hiflyeras
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:22 pm

I'm really suspicious that there will be a market for filling this. EWR is one thing...over 20 million catchment area...would love to know the LF on that.. BOS not so big at less than 5 million. This might be a tough sell.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:23 pm

TWA902fly wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
alasizon wrote:

AA actually offers complimentary meals in Y on their DFW-Hawaii routings so no reason to think that an even longer flight wouldn't be complimentary....


This right here is the problem. The roads were never built to accommodate the hotel rush that happens. Plus if they aren't going to HNL, connecting in HNL to the other islands will put them there right in time to check-in.


AA does not serve a meal on ORD to HNL. So sometimes, distance is not a factor.


AA also does not fly ORD-HNL, so that's probably why they don't serve a meal on it. The route returns in December of this year, however.

'902


UA doesn't serve a meal on such a long flight.
 
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cathay747
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:00 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
They better serve complimentary meals on such a long flight. If AA or UA does it, it will be Buy on Board.


HA serves complimentary meals in Y on ALL flights (except inter-island of course)...they are the only carrier to do so.
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xxcr
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:04 pm

hinckley wrote:
Schedule is loaded into HA system:
HA89 BOS-HNL 8:00am - 1:40 pm
HA90 HNL-BOS 1:45pm - 6:00am

Leaving and arriving into Terminal E according to the Globe article.



Is HA using 2 frames for this flight? only 5 minutes on the ground..........did i miss something?
 
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cathay747
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:07 pm

HALOGG wrote:
At 5,095 miles, this becomes the longest regularly scheduled domestic route in U.S. history.


I find it amusingly ironic that an airline which for the majority of its nearly 90-year existence (about two-thirds) only flew inter-island, which are some of the SHORTEST U.S. domestic routes, now will take the crown for operating the LONGEST-EVER U.S. domestic nonstop route in history. Pualani has certainly come a long way!

WAY TO GO HAL!!
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cathay747
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:09 pm

xxcr wrote:
hinckley wrote:
Schedule is loaded into HA system:
HA89 BOS-HNL 8:00am - 1:40 pm
HA90 HNL-BOS 1:45pm - 6:00am

Leaving and arriving into Terminal E according to the Globe article.



Is HA using 2 frames for this flight? only 5 minutes on the ground..........did i miss something?


LOL yes you did...he posted that from the Boston Globe, so they listed BOS-HNL first...1 frame...it will be a 2 hour turn around 0600-0800.
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cathay747
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:19 pm

hinckley wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Guaranteed flatbeds? If so, then HA might actually become an option to fly to Asia/Australia via Hawaii...


HA's long-haul fleet is made up exclusively of A330s at this point


Not quite yet...there's still a few 763ER's remaining which won't be gone until the end of the year, and they have not been fitted with the lie-flat seats in F/J.
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B747forever
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:37 pm

cathay747 wrote:
hinckley wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Guaranteed flatbeds? If so, then HA might actually become an option to fly to Asia/Australia via Hawaii...


HA's long-haul fleet is made up exclusively of A330s at this point


Not quite yet...there's still a few 763ER's remaining which won't be gone until the end of the year, and they have not been fitted with the lie-flat seats in F/J.


Correct me if I am wrong, but those are mostly used on 5-6 hour West Coast flights, so not really part of the long haul fleet.
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jbmitt
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:48 pm

cathay747 wrote:
xxcr wrote:
hinckley wrote:
Schedule is loaded into HA system:
HA89 BOS-HNL 8:00am - 1:40 pm
HA90 HNL-BOS 1:45pm - 6:00am

Leaving and arriving into Terminal E according to the Globe article.



Is HA using 2 frames for this flight? only 5 minutes on the ground..........did i miss something?


LOL yes you did...he posted that from the Boston Globe, so they listed BOS-HNL first...1 frame...it will be a 2 hour turn around 0600-0800.


The inbound/outbound flights from HNL will likely rotate with other aircraft in the fleet. Appears to be very good utilization of one one frame.
 
superjeff
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:53 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
No flatbed = no go.



Hawaiian's A330's First Class is all flatbed.
 
rnav2dlrey
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:57 pm

the globe article has quotes saying that many east coast residents traveling to the islands will often overnight in LA.

nobody actually does that, right? i’ve heard of it happening for flights to oz, but i don’t think modern routing rules even allow for it to/from HI.
 
hinckley
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:59 pm

jbmitt wrote:
The inbound/outbound flights from HNL will likely rotate with other aircraft in the fleet. Appears to be very good utilization of one one frame.


