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SCQ83
Posts: 5809
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:47 pm

PerfectGriffin wrote:
I'm not aware of the dynamics and economics of Spain, but I find it astonishing that MAD has so much demand and yet airlines can't make BCN work... Having been to Barcelona before, surely tourist demand is enough to sustain one daily flight?


You are overestimating the appeal of Barcelona to Spanish-speaking Latin Americans, specially in a city where Spanish language is not particularly welcomed.

http://www.ine.es/jaxi/Datos.htm?path=/ ... 1pro022.px

I can't find details specifically Mexicans (370,000 visited Spain in 2016), but according to the Spanish Statistical Office, in 2017 citizens for the Americas (other than US-citizens; so this figure includes Canadians that very likely visit BCN more) made 1.6 million overnight stays in Barcelona VS 2.4 million in Madrid. So Madrid is already way ahead of Barcelona as a tourism destination for Latin Americans. If you count VFR and specially business links MAD is in another galaxy.

There is a reason why MEX-MAD is currently 35 weekly and MEX-BCN is 0.
 
jmmadrid
Posts: 355
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Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:55 pm

For their long haul flights to be profitable, legacy airlines need to fill up Business Class and sell many full fare Economy seats, and this usually requires business ties between city pairs. While BCN attracts tourists from all over the world, the city does not have strong business ties with Latin America. Hence, it's difficult for airlines to fill up the front cabin.
 
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PerfectGriffin
Posts: 539
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Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:58 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
PerfectGriffin wrote:
I'm not aware of the dynamics and economics of Spain, but I find it astonishing that MAD has so much demand and yet airlines can't make BCN work... Having been to Barcelona before, surely tourist demand is enough to sustain one daily flight?


You are overestimating the appeal of Barcelona to Spanish-speaking Latin Americans, specially in a city where Spanish language is not particularly welcomed.

http://www.ine.es/jaxi/Datos.htm?path=/ ... 1pro022.px

I can't find details specifically Mexicans (370,000 visited Spain in 2016), but according to the Spanish Statistical Office, in 2017 citizens for the Americas (other than US-citizens; so this figure includes Canadians that very likely visit BCN more) made 1.6 million overnight stays in Barcelona VS 2.4 million in Madrid. So Madrid is already way ahead of Barcelona as a tourism destination for Latin Americans. If you count VFR and specially business links MAD is in another galaxy.

There is a reason why MEX-MAD is currently 35 weekly and MEX-BCN is 0.


Thanks for the explanation, I didn't know this before.
 
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aerolimani
Posts: 1323
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:52 pm

Just a few thoughts… how interesting is Mexico to Catalans, and how interesting is Catalan culture to Mexicans? The colonial connection is with Spanish culture, not Catalonian, isn't it?

I was also thinking that Barcelona's commercial importance has been strong in the past, but in light of the independence movement, it seems like it is in decline.

So… how strong is the overall demand to begin with, and is the demand in decline anyhow?
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5809
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:15 pm

aerolimani wrote:
Just a few thoughts… how interesting is Mexico to Catalans, and how interesting is Catalan culture to Mexicans? The colonial connection is with Spanish culture, not Catalonian, isn't it?


It is not about interest, but also about Madrid being a way bigger and wealthier market than Barcelona. To put it in perspective, speaking only about destinations in the Caribbean, which cater to Spanish tourists. For this week:

MAD-Havana: 18 flights on 4 carriers
MAD-Santo Domingo: 14 flights on 2 carriers
MAD-Cancún: 9 flights on 3 carriers
MAD-Punta Cana: 7 flights on 3 carriers
MAD-San Juan: 3 flights
MAD-Santiago de Cuba: 1 flight
MAD-Varadero: 1 flight

So there is a combined 51 weekly flights to the Caribbean from MAD this week on multiple carriers (Iberia, Air Europa, Evelop, Wamos and Cubana) compared to 0 weekly flights from BCN. As I mentioned before, LEVEL tried BCN-PUJ 2 or 3 weekly and they cut it after 1 season.
 
dz09
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:20 am

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:48 pm

emiratesdriver wrote:
dz09 wrote:
worldranger wrote:


What you fail to understand is that a recurrent PPC at EK is a total of 18hrs on top of the flying schedule. The legal max per month is 100 then add recurrent which is not legally flying for FDP purposes and hey bingo you can ‘fly’ up to 118 pm. While it’s not all technically flying, the sim is far mosre exhausting, can take place at 3am, lasts 6 hours and for the purposes of safety should be considered as flying.

