jetwet1
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:46 am

MaksFly wrote:
For Vegas locals, yes, it could work especially if they live in the outskirts of town or in Boulder City, Summerlin, etc... for tourists? Hell no.


For locals it would work ?????

Okay, if you live in the far south of the valley maybe, but anything north, east or west of say Russell it would be a nightmare.

There have been a few posts saying the new airport would be 30 minutes from Vegas, sorry but no it wouldn't for the vast majority of people, heck it's taken me 30-45 minutes to get from the spaghetti bowl to Trop a couple of times this week, when we lived at Desert Shores it was easily a 30 minute drive to get to LAS, out to the new airport you are looking at way over an hour, with good traffic, which let's face it, the 15 from Trop up to the 95 has, at 4am on a Wednesday morning, the rest of the time it is gridlock. Right now at 1am Google is saying it's 48 minutes from Desert shores to the site of the new airport.

ClipperYankee wrote:
Wasn't there a plan bandied about for a while to eventually take over Nellis Air Force Base and have flights out of there? I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere, as highly unlikely it is that it ever happens.


There were a couple of pieces written about the idea, the USAF quickly pointed out that it wasn't happening and the local councils were quick to point out that Nellis pumps a lot of money into the local economy and that they love having Nellis here.

Jouhou wrote:

Public transportation at LAS is pathetic. I'm from the northeast where every major city has extensive public transportation. At LAS I had to wait for a bus for 45 minutes. Then I had to switch busses to get to the strip. For an airport so close to the strip, that was absolutely pathetic. An airport 30 minutes away but with a direct rail connection would be light years ahead of the current set up.

Also US west: wtf is up with the lack of public transportation?!!!


It's way better than it used to be, but yes, it's still not great.

The west as a whole....Big spaces with a spread out population, all based around the car, we out here didn't build up, we built out.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:06 am

Jouhou wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
neomax wrote:
Airports far from the city centre with ample room to grow are the future.

Yes. But unless there is cheap and fast rail to the strip, this will die. They also must close the current LAS or this is Mini Mirabel. Say a 90mph to 120mph train to cut the journey to 15 to 20 minutes with 3 to 5 more stops. As each stop as 4 to 5 minutes, every stop past a half hour is pretty worthless.
So 20minutes at stop 2 (best case,)
24 for stop 3
28 for stop 4
32 for stop 5. About the limit. Perhaps one more stop for North park and ride?

Vegas will max out. It has poor land layout. Delays will grow quicker than a we'll laid out airport with parallel runways.

Lightsaber


Public transportation at LAS is pathetic. I'm from the northeast where every major city has extensive public transportation. At LAS I had to wait for a bus for 45 minutes. Then I had to switch busses to get to the strip. For an airport so close to the strip, that was absolutely pathetic. An airport 30 minutes away but with a direct rail connection would be light years ahead of the current set up.

Also US west: wtf is up with the lack of public transportation?!!!


Las Vegas has excellent public transportation, including dedicated bus lines. The reason for the limited service from the airport to the Strip is lack of demand — one can travel from the airport directly to their Strip hotel for $10-15 via Uber/Lyft, or a few bucks more in a taxi. Most people aren’t traveling solo (sans business travelers and business travelers rarely ride public tansportation) so the saving incurred by using public transportation is minimal, and not worth the time.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:40 am

@Jouhou... remember public transport exists (and is funded partly through) taxes from locals who work either on the strip or the airport. There are currently plans to build a high capacity line (could be light rail, but not confirmed) from the airport to UNLV down Maryland Parkway to downtown- again this is for locals. There is talk of an airport to Strip line, but it's second priority.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:55 pm

eta unknown wrote:
@Jouhou... remember public transport exists (and is funded partly through) taxes from locals who work either on the strip or the airport. There are currently plans to build a high capacity line (could be light rail, but not confirmed) from the airport to UNLV down Maryland Parkway to downtown- again this is for locals. There is talk of an airport to Strip line, but it's second priority.


I thought the monorail was planned to be extended to LAS?
 
Bogof7478
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:29 pm

Never understood why the monorail in vegas doesnt go to the airport
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:37 pm

neomax wrote:
Airports far from the city centre with ample room to grow are the future.

Not in a practical way, at least not until the U.S. gets a LOT more rapid/mass transit going.
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Jouhou
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:52 pm

compensateme wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Yes. But unless there is cheap and fast rail to the strip, this will die. They also must close the current LAS or this is Mini Mirabel. Say a 90mph to 120mph train to cut the journey to 15 to 20 minutes with 3 to 5 more stops. As each stop as 4 to 5 minutes, every stop past a half hour is pretty worthless.
So 20minutes at stop 2 (best case,)
24 for stop 3
28 for stop 4
32 for stop 5. About the limit. Perhaps one more stop for North park and ride?

Vegas will max out. It has poor land layout. Delays will grow quicker than a we'll laid out airport with parallel runways.

Lightsaber


Public transportation at LAS is pathetic. I'm from the northeast where every major city has extensive public transportation. At LAS I had to wait for a bus for 45 minutes. Then I had to switch busses to get to the strip. For an airport so close to the strip, that was absolutely pathetic. An airport 30 minutes away but with a direct rail connection would be light years ahead of the current set up.

Also US west: wtf is up with the lack of public transportation?!!!


Las Vegas has excellent public transportation, including dedicated bus lines. The reason for the limited service from the airport to the Strip is lack of demand — one can travel from the airport directly to their Strip hotel for $10-15 via Uber/Lyft, or a few bucks more in a taxi. Most people aren’t traveling solo (sans business travelers and business travelers rarely ride public tansportation) so the saving incurred by using public transportation is minimal, and not worth the time.


I don't ride public transportation because it's cheaper, I do it out of habit. And not having to talk to anyone. Hence the culture shock experienced every time I travel to the west. Phoenix is weird and sprawled out as well, with weak public transportation and no sidewalks in a lot of places. It's weird to me.
 
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johnboy
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:17 pm

Jouhou wrote:

Also US west: wtf is up with the lack of public transportation?!!!


Huh?

Warm regards,
San Francisco.
 
mga707
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:18 pm

Jouhou wrote:

Public transportation at LAS is pathetic. I'm from the northeast where every major city has extensive public transportation. At LAS I had to wait for a bus for 45 minutes. Then I had to switch busses to get to the strip. For an airport so close to the strip, that was absolutely pathetic. An airport 30 minutes away but with a direct rail connection would be light years ahead of the current set up.


