Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
n471wn
Topic Author
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:57 pm

It appears that Turkmenistan is sending a 2005 built (#55186) to EGPB to be scrapped which would be the first 717 (other than the prototype) to be scrapped. Very odd that neither Delta nor Hawaiian would not be interested in a late model 717 with few hours and cycles.
 
777Mech
Posts: 991
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:59 pm

n471wn wrote:
It appears that Turkmenistan is sending a 2005 built (#55186) to EGPB to be scrapped which would be the first 717 (other than the prototype) to be scrapped. Very odd that neither Delta nor Hawaiian would not be interested in a late model 717 with few hours and cycles.


Delta has purchased the Turk 717 assets and will be parting them out creating a spares pool.
 
burnsie28
Posts: 5290
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 1:49 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:22 pm

From my understanding there are many questionable issues with the Turk 717s that would possibly prevent it from being put into service. Wasn't there some corrosion questions before?
 
Yflyer
Posts: 1731
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:05 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:52 pm

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I remember the issue with the Turk 717s is that the paperwork on them is incomplete. So even if they were in perfection condition (which is rather unlikely) if they can't prove that all the required maintenance was done on them then they can't legally be put into service. I assume that doesn't prevent them from being purchased for parts, though.
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3669
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:09 pm

Indeed, DMS (Delta Material Services) has been shopping around 717 parts as of late
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20253
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:17 pm

I'm surprised it took this long to part these examples. The condition of the aircraft and paper was rumored poor for a long time.

It would be cheaper for DL to buy more A220-100 than fly these. As everyone has noted, these are parts donors.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
tomaheath
Posts: 628
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:43 pm

Parton my ignorance but don’t a lot of the airframe parts and engines need paperwork for last maintenance and hours flown?
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 999
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:51 pm

Flightradar24 showed EZ-A106 fly from Minsk (Belarus) to Cotswold Airport (Kemble, U.K.) yesterday. It was almost four hours in the air.
 
n471wn
Topic Author
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:42 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
Flightradar24 showed EZ-A106 fly from Minsk (Belarus) to Cotswold Airport (Kemble, U.K.) yesterday. It was almost four hours in the air.



Not a bad “death flight”—-4 hours!
 
KICT
Posts: 815
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:50 pm

tomaheath wrote:
Parton my ignorance but don’t a lot of the airframe parts and engines need paperwork for last maintenance and hours flown?

The questionable parts will be inducted into repair as required and re-certified.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 3148
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:51 pm

tomaheath wrote:
Parton my ignorance but don’t a lot of the airframe parts and engines need paperwork for last maintenance and hours flown?

A lot of the harvested components will go through a shop visit before they see an airplane again. That will make them serviceable. For the entire airframe that is hard to do to make sure it is airworthy from a records standpoint. For the airframe I suspect the doors and flight control surfaces will be saved. Most of the wing and fuselage structure will be scrapped. Any structural part that has been drilled, will not be able to be reused on another plane.
 
B757Forever
Posts: 887
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 3:23 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:54 pm

tomaheath wrote:
Parton my ignorance but don’t a lot of the airframe parts and engines need paperwork for last maintenance and hours flown?



Many of the parts DL is after (cowlings, fairings, gear doors, flight controls etc) can be used after a detailed visual inspection or an inspection per the CMM. Other parts (components such as valves, actuators etc) can be routed through a shop for a full overhaul. Some parts (engine internals, some landing gear parts) are unusable without full records.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9038
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:58 pm

I remember from several years ago in discussions regarding the DC10 that many parts at Douglas were custom-drilled and therefore not easily-transferable from one aircraft to another. I'm a little hazy on this. Anyone understand what I'm saying, and is that correct? Was this handled differently on the 717 (being a Douglas product and all)?
 
tomaheath
Posts: 628
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:16 pm

Thank you for the info.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20253
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:31 pm

KICT wrote:
tomaheath wrote:
Parton my ignorance but don’t a lot of the airframe parts and engines need paperwork for last maintenance and hours flown?

The questionable parts will be inducted into repair as required and re-certified.

I'll rephrase, there is an approved rebuild/repair process for most parts. Some of the most expensive parts are in the engine and if the FADAQ can be read, cycle life will be determined.

