London Stansted has said today that they aim to secure flights to at least 25 long haul destinations over the next 5 years. Those destinations include but not limited to

Asia - HKG, NRT or HND, CAN, SIN, PEK, BKK, ICN, PVG, MNL

US - LAX, SFO, ORD, MIA

Canada - YUL, YVR

India - DEL, BOM, CMB

Africa - JNB

Middle East - KWI

https://mediacentre.stanstedairport.com ... ul-growth/

Is this target ambitious? Are there any other destinations they may look at trying to attract?

I'd say it's quite ambitious. Apart from US/Canada/JNB - I'd say it'd be pointless for any airline to open the other routes when all of those airports are accessible via DXB, which potentially is increasing to x2 daily. I don't think they'd be able to attract an asian or indian carrier to STN, and unless they're solely relying on the likes of WOW or Primera (With which YUL and MIA could well open up soon), I don't think it's likely at all.

But i'm certainly no expert - just my 2 cents.

Nice ambition but I would have thought the likes of EK, QR, TK and maybe even ET might see STN as a good network feed point for them....but STN-JNB direct? STN-JNB direct in next years? Nope

If they want premium long-haul passengers they will need to upgrade the passenger experience. I hadn't flown from there for years until I passed through in January and was shocked at what a run-down and crowded dump it is. Not as bad as Luton, but bad all the same.

I'm surprised DOH isn't on the list of potential routes, I wouldn't be surprised to see Qatar try to give Emirates a run for their money with the traffic to Asia and Australia.

Not too sure how they plan to get any of the Indian destinations workings, most of the Indian population in the UK lives far closer to Heathrow airport and I don't see them changing their preferred airport unless there's a massive difference in price which would justify travelling the extra distance.

Well LGWJNB didn't work, so I have serious doubts about STNJNB, anyway the best of luck to them.

mattyfitzg wrote:

I'd say it's quite ambitious. Apart from US/Canada/JNB - I'd say it'd be pointless for any airline to open the other routes when all of those airports are accessible via DXB, which potentially is increasing to x2 daily. I don't think they'd be able to attract an asian or indian carrier to STN, and unless they're solely relying on the likes of WOW or Primera (With which YUL and MIA could well open up soon), I don't think it's likely at all.

But i'm certainly no expert - just my 2 cents.

I'm no expert either, just cheaper. My opinion is free !!!

STN is always going to struggle for longhaul service on geography alone. West and south of London feed LHR or LGW naturally and south-east is problematic as you have to travel upstream to Dartford to cross the Thames. The West Midlands probably feeds LHR as well, and STN's natural market of Essex and East Anglia are relatively less densely populated.

Add on the dreaded Brexit uncertainty for the EuroLoCos, and the prospect does not look good for anybody except EK and possibly QR and TK for 1-stop longhauls eastwards, which is not what STN are looking for.

Greater China seems the most realistic for me. HKG could work for Hong Kong Airlines; they already fly long-haul (LAX) and Cathay flies to LHR and LGW, so STN-HKG seems like a good fit for them. And PVG/PEK/wherever in China for Hainan or some of those obscure Chinese carriers.

Very [extremely] optimistic. Unless some long-haul LCC steps in, I don't see how any mainline carrier would want to fly into STN at this very moment...the passenger experience is as bad as can be.
Maybe EK can fly one daily rotation, and syphon some passengers through DXB... but direct routes?
Additionally, as much as STN is convenient for me being an Essex boy, the catchment area is sparsely populated, not the wealthiest, and hard to get to for a lot of people...

RB211LTN wrote:

If they want premium long-haul passengers they will need to upgrade the passenger experience. I hadn't flown from there for years until I passed through in January and was shocked at what a run-down and crowded dump it is. Not as bad as Luton, but bad all the same.

Agreed. I've been through there 3 times this year at various times of the day and it is extremely crowded and very much aimed at low cost travellers with their range of shops and food outlets. Only 1 lounge and 1 set of toilets in the departure lounge.

They are opening an arrivals building which i assume will mean the departure area increasing.

Ken O'Toole adopted a similar strategy when CEO of MAN. Obviously not all were successful, but he made good inroads (which continue to this day).

jamsco99 wrote:

Agreed. I've been through there 3 times this year at various times of the day and it is extremely crowded and very much aimed at low cost travellers with their range of shops and food outlets. .

On top of my head there are Mulberry, Ted Baker and Hugo Boss shops in STN. While those are not luxury shops (they would be premium or "affordable luxury" brands) those are not either your Primark competitors.

