hinckley
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:03 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
hinckley wrote:
(...) I still love all the journeys, but after about six hours, a long metal tube is just a long metal tube.

That's understandable. Thanks for your reply.

What a nice and respectful response, Martijn. :thumbsup: Much too uncommon on a.net.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:38 pm

Not quite yet...there's still a few 763ER's remaining which won't be gone until the end of the year, and they have not been fitted with the lie-flat seats in F/J.


I can absolutely vouch for that! I flew N581HA in August SAN-OGG, and the seats were the same old "regular" seats. In fact, many did not work, a point of complaint. HA is clearly not putting any money into these old birds as they near retirement or returning to their lessors. No recline, no lumbar support, etc., the controls were there but little worked. The leg rest extension sort of extended but then wouldn't retract without nearly jumping on it. My seat wasn't unique, either. I know, first world problems to be sure, but when you buy a first class ticket, you expect a functional first class product...

Back on point, I'm very happy to see this. I have family back east and it would be great to see them fly nonstop to Hawaii. They're not in Boston, but the point is that the more routes that eventually fly to the Islands, the better. HA does have the best in-cabin personnel around here in the states, certainly for long haul service. I'm wondering where else they may fly from eventually? They'll need a reasonably large population base to draw from and, being a bit of a smaller boutique airline, a place where there currently isn't much competition from the US 3. Does anything come to mind? I'd love to see CLE-HNL only because I have family there, but for a variety of reasons that won't happen. St. Louis eventually? Ideas? Just tossing spitballs against the wall.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:34 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
airbazar wrote:
An 8am departure for an 11 hour flight is brutal tho. They should push that back to 10am.

Completely agree. For 5,000 + mile flights going west I prefer 10 - 11 am departure times. An 8 am departure time forces you to get up really early. I prefer to start a long flight fully rested.


I would prefer an even later departure. For instance, the CX flight to HKG is basically the Holy Grail of scheduling: whole day in Boston, meal in the evening, and then when you get tired, enter the aircraft and snooze away for 10+ hours. Next, wake up to have breakfast and enjoy a full day in HKG.
The JL flight departing around noon is not bad either.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:03 pm

77H wrote:
We have to consider that none of the US3 carriers would just let HA waltz in and take their lunch. They would certainly defend their markets. Over the last year we’ve seen the US3 become rather territorial in response to the U/LCCs expanding. HA would be treated no differently.

If HA wants to continue expanding further east domestically, starting DTW or PHL would be a safer bet so far as US3 hubs go as neither have nonstops to HNL. Another interesting possibility would be BWI. This would allow HA to tap into the DC market while not directly competing with UA out of IAD. It would also be a shot across the bow at WN will start Hawaii service at some point. BWI is one of WN’s largest stations and will no doubt have 1-stop connectivity to Hawaii. Offering a nonstop provides a service WN couldn’t replicate.

77H

Good points, 77H, esp. about BWI, and HA nonstops to US focus cities rather than hubs. HA has no feed on the East Coast, so that leaves O&D and the allure of the Aloha State.. which is very strong in the Southeast because of DL's decades of promotion of DL's nonstops ATL/HNL. I still know some network planners at HA, real quants, ... BOS will not be the only East Coast add, but it may be the shrewdest (at least to date).

I think we will see triangle packages, East Coast/Asia (JL)/HNL/East Coast.
 
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hawaiian717
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
St. Louis eventually?


TWA used to fly HNL-STL with the 747 and later 767.
 
airbazar
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:26 pm

hinckley wrote:
I'm obviously an av enthusiast. That's why I'm here. But I've done more than my share of LH and ULH flights, including a bunch of multi-stop 30+ hour trips. And after a while, I've learned that sleeping for 8 hours makes sitting for 12 hours on a flight to Japan or 16 hours on a flight to HKG makes the trip much more bearable. I still love all the journeys, but after about six hours, a long metal tube is just a long metal tube.

The problem is some of us can't sleep on a plane, in Y no matter what time of day. That is why I also prefer the daytime flight to Europe :)
 
hinckley
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:26 pm

airbazar wrote:
The problem is some of us can't sleep on a plane, in Y no matter what time of day. That is why I also prefer the daytime flight to Europe :)


Of course that makes sense. As I said earlier, that's why they serve both vanilla and chocolate ice cream!
 
USAirKid
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:31 pm

hinckley wrote:
airbazar wrote:
The problem is some of us can't sleep on a plane, in Y no matter what time of day. That is why I also prefer the daytime flight to Europe :)


Of course that makes sense. As I said earlier, that's why they serve both vanilla and chocolate ice cream!


