that AA is right in simplifying their long-haul fleet. As others have said, the strategy appears to be the retirement of the 763ERs first, and the A333s at a later stage. It will be sad when they leave, for they are excellent trans-Atlantic workhorses. Again, good for AA that they are modernizing their fleet! Too bad they decided not to get A359s or A339s.
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