That's probably right. I think HNL-BOS-HNL is 21h55m total flying time, so a single plane is pretty much impossible with turn-arounds. But timed with a shorter west coast route, I'm sure it's fairly easy to do two routes with two aircraft.
 
QXAS
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:02 pm

xxcr wrote:
hinckley wrote:
Schedule is loaded into HA system:
HA89 BOS-HNL 8:00am - 1:40 pm
HA90 HNL-BOS 1:45pm - 6:00am

Leaving and arriving into Terminal E according to the Globe article.



Is HA using 2 frames for this flight? only 5 minutes on the ground..........did i miss something?

Sort of? They way it might work is the aircraft will arrive from BOS at 1340, fly a west coast run departing around 1600. Then return the next morning around 1100. Then fly to BOS again at 1345 the next day. So two airplanes can serve two routes. One that on its own would have lots of downtime, and one that on its own can’t operate on just one airplane.
I am NOT an employee of any airline or manufacturer. I speak for myself, not on the behalf of any company.
 
B752OS
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:03 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
I'm really suspicious that there will be a market for filling this. EWR is one thing...over 20 million catchment area...would love to know the LF on that.. BOS not so big at less than 5 million. This might be a tough sell.


You have to assume this flight would pull people from all over Eastern Mass, which alone has a population of 5.7 million people (not all of Eastern Mass is in the Boston metro area). Plus a good portion of Rhode Island, Southern NH and Southern Maine. So the catchment population is more in the 7.2-7.5 million person range. I am not saying this route will be a slam dunk, but there certainly is a pretty good population base to pull from.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:04 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
"Hawaiian said the Boston-Honolulu route will become the longest regularly scheduled domestic route in U.S. history at 5,095 miles."
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/09/1 ... -in-april/

Let's hope HNL/ATL is next. DL fares for lie-flat HNL/ATL at ~$3.5K should be HA's attention.


It surpasses their JFK-HNL service by 112 miles (97 nm).

The problem with ATL is HA would have 0 feed. Even though they are long shots I think MCO or FLL would be better suited for HA
 
77H
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:17 pm

bzcat wrote:
77H wrote:
hinckley wrote:
Schedule is loaded into HA system:
HA89 BOS-HNL 8:00am - 1:40 pm
HA90 HNL-BOS 1:45pm - 6:00am

Leaving and arriving into Terminal E according to the Globe article.


Looking at those times its safe to say they’ll be using two frames for this service? Is that typical of HA’s Mainland flying? Out-and-backs seem the standard for most of the carriers serving Hawaii.

If using 2 frames is abnormal, any insights as to why? The departure time from BOS clearly targets O&D traffic. I can’t imagine B6 has a sizeable arrival bank coming into BOS prior to that? B6 is HA’s only CS partner of note on the mainland. Seems odd they’d choose a departure time that doesn’t take advantage of B6’s BOS hub. Perhaps a sign that the relationship is cooling down? I believe HA’s LGB service is also timed in a way that limits connecting traffic off B6.

77H


Doesn't look like a 2-frame utilization. The flight is not sitting at HNL all day... It is going out somewhere probably at around 4PM.

So it is a 1.5-frame utilization... a reasonable trade off to get optimized timing for O&D travelers in BOS.


I see what you are saying. The HNL-BOS leg arrives @ 0600, sits for 2 hrs and turns back to HNL. Upon HA89's arrival HA90 is getting ready to push within 5 minutes so not a true 2 frame route.

77H
 
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cathay747
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:51 pm

B747forever wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
hinckley wrote:

HA's long-haul fleet is made up exclusively of A330s at this point


Not quite yet...there's still a few 763ER's remaining which won't be gone until the end of the year, and they have not been fitted with the lie-flat seats in F/J.


Correct me if I am wrong, but those are mostly used on 5-6 hour West Coast flights, so not really part of the long haul fleet.


Yes they're all used on mainland flights now; pardon me for thinking that a 5-6 hour sector would be considered "long-haul"...at least for a U.S. carrier. :sarcastic:
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hinckley
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:56 pm

B752OS wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
I'm really suspicious that there will be a market for filling this. EWR is one thing...over 20 million catchment area...would love to know the LF on that.. BOS not so big at less than 5 million. This might be a tough sell.


You have to assume this flight would pull people from all over Eastern Mass, which alone has a population of 5.7 million people (not all of Eastern Mass is in the Boston metro area). Plus a good portion of Rhode Island, Southern NH and Southern Maine. So the catchment population is more in the 7.2-7.5 million person range. I am not saying this route will be a slam dunk, but there certainly is a pretty good population base to pull from.


Boston is an odd market in many respects. It's both the population plus the affluence of that population that drives BOS punching above its weight in terms of non-stop, long-haul service. I'll bet the front of those beautiful HA birds will be pretty full with paying passengers. So even if LFs might not be what SFO-HNL is, I'll bet the BOS flights will be pretty profitable.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:07 pm

rnav2dlrey wrote:
the globe article has quotes saying that many east coast residents traveling to the islands will often overnight in LA.

nobody actually does that, right? i’ve heard of it happening for flights to oz, but i don’t think modern routing rules even allow for it to/from HI.


In May I flew a SY (Sun Country) and AS routing RSW-MSP-LAX-STS. It was a single ticket where my bag was checked all the way through to Santa Rosa from Fort Myers. I departed RSW around 9 or 10 PM, arriving into MSP around midnight. I then stayed in a hotel near MSP that night, departing from MSP around 7 AM the next morning. I arriving into LA around 9 AM but did not leave LAX for Santa Rosa until about 3 or 4 PM. I realize that I was departing from a rather small airport and flying into a very small airport, but if I was given a 7 hour overnight layover through MSP (never mind the equally long layover at LAX) I have to believe plenty of folks are sent through LA on something like a late evening arrival into LAX and a Hawaii departure the following morning. Growing up in Chicago, I had friends headed to Hawaii that would stop in Southern California for a day or so to hit Disneyland, Universal Studios, etc. I imagine they booked completely separate tickets between Chicago and LA (or Orange County) and then LA and Hawaii.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
HAL
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:27 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
They better serve complimentary meals on such a long flight. If AA or UA does it, it will be Buy on Board.

HA serves complimentary meals on all of its flights between Hawaii and the mainland. Long flights like JFK (and BOS next year) get a meal, then a snack before landing.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
HAL
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:35 pm

xxcr wrote:


Is HA using 2 frames for this flight? only 5 minutes on the ground..........did i miss something?


Airlines don't use a particular airframe strictly for one route. On this one, HA will probably use a plane that gets in from Asia around 10 or 11am, then fly to BOS, leave two hours later, and get to HNL in the afternoon, and with a couple of hours on the ground maybe go to Asia, or the west coast - whatever flight works best with it's arrival time in HNL. With 24 A330s HA cycles all airframes through all its destinations.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:50 pm

HAL wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
They better serve complimentary meals on such a long flight. If AA or UA does it, it will be Buy on Board.

HA serves complimentary meals on all of its flights between Hawaii and the mainland. Long flights like JFK (and BOS next year) get a meal, then a snack before landing.

HAL


Yup. HA’s onboard service whips the legacies on comparable stage lengths. The coach meal isn’t of great quality but the interesting BOB options, cheap alcohol, and free rum punch more than make up.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Planes4you
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:07 pm

xxcr wrote:
hinckley wrote:
Schedule is loaded into HA system:
HA89 BOS-HNL 8:00am - 1:40 pm
HA90 HNL-BOS 1:45pm - 6:00am

Leaving and arriving into Terminal E according to the Globe article.



Is HA using 2 frames for this flight? only 5 minutes on the ground..........did i miss something?


Different aircraft
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:29 pm

rnav2dlrey wrote:
the globe article has quotes saying that many east coast residents traveling to the islands will often overnight in LA.

nobody actually does that, right? i’ve heard of it happening for flights to oz, but i don’t think modern routing rules even allow for it to/from HI.


I, too, am skeptical of The Globe's assertion, at least in the last 30 years. How many is many? 10%? I doubt it but can't point to a source. I don't think The Globe can, either. Some carriers permit an exception to the 4-hour domestic connection max. Sometimes they will allow last-in/first out on a single fare component. But not all.
 
braniff2hav
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:51 pm

Anyone notice that their promotional fares are $617 for economy and $1776 for first class? LOL Fun!
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:55 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
rnav2dlrey wrote:
the globe article has quotes saying that many east coast residents traveling to the islands will often overnight in LA.

nobody actually does that, right? i’ve heard of it happening for flights to oz, but i don’t think modern routing rules even allow for it to/from HI.


I, too, am skeptical of The Globe's assertion, at least in the last 30 years. How many is many? 10%? I doubt it but can't point to a source. I don't think The Globe can, either. Some carriers permit an exception to the 4-hour domestic connection max. Sometimes they will allow last-in/first out on a single fare component. But not all.


Most of the exceptions are route-specific and fairly narrow. One that springs to mind that isn’t domestic but is domestic length is WS, which offers overnight connections at LGA to at least some US cities.
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haynflyer
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:13 pm

braniff2hav wrote:
Anyone notice that their promotional fares are $617 for economy and $1776 for first class? LOL Fun!


Thanks for pointing that out! I almost missed it. 617 is the area code for parts of Boston. 1776 is obvious (to Americans).
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MSPNWA
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:18 pm

Nice addition for HA and BOS. Logical move IMO. BOS was the largest eastern market without non-stop service. If HA expands east again, I think ORD is most in need.
 
Confuscius
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:26 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
"Hawaiian said the Boston-Honolulu route will become the longest regularly scheduled domestic route in U.S. history at 5,095 miles."
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/09/1 ... -in-april/

Let's hope HNL/ATL is next. DL fares for lie-flat HNL/ATL at ~$3.5K should be HA's attention.


So the bed will cost just about $3,000 more?
Ain't I a stinker?
 
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KanaHawaii
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:30 pm

QXAS wrote:
xxcr wrote:
hinckley wrote:
Schedule is loaded into HA system:
HA89 BOS-HNL 8:00am - 1:40 pm
HA90 HNL-BOS 1:45pm - 6:00am

Leaving and arriving into Terminal E according to the Globe article.



Is HA using 2 frames for this flight? only 5 minutes on the ground..........did i miss something?

Sort of? They way it might work is the aircraft will arrive from BOS at 1340, fly a west coast run departing around 1600. Then return the next morning around 1100. Then fly to BOS again at 1345 the next day. So two airplanes can serve two routes. One that on its own would have lots of downtime, and one that on its own can’t operate on just one airplane.


Having the plane on the ground for that long of time reminds me of the American Airlines planes that are on the ground in Rio for, what, 12 hours at times, Arriving in the morning and leaving at night.
 
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KanaHawaii
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:37 pm

So for Hawaiian, the standardization of their A330 fleet - meaning that any of their A330's are outfitted and certified to fly this route along with all the other routes, really helps in the rotation of planes from short-to-long-to-short and vice versa routing for equalization of usage. The other thing that I am noting is that because of this standardization, if one plane goes tech, especially in Honolulu, a plane on standby can be brought in quickly to take over.

However, I don't think it works that well on the BOS-HNL route, since there is only one HA plane in that is the one you fly out on. It goes tech and your delayed or cancelled for that flight. Maybe HAL could chime in but is there a contingency plan if the BOS-HNL A-330 goes tech and can't be flown. Will the 330 from JFK be routed to HNL via BOS to pick up the passengers?
 
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KanaHawaii
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:44 pm

So here is a couple of other thoughts on this new route that I have been sharing with friends here and abroad:

1. Boston acts like a reliever a bit for those flying on the JFK run. Not to say that HAL wants to reduce the amount of service to JFK, but I would bet that they would probably want to use JFK now to market to people flying from the south - Carolina's I am thinking on this one. So Boston can be the second gateway to the East Coast and tap more effectively into the New England market which seems to be sufficient enough for Hawaiian to start a second east coast run.

2. JetBlue is looking to get into the trans-Atlantic market. My suspicion is that they will run their flights out of Boston to the European continent (Dublin, London I suspect are the first places). That would give a prospective traveler from England/Ireland to Hawaii a one stop option in the same terminal at BOS to fly to Hawaii. Match the times right and it could be a record breaking run to London from Hawaii.

3. If the idea of JetBlue flying to England is close to happening, Hawaiian could go in as a code share partner and tap the market to see what the demand is. It could be that they develop the market through that first and then when the 787-9 comes in, that nonstop becomes the "premier" run while the more economically inclined would do a B6/HA flight.

4. The pricing that they are proposing is somewhat attractive - sub $700 for economy, sub $2,000 for first class. Someone is thinking that if they come in big on discounts it might dissuade someone else, like American from Pittsburgh or Charlotte to get into the nonstop market to Hawaii. I also think its a shot across Southwest's bow as I think SWA is marketing to the East Coast for their Hawaii operations. They know they can't get good market share if all they are marketing to is the West Coast, which is saturated.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:55 am

bzcat wrote:
77H wrote:
hinckley wrote:
Schedule is loaded into HA system:
HA89 BOS-HNL 8:00am - 1:40 pm
HA90 HNL-BOS 1:45pm - 6:00am

Leaving and arriving into Terminal E according to the Globe article.


Looking at those times its safe to say they’ll be using two frames for this service? Is that typical of HA’s Mainland flying? Out-and-backs seem the standard for most of the carriers serving Hawaii.

If using 2 frames is abnormal, any insights as to why? The departure time from BOS clearly targets O&D traffic. I can’t imagine B6 has a sizeable arrival bank coming into BOS prior to that? B6 is HA’s only CS partner of note on the mainland. Seems odd they’d choose a departure time that doesn’t take advantage of B6’s BOS hub. Perhaps a sign that the relationship is cooling down? I believe HA’s LGB service is also timed in a way that limits connecting traffic off B6.

77H


Doesn't look like a 2-frame utilization. The flight is not sitting at HNL all day... It is going out somewhere probably at around 4PM.

So it is a 1.5-frame utilization... a reasonable trade off to get optimized timing for O&D travelers in BOS.

It’s 1 frame with a tight turn. Or maybe 1.25. No more.
 
Bobloblaw
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:01 am

KanaHawaii wrote:
QXAS wrote:
xxcr wrote:


Is HA using 2 frames for this flight? only 5 minutes on the ground..........did i miss something?

Sort of? They way it might work is the aircraft will arrive from BOS at 1340, fly a west coast run departing around 1600. Then return the next morning around 1100. Then fly to BOS again at 1345 the next day. So two airplanes can serve two routes. One that on its own would have lots of downtime, and one that on its own can’t operate on just one airplane.


Having the plane on the ground for that long of time reminds me of the American Airlines planes that are on the ground in Rio for, what, 12 hours at times, Arriving in the morning and leaving at night.

The plane is on the ground for 2 hours in BOS. In HNL you can pair it with another plane and get an Asia RT out of it. 2 frames can do BOS-HNL-Asia with a nice 3-5 hour turn in HNL in the morning return from Asia. BOS is really one frame with using some free time from another plane to fix the 5 min turn in HNL.
 
tjerome
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:37 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Perfectly timed for JetBlue connections also.
Congratulations BOS.

Flyguy


As someone else mentioned I bet this will be a BOS O&D market, unless if the fare was significantly less why would they go out of their way to fly on B6 from points west/south to BOS to get on the flight to HNL?

Also not sure even if there are flights other than redeyes that get in early enough (other than maybe a flight from LGA) to connect to the 8am departure.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:58 am

hiflyeras wrote:
I'm really suspicious that there will be a market for filling this. EWR is one thing...over 20 million catchment area...would love to know the LF on that.. BOS not so big at less than 5 million. This might be a tough sell.


BOS certainly isn’t a NYC when it comes to population, but it’s the 6th largest CSA in the United States at 8.2 million. I think HA will do just fine 5x weekly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combine ... tical_area
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:03 am

Confuscius wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
"Hawaiian said the Boston-Honolulu route will become the longest regularly scheduled domestic route in U.S. history at 5,095 miles."
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/09/1 ... -in-april/

Let's hope HNL/ATL is next. DL fares for lie-flat HNL/ATL at ~$3.5K should be HA's attention.


So the bed will cost just about $3,000 more?


AA from HNL provides a lie-flat on a 777 connecting in DFW to the East Coast for about $2K (discounted F). DL's lie-flat on a B764 (!!! no longer an A333), connecting in ATL is usually $3.5K+, often over $4K. HA selling lie-flat HNL/ATL on an A332 for $2K to $2.5K would eat DL's lunch... where it hurts... at the mega-hub. Two years ago, DL's pricing was $2K to $2.5K for lie-flat on an A333 HNL/ATL with a connection out of ATL. Monopoly nonstop route HNL/ATL has seen rapid average fare increases from DL (I know, shareholders like it), and the B764 is ... Delta Three, not Delta One.
 
JoePatroni
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:46 pm

johhn14 wrote:
so a $617 introductory fare to HNL is nothing special.


actually, an introductory fare of $617 from BOS to HNL is indeed quite special.
Oh Stewardess, I speak Jive.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:05 pm

BOS-HNL I thought the "on a given day 500 passengers from Eastern New England travel to Hawaii" was an interesting quote. Its important to note its not an average. I'm sure those days are Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Also, Jan-March is not the greatest weather in Hawaii - I wouldn't be surprised if this goes to 4 weekly in Winter 2020.

Here's what could feed the route (BOS-HNL leg) based on Monday's B6 (includes codeshares) arrivals into Logan with 1 hr MCT: EWR, SYR, PVC, PIT, ACK, BWI, SDQ, STI, DCA, BHB, MVY, ACK, RKD, LGA, RDU, CLE, DTW, LEB.

Do the legacies interline with HA on these types of routes? I know they do interisland and you can actually book HNL-SYD with AA miles. The HNL-BOS leg could also feed VS and BA morning flights and there's a couple of DL/AA/AC flights though until A-B-C connectors are available these would be tough,
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 661
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:21 pm

airbazar wrote:
An 8am departure for an 11 hour flight is brutal tho. They should push that back to 10am.

Completely agree. For 5,000 + mile flights going west I prefer 10 - 11 am departure times. An 8 am departure time forces you to get up really early. I prefer to start a long flight fully rested.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:36 pm

DoctorVenkman wrote:
If the flight left much later then most of the day would be wasted - as it is scheduled right now you get an extra half day in Honolulu.

An extra half day being tired and wanting to go to bed, you mean. Arriving a few hours later would be easier for the body.

DoctorVenkman wrote:
On the other hand the scheduled return flight is brutal. Ideally it would leave around 5pm HST and arrive ~9am EST so that passengers would have more time in the morning to relax, plus an easier time sleeping.

The return flight times are excellent. There is no need to sleep, which is difficult in economy anyway. You just stay awake until midnight, which is easy, and skip the night on arrival.

What do you mean with more time in the morning to relax? Your suggestion means three hours less time in the morning.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:45 pm

hinckley wrote:
I do a lot of 5 - 7 am departures, so in many respects, 8 is a luxury. But how much does it really matter on a 10+ hour flight? Get up super early, get seated, and close your eyes. The more you can sleep, the shorter the flight is. And being super tired helps getting some sleep. imho.

I don't want to get up super early and be super tired on the plane. I want to start my travels well rested so I can enjoy the scenery, the moving map, the meals and everything else that comes with the journey. I prefer to keep my eyes open the entire flight.
 
hinckley
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:21 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
hinckley wrote:
The more you can sleep, the shorter the flight is. And being super tired helps getting some sleep. imho.

I don't want to get up super early and be super tired on the plane. I want to start my travels well rested so I can enjoy the scenery, the moving map, the meals and everything else that comes with the journey. I prefer to keep my eyes open the entire flight.


That's why they sell both vanilla and chocolate ice cream! :D

I'm obviously an av enthusiast. That's why I'm here. But I've done more than my share of LH and ULH flights, including a bunch of multi-stop 30+ hour trips. And after a while, I've learned that sleeping for 8 hours makes sitting for 12 hours on a flight to Japan or 16 hours on a flight to HKG makes the trip much more bearable. I still love all the journeys, but after about six hours, a long metal tube is just a long metal tube.
 
TEY1330
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:35 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
They better serve complimentary meals on such a long flight. If AA or UA does it, it will be Buy on Board.

HA will serve at least hot sandwiches. AA serves complimentary wraps on DFW flights. Probably ORD, too.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:31 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
"Hawaiian said the Boston-Honolulu route will become the longest regularly scheduled domestic route in U.S. history at 5,095 miles."
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/09/1 ... -in-april/

Let's hope HNL/ATL is next. DL fares for lie-flat HNL/ATL at ~$3.5K should be HA's attention.


It surpasses their JFK-HNL service by 112 miles (97 nm).

The problem with ATL is HA would have 0 feed. Even though they are long shots I think MCO or FLL would be better suited for HA

I think a better next option for HA would be IAD, IAH, ORD, or DFW. Florida-Hawaii is leisure market to leisure market, for which there isn't much demand.
Next flight: August 1: WN2002 BWI-MSY B737
SWA, UAL, DAL, AWE, ASA, TRS, DLH, CLH, AFR, BAW, EIN, AAL | E190 DC94 CRJ2 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B752 B753 B762 B77W A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A388 MD88
 
dampfnudel
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:00 am

KanaHawaii wrote:
So for Hawaiian, the standardization of their A330 fleet - meaning that any of their A330's are outfitted and certified to fly this route along with all the other routes, really helps in the rotation of planes from short-to-long-to-short and vice versa routing for equalization of usage. The other thing that I am noting is that because of this standardization, if one plane goes tech, especially in Honolulu, a plane on standby can be brought in quickly to take over.

However, I don't think it works that well on the BOS-HNL route, since there is only one HA plane in that is the one you fly out on. It goes tech and your delayed or cancelled for that flight. Maybe HAL could chime in but is there a contingency plan if the BOS-HNL A-330 goes tech and can't be flown. Will the 330 from JFK be routed to HNL via BOS to pick up the passengers?

I don’t think HA would inconvenience JFK passengers just to pick up a small number of passengers at BOS since I have to believe most JFK flights go out almost full or on some days, full. Speaking of JFK passengers, I’ll be one of them flying for the first time to the aloha state next month on HA51.
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5

AA AI CO CL DE DL EA HA KL LH N7 PA PQ SK RO TW UA YR
 
USAirKid
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:31 am

KanaHawaii wrote:
However, I don't think it works that well on the BOS-HNL route, since there is only one HA plane in that is the one you fly out on. It goes tech and your delayed or cancelled for that flight. Maybe HAL could chime in but is there a contingency plan if the BOS-HNL A-330 goes tech and can't be flown. Will the 330 from JFK be routed to HNL via BOS to pick up the passengers?


As others have mentioned, its unlikely they'd reroute the JFK flight to pickup additional people. Depending on when it goes tech, they might be able to reroute people (on B6 or whoever has seats) from BOS to JFK to catch the JFK-HNL flight. (The BOS departure is scheduled at 8 am, whereas the JFK departure is at 10 am.) I'm sure they'd also try to put people on transcons (B6 or whoever has seats) to connect one of their west coast-HNL flights. Finally if push comes to shove, they'll reroute the whole itinerary onto a competitor. BOS-ATL-HNL or something. Its less than ideal, but its part of the cost of doing business.
 
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neomax
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:14 am

BWIAirport wrote:
Florida-Hawaii is leisure market to leisure market, for which there isn't much demand.


You'd be surprised. FL may be a leisure market but it is also a state 20 million people call home and there are only 2 states with more people. There are more people living in FL than in some entire countries, so leisure market or not, there is something to be said about the scale we are talking about. It is a giant potential market and if they tap into it the demand it is there. MCO and MIA alone cover large portions of Central and South FL and I would not be surprised to see both added in due course.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:19 am

hinckley wrote:
(...) I still love all the journeys, but after about six hours, a long metal tube is just a long metal tube.

That's understandable. Thanks for your reply.
 
77H
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:52 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Nice addition for HA and BOS. Logical move IMO. BOS was the largest eastern market without non-stop service. If HA expands east again, I think ORD is most in need.


And compete head to head against UA in their largest hub market? Don’t forget AA is also restarting ORD-HNL seasonally during holiday peak. If it performs well it may be added more frequently throughout the year.

I would be surprised if HA starts new service to any legacy carrier hub with existing nonstop service to HNL, especially if B6 doesn’t have a sizeable presence.

The US3 Hub-HNL flights receive feed from throughout their respective networks, HA would be reliant on O&D alone. Relying on O&D in a US3 hub market doesn’t seem like a winning proposition as the hubbed carrier has infinitely more brand recognition and an existing frequent flyer base.

Outside of the largest West Coast cities where head to head competition is inevitable HA has largely avoided the US3 where able. When HA added JFK they were the only carrier on the route. DL now flies it seasonally. I suspect they are starting BOS precisely because no one else does.

We have to consider that none of the US3 carriers would just let HA waltz in and take their lunch. They would certainly defend their markets. Over the last year we’ve seen the US3 become rather territorial in response to the U/LCCs expanding. HA would be treated no differently.

If HA wants to continue expanding further east domestically, starting DTW or PHL would be a safer bet so far as US3 hubs go as neither have nonstops to HNL. Another interesting possibility would be BWI. This would allow HA to tap into the DC market while not directly competing with UA out of IAD. It would also be a shot across the bow at WN will start Hawaii service at some point. BWI is one of WN’s largest stations and will no doubt have 1-stop connectivity to Hawaii. Offering a nonstop provides a service WN couldn’t replicate.

77H

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