Spirit is bringing it's ULCC service to JAX.
http://ir.spirit.com/news-releases/news ... rint-ultra

Always exciting to see Spirit add a new station. They are pretty conservative with their adds and tend to stay for the long term. Congrats to JAX!

Will this spur DL to increase its service on JAX-DTW? This route has been down to 1 daily flight for a while. (And as a general question, does DL usually mount a competitive response to Spirit adds, or are these two airlines going after different enough customer segmentations that such responses are unnecessary?)

DL has already announced recently that JAX will be x2 daily. Starting in spring of 2019.

Delta will go mainline on JAX-DTW at some point, at least for one of the flights and AA and UA will probably vamp it up too. I have to say though, I think NK entering JAX is long overdue.

As the FL hometown airline strategy is being executed, this seems to make sense. They should add FLL-JAX-DTW and connect all of the destinations they serve there. Kind of like what they have done with MCO and ATL.

Awesome add and congrats to JAX! Spirit will continue to build their presence in Florida.

NK has served the same 5 Florida airports for over 20 years....it's about time !!

Ezra wrote:

Will this spur DL to increase its service on JAX-DTW? This route has been down to 1 daily flight for a while. (And as a general question, does DL usually mount a competitive response to Spirit adds, or are these two airlines going after different enough customer segmentations that such responses are unnecessary?)

It’s a mixed reaction. At DTW, DL generally does not add capacity and NK’s impact on placing downward pressure on fares is limited. For example, when NK added PHL, it acted as a catalyst for DL going all-mainline and lowering some fares. When NK added OAK, SEA and SAN, it had no impact on DL. Ironically, DTW garbers the largest premium amongst any hub carrier and respective ULCC in the market.

I liken JAX to MSY: both routes DL limited capacity and squeezed high fares from; prior to NK’s arrival at MSY, DL was operating 2xCR9 (or similar) but after NK’s arrival, the route went back to 3x mainline. At the very least, I’d expect JAX to go 1x mainline, instead of the crappy CR7 DL insists on. Whether NK can draw enough traffic to keep the route going is another story...

compensateme wrote:

Ezra wrote:

Will this spur DL to increase its service on JAX-DTW? This route has been down to 1 daily flight for a while. (And as a general question, does DL usually mount a competitive response to Spirit adds, or are these two airlines going after different enough customer segmentations that such responses are unnecessary?)

It’s a mixed reaction. At DTW, DL generally does not add capacity and NK’s impact on placing downward pressure on fares is limited. For example, when NK added PHL, it acted as a catalyst for DL going all-mainline and lowering some fares. When NK added OAK, SEA and SAN, it had no impact on DL. Ironically, DTW garbers the largest premium amongst any hub carrier and respective ULCC in the market.

I liken JAX to MSY: both routes DL limited capacity and squeezed high fares from; prior to NK’s arrival at MSY, DL was operating 2xCR9 (or similar) but after NK’s arrival, the route went back to 3x mainline. At the very least, I’d expect JAX to go 1x mainline, instead of the crappy CR7 DL insists on. Whether NK can draw enough traffic to keep the route going is another story...

DL's policy of basically ignoring ULCC has really allowed NK to thrive at DTW. It's quite apparent that they are not doing as well at DFW/IAH where they got really aggressively price matched by Scott Kirby.

Just by NK's entrance and DL adding a little more capacity, it will lower DL's yield on those routes. Otherwise, DL will keep capacity to a minimal to get the highest possible yields. My guess is that NK will probably be fine until DL really ramps up pressure.

Now it's time for Florida's hometown airline to add VPS and SRQ to DTW

I wouldn't rule out SRQ being the next Florida station that NK opens, followed by VPS or PNS. The ORD-JAX flight is a home run. There's enough room for NK in the DTW-JAX market. If anything, this will hurt the DTW-ATL-JAX segment on DL which is generally cheaper than the actual nonstop.

727LOVER wrote:

NK has served the same 5 Florida airports for over 20 years....it's about time !!

They also served MLB in the 2000s.

Looks like ORD-JAX is going to get a little crowded with AA/UA/F9 already on the route and now NK. Plus, WN doing MDW-JAX.

I hope NK got the NW cadre attention, and they really start utilizing a more creative schedule for JAXDTW AND JAXMSP running everything thru ATL is not as efficient as a variety of AFTERNOON departures to DTW &/or MSP could provide WEST COAST CONNECTIONS.

tphuang wrote:

DL's policy of basically ignoring ULCC...

Yeh, that's why they introduced basic economy fares back in 2012, years before AA, UA and AS! It was all to ignore ULCCs.

ATA767 wrote:

As the FL hometown airline strategy is being executed, this seems to make sense. They should add FLL-JAX-DTW and connect all of the destinations they serve there. Kind of like what they have done with MCO and ATL.