One four-letter word: Taxi. That's how people get from the airport to the Strip in Vegas. Perhaps you noticed one or two while you were waiting for your bus...
 
cschleic
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:52 pm

mga707 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Public transportation at LAS is pathetic. I'm from the northeast where every major city has extensive public transportation. At LAS I had to wait for a bus for 45 minutes. Then I had to switch busses to get to the strip. For an airport so close to the strip, that was absolutely pathetic. An airport 30 minutes away but with a direct rail connection would be light years ahead of the current set up.


One four-letter word: Taxi. That's how people get from the airport to the Strip in Vegas. Perhaps you noticed one or two while you were waiting for your bus...


Very true. They're going from one location to many locations so typical public transit is difficult. A large amount of LAS traffic is convention related so the goal is to get to the venue as quickly as possible. Plus, as pointed out in one post, traffic around the airport and strip can be horrendous. But...any viable alternative to the taxis and their persistent longhauling would be welcome.

Why doesn't the monorail go to the airport? It's a private enterprise operation, it's expensive and only runs behind hotels on one side of the strip, limiting is practicality.
 
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WALmsp
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:01 pm

cschleic wrote:
mga707 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Why doesn't the monorail go to the airport? It's a private enterprise operation, it's expensive and only runs behind hotels on one side of the strip, limiting is practicality.


Didn't the taxi industry fight any extension to the airport?
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Coronado990
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:54 pm

As long as airports make a revenue off of automobile parking, you'll never see any decent public transportation to the terminal in the U.S. short of the hourly service to get a few workers there.
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compensateme
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:21 pm

WALmsp wrote:
cschleic wrote:
mga707 wrote:


Didn't the taxi industry fight any extension to the airport?


No. The monorail is a bust, with ridership levels nowhere close to projections. Although some still push for an airport extension, cost-benefit analysis continue to show that it wouldn’t make sense.

A couple could take a Lyft/Uber directly to their hotel for about the same price as the monorail; the monorail would require multiple stops, and often a long walk.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:39 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Also US west: wtf is up with the lack of public transportation?!!!


The West was developed and continues to be developed with the idea of “wide open” spaces and “freedom”. MOST people do not move to Las Vegas, Phoenix, Salt Lake, Reno, Boise, etc to live an urban transit based lifestyle. I knew someone who moved to Phoenix with the main motivation being to have a 3100 square foot house instead of a 2000 square foot house in SoCal. They were a couple with no kids. lol. Americans and especially Westerners are all about size. Cars are also status symbols out here. On top of that when East Coast cities were developing cars didn’t exist.

Some of these places are making strides in transit. Salt Lake has a decent system considering how suburban it is. Coastal big cities have decent systems with the exception of LA, but most of those places still require a car unless you can afford to live near work.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:13 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Also US west: wtf is up with the lack of public transportation?!!!


The West was developed and continues to be developed with the idea of “wide open” spaces and “freedom”. MOST people do not move to Las Vegas, Phoenix, Salt Lake, Reno, Boise, etc to live an urban transit based lifestyle. I knew someone who moved to Phoenix with the main motivation being to have a 3100 square foot house instead of a 2000 square foot house in SoCal. They were a couple with no kids. lol. Americans and especially Westerners are all about size. Cars are also status symbols out here. On top of that when East Coast cities were developing cars didn’t exist.

Some of these places are making strides in transit. Salt Lake has a decent system considering how suburban it is. Coastal big cities have decent systems with the exception of LA, but most of those places still require a car unless you can afford to live near work.


It's weird because I've grown up to associate cars with wasting time in traffic and dying a horrible death in accidents. And yeah, some western cities are making an effort to have something, and San Francisco has always had a U.S. Northeast style system.

Maybe people from the West should come to a city like Boston and try driving for a few days and then try public transportation for the rest of the trip. The inefficient road layout of Boston will make anyone trying to navigate the city by car want to drive off the nearest bridge. When I ask people how they feel about Boston the people who hate it always tried driving a car in it.

To tie that in with my original point, for a city that relies so much on tourism, Las Vegas doesn't seem to understand what would make tourists from far flung places feel comfortable. The high spending chinese tourists cities covet come to mind. In China, a foreigner taking a taxi is a bad idea, they will overcharge you and possibly abduct you. The public transportation on the other hand puts ours to shame.
Last edited by Jouhou on Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
WeatherPilot
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:14 pm

How about Lake Mead?

Image
 
MaksFly
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:44 am

Jouhou wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
neomax wrote:
Airports far from the city centre with ample room to grow are the future.

Yes. But unless there is cheap and fast rail to the strip, this will die. They also must close the current LAS or this is Mini Mirabel. Say a 90mph to 120mph train to cut the journey to 15 to 20 minutes with 3 to 5 more stops. As each stop as 4 to 5 minutes, every stop past a half hour is pretty worthless.
So 20minutes at stop 2 (best case,)
24 for stop 3
28 for stop 4
32 for stop 5. About the limit. Perhaps one more stop for North park and ride?

Vegas will max out. It has poor land layout. Delays will grow quicker than a we'll laid out airport with parallel runways.

Lightsaber


Public transportation at LAS is pathetic. I'm from the northeast where every major city has extensive public transportation. At LAS I had to wait for a bus for 45 minutes. Then I had to switch busses to get to the strip. For an airport so close to the strip, that was absolutely pathetic. An airport 30 minutes away but with a direct rail connection would be light years ahead of the current set up.

Also US west: wtf is up with the lack of public transportation?!!!


OR....

You could have gotten Lyft/Uber within 30 seconds to 2 mins and been at your hotel for about $5, or taken an airport shuttle bus for about $5.

LAS has pretty good infrastructure and public transportation.

When 99% of the people visiting LAS are NOT going to take the regular Bus... and where the infrastructure is built around those 99%, complaining about it is akin to going to a an American steakhouse and complaining that the sushi is not great.
 
MaksFly
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:48 am

Jouhou wrote:
compensateme wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Public transportation at LAS is pathetic. I'm from the northeast where every major city has extensive public transportation. At LAS I had to wait for a bus for 45 minutes. Then I had to switch busses to get to the strip. For an airport so close to the strip, that was absolutely pathetic. An airport 30 minutes away but with a direct rail connection would be light years ahead of the current set up.

