Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 4282
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:15 am

kimimm19 wrote:
Nothing BA could do anymore can surprise. They are simply a glorified low cost carrier.


BA is a joke. Nothing more than Vueling/Level with loads of Heathrow slots.
First to fly the 787-9
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:16 am

Absolutely outrageously shameful way to treat any employees, let alone long term ones like those in the HKG crew base. I hope some tabloid journo pics up on this and bites BA's ass quite painfully.
 
User avatar
neomax
Posts: 945
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:26 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:20 am

Horrid company with disgraceful behavior even by American standards.
 
RandWkop
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 10:56 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:43 am

hz747300 wrote:
RandWkop wrote:
Looks like the ex employees will be entitled to either long service pay or redundancy of 2/3 of a months pay by number of years served. There are caps on the amount which can be paid. https://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/faq/cap57l_whole.htm


Yes, and no. I was made redundant a few years ago. There is a legal standard, which is usually 22.5k x number of years. Your employer is free to go above that, and my did. Usually they add an additional month x number of years served if they go above the minimum.

In an industry as cost sensitive as airlines, They probably received the minimum payout.

It does seem the employer has the option to pay you out their portion of contributed funds of your MPF. That's just wrong.

So they can raid employees mandatory pension to pay redundancy?
 
User avatar
XAM2175
Posts: 1156
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:51 am

NinjaT wrote:
I'm not sure where people are seeing the message...


Welcome to A.net, where reading the thread before posting is something only losers do.
 
User avatar
teme82
Posts: 1342
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:38 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:02 am

XAM2175 wrote:
NinjaT wrote:
I'm not sure where people are seeing the message...


Welcome to A.net, where reading the thread before posting is something only losers do.

I just did that. Thanks!

Now to the point. There might be a lot of issues that BA is not telling us why they terminated the base at HKG. But I think they have valid reasons for that but are not telling to the larger audience what they are. I would imagine that Hong Kong has clear labor laws and BA is following them to the letter. Yeah it's a shame that they had to close the base down but we can't do nothing about it. I would see the people finding new jobs rather easily there is a demand for FA's in the ME3 carriers and perhaps in local ones too. I would count AY out since they use 3rd party to supply them the crew for HKG flights. I've heard complaints from the people flying HKG-HEL on AY that the service is not the same than on the other AY flights. I think it's a cultural thing. Since no Finnish FA's on board.
Flying high and low
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8349
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:06 am

RandWkop wrote:
hz747300 wrote:
RandWkop wrote:
Looks like the ex employees will be entitled to either long service pay or redundancy of 2/3 of a months pay by number of years served. There are caps on the amount which can be paid. https://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/faq/cap57l_whole.htm


Yes, and no. I was made redundant a few years ago. There is a legal standard, which is usually 22.5k x number of years. Your employer is free to go above that, and my did. Usually they add an additional month x number of years served if they go above the minimum.

In an industry as cost sensitive as airlines, They probably received the minimum payout.

It does seem the employer has the option to pay you out their portion of contributed funds of your MPF. That's just wrong.

So they can raid employees mandatory pension to pay redundancy?


HK law states that severance pay is to be paid from the pension fund. Crazy, but true.

Employment law in HK simply doesn’t exist. No unemployment benefits, no state pension. But only an maximum of 10 - 15% tax!

When you hear the conservatives saying that post Brexit the uk will be like Singapore, this is what they mean. A capitalist haven!
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
ManchesterMAN
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 10:57 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:38 am

While it is sad that BA are closing the HKG base (and it can be argued this would be to the detriment of passengers), we don't know how the crew will be compensated, so all the outrage regarding BA's commercial decision and treatment of the employees should be toned down a little.

On one hand it sucks not getting any notice, but on the other it could suit the crew not having to work a notice period in what would clearly be a difficult situation all around. Hopefully they get jobs with other carriers or in other industries.

There is no evidence they won't get fair compensation so BA might not be being as savage as many here suggest (notwithstanding they have just sacked a bunch of good employees)!
Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 23905
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:56 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Bull. "Can" has never meant "should."

.....and "should" has never meant squat; to a publicly-held corporation or the regulators who police it.

They both deal with "can," as in what does the law permit.

About the only time you're going to see an exception to that, is if the corp can find a way to calculate any form of goodwill derived from "should," into a tangible accumulation of current or future revenue.

