VS11
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AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:14 am

American Airlines Considers Ending Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... imits-fees

"Doing away with changes to nonrefundable fares would make airline flights more like baseball games or concerts, where customers aren’t typically reimbursed if they buy tickets and can’t use them. Carriers currently consider the ability to change a nonrefundable ticket as a service that carries a cost. Such fees, which run up to $200, anger many passengers.

The language limiting what carriers can charge for ticket changes is being supported by consumer groups as a bipartisan provision. It is in a version of an aviation-policy bill sponsored by Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota, who is chairman of the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee. Parker called the proposal “really bad for consumers” last week."

I agree with Doug Parker. While some tickets are not worth the change fee, in many cases, especially flying internationally, paying $200 to change a ticket that cost $1,000 is well worth it. If you want flexibility without fees, get a refundable ticket.
 
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admanager
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:22 am

I can hear Southwest in the background saying "Go for it Parker, give your customers another reason to choose Southwest"
 
aaflyer777
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:24 am

And yet somehow Southwest makes money without charging change fees...
 
phxa340
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:31 am

Then congress will just pass an amendment to the legislation to force Airlines to allow changes. This is a product of Airlines own greed. When they fee the public to death, government tends to listen to their constituents. I am all for reasonable fees, but Airlines (some of them) IMO have gone too far.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:37 am

So a non-refundable ticket should result in a non-used seat. You paid for it, so its yours, whether you are in it or not.
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deltal1011man
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:37 am

phxa340 wrote:
Then congress will just pass an amendment to the legislation to force Airlines to allow changes. This is a product of Airlines own greed. When they fee the public to death, government tends to listen to their constituents. I am all for reasonable fees, but Airlines (some of them) IMO have gone too far.

And people like you should be taxed more to cover those loses for the airlines.

but just people who want government control of airline fares, not those of us that want the government to butt out and enjoy the continued unbundling of fares.



By a non-refundable ticket and don't show or change (even for a fee) sucks for you. Welcome to being an adult.
Last edited by deltal1011man on Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
phlswaflyer
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:38 am

Parker cares about Parker. Kirby cares about Kirby. They both come from the same school of " how much can we screw our customers and make ourselves rich..?" There is not and never has been a rationale for a ticket change fee and one as high as $200. Never. Ever. They will sell every seat because they are reducing flights and frequency so they do NOT lose a stinking cent. Southwest makes plenty of money, runs a MUCH better shop and people like to fly them.
 
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:38 am

phxa340 wrote:
This is a product of Airlines own greed. When they fee the public to death, government tends to listen to their constituents.


Actually, it's a product of consumers being driven by the desire for low fares. The main reason for the existence of change fees is to keep customers from changing their tickets in the first place. If airlines could be guaranteed that purchasers would never, ever change, the fares at the top end would come down, but the fares on the low end would go up somewhat. The higher-end fares are high precisely because they DO permit flexibility like refunds or changes without a fee, whereas the trade-off on a low-end, discounted fare is that you can't get your money back, and changing the ticket requires a fee.

Don't like the fees? Then prepare for higher prices.
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RushmoreAir
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:38 am

Change fees exist, not because they're a revenue source (although that is a nice bonus), but because they primarily serve as a disincentive for corporate/high willingness-to-pay customers to choose the lowest available fare class instead of buying up to a more flexible fare. Change fees work because they fence off the lower fares for early-booking leisure passengers who are OK with locking themselves into a time.

Now with (U)LCC competition, some markets have unrestricted fare structures anyway (so this no longer applies). However, in order to maintain the same average fare as today, airlines in markets with restricted or semi-restricted fare structures will no longer be able to sell the lowest priced fare for fear of buy-down from high WTP customers. More likely, you'll see airlines trying to invent new RM fences, such as a much greater price differential between basic economy and regular economy (encouraging business travelers to buy regular economy).
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jco613
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:39 am

deltal1011man wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
Then congress will just pass an amendment to the legislation to force Airlines to allow changes. This is a product of Airlines own greed. When they fee the public to death, government tends to listen to their constituents. I am all for reasonable fees, but Airlines (some of them) IMO have gone too far.

And people like you should be taxed more to cover those loses for the airlines.

but just people who want government control of airline fares, not those of us that want the government to butt out and enjoy the continued unbundling of fares.

exactly! Leave it up to the consumer! Right now, there are options. Whether it's a fully refundable ticket or another airline. I hate change fees. I'd imagine most do. But I know it's there and if I need to use them, I'll suck it up and do it.
 
