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SFODXBFRALHRBLR
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Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:02 am

Are there any expansion plans at SFO other than the T1 redevelopment? I also know about the planned Boarding Area H at the IT, but all this doesn’t seem like much considering SFO’s growth rate, and the rapid expansion at other major airports such as ORD, JFK, LHR, SIN, HKG. Also, might SFO also add a 5th runway?
Why do I like the A380 so much?
 
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SFOA380
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:06 am

No new runways. Current runway configuration along with terminal expansions will allow SFO to grow to around 80 million pax. OAK and SJC have multi-billion dollar expansion studies of their own. When it gets to that point we’ll see SFO take on a role similar to that of JFK...
 
simpv
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:17 am

This site has all of the recommended improvements to SFO. It was adopted in 2016, and has information about expansions, terminal development, etc.
https://www.flysfo.com/about-sfo/sfo-to ... -plan-2016
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:20 am

SFOA380 wrote:
No new runways. Current runway configuration along with terminal expansions will allow SFO to grow to around 80 million pax. OAK and SJC have multi-billion dollar expansion studies of their own. When it gets to that point we’ll see SFO take on a role similar to that of JFK...


Good grief...80 million passengers per year at SFO!
 
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intotheair
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:21 am

The new control tower is finished, T1 is being fully rebuilt, and the new hotel is under construction.

T1 is going to take a while, but after that, the master plan calls for Boarding Area H to be built along with the eventual redevelopment and expansion of the rest of T3.

https://www.flysfo.com/about-sfo/sfo-to ... r-terminal
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:05 am

SFOA380 wrote:
No new runways. Current runway configuration along with terminal expansions will allow SFO to grow to around 80 million pax. OAK and SJC have multi-billion dollar expansion studies of their own. When it gets to that point we’ll see SFO take on a role similar to that of JFK...


I’m not sure what would be changing at that point. It’s not like people’s Bay Area flight preferences will suddenly make a big change. I don’t see a LGA type situation emerging. OAK already has solid domestic service, but nothing unique over SFO. If anything I think we will continue to see larger jets out of SFO which has already happened to some extent.
 
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Chasensfo
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:38 am

In a nut shell:

T1 will open allowing for a total of 6-7 A380s to park on the A-terminal/T1 at once(gates A1, A5, A9, and A11 will all be A380 capable in addition to 3 T1 gates). The ramp between A term and T1 will be widened when the old T1 rotunda currently in use for WN is demolished, and widebody jets will be able to pass. Currently, 1 widebody or 2 narrowbodys(757 non-winglet and smaller) can pass between A term and T1. It is possible that even 2 A380s will be able to pass. When the first part of construction is finished, some of the gates will be blocked by the Southwest rotunda, including the new A380 gates. The current M2 and M1 lines will be spread further apart so that 2 A380s can pass, and possibly a 3rd narrow body only line will be added between them. Southwest will move to T1, as will American, Frontier, jetBlue, Westjet, Sun Country, and possibly Hawaiian Air but that is unconfirmed. This will free up all of T2 for Alaska, and free up many slots on the A-terminal for new flights in addition to what will be possible with the T1 gates that will have customs access. Gate A10 is closed right now being re-fitted to accommodate A330s and 787s, nothing bigger than a 763 could use gate A10 before. Once A10 is completed, A12 will close for months to be rebuilt to the same standard. The VSR has already been repainted around A terminal as the ramp area has extend out to beyond the former McDonnell Road. This will allow 777-300ERs to park on gate A8 when the A10 construction is done, which will alleviate ground holds giving more options to 777 carriers, and the former A18/19 remote stands will be expanded into A13/A14/A15, allowing for 3 wide body or 5 narrowbody jets to be parked for remote parking and boarding/deboarding via bus. This will hopefully cut down on Qantas and other carriers towing across the airport against traffic during peak departure banks.

The area of T3 between T3 and G terminal(gates 72-75) will be rebuilt similar to the way gates 68-71 were. The gates, which currently can only fit aircraft as big as a 737-900, will be converted into "swing" gates that will fit widebodies or 2 narrow bodies. Air Canada will have 2 of these gates dedicated to them, meaning they can have 2 777/787s or 4 CRJ/A320/737s on the gates. This will free up a signfigigant amount of space at G term, where Air Canada is the second biggest tenant. Gate G91, hard stands G103/104/105, and the United Cargo and other buildings in the area will be closed and a new arm of the G-concourse, dubbed Concourse H, will be built to accommodate 4-5 international gates. This will congest the alleyway and get rid of the "holding area" for aircraft that have no gates, but hopefully will alleviate some of that aircraft.