Pakistan would also work from STN

I’m not quite sure who these airlines are that are going to open the routes they’ve said.

With such an established route network from LHR, which most people use as a default search airport, and LGW slowly catching up behind it.

Where STN fits in, is in the low cost market, flights to Bangkok & Phuket for example with perhaps Air Asia X, trying to entice those ‘Gap Year’ Travellers is a more sensible Avenue to explore.

As has been said in previous posts, STN is not a Premium airport, sadly that’s fact.

OMAA

SCQ83 wrote:

jamsco99 wrote:

Agreed. I've been through there 3 times this year at various times of the day and it is extremely crowded and very much aimed at low cost travellers with their range of shops and food outlets. .

On top of my head there are Mulberry, Ted Baker and Hugo Boss shops in STN. While those are not luxury shops (they would be premium or "affordable luxury" brands) those are not either your Primark competitors.

I think more than "expensive brands" STN needs lounge and [quieter] terminal space, with specific gates assigned to long haul destinations with enough seating capacity and as far away as possible from the infamous FR madding crowds (FR flyer here!!).

LHR01 wrote:

Pakistan would also work from STN

Pakistan, yes, I could easily see working from STN (East End being only up the road, along the A127), together with maybe Thailand and some other selected leisure oriented routes (but then again, in this case one should try to avoid duplication from what is being offered at Gatters... so there you go).

LCC long haul I could see. But premium service I don't think so.

I'd say it's very optimistic. Some of these destinations may work if they can find an airline for it, but definitely not all of them.

RB211LTN wrote:

If they want premium long-haul passengers they will need to upgrade the passenger experience. I hadn't flown from there for years until I passed through in January and was shocked at what a run-down and crowded dump it is. Not as bad as Luton, but bad all the same.

There's a pretty big catchment area that would still work well and most people aren't using lounges. Yeah, it has an LCC feel, but if someone from Cambridge or NE London is looking, even a subpar airport is going to be making it all the way to Heathrow or Gatwick.

Existing facilities are maxed out. Departure lounge is full, restaurants queued out stopping people getting past and the longest of the longest walks through shops of any airport ever. We all know retail is important but MAG have made STN a nightmare for frequent fliers. Cheap, nasty and nowhere to sit. You can’t even escape to the satellites as there’s no way back if you have a gate change without picking up a help phone and waiting for someone to assist. Crazy airport, following in the footsteps of EDI and MAN in accepting loads of traffic but not builiding out enough facilities. At least MAG have a MAN plan....

Emirates and Qatar are exceptional airlines, but outwith the Primera’s and locos, not sure who is going to fly long haul from STN. Norwegian are happy at LGW and Primera are going to need a lot of cash in the bank to survive their expansion plans for 2019 IMHO.

Shame as the original STN was a thing of beauty and Sat 1 and 2 are fine facilities, even Sat 3 is palatial in FR terms, but they trap you in the terminal intentionally. Horrible.

Inbound China-UK has been huge at LHR this year with CZ, JD, HU and CA all upping capacity or starting services, with CA’s CTU service using Gatters. Think STN missed that boat.

LHR and LGA are maxed out, and growing demand for long-haul will mean some will have to go to other airports in the London region. Likely this proposal is to try to get some investment for new facilities.

It is good to read several posts that are critical of Stansted. I have used it perhaps a hundred times in the last ten years. In my experience it has been a period of relentless and apparently deliberate worsening of standards. Under BAA management it was an attractive, light and airy place with large amounts of seating. Under MAG management a vile shopping arcade has been created which forces people to walk along a curved crowded line of shops during which they are accosted by aggressive sales people. This wretched place place has reduced the natural lighting and crowded all passengers waiting for their flights which seems like a jail yard. The place has become so bad that I now use Heathrow whenever possible. I fear that the new arrivals building will not help but simply allow MAG to build more shops.

I cannot imagine that airline managements have anything other than a confrontational relationship with this place,. If so they will surely be accurately be reflecting the views of their passengers.

To be brutally honest i see very few of these routes coming to STN.

Now one I do expect to see within 5 years is DOH.

mattyfitzg wrote:

I'd say it's quite ambitious. Apart from US/Canada/JNB - I'd say it'd be pointless for any airline to open the other routes when all of those airports are accessible via DXB, which potentially is increasing to x2 daily. I don't think they'd be able to attract an asian or indian carrier to STN, and unless they're solely relying on the likes of WOW or Primera (With which YUL and MIA could well open up soon), I don't think it's likely at all.