Ah yes, I remember I had the lasagna ice cream.
 
superjeff
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:11 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
No flatbed = no go.

As per the note, HA has first class flatbed seats.

The flight is longer than TATL flights to LHR, FRA, MUC etc.

It is also a quiet time at Terminal E and I believe barring the BA LHR flight there isn't much going on that time unless EK starts the 2nd flight to DXB.

Good going BOS!


Guaranteed flatbeds? If so, then HA might actually become an option to fly to Asia/Australia via Hawaii...



It already is. And, like Icelandair to Europe, you can stop over a couple of days enroute at no additional fare in most cases.
 
gwrudolph
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:45 pm

KanaHawaii wrote:
So for Hawaiian, the standardization of their A330 fleet - meaning that any of their A330's are outfitted and certified to fly this route along with all the other routes, really helps in the rotation of planes from short-to-long-to-short and vice versa routing for equalization of usage. The other thing that I am noting is that because of this standardization, if one plane goes tech, especially in Honolulu, a plane on standby can be brought in quickly to take over.

However, I don't think it works that well on the BOS-HNL route, since there is only one HA plane in that is the one you fly out on. It goes tech and your delayed or cancelled for that flight. Maybe HAL could chime in but is there a contingency plan if the BOS-HNL A-330 goes tech and can't be flown. Will the 330 from JFK be routed to HNL via BOS to pick up the passengers?


That scenario isn’t all that different than what happens in outstations of other airlines who only fly once/twice a day with short ground time. Not all that differerent than a IAH-SCL, IAH-RIO, EWR-BOM, EWR-DEL on UA for example. Every airlines has those situstions. You accommodate on other carriers
 
klm617
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:27 pm

77H wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Nice addition for HA and BOS. Logical move IMO. BOS was the largest eastern market without non-stop service. If HA expands east again, I think ORD is most in need.


And compete head to head against UA in their largest hub market? Don’t forget AA is also restarting ORD-HNL seasonally during holiday peak. If it performs well it may be added more frequently throughout the year.

I would be surprised if HA starts new service to any legacy carrier hub with existing nonstop service to HNL, especially if B6 doesn’t have a sizeable presence.

The US3 Hub-HNL flights receive feed from throughout their respective networks, HA would be reliant on O&D alone. Relying on O&D in a US3 hub market doesn’t seem like a winning proposition as the hubbed carrier has infinitely more brand recognition and an existing frequent flyer base.

Outside of the largest West Coast cities where head to head competition is inevitable HA has largely avoided the US3 where able. When HA added JFK they were the only carrier on the route. DL now flies it seasonally. I suspect they are starting BOS precisely because no one else does.

We have to consider that none of the US3 carriers would just let HA waltz in and take their lunch. They would certainly defend their markets. Over the last year we’ve seen the US3 become rather territorial in response to the U/LCCs expanding. HA would be treated no differently.

If HA wants to continue expanding further east domestically, starting DTW or PHL would be a safer bet so far as US3 hubs go as neither have nonstops to HNL. Another interesting possibility would be BWI. This would allow HA to tap into the DC market while not directly competing with UA out of IAD. It would also be a shot across the bow at WN will start Hawaii service at some point. BWI is one of WN’s largest stations and will no doubt have 1-stop connectivity to Hawaii. Offering a nonstop provides a service WN couldn’t replicate.

77H



I believe that DTW is more in need than ORD. HNL is one of DTW's largest O/D markets with no nonstop service.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:30 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
BOS-HNL I thought the "on a given day 500 passengers from Eastern New England travel to Hawaii" was an interesting quote. Its important to note its not an average. I'm sure those days are Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Also, Jan-March is not the greatest weather in Hawaii - I wouldn't be surprised if this goes to 4 weekly in Winter 2020.

Here's what could feed the route (BOS-HNL leg) based on Monday's B6 (includes codeshares) arrivals into Logan with 1 hr MCT: EWR, SYR, PVC, PIT, ACK, BWI, SDQ, STI, DCA, BHB, MVY, ACK, RKD, LGA, RDU, CLE, DTW, LEB.