Also US west: wtf is up with the lack of public transportation?!!!


Las Vegas has excellent public transportation, including dedicated bus lines. The reason for the limited service from the airport to the Strip is lack of demand — one can travel from the airport directly to their Strip hotel for $10-15 via Uber/Lyft, or a few bucks more in a taxi. Most people aren’t traveling solo (sans business travelers and business travelers rarely ride public tansportation) so the saving incurred by using public transportation is minimal, and not worth the time.


I don't ride public transportation because it's cheaper, I do it out of habit. And not having to talk to anyone. Hence the culture shock experienced every time I travel to the west. Phoenix is weird and sprawled out as well, with weak public transportation and no sidewalks in a lot of places. It's weird to me.


You don't need to say A WORD to your uber driver, and just a destination to your taxi driver.

As a former Uber/Lyft driver, I PROMISE YOU, the drivers are quite content with people who just get in, say hello and then put their face into their phones or look out the window and not say another word until the destination and when it is time to say good bye.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:53 am

MaksFly wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Yes. But unless there is cheap and fast rail to the strip, this will die. They also must close the current LAS or this is Mini Mirabel. Say a 90mph to 120mph train to cut the journey to 15 to 20 minutes with 3 to 5 more stops. As each stop as 4 to 5 minutes, every stop past a half hour is pretty worthless.
So 20minutes at stop 2 (best case,)
24 for stop 3
28 for stop 4
32 for stop 5. About the limit. Perhaps one more stop for North park and ride?

Vegas will max out. It has poor land layout. Delays will grow quicker than a we'll laid out airport with parallel runways.

Lightsaber


Public transportation at LAS is pathetic. I'm from the northeast where every major city has extensive public transportation. At LAS I had to wait for a bus for 45 minutes. Then I had to switch busses to get to the strip. For an airport so close to the strip, that was absolutely pathetic. An airport 30 minutes away but with a direct rail connection would be light years ahead of the current set up.

Also US west: wtf is up with the lack of public transportation?!!!


OR....

You could have gotten Lyft/Uber within 30 seconds to 2 mins and been at your hotel for about $5, or taken an airport shuttle bus for about $5.

LAS has pretty good infrastructure and public transportation.

When 99% of the people visiting LAS are NOT going to take the regular Bus... and where the infrastructure is built around those 99%, complaining about it is akin to going to a an American steakhouse and complaining that the sushi is not great.


I'm pointing out that it's scaring off tourists. So maybe that 99% figure is true, but only because you aren't drawing in the high value tourists you want. You're drawing in people who fly allegiant, tip poorly, and are perfectly comfortable with their suburban lifestyles.

Let me reiterate: I avoid taxis/uber like the plague. I'd actually rather pay more for limo service from airports, but it didn't occur to me to schedule that at LAS because it is literally next to the strip.
 
MaksFly
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:03 am

Jouhou wrote:
MaksFly wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Public transportation at LAS is pathetic. I'm from the northeast where every major city has extensive public transportation. At LAS I had to wait for a bus for 45 minutes. Then I had to switch busses to get to the strip. For an airport so close to the strip, that was absolutely pathetic. An airport 30 minutes away but with a direct rail connection would be light years ahead of the current set up.

Also US west: wtf is up with the lack of public transportation?!!!


OR....

You could have gotten Lyft/Uber within 30 seconds to 2 mins and been at your hotel for about $5, or taken an airport shuttle bus for about $5.

LAS has pretty good infrastructure and public transportation.

When 99% of the people visiting LAS are NOT going to take the regular Bus... and where the infrastructure is built around those 99%, complaining about it is akin to going to a an American steakhouse and complaining that the sushi is not great.


I'm pointing out that it's scaring off tourists. So maybe that 99% figure is true, but only because you aren't drawing in the high value tourists you want. You're drawing in people who fly allegiant, tip poorly, and are perfectly comfortable with their suburban lifestyles.

Let me reiterate: I avoid taxis/uber like the plague. I'd actually rather pay more for limo service from airports, but it didn't occur to me to schedule that at LAS because it is literally next to the strip.


Lack of bus service or train service from Las scaring tourists? HIGHLY doubt it., I travel all over for both business and family travels, anywhere new or existing I either 1. rent a car, or 2. uber/lyft/taxi. The ONLY places where I take "public" transportation is in areas where vehicle traffic is nuts, ie, NYC, Moscow, etc, where I take the subway if there is one.

I wager to think that the vast majority of people view taking the bus as the most miserable option... not only are you stuck on someone elses schedule, but you are still subject to the very same traffic that other vehicles get.

As far as limo service... in LAS you dont need to schedule it, just get your bag walk over to any limo counter and hop into a car in two mins... once again though, good for tourists but it is pointless as the airport is within 10 mins and quite frankly walking distance to many hotels.

Only reason to take buses in Las Vegas is that it is cheap, like $2 versus $5 to $10 for a Lyft/Uber.

Btw, Lyft and Uber do offer "Black" service, which is the same exact limo drivers.

Please don't get me wrong, I LOVE taking trains, and love airports where I can take train from there into city center, i.e. JFK/EWR/AMS/SVO.... but with LAS there is no freaking point. lol. and after a long flight there, do you really feel like going through, dragging your bags onto a bus with drunks.... or get private car service (UBER/Lyft) to your hotel and let people pamper you?

Edit: And I say this as someone who flies to Vegas 3 or 4 times a year at a minimum for business and fun, over the last 8 years. Routine is... Land, go to Amex Lounge, take a shower, eat, glass of wine, then either a. go to my driver (if picked up for business) or b. take shuttle to rental car counter. (which is already a drag). Only reason I get a rental car is because I PREFER to stay off of the strip at a non-gambling/smoking hotel... exceptions are of course for conference travel where all is paid and am not going to say no to Four Seasons, Wynn, Palazzo, Cosmopolitan.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:15 am

Jouhou wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Also US west: wtf is up with the lack of public transportation?!!!


The West was developed and continues to be developed with the idea of “wide open” spaces and “freedom”. MOST people do not move to Las Vegas, Phoenix, Salt Lake, Reno, Boise, etc to live an urban transit based lifestyle. I knew someone who moved to Phoenix with the main motivation being to have a 3100 square foot house instead of a 2000 square foot house in SoCal. They were a couple with no kids. lol. Americans and especially Westerners are all about size. Cars are also status symbols out here. On top of that when East Coast cities were developing cars didn’t exist.

Some of these places are making strides in transit. Salt Lake has a decent system considering how suburban it is. Coastal big cities have decent systems with the exception of LA, but most of those places still require a car unless you can afford to live near work.


It's weird because I've grown up to associate cars with wasting time in traffic and dying a horrible death in accidents. And yeah, some western cities are making an effort to have something, and San Francisco has always had a U.S. Northeast style system.

Maybe people from the West should come to a city like Boston and try driving for a few days and then try public transportation for the rest of the trip. The inefficient road layout of Boston will make anyone trying to navigate the city by car want to drive off the nearest bridge. When I ask people how they feel about Boston the people who hate it always tried driving a car in it.

To tie that in with my original point, for a city that relies so much on tourism, Las Vegas doesn't seem to understand what would make tourists from far flung places feel comfortable. The high spending chinese tourists cities covet come to mind. In China, a foreigner taking a taxi is a bad idea, they will overcharge you and possibly abduct you. The public transportation on the other hand puts ours to shame.


You’re wrong; public transportion is adequate for its users. Las Vegas has attempted bus service from the airport to the strip numerous times, but it didn’t last due to lack of ridership. While it’s reattempting limited service, the majority of bus service is headed into residential areas, as that’s where the primary users (airport employees) go.

Nationally, with few exceptions (e.g. NYC, urban Boston, etc.), public transportion is generally utilized by youth and persons who cannot afford a car. Even as the county has invested tens of billions into public transportation, national ridership continues to drop as more people are able to afford automobiles or alternatives (Lyft/Uber). Studies have shown that in excess of 80% the population says they’re not interested in public transportion, even if it were more convenient. So while you may characterize the system as a “joke,” the reality is that it is that way because quite frankly, we don’t want it.

As for China, I’ve been in hundreds of taxis. Yes, fake taxis exist but they’re there to rip you off, not kidnap you, and can be easily avoided if you enter a marked cab in a designated loading spot (common sense, really). I’ve never been ripped off in China, but have been here...
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
Raventech
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:21 am

Jouhou wrote:

I'm pointing out that it's scaring off tourists. So maybe that 99% figure is true, but only because you aren't drawing in the high value tourists you want. You're drawing in people who fly allegiant, tip poorly, and are perfectly comfortable with their suburban lifestyles.

Let me reiterate: I avoid taxis/uber like the plague. I'd actually rather pay more for limo service from airports, but it didn't occur to me to schedule that at LAS because it is literally next to the strip.


You got that backwards, "high value tourist" can afford and already expect to taxi, uber, limo, or just rent a car. "drawing in people who fly allegiant, tip poorly, and are perfectly comfortable with their suburban lifestyles" are ironically the people best helped and attracted by a great public transit system because they can least afford to uber everywhere. Your car phobia is not held by the majority of people even in a city like Boston.

I live in PHX and mass transit like in NYC or CHI will not happen for a long time because there is no great need. PHX and LAS are modern cities in that they are laid out and built up assuming almost everyone is using a car so for the marjority of people, mass transit would be inconvenient. Even in rush hour I can get from one side of the valley to the other in an 1.5 hours (~60 miles) versus when I was working in Chicago it was typically taking 1.5 hours to go ~20 miles and then good luck finding decent parking. Mass Transit in this case is a requirement.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:38 am

MaksFly wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
MaksFly wrote:

OR....

You could have gotten Lyft/Uber within 30 seconds to 2 mins and been at your hotel for about $5, or taken an airport shuttle bus for about $5.

LAS has pretty good infrastructure and public transportation.

When 99% of the people visiting LAS are NOT going to take the regular Bus... and where the infrastructure is built around those 99%, complaining about it is akin to going to a an American steakhouse and complaining that the sushi is not great.


I'm pointing out that it's scaring off tourists. So maybe that 99% figure is true, but only because you aren't drawing in the high value tourists you want. You're drawing in people who fly allegiant, tip poorly, and are perfectly comfortable with their suburban lifestyles.

Let me reiterate: I avoid taxis/uber like the plague. I'd actually rather pay more for limo service from airports, but it didn't occur to me to schedule that at LAS because it is literally next to the strip.


Lack of bus service or train service from Las scaring tourists? HIGHLY doubt it., I travel all over for both business and family travels, anywhere new or existing I either 1. rent a car, or 2. uber/lyft/taxi. The ONLY places where I take "public" transportation is in areas where vehicle traffic is nuts, ie, NYC, Moscow, etc, where I take the subway if there is one.

I wager to think that the vast majority of people view taking the bus as the most miserable option... not only are you stuck on someone elses schedule, but you are still subject to the very same traffic that other vehicles get.

As far as limo service... in LAS you dont need to schedule it, just get your bag walk over to any limo counter and hop into a car in two mins... once again though, good for tourists but it is pointless as the airport is within 10 mins and quite frankly walking distance to many hotels.

Only reason to take buses in Las Vegas is that it is cheap, like $2 versus $5 to $10 for a Lyft/Uber.

Btw, Lyft and Uber do offer "Black" service, which is the same exact limo drivers.

Please don't get me wrong, I LOVE taking trains, and love airports where I can take train from there into city center, i.e. JFK/EWR/AMS/SVO.... but with LAS there is no freaking point. lol. and after a long flight there, do you really feel like going through, dragging your bags onto a bus with drunks.... or get private car service (UBER/Lyft) to your hotel and let people pamper you?

Edit: And I say this as someone who flies to Vegas 3 or 4 times a year at a minimum for business and fun, over the last 8 years. Routine is... Land, go to Amex Lounge, take a shower, eat, glass of wine, then either a. go to my driver (if picked up for business) or b. take shuttle to rental car counter. (which is already a drag). Only reason I get a rental car is because I PREFER to stay off of the strip at a non-gambling/smoking hotel... exceptions are of course for conference travel where all is paid and am not going to say no to Four Seasons, Wynn, Palazzo, Cosmopolitan.


I've ordered black car service, waited for 20 minutes, and had them turn around and cancel when they were in my line of sight, I'm assuming because there were obnoxious drunks around (but I was sober). Needless to say I was NOT happy about that. That was around philly. It took 50 minutes to get someone else to come pick me up. There's also that stereotypical angry Russian taxi driver who wants to talk to you but then quickly gets enraged when they misinterpret one of your responses and you have to calm them down.

Also, @compensateme, to continue the taxis in the PRC thing, I had a taxi driver grab my luggage and throw it in his car while I'm yelling no no no no money. And he said "ok, ATM" and I'm yelling "No ATM" but I'm just a single woman and I had to go along with him if I wanted my luggage. Don't you try telling me taxis are safe in china. They aren't.

Edit: and maybe that's the difference. I feel a lot safer on public transportation than in a taxi, and maybe it's because I'm a woman. I don't feel safe with taxi drivers.
 
PHLCVGAMTK
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:23 am

lightsaber wrote:
WALmsp wrote:
I would hope that NV would be more efficient building a HSR than CA has been.

I wouldn't build HSR. Fast rail? Yes, but at most buy an off the shelf 200kph or at most 124mph. The distance is short enough. Going for 150+mph costs too much.

Lightsaber


200 km/h is probably sufficient for LA Basin-Las Vegas, but having the option to go faster would enable direct service from San Francisco, when CAHSR finally completes. And not to put too fine a point on it, but that's another 80+ air movements per day gone from LAS.

Speaking of fast rail to California, the company with the rights to build an HSR line along I-15 has just been bought by Brightline, the company that has just opened a private-sector fast rail service between West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, and Miami, with an onward connection to KMCO under construction. That might get HSR out of the vaporware stage.

https://www.railwayage.com/news/brightl ... peed-rail/
http://press.gobrightline.com/showPress ... /100055086
 
crownvic
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:10 am

compensateme wrote:
WALmsp wrote:
cschleic wrote:


Didn't the taxi industry fight any extension to the airport?


No. The monorail is a bust, with ridership levels nowhere close to projections. Although some still push for an airport extension, cost-benefit analysis continue to show that it wouldn’t make sense.

A couple could take a Lyft/Uber directly to their hotel for about the same price as the monorail; the monorail would require multiple stops, and often a long walk.


WALmsp is 100% correct. That is exactly what happened and the reason for the monorails failure was simply because the corrupt taxi industry that was operating in corrupt Clark County (the airports operator) had some monkey business going on. I lived in Vegas when it all went down and it made the news and newspapers everyday for many months. In recent years, the same thing happened with Uber. They came into Vegas, got kicked out (the taxi industry was behind this as well), but won a court order and were allowed back in. The taxi industry in Vegas does not have the revenue and the clout it once had. Had the monorail been built today, it would have started at the airport as it was originally intended to.
 
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ro1960
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:35 am

Let's keep LAS as it is and reach saturation so a.nutters can complain how cramped and obsolete is it in 5-10 year time. :roll:

Honestly, a 30-minute ride will keep passengers away from a new airport? Does a 60-minute ride take people away from JFK?
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RamblinMan
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:11 pm

Confuscius wrote:
RamblinMan wrote:
The fact that LAS is in the middle of the city is precisely why nobody will want to use a new facility with a 30 minute drive to the strip.

Let me just nitpick a bit. The city of Las Vegas starts north of Sahara Ave. and only the Stratosphere casino is located within its city limit. All the Strip casinos and McCarran airport are actually located in the unincorporated town of Paradise.


Thanks Professor Pedant... btw note that I said in the middle of "the city" not in "the middle of las vegas." I was, of course, referring to Paradise- you know, the place all the tourists are actually going.

All these posts saying to close down McCarran are laughable. For one, the airport will not be over capacity as quickly as some think. Traffic to LAS ebbs and flows with economic cycles, and in the next downturn it will be off 10% from what it is right now. Secondly, you can't "force" LCCs to use an alternate airport. You can raise the landing fees to make it less appealing and eventually somebody- probably G4- will move their operation to a secondary airport. But the Big 3 and WN will want to continue using the airport that their pax want to use.

Besides, what the hell kind of "aviation enthusiast" would want to do away with the views out the right-hand windows when on approach to the 19s?
 
RamblinMan
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:17 pm

ro1960 wrote:
Does a 60-minute ride take people away from JFK?


Yes. I usually exclude it from searches when booking a ticket to NYC. I'd exclude Ivanpah when searching Las Vegas.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:13 pm

RamblinMan wrote:
Confuscius wrote:
RamblinMan wrote:
The fact that LAS is in the middle of the city is precisely why nobody will want to use a new facility with a 30 minute drive to the strip.

Let me just nitpick a bit. The city of Las Vegas starts north of Sahara Ave. and only the Stratosphere casino is located within its city limit. All the Strip casinos and McCarran airport are actually located in the unincorporated town of Paradise.


Thanks Professor Pedant... btw note that I said in the middle of "the city" not in "the middle of las vegas." I was, of course, referring to Paradise- you know, the place all the tourists are actually going.

All these posts saying to close down McCarran are laughable. For one, the airport will not be over capacity as quickly as some think. Traffic to LAS ebbs and flows with economic cycles, and in the next downturn it will be off 10% from what it is right now. Secondly, you can't "force" LCCs to use an alternate airport. You can raise the landing fees to make it less appealing and eventually somebody- probably G4- will move their operation to a secondary airport. But the Big 3 and WN will want to continue using the airport that their pax want to use.

Besides, what the hell kind of "aviation enthusiast" would want to do away with the views out the right-hand windows when on approach to the 19s?


Although expensive as hell, but it’s a blast and an enjoyable challenge flying a small plane into McCarran. The views are awesome. The FBO provides a shuttle, and it’s a ten minute ride to most strip hotels. It’s worth the price to me.
 
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compensateme
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:36 pm

crownvic wrote:
compensateme wrote:
WALmsp wrote:

Didn't the taxi industry fight any extension to the airport?


No. The monorail is a bust, with ridership levels nowhere close to projections. Although some still push for an airport extension, cost-benefit analysis continue to show that it wouldn’t make sense.

A couple could take a Lyft/Uber directly to their hotel for about the same price as the monorail; the monorail would require multiple stops, and often a long walk.


WALmsp is 100% correct. That is exactly what happened and the reason for the monorails failure was simply because the corrupt taxi industry that was operating in corrupt Clark County (the airports operator) had some monkey business going on. I lived in Vegas when it all went down and it made the news and newspapers everyday for many months. In recent years, the same thing happened with Uber. They came into Vegas, got kicked out (the taxi industry was behind this as well), but won a court order and were allowed back in. The taxi industry in Vegas does not have the revenue and the clout it once had. Had the monorail been built today, it would have started at the airport as it was originally intended to.


That’s not accurate; while the taxi industry privately lobbied against the monorail project, it was never built with the intentions of serving the airport. We know this because in 2006, when Las Vegas approved the airport extension, the taxi industry leaked documents showing that when MGM was planning the monorail in the late 1990s/early 2000s, they concluded there would be insufficient traffic to justify the estimated $200M cost, and ongoing expenses, to connect it to the airport. By 2006, that number had risen to $400M-$500M, and daily ridership was barely over 10K - far below the initial 50K projected by MGM. 12 years later, ridership has grown only to 13K, which explains why the extension was never built. The project is a bust.

Remember, the monorail serves only select Strip properties on the East side. A couple isn’t going to pay $10 to ride the monorail to Bally’s, then spend 30+ minutes walking through the entire property, through the LV heat, across the street to the Bellagio, when they could’ve taken a Lyft/Uber for the same price.
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jetwet1
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:00 pm

WALmsp wrote:
Didn't the taxi industry fight any extension to the airport?


Yep

compensateme wrote:

No. The monorail is a bust, with ridership levels nowhere close to projections. Although some still push for an airport extension, cost-benefit analysis continue to show that it wouldn’t make sense.

A couple could take a Lyft/Uber directly to their hotel for about the same price as the monorail; the monorail would require multiple stops, and often a long walk.



The monorail ridership have nothing to do with the monorail not going to the airport and yes, I totally agree with the second part.

Jouhou wrote:
I'm pointing out that it's scaring off tourists. So maybe that 99% figure is true, but only because you aren't drawing in the high value tourists you want. You're drawing in people who fly allegiant, tip poorly, and are perfectly comfortable with their suburban lifestyles.

Let me reiterate: I avoid taxis/uber like the plague. I'd actually rather pay more for limo service from airports, but it didn't occur to me to schedule that at LAS because it is literally next to the strip.


Huh ?

What ?

You've lost me, 10 years ago the average room rate in Las Vegas was $99, this year it is $150, spending on food is even more dramatic and the number of tourists coming to Vegas in the last 7 years has gone up by 9 million, so yeah, it's not really doing a good job of scaring off tourists.

MaksFly wrote:
Lack of bus service or train service from Las scaring tourists? HIGHLY doubt it., I travel all over for both business and family travels, anywhere new or existing I either 1. rent a car, or 2. uber/lyft/taxi. The ONLY places where I take "public" transportation is in areas where vehicle traffic is nuts, ie, NYC, Moscow, etc, where I take the subway if there is one.



Totally agree, other than London or Paris where a train really is easy, I stick to uber/lyft. Even in New York where the train connection is pretty good out of JFK I prefer to take a car and get an hours work done.


compensateme wrote:
You’re wrong; public transportion is adequate for its users. Las Vegas has attempted bus service from the airport to the strip numerous times, but it didn’t last due to lack of ridership. While it’s reattempting limited service, the majority of bus service is headed into residential areas, as that’s where the primary users (airport employees) go.


Let me say this, there are a fleet of mini buses running between the airport and the hotels, they are cheap, clean and safe, but they can take a long time to get anywhere.

crownvic wrote:

WALmsp is 100% correct. That is exactly what happened and the reason for the monorails failure was simply because the corrupt taxi industry that was operating in corrupt Clark County (the airports operator) had some monkey business going on.


He is somewhat correct, the taxi firms had a big hand in the monorail not going out to the airport, however, they really didn't have a lot to do with the failure of it, that is more down to design, it's a pain in the butt to use, you have to walk long distances at most of the hotels it serves and in the end, it really doesn't serve that many places. When it comes down to it, say you are staying at the Mirage, by the time you get to a station, wait for a train, make the journey to the convention center, it's just quicker to hop in an Uber/taxi.

Back on topic.....

Where would they put the station to serve the new airport ?

With the current (and past history) of the planners, they would park it by Red Rock or Sam Boyd, the station needs to be center strip and that would just be to expensive, then you have the headache of having to get from the station to the hotels/homes, can it be done well, sure, but the cost is going to be huge.

EDIT : I see that compensateme posted while I was making my reply, what he says is from memory pretty accurate, I would like to add however, other hotels were approached to have spurs added to connect them to the main line, but the costs were insane, the thing needed to run down the middle of the strip with elevated stations at every hotel, the choice of using the MGM-Bally's line meant it never stood a chance.
Last edited by jetwet1 on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
evank516
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:00 pm

airtrantpa wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
timpdx wrote:
Why would they give up on their biggest asset: minutes to the Strip? There isn't a large US airport closest to its biggest asset than LAS.


Um. BOS. It's actually in the city it serves.


How about SAN?


JFK and LGA are both technically in NYC as well, just not Manhattan.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:37 pm

According to the Wikipedia article, the proposed Ivanpah airport site is "5 miles southwest of the Jean airport." That, from Google mapping, would be about a 40 mile drive from the Strip.

DEN is 24.6 miles to downtown Denver. The infamous Montreal Mirabel airport is 31 miles from downtown Montreal.

Are they serious? Who on earth would want to use an Ivanpah valley airport? With so much empty land around, they really can't do better than that as a proposed location?

Jim
Last edited by DCA-ROCguy on Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jetwet1
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:38 pm

The problem with all that empty land is it's either owned by land developers or the federal government.
 
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ro1960
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:10 pm

RamblinMan wrote:
ro1960 wrote:
Does a 60-minute ride take people away from JFK?


Yes. I usually exclude it from searches when booking a ticket to NYC. I'd exclude Ivanpah when searching Las Vegas.


I'm sure you put a big dent in JFK's 60M pax traffic. McCarran may close so you could take the train to LAS to avoid the new airport I guess.
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jeffh747
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:19 pm

timpdx wrote:
Why would they give up on their biggest asset: minutes to the Strip? There isn't a large US airport closest to its biggest asset than LAS.

MIA is just minutes from downtown Miami.
FLL is next door to one of its biggest assets in Port Everglades, which accounts for a considerable amount of traffic, especially in the winter.
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:36 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
timpdx wrote:
Why would they give up on their biggest asset: minutes to the Strip? There isn't a large US airport closest to its biggest asset than LAS.


The main reason people are willing to give that up is price. If it's expensive to fly into the old (current) Las Vegas airport and cheaper to fly into the new airport, that could be a reason for people to go there. Specially on LCCs that could be a big thing.

Here in Europe lots of LCCs use secondary airports that are further outside the city instead of expensive primary airports close to the city. Paris Beauvais, Milan Bergamo, Oslo Sandefjord-Torp, Dusseldorf Weeze, Warsaw Modlin, to name a few. And always there are cheap transfers available between the airport and the city, mostly on PlusAirportLine. It takes some time, but so what? If that saves you money it's worth it.

The current Las Vegas airport cannot grow, however if they can transfer some LCCs that are currently using it to the new airport this frees up capacity for other airlines at the main airport.


But a whole new airport won't be inexpensive. They have to pay for everything. All the examples you have for further out low cost airports are mostly for old converted military airports that have added passenger terminals. They already have a working airfield that was paid for long ago. A new airport would also require upgrades to highways connecting it to the city.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:02 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
But a whole new airport won't be inexpensive. They have to pay for everything. All the examples you have for further out low cost airports are mostly for old converted military airports that have added passenger terminals. They already have a working airfield that was paid for long ago. A new airport would also require upgrades to highways connecting it to the city.


But so is the case at Ivanpah Valley. There is an airport there called Jean. Allright, the runway needs to be lenghtened and a platform and terminal needs to be built, but that doesn't cost that much. Most of the infrastructure is already in place, there's a highway passing along the airport. It can be built rather cheap.

It's located 32 miles from the center of Las Vegas, a bus can drive that in half an hour. That's not too bad, is it?
 
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compensateme
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:25 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
flyingclrs727 wrote:
But a whole new airport won't be inexpensive. They have to pay for everything. All the examples you have for further out low cost airports are mostly for old converted military airports that have added passenger terminals. They already have a working airfield that was paid for long ago. A new airport would also require upgrades to highways connecting it to the city.


But so is the case at Ivanpah Valley. There is an airport there called Jean. Allright, the runway needs to be lenghtened and a platform and terminal needs to be built, but that doesn't cost that much. Most of the infrastructure is already in place, there's a highway passing along the airport. It can be built rather cheap.

It's located 32 miles from the center of Las Vegas, a bus can drive that in half an hour. That's not too bad, is it?


Uh, as I mentioned earlier, LAS is already $4B in debt from recent expansion projects. What do you consider to be “cheap?” Even expanding Jean to position it as a local reliever — building a new terminal complex, adding adequate support facilities (fuel, catering, cargo and all that fun stuff, adding parking, adding rental car facilities, etc. would cost a few billions. Modifying Jean so that LAS could close would cost over $10B easily.
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questions
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:35 pm

jetwet1 wrote:


He is somewhat correct, the taxi firms had a big hand in the monorail not going out to the airport, however, they really didn't have a lot to do with the failure of it, that is more down to design, it's a pain in the butt to use, you have to walk long distances at most of the hotels it serves and in the end, it really doesn't serve that many places. When it comes down to it, say you are staying at the Mirage, by the time you get to a station, wait for a train, make the journey to the convention center, it's just quicker to hop in an Uber/taxi.

...the thing needed to run down the middle of the strip with elevated stations at every hotel...


Spot on. Poor planning.

It’s amazing how masterful Las Vegas establishments are in getting tons of people in and out — airport, hotels, restaurants, events, etc. However, from a planning perspective, Las Vegas Blvd, aka, The Strip, is a mess. In the 1980’s, prior to the opening of The Mirage, and the explosive growth of mega resorts that followed, planners should have designed a wider, more efficient Strip for cars, buses, rail and pedestrians. A rail line (monorail, light rail, etc) running from LAS to downtown would have been optimal. Today Las Vegas has an inefficient patchwork of monorails and trams and the crowded Deuce that travels the overly crowded Strip.
 
WN732
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:37 pm

johnboy wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

Also US west: wtf is up with the lack of public transportation?!!!


Huh?

Warm regards,
San Francisco.


The BART only does so much. SJC has horrible transit options when trying to get to BART or CalTrain, etc...

LAX is barely now addressing that issue. BUR is lucky with a Metrolink/Amtrak station at the field. ONT, SAN, LGB, SMF, SNA, and SJC can only be accessed by bus transfers. Most of those cities have rail service in some fashion.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:29 pm

questions wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:


He is somewhat correct, the taxi firms had a big hand in the monorail not going out to the airport, however, they really didn't have a lot to do with the failure of it, that is more down to design, it's a pain in the butt to use, you have to walk long distances at most of the hotels it serves and in the end, it really doesn't serve that many places. When it comes down to it, say you are staying at the Mirage, by the time you get to a station, wait for a train, make the journey to the convention center, it's just quicker to hop in an Uber/taxi.

...the thing needed to run down the middle of the strip with elevated stations at every hotel...


Spot on. Poor planning.

It’s amazing how masterful Las Vegas establishments are in getting tons of people in and out — airport, hotels, restaurants, events, etc. However, from a planning perspective, Las Vegas Blvd, aka, The Strip, is a mess. In the 1980’s, prior to the opening of The Mirage, and the explosive growth of mega resorts that followed, planners should have designed a wider, more efficient Strip for cars, buses, rail and pedestrians. A rail line (monorail, light rail, etc) running from LAS to downtown would have been optimal. Today Las Vegas has an inefficient patchwork of monorails and trams and the crowded Deuce that travels the overly crowded Strip.


Has any thought ever been given to building a *subway* underneath the strip? All hotels could be connected with underground moving walkways. The traffic in Vegas is awful. Driving the strip used to be a fun thing, now even with the scenery it is pure torture.
 
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ER757
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:28 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
As long as airports make a revenue off of automobile parking, you'll never see any decent public transportation to the terminal in the U.S. short of the hourly service to get a few workers there.

CTA has a light rail station in the terminal at ORD
Sound Transit has a light rail station at the terminal in SEA
Both go to downtown in those cities in less than 30 minutes

I'd call both of them "decent public transportation"
 
RamblinMan
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:46 pm

ro1960 wrote:
RamblinMan wrote:
ro1960 wrote:
Does a 60-minute ride take people away from JFK?


Yes. I usually exclude it from searches when booking a ticket to NYC. I'd exclude Ivanpah when searching Las Vegas.


I'm sure you put a big dent in JFK's 60M pax traffic. McCarran may close so you could take the train to LAS to avoid the new airport I guess.


More realistically, if a trip to Vegas starting involving time-consuming and expensive transfers to and from an airport in the middle of nowhere, I and many others may simply decide not to go. But as many others have said, McCarran will not be closing anytime soon so I don't see that being a problem.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:57 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
It's located 32 miles from the center of Las Vegas, a bus can drive that in half an hour. That's not too bad, is it?


Again, the problem is, unless there is no traffic, you cannot do a bus (with hotel pick up) to Jean in 30 minutes, as it is now there are times the 15 is gridlock, throw x number of buses to move 40+ million people from the airport to the strip and forget it....Though there would be a huge market for helicopter charters from Jean to the hotels.

questions wrote:

It’s amazing how masterful Las Vegas establishments are in getting tons of people in and out — airport, hotels, restaurants, events, etc. However, from a planning perspective, Las Vegas Blvd, aka, The Strip, is a mess. In the 1980’s, prior to the opening of The Mirage, and the explosive growth of mega resorts that followed, planners should have designed a wider, more efficient Strip for cars, buses, rail and pedestrians. A rail line (monorail, light rail, etc) running from LAS to downtown would have been optimal. Today Las Vegas has an inefficient patchwork of monorails and trams and the crowded Deuce that travels the overly crowded Strip.


In the '80's nobody saw the huge growth in the Vegas market, heck in '86 there were 56,500 hotel rooms in Vegas, 20 years later there were 132,600.

To put it a different way, back in 1992 Kirk Kerkorian bought 18 acres of land at the nw corner of Trop and Lv Blvd for $31.5m....Today that land would be worth around $620m.....

Also at the time we didn't have these huge gaming companies, for the most part each property was individually owned, so each sort to create their own little kingdom.

AirFiero wrote:

Has any thought ever been given to building a *subway* underneath the strip? All hotels could be connected with underground moving walkways. The traffic in Vegas is awful. Driving the strip used to be a fun thing, now even with the scenery it is pure torture.


Yep, there are a few issues......

Who is going to pay for it ? Clark County doesn't have that type of $$$$

There are two major fault lines running parallel to the strip, nothing that can't be engineered around, but still an added layer.

Flash floods, same as above, until the last 5-10 years our monsoon season created some pretty serious floods every year, even now the strip can flood pretty easily, flood waters + subways don't mix well, ask Paris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LlDSI0cEr8

In hindsight, sure everything could have been laid out better, but at the time it worked well for everyone.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:41 pm

Leave it to Las Vegas to take a huge gamble on a new airport. It sounds like there are no plans to close McCarran if/when Ivanpah opens, since the latter will be a "supplement" to the existing LAS. Ivanpah would, of course, be a huge inconvenience for the throngs of tourists eager to spend as much time (and money) in places like downtown Las Vegas and the Strip as they can. I don't even think Ivanpah would save time for people seeking to avoid the city/metropolitan area altogether, e.g. those headed to Death Valley or the Grand Canyon.

I think it's great to see a major U.S. city taking a proactive approach to aviation growth. However, this is a country where people *still* complain about DEN being so far outside the city. DC perpetually struggles to get people inside the Beltway to use IAD. New Yorkers adamantly prefer LGA to JFK; SWF has plenty of room to support Tri-State Area aviation growth but is simply out of the question for most travelers. LA relinquished control of not just oft-discussed ONT but also PMD (decades ago this remote desert facility that has absolutely no commercial air service today was planned to become a major intercontinental airport serving Greater Los Angeles) in recent years. Deep in the Florida Everglades the intrepid traveler might find the sleepy Dade-Collier Training and Transition Airport (TNT), the remnants of the failed "Everglades Jetport" project that was envisioned to become a supersonic gateway to South and Southwest Florida. Absent the full closure of McCarran, I find it hard to believe that Ivanpah airport would amount to anything more than something like PMD or SWF...
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HPRamper
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:00 pm

HVNandrew wrote:
Plans to shut down an airport that is very convenient to the city it serves and forcing people to instead use an alternative airport in a remote location far from the city center generally are not well received - ask Montrealers. If plans for Ivanpah go forward I could see a similar result playing out as Mirabel in the 80s/90s - certain flights being forced to use the airport, but LAS remaining the preferred airport in the region for flights that are still allowed to move through there.

Unless Vegas pulls a Denver and simply shuts the old one down. That's why DEN is the success story that Mirabel was not.
 
cschleic
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:23 pm

ER757 wrote:
Coronado990 wrote:
As long as airports make a revenue off of automobile parking, you'll never see any decent public transportation to the terminal in the U.S. short of the hourly service to get a few workers there.

CTA has a light rail station in the terminal at ORD
Sound Transit has a light rail station at the terminal in SEA
Both go to downtown in those cities in less than 30 minutes

I'd call both of them "decent public transportation"


Perhaps a higher ticket price as with BART at SFO to support the cost. It goes right to the international terminal.

Sound Transit doesn't go to the SEA terminal, it's on the other side of the garage and a bit of a hike, but at least all connected. PDX's light rail goes into the terminal as do ATL and DCA.
 
KAUST
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:41 pm

airtrantpa wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
timpdx wrote:
Why would they give up on their biggest asset: minutes to the Strip? There isn't a large US airport closest to its biggest asset than LAS.


Um. BOS. It's actually in the city it serves.


How about SAN?



Ditto with (honorable?) mention to DCA and PHX.

KAUST
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Las Vegas New Airport (Ivanpah Valley)

Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:49 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
Again, the problem is, unless there is no traffic, you cannot do a bus (with hotel pick up) to Jean in 30 minutes, as it is now there are times the 15 is gridlock, throw x number of buses to move 40+ million people from the airport to the strip and forget it....Though there would be a huge market for helicopter charters from Jean to the hotels.


But that was never the intention. It's meant as a relief airport, not a replacement for the current airport. A secondary airport for Las Vegas, handling mostly low-cost traffic. The majority of traffic will remain where it is, the second airport is only to top it off. It'll never handle 40 million people.

The thing is that Las Vegas keeps growing, but the current airport is at it's max. It can't handle more than let's say 50 million people. But one day there'll be demand for 60 million people. Then the new airport can handle the 10 million people that the current airport can't handle. Those 10 million people won't be using it overnight, it'll grow slowly but you need to be prepared for that growth.

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