FSDan
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:28 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS


It's currently loaded on a domestic 757, just as was predicted.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
777Mech
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:37 pm

FSDan wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS


It's currently loaded on a domestic 757, just as was predicted.


I'm glad my folks didn't give me bad info on the route!
 
bagoldex
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:50 pm

Interesting choice. I think Frankfurt would be a good route and it'd give them coverage in another major business market. Obviously they'd need an international 757 with a real business class but offering a year-round late evening departure(10pm) to Frankfurt would seem like a logical add in light of Lufthansa's rather early departure.
 
alfa164
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:23 pm

FSDan wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS

It's currently loaded on a domestic 757, just as was predicted.


Do you know the start/stop dates? There is a considerable Portuguese diaspora in the Boston area; SATA has been very successful there. DL seems to have done well to LIS from JFK and ATL - and to the Azores from JFK - but, I must admit, I would have expected a different destination (maybe DUB) before another Lisbon flight.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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NickolayAv
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:29 pm

alfa164 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS

It's currently loaded on a domestic 757, just as was predicted.


Do you know the start/stop dates? There is a considerable Portuguese diaspora in the Boston area; SATA has been very successful there. DL seems to have done well to LIS from JFK and ATL - and to the Azores from JFK - but, I must admit, I would have expected a different destination (maybe DUB) before another Lisbon flight.

DL flies to DUB from BOS already
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
tjerome
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:23 am

alfa164 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS

It's currently loaded on a domestic 757, just as was predicted.


Do you know the start/stop dates? There is a considerable Portuguese diaspora in the Boston area; SATA has been very successful there. DL seems to have done well to LIS from JFK and ATL - and to the Azores from JFK - but, I must admit, I would have expected a different destination (maybe DUB) before another Lisbon flight.


Starts May 23rd eastbound and May 24th westbound.

To answer how Terminal A gate space for 757s and bigger:
A3 accommodates 757 with no restriction
A6 accommodates 757 or 767 on alternate line with A5 closed
A8 accommodates 757 or 767 on alternate line with A7 closed
A13-A17 all accommodate a 757 on the regular line with no restriction
A13 accommodates 767 with no restriction (although it is tight to then put a 757 on A14 but doable)
A14 accommodates on the alternate line from a 767 up to A350 with A15 closed
A16 accommodates 767 on the alternate line with A15 closed, or a 330 with A15 closed and A17 limited to a 717

A19 apparently can take a 767 with no restriction.
 
Minicoop764
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:20 am

Is anyone else noticing that you can no longer book an ATL-LIS nonstop? Did this take the place of the ATL flight?
 
N766UA
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:27 pm

TransWorldOne wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Rumor is over. Flight is on sale. No official announcement from Delta yet.
Boeing 757-200 Seasonal
DL124 BOS 21:45—09:15 LIS
DL125 LIS 10:45—13:15 BOS


I was just going to post on here that DL is hiring Portuguese speaking flight attendants, possibly indicating that the rumor may be true. Glad we can stop speculating now.


They also fly to Brazil...?
 
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chrisnh
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:05 pm

I know it’s been discussed to death ever since DL opened their A terminal at BOS. But is the whole customs/immigration setup there a dead issue? It seems to me that with the situation at E poised to get a lot worse before it gets better, Massport would be eager to help their own cause by allowing DL to do this. Or is it something that not even Massport can enable?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:13 pm

Minicoop764 wrote:
Is anyone else noticing that you can no longer book an ATL-LIS nonstop? Did this take the place of the ATL flight?


ATL-LIS was announced as seasonal. Maybe they just haven't loaded it for next summer. It's worth watching.
 
BDL757
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:53 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Minicoop764 wrote:
Is anyone else noticing that you can no longer book an ATL-LIS nonstop? Did this take the place of the ATL flight?


ATL-LIS was announced as seasonal. Maybe they just haven't loaded it for next summer. It's worth watching.


ATL-LIS starts 23MAY (flight 122).
 
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VS4ever
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:32 pm

chrisnh wrote:
I know it’s been discussed to death ever since DL opened their A terminal at BOS. But is the whole customs/immigration setup there a dead issue? It seems to me that with the situation at E poised to get a lot worse before it gets better, Massport would be eager to help their own cause by allowing DL to do this. Or is it something that not even Massport can enable?


Per my post in the BOS thread. DL utilize E when it is quieter with most landing in the 12-1 timeframe

I think we agree potentially having a CBP post in A does make a modicum of sense, but there is nothing on the capital projects list and we know staffing would be an issue
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
klm617
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:41 pm

BDL757 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Minicoop764 wrote:
Is anyone else noticing that you can no longer book an ATL-LIS nonstop? Did this take the place of the ATL flight?


ATL-LIS was announced as seasonal. Maybe they just haven't loaded it for next summer. It's worth watching.


ATL-LIS starts 23MAY (flight 122).



I don't see it listed I see now flight 124 operating ATL-BOS-LIS but no ATL-LIS nonstop
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
jbs2886
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:12 pm

klm617 wrote:
BDL757 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

ATL-LIS was announced as seasonal. Maybe they just haven't loaded it for next summer. It's worth watching.