Do the legacies interline with HA on these types of routes? I know they do interisland and you can actually book HNL-SYD with AA miles. The HNL-BOS leg could also feed VS and BA morning flights and there's a couple of DL/AA/AC flights though until A-B-C connectors are available these would be tough,


Why would you think people from places like PIT, CLE and DTW would fly to Boston to catch a flight to HNL.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:39 pm

I don't know about HNL, but my relatives fly CLE-EWR-LA area airports, and back again. It all comes down to the cheapest fares.
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:59 pm

klm617 wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
BOS-HNL I thought the "on a given day 500 passengers from Eastern New England travel to Hawaii" was an interesting quote. Its important to note its not an average. I'm sure those days are Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Also, Jan-March is not the greatest weather in Hawaii - I wouldn't be surprised if this goes to 4 weekly in Winter 2020.

Here's what could feed the route (BOS-HNL leg) based on Monday's B6 (includes codeshares) arrivals into Logan with 1 hr MCT: EWR, SYR, PVC, PIT, ACK, BWI, SDQ, STI, DCA, BHB, MVY, ACK, RKD, LGA, RDU, CLE, DTW, LEB.

Do the legacies interline with HA on these types of routes? I know they do interisland and you can actually book HNL-SYD with AA miles. The HNL-BOS leg could also feed VS and BA morning flights and there's a couple of DL/AA/AC flights though until A-B-C connectors are available these would be tough,


Why would you think people from places like PIT, CLE and DTW would fly to Boston to catch a flight to HNL.

For a cheaper fare, or if the flight from JFK is sold out they might go to BOS for the flight. Not any different than people on the coast who backtrack to YYZ or ORD for TATL flights.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
rbavfan
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:01 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
They better serve complimentary meals on such a long flight. If AA or UA does it, it will be Buy on Board.


Hawaiian still serves food even in coach
 
klm617
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:15 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
klm617 wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
BOS-HNL I thought the "on a given day 500 passengers from Eastern New England travel to Hawaii" was an interesting quote. Its important to note its not an average. I'm sure those days are Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Also, Jan-March is not the greatest weather in Hawaii - I wouldn't be surprised if this goes to 4 weekly in Winter 2020.

Here's what could feed the route (BOS-HNL leg) based on Monday's B6 (includes codeshares) arrivals into Logan with 1 hr MCT: EWR, SYR, PVC, PIT, ACK, BWI, SDQ, STI, DCA, BHB, MVY, ACK, RKD, LGA, RDU, CLE, DTW, LEB.

Do the legacies interline with HA on these types of routes? I know they do interisland and you can actually book HNL-SYD with AA miles. The HNL-BOS leg could also feed VS and BA morning flights and there's a couple of DL/AA/AC flights though until A-B-C connectors are available these would be tough,


Why would you think people from places like PIT, CLE and DTW would fly to Boston to catch a flight to HNL.

For a cheaper fare, or if the flight from JFK is sold out they might go to BOS for the flight. Not any different than people on the coast who backtrack to YYZ or ORD for TATL flights.


I live in Detroit and there is NO WAY I am going to fly close to 2 hours backwards just to get a cheaper fare.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
77H
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:32 pm

hawaiian717 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
St. Louis eventually?


TWA used to fly HNL-STL with the 747 and later 767.


Unlikely, the STL CBSA only had 20.9K visitors through July (last published data period). TWA made the flights work moons ago because it could leverage its hub at STL for feed. HA would be nearly 100% dependent on O&D pax of which there is simply not enough.

Most posters commenting on other potential domestic markets are focused on cities that would have to served by a WB. Let us not forget that HA has quite a few 21N's yet to be delivered. I would imagine most of the network growth will come from routes served by this aircraft rather than the 332s or 789s.
Looking at CBSA data the Hawaii Tourism Authority and HI DBEDT publishes, the ONT CBSA (88.9k pax thru Jul) seems like another potential add with 21N equipment provided HA feels that serving the airport wont cannibalize their LAX and LGB flights. Two wild card adds would be RNO (14.8k thru Jul) and EGE (17.7k thru Jul). I could see RNO working with such low inbound visitor numbers because of potential visitors outbound from Hawaii. LAS is extremely popular with Hawaii residents and HA could market RNO as a cheaper alternative to LAS.

77H
 
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airportugal310
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:35 pm

klm617 wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Why would you think people from places like PIT, CLE and DTW would fly to Boston to catch a flight to HNL.

For a cheaper fare, or if the flight from JFK is sold out they might go to BOS for the flight. Not any different than people on the coast who backtrack to YYZ or ORD for TATL flights.


I live in Detroit and there is NO WAY I am going to fly close to 2 hours backwards just to get a cheaper fare.


Good for you. You aren't "everybody"
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
hinckley
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:56 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I live in Detroit and there is NO WAY I am going to fly close to 2 hours backwards just to get a cheaper fare.


