United Airline
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Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:31 am

Delta Airlines will soon discontinue SEA-HKG-SEA. Pretty sad as I think DL is a very good airline with great products, food, drinks, service etc.

Will they ever fly to HKG again? Maybe from ATL or JFK or LAX?
 
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ElroyJetson
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:44 am

The yields stink to HKG and really all of China which is why CX is losing money and also why DL has entered into a JV with KE.

DL does not need to fly to every major Asian city. They have tried HKG from DTW, MSP, and SEA. They all lost money. I think DL will continue to funnel pax into ICN and let KE do the intra Asian flying.

Maybe you could see ATL-HKG someday, but I doubt it.
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United Airline
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:53 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
The yields stink to HKG and really all of China which is why CX is losing money and also why DL has entered into a JV with KE.

DL does not need to fly to every major Asian city. They have tried HKG from DTW, MSP, and SEA. They all lost money. I think DL will continue to funnel pax into ICN and let KE do the intra Asian flying.

Maybe you could see ATL-HKG someday, but I doubt it.


CX lost money mainly due to fuel hedging and staff issues I think. CX is overall very profitable/rich.

DL tried very hard to keep HKG. HKG is the world's third largest business and financial centre and I am sure DL has a market with its excellent product. Umm.......

DL didn't fly HKG-MSP I think. It was NW.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:00 am

United Airline wrote:
Delta Airlines will soon discontinue SEA-HKG-SEA. Pretty sad as I think DL is a very good airline with great products, food, drinks, service etc.

Will they ever fly to HKG again? Maybe from ATL or JFK or LAX?


In my opinion, the fat lady has sung on Hong Kong for DL. If they can not make a 332 work on this route, which:

A: is the smallest plane they have that can do the route non-stop
B: With one stop connections via SEA to the big cities across the country & to a greater extent, the west coast.

There is something wrong when DL is not able to attract the larger business contracts because of the one daily to > daily flight via SEA, which is a detour from the East Coast where you can get non-stop to HKG from many of America's largest cities on CX with connections on AA to many more US markets.

I think DL should focus on Japan & of course Korea for getting passengers past those points, send them on KE.
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usdcaguy
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:02 am

Yeah but who wants to connect via SEA and get on a small domestic plane after arriving on a long flight vs. connect in an international hub through which you can get two international flights with international service? Seems like a no-brainer to me.
 
United Airline
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:09 am

I don't think they should cut HKG completely. They did HKG-NRT-HKG for many years though. Why not try HKG-ICN-HKG?
 
jumbojet
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:10 am

RWA380 wrote:
United Airline wrote:
Delta Airlines will soon discontinue SEA-HKG-SEA. Pretty sad as I think DL is a very good airline with great products, food, drinks, service etc.

Will they ever fly to HKG again? Maybe from ATL or JFK or LAX?


In my opinion, the fat lady has sung on Hong Kong for DL. If they can not make a 332 work on this route, which:

A: is the smallest plane they have that can do the route non-stop
B: With one stop connections via SEA to the big cities across the country & to a greater extent, the west coast.

There is something wrong when DL is not able to attract the larger business contracts because of the one daily to > daily flight via SEA, which is a detour from the East Coast where you can get non-stop to HKG from many of America's largest cities on CX with connections on AA to many more US markets.

I think DL should focus on Japan & of course Korea for getting passengers past those points, send them on KE.


The problem with DL to HKG is akin to the problems AA has with China. There is basically no feed on the other end plus, HKG yields for all airlines is in the trash. We all know that DL has very little patience for underperforming financial routes. Its just one of those things. If DL had ever taken those 788's, no doubt that plane would have worked. DL will return to HKG when it makes financial sense and they have the right airplane. Maybe the MOM will make it happen.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:10 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
They have tried HKG from DTW, MSP, and SEA.

DL has never flown MSP-HKG.
NW did... more than two decades ago.

DL metal has done ANC (early '90s), LAX (mid '90s), NRT (mid '00s), DTW (late '00s) and SEA to HKG.



usdcaguy wrote:
Yeah but who wants to connect via SEA and get on a small domestic plane after arriving on a long flight vs. connect in an international hub through which you can get two international flights with international service?

That doesn't make much sense for anything but a handful of large markets. Anywhere else, you're still going to "have to get on a little plane" anyway...
Last edited by LAX772LR on Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
hz747300
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:13 am

CX clearly thinks there is something in Seattle. Anyways,if AA can make DFW work, then DL should be able to make ATL work. If nothing else, it'll be good to have NRT-HKG back on DL.
Keep on truckin'...
 
questions
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:18 am

NW flew SEA-HKG.

I agree DL should not have cancelled the 788 order. They could have been used to fly JFK/SEA/LAX-HKG.

Of the US3, it seems weak that AA and DL are so far behind UA in developing robust Asian networks. DL seems to have gutted NW’s operations. I understand that DL is more financially savvy but it’s only answer seems to be cut and transfer to partner. It seems like DL should be able to funnel a lot of passengers through its partners’ hubs while also offering flights to non hub and P2P destinations... similar to BA, AF and LH to US.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:29 am

questions wrote:
DL seems to have gutted NW’s operations.

...because "NW's operations" consisted almost entirely of (1) double-connects (2) via NRT on (3) 747s-- all three points of which, would be woefully uncompetitive in today's market.

So of course they "gutted" it. UA did the same to the bulk of its NRT transfer hub as well.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Kashmon
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:29 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
The yields stink to HKG and really all of China which is why CX is losing money and also why DL has entered into a JV with KE.

DL does not need to fly to every major Asian city. They have tried HKG from DTW, MSP, and SEA. They all lost money. I think DL will continue to funnel pax into ICN and let KE do the intra Asian flying.

Maybe you could see ATL-HKG someday, but I doubt it.



hilarious

but USA is a goldmine for CX....

CX is losing money due to a stupid fuel hedge, eliminate the hedge and they are very profitable
DL just could not compete against CX
in fact neither can UA or AA

considering the USA is a much larger market than HKG ....
 
Kashmon
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:32 am

jumbojet wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
United Airline wrote:
Delta Airlines will soon discontinue SEA-HKG-SEA. Pretty sad as I think DL is a very good airline with great products, food, drinks, service etc.

Will they ever fly to HKG again? Maybe from ATL or JFK or LAX?


In my opinion, the fat lady has sung on Hong Kong for DL. If they can not make a 332 work on this route, which:

A: is the smallest plane they have that can do the route non-stop
B: With one stop connections via SEA to the big cities across the country & to a greater extent, the west coast.

There is something wrong when DL is not able to attract the larger business contracts because of the one daily to > daily flight via SEA, which is a detour from the East Coast where you can get non-stop to HKG from many of America's largest cities on CX with connections on AA to many more US markets.

I think DL should focus on Japan & of course Korea for getting passengers past those points, send them on KE.


The problem with DL to HKG is akin to the problems AA has with China. There is basically no feed on the other end plus, HKG yields for all airlines is in the trash. We all know that DL has very little patience for underperforming financial routes. Its just one of those things. If DL had ever taken those 788's, no doubt that plane would have worked. DL will return to HKG when it makes financial sense and they have the right airplane. Maybe the MOM will make it happen.



HKG yields are trash?

if you can't fill first and business class to HKG, good luck on any other route in the world....
 
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Keith2004
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:00 am

questions wrote:
NW flew SEA-HKG.

I agree DL should not have cancelled the 788 order. They could have been used to fly JFK/SEA/LAX-HKG.

Of the US3, it seems weak that AA and DL are so far behind UA in developing robust Asian networks. DL seems to have gutted NW’s operations. I understand that DL is more financially savvy but it’s only answer seems to be cut and transfer to partner. It seems like DL should be able to funnel a lot of passengers through its partners’ hubs while also offering flights to non hub and P2P destinations... similar to BA, AF and LH to US.


Delta is more financially savvy and that is exactly why they cut Under-performing routes, they clearly place financial performance over prestige. They are in the business to make a profit. If a route is not profitable and does not have overall value to the network, why fly it? I'm sure people poured over data and considered multiple factors before canceling HKG.

As to gutting NW's operations....NW's operations as they were would not work today. I'm sure if NW was still in existence, they would not operate as they did then. They probably would have also retired the 747 and largely de-hubed NRT. They didn't order the 787 to fly from hubs to facilitate NRT connections. UA and DL reduced NRT flying for several reasons. Including, but not limited to: Opening up of HND, long haul twins overflying NRT to destinations, increased Flights to Chinese destinations direct from US.
 
Flighty
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:03 am

HKG economy class yield is certainly trash, at least DL's low pricing at SEA is. What we are hearing is DL cannot compete with CX for the discerning, paid J and F class customer. So there is no way to make a flight to HKG pay for itself.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:36 am

I thought we saw all of these arguments already when Delta announced termination of HKG. Airliners.net needs a better search function and prospective thread starters who will use it.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:52 am

United Airline wrote:
I don't think they should cut HKG completely. They did HKG-NRT-HKG for many years though. Why not try HKG-ICN-HKG?


There's absolutely no point for DL to use their own metal on HKG-ICN-HKG, especially with the KE JV. HKG-ICN itself is already competitive as-is.

Also, back when DL operate HKG-NRT, they literally fill that plane with HKer looking for cheap (while still full service) tickets to/from Japan. In another word, it was never a high yield route.
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seatback
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:08 pm

jumbojet wrote:
RWA380 wrote:
United Airline wrote:
Delta Airlines will soon discontinue SEA-HKG-SEA. Pretty sad as I think DL is a very good airline with great products, food, drinks, service etc.

Will they ever fly to HKG again? Maybe from ATL or JFK or LAX?


We all know that DL has very little patience for underperforming financial routes. Its just one of those things. If DL had ever taken those 788's, no doubt that plane would have worked. DL will return to HKG when it makes financial sense and they have the right airplane. Maybe the MOM will make it happen.


Is this true? I thought many routes from SEA, JFK, and LAX were underperforming from a financial perspective (maybe I'm mistaken). Also, can we attribute AA's success in HKG to their relationship with Cathay?
 
jasoncrh
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:11 pm

They havent even ended their service yet. Re-entering HKG is probably the last thing Delta is thinking of right now.
 
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neomax
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:16 pm

Main problem was feed into SEA was nonexistent. If they return from the likes of DTW where they actually have some feed, combined with the A350, it will be a home run.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:25 pm

Kashmon wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
RWA380 wrote:

In my opinion, the fat lady has sung on Hong Kong for DL. If they can not make a 332 work on this route, which:

A: is the smallest plane they have that can do the route non-stop
B: With one stop connections via SEA to the big cities across the country & to a greater extent, the west coast.

There is something wrong when DL is not able to attract the larger business contracts because of the one daily to > daily flight via SEA, which is a detour from the East Coast where you can get non-stop to HKG from many of America's largest cities on CX with connections on AA to many more US markets.

I think DL should focus on Japan & of course Korea for getting passengers past those points, send them on KE.


The problem with DL to HKG is akin to the problems AA has with China. There is basically no feed on the other end plus, HKG yields for all airlines is in the trash. We all know that DL has very little patience for underperforming financial routes. Its just one of those things. If DL had ever taken those 788's, no doubt that plane would have worked. DL will return to HKG when it makes financial sense and they have the right airplane. Maybe the MOM will make it happen.



HKG yields are trash?

if you can't fill first and business class to HKG, good luck on any other route in the world....


Lol what? HKG is not a proxy for the entire world. Moreover, the simple facts prove you are wrong - look at DL's profitability, load factor, etc., they are doing pretty darned well. So even though HKG didn't work, many other routes apparently are.
 
kavok
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:56 pm

Will they return in the near term? Probably not.

If they did, from where? Probably LAX. 1- More local feed than SEA. 2- Americans are bad at geography so connecting pax won’t realize they are flying in the wrong direction. 3- Once the LAX Terminal project is complete and the international terminal is connected, it would be an easier transfer.
 
NZ321
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:08 pm

Frankly, I think if DL is serious about the pacific then they need to be in HKG. And I am not sure that SEA is the answer. Better that they use LAX. I know there is a lot of competition from LAX but, frankly, it's also a source of high yield traffic and LAX can better support the premium product DL is trying to develop over UA and AA.
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bbowma77
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:30 pm

I think they have the 777 back on this route (until the end) because the 330-200 was struggling. Sad to see it go, as a frequent Delta flyer i have flown many times to HK, to me the Seattle route was just awkward. I liked the DTW non stop the best, although it was a long time on a plane!, Connecting in Narita for BKK and HK was fine though, and probably made the most sense, hard to believe they still cant do that. From my perspective, it is disappointing to see that DL has retreated from many of the world business centers, HK, Dubai etc. As as business traveler, 5 years or so ago it seemed like Delta could get me anywhere i wanted to go which was my preference. I cant be the only one that sees it that way. Now if i am going to Asia i use EVA and if I am going to the Middle East i use Lufthansa, both have great service and offer an excellent Premium Economy on most flights. I also think DL made a mistake not getting the 787, they might have been able to make those routes work.
 
747DREAM
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:32 pm

United Airline wrote:
Delta Airlines will soon discontinue SEA-HKG-SEA. Pretty sad as I think DL is a very good airline with great products, food, drinks, service etc.

Will they ever fly to HKG again? Maybe from ATL or JFK or LAX?



If DL fly non stop from ATL to HKG. I will be the first to book a ticket and will be flying a lot more then now. If I remember right the 777LR can make the trip. But the problem is the yield they can make on the flight, on carrying so much fuel to do the non stop. I guess a man can always dream. Haha

if I were to fly out of SEA to HKG. I think CX has a way better service then DL. , but for US flights I will always chose DL, of the US 3 I am always happy with DL service.
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janders
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:40 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Frankly, I think if DL is serious about the pacific then they need to be in HKG.


:checkmark:

I find it amazing the worlds second largest airline(per ASKs) does not have a link to one of the globes most important cities, especially one with such strong commercial and personal links to the U.S. Hong Kong is only 1 of 7 world Aplha+ cities.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
jumbojet
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:47 pm

janders wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Frankly, I think if DL is serious about the pacific then they need to be in HKG.


:checkmark:

I find it amazing the worlds second largest airline(per ASKs) does not have a link to one of the globes most important cities, especially one with such strong commercial and personal links to the U.S. Hong Kong is only 1 of 7 world Aplha+ cities.


They are also the worlds most profitable airline.. There is a very good reason why.
 
klm617
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:51 pm

Delta will not be back in HKG. They tried it from NRT Failed, they tried it from DTW failed, They tried from SEA failed so now they are just letting KE feed their ICN flights and let them absorb the cost of flying to HKG. It's to long a flight and Delta has a weak brand recognition in HKG
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:53 pm

United Airline wrote:
Delta Airlines will soon discontinue SEA-HKG-SEA. Pretty sad as I think DL is a very good airline with great products, food, drinks, service etc.

Will they ever fly to HKG again? Maybe from ATL or JFK or LAX?


If they ever fly to HKG again it will be from DTW but with the KE JV there is no need for them to waste money flying their own planes to HKG.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:56 pm

thr only way which DL can be successful in HK is to start at least daily flight to at least 3 US destination (SEA/LAX/DTW/MSP/ATL/JFK) plus 6 daily flight to regional destination from HKG (MNL/SIN/BKK/KUL/SGN) and codeshare with HX
 
toobz
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:04 pm

This OP and HKG...ughh. How many times do we have to do this. DL will return to HKG when they feel it will be profitable. To think that DL dumped the route cause it was making money is as ridiculous as this topic. DL knows their internal numbers and now they feel it makes more business sense to leave it to their partner. The fact that other US airlines are flying it means nothing. Some routes work for certain airlines, almost like a niche. This isn’t one for DL. They will fly it again if and when the time is right. And to say that people won’t make an extra connection is false. It happens every day. It’s all about what airline and program you are loyal to and collect miles on.
 
EddieDude
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:17 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
really all of China which is why CX is losing money and also why DL has entered into a JV with KE.

I thought the KE JV excluded mainland China. That is why DL has purchased a minority stake in MU and are entering into a comprehensive agreement that covers all mainland China ex-PVG.
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TWFlyGuy
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:35 pm

questions wrote:
NW flew SEA-HKG.

I agree DL should not have cancelled the 788 order. They could have been used to fly JFK/SEA/LAX-HKG.

Of the US3, it seems weak that AA and DL are so far behind UA in developing robust Asian networks. DL seems to have gutted NW’s operations. I understand that DL is more financially savvy but it’s only answer seems to be cut and transfer to partner. It seems like DL should be able to funnel a lot of passengers through its partners’ hubs while also offering flights to non hub and P2P destinations... similar to BA, AF and LH to US.


Keep in mind that UA was able to buy the most lucrative APAC network in the world when they acquired the PanAm routes. Heck they even got the planes and crews. DL bought the second best one but I don't think the PA & NW networks were close in terms of performance. NW benefited from a long period or high regulation and poor to non-existent competition in China.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:38 pm

Keith2004 wrote:
questions wrote:
NW flew SEA-HKG.

I agree DL should not have cancelled the 788 order. They could have been used to fly JFK/SEA/LAX-HKG.

Of the US3, it seems weak that AA and DL are so far behind UA in developing robust Asian networks. DL seems to have gutted NW’s operations. I understand that DL is more financially savvy but it’s only answer seems to be cut and transfer to partner. It seems like DL should be able to funnel a lot of passengers through its partners’ hubs while also offering flights to non hub and P2P destinations... similar to BA, AF and LH to US.


Delta is more financially savvy and that is exactly why they cut Under-performing routes, they clearly place financial performance over prestige. They are in the business to make a profit. If a route is not profitable and does not have overall value to the network, why fly it? I'm sure people poured over data and considered multiple factors before canceling HKG.

As to gutting NW's operations....NW's operations as they were would not work today. I'm sure if NW was still in existence, they would not operate as they did then. They probably would have also retired the 747 and largely de-hubed NRT. They didn't order the 787 to fly from hubs to facilitate NRT connections. UA and DL reduced NRT flying for several reasons. Including, but not limited to: Opening up of HND, long haul twins overflying NRT to destinations, increased Flights to Chinese destinations direct from US.


AA Finance would be happy to explain how they recently made similar cuts to ORD-China and NRT along with some JFK flying. It's not that DL has a lock on the smart people. It's that this route didn't work for them so they cut it. AA & UA are flying it from stronger markets. It's really that simple. Will DL ever fly to HKG again...sure. Economics change, markets grow, strategies change.
 
winginit
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:41 pm

TWFlyGuy wrote:
Keith2004 wrote:
questions wrote:
NW flew SEA-HKG.

I agree DL should not have cancelled the 788 order. They could have been used to fly JFK/SEA/LAX-HKG.

Of the US3, it seems weak that AA and DL are so far behind UA in developing robust Asian networks. DL seems to have gutted NW’s operations. I understand that DL is more financially savvy but it’s only answer seems to be cut and transfer to partner. It seems like DL should be able to funnel a lot of passengers through its partners’ hubs while also offering flights to non hub and P2P destinations... similar to BA, AF and LH to US.


Delta is more financially savvy and that is exactly why they cut Under-performing routes, they clearly place financial performance over prestige. They are in the business to make a profit. If a route is not profitable and does not have overall value to the network, why fly it? I'm sure people poured over data and considered multiple factors before canceling HKG.

As to gutting NW's operations....NW's operations as they were would not work today. I'm sure if NW was still in existence, they would not operate as they did then. They probably would have also retired the 747 and largely de-hubed NRT. They didn't order the 787 to fly from hubs to facilitate NRT connections. UA and DL reduced NRT flying for several reasons. Including, but not limited to: Opening up of HND, long haul twins overflying NRT to destinations, increased Flights to Chinese destinations direct from US.


AA Finance would be happy to explain how they recently made similar cuts to ORD-China and NRT along with some JFK flying. It's not that DL has a lock on the smart people. It's that this route didn't work for them so they cut it. AA & UA are flying it from stronger markets. It's really that simple. Will DL ever fly to HKG again...sure. Economics change, markets grow, strategies change.


Very much agree with that. As for those saying DL will never fly HKG again, I imagine they were saying the same thing about KIX when DL last chopped the route. These things come and go and you've got to put the planes somewhere.
 
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:52 pm

The distant future who knows, impossible to even guess. In the next 25 years seems EXTREMELY unlikely.
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 710
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:10 pm

The DL KE JV does not include mainland china. China does not permit 3rd party codesharing. That said, you could still fly, say, DTW-ICN on DL and then switch to KE for an ICN- China segment. Delta just wouldnt put their code on the ICN - China segment, and only the overwater portion would be shared between the two of them.

quote="EddieDude"]
ElroyJetson wrote:
really all of China which is why CX is losing money and also why DL has entered into a JV with KE.

I thought the KE JV excluded mainland China. That is why DL has purchased a minority stake in MU and are entering into a comprehensive agreement that covers all mainland China ex-PVG.[/quote]
 
FSDan
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:29 pm

I honestly think the best chance for DL to return to HKG would be from JFK or LAX. Both are huge markets with a good premium component. The downside for each route is the level of competition - LAX-HKG has AA plus 3x daily CX and now HX as well, and JFK has 3x daily CX (not counting the one-stop via YVR) and then UA and CX over at EWR also sharing the NYC-HKG market. LAX-HKG is a shorter flight and could offer better connections on the U.S. end, but DL has a stronger overall position in the NYC market and could probably get some decent corporate contracts given their overall route portfolio in NYC.

I suspect ATL-HKG is probably too long and thin to make work. Sure, ATL has an incredible volume of traffic, and DL might be able to carry some high-value transfer passengers to the likes of MIA or CLT, but would that be enough to cover the costs? Seems doubtful.

Regarding DL not being able to compete with CX, is that taking into account the new Delta One suites product that will be on all the 359s and 77Ls soon (I'd have to think any future flight to HKG on DL metal would be on one of those aircraft)? Everything I've heard about that product is that it is very competitive...
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winginit
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:31 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
The DL KE JV does not include mainland china. China does not permit 3rd party codesharing. That said, you could still fly, say, DTW-ICN on DL and then switch to KE for an ICN- China segment. Delta just wouldnt put their code on the ICN - China segment, and only the overwater portion would be shared between the two of them.

quote="EddieDude"]
ElroyJetson wrote:
really all of China which is why CX is losing money and also why DL has entered into a JV with KE.

I thought the KE JV excluded mainland China. That is why DL has purchased a minority stake in MU and are entering into a comprehensive agreement that covers all mainland China ex-PVG.


You're correct - the DL/KE JV does not include Mainland China, and thus Mainland China had no impact on DL's decision to enter into a JV with KE nor does that JV really help either carrier in China apart from standard interline connections.
 
paulduwon
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:48 pm

United Airline wrote:
I don't think they should cut HKG completely. They did HKG-NRT-HKG for many years though. Why not try HKG-ICN-HKG?


It would be possible in a world where the low-cost airlines don't exist.
ICN-HKG became oversaturated. Why do you think TG is leaving that route after serving for over 20 years?
ET dropped that route recently too, and I'm sure they bled money quite a bit, given how empty their flights were.
 
tphuang
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:03 pm

DL has made a bet to go through ICN for all its Asian traffic. And based on the recent quarterly earning report, this is paying off in great dividends at least in the short term. If you fly to HKG a lot, DL is not going to be your airline, but that applies to not many people in continental USA.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
DL has made a bet to go through ICN for all its Asian traffic. And based on the recent quarterly earning report, this is paying off in great dividends at least in the short term. If you fly to HKG a lot, DL is not going to be your airline, but that applies to not many people in continental USA.


As if that one single flight to/from SEA give DL a large market shares to begin with. Hack, DL not being able to make it work is not even recent, why did DL switched to SEA-NRT-HKG (at least for 5 flight/wk, keeping 2/wk non-stop) back in 2015, until they switched back to daily SEA-HKG afterward?

FSDan wrote:
Regarding DL not being able to compete with CX, is that taking into account the new Delta One suites product that will be on all the 359s and 77Ls soon (I'd have to think any future flight to HKG on DL metal would be on one of those aircraft)? Everything I've heard about that product is that it is very competitive...


DL's product is fine, it's just that between a single daily flight on DL to a market that doesn't have the largest O&D (Although not extremely thin, either), vs. competitors like UA (3 daily flights + 4/wk to GUM, but the 3 daily flights are to large O&D market), or even HX (There's a reason why they picked LAX and SFO), and lastly, CX/AA (12 daily flights on CX alone, plus the upcoming IAD and SEA; alongside 2 daily flights on AA), DL simply can't quite build that market presence that's required to compete.

Things are not 100% rosy for UA, either (No more fifth freedom out of HKG, no LAX-HKG on UA for many years), nor AA by itself (They only begin flying to HKG on their own metal since 2014).
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
gsg013
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:02 pm

It's tough to compete into HKG in my mind I feel like DL could try JFK-HKG but I think there is too much competition. The other issue is on this route I know a lot of people that religiously fly DL or UA but would chose to fly Cathay Pacific in J or F on the route just because of how special the airline is.

That being said DL does not really do things for prestige like fly a route of that length and lose money just to say they fly the route. Maybe they could open it up again at some point if they get an aircraft with the right economics. (I would think they would need a lot more than 28 or 30 J seats to make the numbers work) .
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:18 pm

Still gotta say, its a shock Delta will not serve Hong Kong - truly one of the worlds biggest business centers, and indeed significant market from the U.S.
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questions
Posts: 1985
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:30 pm

klm617 wrote:
...and Delta has a weak brand recognition in HKG


I’m curious to the brand recognition of the US3 in Asia. Does anyone know of a respected, published source for this kind of information?
 
winginit
Posts: 2549
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:32 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Still gotta say, its a shock Delta will not serve Hong Kong - truly one of the worlds biggest business centers, and indeed significant market from the U.S.


That's my gut reaction as well, but if we go back to the early 2000's I can't recall even NW serving HKG from the US apart from the NRT-HKG fifth that likely just catered to the local intra-Asian market? Maybe I'm misremembering that. Point being, Delta or Northwest were never really notable players in the US to HKG space one way or another.
 
questions
Posts: 1985
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:47 pm

NZ321 wrote:
I know there is a lot of competition from LAX but, frankly, it's also a source of high yield traffic and LAX can better support the premium product DL is trying to develop over UA and AA.


Which premium product(s)?

Delta One? Delta One at LAX, Premium Select?

How is DL differentiated over AA and UA? Flagship Curbside entrance vs ???? Sky Club vs Flagship and Polaris Lounges... and TBIT Star Alliance lounges? Delta One onboard product vs Polaris onboard product?

Granted DL is spending a lot of money at LAX to make the experience better, for premium passengers and everyone. But how exactly will the DL premium product be better over AA and UA?
 
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janders
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:48 pm

winginit wrote:

That's my gut reaction as well, but if we go back to the early 2000's I can't recall even NW serving HKG from the US apart from the NRT-HKG fifth that likely just catered to the local intra-Asian market? Maybe I'm misremembering that. Point being, Delta or Northwest were never really notable players in the US to HKG space one way or another.


DL flew DTW-HKG. Dropped late 2012. Further back NW did MSP-HKG in 1990s.

But yes you are right. NW/DL was never able to make much of market like HKG compared to PA/UA.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
questions
Posts: 1985
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:49 pm

winginit wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
Point being, Delta or Northwest were never really notable players in the US to HKG space one way or another.


Wasn’t NW known for dirt cheap, consolidator type fares in Asia... vs a solid brand that could command decent fares?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Will DL return to HKG again?

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:21 pm

Makes me wonder if JFK-HKG would work, but who knows, DL couldnt even pull off JFK-NRT.
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