VS11
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:40 am

phxa340 wrote:
Then congress will just pass an amendment to the legislation to force Airlines to allow changes. This is a product of Airlines own greed. When they fee the public to death, government tends to listen to their constituents. I am all for reasonable fees, but Airlines (some of them) IMO have gone too far.


What is "too far"? People complain when airlines overbook, people complain when airlines charge change fee, people complain that seats are too tight, yet everybody wants cheap fares. Airlines can never win, can they?
 
Yossarian22
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:40 am

VS11 wrote:
American Airlines Considers Ending Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... imits-fees

"Doing away with changes to nonrefundable fares would make airline flights more like baseball games or concerts, where customers aren’t typically reimbursed if they buy tickets and can’t use them. Carriers currently consider the ability to change a nonrefundable ticket as a service that carries a cost. Such fees, which run up to $200, anger many passengers.

The language limiting what carriers can charge for ticket changes is being supported by consumer groups as a bipartisan provision. It is in a version of an aviation-policy bill sponsored by Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota, who is chairman of the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee. Parker called the proposal “really bad for consumers” last week."

I agree with Doug Parker. While some tickets are not worth the change fee, in many cases, especially flying internationally, paying $200 to change a ticket that cost $1,000 is well worth it. If you want flexibility without fees, get a refundable ticket.


Comparing airplane tickets to concert and sports tickets is so disingenuous. If I find out I can’t go to a concert or sporting event, I have the oppurtunity to sell my ticket. If I can’t catch my flight, I just lit a few hundred dollars on fire.

Let them charge all the fees they want, but there should be a passengers bill of rights that requires airlines to give passengers the same fees should they change their flights. Last winter, I paid $50 more for an AA flight that left at 8AM compared to a Southwest flight that left at 7. AA changed my flight time to 7:15, yet I did not receive a $200 change fee when AA had to change their plans. I don’t mind fees, but airlines should be held to the same standard that their passengers are held.
 
Bald1983
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:46 am

All this will do is cause the non-refundable ticket to be, well, non-refundable. If the government prohibits non-refundable tickets, the prices will rise, sharply. When the government stepped in to regulate the airline industry, up until the Carter Administration, air fares were much, much higher, in real dollar terms then they are now.
 
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:50 am

Unintended consequences...

Every law passed with a cost has unintended consequences.

Air travel is perishable. If you don't fly, the seat (could) go empty. Change fees keep people from gaming the system.

Meh... You get what you pay for. Airlines are historically a money losing proposition. If any one airline overcharges, the lose market share.

Fly DL, UA, AA, NK, B6, AS, HA, WN or G4 as you desire. If there is a vacuum in the market, someone will find the answer.

I still remember $1,400 fares for coach do we want inflation adjusted back to that? I flew first class for less than that with my paid for dog!

Do stuff like the dog where I happily paid a profit for my carry-on.

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Boof02671
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:54 am

Government needs to stay out of it.

They did pass the DEREGULATION Act of 1978.
 
gsg013
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:54 am

I'm not sure where I stand on this. Part of me says if you want a completely flexible ticket book a refundable or flexible ticket. Issue is I often find these fares are so high it makes them not worth it.

For example if I were to buy a ticket in J or F going JFK-LAX on AA October 12th Prices are $1,109 J | 1,249 F non refundable
If I want to buy the flexible ticket those fares go to $3213 J | $4448 F One way

For me at least with my travel schedule I am better off eating the refundable ticket or paying the change fee than being charged 3x or 4x what the flight would have cost me in the first place for a flexible ticket.

I think flexible tickets currently are priced the way Domestic F used to be in which case hardly anyone was paying for it because it was so much more. Now the airlines want to sell the seats upfront instead of giving them as upgrades so they charge a price that people can more easily afford.

I could see changes going away on non-refundable tix and refundable/flexible ticket prices coming down.
 
Varsity1
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:55 am

Business rarely wins when challenged by government.

Parker is arrogant.
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VS11
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:56 am

Yossarian22 wrote:
VS11 wrote:
American Airlines Considers Ending Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... imits-fees

"Doing away with changes to nonrefundable fares would make airline flights more like baseball games or concerts, where customers aren’t typically reimbursed if they buy tickets and can’t use them. Carriers currently consider the ability to change a nonrefundable ticket as a service that carries a cost. Such fees, which run up to $200, anger many passengers.