I was thinking the same thing. DL offers tons of ATL-JAX that is full of connections. NK could do the same with JAX-FLL lots of connections and some O & D as its a 6-7 hour drive depending exactly where you are going in South Florida.

From EWR UA is double daily mainline (A319/B73G/A320) during the winter season with up to three more RJ flights. During the summer it is usually 5 RJ flights (the majority being E145s while there is also one E170/175 per day)

MIflyer12 wrote:

tphuang wrote:

DL's policy of basically ignoring ULCC...

Yeh, that's why they introduced basic economy fares back in 2012, years before AA, UA and AS! It was all to ignore ULCCs.

Basic Economy transitioned into a de facto price increase, with little - at best - correlation to ULCC. He’s correct — the impact of ULCC at DTW is minimal and limited to specific flights on specific routes. Comparing average NK fares to DL at DTW, and NK to AA at DFW, supports this...

Thanks for the info, everyone!

Does anyone recall the max frequency on JAX-DTW back in the NW days? Did they ever fly the route more than three/day?

More good news for JAX! Getting NK should more than compensate for the recent loss of all 3M services.

Ezra wrote:

Thanks for the info, everyone!

Does anyone recall the max frequency on JAX-DTW back in the NW days? Did they ever fly the route more than three/day?

No it was 3 daily with a DC-9-30

xdlx wrote:

I hope NK got the NW cadre attention, and they really start utilizing a more creative schedule for JAXDTW AND JAXMSP running everything thru ATL is not as efficient as a variety of AFTERNOON departures to DTW &/or MSP could provide WEST COAST CONNECTIONS.

Yes indeed I love seeing a.neter posts from people who get. Give this man a star.

I miss the way NW answered hub encroachment with capacity and frequency changes!

N501US wrote:

I miss the way NW answered hub encroachment with capacity and frequency changes!

Which led to extraordinarily high fares for MSP and less competition, until following the merger. Since 2008, WN, NK, B6, and additions of F9 routes, a larger SY presence, etc. at MSP.

xdlx wrote:

I hope NK got the NW cadre attention, and they really start utilizing a more creative schedule for JAXDTW AND JAXMSP running everything thru ATL is not as efficient as a variety of AFTERNOON departures to DTW &/or MSP could provide WEST COAST CONNECTIONS.

I could maybe see that being effective for SEA (289 more miles over DTW compared to ATL) or PDX (325 more miles over DTW compared to ATL) but surely not SFO (484 more miles over DTW compared to ATL) or LAX (577 more miles over DTW compared to ATL)? We're talking 20% increased flight distances for those latter two and only a daily RJ on JAXDTW (757 on JAXMSP).

Is the Jacksonville area a sunbird destination or is it too far north (in Florida)?If so

Is the Jacksonville area a snowbird destination or is it too far north (in Florida)?

Their 69th destination? Should be a great marketing tool for them

KLMatSJC wrote:

Their 69th destination? Should be a great marketing tool for them

They no longer do those marketing jokes.

Anyone else noticed they are not referring to themselves as ULCC anymore in recent press releases???

Something big must be comming...

I can see a Norwegian LCC style with better service comming up in their near future.

Good to see a new airline in JAX. However I don't see what either destination really adds. Both are well served as it is.

santi319 wrote:

KLMatSJC wrote:

Their 69th destination? Should be a great marketing tool for them

They no longer do those marketing jokes.

Anyone else noticed they are not referring to themselves as ULCC anymore in recent press releases???

Something big must be comming...

I can see a Norwegian LCC with better service comming up in their new future.

B6 merger

I would not guess B6, more like F9

ATA767 wrote:

I would not guess B6, more like F9

I would say out of the 3 B6 is probably the one that needs it the most....

ATA767 wrote:

I would not guess B6, more like F9

How old is that rumor? (F9) At least 5 years old? If it hasn’t happened by now.....

ATA767 wrote:

I would not guess B6, more like F9

That has long been the common rumor. I was somewhat joking, but with NK going more premium and acting more like a network carrier and B6 adding more fees, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to find a happy medium between ULCC and legacy. NK would certainly add substantial mid-continent presence that B6 lacks at the moment.

gravytrain wrote:

Good to see a new airline in JAX. However I don't see what either destination really adds. Both are well served as it is.

It gives price sensitive customers a choice now that they didn't have at least in the Detroit market.

Spirit announced JAX-BWI and JAX-FLL today, flights start 2/14/2019.

JAXDan wrote:

Spirit announced JAX-BWI and JAX-FLL today, flights start 2/14/2019.

So much for the rumored “downsizing” of FLL that loads of A-netters claimed....