The "SFO" water tanks will be demolished, making way for a few more(very much needed) remote spots at Plot 41.

So basically, SFO is going to gain a lot of potential gate capacity(especially international) in the next 5+ years. However, there will ultimately be less remote parking, especially on the South side of the airport, as well as the same number of runways and taxiways to cram everybody on. There is a proposal for the airport to buy the United MOC(maintenance center) and turn it into a "North Terminal". That would be a total mess, so let's hope it stays a rumor. Lol.
 
questions
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:40 am

http://media.flysfo.com.s3.amazonaws.co ... ojects.pdf

I had not noticed the new Boarding Area H before!

It will be nice when the improvements to Boarding Area C (Delta) are finally completed.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:54 am

SFODXBFRALHRBLR wrote:
Also, might SFO also add a 5th runway?


SFODXBFRALHRBLR wrote:
I want to land an A380 at Lukla.


You know, I’m honestly not sure which of these is more likely to happen...

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:21 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
SFODXBFRALHRBLR wrote:
Also, might SFO also add a 5th runway?
SFODXBFRALHRBLR wrote:
I want to land an A380 at Lukla.

You know, I’m honestly not sure which of these is more likely to happen.

Oh that's easy-- the latter.

......no hippie protesters would be laying down on the runway, at Lukla. :duck:
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
727200
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:40 pm

It is great that SFO is adding all these new gates in anticipation of additional flights. But until the environmental wackos and the NIMBY mentality changes, the airport which restricts flights daily and hasnt built a new runway, will still be a mess. But it sure will look pretty and new.
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:06 pm

San Francisco with a runway? Good luck with that proposal....
 
gwrudolph
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:59 pm

I do look forward to the expansion and renovations. Some of those terminals (like the United T3 area)look just awful. What they’ve done in T2 and T3 low 60’s gates is just beautiful. SFO lets their facilities go way to far, but when they finally get around to re-doing them, they are fantastic!
 
deebee278
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:44 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
SFODXBFRALHRBLR wrote:
Also, might SFO also add a 5th runway?
SFODXBFRALHRBLR wrote:
I want to land an A380 at Lukla.

You know, I’m honestly not sure which of these is more likely to happen.

Oh that's easy-- the latter.

......no hippie protesters would be laying down on the runway, at Lukla. :duck:


Ha, I love you all! Having being born and raised in California, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that no new runways will ever be built in 'Cali', let alone an airport.
 
as739x
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:38 pm

[code][/code]
gwrudolph wrote:
I do look forward to the expansion and renovations. Some of those terminals (like the United T3 area)look just awful. What they’ve done in T2 and T3 low 60’s gates is just beautiful. SFO lets their facilities go way to far, but when they finally get around to re-doing them, they are fantastic!


F concourse will also get refreshed in time. With the frontal gate project and the swing gate upcoming (gates 72-75), there is difficulty with available gate space for upcoming projects. Give it time and it will look very sharp!!
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
SonomaFlyer
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:06 pm

727200 wrote:
It is great that SFO is adding all these new gates in anticipation of additional flights. But until the environmental wackos and the NIMBY mentality changes, the airport which restricts flights daily and hasnt built a new runway, will still be a mess. But it sure will look pretty and new.


You speak as if that is a Cali or SFO only phenomena. This is an issue at every airport pretty much everywhere save airports built in the middle of nowhere. There is no "nowhere" on the California coast anymore, certainly not in the Bay Area.

As much as I agree that SFO could use another runway and/or reconfig the runway separation, its never going to happen. You'll see VTOL civilian aircraft or Captain Kirk's shuttle fly by first.

There are three airports around the Bay. A regional approach will eventually need to be used to sort it out or simply impose slots such as happens at LHR and deal with it that way. The advent of improved tech will decrease the need for separation and increase capacity which will include low visibility times which plagues SFO often.
 
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SFODXBFRALHRBLR
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:37 am

727200 wrote:
It is great that SFO is adding all these new gates in anticipation of additional flights. But until the environmental wackos and the NIMBY mentality changes, the airport which restricts flights daily and hasnt built a new runway, will still be a mess. But it sure will look pretty and new.

What about a 5th runway on stilts like HND?
Why do I like the A380 so much?
 
B752OS
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:09 am

SFODXBFRALHRBLR wrote:
727200 wrote:
It is great that SFO is adding all these new gates in anticipation of additional flights. But until the environmental wackos and the NIMBY mentality changes, the airport which restricts flights daily and hasnt built a new runway, will still be a mess. But it sure will look pretty and new.

What about a 5th runway on stilts like HND?


That's not going to happen.

Unless you're a airport like say DEN, which is in the middle of nowhere and has a ton of space, getting new runways built is usually going to be a challenge. At an airport like SFO it's going to be pretty much impossible.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:43 am

washingtonflyer wrote:
San Francisco with a runway? Good luck with that proposal....


There is a slow, but steady shift of attitude around development in the Bay Area. It won’t change overnight but I suspect there will be an opportunity to build a runway down the road.
 
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SFODXBFRALHRBLR
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:54 am

Chasensfo wrote:
The "SFO" water tanks will be demolished, making way for a few more(very much needed) remote spots at Plot 41.

Wait, where ARE the water tanks?

Chasensfo wrote:
There is a proposal for the airport to buy the United MOC(maintenance center) and turn it into a "North Terminal". That would be a total mess, so let's hope it stays a rumor. Lol.

How would that be a mess? Can't the AirTrain be extended, it's not that far?
Why do I like the A380 so much?
 
master14225
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:50 am

Wow 80 million pax capacity for SFO, well that's not that far away with them having 55 million pax just last year and pax growing at an average of 5-6% annually. I think in the long run for pacific gateway demand for Asia & Australia to USA & Canada, airport's like YVR and SEA need to take the extra demand from airports like SFO and LAX which will give those airports more opportunity to grow as pacific gateway megahubs like SFO and LAX.
 
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Chasensfo
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:30 pm

SFODXBFRALHRBLR wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
The "SFO" water tanks will be demolished, making way for a few more(very much needed) remote spots at Plot 41.

Wait, where ARE the water tanks?

Chasensfo wrote:
There is a proposal for the airport to buy the United MOC(maintenance center) and turn it into a "North Terminal". That would be a total mess, so let's hope it stays a rumor. Lol.

How would that be a mess? Can't the AirTrain be extended, it's not that far?

-The 3 water tanks are in front of the "Superbay" hangar along runway 28R and are a popular backdrop to photos on this site, they say "SFO" across them. In older photos, you can see they were rotting away and rusted as can be before the refresh.

-The AirTrain is the least of your worries, think pavement. As it is RIGHT NOW, before terminal H and the new T1 open, there are commonly peak periods where planes take 45-75 minutes from calling to push to being cleared for takeoff. A rouge cloud drifts between the San Mateo Bridge and the 28s and suddenly the arrival rate is slashed, and flights are not only delayed but often diverted or cancelled, all on clear blue days just because of the backlog during the "low visbility".

Now, imagine SFO with 30+ more gates(and planes holding for those gates as you know the airport would utilize them 100% within 1-2 years), but the same number of taxiways and runways as we have now.

You're gonna have a bad(well...worse) time flying SFO with a "North Terminal". :)

SFOtoORD wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
San Francisco with a runway? Good luck with that proposal....


There is a slow, but steady shift of attitude around development in the Bay Area. It won’t change overnight but I suspect there will be an opportunity to build a runway down the road.

I agree 100% as a native. As more and more people move out of the Bay Area and wealthy and often young/travel savvy people take their place, I can see them saying "Screw the Bay I want to get home on time" and throwing in the towel for concessions. But that is decades away, if ever. But a bay runway would totally change most of the operational issues that SFO faces overnight.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:53 pm

SFOtoORD wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
San Francisco with a runway? Good luck with that proposal....


There is a slow, but steady shift of attitude around development in the Bay Area. It won’t change overnight but I suspect there will be an opportunity to build a runway down the road.


Whether or not that is true, it's just unnecessary. There's no reason to build more on the bay when further growth can be accommodated at OAK and SJC. SFO is going to get slots and then further growth will be accommodated through upguaging and growth at OAK and SJC. Ensuring that people in Redding and Arcata can connect on little planes in a timely fashion at one of the largest airports in the country just doesn't justify the lift (political, environmental, financial) to build new runways on the bay.
 
atcpeter
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:58 pm

They're also considering tearing down the United GSE building and GateGourmet facilities off of west field road. Then Twys A and B south of B1 could shift westward, so the end of Concourse F could extend westward and add a few gates. Not sure how realistic that plan is, though.
 
AA747123
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:48 pm

There is no room anywhere to build a 5th runway. When T1 is complete around 2021 or so, I understand AA will move over to T1 with a total of 5 gates and AS will take all of T2
 
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CarlosSi
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:08 pm

Chasensfo wrote:
In a nut shell:

T1 will open allowing for a total of 6-7 A380s to park on the A-terminal/T1 at once(gates A1, A5, A9, and A11 will all be A380 capable in addition to 3 T1 gates). The ramp between A term and T1 will be widened when the old T1 rotunda currently in use for WN is demolished, and widebody jets will be able to pass. Currently, 1 widebody or 2 narrowbodys(757 non-winglet and smaller) can pass between A term and T1. It is possible that even 2 A380s will be able to pass. When the first part of construction is finished, some of the gates will be blocked by the Southwest rotunda, including the new A380 gates. The current M2 and M1 lines will be spread further apart so that 2 A380s can pass, and possibly a 3rd narrow body only line will be added between them. Southwest will move to T1, as will American, Frontier, jetBlue, Westjet, Sun Country, and possibly Hawaiian Air but that is unconfirmed. This will free up all of T2 for Alaska, and free up many slots on the A-terminal for new flights in addition to what will be possible with the T1 gates that will have customs access. Gate A10 is closed right now being re-fitted to accommodate A330s and 787s, nothing bigger than a 763 could use gate A10 before. Once A10 is completed, A12 will close for months to be rebuilt to the same standard. The VSR has already been repainted around A terminal as the ramp area has extend out to beyond the former McDonnell Road. This will allow 777-300ERs to park on gate A8 when the A10 construction is done, which will alleviate ground holds giving more options to 777 carriers, and the former A18/19 remote stands will be expanded into A13/A14/A15, allowing for 3 wide body or 5 narrowbody jets to be parked for remote parking and boarding/deboarding via bus. This will hopefully cut down on Qantas and other carriers towing across the airport against traffic during peak departure banks.

The area of T3 between T3 and G terminal(gates 72-75) will be rebuilt similar to the way gates 68-71 were. The gates, which currently can only fit aircraft as big as a 737-900, will be converted into "swing" gates that will fit widebodies or 2 narrow bodies. Air Canada will have 2 of these gates dedicated to them, meaning they can have 2 777/787s or 4 CRJ/A320/737s on the gates. This will free up a signfigigant amount of space at G term, where Air Canada is the second biggest tenant. Gate G91, hard stands G103/104/105, and the United Cargo and other buildings in the area will be closed and a new arm of the G-concourse, dubbed Concourse H, will be built to accommodate 4-5 international gates. This will congest the alleyway and get rid of the "holding area" for aircraft that have no gates, but hopefully will alleviate some of that aircraft.

The "SFO" water tanks will be demolished, making way for a few more(very much needed) remote spots at Plot 41.

So basically, SFO is going to gain a lot of potential gate capacity(especially international) in the next 5+ years. However, there will ultimately be less remote parking, especially on the South side of the airport, as well as the same number of runways and taxiways to cram everybody on. There is a proposal for the airport to buy the United MOC(maintenance center) and turn it into a "North Terminal". That would be a total mess, so let's hope it stays a rumor. Lol.

That’s one helluva nutshell!
 
birdbrainz
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:12 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
SFODXBFRALHRBLR wrote:
Also, might SFO also add a 5th runway?
SFODXBFRALHRBLR wrote:
I want to land an A380 at Lukla.

You know, I’m honestly not sure which of these is more likely to happen.

Oh that's easy-- the latter.

......no hippie protesters would be laying down on the runway, at Lukla. :duck:


So true...
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
birdbrainz
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:44 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:
washingtonflyer wrote:
San Francisco with a runway? Good luck with that proposal....


There is a slow, but steady shift of attitude around development in the Bay Area. It won’t change overnight but I suspect there will be an opportunity to build a runway down the road.


Whether or not that is true, it's just unnecessary. There's no reason to build more on the bay when further growth can be accommodated at OAK and SJC. SFO is going to get slots and then further growth will be accommodated through upguaging and growth at OAK and SJC. Ensuring that people in Redding and Arcata can connect on little planes in a timely fashion at one of the largest airports in the country just doesn't justify the lift (political, environmental, financial) to build new runways on the bay.


Exactly how many slots are you going to be able to free up by moving those flights to SJC? SFO needs a parallel runway in the bay about as badly as LHR needs its own new runway. The problem is that simultaneous ILS approaches on the 28's just aren't possible at SFO. If you could do those, you might be able to make a case for not building another runway. I'm always amused that when the fog rolls in, SFO has no more landing capacity than my home airport of GSO (Greensboro).

Btw, SJC is completely boxed in, and for most of the bay area, one airport is vastly easier to use than the other. Yes, it can grow, but long term you're going to need all three airports to get a lot bigger.
A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
 
shantahan
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:48 pm

master14225 wrote:
Wow 80 million pax capacity for SFO, well that's not that far away with them having 55 million pax just last year and pax growing at an average of 5-6% annually. I think in the long run for pacific gateway demand for Asia & Australia to USA & Canada, airport's like YVR and SEA need to take the extra demand from airports like SFO and LAX which will give those airports more opportunity to grow as pacific gateway megahubs like SFO and LAX.


While that would be nice, I do not think SEA and YVR are not good candidates as relievers for SFO / LAX in the near future.

SEA - from what I hear it's already over capacity and doesn't have any room for expansion.

YVR will not likely ever serve as a suitable reliever for US origin/destination demand, just because it's not in the US.

For Asia-Pacific gateways, I think the US3 will have to route more people via other, less geographically suitable but more expandable hubs, like the Midwest hubs (ORD/DFW/IAH/DEN) possibly.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:15 pm

birdbrainz wrote:
SFO needs a parallel runway in the bay about as badly as LHR needs its own new runway. The problem is that simultaneous ILS approaches on the 28's just aren't possible at SFO. If you could do those, you might be able to make a case for not building another runway. I'm always amused that when the fog rolls in, SFO has no more landing capacity than my home airport of GSO (Greensboro).

The real question is how long will it be before advances in GNSS-based technology and its application on aircraft allows simultaneous instrument approaches on runways separated by 750ft. It wouldn’t solve issues around taxiing aircraft across active runways, but it would at least allow parallel runway operations.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
ucdtim17
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:49 pm

birdbrainz wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:
SFOtoORD wrote:

There is a slow, but steady shift of attitude around development in the Bay Area. It won’t change overnight but I suspect there will be an opportunity to build a runway down the road.


Whether or not that is true, it's just unnecessary. There's no reason to build more on the bay when further growth can be accommodated at OAK and SJC. SFO is going to get slots and then further growth will be accommodated through upguaging and growth at OAK and SJC. Ensuring that people in Redding and Arcata can connect on little planes in a timely fashion at one of the largest airports in the country just doesn't justify the lift (political, environmental, financial) to build new runways on the bay.


Exactly how many slots are you going to be able to free up by moving those flights to SJC? SFO needs a parallel runway in the bay about as badly as LHR needs its own new runway. The problem is that simultaneous ILS approaches on the 28's just aren't possible at SFO. If you could do those, you might be able to make a case for not building another runway. I'm always amused that when the fog rolls in, SFO has no more landing capacity than my home airport of GSO (Greensboro).

Btw, SJC is completely boxed in, and for most of the bay area, one airport is vastly easier to use than the other. Yes, it can grow, but long term you're going to need all three airports to get a lot bigger.


I don't expect SJC to get any new runways, but it certainly looks like there's plenty of room for terminal expansion to the north and south of existing terminals. There's plenty of existing runway capacity as is. Same with OAK - plenty of existing runway capacity and lots of room for terminal expansion.
 
master14225
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:00 pm

YVR has US preclearance so it shouldn't be a problem at all. It could be like YYZ where a lot of people use it to travel to the US instead of regular US hubs like JFK and ORD. YVR is also the fastest way to get from Australia to New York City. People much prefer using Canadian hubs to enter the US than directly going to the US.

shantahan wrote:
master14225 wrote:
Wow 80 million pax capacity for SFO, well that's not that far away with them having 55 million pax just last year and pax growing at an average of 5-6% annually. I think in the long run for pacific gateway demand for Asia & Australia to USA & Canada, airport's like YVR and SEA need to take the extra demand from airports like SFO and LAX which will give those airports more opportunity to grow as pacific gateway megahubs like SFO and LAX.


While that would be nice, I do not think SEA and YVR are not good candidates as relievers for SFO / LAX in the near future.

SEA - from what I hear it's already over capacity and doesn't have any room for expansion.

YVR will not likely ever serve as a suitable reliever for US origin/destination demand, just because it's not in the US.

For Asia-Pacific gateways, I think the US3 will have to route more people via other, less geographically suitable but more expandable hubs, like the Midwest hubs (ORD/DFW/IAH/DEN) possibly.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:31 am

ucdtim17 wrote:
birdbrainz wrote:
ucdtim17 wrote:

Whether or not that is true, it's just unnecessary. There's no reason to build more on the bay when further growth can be accommodated at OAK and SJC. SFO is going to get slots and then further growth will be accommodated through upguaging and growth at OAK and SJC. Ensuring that people in Redding and Arcata can connect on little planes in a timely fashion at one of the largest airports in the country just doesn't justify the lift (political, environmental, financial) to build new runways on the bay.


Exactly how many slots are you going to be able to free up by moving those flights to SJC? SFO needs a parallel runway in the bay about as badly as LHR needs its own new runway. The problem is that simultaneous ILS approaches on the 28's just aren't possible at SFO. If you could do those, you might be able to make a case for not building another runway. I'm always amused that when the fog rolls in, SFO has no more landing capacity than my home airport of GSO (Greensboro).

Btw, SJC is completely boxed in, and for most of the bay area, one airport is vastly easier to use than the other. Yes, it can grow, but long term you're going to need all three airports to get a lot bigger.


I don't expect SJC to get any new runways, but it certainly looks like there's plenty of room for terminal expansion to the north and south of existing terminals. There's plenty of existing runway capacity as is. Same with OAK - plenty of existing runway capacity and lots of room for terminal expansion.


You’ve embedded an assumption that demand for OAK and SJC flights will grow faster than SFO, but I’m not sure that is the case. If there were great yields to be found at OAK I think you’d see note airlines growing there. SFO will have to address capacity at some point whatever the solution may be.
 
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Re: Expansion At SFO

Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:36 am

shantahan wrote:
master14225 wrote:
Wow 80 million pax capacity for SFO, well that's not that far away with them having 55 million pax just last year and pax growing at an average of 5-6% annually. I think in the long run for pacific gateway demand for Asia & Australia to USA & Canada, airport's like YVR and SEA need to take the extra demand from airports like SFO and LAX which will give those airports more opportunity to grow as pacific gateway megahubs like SFO and LAX.


While that would be nice, I do not think SEA and YVR are not good candidates as relievers for SFO / LAX in the near future.

SEA - from what I hear it's already over capacity and doesn't have any room for expansion.

YVR will not likely ever serve as a suitable reliever for US origin/destination demand, just because it's not in the US.

For Asia-Pacific gateways, I think the US3 will have to route more people via other, less geographically suitable but more expandable hubs, like the Midwest hubs (ORD/DFW/IAH/DEN) possibly.


SEA is a mess right now, sure. But, more gates are being constructed through the expansion of the north satellite for AS, and the new international arrivals facility on the south end of the airport. Longer term, some of the cargo areas could be demolished for more terminal space.

What will help relieve traffic in SEA and SFO is if an airport like PDX can grow to accommodate larger number of passengers and subsequently attract more airlines for TPAC service. The D Concourse today handles the international flights, but it's small by comparison to SEA and SFO. There is some speculation that a Chinese carrier may start PEK-PDX at some point, as well as KE starting PDX-ICN as part of their JV with DL.

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