The language limiting what carriers can charge for ticket changes is being supported by consumer groups as a bipartisan provision. It is in a version of an aviation-policy bill sponsored by Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota, who is chairman of the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee. Parker called the proposal “really bad for consumers” last week."

I agree with Doug Parker. While some tickets are not worth the change fee, in many cases, especially flying internationally, paying $200 to change a ticket that cost $1,000 is well worth it. If you want flexibility without fees, get a refundable ticket.


Comparing airplane tickets to concert and sports tickets is so disingenuous. If I find out I can’t go to a concert or sporting event, I have the oppurtunity to sell my ticket. If I can’t catch my flight, I just lit a few hundred dollars on fire.

Let them charge all the fees they want, but there should be a passengers bill of rights that requires airlines to give passengers the same fees should they change their flights. Last winter, I paid $50 more for an AA flight that left at 8AM compared to a Southwest flight that left at 7. AA changed my flight time to 7:15, yet I did not receive a $200 change fee when AA had to change their plans. I don’t mind fees, but airlines should be held to the same standard that their passengers are held.


Some airlines do permit name change on a ticket...for a fee, of course :-) Well, it comes down to flights being perishable. A game/concert event sells thousands of tickets, most flights barely 200. I just think that air travel has become so commonplace that people forget the complexity and costs of running all the systems that make air travel safe and affordable.
 
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:07 am

phlswaflyer wrote:
Parker cares about Parker. Kirby cares about Kirby. They both come from the same school of " how much can we screw our customers and make ourselves rich..?" There is not and never has been a rationale for a ticket change fee and one as high as $200. Never. Ever. They will sell every seat because they are reducing flights and frequency so they do NOT lose a stinking cent. Southwest makes plenty of money, runs a MUCH better shop and people like to fly them.


How is a very clearly disclosed fee for a service "screwing the customers"? If you dont like the terms of the fare you are free to purchase a different fare that meets your needs. I tire of populist rants like this; the public has no right to cheap plane tickets with no restrictions.
 
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adambrau
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:07 am

Airlines are already highly regulated but I feel change fees have increased dramatically in the last 2-3 years. You can purchase non-refundable trans Atlantic business class fares with a $500 change fee (I've even seen $900), for $8000. That is about the worst I've seen, but it is my biggest beef with United. Guessing AA and DL are not much different? The legacy airlines fare structures are so complicated - it's hard to even figure out sometimes what they mean. I understand that a seat is a perishable item, but things have gotten out of hand. I get paying $25 for a bag, I get paying for a good seat, but trans Atlantic fee changes are outrageous. I don't think the Government ought to tell airlines what they can charge, as profitable airlines are preferable those teetering or in Chapter 11. Can see this being a popular vote winner!!

Perhaps the ULCC's will begin to self-regulate the market once they have a significant presence. On the other hand, it's nice to be able to call up United 24/7 and have someone there for you. I once needed to get in touch with Easyjet in Greece to make a change and any successful attempt to do so was elusive, to say the least!
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:12 am

VS11 wrote:
Some airlines do permit name change on a ticket...for a fee, of course :-) Well, it comes down to flights being perishable.


AS allows name changes for a fee, where you apply the value of the ticket toward a new ticket in the new name at today's fare, not the old one. This is to prevent speculatory bookings.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Yossarian22
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:23 am

VS11 wrote:
Yossarian22 wrote:
VS11 wrote:
American Airlines Considers Ending Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... imits-fees

"Doing away with changes to nonrefundable fares would make airline flights more like baseball games or concerts, where customers aren’t typically reimbursed if they buy tickets and can’t use them. Carriers currently consider the ability to change a nonrefundable ticket as a service that carries a cost. Such fees, which run up to $200, anger many passengers.

The language limiting what carriers can charge for ticket changes is being supported by consumer groups as a bipartisan provision. It is in a version of an aviation-policy bill sponsored by Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota, who is chairman of the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee. Parker called the proposal “really bad for consumers” last week."

I agree with Doug Parker. While some tickets are not worth the change fee, in many cases, especially flying internationally, paying $200 to change a ticket that cost $1,000 is well worth it. If you want flexibility without fees, get a refundable ticket.


Comparing airplane tickets to concert and sports tickets is so disingenuous. If I find out I can’t go to a concert or sporting event, I have the oppurtunity to sell my ticket. If I can’t catch my flight, I just lit a few hundred dollars on fire.

Let them charge all the fees they want, but there should be a passengers bill of rights that requires airlines to give passengers the same fees should they change their flights. Last winter, I paid $50 more for an AA flight that left at 8AM compared to a Southwest flight that left at 7. AA changed my flight time to 7:15, yet I did not receive a $200 change fee when AA had to change their plans. I don’t mind fees, but airlines should be held to the same standard that their passengers are held.


Some airlines do permit name change on a ticket...for a fee, of course :-) Well, it comes down to flights being perishable. A game/concert event sells thousands of tickets, most flights barely 200. I just think that air travel has become so commonplace that people forget the complexity and costs of running all the systems that make air travel safe and affordable.


I get that if I change my ticket on Southwest 72 hours before my flight, it messes with their inventory, and that changes aren’t free for the airlines. But, also I have chosen Southwest because my travel plans were up in the air and I wanted to lock in a cheap flight. I also have thrown away a couple of dirt cheap AirAsian tickets because my plans changed.

All I ask, is that if an airline is going to charge the passenger $200 to make a change. Should they need to change their schedule in advance (not a weather/mechanical/operations/act delay), they should be required to give the passenger whatever change fee they charge.

Why is this a one way street?
 
phxa340
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:24 am

deltal1011man wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
Then congress will just pass an amendment to the legislation to force Airlines to allow changes. This is a product of Airlines own greed. When they fee the public to death, government tends to listen to their constituents. I am all for reasonable fees, but Airlines (some of them) IMO have gone too far.

And people like you should be taxed more to cover those loses for the airlines.

but just people who want government control of airline fares, not those of us that want the government to butt out and enjoy the continued unbundling of fares.


By a non-refundable ticket and don't show or change (even for a fee) sucks for you. Welcome to being an adult.



Thanks :), I love being an adult ! Except opening an airline (ie more competition) isn’t like opening a cupcake shop. The barriers to entry are enormous for an airline. With all of the consolidation and less and less disrupters due to the barriers to entry, the legacies smelled blood and got greedy with fees. I know I am going to get roasted by airline employees but Airlines are taking advantage of an artificially created economic position they found themselves in. And I disagree that airfares would go up to cover the lack of fee income. There is only so much demand for certain price points before people stop taking vacations and businesses start doing more teleconferences IMO.
 
kiowa
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:30 am

phlswaflyer wrote:
Parker cares about Parker. Kirby cares about Kirby. They both come from the same school of " how much can we screw our customers and make ourselves rich..?" There is not and never has been a rationale for a ticket change fee and one as high as $200. Never. Ever. They will sell every seat because they are reducing flights and frequency so they do NOT lose a stinking cent. Southwest makes plenty of money, runs a MUCH better shop and people like to fly them.


And yet there are those of us who think Southwest is a far inferior airline and refuse to fly them.
 
Bald1983
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:33 am

phxa340 wrote:
Then congress will just pass an amendment to the legislation to force Airlines to allow changes. This is a product of Airlines own greed. When they fee the public to death, government tends to listen to their constituents. I am all for reasonable fees, but Airlines (some of them) IMO have gone too far.


You are not for reasonable fees. The market decides what is reasonable and what is not. If change fees are banned, then non-refundable fares will be truly non-refundable. If non-refundable fares are banned, fares over all will increase by astronomical amounts.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:38 am

I suppose leaving it as it is where the airlines are all profitable is out of the question...
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Bald1983
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:39 am

phlswaflyer wrote:
Parker cares about Parker. Kirby cares about Kirby. They both come from the same school of " how much can we screw our customers and make ourselves rich..?" There is not and never has been a rationale for a ticket change fee and one as high as $200. Never. Ever. They will sell every seat because they are reducing flights and frequency so they do NOT lose a stinking cent. Southwest makes plenty of money, runs a MUCH better shop and people like to fly them.


Two points:

1. Other airlines are comparing more favorably to Southwest. When SWA was smoking everyone, it was in large part due to the fact they wisely invested in fuel hedge contracts, lots of them, and had a major price advantage over the mainline carriers.

