Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 11600
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:07 pm

I posted this is the 787 In Service Thread but this probably warrants a thread by itself.

It was revealed yesterday that Air India is only currently using 21 of 27 788's in its fleet. Of the six that are not being used 3 788's are being used on a rotational basis due to flight crew shortages while the other 3 are being used for spare parts.

This comes after Air India's Airbus fleet pilots body alleged that 23% of Air India's whole fleet was grounded due to the need of spare parts.

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/busines ... tions.html
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10488
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:24 pm

So does the percentage include the 9 Airbus a/c that the Airbus pilot group state are also out of service or is this just a 787 issue?
The article does not mention the Boeing pilot group, but I would love to hear their side of the story, so far we have two sides of the square, one pilot group and management. The other pilot group and the truth are missing.
 
cfm-56
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:37 pm

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:25 pm

And Air India’s comment on this matter ”common practice” is it really? Lack of flight crew is common practice too?
 
avier
Posts: 1182
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:39 pm

par13del wrote:
So does the percentage include the 9 Airbus a/c that the Airbus pilot group state are also out of service or is this just a 787 issue?


No, the Airbus issue was a completely different one- it was regarding their A321's of which many were grounded and formed the workhorse for the domestic and short-haul int'l ops.

The 787 issue is completely different.
Also, this is the lean season in India i.e between Jun-Sept, so yes airlines do operate a lighter schedule and plan for heavy MX during these times . However AI has gone a bit too far this time in its grounding which has got do to with it running short of cash and the govt. being cautious to pump too much into the company.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 21206
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:03 pm

avier wrote:
Also, this is the lean season in India i.e between Jun-Sept, so yes airlines do operate a lighter schedule and plan for heavy MX during these times . However AI has gone a bit too far this time in its grounding which has got do to with it running short of cash and the govt. being cautious to pump too much into the company.


This nicely sums it up. It is the low season and thus frequencies are at a minimum, so aircraft should be going through maintenance.
I agree AI has parked too many and that shows a problem.

Where is the plan to profitability? Taking away the debt will just result in it being re-accumulated. It is pretty obvious AI needs better revenue management. Delta works on arriving on time and generates (IIRC) a 19% revenue premium for that. Premium customers do not want to worry about when they arrive. I'd like to know if all this maintenance downtime is really maintenance or cash conservation.

Lightsaber
3 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1263
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:12 pm

lightsaber wrote:
avier wrote:
Also, this is the lean season in India i.e between Jun-Sept, so yes airlines do operate a lighter schedule and plan for heavy MX during these times . However AI has gone a bit too far this time in its grounding which has got do to with it running short of cash and the govt. being cautious to pump too much into the company.


This nicely sums it up. It is the low season and thus frequencies are at a minimum, so aircraft should be going through maintenance.
I agree AI has parked too many and that shows a problem.

Where is the plan to profitability? Taking away the debt will just result in it being re-accumulated. It is pretty obvious AI needs better revenue management. Delta works on arriving on time and generates (IIRC) a 19% revenue premium for that. Premium customers do not want to worry about when they arrive. I'd like to know if all this maintenance downtime is really maintenance or cash conservation.

Lightsaber


I guess my question is what flights did they cut? We haven't heard of any international flights being cut (maybe they have). But if AI just pulled 787s flying domestic during the off season, is that so bad. I get it, they should use all their planes. But isn't grounding until monsoons end better than flying empty planes? Previously, AI's issue was that they cancelled too many flights. DOn't think that has been an issue for years. Anyone know on flight cancellations?
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 21206
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:40 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I guess my question is what flights did they cut? We haven't heard of any international flights being cut (maybe they have). But if AI just pulled 787s flying domestic during the off season, is that so bad. I get it, they should use all their planes. But isn't grounding until monsoons end better than flying empty planes? Previously, AI's issue was that they cancelled too many flights. DOn't think that has been an issue for years. Anyone know on flight cancellations?

I would suspect frequency, but I do not know the flights cut. If they are cutting domestic, then Indigo, GoAir, and Spicejet thank them.

But why would AI fly 787s domestically that are configured in an international premium configuration? AI just doesn't garner enough of a revenue premium to do that. They need to look into better international to international hubbing to seed flights to profitability. Hire good revenue management (RM) executives. With most other airlines announcing improved RM software (artificial intelligence), why isn't AI keeping up?

Last I heard, Indigo uses airRM software: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/indigo-s ... 00702.html
IndiGo has chosen airRM, the innovative revenue management software developed by RMS to help it identify sales opportunities and maximize passenger revenues. The airRM software allows airlines to closely control pricing and analyze performance through a robust suite of features.