Gear, valves, ans actuators will be rebuilt as will the engines as that is the only way to be safe. Note: I projected, it is possible the engines are never re-assembled too.

It should be possible to determine life for items never replaced. Anything with ambiguous use gets rebuilt or scrapped. There is no middle ground.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
User avatar
kitplane01
Posts: 1523
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:58 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:32 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
tomaheath wrote:
Parton my ignorance but don’t a lot of the airframe parts and engines need paperwork for last maintenance and hours flown?

Any structural part that has been drilled, will not be able to be reused on another plane.


Can you explain more about this please?
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20253
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:36 pm

wjcandee wrote:
I remember from several years ago in discussions regarding the DC10 that many parts at Douglas were custom-drilled and therefore not easily-transferable from one aircraft to another. I'm a little hazy on this. Anyone understand what I'm saying, and is that correct? Was this handled differently on the 717 (being a Douglas product and all)?

The DC-10s had many match fit parts. There are far fewer such parts on the 717 outside of the structure. The basic structure is doomed. It is the piece parts (windows, actuators, engines/nacelles and removable surfaces). About half the value is the engines. But hey, need a fuel level meter? Have we got a bargain on a rebuilt unit... Spare landing gear in the rebuild pipeline is always a plus.

Millions of dollars of aluminum will become beercan. :spit:

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 3148
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:14 pm

wjcandee wrote:
I remember from several years ago in discussions regarding the DC10 that many parts at Douglas were custom-drilled and therefore not easily-transferable from one aircraft to another. I'm a little hazy on this. Anyone understand what I'm saying, and is that correct? Was this handled differently on the 717 (being a Douglas product and all)?

Same is true for Boeing and at least the older Airbus. Once a structural part like a frame or stringer is installed in an airplane it can not be removed and installed in another. The holes for the fasteners, weather they are hilocks, or rivets do not line up. All of these parts were hand drilled during production and while the spacing looks even, it is not once you try to mate used parts together. I've seen brand new parts from Boeing and Douglas that had factory pilot holes in them that would not line up with the existing factory holes in the mating part.

Another matter is corrosion. Once you start really digging in an older airframe you will find the grey dust. It just is not worth the effort to try and harvest these parts. The raw stock to make these parts is pretty cheap.
 
777Mech
Posts: 991
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:39 am

From what I hear DMS is particularly after the landing gear sets. The main gear is different from from -88s and 90s, and IIRC the main gear on the 717 is the same as on a DC-9-3, and that tooling is long gone, so now DL is having to do some repair development to get to overhaul these components.

The nose gear is the same across all DC-9/MD80 series.
 
User avatar
MassAppeal
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:58 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:50 am

777Mech wrote:
n471wn wrote:
It appears that Turkmenistan is sending a 2005 built (#55186) to EGPB to be scrapped which would be the first 717 (other than the prototype) to be scrapped. Very odd that neither Delta nor Hawaiian would not be interested in a late model 717 with few hours and cycles.


Delta has purchased the Turk 717 assets and will be parting them out creating a spares pool.


How long does the average scrapped plane "feed" a fleet before another needs to be sacrificed?
 
B757Forever
Posts: 887
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 3:23 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:01 am

MassAppeal wrote:
777Mech wrote:
n471wn wrote:
It appears that Turkmenistan is sending a 2005 built (#55186) to EGPB to be scrapped which would be the first 717 (other than the prototype) to be scrapped. Very odd that neither Delta nor Hawaiian would not be interested in a late model 717 with few hours and cycles.


Delta has purchased the Turk 717 assets and will be parting them out creating a spares pool.


How long does the average scrapped plane "feed" a fleet before another needs to be sacrificed?


That's not quite how it works. A list of parts to be harvested is developed, those parts are pulled and warehoused, the rest gets scrapped. The parts are then pulled from storage as needed.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
wrongwayup
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:01 am

777Mech wrote:
From what I hear DMS is particularly after the landing gear sets. The main gear is different from from -88s and 90s, and IIRC the main gear on the 717 is the same as on a DC-9-3, and that tooling is long gone, so now DL is having to do some repair development to get to overhaul these components.

The nose gear is the same across all DC-9/MD80 series.


A set of landing gear is the third most valuable component set on the aircraft, but it's a distant third to #s 1 & 2 - the engines - which are an order of magnitude more valuable! Depends on maintennace condition of course - time since overhaul on the gear versus time since overhaul and LLP lives remaining in the engines.
 
777Mech
Posts: 991
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:39 am

wrongwayup wrote:
777Mech wrote:
From what I hear DMS is particularly after the landing gear sets. The main gear is different from from -88s and 90s, and IIRC the main gear on the 717 is the same as on a DC-9-3, and that tooling is long gone, so now DL is having to do some repair development to get to overhaul these components.

The nose gear is the same across all DC-9/MD80 series.


A set of landing gear is the third most valuable component set on the aircraft, but it's a distant third to #s 1 & 2 - the engines - which are an order of magnitude more valuable! Depends on maintennace condition of course - time since overhaul on the gear versus time since overhaul and LLP lives remaining in the engines.


Right. This was especially true for the MD-90 program, and the 717 is following right in its footsteps. The only difference is DL is overhauling the 715 and they aren't really hurting for parts on that engine.

This leaves me to suspect the OEM for the landing gear isn't delivering what DL wants in regards to overhauling the gear. Who the OEM is? I dont have a clue.
 
danipawa
Posts: 477
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:15 pm

Boeing 717-200 55187 5147 EZ-A107 Turkmenistan Airlines ferried 03oct18 KRW-ADB-EGBP after storage, for part-out & scrap
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4705
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:26 pm

Since this is A.net, it should be pointed out the airframe referred to in the original post was actually the SECOND 717 scrapped, as the prototype was broken up at Long Beach way back in 2005.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
User avatar
RobK
Posts: 3717
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:43 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:44 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Since this is A.net, it should be pointed out the airframe referred to in the original post was actually the SECOND 717 scrapped, as the prototype was broken up at Long Beach way back in 2005.


...which was already stated in the opening post, had you bothered to read the thread first. :roll:
 
QANTAS747-438
Posts: 1739
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2001 7:01 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:51 pm

How much can an airline benefit from using one frame as a scrap pool? There are only so much of each thing: 2 inboard flaps, 1 tail jackscrew, etc
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
81819
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:13 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:13 am

I think it gives an airline a parts pool. For instance a refurb if a part may take six weeks. Having a parts pool means parts Froman aeroplane re simply swapped out with a part from the parts pool. The part removed from the plane is sent out for refurb and than added back into the parts pool. Delta would look at their 717 maintenance schedule, the parts required and their cost and evaluate that against the cost of scraping aeroplanes and stocking the refurbed parts.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2492
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:28 am

tomaheath wrote:
Parton my ignorance but don’t a lot of the airframe parts and engines need paperwork for last maintenance and hours flown?


I see what you did there 8-)
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
User avatar
SEPilot
Posts: 5635
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:40 am

777Mech wrote:
wrongwayup wrote:
777Mech wrote:

This leaves me to suspect the OEM for the landing gear isn't delivering what DL wants in regards to overhauling the gear. Who the OEM is? I dont have a clue.

I suspect that the OEM is Goodrich Aerospace. In 1987-1988 I was in charge of designing a family of three grinding machines for Cleveland Pneumatics, which at that time was manufacturing all the landing gear for Boeing and McDonnell-Douglas. The smallest was strictly for military planes, as it was too small for airliners. The second was the first one designed, and the test strut for it was the MD-80 main gear. The largest was over 30 feet long, and the test strut for it was the 747 nose gear (which at the time was the longest strut they made. But I believe it was long enough for the 777 struts, even though they had not been conceived at this time). Cleveland Pneumatic was later acquired by Goodrich. The machines that were originally in Cleveland (they bought two sets of the smaller two machines, one set going to Tullahoma, TN) including the largest one went to their plant in Oakville, Ontario after they closed the Cleveland plant. I saw one of the machines being overhauled about three years ago; they are still being used. Seeing how difficult it is to change suppliers for major components like landing gear I suspect that Goodrich supplied them for the 717.

Just an aside; before they got the machines I designed they took between 7 and 9 hours to grind a MD-80 strut. When they got these machines they did it in about 30 minutes.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
stratclub
Posts: 1372
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:38 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:17 am

tomaheath wrote:
Parton my ignorance but don’t a lot of the airframe parts and engines need paperwork for last maintenance and hours flown?

What happens with parts is they are sent to overhaul, are essentially zero timed and are sold with an FAA 8130-3 AIRWORTHINESS APPROVAL TAG from an FAA approved Repair Station as a certified and airworthy part. Having history records on the part isn't really a requirement. If you were to sell engines in an as removed condition, you would need meticulous records on them to have any chance of hanging them on a wing without an overhaul shop visit and an 8130-30 form.
 
danipawa
Posts: 477
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:46 pm

another one:

Boeing 717-200 55153 5072 EZ-A101 Turkmenistan Airlines ferried 12oct18 KRW-ADB-EGBP after storage, for part-out & scrap
 
bennett123
Posts: 9795
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:16 pm

Kemble has EZ-A101, EZ-A102, EZ-A106 and EZ-A107.

What has happened to EZ-A103, EZ-A104 and EZ-A105.

Where they scrapped in Turkmenistan?.
 
User avatar
CarlosSi
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:29 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:44 pm

Knew it had to be Turkmenistan; maybe it was the relatively small fleet size? They’re better as parts if it means the rest of the 717 fleet can fly reliably with parts available, rather than spreading parts out thin.
 
citationjet
Posts: 2550
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:26 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:49 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Since this is A.net, it should be pointed out the airframe referred to in the original post was actually the SECOND 717 scrapped, as the prototype was broken up at Long Beach way back in 2005.


I believe that this was pointed out in the OP.

n471wn wrote:
It appears that Turkmenistan is sending a 2005 built (#55186) to EGPB to be scrapped which would be the first 717 (other than the prototype) to be scrapped.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
aviatorcraig
Posts: 566
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:14 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:31 pm

The question here is WHY are these birds missing vital details in their documentation?
If Turkmenistan has operated these aircraft from day one, why have they not taken care of their investment. Would they not be more valuable as flying, ready to go passenger carrying aircraft instead of parts donors? I can't understand why they have not kept better records.
707 727 Caravelle Comet Concorde Dash-7 DC-9 DC-10 One-Eleven Trident Tristar Tu-134 VC-10 Viscount plus boring stuff!
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:53 pm

Why? It's a -stan. The land of very elastic regulations... and inspections.
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6691
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:53 pm

I feel old,I toured EZ-A105 before it was delivered in LGB in 2004.
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
jagraham
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:17 pm

:checkmark:
stratclub wrote:
tomaheath wrote:
Parton my ignorance but don’t a lot of the airframe parts and engines need paperwork for last maintenance and hours flown?

What happens with parts is they are sent to overhaul, are essentially zero timed and are sold with an FAA 8130-3 AIRWORTHINESS APPROVAL TAG from an FAA approved Repair Station as a certified and airworthy part. Having history records on the part isn't really a requirement. If you were to sell engines in an as removed condition, you would need meticulous records on them to have any chance of hanging them on a wing without an overhaul shop visit and an 8130-30 form.


:checkmark:
 
smartplane
Posts: 1521
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:57 pm

The 717 used market, and parts too, is underpinned by one operator - DL.

DL buys parts strategically, while others tend to buy as needed.

DL is today the equivalent of what Kelowna was for the CV580 in the 60's, 70's and 80's, except they are not keen to sell complete aircraft, and parts are not cheap.

Boeing did a dis-service to 717 operators by selling most parts to DL.

Owner wouldn't take DL's price for the complete aircraft, but they will end up taking DL's price for most of the parts.
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4705
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:44 pm

citationjet wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
Since this is A.net, it should be pointed out the airframe referred to in the original post was actually the SECOND 717 scrapped, as the prototype was broken up at Long Beach way back in 2005.


I believe that this was pointed out in the OP.

n471wn wrote:
It appears that Turkmenistan is sending a 2005 built (#55186) to EGPB to be scrapped which would be the first 717 (other than the prototype) to be scrapped.

Which RobK already pointed out 2 months ago, but thanks for the timely help dude.
The last of the famous international playboys
 
juliuswong
Posts: 2021
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:37 am

- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
bennett123
Posts: 9795
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: First 717 Being Scrapped

Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:27 am

All four are still at Kemble @ Mid March.

Of the four, 106 is the furthest progressed, and now lacks outer wings and undercarriage.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos