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lightsaber
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:37 am

na wrote:
blooc350 wrote:
What a beauty this will be in the SQ colors!

Image



Rear 3/4 is the best angle for a long 777. Indeed good looking here in this rendering, overall it wont quite match the beauty and grandness of a 747-8.

Oh, that is lovely. The 744/748 was my current favorite, but that rendering changed my mind.

Wow!

Oh, I so want to know empty weight. That and cruise efficiency impact how many I think will sell.

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speedbird52
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:14 am

I never thought I would say this but Boeing have managed to turn the 777 into a work of art
 
OldAeroGuy
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:00 am

questions wrote:
When in commercial use, at what point will the wing extensions be placed in the downward position? At what point with they be return to “the upright and locked position”?


Tip extension will be initiated as the airplane crosses the hold line and enters the active runway.

Tip fold will be initiated as the airplane slows on the runway (less than 60kts?) and will be completed before entering the taxiways.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:04 am

OldAeroGuy wrote:
BREECH wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:


Ask me that when you see a tail-less airplane arrive at your gate!


To this brilliant mind "fully-assembled" means "all parts attached", not "uhm... we need to polish some logistics". And this little detail is important in this particular conversation for two reasons. One, the Daily Mail is a fascist outlet that has NEVER published one word of truth. And two, when Boeing rolled out 787 on 7/8/7 it was more of a Spruce Goose than the actual Spruce Goose. Only that one could actually fly. So how do we know this is not another exercise in plywood painting?

On a side note, shouldn't structural testing include the rudder?


Here's a link to a picture of the A380 in its static test rig. Note the lack of engines, horizontal tail and vertical tail.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/A3UPt.jpg

Both the A380 and the 777-9 were complete for structural test.

To further illustrate the point, here is the oldest of the 23,000 A380 photos in the A.net database showing a complete airframe:



Those who were around at the time will recall the great deal of wailing and gnashing of teeth about the apparent incomplete nature of this airframe which was to be used for static tests.

Interestingly when I searched for MSN 5000, it also gave me the A350 static test article, which is equally spartan:



V/F
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:33 am

questions wrote:
When in commercial use, at what point will the wing extensions be placed in the downward position? At what point with they be return to “the upright and locked position”?


The crew will lower them manually before starting the takeoff roll, but after clearing a point (to be determined on an airfield-by-airfield basis) where the span with tips extended will not cause clearance issues.

They will raise automatically upon landing.
 
travaz
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Re: First fully assembled 777X photos are out

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:09 am

BREECH wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
The first fully assembled 777X jetliner has rolled off the Boeing production line at the manufacturer's Everett factory in Washington state:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/trav ... liner.html

Wow, can't wait to see this out of the hanger and flying! Look at those winglets!

Fully assembled... except for the tail and engines. Do they only hire people who are genetically unable to tell the truth? Would veritaphobic be the proper word?



What a total waste of 1's and 0's.
 
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:34 am

neutrino wrote:
vahancrazy wrote:
Are there any visible diffrences from classic 777 when flying?
Maybe you can recognize the 777-9 due to length and 4 exits but I expect the -8 to be similar enough to a -200.

The raked wingtips, for one, is the most discernible.

77Ls and 77Fs are -200s with raked wingtips, so take care to discern.


49Paralell wrote:
The A350 ULR's range is estimated to reach 17,960 Km, so it will come down strictly to economics as the 777X won't surpass it.

"surpass it" at what?

Range? --that's not an accurate statement. Boeing previously advertised a less-dense 778X at 9300nm without ACT. The proposal for QF hasn't been made public, but if it just gains the same that a tanked 77L offered, then that'd put it at nearly 9900nm and ahead of the A359ULR; and that's still calculated for 3class and 9abreast.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
carlokiii
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:42 am

seabosdca wrote:
questions wrote:
When in commercial use, at what point will the wing extensions be placed in the downward position? At what point with they be return to “the upright and locked position”?


The crew will lower them manually before starting the takeoff roll, but after clearing a point (to be determined on an airfield-by-airfield basis) where the span with tips extended will not cause clearance issues.

They will raise automatically upon landing.