The regulator however, is run by the same people who run everything. I’ll leave it at that.

What Emirasdriver is stating is inside knowledge and widely practiced at EK -

Further for legal purposes the Co can factor the Augmenting segment of a ULR @ 50% which although flying - considers the bunk time non flying for legal purposes. For 380 guys who fly lots of ULRs - 115 happens regularly due factoring.

EK pilots are flat out and fed up - and leaving in numbers

So you were saying dz09?


what I was saying is that all what you and your buddy are saying is BS. Emirates, and I'm not a big fan of EK, is a major airline and is not going to subvert international rules and regulations and not even try to play around them. any statistics can be packaged and presented to be purposely misleading. just assume for a minute that EK did not exist. where would that leave consumers flying to that part of the world? like it or not, EK and other middle eastern airlines play an important part in a global network. I am very pro-competition and I can't stand crybabies like Delta and its fanboys. Mexican travelers and even Spanish ones would welcome EK on the BCN-MAD route, I am sure.


Daz, dont try to pretend to know whats going on at EK, you are merely showing yourself to be ignorant.
For the benefit of the readers here is a de-identified recent A380 Cpts roster.

01 DXB-LGW
02 LGW-DXB
03 Rest Day
04 Day Off
05 DXB-LHR
06 LHR-DXB
07 Day Off
08 Day Off
09 STBY- ULR
10 DXB-AKL
11 Rest Day
13 Rest Day
14 AKL-DXB
15 Day Off
16 Day Off
17 DXB-BOM-DXB
18 DXB-PRG
19 PRG-DXB
20 Day Off
21 Rest Day
22 DXB-KUL
23 KUL-DXB
24 Day Off
25 Day Off
27 DXB-IAH
28 Rest Day


114hrs 25 min in a 28 day block, reduced by factoring to now a "legal" 98hrs as bunk time isnt considered to be flight time.
This 28 day period is why people are leaving, its why there is a shortage of new joiners and its why no one has any clue as to the effect on your body until youve flown a 28 day period like this.
Sadly, this is a typical 380 roster at EK these days.


whatever! just admit that you have an axe to grind with EK.
 
worldranger
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:12 pm

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:15 pm

We are talking with facts and in situ.

If what EDrvr and I are saying is not factual - the. Can you tell us how many hours the EK drivers are flying every month.
It’s a Simple question for the neutrals to balance the argument - so go ahead with your numbers.

I won’t even get into the fact that EK pilots need to brief the CC @ 83 minutes prior on all facets of of the flight yet their legal duty starts at 85 prior in DXB and 60! Prior at out stations. Giving them 2 minuetes to to brief, plan, review fuel, weather, rest plans etc in two minutes. Obviously the professionals won’t do that and spend a lot of theit time doing the above which is not taken into account & should not legally be done.

Anywway back to you dz09....your inside knowledge of duty hours ?
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4733
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:02 am

abrelosojos wrote:
If the AM management is as good as I think it is, it will announce BCN soon again. They took a hard line against government subsidies of EK, and now it will be seem what they do.

Saludos,
Alex


Oh please. They just did not like the competition. Spare us the brave AM took at stand for the free market and went head on against subsidies-central EK narrative. AM and mother ship DL talk the talk but not always walk the walk. And guess what? It's OK. It's business after all. But lets not go Pollyana...
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Charlie252
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 12:20 pm

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:11 am

A-380 Left Seat, August 106:25, September 104:50, October 85:55 with 7 days leave..

The Shortage is having an effect, some planned new services are being canned and planned up-gauges are not happening
 
dcajet
Topic Author
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Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:50 pm

Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
dodgers702
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:40 pm

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:01 pm

dcajet wrote:



Funny how this time they don't announce a start up date or even hint by a certain year. When EK had plans they rushed in and set a start up date quickly. I will not be surprised if this route from AM never happens or at least not anytime soon.
 
emiratesdriver
Posts: 294
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:04 pm

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:32 pm

For those not up to speed, EK has canned a significant number of frequencies and consolidated plenty of others. Rumours circulating that the head of network has been sacked for gross negligence as there was evidence of “phantom” pilots being used to make monthly rosters work within the confines of duty rules.
Allegedly 200 pilots short on the 380 and 250 short on the 777 by December with the current programme.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep18/
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4733
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:54 pm

emiratesdriver wrote:
For those not up to speed, EK has canned a significant number of frequencies and consolidated plenty of others. Rumours circulating that the head of network has been sacked for gross negligence as there was evidence of “phantom” pilots being used to make monthly rosters work within the confines of duty rules.
Allegedly 200 pilots short on the 380 and 250 short on the 777 by December with the current programme.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep18/


All four Latin American destinations served by EK (EZE, GIG, GRU & SCL) have received the visit of the scissors fairy - they all lose frequencies from March 2019.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20612
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:13 pm

emiratesdriver wrote:
For those not up to speed, EK has canned a significant number of frequencies and consolidated plenty of others. Rumours circulating that the head of network has been sacked for gross negligence as there was evidence of “phantom” pilots being used to make monthly rosters work within the confines of duty rules.
Allegedly 200 pilots short on the 380 and 250 short on the 777 by December with the current programme.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep18/

There are 4300 pilots needed for Emirates. So you are effectively stating there are 3850 pilots or 11% short.

I'm curious as to the true figure.

What we know is the ME3 have issues. I would be surprised if EK wasn't impacted. When the new IST opens, there will be added competition.
What would really hurt EK is if India builds a far larger hub with excellent domestic to international infrastructure (no terminal switch, enough gates and runways for large hub banks).

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5809
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:15 pm

dcajet wrote:
All four Latin American destinations served by EK (EZE, GIG, GRU & SCL) have received the visit of the scissors fairy - they all lose frequencies from March 2019.


SCL started a few weeks ago!
 
dcajet
Topic Author
Posts: 4733
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:23 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
All four Latin American destinations served by EK (EZE, GIG, GRU & SCL) have received the visit of the scissors fairy - they all lose frequencies from March 2019.


SCL started a few weeks ago!


These cuts speak more to EK's own internal issues than to a generalized malaise south of the Equator.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
Charlie252
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 12:20 pm

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:53 am

Lightsaber, Where do you get the figure of 4300 From??
 
emiratesdriver
Posts: 294
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:04 pm

Re: Emirates shelves plans to fly to MEX

Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:30 am

lightsaber wrote:
emiratesdriver wrote:
For those not up to speed, EK has canned a significant number of frequencies and consolidated plenty of others. Rumours circulating that the head of network has been sacked for gross negligence as there was evidence of “phantom” pilots being used to make monthly rosters work within the confines of duty rules.
Allegedly 200 pilots short on the 380 and 250 short on the 777 by December with the current programme.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-27sep18/

There are 4300 pilots needed for Emirates. So you are effectively stating there are 3850 pilots or 11% short.

I'm curious as to the true figure.

What we know is the ME3 have issues. I would be surprised if EK wasn't impacted. When the new IST opens, there will be added competition.
What would really hurt EK is if India builds a far larger hub with excellent domestic to international infrastructure (no terminal switch, enough gates and runways for large hub banks).

Lightsaber



4550-4600 required for the roster based on a nominal 85 flying hours, in reality there are less than 4100 on property at the moment which is reducing by about 10-15 per month. The math is inescapable even if the ego maniacs running the show won’t admit to it.

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