dcajet
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COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:59 pm

MIA
TPA
SFO
LAX
BOS
JFK
COR
SCL
VVI
BOG

and a few more: https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status ... 2111334400
Last edited by atcsundevil on Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Aircraft type corrected
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axiom
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:10 pm

Many of these sound right -- SFO, LAS, LAX, SCL, COR being among their longer routes. TPA is a bit of a surprise, from a capacity perspective.
 
A388
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:13 pm

TPA indeed comes as a surprise to me too but I read in an article that SFO was chosen because of UA being their Star Alliance partner who also has the MAX9 in case they need their support and training CM too. Maybe TPA was chosen for a similar purpose?

A388
 
Kilgen
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:35 pm

Looking to the seat configuration (when you try to buy a ticket), looks like they only added 12 seats in Y from their B737-800B config (the ones with PTV in Y). Thus the total number of seats are 166 = 16 J + 150 Y. This number is 4 less than what they put in their fleet slides, where they put 170 as the total number of seats for the B737 Max 9.

Looks like they are putting the B737-9 in short routes as well either to showcase the plane, or to make sure it is flying as much as possible per day after flying a long route such as SFO, EZE, etc instead of being in the ground.
 
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:45 pm

*B39M
SFO
 
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nikeson13
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:33 pm

Interview with CEO of Copa where they mention the MAX http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ir-451418/
The airline will deploy the aircraft on its longest routes from Panama City, with San Francisco the first destination to be served by the jets. "It's our longest [route] and the Max 9 will have the best performance," says Heilbron. "It will be able to carry full loads, which means more cargo, and we will get the full Max cost advantage by operating it on our longest routes."

San Francisco was also chosen because it is a hub of Copa's partner United Airlines, which already operates the 737 Max 9, in case the Panamanian airline requires support for its new aircraft type. Boeing's facilities in Washington state are also close by, Heilbron points out. "Those are two factors that will help the reliability of the aircraft, which is very important for Copa," he says.
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:37 pm

A388 wrote:
TPA indeed comes as a surprise to me too but I read in an article that SFO was chosen because of UA being their Star Alliance partner who also has the MAX9 in case they need their support and training CM too. Maybe TPA was chosen for a similar purpose?

A388


I think for now all of UA's 737-MAX9 routes are out of IAH, so I'm not sure that's the reason. (Please correct me if I am mistaken)

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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:37 pm

A388 wrote:
TPA indeed comes as a surprise to me too but I read in an article that SFO was chosen because of UA being their Star Alliance partner who also has the MAX9 in case they need their support and training CM too. Maybe TPA was chosen for a similar purpose?

A388


Strictly payload. PTY-SFO is among the longest 737 routes in existence, and the 7M9 will be able to carry greater payloads than the 738.
 
as739x
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:38 pm

How many 7M9 does Copa have on order? I've checked a few sites and none say
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Kilgen
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:45 pm

as739x wrote:
How many 7M9 does Copa have on order? I've checked a few sites and none say


They have in order a total of 71 B737 Max. From news reports 15 of those are B737-10. If you look at their fleet plan: https://copa.gcs-web.com/encrypt/files?file=nasdaq_kms/assets/2008/09/08/0-00-00/Fleet_Plan.pdf&file_alias=2601, at least 15 are 7M9 (5 that arrive this year and 10 next year).

From their 2017 anual report: https://copa.gcs-web.com/static-files/350c9563-6aab-455f-82dd-f7041f019b16 they have the flexibility to choose between the different members of the 737 MAX family.
 
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:52 pm

Thank for the link Kilgen
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windian425
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:53 pm

Can't remember how many in total on order but they will receive 5 by the end of 2018. What i do remember is that most of their MAX orders are not confirmed for MAX 8 / MAX 9.
 
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:31 pm

A388 wrote:
TPA indeed comes as a surprise to me too but I read in an article that SFO was chosen because of UA being their Star Alliance partner who also has the MAX9 in case they need their support and training CM too. Maybe TPA was chosen for a similar purpose?

A388


TPA has maintenance facilities, but to my knowledge isn't doing MAX work -- yet. It's likely a matter of utilization, but I still would have imagined MCO would get the capacity first. It's a nice vote of confidence in the TPA market. Good to see them grow their turf before someone else opens up TPA-BOG and beyond.
 
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:31 pm

Sometimes, when Copa goes from 1 to 2 flights a day in a market, they aren't always building traffic to justify it & had to pull back. So, by adding the Max 9 to TPA, they know they have a winner with that one flight and will make it work - where as markets like LAX & CUN have flights leaving within 10-20 minutes of eachother because they know they need to hit a specific bank (s) of traffic.
xx
 
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:37 pm

TPA was along with LAX & ANC one of the first cities to see the 7M9 from IAH

TPA-IAH had been seeing some heavy cargo loads this summer.
 