2. The WHOLE idea of a business is to make money, not give you things. No airline is a charity. If this becomes law, expect everyone to pay more for their tickets.
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:42 am

Change fees should be allowed but for only a percentage of the ticket. If you attempt to change within 90 days of the flight then a 15 percent fee of the cost of the ticket should apply. So on a $300 there would be $45 fee. Change within 60 days of the flight then 35 percent of the cost of the ticket should apply. 30 to 15 days out would be 75 percent. Anything after that is no refund. This would allow those who need to change a chance to do so without paying exorbitant fees and also allow the airlines to not have to eat the entire cost of the ticket if they can't fill the seat.
 
S0Y
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:45 am

The main problem is the unilateral nature of the contract of carriage. It is way biased in favor of the airlines.
If the airline and the passenger rights were more equal, then I do not think we would need to have this discussion
 
airzona11
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:47 am

This is the natural progression of government involvement. The airline industry is pretty regulated today and the government has allowed mergers to create natural monopolies in certain geographic locations and oligopoly pricing near everywhere. Parker is running an airline as a history of government bailouts (BK Laws - TWA, HP, US, L-AA, etc) so he is going to now be facing the unfavorable side. The airline industry is all gray area, murky waters when it comes to regulation.

Business can and will adapt, but the question asked a few times above remains, will the consumer win? What bills do we the taxpayers have to be liable for in the future?
 
Bald1983
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:52 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
I suppose leaving it as it is where the airlines are all profitable is out of the question...


To many, it will be. They want dirt cheap fares and then gripe when they do not get all the amenities.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:54 am

phlswaflyer wrote:
There is not and never has been a rationale for a ticket change fee and one as high as $200. Never. Ever.
Here ya go. Take a moment to educate yourself on the issue:
RushmoreAir wrote:
Change fees exist, not because they're a revenue source (although that is a nice bonus), but because they primarily serve as a disincentive for corporate/high willingness-to-pay customers to choose the lowest available fare class instead of buying up to a more flexible fare. Change fees work because they fence off the lower fares for early-booking leisure passengers who are OK with locking themselves into a time.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

And to add:
Only to a certain degree. The highest-yielding and/or most-frequent such customers are often immune to such fees and restrictions due to their status and credit card privileges.


phlswaflyer wrote:
Southwest makes plenty of money, runs a MUCH better shop and people like to fly them.

In SOME regards, and for SOME people.
Southwest is on the other hand worthless in other regards, for other travelers.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
deltal1011man
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:54 am

phxa340 wrote:
deltal1011man wrote:
phxa340 wrote:
Then congress will just pass an amendment to the legislation to force Airlines to allow changes. This is a product of Airlines own greed. When they fee the public to death, government tends to listen to their constituents. I am all for reasonable fees, but Airlines (some of them) IMO have gone too far.

And people like you should be taxed more to cover those loses for the airlines.

but just people who want government control of airline fares, not those of us that want the government to butt out and enjoy the continued unbundling of fares.


By a non-refundable ticket and don't show or change (even for a fee) sucks for you. Welcome to being an adult.



Thanks :), I love being an adult !

I slightly question how much of an adult someone is anytime they need the government to cover for their irresponsibility. Lets be real here, people who "need" the government to step in are people who simply don't read the fine print or think they are special and shouldn't have to pay because of how awesome they are.

but maybe I'm crazy for owning my actions.

phxa340 wrote:
Except opening an airline (ie more competition) isn’t like opening a cupcake shop. The barriers to entry are enormous for an airline. With all of the consolidation and less and less disrupters due to the barriers to entry, the legacies smelled blood and got greedy with fees. I know I am going to get roasted by airline employees but Airlines are taking advantage of an artificially created economic position they found themselves in. And I disagree that airfares would go up to cover the lack of fee income. There is only so much demand for certain price points before people stop taking vacations and businesses start doing more teleconferences IMO.

You mean the barriers that are majority created by the government you want to give more power too? :banghead: :banghead:

question, do you invest much? because even with all the "barriers and legacies smelling blood" they underperform when you compare airlines to most industries. If you think the airlines have it easy, don't look into big pharma, you'll want full on communism :lol: :lol:


and of course all of this is when we are on the high cycle of an incredible cyclical industry.

phxa340 wrote:
And I disagree that airfares would go up to cover the lack of fee income. There is only so much demand for certain price points before people stop taking vacations and businesses start doing more teleconferences IMO

and if that happens, the current airlines will be able to better match capacity with demand instead of flying empty planes at billions in losses so that we(the tax payer, the investor, the airline employee etc.) get to take it in the shorts for the 100th time.