Employers should treat redundant employees with respect with regard to notice and severance payments, and employees should treat employers with respect and not steal things or commit vandalism, but both sides don't always do what they should, so we have laws.

oldannyboy wrote:
Shame on you BA!!!!!
Typical behavior of a company that is run by greedy bean-counters.
Horrible, shameful employment practices. The world's favourite airline my ass!
I find the technical, dry lingo of the letter very frustrating. I feel for the poor employees. I am really hoping this will bite BA management back in the ass with a vengeance...hoping this turns into a PR disaster for them.
And whilst at it, just look at how greatly the new 'cheap labour' crews are doing, and you immediately realise that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys...

Hopefully people keep this in mind when they book travel, but the company is betting all people look at is price and so far their bet is paying off.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
anstar
Posts: 3261
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:07 pm

Reminds me of when VS got rid of their HKG supervisors and senior crew and paid them out redundancy - but out of their own pension pots! So in effect crew got no payout as it was taken from their pensions.
 
oldannyboy
Posts: 2562
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:28 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:53 pm

Revelation wrote:
[.[/b]


oldannyboy wrote:
Shame on you BA!!!!!
Typical behavior of a company that is run by greedy bean-counters.
Horrible, shameful employment practices. The world's favourite airline my ass!
I find the technical, dry lingo of the letter very frustrating. I feel for the poor employees. I am really hoping this will bite BA management back in the ass with a vengeance...hoping this turns into a PR disaster for them.
And whilst at it, just look at how greatly the new 'cheap labour' crews are doing, and you immediately realise that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys...

Hopefully people keep this in mind when they book travel, but the company is betting all people look at is price and so far their bet is paying off.



Well actually, if people are choosing BA on price only it will surely bite them back because most of the times BA is not the cheaper option! CX is cheaper. And FAR better.

The irony to me is that BA pompous management are actually betting on the fact that people are going to choose them solely on service preference....you know, they actually keep believing (wanting to believe?) that they are still this prestigious [world's favourite anyone?] airline rather than a glorified LCC whose only merit is having its big fat ass deeply rooted in Heathrow....
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5675
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:48 pm

BestWestern wrote:
HK law states that severance pay is to be paid from the pension fund. Crazy, but true.

Employment law in HK simply doesn’t exist. No unemployment benefits, no state pension. But only an maximum of 10 - 15% tax!

When you hear the conservatives saying that post Brexit the uk will be like Singapore, this is what they mean. A capitalist haven!


No unemployment benefits of any kind? That is crazy. Not to mention HKG has by far the most unaffordable housing in the world.

I hated Hong Kong with passion the only time I was there (I basically felt it was a mix of the worst of London and the worst of China put together) but that is worse than I have ever expected.

More than capitalist haven, it looks like hell.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4648
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:15 pm

millionsofmiles wrote:
AA has foreign national bases in EZE, LIM, BOG and SCL. The flying that these bases take away from AA's MIA-based flight attendants has been a bone of contention since the acquisition of the routes from Eastern in 1990. Most AA MIA flight attendants...and certainly all those US-based flight attendants furloughed during the early 2000's while the foreign nationals continued to work...would gladly see these bases shuttered and the flying given to US-based flight attendants.

I imagine that at least some BA WW fleet (or Mixed Fleet, if HKG becomes an MF route) crew are happy to see the jobs reassigned to them.

While most flight attendants would naturally feel personal sympathy for the termination of outsourced crews, at the end of the day, they are taking jobs from system crews.


There is a difference between the way AA uses its foreign nationals bases and the way BA does. The latter only places 1 or 2 of the foreign FAs on the flights, to act as language-qualified staff. So they were never intended as a more cost-effective staff, but to fulfill a need that the London base could not provide at the time. So both WW or MF fleets will hardly feel the difference, they will just have to cover 1 or 2 more positions on two daily flights. Big whoop.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3488
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:18 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
BestWestern wrote:
HK law states that severance pay is to be paid from the pension fund. Crazy, but true.

Employment law in HK simply doesn’t exist. No unemployment benefits, no state pension. But only an maximum of 10 - 15% tax!

When you hear the conservatives saying that post Brexit the uk will be like Singapore, this is what they mean. A capitalist haven!


No unemployment benefits of any kind? That is crazy. Not to mention HKG has by far the most unaffordable housing in the world.

I hated Hong Kong with passion the only time I was there (I basically felt it was a mix of the worst of London and the worst of China put together) but that is worse than I have ever expected.

More than capitalist haven, it looks like hell.


You mean the same city where people are docked pay just b/c they can't get to work on-time after the Typhoon (due to blocked road/a mess of a transport)? The same city that can never get anything close to "Standard Working Hour" law passed (Have been talk about for what? 10 years now?)? The same city that overtime are expected and no OT pay law? Oh, and the median salary for your average worker is a joke.

And what housing problem? You mean just some ridiculous house prices that are artificial? (i.e. if the developer can't sell those microflats, they just take it off the market and create a "shortage"), the same "rich" city where you still have people living in cage houses? Oh, and the same gov't officials that tell people to live up in mainland "Greater Bay Area" while they get to enjoy their giant mansion up in Victoria Peak (All without realizing that, well, housing in Shenzhen are not necessarily cheap nowaday). Oh, and good luck wanting to take back those leased land of a giant country club, b/c those rich people have to have somewhere to golf IN Hong Kong (Hack, for all their talk of "Greater Bay Area", you know, Shenzhen has some nice golf course also).

But hey, idiot HKers keep voting those useless a**-kissing Pan-China legistlators in just b/c they get some "goodies" from them. You're correct that it has the worst of London (i.e. all the out-of-touch people working in finance industry) and worst of China (i.e. Cronyism, "stability" aka an excuse to oppress anyone that say "no", semi-bribe like "pay for votes")

P.S. HK is not the worst place to visit for tourism, but living there and work there? No thanks (and I'm born there...)
 
RobertPhoenix
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:00 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:48 pm

BestWestern wrote:
RandWkop wrote:

Employment law in HK simply doesn’t exist. No unemployment benefits, no state pension. But only an maximum of 10 - 15% tax!

When you hear the conservatives saying that post Brexit the uk will be like Singapore, this is what they mean. A capitalist haven!


Emotionally I am totally on the side of the employees in this matter. The problem I have is that Hong Kong is a poster child for believers in limited government and lower taxes. When India became independent, Hong Kong had a lower average income than India. When Hong Kong returned to China their average income was out of sight compared to India, and even greater than in UK !

When almost all of us have a strong belief in the benefits or democracy, a colony with no democracy did infinitely better, economically, than a real democracy. And all this with an almost infinite source of the cheapest labor for most all of that time, absorbing millions of people coming from neighboring China.

Could they have done this with better employment laws ? I really don't know, and I suspect no one will ever know.

Apologies if this takes the discussion off topic, but I do think the treatment of the employees should be taken in context. And yes, I do feel BA's treatment of their employees is inhumane in this instance.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 23905
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:57 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Well actually, if people are choosing BA on price only it will surely bite them back because most of the times BA is not the cheaper option! CX is cheaper. And FAR better.

The irony to me is that BA pompous management are actually betting on the fact that people are going to choose them solely on service preference....you know, they actually keep believing (wanting to believe?) that they are still this prestigious [world's favourite anyone?] airline rather than a glorified LCC whose only merit is having its big fat ass deeply rooted in Heathrow....

Yes, like it or not, many big companies understand customer loyalty, habit, and preference and use it to extract bigger profits from them.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 23905
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:14 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Well actually, if people are choosing BA on price only it will surely bite them back because most of the times BA is not the cheaper option! CX is cheaper. And FAR better.

The irony to me is that BA pompous management are actually betting on the fact that people are going to choose them solely on service preference....you know, they actually keep believing (wanting to believe?) that they are still this prestigious [world's favourite anyone?] airline rather than a glorified LCC whose only merit is having its big fat ass deeply rooted in Heathrow....

Yes, like it or not, many big companies understand customer habit, loyalty and preference and use it to extract bigger profits from them, but in the end that just means they are easier for competitors to undermine once word gets out that others offer a better value proposition.

I think it'd be easy to fix the slot problem at LHR and other big airports. The airport authorities should buy back the slots at fair market rates then auction them all off on two year leases. They'd probably make back the payment in the first few years and the rest would be pure profit that can be used to improve the airspace management. If the market bids up the favored slots too much then other airports nearby can undermine them and force a correction during the next lease period. If new entrants value the slots more than incumbents then they can buy their way into the market, and if they overpay they will fail and the market will correct. The result would be actual capitalism rather than the crony capitalism we now have.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 4844
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:22 pm

RandWkop wrote:
Looks like the ex employees will be entitled to either long service pay or redundancy of 2/3 of a months pay by number of years served. There are caps on the amount which can be paid. https://www.labour.gov.hk/eng/faq/cap57l_whole.htm


That's very good to hear - thanks for the research!

Clearly the 7 days appears to be some garbled information or just a plain old misunderstanding or a fake news outlet going for clicks by "making a mistake" when the reality was the people are being paid within 7 days.

The Internet is great, but also it's can be a real pain when it comes to information dissemination.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
TR
Posts: 982
Joined: Thu May 03, 2001 1:28 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:57 pm

Working in executive management myself there are a few things to consider here before slamming the BA/IAG management team. The management is appointed by the board and the board is appointed by the shareholders. So in the end a company’s behaviour is a reflection of the agenda of the shareholders. If you don’t deliver to the shareholders you are not reappointed to the board/appointed as management. Simple as that.

That said, it is fair to discuss the values of a company. What do ‘we’ believe in, how do ‘we’ want to act as a company. To me this is where BA/IAG has moved in a direction that is very different from what it used to be. At least from the outside. I do not know in detail what the shareholders dictate to board/management but surely, I my view, board/management have agreed to a corporate culture that I myself would not be able to be part of. No company is better than the way it treat its employees and going down the road IAG seems to be, will only lead to dissatisfaction, low morale and too high turnover of staff with years and years of valuable experience and dedication walking out the door. The ironi is that at some point the music stops so to say and then you have to start investing in your people again.... because the same shareholders asks you to do so. I believe - ironically - that it is Richard Branson who has said something along the lines of ‘if you take good care of your employees they will take good care of your customers’ (read ensure a viable business)
 
hz747300
Posts: 2412
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:11 am

BestWestern wrote:
RandWkop wrote:
hz747300 wrote:

Yes, and no. I was made redundant a few years ago. There is a legal standard, which is usually 22.5k x number of years. Your employer is free to go above that, and my did. Usually they add an additional month x number of years served if they go above the minimum.

In an industry as cost sensitive as airlines, They probably received the minimum payout.

It does seem the employer has the option to pay you out their portion of contributed funds of your MPF. That's just wrong.

So they can raid employees mandatory pension to pay redundancy?


HK law states that severance pay is to be paid from the pension fund. Crazy, but true.

Employment law in HK simply doesn’t exist. No unemployment benefits, no state pension. But only an maximum of 10 - 15% tax!

When you hear the conservatives saying that post Brexit the uk will be like Singapore, this is what they mean. A capitalist haven!


The law states that it can be paid from your MPF, your employer does not have to do this, it is optional. Many smaller firms do this, but larger, especially non-HK/China ones don't. It is interesting, foreign firms generally don't follow these laws because they don't want the bad publicity. One thing about HK, is it is easy to go to The Standard, SCMP, or if you really want to be heard, The Apple Daily, and state what asses your company is being and they'll generally settle while making you sign an agreement that you'll not go public or will refrain from any further public comment. One of my colleagues sued our former employer in labor court, when they wanted to pay his 25 year payout of out of his UK-based international pension. The judge, a Brit, stated that the funds are not domiciled in the HK and they couldn't do this and told them to go outside and settle. She kept trying to short change him, and eventually, he said, I'm going to go back in there and tell them everything you said just now. She begged him not too and agreed then to pay everything including his travel to court to and from Bangkok where he had semi-retired. But I guess in HK fashion, the HR rep was terminated within a month.

In 12 years in HK, I've seen it slowly change in favor of the employee. By that change though, I mean slowly catching up to the lowest standard of the Western countries. But if you work for a Foreign Bank, or any Foreign Firm really, they'll pretty accommodating if you push back a little and threaten bad publicity.
Keep on truckin'...
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8349
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:15 am

I’ve lived for 5years in HK and 5 in China. In HK you see 80year olds working because they have no choice.

There really is two societies - the mega rich and the rest - €45k annual rent for a 80sqm apartment nowhere near the city centre (airport area) more than absorbs the low tax part of your salary.

I love HK, but, like Singapore, it shouldn’t be seen as the fantastic answer it really isn’t. City states are not replicable into nations.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Posts: 1974
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:40 am

OA412 wrote:
adamblang wrote:
Flaps wrote:

I would assume that it is all in compliance with relevant Hong Kong law? If so don't blame the airline if local employment law allows it.

No, it's fair to expect an employer to be decent to their people, even if the law doesn't require it. "This is the minimum" doesn't mean "do this."

That's exactly it. It absolutely is BA's fault. Just because the law allows you to be a jerk, doesn't mean you should be. Assuming this complies with relevant HK law, BA could have, and should have, gone above and beyond 7 days.

Did you even read the letter that someone posted? BA will pay all monies due to individuals within seven days, not give them just seven days pay.