Quick question... While the 777X will be categorized as a Code E plane at the gates, it's still Code F on the runway. Several airfields (HND and MNL come to mind) have limited A380 operations, such as runway-taxiway separation limitations that doesn't allow an A380 operating normally like a 777 would, ie. adjacent taxiway must be vacant when an A380 is active on the runway and v.v., or increased air traffic separations due to the wake turbulence of a Code F aircraft.

So wouldn't the 777X fall victim to the same operational constraints?
 
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:55 am

Matt6461, thanks for making me aware of the additional variables, particularly engine displacement change from centreline, that I was not aware of.
 
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:22 am

carlokiii wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
questions wrote:
When in commercial use, at what point will the wing extensions be placed in the downward position? At what point with they be return to “the upright and locked position”?


The crew will lower them manually before starting the takeoff roll, but after clearing a point (to be determined on an airfield-by-airfield basis) where the span with tips extended will not cause clearance issues.

They will raise automatically upon landing.

Quick question... While the 777X will be categorized as a Code E plane at the gates, it's still Code F on the runway. Several airfields (HND and MNL come to mind) have limited A380 operations, such as runway-taxiway separation limitations that doesn't allow an A380 operating normally like a 777 would, ie. adjacent taxiway must be vacant when an A380 is active on the runway and v.v., or increased air traffic separations due to the wake turbulence of a Code F aircraft.

So wouldn't the 777X fall victim to the same operational constraints?


I think that's a very likely chance for those sorts of airfields.

This is something each airfield will have to deal with when creating their specific plans and procedures.

Another thing to consider is that the B777X will be allowed to fly with passengers with the folding mechanism disabled. That means it will have to be treated as a Code F aircraft at the gate and when taxiing in that situation. So airfields will have to have plans and procedures in place to handle such occurrences.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:44 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
Interestingly when I searched for MSN 5000, it also gave me the A350 static test article, which is equally spartan:



That's a great illustration to put BREECH's mind at rest - all the red bits on there are *test interfaces* - so the massive great barge-board attached where the tail would normally be...? That has to be a solid block of e.g. steel so it can push, pull and twist tons and tons of load into the back of the aircraft.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
B764er
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:34 pm

If Bristol had gotten hold of two GeNX engines from the future, the Brabazon would've been a pratical reality. It would've left the Comet in the dust.
 
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:37 pm

Those 777x wings are huge! I wonder how a 10x or even an 11x would look like (if they happened, 10x being a posibility) We are on our way to the first 300ft Airliner.
 
BREECH
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Re: First fully assembled 777X photos are out

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:49 pm

OldAeroGuy wrote:
Here's a link to a picture of the A380 in its static test rig. Note the lack of engines, horizontal tail and vertical tail.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/A3UPt.jpg

Both the A380 and the 777-9 were complete for structural test.

Also don't know why you're worried about what the Daily Mail says since you don't believe them in any case.

That's actually a good point.

Thank you for the photo. What a rig! I actually had to note the presence of fuselage before I noted the lack of tail. And I suppose that whole contraption moves to load the frame?
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:56 pm

carlokiii wrote:
Quick question... While the 777X will be categorized as a Code E plane at the gates, it's still Code F on the runway. Several airfields (HND and MNL come to mind) have limited A380 operations, such as runway-taxiway separation limitations that doesn't allow an A380 operating normally like a 777 would, ie. adjacent taxiway must be vacant when an A380 is active on the runway and v.v., or increased air traffic separations due to the wake turbulence of a Code F aircraft. So wouldn't the 777X fall victim to the same operational constraints?


It will depend on what specific reasons the A380's operations are restricted. The 777X's span with wingtips extended is 8m less than the the A380's though I expect that is not enough to make a difference (since it would only be 4m per side). And Wake Turbulence is more an issue of Operating Weight and a 777X landing weight will be significantly lower than an A380's so air traffic separation will probably be the same as a 777-300ER.
 
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Re: First fully assembled 777X photos are out

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:22 pm

BREECH wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:
Here's a link to a picture of the A380 in its static test rig. Note the lack of engines, horizontal tail and vertical tail.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/A3UPt.jpg

Both the A380 and the 777-9 were complete for structural test.

Also don't know why you're worried about what the Daily Mail says since you don't believe them in any case.

That's actually a good point.

Thank you for the photo. What a rig! I actually had to note the presence of fuselage before I noted the lack of tail. And I suppose that whole contraption moves to load the frame?


The white frame in the picture doesn't move.

The white bits below the fuselage and engine struts are bolted to the factory floor hold down these parts of the airframe.

The white bits above the wings and fuselage push down on the floor when the blue load harness pulls up on the wings and fuselage via load cells simulating air loads on the airframe.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:14 pm

Something about thing wings, compared to the length (proportions) and the upturned bits in this pic remind me of an MD-11. I can't figure out why, but it just does.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dm4kNuLWsAAKdrv.jpg
vs.


Maybe it's just me...
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neutrino
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:44 pm

lightsaber wrote:
278*10=2,780. A wee bit beyond the certification limit. ;)
Lightsaber

And at that number of bums, not even Ewoks can fit into that cabin, well maybe Porgs.
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BREECH
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Re: First fully assembled 777X photos are out

Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:12 pm

OldAeroGuy wrote:
BREECH wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:
Here's a link to a picture of the A380 in its static test rig. Note the lack of engines, horizontal tail and vertical tail.

https://i.stack.imgur.com/A3UPt.jpg

Both the A380 and the 777-9 were complete for structural test.

Also don't know why you're worried about what the Daily Mail says since you don't believe them in any case.

That's actually a good point.

Thank you for the photo. What a rig! I actually had to note the presence of fuselage before I noted the lack of tail. And I suppose that whole contraption moves to load the frame?


The white frame in the picture doesn't move.

The white bits below the fuselage and engine struts are bolted to the factory floor hold down these parts of the airframe.

The white bits above the wings and fuselage push down on the floor when the blue load harness pulls up on the wings and fuselage via load cells simulating air loads on the airframe.

Do you happen to also know the (maximum) amplitude of the load cycles?
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dakota123
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:28 pm

24 feet (!)
One of my favorite breaking things vids...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai2HmvAXcU0
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OldAeroGuy
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:18 pm

dakota123 wrote:
24 feet (!)
One of my favorite breaking things vids...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai2HmvAXcU0


Perhaps more deflection than 24ft for the 777-9 because:

1) Wing material is graphite composite rather than aluminum

2) 777-9 MTOW is 42% higher (775,000lb vs 545,000lb) so more load applied

3) 777-9 wing span is 18% greater (235.5ft vs 200ft)
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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lebda
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:52 pm

Good Lord, that thing is a behemoth. I love it.
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Prost
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:16 am

questions wrote:
When in commercial use, at what point will the wing extensions be placed in the downward position? At what point with they be return to “the upright and locked position”?


When it turns on to the runway in some airports, and when it turns onto the taxiways in others.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: First fully assembled 777X photos are out

Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:57 am

BREECH wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:
BREECH wrote:
That's actually a good point.

Thank you for the photo. What a rig! I actually had to note the presence of fuselage before I noted the lack of tail. And I suppose that whole contraption moves to load the frame?


The white frame in the picture doesn't move.

The white bits below the fuselage and engine struts are bolted to the factory floor hold down these parts of the airframe.

The white bits above the wings and fuselage push down on the floor when the blue load harness pulls up on the wings and fuselage via load cells simulating air loads on the airframe.

Do you happen to also know the (maximum) amplitude of the load cycles?


That's not an answerable question. Every point will have a different max load... also depending on load direction. And everything depends on the aircraft being tested and what it's designed for so it's not like there's a standard - even assuming anyone would divulge anything on an internet forum.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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BirdBrain
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:20 pm

Prost wrote:
questions wrote:
When in commercial use, at what point will the wing extensions be placed in the downward position? At what point with they be return to “the upright and locked position”?


When it turns on to the runway in some airports, and when it turns onto the taxiways in others.

I agree with you. I would like to think it would be part of the runway turning on/off checklist or with flaps extension/retraction, unless it requires some external help, which I doubt. If not, chances of forgetting to fold and running in to things is there. Can't be so much wear and tear by regularly folding and unfolding.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing Rolls out Static Test 777-9X

Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:26 pm

BirdBrain wrote:
I would like to think it would be part of the runway turning on/off checklist or with flaps extension/retraction...


That is correct. The 777-9 ACAP details how the system works, including EICAS warnings/notifications and pre-takeoff and post-landing checklists and how the system operates in automatic and manual modes.

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