All my brother does for a living now is manage a team to program differential equations to minimize cost, maximize revenue, and check the cost functions for AI software. It would be silly if the airlines are not doing this too. Allegiant for example is moving into this area. Since the first mover gains a revenue and cost advantage, it is time for AI to do so to get their planes flying.

Lightsaber
3 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
avier
Posts: 1182
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:26 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:

I guess my question is what flights did they cut? We haven't heard of any international flights being cut (maybe they have).


lightsaber wrote:
I would suspect frequency, but I do not know the flights cut. If they are cutting domestic, then Indigo, GoAir, and Spicejet thank them.

Lightsaber


Regarding their Airbus network, they have pulled out of a couple of domestic rotations from July itself till October citing a combination of crew and A/C shortage due to MX and Hajj ops.

I don't see any cuts in their 787 ops, and AI has never fully and heavily used up all of their 787's at once on heavy duty rotations. They'd always have many lying on the ground for long between flights. So it could be that even now it's the same issue but with some completely out of flying due to lack of spares.

lightsaber wrote:

But why would AI fly 787s domestically that are configured in an international premium configuration?

Lightsaber


Facilitates positioning of A/C's between their MX Hub - BOM and Int'l Hub - Del, helps with slot issues at major airports, gives an advantage over other FSC on trunk routes, helps with int'l to domestic same plane transfers.
 
A388
Posts: 8025
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:44 pm

Lack of spare parts means AI doesn't have the money to buy the necessary spare parts from Boeing or its suppliers and therefor is cannibalizing their own 787 fleet? AI doesn't need those 3 787 that they are cannibalizing or are they part of those "terrible teens" early built 787's?


A388
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 21206
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:11 pm

avier wrote:
Regarding their Airbus network, they have pulled out of a couple of domestic rotations from July itself till October citing a combination of crew and A/C shortage due to MX and Hajj ops.

I don't see any cuts in their 787 ops, and AI has never fully and heavily used up all of their 787's at once on heavy duty rotations. They'd always have many lying on the ground for long between flights. So it could be that even now it's the same issue but with some completely out of flying due to lack of spares.


At the cost per month of a 787, I cannot understand paying to have them sit. There is demand, so sell them and that will pay for parts.

I find a lot of little excuses are given for AI that don't add up to how poorly it is managed. It is an airline in the modern world, fly the planes!

Lightsaber
3 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
User avatar
kjeld0d
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:21 pm

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:56 pm

Air India is a big baby that keeps trying to walk without knowing how to crawl. There is no way they will ever be profitable. Appalling any way one looks at it considering India's per capita income.
 
727200
Posts: 633
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:31 pm

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:07 pm

How old are the planes in question? I read once that the first 5 years are covered by the manufacture for warranty. If that is true, then I would think most of the planes would not have an issue. Unless, they are talking about RR.

As for missing crew, its AI obligation to know what staffing they need in a given month and also by equipment. If they did not cover this, then we all know squarely where the blame lies.
 
hayzel777
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:18 am

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:14 pm

727200 wrote:
How old are the planes in question? I read once that the first 5 years are covered by the manufacture for warranty. If that is true, then I would think most of the planes would not have an issue. Unless, they are talking about RR.

As for missing crew, its AI obligation to know what staffing they need in a given month and also by equipment. If they did not cover this, then we all know squarely where the blame lies.

AI 787 have GEnx engines.

A lack of spare parts is completely AI's fault. How they even got to this point is beyond appalling.
 
Adipocere
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:35 am

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:39 pm

I thought AI always buys 25% more frames than what they need so that they can cannibalize those frames for parts later. I remember reading that the Indian tax regime works best for a planned cannibalization strategy than actually buying spare parts when needed.
 
avier
Posts: 1182
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Air India grounds nearly 25% of 788 fleet due to flight crew shortages and the need of spare parts

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:48 pm

lightsaber wrote:
At the cost per month of a 787, I cannot understand paying to have them sit. There is demand, so sell them and that will pay for parts.

Lightsaber


They have actually been planning to expand and add new intn'l stations since a while using the 787 fleet once they get them all back in the air. However, that has not been happening since a while due to their spare parts issue. They are in a situation where they keep having to beg for money from the Govt. to pay for everything, and since the govt. is now tightening its purse strings regarding AI because of other more demanding issues in the country on which the govt. has to focus and spend on, AI has been sort of stalled in this situation.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos