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Boof02671
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:45 pm

They tried CLT-HNL, it failed.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:35 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
They tried CLT-HNL, it failed.


To be fair that was USAirways that tried it. With the broader network of the new AA, maybe it could work. It was also quite some time ago and the market may have grown sufficiently.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:58 pm

DL has "educated" the SE about nonstops to Hawaii. DL has in the past 18 months rapidly inflated fares on its n/s (1.5x to 1.9x in discounted F vs. AA to the SE). I think CLT/HNL would definitely work today, and would have feed from all over the SE (other than ATL) for a n/s. AND AA would have better hard product... 772 vs. 764.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:31 pm

What does CLT-HNL add that is not already covered by DFW-HNL?

Basically nothing.

Not happening...
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:45 pm

With what equipment did US fly CLT-HNL? I remember when they previously tried it, they occasionally had to stop for refueling during the winter months flying westbound.
 
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787fan8
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:56 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
With what equipment did US fly CLT-HNL? I remember when they previously tried it, they occasionally had to stop for refueling during the winter months flying westbound.

IIRC, I believe US used the 767 on the route when they tried it. I could be wrong on that though.
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CV880
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:19 pm

IIRC US used a 762 which continually had to make fuel stops in PHX or LAX to make it over the Pacific (due to headwinds). With better equipment it may work as the draw is pretty much the same as connex via ATL. Sure DFW can absorb much of the traffic but does that make it one or two stop service when the originating point doesn't have service to DFW.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:41 pm

The unfortunate issue with all this is that AA is fleet constrained, especially in the widebody space. 787's coming online are really only replacing outgoing aircraft.

The post about CLT-AMS is intriguing.

What about domestic...any obvious holes people see there?
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:14 am

usflyer msp wrote:
What does CLT-HNL add that is not already covered by DFW
?

Network Planning 101, as follows.

A one-stop is not a non-stop. O&D from Charlotte metro area is not O&D from Dallas metro area.

More importantly, feed to CLT and feed to DFW from the East Coast, esp. the SE, Mid-Atl, and NE, are different, so a CLT/HNL nonstop would change many two-stops (esp. the unconnected East Coast dots in the DFW view) to HNL into one-stops, and those most of those East Coast dots that are connected to both DFW and CLT have higher frequency to CLT.

https://aa.fltmaps.com/en | Destinations | Non-Stops

Therefore, CLT/HNL provides a significant opportunity to move a chunk of DL's ATL/HNL traffic to CLT, which traffic would not consider a two-stop via DFW.
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:28 am

TWFlyGuy wrote:
The unfortunate issue with all this is that AA is fleet constrained, especially in the widebody space. 787's coming online are really only replacing outgoing aircraft.

The post about CLT-AMS is intriguing.

What about domestic...any obvious holes people see there?


CLT-COU (Columbia MO) and CLT-ICT are two that I could see eventually happening. CLT-CMI was always one I thought should be added and its finally starting this December. Maybe also CLT-SPI and CLT-FSD?
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:53 am

WPvsMW wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
What does CLT-HNL add that is not already covered by DFW
?

Network Planning 101, as follows.

A one-stop is not a non-stop. O&D from Charlotte metro area is not O&D from Dallas metro area.

More importantly, feed to CLT and feed to DFW from the East Coast, esp. the SE, Mid-Atl, and NE, are different, so a CLT/HNL nonstop would change many two-stops (esp. the unconnected East Coast dots in the DFW view) to HNL into one-stops, and those most of those East Coast dots that are connected to both DFW and CLT have higher frequency to CLT.

https://aa.fltmaps.com/en | Destinations | Non-Stops

Therefore, CLT/HNL provides a significant opportunity to move a chunk of DL's ATL/HNL traffic to CLT, which traffic would not consider a two-stop via DFW.


They are in the process of connecting the larger CLT/ORD-only cities to DFW, which is a much better plan than a CLT-HNL n/s.

CLT's O/D to HNL is negligible (and is probably going to fly AA anyway no matter what the routing is). The CLT-exclusive connecting markets probably have a combined 30 PDEW to HNL.

CLT-HNL would add very little benefit to the network for all the expense.
 
TWFlyGuy
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:00 pm

The only thing I could see CLT-HNL adding is to take connecting traffic off of DFW at lower cost since CLT has a much lowe CPE. There could be some benefit there.
 
GSP psgr
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:16 pm

As far as future narrowbody int'l destinations from CLT:

YVR (summer seasonal, cruise traffic)
LIM (connect to LATAM's hub there)
MTY (automotive traffic?)
KEF (pre-emptive strike against WOW and FI)
CUR (weekend beach traffic?)
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:58 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
What does CLT-HNL add that is not already covered by DFW
?

Network Planning 101, as follows.

A one-stop is not a non-stop. O&D from Charlotte metro area is not O&D from Dallas metro area.

More importantly, feed to CLT and feed to DFW from the East Coast, esp. the SE, Mid-Atl, and NE, are different, so a CLT/HNL nonstop would change many two-stops (esp. the unconnected East Coast dots in the DFW view) to HNL into one-stops, and those most of those East Coast dots that are connected to both DFW and CLT have higher frequency to CLT.

https://aa.fltmaps.com/en | Destinations | Non-Stops

Therefore, CLT/HNL provides a significant opportunity to move a chunk of DL's ATL/HNL traffic to CLT, which traffic would not consider a two-stop via DFW.


They are in the process of connecting the larger CLT/ORD-only cities to DFW, which is a much better plan than a CLT-HNL n/s.

CLT's O/D to HNL is negligible (and is probably going to fly AA anyway no matter what the routing is). The CLT-exclusive connecting markets probably have a combined 30 PDEW to HNL.

CLT-HNL would add very little benefit to the network for all the expense.


Agreed that CLT is predominately connections.
I'm sure the network and fleet planners at AA are chewing on how to grow ORD and CLT (and catchment gaps, e.g. northwest of PHX), that's their jobs. Another part of their job is to read our posts on a.nut and chuckle or groan. The planners always have a mental routine running of "how to we outsmart UA at ORD", but there's another routine running of "how do we exploit CLT's geography to pull ATL's feed to CLT?" 30 AA PDEW ex-CLT (if that is the case) is not "all PDEW ex-CLT's catchment", because most of those several hundred PDEW in CLT's catchment are now on DL.

Also, the difference in hard product is hugely important to premium traffic, and premium traffic is often the profit margin.

By analogy, two months ago, which would have appeared more likely, HA starting HNL/BOS or AA starting HNL/CLT?
 
USPIT10L
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:53 pm

AA flies CLTCUR. It started last year, IINM.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
ahj2000
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:14 pm

USPIT10L wrote:
AA flies CLTCUR. It started last year, IINM.

Yep. Insel is no longer at CLT though.
GSP psgr wrote:
As far as future narrowbody int'l destinations from CLT:

YVR (summer seasonal, cruise traffic)
LIM (connect to LATAM's hub there)
MTY (automotive traffic?)
KEF (pre-emptive strike against WOW and FI)
CUR (weekend beach traffic?)

I'd potentially add Bogotá to that, with maybe a PTY less than daily/seasonal.
Could a return to MAN be possible? Somehow it seems that AA is weaker in MAN than US was...

CIDFlyer wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
The unfortunate issue with all this is that AA is fleet constrained, especially in the widebody space. 787's coming online are really only replacing outgoing aircraft.

The post about CLT-AMS is intriguing.

What about domestic...any obvious holes people see there?


CLT-COU (Columbia MO) and CLT-ICT are two that I could see eventually happening. CLT-CMI was always one I thought should be added and its finally starting this December. Maybe also CLT-SPI and CLT-FSD?

COS added to that.
-Andrés Juánez
 
GSP psgr
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:37 am

CIDFlyer wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
The unfortunate issue with all this is that AA is fleet constrained, especially in the widebody space. 787's coming online are really only replacing outgoing aircraft.

The post about CLT-AMS is intriguing.

What about domestic...any obvious holes people see there?


CLT-COU (Columbia MO) and CLT-ICT are two that I could see eventually happening. CLT-CMI was always one I thought should be added and its finally starting this December. Maybe also CLT-SPI and CLT-FSD?


South Texas: Delta doesn't do ATL-HRL/BRO/MFE. I wonder if AA might bite from CLT
SNA: I've often wondered how a daily 319/320 would do.
ELP: Leveraging AA's Texas strengths. Maybe a daily CR9?
HOU: As a supplement to CLT-IAH.
CSG/ACT: AA does a lot of military markets, and CSG is home to Fort Benning; ACT to Fort Hood.
SCE: Pennsylvania's ex-USAir country, maybe a daily CR2?
 
jplatts
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:02 am

GSP psgr wrote:
CSG/ACT: AA does a lot of military markets, and CSG is home to Fort Benning; ACT to Fort Hood.


GRK is actually much closer to Fort Hood than ACT is, and AA also already serves GRK with nonstop service to its main DFW hub from GRK.
 
panam330
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:09 am

A reintroduction of CLT-EGE/JAC wouldn't hurt, IMO. As someone upthread also said, CLT-COS as well - certainly doable with an E75.
 
WN732
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Re: CLT Update Discussion Thread

Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:59 am

TWFlyGuy wrote:
mikejepp wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Yes. The master plan calls for the crosswind to be decommissioned in the future.


Crazy that they're planning on just extending B and C when walk times from one end of one to the other are already quite long and the current concourses are very narrow for the amount of traffic / lack moving walkways. Is this really a practical solution?

I know some proposals showed the demolition of both B and C and the construction of a new, modern, mid-field concourse. Seems like that would be much more ideal for space, speed of connections, taxiway flow, etc.


There are terminal renovations planned to widen the concourses. Google Destination CLT and you can navigate to their page covering all the projects. It's pretty cool. Even has a neat video showing the construction process. I think the driver behind just extending the terminals is cost. CLT is by far the lowest cost hub and the way for them to remain a hub is to be the lowest cost (only SLC has a smaller population with a hub). My guess is that when they looked at the cost of an all new pretty terminal, they couldn't get buy in from the airlines. This gets them to approximately the same number of gates ATL has today I believe which should leave a lot of room for growth as there's a lot of opportunity to upgauge on a lot of CLT flights.



I did not realize that CLT was that large. Wow.
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: CLT Update Discussion Thread

Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:51 pm

WN732 wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:


I did not realize that CLT was that large. Wow.


It’s a pretty big airport- and the worlds 3rd largest airline hub by a single airline behind Delta at Atlanta and AA at DFW. AA has close to 700 daily flights, seeing the amount of flag tails there lined up to take off is pretty impressive
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:59 pm

GSP psgr wrote:
CIDFlyer wrote:
TWFlyGuy wrote:
The unfortunate issue with all this is that AA is fleet constrained, especially in the widebody space. 787's coming online are really only replacing outgoing aircraft.

The post about CLT-AMS is intriguing.

What about domestic...any obvious holes people see there?


CLT-COU (Columbia MO) and CLT-ICT are two that I could see eventually happening. CLT-CMI was always one I thought should be added and its finally starting this December. Maybe also CLT-SPI and CLT-FSD?


South Texas: Delta doesn't do ATL-HRL/BRO/MFE. I wonder if AA might bite from CLT
SNA: I've often wondered how a daily 319/320 would do.
ELP: Leveraging AA's Texas strengths. Maybe a daily CR9?
HOU: As a supplement to CLT-IAH.
CSG/ACT: AA does a lot of military markets, and CSG is home to Fort Benning; ACT to Fort Hood.
SCE: Pennsylvania's ex-USAir country, maybe a daily CR2?


All good candidates as well. I’d also throw CRP in there as well. DL tried a lot of these but backed out mainly due to the weakness in coverage in Texas but AA would have a good shot since it’s a major player there and would give some more options in a different direction. I think AA used to do CSG from
DFW but perhaps it would be better served by CLT. I’ve always been a little surprised SCE didn’t have a CLT flight definitely think that is do able.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:13 pm

CIDFlyer wrote:

All good candidates as well. I’d also throw CRP in there as well. DL tried a lot of these but backed out mainly due to the weakness in coverage in Texas but AA would have a good shot since it’s a major player there and would give some more options in a different direction. I think AA used to do CSG from DFW but perhaps it would be better served by CLT.


Yes, it's somewhat surprising to me that AA hasn't at least tried CLT-CSG. You're right that they did fly DFW-CSG briefly pre-bankruptcy, when they were targeting military-focused markets like CSG. But it's a tough market with ATL just up the road (albeit a really boring drive up the "world's longest cul-de-sac," I-185).
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:03 pm

Hello,
This is my first proper post and as my username implies I can't think of a better thread to start with. I'd like to touch on some points I've seen here in no particular order.

The New Concourse A

Gate Usage
United: A21, A23, A25, A27 (sometimes A29 but that's neither here nor there).
Air Canada: A29.
Frontier: A28.
Southwest: A26, A24.
jetBlue: A22.

Notes:
Southwest usually RONs 3 aircraft with one on a hardstand until the first departure.
United RONs up to 9 aircraft with 5 on gates and 4 on hardstands until the originators begin to leave.

Delta And The Old Concourse A
Delta currently resides on the old concourse A. Gates A1-A13 are currently closed for renovation construction which means Delta currently use gates A2-A12. Once the renovations are complete Delta will move back to A1-A13 and AA will take over A2-A12. American already has the gates repainted on the ramp even with Delta still using them. Furthermore the rumor is that when Phase II of A is finished that Delta will take all the new gates which we have heard will be 12-16. Leaves open room for speculation.

Notes:
A5 has been torn down. In front of A5 inside the terminal is a construction project that looks a lot like they are putting a SkyClub in.
After AA gets A2-A12 they are going to start moving narrow bodies off of D and only use D for international/widebody ops.

The New Runway

The new runway will be 12,000 feet long and word on the ramp is the airport/city of Charlotte have verbal confirmation that once opened (a) OW carrier(s) will use it for TPAC flights. To put bluntly it's specifically being built for 777's to take off at MTOW. The one thats been repeated many times at the airport is JAL to Tokyo. Supposedly AA/OW is trying to use CLT for intl connections the same way Delta/Sky Team use ATL.

Notes:
After the runway is done they will supposedly begin working on a 5th parallel runway between Billy Graham Pkwy and what is now 18L/36R.

Concourse D/Concourse E/Future MidField Terminal

My last little bit of insight is in regards to the airports masterplan which is buried online (I can post it later when I find it/if somebody else doesn't first) and what it looks like they are going to do with Concourse E.

According to the masterplan, and if the aircraft sizes are to scale, Concourse E will eventually be demolished. There will be a few more wide body gates added to the "armpit" of where D connects to E. The proposed new midfield terminal will be RJ gates. The renderings remind me of DTW and how they have their RJ gates. The rest of the space at current E will be used for hardstand parking of mainline/widebody aircraft.

Again, speculate away. Cheers.
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:58 pm

I forgot to mention that Via Air uses A2.
 
Clipper2Heavy
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:15 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:

The new runway will be 12,000 feet long and word on the ramp is the airport/city of Charlotte have verbal confirmation that once opened (a) OW carrier(s) will use it for TPAC flights. To put bluntly it's specifically being built for 777's to take off at MTOW. The one thats been repeated many times at the airport is JAL to Tokyo. Supposedly AA/OW is trying to use CLT for intl connections the same way Delta/Sky Team use ATL.



Again, speculate away. Cheers.


Welcome! Now to speculations...I just don't see AA with OW and JL doing anything much TPAC from the east coast. For the foreseeable future anyway. Even if they did....the 777 would be too much plane. Not saying you don't put that in the design for the newest Runway...but don't see it being used to that degree. IF for some reason they do TPAC from the east...I would have to put PHL and MIA ahead of CLT. Just my two cents and conjecture :)
 
GSP psgr
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:39 pm

CIDFlyer wrote:
GSP psgr wrote:
CIDFlyer wrote:

CLT-COU (Columbia MO) and CLT-ICT are two that I could see eventually happening. CLT-CMI was always one I thought should be added and its finally starting this December. Maybe also CLT-SPI and CLT-FSD?


South Texas: Delta doesn't do ATL-HRL/BRO/MFE. I wonder if AA might bite from CLT
SNA: I've often wondered how a daily 319/320 would do.
ELP: Leveraging AA's Texas strengths. Maybe a daily CR9?
HOU: As a supplement to CLT-IAH.
CSG/ACT: AA does a lot of military markets, and CSG is home to Fort Benning; ACT to Fort Hood.
SCE: Pennsylvania's ex-USAir country, maybe a daily CR2?


All good candidates as well. I’d also throw CRP in there as well. DL tried a lot of these but backed out mainly due to the weakness in coverage in Texas but AA would have a good shot since it’s a major player there and would give some more options in a different direction. I think AA used to do CSG from
DFW but perhaps it would be better served by CLT. I’ve always been a little surprised SCE didn’t have a CLT flight definitely think that is do able.


CLT-CSG is about a third the stage length of DFW-CSG, so that could be a winner. Probably too thin, but I wonder if CLT-BQK might work on some summer seasonal basis, as far as Georgia markets go.

As far as Texas, AA doesn't have to set up all new stations to do any of these; so it has much smaller marginal costs than Delta. Makes a once daily CR7/CR9 to CLT much more appealing from some of these markets.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:27 pm

CLTRampRat, very informative, and clear distinctions between fact and speculation.
Destination CLT ramification: AA's growth at CLT will negatively impact DL at ATL. Tit for tat. DL's growth at AUS will negatively impact AA at DFW.

http://www.cltairport.com/News/Pages/De ... jects.aspx

Given the history, parked beside Sully's A320, I suggest a B744 at the museum with the Queen's visage on the tail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte ... g-Strelitz
Last edited by WPvsMW on Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
jplatts
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:32 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
Hello,
This is my first proper post and as my username implies I can't think of a better thread to start with. I'd like to touch on some points I've seen here in no particular order.

The New Concourse A

Gate Usage
Southwest: A26, A24.

Notes:
Southwest usually RONs 3 aircraft with one on a hardstand until the first departure.

Again, speculate away. Cheers.


There was an article in the Wall Street Journal earlier this year that said that WN was planning on expanding at CLT once Concourse A is expanded at CLT. WN could add at least CLT-STL and CLT-DEN nonstop service. WN also has opportunities to possibly add CLT-ATL, CLT-LAX, CLT-OAK, CLT-MCO, CLT-PHX, and CLT-TPA nonstop service.
 
ahj2000
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:21 pm

jplatts wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
Hello,
This is my first proper post and as my username implies I can't think of a better thread to start with. I'd like to touch on some points I've seen here in no particular order.

The New Concourse A

Gate Usage
Southwest: A26, A24.

Notes:
Southwest usually RONs 3 aircraft with one on a hardstand until the first departure.

Again, speculate away. Cheers.


There was an article in the Wall Street Journal earlier this year that said that WN was planning on expanding at CLT once Concourse A is expanded at CLT. WN could add at least CLT-STL and CLT-DEN nonstop service. WN also has opportunities to possibly add CLT-ATL, CLT-LAX, CLT-OAK, CLT-MCO, CLT-PHX, and CLT-TPA nonstop service.

I don't think we are a the point of transcons yet, but I could definitely see service to STL, MCO, and FLL/TPA. I'm thinking DEN might have a bit too much competition at the moment.
-Andrés Juánez
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:37 pm

I don’t see anything in this link about the midfield concourse and demolition of concourse E. In fact they are expanding concourse E, have they scraped plans for this or is that just too far into the future (10-15 years). At the earliest the expansion of the B concourse to look like a hockey stick to match C won’t be done until 2026

http://www.cltairport.com/News/Pages/De ... jects.aspx
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:07 pm

Image

This rendering near enough matches what is in the Airport Ops office. The midfield terminal, if built, will probably be among the last things to be completed.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:48 pm

CLT-HNL failed, although I'm not sure if it failed because the route performed poorly from a yield perspective (IIRC loads were fine) or because the issue with the 762 (a diversion occurred several times weekly on the route) simply make the flight not feasible. I would interested to see if it would work again with a different equipment type. Although I am not sure it would make sense to launch the route from an East coast hub as it would overfly DFW/LAX/ORD. AA does have the least amounts of Hawaiian gateways when compared to all the other US carriers offering Hawaiian service, however. I would say that PHL-HNL may be a better option that CLT-HNL as PHL offers more local feed, as well as more feed from the Northeast where I would imagine there is more traffic to/from the Islands versus the Southeast.

One thing that always fascinated me was how weak US and now AA is in some Southern markets from CLT, especially to Georgia. US formerly flew CLT-AHN on B1900s but discontinued the service when Air Midwest folded back in 2008. That said, I wonder if a case could be made for CLT-ABY/CSG/VLD/MCN/BQK. BQK/ABY/CSG being the most likely. However, I do think that the weakness of US/AA in these markets isn't necessarily due to US/AA, but rather due to the strength of DL in these markets. Similarly, AA serves markets in both the Carolinas and Virginia that DL does not, such as CLT-FLO/HHH/LYH/PGV.

I think a case could be made for CLT-HOU/SNA/ICT/ISP/COS along with a couple of other markets but those stick out the most. US formerlly served CLT-EGE and I find it puzzling that Montrose was started over EGE. US never did CLT-JAC (as someone stated) but I could see it being possible as well.

WN isn't adding CLT-OAK/LAX/MCO/ATL/TPA. However I can see them adding STL or MCI, along with maybe MSY and one of their Mountain-West bases of DEN/LAS/PHX, but not all of them. I doubt it would be PHX, personally, as AA has essentially got the route on lock with a near shuttle-service of A321s throughout the day. DEN would probably be the most likely.

CLTRampRat wrote:
jNotes:
A5 has been torn down. In front of A5 inside the terminal is a construction project that looks a lot like they are putting a SkyClub in.
The New Runway

The new runway will be 12,000 feet long and word on the ramp is the airport/city of Charlotte have verbal confirmation that once opened (a) OW carrier(s) will use it for TPAC flights. To put bluntly it's specifically being built for 777's to take off at MTOW. The one thats been repeated many times at the airport is JAL to Tokyo. Supposedly AA/OW is trying to use CLT for intl connections the same way Delta/Sky Team use ATL.


Welcome to A.net!

A Skyclub in that area is unlikely, seeing as DL will be vacating that concourse in the coming years once Phase II of the A-North project opens. I wouldn't be surprised if DL eventually brings a Skyclub to CLT, however I am willing to bet that they will wait until they move to A-North. CLT isn't a "premium market" where it warrants the expense of building a temporary Skyclub in the meantime.

Verbal confirmations are great and all, but if/when CLT does get TPAC service, it will likely be on 787s or A350s, both of which I believe could operate CLT-Asia now at MTOW, the 787 especially. When CVG expanded their runways and opened a new one in the mid-2000s, they did it on "promises" from DL that they were going to launch CVG-Asia service, which we all know never occurred. A 787-8 could easily operate CLT-NRT tomorrow. The 787-8 has a MTOW of 502,500lbs (less than an A333 which frequents CLT) with a take-off distance of 8,500. Even on a hot day, the 787-8 could easily fly the route given CLT-NRT is significantly less than the published range of the aircraft, and CLT isn't high in altitude or anything.

I do think that having the runway built for 777 operations at MTOW (775,000lbs) is a good metric to aim for.
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soflaflyer
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:03 am

CLTRampRat wrote:

According to the masterplan, and if the aircraft sizes are to scale, Concourse E will eventually be demolished. There will be a few more wide body gates added to the "armpit" of where D connects to E. The proposed new midfield terminal will be RJ gates. The renderings remind me of DTW and how they have their RJ gates. The rest of the space at current E will be used for hardstand parking of mainline/widebody aircraft.

Again, speculate away. Cheers.


Wonder why hardstand parking vs more widebody gates? Any ideas? I would think there would be sufficient space at the hanger for parking aircraft if needed.
 
soflaflyer
Posts: 173
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:09 am

GSP psgr wrote:

CLT-CSG is about a third the stage length of DFW-CSG, so that could be a winner. Probably too thin, but I wonder if CLT-BQK might work on some summer seasonal basis, as far as Georgia markets go.


LUS served CSG, AHN, MCN and BKW from CLT back in the 90's. I could see at least CSG and MCN working. MCN would probably not work if they tried to charge crazy prices given its proximity to ATL, too easy to drive for lower fares.
ABY won't happen in my opinion, the city is shrinking, lost a significant % of the industry it previously had.
VLD could possibly work 1-2x day.
Last edited by soflaflyer on Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
jplatts
Posts: 4294
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:26 am

USAirALB wrote:
However I can see them adding STL or MCI, along with maybe MSY and one of their Mountain-West bases of DEN/LAS/PHX, but not all of them. I doubt it would be PHX, personally, as AA has essentially got the route on lock with a near shuttle-service of A321s throughout the day. DEN would probably be the most likely.


WN might possibly be willing to go head-to-head with AA on CLT-PHX since WN already serves BWI, MDW, and DAL (all of which are near AA hub airports) nonstop from CLT. WN actually has nonstop service out of PHX to destinations that AA doesn't currently serve nonstop from PHX, including BUF, MDW, CLE, DAL, FLL, HOU, SDF, BNA, MSY, RDU, TUL, and ICT. There are some travelers in Greater Phoenix who prefer to fly on WN over AA due to WN having nonstop service out of PHX to destinations that AA doesn't serve nonstop from PHX. In addition, WN would be able to more easily connect passengers to California and Vegas from CLT if it added CLT-PHX nonstop service.

WN can make CLT-PHX nonstop service work if there is enough demand in Greater Phoenix, Greater Sacramento, and Greater San Diego for WN nonstop service to CLT out of PHX. If WN adds CLT-PHX nonstop service, there would certainly be some passengers connecting to CLT from California through PHX on WN.

I agree that WN is more likely to add CLT-DEN nonstop service than CLT-PHX nonstop service, and I think that WN would likely add CLT-DEN nonstop service before adding CLT-PHX nonstop service.
 
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CLTRampRat
Posts: 153
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:44 pm

Looks like AA is dropping Charlotte-Havana.
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.charlott ... 02525.html
 
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CLTRampRat
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:42 am

Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:46 pm

soflaflyer wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:

According to the masterplan, and if the aircraft sizes are to scale, Concourse E will eventually be demolished. There will be a few more wide body gates added to the "armpit" of where D connects to E. The proposed new midfield terminal will be RJ gates. The renderings remind me of DTW and how they have their RJ gates. The rest of the space at current E will be used for hardstand parking of mainline/widebody aircraft.

Again, speculate away. Cheers.


Wonder why hardstand parking vs more widebody gates? Any ideas? I would think there would be sufficient space at the hanger for parking aircraft if needed.


No idea honestly. If it were up to me I would build an extension of D down where E would have been (in the future) and add another few gates. Who knows. Perhaps they will.
 
cheapgreek
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:57 pm

Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:29 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
soflaflyer wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:

According to the masterplan, and if the aircraft sizes are to scale, Concourse E will eventually be demolished. There will be a few more wide body gates added to the "armpit" of where D connects to E. The proposed new midfield terminal will be RJ gates. The renderings remind me of DTW and how they have their RJ gates. The rest of the space at current E will be used for hardstand parking of mainline/widebody aircraft.

Again, speculate away. Cheers.


Wonder why hardstand parking vs more widebody gates? Any ideas? I would think there would be sufficient space at the hanger for parking aircraft if needed.


No idea honestly. If it were up to me I would build an extension of D down where E would have been (in the future) and add another few gates. Who knows. Perhaps they will.


I have not seen the plans as of yet but I hope Eagle gates will not have the long waits after landing as exists now at E.
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:24 pm

Lufthansa starting A350 Service on March 31st. Bookable on their website.
 
ahj2000
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Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:01 am

CLTRampRat wrote:
Lufthansa starting A350 Service on March 31st. Bookable on their website.

Been waiting for A350 for a good long while. Weren't they planning on A350 to Charlotte much earlier?
-Andrés Juánez
 
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CLTRampRat
Posts: 153
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:53 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
Lufthansa starting A350 Service on March 31st. Bookable on their website.

Been waiting for A350 for a good long while. Weren't they planning on A350 to Charlotte much earlier?


I dunno what their original plans were, I just know that MUC is getting 1 for 1 A350 for A330 replacements so it was inevitable. It’ll be a welcome change. We are all tired of those A330s.

There’s a running joke out here that says LH should build a gate on the south cargo ramp because that’s where their dead A330s are always parked.
 
soflaflyer
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:54 am

CLTRampRat wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
Lufthansa starting A350 Service on March 31st. Bookable on their website.

Been waiting for A350 for a good long while. Weren't they planning on A350 to Charlotte much earlier?


I dunno what their original plans were, I just know that MUC is getting 1 for 1 A350 for A330 replacements so it was inevitable. It’ll be a welcome change. We are all tired of those A330s.

There’s a running joke out here that says LH should build a gate on the south cargo ramp because that’s where their dead A330s are always parked.


LH had a 380 parked on the Cargo ramp in MIA when I flew in today. MTC issue by chance? Is this a LH pattern like the 330s mentioned above?
 
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Moose135
Posts: 3230
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:54 am

soflaflyer wrote:
LH had a 380 parked on the Cargo ramp in MIA when I flew in today. MTC issue by chance? Is this a LH pattern like the 330s mentioned above?

They had an engine problem on Tuesday, it was parked awaiting repairs. Looks like it departed just after Midnight Thursday morning.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
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CLTRampRat
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:26 pm

Contour Airlines starting Beckely, WV-CLT starting December 1st. Currently only Via Air flies this route a few times a week (daily?) on an E120.

Contour will of course use the ERJ. I wonder if more routes will be added to CLT or if this is a one off.

As the kids say: “Weird Flex but Ok.”

https://www.facebook.com/15306576806022 ... 857155992/
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1287
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:00 am

CLTRampRat wrote:
Contour Airlines starting Beckely, WV-CLT starting December 1st. Currently only Via Air flies this route a few times a week (daily?) on an E120.

Contour will of course use the ERJ. I wonder if more routes will be added to CLT or if this is a one off.

As the kids say: “Weird Flex but Ok.”

https://www.facebook.com/15306576806022 ... 857155992/

Its the replacement for Via, who leaves the day before.
-Andrés Juánez
 
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CLTRampRat
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:42 am

Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:12 am

ahj2000 wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
Contour Airlines starting Beckely, WV-CLT starting December 1st. Currently only Via Air flies this route a few times a week (daily?) on an E120.

Contour will of course use the ERJ. I wonder if more routes will be added to CLT or if this is a one off.

As the kids say: “Weird Flex but Ok.”

https://www.facebook.com/15306576806022 ... 857155992/

Its the replacement for Via, who leaves the day before.



Is Via pulling out completely or just on this route? What about Parkersburg, St.Augustine, and Sanford?
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1287
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:03 pm

CLTRampRat wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
Contour Airlines starting Beckely, WV-CLT starting December 1st. Currently only Via Air flies this route a few times a week (daily?) on an E120.

Contour will of course use the ERJ. I wonder if more routes will be added to CLT or if this is a one off.

As the kids say: “Weird Flex but Ok.”

https://www.facebook.com/15306576806022 ... 857155992/

Its the replacement for Via, who leaves the day before.



Is Via pulling out completely or just on this route? What about Parkersburg, St.Augustine, and Sanford?

Parkersburg is too. Contour's got that. The FL ones are still going to be flown.
-Andrés Juánez
 
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CLTRampRat
Posts: 153
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Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:22 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
CLTRampRat wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
Its the replacement for Via, who leaves the day before.



Is Via pulling out completely or just on this route? What about Parkersburg, St.Augustine, and Sanford?

Parkersburg is too. Contour's got that. The FL ones are still going to be flown.



Just got word that Contour is adding TPA-CLT to connect with that BKW flight. I’ll post a link when I can.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3632
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Charlotte Discussion Thread - 2018

Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:02 am

JetBlueCLT wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
JetBlueCLT wrote:
https://www.landrum-brown.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/S-APS-Charlotte-Douglas-International-Airport.jpg

Hopefully the link above works. The ultimate goal from this long term master plan is demolishing E con and creating an express midfield terminal. 5/23 would be demolished, as its currently not in use anyways. That alone will create a better flow for flights coming in and out. As mentioned above, B/C would be extended to give AA more gates. You will see A north will have 3 “legs” once it’s all said and done. Most importantly, with the demolishment of the E concourse, it will allow CLT to expand the councourse D to the north to allow actual wide body gates. Which is something CLT is really lacking. Gates D11 and D12 are technically the only wide body gates. Every other A330 that parks takes up 2 gates. Imo that’s one of the most important things to add. Given AA has given indication of expanding CLT international network more.

I worked D-Con for years you can park a widebody on 1,2,3,4 with no issues


Sorry, let me clarify here, I meant that D11/D12 are the only gates that don’t take up 2 spaces when an A330 docks up.

I’d love to see them park a 330 on D1 and push a A319 out of C2. Pretty tight space.


When the first phase of concourse D was built around 1990 (not counting the original D which was a single level linear pier for commuter flights and briefly a People Express 727 with hardstand parking), there were four gates, D1, D2, D3, D4 (which was renumbered D5 when D was expanded to what it is today in 2002) and they were designed to handle four 747s simultaneously. US used C2, C4, and C6 for 767s regularly back then too, but the larger US Club had not been built yet.

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