Unless like I said before, you like paying for trillions in bailouts then, I'm all of it as long of those who think its a dumb idea can opt out and those who want to lose money can go right ahead.
 
32andBelow
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:57 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
So a non-refundable ticket should result in a non-used seat. You paid for it, so its yours, whether you are in it or not.

So are they gonna let us sell them if we can’t go now? Can we buy them 5 months out then sell them for 3x the day before thanksgiving?
 
VS11
Topic Author
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:00 am

Yossarian22 wrote:

Why is this a one way street?


It is not a one way street. Customers do have protections when travel is disrupted or canceled, and most airlines do try to accommodate pax in such cases. Flight times though are not guaranteed and form no part of the contract between you and the airline. Here is AA Conditions of Carriage. See the section on Responsibility on Schedules and Operations:

https://www.aa.com/intl/es/footer_en/co ... rriage.jsp
 
kiowa
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:03 am

Boof02671 wrote:
Government needs to stay out of it.

They did pass the DEREGULATION Act of 1978.



The government does need to stay out of it! They do it for headlines and trying to get reelected, not for the people they say they represent.
Last edited by kiowa on Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 220
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:05 am

Absolute rubbish from Parker... in other words, just another week at American

We can say SWA is different all we want, but the notion Parker suggests that "we won't be able to sell that seat now" is a bunch of nonsense. Southwest does it just fine. Oh, and how about that nice concept of "overbooking." Why does it exist in the first place? Because you aren't sure the person you sold the seat to is going to show up. And yet even without overselling or change fees - Southwest continues to do fine.

I've been vocal that Southwest has an inconsistent operation as much as the next guy - but that doesn't mean their business model doesn't work.

Agree with other posters - $200 is also insanity. JetBlue and Alaska are far more reasonable at $125 or less... Argue all you want its a deterrent for ticket changes but $200 is a pure profit play - nothing more

Would be interesting to see other airlines choose sides if this becomes reality - follow SWA, or follow Parker. Vastly different worlds...
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:10 am

Domestic $200 change fees for regular pax (no status/cc) is highway robbery...about time Congress does something about it.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
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FA9295
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:15 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Parker is arrogant.

:checkmark: End of discussion.
 
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FA9295
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:16 am

kiowa wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Government needs to stay out of it.

They did pass the DEREGULATION Act of 1978.



The government does need to stay out of it! They do it for headlines and trying to get reelected, not for the people they say they represent.

Oh boy, let's turn this thread into a political discussion, shall we...?
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1138
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:25 am

Personally - even more reason for me to switch my spend away from AA if they do this. Granted I've made very few changes over the years largely because of the penalty (Deaths in the family & last minute business reschedules are the only reasons) I completely support doing away with this fee.

Look - I'm not privileged to know the results of exhaustive analysis but I'd use the WAS-NYC-BOS corridor as an example - Amtrak is now the main operator here & they have a very flexible policy with regards to changing your train, I've paid additional fares dozens of times on the trains from WAS, WIL, PHL to NYC because of it and it seems like every time I'm on the Acela it's packed - combine that with the fact that round trip Acela tickets are often more expensive than flights between these airports & I really struggle to understand how the carriers think that they make more money by being less flexible... That along side WN who is a major competitor (also no change fees) to AA, it really doesn't make sense how they brand is not going to only compete for the rock bottom price customer.
1.4mm and counting...
 
klakzky123
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:26 am

I do agree that change fees are way too high for most airlines (and I'm ok with Congress creating a maximum fee amount) but to get rid of change fees breaks airline revenue management (for most airlines). Unless you're an LCC or a hybrid airline like Southwest that structures fare rules in a way that avoids creating huge incentives to purchase tickets at discounted fares and just freely changing as needed, I don't see how you can be ok with removing change fees.

A good example of this is airline mileage tickets. Generally when you hit a certain status you can freely exchange mileage bookings. The number of exchanges on those bookings is off the roof because everyone just continually looks for bargains and can freely exchange tickets. Tickets shouldn't function as bank accounts or vouchers to store money. Without change fees, I could take a trip that I know I want to take (lets say go to Europe) and just find a cheap fare on a random set of days and if I find out later I can't go, I can move it to the next crazy discounted fare that I come upon. That breaks the point of those low fares and ruins revenue management.
 
ltbewr
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:34 am

Change fees should be reasonable for both the customer and the airline if the customer has to make a change for a verifiable and sound reason like an. Illness, injury, personal emergency, weather events on may be affected by like a hurricane, flood, tornado, etc. Some airlines will recognize changes for such reasons for no or a low fee. Airlines should also recognize that on some flights, the cheap fare non-refundable ticket may be easily filled by a higher paying customer, so the fee should be low, not $200 for a $400 RT ticket, but more like $20-50 for such seats.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:39 am

This ought to be addressed through competition, rather than regulation, but competition in many markets is a thing of the past. Bad antitrust policy in previous decades made this bed and now we have to lie in it.
 
travaz
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 1:03 am

Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:47 am

In my opinion Non/refundable Non/Changeable should mean just that. If I am unsure of my plans or need to make one last arrangement and find a great fare AA allows you to book it and hold it for 24 hours. I see a great fare and I book it but put it on hold, I check the rest of my plans and either buy it or cancel it. I have to just shake my head every time I fly ( I purchase lowest price F because that is what I prefer) when the folks that bought Basic economy want to argue with the gate agent about taking 2 carry on bags onto the flight when it was clearly stated when you purchased the ticket you have NO overhead bin space. Make lower fare tickets Non/Non. You buy it you eat it. I am sorry your cat died and now you can't fly. WN is not the sainted angel everyone makes them out to be. They left me stranded in PHX because they cancelled a PHX MDW flight due to wx. Funny when 11 flights within 30 minutes of my scheduled departure left PHX to either ORD or MDW (including 3 WN flights). I was told the best they could do was Next Wednesday for a flight. (this was on a Saturday) I ended leaving PHX the same day and had to RON on my dime in BWI and fly to BDL the next day. And pay a 200.00 fare difference. I am one that wont fly WN. People need to be aware what it is they buy. Caveat emptor. I for one DO NOT need or want the Government "protecting" me. I am a big boy and can take care of my self.
 
Boof02671
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Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:00 am

FA9295 wrote:
kiowa wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Government needs to stay out of it.

They did pass the DEREGULATION Act of 1978.



The government does need to stay out of it! They do it for headlines and trying to get reelected, not for the people they say they represent.

Oh boy, let's turn this thread into a political discussion, shall we...?

If Congress is going to pass a law to regulate it, of course it’s political.

SMH
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2111
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:02 am

Boof02671 wrote:
FA9295 wrote:
kiowa wrote:


The government does need to stay out of it! They do it for headlines and trying to get reelected, not for the people they say they represent.

Oh boy, let's turn this thread into a political discussion, shall we...?

If Congress is going to pass a law to regulate it, of course it’s political.

SMH


It's bipartisan. The Airlines aren't going to be on the winning side.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
ridgid727
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:58 am

Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:43 am

Im sure congress has figured Parkers intention into this. I would imagine there will be a provision that non-refundable tickets can be transferred to another name and would not be useless, as the airline will re-sell the seat.
Last edited by ridgid727 on Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4204
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:44 am

There is no more rationale for supporting a $100 change fee over a $200 change fee. The fee is what the airlines think their market will support, period. Trying to justify one over the other is pointless.

deltal1011man wrote:
Lets be real here, people who "need" the government to step in are people who simply don't read the fine print or think they are special and shouldn't have to pay because of how awesome they are.

The pretense that a transaction is fair, balanced, and fully informed once one consumer without legal training has read non-negotiable fine prints written by an army of lawyers is simply asinine.
All Hail King Donald
 
USAirKid
Posts: 561
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: AA May End Ticket Changes If Congress Limits Fees - Bloomberg

Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:45 am

VS11 wrote:
Yossarian22 wrote:

Why is this a one way street?


It is not a one way street. Customers do have protections when travel is disrupted or canceled, and most airlines do try to accommodate pax in such cases. Flight times though are not guaranteed and form no part of the contract between you and the airline. Here is AA Conditions of Carriage. See the section on Responsibility on Schedules and Operations:

https://www.aa.com/intl/es/footer_en/co ... rriage.jsp


That is an old contract of carriage. (Among other things it doesn't list all the regional operators.) The current one is at https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-servic ... rriage.jsp

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