ATL-LIS starts 23MAY (flight 122).



I don't see it listed I see now flight 124 operating ATL-BOS-LIS but no ATL-LIS nonstop


122/123 are still loaded non-stop for ATL-LIS.
 
klm617
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:18 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
BDL757 wrote:

ATL-LIS starts 23MAY (flight 122).



I don't see it listed I see now flight 124 operating ATL-BOS-LIS but no ATL-LIS nonstop


122/123 are still loaded non-stop for ATL-LIS.


Can you provide a link because I just looked at Delta.com for July and it's not showing up
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
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Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:19 pm

Minicoop764 wrote:
Is anyone else noticing that you can no longer book an ATL-LIS nonstop? Did this take the place of the ATL flight?


Yes I looked in a couple different places and it's not showing up for me either.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
jbs2886
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:30 pm

klm617 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
klm617 wrote:


I don't see it listed I see now flight 124 operating ATL-BOS-LIS but no ATL-LIS nonstop


122/123 are still loaded non-stop for ATL-LIS.


Can you provide a link because I just looked at Delta.com for July and it's not showing up


I spot checked dates in May, June and July on the app in Flight Schedules.

Also if it were true ATL was dropped this would go against your theory (that is wholly incorrect anyways) that DL wants to route everything through ATL.
 
jrkmsp
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:47 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
BDL757 wrote:

ATL-LIS starts 23MAY (flight 122).



I don't see it listed I see now flight 124 operating ATL-BOS-LIS but no ATL-LIS nonstop


122/123 are still loaded non-stop for ATL-LIS.


Doesn’t appear bookable. Just BOS and JFK.
 
airbazar
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:02 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
I spot checked dates in May, June and July on the app in Flight Schedules.

Also if it were true ATL was dropped this would go against your theory (that is wholly incorrect anyways) that DL wants to route everything through ATL.


A few points to take note:
1 - LIS has no peak time slots. It makes sense that DL is shifting the route rather than add a new one.
2 - BOS has a large O&D market.
3 - DL is making BOS a hub and will grow it. USA -> LIS require practically no backtracking regardless of where you start your journey. ATL is not a good connection point for this route.
 
tphuang
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:44 pm

airbazar wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
I spot checked dates in May, June and July on the app in Flight Schedules.

Also if it were true ATL was dropped this would go against your theory (that is wholly incorrect anyways) that DL wants to route everything through ATL.


A few points to take note:
1 - LIS has no peak time slots. It makes sense that DL is shifting the route rather than add a new one.
2 - BOS has a large O&D market.
3 - DL is making BOS a hub and will grow it. USA -> LIS require practically no backtracking regardless of where you start your journey. ATL is not a good connection point for this route.

for 3), all the places that require backtracking to ATL could also have connected at JFK. And at ATL, they have so many flights with most airports in America that they won't to wait long for connection.

If they are dropping ATL-LIS for BOS-LIS, then they are loosing a lot of connections at ATL. Think about how the cities in Latin America and Florida where ATL is a perfect connection point for LIS and have no DL service to JFK/BOS. Think about Northern and Central part of Brazil that would otherwise have to backtrack to Rio/Sao Paolo to get to Lisbon. They are loosing all of that. Think about all the cities in the middle of the America with no DL service to JFK/BOS like IAH, STL, OKC, MEM and others that they are going to loose 1-stop service on.

TP required a lot of connection to make this work. Which calls into question your point 2) about BOS-LIS being a large O&D market.
 
MKIAZ
Posts: 244
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:00 pm

TW870 wrote:
I think the U.S. airline industry is mature to the point that the carriers aren't "putting the screws to" each other like they were right after deregulation. I think that DL sees a major opportunity for a network carrier operation in BOS and SEA.


The writing has been on the wall since AA/US was approved. With only 3 majors, it all comes down to what hubs you control. Not counting LA/NY, ATL/SLC/DTW/MSP is a pretty weak portfolio for DL. BOS/SEA happen to be two of the only large cities where the only other large player is a non-major airline.

As much as DL may want to build up a hub in say SFO, they know if they start trying to build it up, UA will start trying to build up ATL. No such concerns with AS/B6 (although AS did briefly try to add some SLC flying)
 
iyerhari
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:26 pm

MKIAZ wrote:
The writing has been on the wall since AA/US was approved. With only 3 majors, it all comes down to what hubs you control. Not counting LA/NY, ATL/SLC/DTW/MSP is a pretty weak portfolio for DL. BOS/SEA happen to be two of the only large cities where the only other large player is a non-major airline.

As much as DL may want to build up a hub in say SFO, they know if they start trying to build it up, UA will start trying to build up ATL. No such concerns with AS/B6 (although AS did briefly try to add some SLC flying)


I would like to state this in a different way. DL has a solid advantage to not having to deal with any competitive hubs in the vicinity which the other two US2 carriers have to deal with in a majority of their fortress hubs (exception CLT for AA). ATL, DTW, MSP, SLC - some of these hubs maybe smaller cities/MSAs compared to SFO, ORD, DFW, IAH, DCA etc. but they have a near monopoly in their fortress hubs. This gives them an advantage to play around and focus their attention in highly competitive markets (NYC, LAX) and also develop new market opportunities (BOS, SEA, RDU, AUS etc.)

There is however a significant difference between BOS and SEA - AS owns over 60+% of market share in BOS and have been there in that market for a longtime. In retrospect, B6 probably owns not more than 30-32% of the market and AA is not keen to develop that market beyond the hubs and partner airlines. B6 is also not close to starting TATL flights although there are threads that keep coming every now and then. The BOS market is huge and a wealthy market - both from strong business and leisure market. DL sees a huge advantage here although they will not be bigger than B6 in BOS because B6 will have more gates than DL.

But maybe that does not make any difference to DL - almost within 2 years since DL announced plans to expand BOS, the two things have happened:

1. Sky is becoming a new leader in terms of alliance - I believe ONE still maybe a leader but looking at the way things are going, it maybe a matter of time this may change.
2. Per Massport, they are now #2 in the market share. Once, they get the whole of A sometime May-2019, it is certain we will see more regional connections to Logan to funnel TATL destinations. They need not be large as ATL but they can claim a good market in the huge Boston market.
 
bnatraveler
Posts: 363
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Re: DL launches BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:30 pm

All three routes are loaded:

S28JUNATLLIS./D«                                                
 28JUN  FRI   ATL/EDT     LIS/‡5                               
1DL  122 J  C  D  I  Z  W  Y *ATLLIS 1839 0755‡1 76W D 0 DC /E 
         B  M  H  Q  K  L  U                                   
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX                                           
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER S*C.                           
S*DBOS«                                                         
 28JUN  FRI   BOS/EDT     LIS/‡5                               
1TP  218 C  D  Z  J  Y *BOSLIS 1820 0545‡1 332 BD 0 256 DC /E   
         B  M  H  Q  V  W  S  K  A                             
2DL  124 P  A  G  W  Y *BOSLIS 2145 0915‡1 757 D 0 DC /E       
         B  M  H  Q  K  L  U  T  X                             
3S4  220 C  D  I  J  Y *BOSLIS 2120 1040‡1 321 DB 1 X47 AB /E   
         B  M  K  W  P  S  L  Q  H                             
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX                                           
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER S*C.                           
S*DJFK«                                                         
 28JUN  FRI   JFK/EDT     LIS/‡5                               
1DL  272 J  C  D  I  Z  W *JFKLIS 2159 1015‡1 75W D 0 DC /E     
         Y  B  M  H  Q  K  L  U                                 
2TP  208 C  D  Z  J  Y  B *JFKLIS 2325 1115‡1 332 BD 0 5 DC /E 
         M  H  Q  V  W  S  K  A                                 
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX                                           
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER S*C.                           
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:35 pm

TW870 wrote:
I think the U.S. airline industry is mature to the point that the carriers aren't "putting the screws to" each other like they were right after deregulation. I think that DL sees a major opportunity for a network carrier operation in BOS and SEA. They can sell their international network, and then use that network to leverage corporate accounts for premium North America traffic. AS and B6 just cannot match that portfolio. But with that said, I think AS and B6 will continue to do very well in SEA and BOS respectively, and that Delta knows that. People on a.net freaked out for the first few years of the DL expansion in SEA, and now things have calmed down on a.net. I think it will be the same with BOS.


Delta may not "put the screws" to AA or UA, but they are "putting the screws" to B6.
Alaska still has the dominant position at SEA because they saw the writing on the wall and attempted to pre-empt DL at SEA by increasing feed to their international partners and adding new destinations.
In contrast, JetBlue has been "twiddling their thumbs" at BOS and let DL swoop in and take market share. They let DL expand, and add international destinations out of BOS while B6 is still thinking about that! :banghead:
 
FSDan
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
If they are dropping ATL-LIS for BOS-LIS, then they are loosing a lot of connections at ATL. Think about how the cities in Latin America and Florida where ATL is a perfect connection point for LIS and have no DL service to JFK/BOS. Think about Northern and Central part of Brazil that would otherwise have to backtrack to Rio/Sao Paolo to get to Lisbon. They are loosing all of that. Think about all the cities in the middle of the America with no DL service to JFK/BOS like IAH, STL, OKC, MEM and others that they are going to loose 1-stop service on.

TP required a lot of connection to make this work. Which calls into question your point 2) about BOS-LIS being a large O&D market.


DL's planners know exactly which markets were providing the main connecting flows for ATL-LIS. I'm guessing it wasn't a whole lot of IAH, STL, OKC, and MEM.... I'd guess DL's largest connecting markets to LIS are along the lines of SFO, LAX, MIA, and MCO, all of which DL can probably connect over BOS if they need to.

Honestly, part of moving this route to BOS might also be just to free up a 763 for another route. DL has almost no spare widebody capacity for growth right now, so moving ATL-LIS to a route that can be served by a domestic 757 (which DL has no shortage of) allows them to add widebody capacity elsewhere (e.g. the recent PDX-LHR and DTW-LHR increases or the new DTW-HNL). Factor in that the domestic 757 is probably better suited to the traffic mix in the market than the 226-seat 763, and this move seems like a win for DL
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
airbazar
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:43 pm

tphuang wrote:
airbazar wrote:
3 - DL is making BOS a hub and will grow it. USA -> LIS require practically no backtracking regardless of where you start your journey. ATL is not a good connection point for this route.

for 3), all the places that require backtracking to ATL could also have connected at JFK. And at ATL, they have so many flights with most airports in America that they won't to wait long for connection.

If they are dropping ATL-LIS for BOS-LIS, then they are loosing a lot of connections at ATL. Think about how the cities in Latin America and Florida where ATL is a perfect connection point for LIS and have no DL service to JFK/BOS. Think about Northern and Central part of Brazil that would otherwise have to backtrack to Rio/Sao Paolo to get to Lisbon. They are loosing all of that. Think about all the cities in the middle of the America with no DL service to JFK/BOS like IAH, STL, OKC, MEM and others that they are going to loose 1-stop service on.

TP required a lot of connection to make this work. Which calls into question your point 2) about BOS-LIS being a large O&D market.


TP requires connections just like any other network carrier requires connections. It doesn't mean the O&D isn't big enough. There's no reason to question it. The numbers are public for everyone to see. It is however a very seasonal O&D market. The fact that DL is switching the flight from its fortress hub of ATL to BOS should tell you everything you need to know about the market. And the Latin America - LIS market is minuscule. The only relevant LatAm market there is to Portugal is in Brazil an no one is going to connect in ATL to fly between Brazil and Portugal. And if they do, I guarantee you DL isn't making any money on them.
 
LH422
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Re: DL launches BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:49 pm

A relative just booked a flight Germany-Boston through LIS since the fares were so cheap next. Not sure why that was the case.
 
Ezra
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:52 pm

FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
DL has almost no spare widebody capacity for growth right now, so moving ATL-LIS to a route that can be served by a domestic 757 (which DL has no shortage of) allows them to add widebody capacity elsewhere


This is an interesting hypothesis. What other intl cities are within range of Boston and suitable for a domestic 757? Could we see Delta add more services like this?
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:23 pm

airbazar wrote:
The only relevant LatAm market there is to Portugal is in Brazil an no one is going to connect in ATL to fly between Brazil and Portugal. And if they do, I guarantee you DL isn't making any money on them.


Is FNC-CCS still served? That was always an odd one but it has to have some VFR component to it.

Ezra wrote:
FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
DL has almost no spare widebody capacity for growth right now, so moving ATL-LIS to a route that can be served by a domestic 757 (which DL has no shortage of) allows them to add widebody capacity elsewhere


This is an interesting hypothesis. What other intl cities are within range of Boston and suitable for a domestic 757? Could we see Delta add more services like this?


PDL, EDI/GLA, SNN, ORK - not sure about the runway length needed for 757 there.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
Victorville
Posts: 36
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:31 pm

Ezra wrote:
FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
DL has almost no spare widebody capacity for growth right now, so moving ATL-LIS to a route that can be served by a domestic 757 (which DL has no shortage of) allows them to add widebody capacity elsewhere


This is an interesting hypothesis. What other intl cities are within range of Boston and suitable for a domestic 757? Could we see Delta add more services like this?


I also think there's a possibility for this. Let traffic that requires a lie-flat fly over JFK, and have lower-yielding traffic over BOS on domestic 757s.
The potential markets would be low-yielding ones that are flown from JFK and another gateway. FCO and VCE would seem like prime targets, but are outside the range of the 757. The only other destination I see that could work with this strategy would be BCN, and downsize ATL-BCN. MAD too maybe.
Last edited by Victorville on Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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NickolayAv
Posts: 422
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:31 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
TW870 wrote:
I think the U.S. airline industry is mature to the point that the carriers aren't "putting the screws to" each other like they were right after deregulation. I think that DL sees a major opportunity for a network carrier operation in BOS and SEA. They can sell their international network, and then use that network to leverage corporate accounts for premium North America traffic. AS and B6 just cannot match that portfolio. But with that said, I think AS and B6 will continue to do very well in SEA and BOS respectively, and that Delta knows that. People on a.net freaked out for the first few years of the DL expansion in SEA, and now things have calmed down on a.net. I think it will be the same with BOS.


Delta may not "put the screws" to AA or UA, but they are "putting the screws" to B6.
Alaska still has the dominant position at SEA because they saw the writing on the wall and attempted to pre-empt DL at SEA by increasing feed to their international partners and adding new destinations.
In contrast, JetBlue has been "twiddling their thumbs" at BOS and let DL swoop in and take market share. They let DL expand, and add international destinations out of BOS while B6 is still thinking about that! :banghead:

I would respectfully disagree. I think JetBlue is doing quite the opposite, in the last .5-1 year B6 has added HAV, MEX, HDN, PSP as well as adding frequencies to various markets. I think ultimately we are going to see a very similar thing as we saw in SEA. DL will greatly expand in BOS, but will probably stay as the #2 in market share. DL just isn't adding the frequencies to push out B6 out of most markets, I do however think we will see many more people connecting in BOS. Just look at the added DL Sarasota flight as an example. B6 is running daily A320 for a large part of the year, while DL will fly an E175 once weekly for 1.5 months.
"If you want to be a millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline"-Richard Branson
 
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pitbosflyer
Posts: 347
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:32 pm

Ezra wrote:
FSDan wrote:
tphuang wrote:
DL has almost no spare widebody capacity for growth right now, so moving ATL-LIS to a route that can be served by a domestic 757 (which DL has no shortage of) allows them to add widebody capacity elsewhere


This is an interesting hypothesis. What other intl cities are within range of Boston and suitable for a domestic 757? Could we see Delta add more services like this?


I would say this is exactly what alot of the international expansion in BOS will look like for DL. Adding 757s to places like LIS (future maybe OSL, SNN, MAD). I think it will further ramp up once they have other narrow bodies that can fill the role like Airbus A321neos. Building out the (rumor future BOS hub) with smaller TATL routes gives them more space to play with at JFK. Also it can help support a continued build up of regional flying in Bos to further grow their position there.
 
jrkmsp
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 1:33 am

Re: DL launches BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:01 pm

bnatraveler wrote:
All three routes are loaded:

S28JUNATLLIS./D«                                                
 28JUN  FRI   ATL/EDT     LIS/‡5                               
1DL  122 J  C  D  I  Z  W  Y *ATLLIS 1839 0755‡1 76W D 0 DC /E 
         B  M  H  Q  K  L  U                                   
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX                                           
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER S*C.                           
S*DBOS«                                                         
 28JUN  FRI   BOS/EDT     LIS/‡5                               
1TP  218 C  D  Z  J  Y *BOSLIS 1820 0545‡1 332 BD 0 256 DC /E   
         B  M  H  Q  V  W  S  K  A                             
2DL  124 P  A  G  W  Y *BOSLIS 2145 0915‡1 757 D 0 DC /E       
         B  M  H  Q  K  L  U  T  X                             
3S4  220 C  D  I  J  Y *BOSLIS 2120 1040‡1 321 DB 1 X47 AB /E   
         B  M  K  W  P  S  L  Q  H                             
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX                                           
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER S*C.                           
S*DJFK«                                                         
 28JUN  FRI   JFK/EDT     LIS/‡5                               
1DL  272 J  C  D  I  Z  W *JFKLIS 2159 1015‡1 75W D 0 DC /E     
         Y  B  M  H  Q  K  L  U                                 
2TP  208 C  D  Z  J  Y  B *JFKLIS 2325 1115‡1 332 BD 0 5 DC /E 
         M  H  Q  V  W  S  K  A                                 
NO MORE - S* FOR CONX                                           
* - FOR ADDITIONAL CLASSES ENTER S*C.                           



Delta announced today that ATL-LIS is indeed ending in favor of BOS-LIS.

Details: https://news.delta.com/delta-boston-s-n ... ummer-2019
 
tphuang
Posts: 3001
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:02 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
TW870 wrote:
I think the U.S. airline industry is mature to the point that the carriers aren't "putting the screws to" each other like they were right after deregulation. I think that DL sees a major opportunity for a network carrier operation in BOS and SEA. They can sell their international network, and then use that network to leverage corporate accounts for premium North America traffic. AS and B6 just cannot match that portfolio. But with that said, I think AS and B6 will continue to do very well in SEA and BOS respectively, and that Delta knows that. People on a.net freaked out for the first few years of the DL expansion in SEA, and now things have calmed down on a.net. I think it will be the same with BOS.


Delta may not "put the screws" to AA or UA, but they are "putting the screws" to B6.
Alaska still has the dominant position at SEA because they saw the writing on the wall and attempted to pre-empt DL at SEA by increasing feed to their international partners and adding new destinations.
In contrast, JetBlue has been "twiddling their thumbs" at BOS and let DL swoop in and take market share. They let DL expand, and add international destinations out of BOS while B6 is still thinking about that! :banghead:


To the concept of DL "putting the screws" on B6, they've been trying to do that in JFK for years and haven't gone anywhere with it.

B6 cannot prevent DL from expanding at BOS. It's only got 31% of market share at the moment and DL has plenty of gate space. In reality, B6's market share has gone up since DL started their expansion. Frankly, BOS is becoming a huge bloodbath, especially in the transcon market. And that's due to DL's growth and B6 moves to counteract. On top of that, AA and UA are both very strong in domestic markets out of BOS and have very strong network alliances that will always keep them relevance.

LH422 wrote:
A relative just booked a flight Germany-Boston through LIS since the fares were so cheap next. Not sure why that was the case.

Yes, this is a route heavily dependent on connections to survive.

pitbosflyer wrote:
I would say this is exactly what alot of the international expansion in BOS will look like for DL. Adding 757s to places like LIS (future maybe OSL, SNN, MAD). I think it will further ramp up once they have other narrow bodies that can fill the role like Airbus A321neos. Building out the (rumor future BOS hub) with smaller TATL routes gives them more space to play with at JFK. Also it can help support a continued build up of regional flying in Bos to further grow their position there.


so you think DL's effort to become the carrier of choice for corporation in Boston is by launching a bunch of summer seasonal flight to leisure destinations chasing after customers paying $500 R/T TATL fare?

That's going to make B6 very happy.
 
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pitbosflyer
Posts: 347
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Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:06 pm

tphuang wrote:

so you think DL's effort to become the carrier of choice for corporation in Boston is by launching a bunch of summer seasonal flight to leisure destinations chasing after customers paying $500 R/T TATL fare?

That's going to make B6 very happy.


I see what you're saying. But don't forget all those DL FF book lots of family vacations. Currently they are probably flying B6 to the Caribbean and would likely do the same once its available for TATL. There is value to DL getting there first.
 
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compensateme
Posts: 3279
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Re: DL launches BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:57 pm

Geeze, a.net manufactures a lot of drama. Let’s be realistic: DL didn’t end D1 service
From ATL and replace it with a domestic 757 from BOS to ‘make a preemptive strike at B6.’ That’s crazy talk, and a product of a wild imagination of some people with too much time on their hands and too much dedication to their favorite airline.

Obviously, the service from ATL wasn’t successful enough to return. But DL must’ve had some successful pieces and figured that it could retain those via a domestic 757, which would be more successful than a D1-configured widebody.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: DL launches BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:29 pm

Sad that the Atlanta to Lisbon service was cut.
 
777Mech
Topic Author
Posts: 755
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: DL launches BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:38 pm

compensateme wrote:
Geeze, a.net manufactures a lot of drama. Let’s be realistic: DL didn’t end D1 service
From ATL and replace it with a domestic 757 from BOS to ‘make a preemptive strike at B6.’ That’s crazy talk, and a product of a wild imagination of some people with too much time on their hands and too much dedication to their favorite airline.

Obviously, the service from ATL wasn’t successful enough to return. But DL must’ve had some successful pieces and figured that it could retain those via a domestic 757, which would be more successful than a D1-configured widebody.


That extra 767 will go towards another route to be announced soon.
 
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spinotter
Posts: 519
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: DL launches BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:44 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
Sad that the Atlanta to Lisbon service was cut.


No airline can keep every route that it inaugurates. I like how Delta is recreating a transatlantic hub at BOS something on the order of what NW had back in the 80's and 90's. DL (and its partners AF/KL?) have LHR, CDG, AMS - NW had all those, I believe (LGW however), as well as FRA and CPH at the height of their TATL hub. So DL also has DUB and now LIS - any others? Can the domestic 757 compete with other airline offerings on the routes?
 
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Dieuwer
Posts: 1357
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:52 pm

NickolayAv wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
TW870 wrote:
I think the U.S. airline industry is mature to the point that the carriers aren't "putting the screws to" each other like they were right after deregulation. I think that DL sees a major opportunity for a network carrier operation in BOS and SEA. They can sell their international network, and then use that network to leverage corporate accounts for premium North America traffic. AS and B6 just cannot match that portfolio. But with that said, I think AS and B6 will continue to do very well in SEA and BOS respectively, and that Delta knows that. People on a.net freaked out for the first few years of the DL expansion in SEA, and now things have calmed down on a.net. I think it will be the same with BOS.


Delta may not "put the screws" to AA or UA, but they are "putting the screws" to B6.
Alaska still has the dominant position at SEA because they saw the writing on the wall and attempted to pre-empt DL at SEA by increasing feed to their international partners and adding new destinations.
In contrast, JetBlue has been "twiddling their thumbs" at BOS and let DL swoop in and take market share. They let DL expand, and add international destinations out of BOS while B6 is still thinking about that! :banghead:

I would respectfully disagree. I think JetBlue is doing quite the opposite, in the last .5-1 year B6 has added HAV, MEX, HDN, PSP as well as adding frequencies to various markets. I think ultimately we are going to see a very similar thing as we saw in SEA. DL will greatly expand in BOS, but will probably stay as the #2 in market share. DL just isn't adding the frequencies to push out B6 out of most markets, I do however think we will see many more people connecting in BOS. Just look at the added DL Sarasota flight as an example. B6 is running daily A320 for a large part of the year, while DL will fly an E175 once weekly for 1.5 months.