But i'm certainly no expert - just my 2 cents.

Do you have any source about going double daily?

Sheridan125 wrote:

It is good to read several posts that are critical of Stansted. I have used it perhaps a hundred times in the last ten years. In my experience it has been a period of relentless and apparently deliberate worsening of standards. Under BAA management it was an attractive, light and airy place with large amounts of seating. Under MAG management a vile shopping arcade has been created which forces people to walk along a curved crowded line of shops during which they are accosted by aggressive sales people. This wretched place place has reduced the natural lighting and crowded all passengers waiting for their flights which seems like a jail yard. The place has become so bad that I now use Heathrow whenever possible. I fear that the new arrivals building will not help but simply allow MAG to build more shops.

I cannot imagine that airline managements have anything other than a confrontational relationship with this place,. If so they will surely be accurately be reflecting the views of their passengers.

And if being really specific. 1 bus every 15 minutes to the serve the 2 long stay car parks, often means a wait of up to 45 minutes to get to the car parks.
I now no longer use Stansted

qf789 wrote:

London Stansted has said today that they aim to secure flights to at least 25 long haul destinations over the next 5 years. Those destinations include but not limited to

Asia - HKG, NRT or HND, CAN, SIN, PEK, BKK, ICN, PVG, MNL

US - LAX, SFO, ORD, MIA

Canada - YUL, YVR

India - DEL, BOM, CMB

Africa - JNB

Middle East - KWI

https://mediacentre.stanstedairport.com ... ul-growth/

Is this target ambitious? Are there any other destinations they may look at trying to attract?

That's a huge wishlist (target) for destinations to Asia. I'm sure that many pax on the STN-DXB flight on Emirates use DXB to connect to many of the destinations in Asia including India, KWI and JNB as well, so I'm sure Emirates wouldn't be too thrilled with this as they could potentially loose a lot of connecting traffic if any of these nonstop flights eventually happen.

Also, five years isn't much time to get all of this sorted out with the airlines. I'm sure the U.S. airlines wouldn't want to launch their aircraft into STN since they would likely have to pull one of their LHR frequencies in order to make STN possible. The closest thing that I think could happen with this is a seasonal ORD-STN route on United.

There's been a reasonable amount of interest in LCC operations from Korea to Europe recently, and I reckon, if such services ever commenced then ICN-STN operated by a Jin Air 777 would seem like a reasonable option. Not only is there plenty of demand between Korea and the UK at the moment, but Jin Air's reasonably large route network could surely attract leisure passengers heading to destinations across the Asia-Pacific that are currently untouched by European airlines and the ME3 (Cairns, Okinawa, Sapporo, Da Nang, Kota Kinabalu just to name a few).

I would hope new operators would press for building improvements as the criticisms about STN in this thread are spot-on. My in-laws are in East Anglia and would love to fly SFO to STN but that is a real long shot unless its a LCC as the connectivity and ground transport out of LHR is far superior.

No matter what, STN will have to build a sizeable shorthaul network that consists of airlines that have codeshares or partnerships with long-haul capable airlines, unless they're planning to rely entirely on O/D traffic. AFAIK, Ryanair, Easyjet, and Jet2, the three biggest airlines at STN in terms of destinations, do not offer any partnerships with other airlines.
Perhaps STN's best bet would be trying to convince BA to move an NYC-LON, WAS-LON, LA-LON, or other high O/D market frequencies from LHR to STN. As part of their argument, they can convince airlines this'll free up some LHR slots.

Come one STN, be realistic. A few I can see happening, but the majority, no. Start with cleaning the toilets and go from there.

BWIAirport wrote:

No matter what, STN will have to build a sizeable shorthaul network that consists of airlines that have codeshares or partnerships with long-haul capable airlines, unless they're planning to rely entirely on O/D traffic.

LON has plenty of O&D traffic. That's not the issue.

I flew through Stansted twice in a week last year. Both flights cost me about £45 each, consisting of a day return to Dublin and Edinburgh. I hated the forced walkway through the shops, it was rammed, it did not feel like a good experience. I grabbed a coffee on both occasions and sat on the floor, because there was no seating. For £45 that's fine, I can cope with it. For long haul, and spending +£450 I'd want something far, far superior. The Stansted experience has got worse but if the flight is cheap I can swallow it for an hour or so.

Do IAG have any long haul plans for Level in the UK? Could it be at STN? Just curious.

BWIAirport wrote:

No matter what, STN will have to build a sizeable shorthaul network that consists of airlines that have codeshares or partnerships with long-haul capable airlines, unless they're planning to rely entirely on O/D traffic. AFAIK, Ryanair, Easyjet, and Jet2, the three biggest airlines at STN in terms of destinations, do not offer any partnerships with other airlines.

Not sure about Jet2, but Ryanair and EasyJet are capable. Ryanair feeds for Air Europa at Madrid for example and EasyJet has their Worldwide by EasyJet program in which they feed for several airlines from several airports. However none of these agreements take place at Stansted.

I think the first thing Stansted needs to do is make airside connections possible. Right now they got arrivals and departures strictly seperated, that needs to change. You got to be able to arrive on one flight, stay airside and depart on another flight. I'm sure they can find a solution for that.

And indeed, London does see a lot of O/D traffic so that's not the problem. However in order to fill long haul aircraft you need every passenger you can get including transfer passengers. Right now Stansted lacks of transfer passengers because they don't have airside connections. This might be a reason long haul airlines stay away from Stansted.

There actually is a shortcut to bypass the shops at STN - just ask for it if you can’t see it. But yes i don’t understand why there are no gate screens past the main hall.

So glad that after Brexit there is no more need to go to the UK and having to deal with decaying 3rd world infrastructure.

Hopefully STN will attract the next generation LH Lcc s like Scoot , Jetstar etc and the global super connectors TK , EK, QR etc ...

Anyone who can strike a transfer deal with FR will have a licence to print money

Galwayman wrote:

Anyone who can strike a transfer deal with FR will have a licence to print money

But only in very small denominations!

Galwayman wrote:

Hopefully STN will attract the next generation LH Lcc s like Scoot , Jetstar etc and the global super connectors TK , EK, QR etc ...

Didn't Turkish serve STN at some point?

STN is my local airport - I am in Cambridge and it is about 30 minutes’ drive from my home - but I avoid using. Why? Because it is such a miserable experience to use from a passenger’s perspective. It starts with the drop off - the greedy, grasping airport charges £2.00 (or is it £3.00 now?) to have my partner or a taxi drop me at the door. Even then it is not at the door, there still a sizeable walk to the terminal. No free luggage cart, of course, that’s another grasping £4. Then when you get to the terminal there are endless queues. Security is a horrid mess. Then you’re through to a giant shopping centre. There no doubting what the airport owners prioritise, it is retail over aviation. Arrivals is no better - the arrival experience is into a grim hall with poor signage and which is under constant construction. The whole experience is miles adrift from the experience at Heathrow T5. I could perhaps tolerate it on a short-haul cheap bucket-and-spade holiday, but for a business trip or a long haul - forget it I am going to Heathrow.

Any big increase in passengers will highlight one of STN's problems - its poor rail link with London. There are only four trains an hour between STN and Liverpool Street, and it takes about 53 minutes. It would take a big investment to construct a 4-track line which would be needed to get journey times down to 20 minutes, but there isn't a plan to do this.

oldannyboy wrote:

LHR01 wrote:

Pakistan would also work from STN

Pakistan, yes, I could easily see working from STN (East End being only up the road, along the A127), together with maybe Thailand and some other selected leisure oriented routes (but then again, in this case one should try to avoid duplication from what is being offered at Gatters... so there you go).

Pakistan previously served Islamabad to London Stansted in 2006 with A310

What ''some'' posts seem to be overlooking when mentioning possible and potential long haul airlines starting service to STN is that Emirates already fly daily into the airport with a B77W.

Currently STN has the following long haul scheduled routes with the potential for more.

Boston...Primea
Dubai...Emirates
Newark...Primea
Toronto...Primea
Washington...Primea

Previously Stansted had the following long haul passenger service from the following airlines,

Air Asia X...Kuala Lumper
Air Transat...Toronto
American...Chicago, New York JFK
EL AL...Tel Aviv
EOS...Newark
Continental...Newark
Cubana...Havana
Maxjet...Boston, Chicago, Las Vegas, New York, Washington DC
Pakistan...Islamabad
Turkish Airlines...Istanbul
Wardair...Toronto

Stansted is also a very busy cargo hub and several long haul airlines use the airport with dedicated freighters on a scheduled basis including the following,

Asiana
China Southern
Etihad
FedEx
Qatar
Turkish Airlines
UPS.

Construction of the brand new Arrivals Terminal will commence soon and the current terminal will be designated as the Departures Terminal creating over 45% extra space.

The new arrivals terminal is being built adjacent to the current terminal between the Raddison Hotel and will greatly improve the passenger experience, Satellite 4 is also planned although no update on that as yet.

I find London Stansted an excellent airport to fly from I find the airports layout excellent although like most I'm not fond of the walk through the shops and I have no issues driving the 123 miles from my home to the long stay car park for a cheap flight and the journey can be done in approximately 1 hour 50 minutes, although LHR is obviously my preferred option as it's under an hours drive.

STN has always had a very special place in my heart from my former plane spotting days when I first visited the airport in 1980 to see the Scandinavian charter invasion on a Sunday and the rare gems that were in for maintenance

Cunard wrote:

oldannyboy wrote:

LHR01 wrote:

Pakistan would also work from STN

Pakistan, yes, I could easily see working from STN (East End being only up the road, along the A127), together with maybe Thailand and some other selected leisure oriented routes (but then again, in this case one should try to avoid duplication from what is being offered at Gatters... so there you go).

Pakistan previously served Islamabad to London Stansted in 2006 with A310

What ''some'' posts seem to be overlooking when mentioning possible and potential long haul airlines starting service to STN is that Emirates already fly daily into the airport with a B77W.

Currently STN has the following long haul scheduled routes with the potential for more.

Boston...Primea
Dubai...Emirates
Newark...Primea
Toronto...Primea
Washington...Primea

Previously Stansted had the following long haul passenger service from the following airlines,

Air Asia X...Kuala Lumper
Air Transat...Toronto
American...Chicago, New York JFK
EL AL...Tel Aviv
EOS...Newark
Continental...Newark
Cubana...Havana
Maxjet...Boston, Chicago, Las Vegas, New York, Washington DC
Pakistan...Islamabad
Turkish Airlines...Istanbul
Wardair...Toronto

If you include Turkey/Levant, Arkia flies to Tel Aviv, Pegasus to Istanbul-SAW (a small hub itself) and AtlasGlobal to IST. And I guess you could always include WOW to KEF with connectivity to North America.

If HA ever does expand into Europe, as they've dropped hints that someday they would like to, would Stansted be viable for them?

Going slightly off topic, the following routes are at risk of not resuming from STN in summer 2019 with Ryanair

Basel
Dole
Frankfurt Hahn (flights to the main Frankfurt are on sale already)
Lublin
Rijeka

Regarding a possible route to Hawaii, would HA perhaps need some sort of feed into London to ensure fares are sufficiently high to be profitable ? If so, would Gatwick and a partnership with Easyjet be an alternate idea ? If a non stop route from London to Hawaii is to work, it will need to be marketed as something high end / exclusive to attract higher fares from leisure passengers and I just don't see Ryanair being consistent with that brand image...

It's ambitious to go away from the LCC airport tag that it has. I guess they are going to try and take LGWs spot and get that second runway built.

For Africa trying ACC and LOS in a A320neo/737MAX Y/W config could be worthwhile...maybe.

ro1960 wrote:

Do IAG have any long haul plans for Level in the UK? Could it be at STN? Just curious.

Well, I don't want to give Alex Cruz any ideas, but I for one could see a few LEVEL tails @ Gatters doing the cheapo longhauls in lieu of BA in a few years time....

JayBCNLON wrote:

There actually is a shortcut to bypass the shops at STN - just ask for it if you can’t see it. .

Hey, could you tell me about the shortcut please?

Thanks!!

[quote="Cunard"]



Previously Stansted had the following long haul passenger service from the following airlines,

Air Asia X...Kuala Lumper
Air Transat...Toronto
American...Chicago, New York JFK
EL AL...Tel Aviv
EOS...Newark
Continental...Newark
Cubana...Havana
Maxjet...Boston, Chicago, Las Vegas, New York, Washington DC
Pakistan...Islamabad
Turkish Airlines...Istanbul
Wardair...Toronto

I would add Highland Express to that list.
Also, I think EL AL... used to continue onto New York way back in the 1990's?

oldannyboy wrote:

ro1960 wrote:

Do IAG have any long haul plans for Level in the UK? Could it be at STN? Just curious.

Well, I don't want to give Alex Cruz any ideas, but I for one could see a few LEVEL tails @ Gatters doing the cheapo longhauls in lieu of BA in a few years time....

Please do! I think Level would quietly fit in very well.

Personally as someone living in Cambridgeshire and having a large Chinese community I am surprised that HU or its brotherly airlines choose STN as a stop. Especially since there are regularly frequent rail services from CBG station using CrossCountry and Greater Anglia.