Good for you. You aren't "everybody"


None of us are "everybody", but I'd bet klm617 is in the majority. HA's flight will succeed or fail primarily with BOS O&D traffic. B6, for example, feeds a lot of BOS's TATL carriers' traffic, but BOS's TPAC flights - which have ballooned over the past few years - are mainly fed by BOS O&D and I think the HNL traffic profile will be similar. And let's not forget that there are A LOT of cheap fares to Hawaii on connections west of places like DTW.
Last edited by hinckley on Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jagraham
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:58 pm

xxcr wrote:
hinckley wrote:
Schedule is loaded into HA system:
HA89 BOS-HNL 8:00am - 1:40 pm
HA90 HNL-BOS 1:45pm - 6:00am

Leaving and arriving into Terminal E according to the Globe article.



Is HA using 2 frames for this flight? only 5 minutes on the ground..........did i miss something?



HA is coordinating with their early afternoon push. There are 12 departures to the mainland between 1230pm and 330pm. Then 2 departures to Japan in the 4 oclock hour. The rest are late at night.

When HA89 comes in it's going next somewhere else. While an aircraft that arrived probably between 10am and 1pm will do HA90.

Maybe if there's enough customers willing to pay a little more for a later flight??
 
klm617
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:59 pm

hinckley wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I live in Detroit and there is NO WAY I am going to fly close to 2 hours backwards just to get a cheaper fare.


Good for you. You aren't "everybody"


None of us are "everybody", but I'd bet klm617 is in the majority. HA's flight will succeed or fail primarily with BOS O&D traffic. B6, for example, feeds a lot of BOS's TATL carriers' traffic, but BOS's TPAC flights - which have ballooned over the past few years - are mainly fed by BOS O&D and I think the HNL traffic profile will be similar.


I agree 100% because a route being added like that is not based on feed but based on O/D numbers.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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pitbosflyer
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:57 pm

klm617 wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
BOS-HNL I thought the "on a given day 500 passengers from Eastern New England travel to Hawaii" was an interesting quote. Its important to note its not an average. I'm sure those days are Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Also, Jan-March is not the greatest weather in Hawaii - I wouldn't be surprised if this goes to 4 weekly in Winter 2020.

Here's what could feed the route (BOS-HNL leg) based on Monday's B6 (includes codeshares) arrivals into Logan with 1 hr MCT: EWR, SYR, PVC, PIT, ACK, BWI, SDQ, STI, DCA, BHB, MVY, ACK, RKD, LGA, RDU, CLE, DTW, LEB.

Do the legacies interline with HA on these types of routes? I know they do interisland and you can actually book HNL-SYD with AA miles. The HNL-BOS leg could also feed VS and BA morning flights and there's a couple of DL/AA/AC flights though until A-B-C connectors are available these would be tough,


Why would you think people from places like PIT, CLE and DTW would fly to Boston to catch a flight to HNL.


The same reason those people would have been willing to fly to NYC to catch a flight to HNL.....price.
 
airbazar
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:24 pm

klm617 wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Why would you think people from places like PIT, CLE and DTW would fly to Boston to catch a flight to HNL.

For a cheaper fare, or if the flight from JFK is sold out they might go to BOS for the flight. Not any different than people on the coast who backtrack to YYZ or ORD for TATL flights.


I live in Detroit and there is NO WAY I am going to fly close to 2 hours backwards just to get a cheaper fare.


You won't just like I will probably never fly the HA non-stop from BOS vs. the 1-stop via SFO but lots of other people will, as they already do today via NYC, IAD, or ATL. Airline revenue management creates the demand for those detours and plenty of passengers will take them. Some people also factor connection time into their total travel time. Some times backtracking 2 hours could get you at your destination earlier than a more direct route. Again, all thanks to airline revenue management.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:14 pm

As much as I love Hawaii, it's not a very appealing a warm-weather destination from the east coast. Between the flight time and the time zone changes, I much prefer to go to the Caribbean. But I do wish them the best of luck.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:05 am

Personally, Hawaii doesn't appeal to me either: too far, too expensive.
 
77H
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:29 am

VTKillarney wrote:
As much as I love Hawaii, it's not a very appealing a warm-weather destination from the east coast. Between the flight time and the time zone changes, I much prefer to go to the Caribbean. But I do wish them the best of luck.


According to published visitor statistics, 1.353M people from the Eastern half of the ConUS disagree with you. Those numbers are through July '18 only and have already exceeded total visitors for 2017.

77H
 
airbazar
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:38 pm

77H wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
As much as I love Hawaii, it's not a very appealing a warm-weather destination from the east coast. Between the flight time and the time zone changes, I much prefer to go to the Caribbean. But I do wish them the best of luck.


According to published visitor statistics, 1.353M people from the Eastern half of the ConUS disagree with you. Those numbers are through July '18 only and have already exceeded total visitors for 2017.

I much prefer Hawaii to the Caribbean and I live outside of Boston. I go to the Caribbean nearly every year for its proximity but I go to Hawaii for the experience. I've already been there 3 times and although it is a longer flight it's not really that bad. The return is a killer tho, for those of us who can't sleep on a plane. Hawaii is a much more authentic destination than the made-up resorts that 99% of visitors enjoy in the Caribbean. When you go to the Caribbean most people go there for 1 thing and 1 thing only: to lay on the beach. In Hawaii the beach is almost a secondary attraction. On my last trip 2 months ago, on the same day I witnessed the sunrise from atop a volcano above 13,000ft, hiked thru its lava fields then snorkeled among endangered sea turtles, and later watched an outrigger canoe race at sunset, and finally had a delicious, locally caught mahi-mahi dinner before going to bed. There isn't a single island in the Caribbean where you can have a day like that. And cost wise both are comparable unless we're talking about the chepo AI resorts in the DR or Mexico because there's absolutely nothing cheap about vacationing in St. Lucia, USVI or BVI. I know because I've been there.
 
Planes4you
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:51 pm

TEY1330 wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
They better serve complimentary meals on such a long flight. If AA or UA does it, it will be Buy on Board.

HA will serve at least hot sandwiches. AA serves complimentary wraps on DFW flights. Probably ORD, too.


American only serves sandwiches in economy in business they serve stuff you’d usually see on long hauls in business and 1st.Also why wouldn’t they feed the passengers its probably illegal if they didn’t serve you
 
tphuang
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:56 pm

I think with a direct flight, HI will be a lot more appealing to people on East Coast. There are stuff HI has to offer that Caribbean simply do not have.

The problem for me has always been the closer proximity of Europe. It's a lot easier for me to fly to Italy or Spain than to HI.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:41 pm

airbazar wrote:
. On my last trip 2 months ago, on the same day I witnessed the sunrise from atop a volcano above 13,000ft, hiked thru its lava fields then snorkeled among endangered sea turtles, and later watched an outrigger canoe race at sunset, and finally had a delicious, locally caught mahi-mahi dinner before going to bed. There isn't a single island in the Caribbean where you can have a day like that. .


Monsterrat... had a recently live volcano but no lava flows!! Hawaii doesn't have Carnival either! I like Caribbean and Hawaii equally though!
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
ScottB
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:32 pm

KanaHawaii wrote:
2. JetBlue is looking to get into the trans-Atlantic market. My suspicion is that they will run their flights out of Boston to the European continent (Dublin, London I suspect are the first places). That would give a prospective traveler from England/Ireland to Hawaii a one stop option in the same terminal at BOS to fly to Hawaii. Match the times right and it could be a record breaking run to London from Hawaii.


Coordinating the BOS-HNL flight times to connect with Europe departures & arrivals would result in poor connectivity for HA with its neighbor island flights at HNL; the flight would have to depart BOS around 1600 at the earliest which would result in an arrival in the neighborhood of 2100 local. Plus that's a really crummy arrival time if you're trying to capture O&D from Boston; no one wants to arrive at their hotel in Hawaii at midnight or later, feeling like it's 5 or 6 AM, and paying for an expensive extra hotel night.

adamh8297 wrote:
Here's what could feed the route (BOS-HNL leg) based on Monday's B6 (includes codeshares) arrivals into Logan with 1 hr MCT: EWR, SYR, PVC, PIT, ACK, BWI, SDQ, STI, DCA, BHB, MVY, ACK, RKD, LGA, RDU, CLE, DTW, LEB.


You sure about that? The HA flight will depart BOS at 0800. DTW arrives at 0748. LGA arrives at 0741. DCA arrives at 0724. RDU arrives at 0753. CLE arrives at 0741. MVY arrives 0727. LEB arrives 0755. BHB and RKD don't connect without an overnight stay. The amount of feed from PVC/ACK/SDQ/STI would be negligible. The EWR & SYR connections work. PIT & BWI would probably be OK as they arrive between 0700 and 0710.

KanaHawaii wrote:
I also think its a shot across Southwest's bow as I think SWA is marketing to the East Coast for their Hawaii operations. They know they can't get good market share if all they are marketing to is the West Coast, which is saturated.


I don't think Southwest is marketing Hawaii to the East Coast at all. They want to take what they view as their natural share of the West Coast-Hawaii market based on their existing market share in their large California stations; i.e. they have nearly 40% market share at SAN, 55% at SMF, and 73% at OAK, so they likely feel they can capture a commensurate share of traffic from those airports to Hawaii. Moreover, average fares to Hawaii tend to show an appreciable premium over routes of comparable stage length from those airports to markets in the contiguous U.S., so there's room to underprice the existing players.

Southwest has very few transcon flights which would be suitable for feeding Hawaii flights at the California gateways they've announced and exactly zero flights from California to BOS. Maybe HA is trying to send a message to WN, but if they are, they fundamentally misunderstand WN's plans for Hawaii and I can't believe they'd be that blind.

KanaHawaii wrote:
4. The pricing that they are proposing is somewhat attractive - sub $700 for economy, sub $2,000 for first class. Someone is thinking that if they come in big on discounts it might dissuade someone else, like American from Pittsburgh or Charlotte to get into the nonstop market to Hawaii.


These are promotional fares. I don't think HA wants to be in the business of 6-cent RASM in economy on long-haul.

KanaHawaii wrote:
Will the 330 from JFK be routed to HNL via BOS to pick up the passengers?


Almost certainly not, given that (1) there will already be passengers waiting in JFK and almost certainly only a handful of empty seats, if any, and (2) the flight crews probably can't do JFK-BOS-HNL and stay legal in terms of duty time limitations.
 
airbazar
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:37 am

ScottB wrote:
Coordinating the BOS-HNL flight times to connect with Europe departures & arrivals would result in poor connectivity for HA with its neighbor island flights at HNL; the flight would have to depart BOS around 1600 at the earliest which would result in an arrival in the neighborhood of 2100 local. Plus that's a really crummy arrival time if you're trying to capture O&D from Boston; no one wants to arrive at their hotel in Hawaii at midnight or later, feeling like it's 5 or 6 AM, and paying for an expensive extra hotel night.

I do but I'm weird like that :) Same thing when going to Europe. i much prefer fly during the day and going to bed after my flight arrives.
One of the reasons I prefer to connect on the West coast is because it allows me to leave my house late and rested, I get to skip the rush hour traffic to get to the airport too. I ate a proper diner in SFO and arrived in Hawaii at 8ish pm. Was in bed by 10pm and woke up completely refreshed to witness a beautiful sunrise over Kailua-Kona harbor. It doesn't get any better :)
Now the HA flight: To catch a 9am flight out of Boston I have to drag myself out of bed no later than 5am and spend at least 1.5 hours in bumper to bumper traffic to the airport. By the time I get thru security I'd feel like I've been traveling for 12 hours then I have to sit in a tight Y seat for another 11 hours. And then upon arriving at my hotel some time around 3pm, I would be so exhausted I'd probably pass out and sleep until about 2am.
Either way I'm paying for an extra hotel night and not enjoying having much of a day.
 
bagoldex
Posts: 1027
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:42 am

airbazar wrote:
Now the HA flight: To catch a 9am flight out of Boston I have to drag myself out of bed no later than 5am and spend at least 1.5 hours in bumper to bumper traffic to the airport. By the time I get thru security I'd feel like I've been traveling for 12 hours then I have to sit in a tight Y seat for another 11 hours.


Under those circumstances I'd spend the night before at the airport Hilton.
 
RushmoreAir
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:50 am

ScottB wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
Here's what could feed the route (BOS-HNL leg) based on Monday's B6 (includes codeshares) arrivals into Logan with 1 hr MCT: EWR, SYR, PVC, PIT, ACK, BWI, SDQ, STI, DCA, BHB, MVY, ACK, RKD, LGA, RDU, CLE, DTW, LEB.


You sure about that? The HA flight will depart BOS at 0800. DTW arrives at 0748. LGA arrives at 0741. DCA arrives at 0724. RDU arrives at 0753. CLE arrives at 0741. MVY arrives 0727. LEB arrives 0755. BHB and RKD don't connect without an overnight stay. The amount of feed from PVC/ACK/SDQ/STI would be negligible. The EWR & SYR connections work. PIT & BWI would probably be OK as they arrive between 0700 and 0710.


HA 89 will only depart at 0800 on Fridays in April. From Sat - Tue it departs at 0855. The Friday time also floats throughout the schedule, by summer (when block times are shorter due to less wind) BOS-HNL is scheduled at 0855 across the week. This will allow all of the above connections with the filed 55 min B6-HA MCT.

ScottB wrote:
KanaHawaii wrote:
Will the 330 from JFK be routed to HNL via BOS to pick up the passengers?


Almost certainly not, given that (1) there will already be passengers waiting in JFK and almost certainly only a handful of empty seats, if any, and (2) the flight crews probably can't do JFK-BOS-HNL and stay legal in terms of duty time limitations.


Nope ... T-100 data says JFK-HNL averaged 89.5% LF for the twelve months ended June 2018. In the unlikely event of a complete cancel, probably just reaccom on B6/HA over the west coast or on another airline entirely.
NW UA DL F9 CO WN LO QF FI AC MU CA EU LH LX DY B6 AA HA NZ MW HU U2 SK AF EK IB HX WS G4 AZ IG 4B

The views and opinions as expressed in this post are entirely my own and are not those of my employer, Hawaiian Airlines, Inc
 
airbazar
Posts: 9615
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:55 am

bagoldex wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Now the HA flight: To catch a 9am flight out of Boston I have to drag myself out of bed no later than 5am and spend at least 1.5 hours in bumper to bumper traffic to the airport. By the time I get thru security I'd feel like I've been traveling for 12 hours then I have to sit in a tight Y seat for another 11 hours.


Under those circumstances I'd spend the night before at the airport Hilton.


As much as I like airplanes if I'm going to pay for an extra hotel night I'd rather it be in Hawaii LOL
By the way I do the same when I go to the Caribbean, if possible. My last trip to CUN I left BOS in the afternoon, overnighted in a cheap airport hotel in IAH and flew to CUN mid morning the next day. Was at the beach by early afternoon. I like starting my vacations rested :)
 
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FBWFTW
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:53 pm

I’m late to the party as usual lol (Cause I like to be on Island time ;) )

I’m beyond excited for this flight-living in BOS and having done BOS-JFK-HNL-JFK-BOS on HA four times, I’d like to offer an answer or two on some of the questions on the plane going tech/getting up early for a long flight etc.

Outbound to HNL, I’ve left from JFK at both 9am and 10am-the 9am was once on a Tuesday in January. Each time to GUARANTEE the connection in JFK, I only had TWO options off the B6 schedule, to catch HA51-the 5:30am B6917 to JFK or the occasional 7:27am B62317 (which wasn’t an option all the times I went) so basically to get to JFK before the 10am departure, it HAS to be the first flight out of BOS. We’re lucky because we literally live about 8 minutes from Logan via car/taxi/Lyft etc. and can be to the airport fairly fast. Assuming everything was packed and allowing 60 minutes for security, we could wake up at 3:45-4am and be out the door by 4-4:15am and still make it to BOS by 4:30. Even if there was a daily 6 or 7am flight, by that time, Terminal C is generally PACKED (the reason-HA going to Term E) and you run the risk of the slightest delay causing you to sit at JFK for a night. I’m actually curious how many folks may have missed their 10am connection to HNL due to an issue at BOS.

This flight eliminates all of that EXCEPT for any tech issues... To get the BOS pax to HNL on the same day if the HA90 goes tech they’d have to
A. Have room on HA51 (which is usually packed)
B. HOLD the JFK-HNL flight for a B6 connection from BOS, OR
C. Send HA51 to BOS before HNL

More likely, I don’t think pax will make it to HNL that same day unfortunately.

Can’t wait to surprise my wife with flatbed tickets for this flight for our anniversary!!
Airbus lover and unashamed avgeek
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GSPSPOT
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:51 pm

airbazar wrote:
77H wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
As much as I love Hawaii, it's not a very appealing a warm-weather destination from the east coast. Between the flight time and the time zone changes, I much prefer to go to the Caribbean. But I do wish them the best of luck.


According to published visitor statistics, 1.353M people from the Eastern half of the ConUS disagree with you. Those numbers are through July '18 only and have already exceeded total visitors for 2017.

I much prefer Hawaii to the Caribbean and I live outside of Boston. I go to the Caribbean nearly every year for its proximity but I go to Hawaii for the experience. I've already been there 3 times and although it is a longer flight it's not really that bad. The return is a killer tho, for those of us who can't sleep on a plane. Hawaii is a much more authentic destination than the made-up resorts that 99% of visitors enjoy in the Caribbean. When you go to the Caribbean most people go there for 1 thing and 1 thing only: to lay on the beach. In Hawaii the beach is almost a secondary attraction. On my last trip 2 months ago, on the same day I witnessed the sunrise from atop a volcano above 13,000ft, hiked thru its lava fields then snorkeled among endangered sea turtles, and later watched an outrigger canoe race at sunset, and finally had a delicious, locally caught mahi-mahi dinner before going to bed. There isn't a single island in the Caribbean where you can have a day like that. And cost wise both are comparable unless we're talking about the chepo AI resorts in the DR or Mexico because there's absolutely nothing cheap about vacationing in St. Lucia, USVI or BVI. I know because I've been there.

Completely agreed. The Caribbean has its allure (blinding white sand, calm clear water), but those distinctive mountains, the Polynesian culture and the huge Asian influences just make Hawaii superior in my view.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
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FBWFTW
Posts: 73
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Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:55 pm

GSPSPOT wrote:
airbazar wrote:
77H wrote:

According to published visitor statistics, 1.353M people from the Eastern half of the ConUS disagree with you. Those numbers are through July '18 only and have already exceeded total visitors for 2017.

I much prefer Hawaii to the Caribbean and I live outside of Boston. I go to the Caribbean nearly every year for its proximity but I go to Hawaii for the experience. I've already been there 3 times and although it is a longer flight it's not really that bad. The return is a killer tho, for those of us who can't sleep on a plane. Hawaii is a much more authentic destination than the made-up resorts that 99% of visitors enjoy in the Caribbean. When you go to the Caribbean most people go there for 1 thing and 1 thing only: to lay on the beach. In Hawaii the beach is almost a secondary attraction. On my last trip 2 months ago, on the same day I witnessed the sunrise from atop a volcano above 13,000ft, hiked thru its lava fields then snorkeled among endangered sea turtles, and later watched an outrigger canoe race at sunset, and finally had a delicious, locally caught mahi-mahi dinner before going to bed. There isn't a single island in the Caribbean where you can have a day like that. And cost wise both are comparable unless we're talking about the chepo AI resorts in the DR or Mexico because there's absolutely nothing cheap about vacationing in St. Lucia, USVI or BVI. I know because I've been there.

Completely agreed. The Caribbean has its allure (blinding white sand, calm clear water), but those distinctive mountains, the Polynesian culture and the huge Asian influences just make Hawaii superior in my view.


That makes 3 of us for sure.... But then again, being an avgeek, the ride is half the fun for me!
Airbus lover and unashamed avgeek
Flown on 721/2, 732/5, 741, 752, 762/3ER, L1011, DC8, DC9/10, MD88, E75/90, A320/21, A332/3
Fav Plane(s): A330-243/L1011
Fav Airlines: B6/HA/VX
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DC10LAXJFK
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:46 pm

Re: Hawaiian going to BOS

Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:31 pm

FBWFTW wrote:
GSPSPOT wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I much prefer Hawaii to the Caribbean and I live outside of Boston. I go to the Caribbean nearly every year for its proximity but I go to Hawaii for the experience. I've already been there 3 times and although it is a longer flight it's not really that bad. The return is a killer tho, for those of us who can't sleep on a plane. Hawaii is a much more authentic destination than the made-up resorts that 99% of visitors enjoy in the Caribbean. When you go to the Caribbean most people go there for 1 thing and 1 thing only: to lay on the beach. In Hawaii the beach is almost a secondary attraction. On my last trip 2 months ago, on the same day I witnessed the sunrise from atop a volcano above 13,000ft, hiked thru its lava fields then snorkeled among endangered sea turtles, and later watched an outrigger canoe race at sunset, and finally had a delicious, locally caught mahi-mahi dinner before going to bed. There isn't a single island in the Caribbean where you can have a day like that. And cost wise both are comparable unless we're talking about the chepo AI resorts in the DR or Mexico because there's absolutely nothing cheap about vacationing in St. Lucia, USVI or BVI. I know because I've been there.

Completely agreed. The Caribbean has its allure (blinding white sand, calm clear water), but those distinctive mountains, the Polynesian culture and the huge Asian influences just make Hawaii superior in my view.


That makes 3 of us for sure.... But then again, being an avgeek, the ride is half the fun for me!


Agreed. I love Hawaii, and since moving to the East coast 30 years ago, i had never gone back until 2012 and have been back 7 times since then usually for just a few days. Mind you, flying in F lie-flat bed is critical for food and comfort, and worth the time since the flight is part of the vacation experience.

Hawaii just exudes something special that's hard to describe. You can't get me away from the beach when I'm there, but the beaches are pretty exotic. Best thing in the world is an early morning stroll along the Kona coast watching the sun come up over Mauna Kea.

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