Sorry, but I personally don't get excited when B6 adds second rate Caribbean destinations...
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 4016
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: DL launches BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:56 pm

Looking at Q4 2018 capacity BOS is DL's fastest growing Hub/Focus city with a capacity jump of 15%, this is compared to SEA who will have a 8% jump.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
TropicalSky
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 1:37 pm

Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:10 pm

What's a second rate Caribbean destination? :scratchchin:


Dieuwer wrote:
NickolayAv wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

Delta may not "put the screws" to AA or UA, but they are "putting the screws" to B6.
Alaska still has the dominant position at SEA because they saw the writing on the wall and attempted to pre-empt DL at SEA by increasing feed to their international partners and adding new destinations.
In contrast, JetBlue has been "twiddling their thumbs" at BOS and let DL swoop in and take market share. They let DL expand, and add international destinations out of BOS while B6 is still thinking about that! :banghead:

I would respectfully disagree. I think JetBlue is doing quite the opposite, in the last .5-1 year B6 has added HAV, MEX, HDN, PSP as well as adding frequencies to various markets. I think ultimately we are going to see a very similar thing as we saw in SEA. DL will greatly expand in BOS, but will probably stay as the #2 in market share. DL just isn't adding the frequencies to push out B6 out of most markets, I do however think we will see many more people connecting in BOS. Just look at the added DL Sarasota flight as an example. B6 is running daily A320 for a large part of the year, while DL will fly an E175 once weekly for 1.5 months.


Sorry, but I personally don't get excited when B6 adds second rate Caribbean destinations...
 
iyerhari
Posts: 941
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:10 pm

tphuang wrote:
To the concept of DL "putting the screws" on B6, they've been trying to do that in JFK for years and haven't gone anywhere with it.

B6 cannot prevent DL from expanding at BOS. It's only got 31% of market share at the moment and DL has plenty of gate space. In reality, B6's market share has gone up since DL started their expansion. Frankly, BOS is becoming a huge bloodbath, especially in the transcon market. And that's due to DL's growth and B6 moves to counteract. On top of that, AA and UA are both very strong in domestic markets out of BOS and have very strong network alliances that will always keep them relevance.

Are you suggesting airline competition should just keep the status quo? You have to give credit to DL to continually seek opportunities and find new avenues. Within a span of 2 years they have added routes and continually trying options to seek avenues. Even if B6 market share in BOS has increased, B6 won't be AS is at SEA where AS commands over 60+% of the market. It is well known that AA or UA are not going to add non-hub routes. It will take time in established markets like BOS to have success. Some may work and many may falter.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3001
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:40 pm

iyerhari wrote:
tphuang wrote:
To the concept of DL "putting the screws" on B6, they've been trying to do that in JFK for years and haven't gone anywhere with it.

B6 cannot prevent DL from expanding at BOS. It's only got 31% of market share at the moment and DL has plenty of gate space. In reality, B6's market share has gone up since DL started their expansion. Frankly, BOS is becoming a huge bloodbath, especially in the transcon market. And that's due to DL's growth and B6 moves to counteract. On top of that, AA and UA are both very strong in domestic markets out of BOS and have very strong network alliances that will always keep them relevance.

Are you suggesting airline competition should just keep the status quo? You have to give credit to DL to continually seek opportunities and find new avenues. Within a span of 2 years they have added routes and continually trying options to seek avenues. Even if B6 market share in BOS has increased, B6 won't be AS is at SEA where AS commands over 60+% of the market. It is well known that AA or UA are not going to add non-hub routes. It will take time in established markets like BOS to have success. Some may work and many may falter.


I am saying that the idea dl is putting screws on b6 is not based on facts. Both airlines are growing and that’s been really good for consumers. Aa and ua will always be relevant in bos due to the strength of their hubs in some of the largest markets out of Bos. At most, dl will get to a clear number 2 position at bos unless something happens to b6. I will say this, dl seems to be quite committed to Boston, because they are loosing heavy money on a lot of new routes they added.

FYI as is at around 50% of Seattle market when accounting for international services.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 941
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:45 pm

tphuang wrote:
I am saying that the idea dl is putting screws on b6 is not based on facts. Both airlines are growing and that’s been really good for consumers. Aa and ua will always be relevant in bos due to the strength of their hubs in some of the largest markets out of Bos. At most, dl will get to a clear number 2 position at bos unless something happens to b6. I will say this, dl seems to be quite committed to Boston, because they are loosing heavy money on a lot of new routes they added.

FYI as is at around 50% of Seattle market when accounting for international services.


Good point but the scales are tipped very differently in AS and thanks for clarifying. I checked the Dec-2017 market share report,

AS (including Horizon air): 52.73%
DL (including DL connections): 16.91%
WN: 7.44%
UA (including connections): 7.56%
AA (including connections): 6.77%

This shows AS is way too dominant and unless there was some earth shattering incident, they are covered there for a long time which isn't the case with B6 at BOS,. They have a lot of holes in their network at BOS and not similar to SEA.
 
ual777newpaint
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:39 am

Re: DL launches BOS-LIS in S19

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:10 am

Interesting - they’re marketing the 20F seats on the domestic 757 as “Premium Select,” their brand for the Premium Economy product on their A350s (and soon other wide bodies).
318 319 320 320N 321 333 343 346 359 717 727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 744 752 753 762 763 76E 764 77A 77E 773 789 CRJ CR7 CR9 E45 E70 E75 E90 F50 F70 MD88 MD90 DL UA WN B6 TK US U2 KL EQ MU SK GK VY AF AM KE XL KN CZ VS 3U CM CA 7P SC
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5436
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:26 am

iyerhari wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I am saying that the idea dl is putting screws on b6 is not based on facts. Both airlines are growing and that’s been really good for consumers. Aa and ua will always be relevant in bos due to the strength of their hubs in some of the largest markets out of Bos. At most, dl will get to a clear number 2 position at bos unless something happens to b6. I will say this, dl seems to be quite committed to Boston, because they are loosing heavy money on a lot of new routes they added.

FYI as is at around 50% of Seattle market when accounting for international services.


Good point but the scales are tipped very differently in AS and thanks for clarifying. I checked the Dec-2017 market share report,

AS (including Horizon air): 52.73%
DL (including DL connections): 16.91%
WN: 7.44%
UA (including connections): 7.56%
AA (including connections): 6.77%

This shows AS is way too dominant and unless there was some earth shattering incident, they are covered there for a long time which isn't the case with B6 at BOS,. They have a lot of holes in their network at BOS and not similar to SEA.


It's off-topic for DL BOS-LIS, but SEA passenger count isn't RPMs or revenue.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: DL launches BOS-LIS in S19

Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:31 am

777Mech wrote:
compensateme wrote:
Geeze, a.net manufactures a lot of drama. Let’s be realistic: DL didn’t end D1 service
From ATL and replace it with a domestic 757 from BOS to ‘make a preemptive strike at B6.’ That’s crazy talk, and a product of a wild imagination of some people with too much time on their hands and too much dedication to their favorite airline.

Obviously, the service from ATL wasn’t successful enough to return. But DL must’ve had some successful pieces and figured that it could retain those via a domestic 757, which would be more successful than a D1-configured widebody.


That extra 767 will go towards another route to be announced soon.


Is DL planning on retiring any 763/ER before next summe? With just two 359 coming into the system next year, and just two routes ending (ATL-LIS, PIT-CDG) against all the additions (DTW-HNL, additional DTW/PDX-LHR, TPA-AMS, LAX-AMS/CDG, JFK-CDG, JFK-TLV, did I miss any?), it seems like we should expect more cancellations. Especially if India is launched.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
fastmover
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:37 pm

Re: Rumor: DL launching BOS-LIS in S19

Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:01 am

iyerhari wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I am saying that the idea dl is putting screws on b6 is not based on facts. Both airlines are growing and that’s been really good for consumers. Aa and ua will always be relevant in bos due to the strength of their hubs in some of the largest markets out of Bos. At most, dl will get to a clear number 2 position at bos unless something happens to b6. I will say this, dl seems to be quite committed to Boston, because they are loosing heavy money on a lot of new routes they added.

FYI as is at around 50% of Seattle market when accounting for international services.


Good point but the scales are tipped very differently in AS and thanks for clarifying. I checked the Dec-2017 market share report,

AS (including Horizon air): 52.73%
DL (including DL connections): 16.91%
WN: 7.44%
UA (including connections): 7.56%
AA (including connections): 6.77%

This shows AS is way too dominant and unless there was some earth shattering incident, they are covered there for a long time which isn't the case with B6 at BOS,. They have a lot of holes in their network at BOS and not similar to SEA.



Does this ever end? Delta will not be chasing JetBlue out of Boston. I know I work for JetBlue but this is getting old. Look at what JetBlue has pulled off there. They went from like two gates to what they have now and became the largest carrier in Boston. Delta is just moving back into their own terminal and it’s like oh they are so awesome.

Nobody is going to control Boston and as T keeps saying it’s hard for JetBlue to have a fortress hub. The only way to pull that off would be a merger. JetBlue has stated that there would be a slowdown in Boston since they are out of gates right now but there will be some new ones soon. The other thing is it’s primarily a 190 city so it wouldn’t be that hard to add more seats as the 190 goes away. They will fill the holes and many of them are across the pond.

Obviously this is a shot at JetBlue with I’m sure many more to come but don’t think JetBlue is just going to give up Boston.
 
777Mech
Topic Author
Posts: 755
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: DL launches BOS-LIS in S19

Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:16 am

compensateme wrote:
777Mech wrote:
compensateme wrote:
Geeze, a.net manufactures a lot of drama. Let’s be realistic: DL didn’t end D1 service
From ATL and replace it with a domestic 757 from BOS to ‘make a preemptive strike at B6.’ That’s crazy talk, and a product of a wild imagination of some people with too much time on their hands and too much dedication to their favorite airline.

Obviously, the service from ATL wasn’t successful enough to return. But DL must’ve had some successful pieces and figured that it could retain those via a domestic 757, which would be more successful than a D1-configured widebody.


That extra 767 will go towards another route to be announced soon.


Is DL planning on retiring any 763/ER before next summe? With just two 359 coming into the system next year, and just two routes ending (ATL-LIS, PIT-CDG) against all the additions (DTW-HNL, additional DTW/PDX-LHR, TPA-AMS, LAX-AMS/CDG, JFK-CDG, JFK-TLV, did I miss any?), it seems like we should expect more cancellations. Especially if India is launched.


No ERs are retiring, and DL will be getting 3 or 4 A330neos with the first delivery in February. Still quite a bit of wiggle room to work with

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