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:02 pm

Wonder why they are not deploying it YYZ early on?
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:10 pm

axiom wrote:
Many of these sound right -- SFO, LAS, LAX, SCL, COR being among their longer routes. TPA is a bit of a surprise, from a capacity perspective.


MIA and TPA maybe aircraft rotation purposes while coming back from SFO and LAX. So TPA will make sense.
 
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:14 pm

I browsed the configuration and it is C16/Y150. 166 total. 12 more seats in Y vs the 738 subfleet for +6 hours flights.
 
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:16 pm

Is it streaming entertainment or AVOD?
 
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:19 pm

FlightLevel360 wrote:
Is it streaming entertainment or AVOD?


As far as it is my understanding it is streaming and you will need to download the Copa APP. Actually a friend of mine who recently flew to BOG told me one 737-800 came with this streaming feature already. So, seems, they already started. It is a shame, no Wi-Fi. This was a golden oportunity to upgrade the service.
 
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:31 pm

MapleLeaf789 wrote:
Wonder why they are not deploying it YYZ early on?


YYZ has an 8 hour ground time, which is probably not the best for the new toy, better utilization elsewhere.
 
dcajet
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 9:04 pm

codc10 wrote:
A388 wrote:
TPA indeed comes as a surprise to me too but I read in an article that SFO was chosen because of UA being their Star Alliance partner who also has the MAX9 in case they need their support and training CM too. Maybe TPA was chosen for a similar purpose?

A388


Strictly payload. PTY-SFO is among the longest 737 routes in existence, and the 7M9 will be able to carry greater payloads than the 738.


Not so much length of the route (EZE and MVD are longer) but as it is a SE to NW route (PTY-SFO) the headwinds component can be brutal at some times. Pretty much it is consistently payload restricted with the 738.
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codc10
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Re: COPA 7M9 Routes from PTY filed

Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:49 pm

dcajet wrote:
codc10 wrote:
A388 wrote:
TPA indeed comes as a surprise to me too but I read in an article that SFO was chosen because of UA being their Star Alliance partner who also has the MAX9 in case they need their support and training CM too. Maybe TPA was chosen for a similar purpose?

A388


Strictly payload. PTY-SFO is among the longest 737 routes in existence, and the 7M9 will be able to carry greater payloads than the 738.


Not so much length of the route (EZE and MVD are longer) but as it is a SE to NW route (PTY-SFO) the headwinds component can be brutal at some times. Pretty much it is consistently payload restricted with the 738.


SFO is ever so slightly farther than EZE and a bit shorter than MVD, but the point is well-taken. The 7M9 can fly more weight a longer distance than the 738.
 
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:04 am

SCL is announced, but not EZE? (COR was announced.) Copa really could use the increased capacity into Argentina given that the current bilateral is maxed out (pending additions). That said, I would probably wonder why there isn't a Y+ class that could attract some higher fares, given that CM does 737 service about as far as one can legally dispatch a 737 NG in the Americans...take out 4 rows of Y and instead have 3 Y+ rows, making it J16Y+18Y126.
 
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:10 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
SCL is announced, but nothing in Argentina? Copa really could use the increased capacity into Argentina given that the current bilateral is maxed out (pending additions). That said, I would probably wonder why there isn't a Y+ class that could attract some higher fares, given that CM does 737 service about as far as one can legally dispatch a 737 NG in the Americans...take out 4 rows of Y and instead have 3 Y+ rows, making it J16Y+18Y126.


COR is Cordoba, Argentina. CM has two daily flights from PTY.
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:18 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
SCL is announced, but not EZE? (COR was announced.) Copa really could use the increased capacity into Argentina given that the current bilateral is maxed out (pending additions). That said, I would probably wonder why there isn't a Y+ class that could attract some higher fares, given that CM does 737 service about as far as one can legally dispatch a 737 NG in the Americans...take out 4 rows of Y and instead have 3 Y+ rows, making it J16Y+18Y126.


CM already charges a premium for the 1st 2 rows in Y and the overwing exits.
xx
 
dcajet
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:02 pm

Here are the dates for CM 737 MAX 9 service intro:

PTY - MIA 20/9
PTY - SFO 21/9
PTY - LAX 22/9
PTY - BOG 3/10
PTY - CTG 3/10
PTY - SJO 6/10
PTY - MCO 3/11
PTY - JFK 5/11
PTY - HAV 6/12
PTY - COR 8/12
PTY - CUN 10/12
PTY - BOS 21/12
PTY - MGA 22/12
PTY - PUJ 29/12
PTY -LAS 29/12

Did not see SCL on the list.
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Kilgen
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:20 am

dcajet wrote:
Here are the dates for CM 737 MAX 9 service intro:

PTY - MIA 20/9
PTY - SFO 21/9
PTY - LAX 22/9
PTY - BOG 3/10
PTY - CTG 3/10
PTY - SJO 6/10
PTY - MCO 3/11
PTY - JFK 5/11
PTY - HAV 6/12
PTY - COR 8/12
PTY - CUN 10/12
PTY - BOS 21/12
PTY - MGA 22/12
PTY - PUJ 29/12
PTY -LAS 29/12

Did not see SCL on the list.


From https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/280579/copa-airlines-outlines-planned-737-max-9-network-from-late-sep-2018/
Here are some that are missing from your list:

PTY - SAP 01/12
PTY - VVI 10/12
PTY - TPA 20/09
PTY – SCL 6/12

What I find surprising is no EZE or GRU listed yet.
 
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:43 am

Thanks. I knew SCL had been announced too... As well as TPA & VVI. Was not aware of SAP. I am sure EZE & GRU won't be too far behind. I find interesting that in Argentina COR was chosen over EZE, but not surprised given COR's traffic growth over the past 24 months.
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:36 am

dcajet wrote:
PTY - MIA 20/9
PTY - SFO 21/9
PTY - LAX 22/9
PTY - BOG 3/10
PTY - CTG 3/10
PTY - SJO 6/10
PTY - MCO 3/11
PTY - JFK 5/11
PTY - HAV 6/12
PTY - COR 8/12
PTY - CUN 10/12
PTY - BOS 21/12
PTY - MGA 22/12
PTY - PUJ 29/12
PTY -LAS 29/12

Interesting to note that their longest route of all (MVD) is absent....

Maybe the distance is just too much + the yield too low, to justify the hit they'd need to take in order to make it?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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usxguy
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:52 am

they only have 5 planes coming this year...
xx
 
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:14 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
dcajet wrote:
PTY - MIA 20/9
PTY - SFO 21/9
PTY - LAX 22/9
PTY - BOG 3/10
PTY - CTG 3/10
PTY - SJO 6/10
PTY - MCO 3/11
PTY - JFK 5/11
PTY - HAV 6/12
PTY - COR 8/12
PTY - CUN 10/12
PTY - BOS 21/12
PTY - MGA 22/12
PTY - PUJ 29/12
PTY -LAS 29/12

Interesting to note that their longest route of all (MVD) is absent....

Maybe the distance is just too much + the yield too low, to justify the hit they'd need to take in order to make it?


usxguy wrote:
they only have 5 planes coming this year...


MVD is a tiny market compared with the big towns in the neighborhood, such as EZE & GRU and SCL to a lesser extent. Lets see where they go next when more MAX 9 arrive in PTY. And even more interesting is where they will send the -10.
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Kilgen
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:22 pm

In today's ceremony of the arrival of B737 Max 9, they showed the interior of the new B737 Max 9 and it looks like they will be a 3 class aircraft. Business Class will have 16 lie flat seats, Economy Extra with 24 seats with 10 inch displays and Economy will only get streaming (no individual screens).

Video of the cabin inside the following tweet: https://twitter.com/CopaAirlines/status/1042156014932570113
 
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:33 pm

Kilgen wrote:
In today's ceremony of the arrival of B737 Max 9, they showed the interior of the new B737 Max 9 and it looks like they will be a 3 class aircraft. Business Class will have 16 lie flat seats, Economy Extra with 24 seats with 10 inch displays and Economy will only get streaming (no individual screens).

Video of the cabin inside the following tweet: https://twitter.com/CopaAirlines/status/1042156014932570113


So they give Economy Extra TVs and rip em out for regular Economy, que the triggered PTV activist. What are the weight savings for this? It’s the only good reason that’s a I can see for them to do this.
 
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:47 pm

Kilgen wrote:
Business Class will have 16 lie flat seat

I assume I missed it previously being announced but the lie flat seat is a pretty big deal!
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:48 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Kilgen wrote:
In today's ceremony of the arrival of B737 Max 9, they showed the interior of the new B737 Max 9 and it looks like they will be a 3 class aircraft. Business Class will have 16 lie flat seats, Economy Extra with 24 seats with 10 inch displays and Economy will only get streaming (no individual screens).

Video of the cabin inside the following tweet: https://twitter.com/CopaAirlines/status/1042156014932570113


So they give Economy Extra TVs and rip em out for regular Economy, que the triggered PTV activist. What are the weight savings for this? It’s the only good reason that’s a I can see for them to do this.


It's not just weight, but maintenance as well. Not worth the the investment anymore when you can just toss on Wifi and In-seat power. I love PTV's as well, but with most people traveling with tablets and phones, PTV's, so becoming much more obsolete.
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:10 am

YVR should be possible with the max
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:26 am

These will be the first planes with lay flat seats. I am surprised to see so many shorter routes. I thought they would want to use them on longer flights where the old business class is not competitive
 
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:46 am

dcajet wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
dcajet wrote:
PTY - MIA 20/9
PTY - SFO 21/9
PTY - LAX 22/9
PTY - BOG 3/10
PTY - CTG 3/10
PTY - SJO 6/10
PTY - MCO 3/11
PTY - JFK 5/11
PTY - HAV 6/12
PTY - COR 8/12
PTY - CUN 10/12
PTY - BOS 21/12
PTY - MGA 22/12
PTY - PUJ 29/12
PTY -LAS 29/12

Interesting to note that their longest route of all (MVD) is absent....

Maybe the distance is just too much + the yield too low, to justify the hit they'd need to take in order to make it?


usxguy wrote:
they only have 5 planes coming this year...


MVD is a tiny market compared with the big towns in the neighborhood, such as EZE & GRU and SCL to a lesser extent. Lets see where they go next when more MAX 9 arrive in PTY. And even more interesting is where they will send the -10.


I don't see CM sending their first 9Max now to either EZE or GRU, so market size has nothing to do here.
For example tiny markets such as COR is getting the Max service right away.
 
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:48 am

Pu752 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Interesting to note that their longest route of all (MVD) is absent....

Maybe the distance is just too much + the yield too low, to justify the hit they'd need to take in order to make it?


usxguy wrote:
they only have 5 planes coming this year...


MVD is a tiny market compared with the big towns in the neighborhood, such as EZE & GRU and SCL to a lesser extent. Lets see where they go next when more MAX 9 arrive in PTY. And even more interesting is where they will send the -10.


I don't see CM sending their first 9Max now to either EZE or GRU, so market size has nothing to do here.
For example tiny markets such as COR is getting the Max service right away.

I'm betting this first deployment has a lot to do with what markets are conducively timed to rotate the aircraft through, as well.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:43 pm

Looks like this hasn't been updated in a while:

PTY-EZE will be flown 06/12, 08/12, 09/12, 10/12, 11/12, 12/12, 13/12, 14/12, 15/12, 16/12, 17/12, 18/12, 19/12, 24/12, 26/12, 29/12, 31/12, 07/01 and so on, everyday in one of the 3 daily flights.

It looks like it'll be flown during the start of the southern high season, assuming CM will want to see how much they can push tin and reevaluate deployment.

Saludos.
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:41 am

For Pty- Lax does anybody knows the flight time the max 9 will be flying?
 
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:37 pm

Cblk wrote:
For Pty- Lax does anybody knows the flight time the max 9 will be flying?


Same as the current 737-800 flying the route, in the region of 6 hrs.
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:42 pm

Pu752 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Interesting to note that their longest route of all (MVD) is absent....

Maybe the distance is just too much + the yield too low, to justify the hit they'd need to take in order to make it?


usxguy wrote:
they only have 5 planes coming this year...


MVD is a tiny market compared with the big towns in the neighborhood, such as EZE & GRU and SCL to a lesser extent. Lets see where they go next when more MAX 9 arrive in PTY. And even more interesting is where they will send the -10.


I don't see CM sending their first 9Max now to either EZE or GRU, so market size has nothing to do here.
For example tiny markets such as COR is getting the Max service right away.


EZE will be getting the MAX 6/12. I would not call COR tiny: while it may not have the same amount of international traffic as MVD (it's getting there though), when you factor in domestic traffic, it certainly blows MVD out of the water.
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:46 pm

Revised destination list (EZE added) and beginning dates for COPA's MAX 9 debut in deep South America:

SCL: December 6th
EZE: December 7th
COR: December 8th
VVI: December 10th
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:29 pm

What does B39M mean?
✈︎
 
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Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:30 pm

737 MAX 9.
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Thenoflyzone
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Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:51 am

Goodbye wrote:
What does B39M mean?


More specifically, it's the ICAO code for the Max 9. Mostly used by airlines for flight planning purposes and ATC.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
aviator2000
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 11:19 am

Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:19 am

Do those aircraft have the range to fly nonstop to Europe?
 
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VirginFlyer
Posts: 5051
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: COPA B39M Routes from PTY filed

Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:14 am

aviator2000 wrote:
Do those aircraft have the range to fly nonstop to Europe?

I wouldn’t think so - LIS would be the closest to PTY, and that is 4144nm great circle distance.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh

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