That being said the way this has been handled is nothing but cold and uncaring. I'm not excusing BA for this but I wonder if there has been a bad experience when they announced the closure of one of the other bases (SIN, GRU, GIG) over the last twelve months that has made them act this way? It must have been some awkward flights out of LHR with the dead-heading crews going from thinking they were working that flight to sitting in the seats. I can't imagine it will have gone down well with any other BA crew, whether Worldwide Fleet or Mixed Fleet.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:36 am

lightsaber wrote:
DGVT wrote:
While I agree that this was rather harshly executed, sometimes it may be better to do these kind of things rather swiftly. Imagine all the ongoing (union) talk, negative press and bad morale if BA had announced this a few months beforehand.

I agree with swift. I disagree with 7 days severance, in particular for crew in London. How many will show up to their flight and learn then? How many will be flying back in uniform as that is the clothes they packed?

This could have been done better. This will have morale implications for a decade.

Lightsaber


Every BA employee sees this and is supposed to think... what exactly? Is this an employer you would go out of your way for?

Severance and respect is not only about the employees affected, it is about all the other employees who are watching the scenario.

Maybe we aren't getting the full story.[photoid][/photoid]
Last edited by Flighty on Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
anstar
Posts: 3261
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:01 pm

Galwayman wrote:
twicearound wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
I’m surprised BA doesn’t open lots of crew bases in the USA , would probably save them a fortune to hire US based labour


Why would hiring in a country that has some of the highest paid flight attendants in the world be cost effective?


low minimum wage, no employment rights , no maternity pay , easy to fire ....etc


Problem is Mixed Fleet is already pretty similar and a much lower overall package.
 
Galwayman
Posts: 891
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:10 pm

anstar wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
twicearound wrote:

Why would hiring in a country that has some of the highest paid flight attendants in the world be cost effective?


low minimum wage, no employment rights , no maternity pay , easy to fire ....etc


Problem is Mixed Fleet is already pretty similar and a much lower overall package.


Yes true ... the speed with which they’ve sunk to minimum wage levels is breathtaking ... and you can tell too
 
WorldFlier
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:37 pm

tonystan wrote:
Flaps wrote:
tonystan wrote:
I am absolutely devastated by this news. Such a wonderful team dedicated to the company and to be so callously thrown aside overnight. Literally crew in the air as the announcement made unaware it was their last day in a job with families and mortgages to support!

And no they were not “low paid Asian workforce” staff as one ignorant poster posted!

A truly sad day and shameful of a once great company. All so they can cheapen the cost base to their own greed.


I would assume that it is all in compliance with relevant Hong Kong law? If so don't blame the airline if local employment law allows it.



Oh well that makes it all ok then. London made a morally reprehensible decision based on the law of another land! Grand so!

What an attitude to have!


If only Hong Kong had British Workplace Laws....I wonder why they don't...
 
AirbusA322
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:38 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:22 pm

Disgraceful Behaviour. I’ll be voting with my wallet.

This sort of rubbish changes mindsets as it has just done with mine. Could have been handled better, not just turfing them out like a piece of rubbish.
 
findingnema
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 1:14 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:28 pm

Just as an FYI for those who are interested, there is a GoFundMe page which has been set up by the two cabin crew unions at Heathrow (BASSA for Worldwide and Eurofleet and MFU for Mixed Fleet) to raise money to send to the Hong Kong base;

https://www.gofundme.com/help-support-o ... a-hkg-crew
My postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent my employer’s positions, strategies or opinions
 
klm617
Posts: 4866
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:44 am

Why would they not be offered transfers to another BA station ?
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
klm617
Posts: 4866
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:45 am

AirbusA322 wrote:
Disgraceful Behaviour. I’ll be voting with my wallet.

This sort of rubbish changes mindsets as it has just done with mine. Could have been handled better, not just turfing them out like a piece of rubbish.



Me too no way BA.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
NWADTWE16
Posts: 708
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:12 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:16 am

BA will never get a penny from me. This carrier is as callous and cheap as it comes. Shame on you BA, you carried the Royal Crown on your planes for decades, and to become this empty shell, pathetic
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
User avatar
DL757NYC
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:07 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:29 am

mfe777 wrote:
7 days severance.... wow. That's bad even by most US corporate job standards.




Do you know how Cathay gets rid of older flight attendants? After somewhere around 10 years of service they stop giving you money to help pay the high cost of rent in Hong Kong. These women (mostly) are then forced to quit.
 
User avatar
DL757NYC
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:07 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month

Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:40 am

ClassicLover wrote:
scotron11 wrote:
In a leaked memo from BA’s Area Manager for its ‘Worldwide Fleet’, the airline confirms it is to close the Hong Kong base due to non-specified “commercial reasons” which made it “unviable for us to continue to operate the base”.

The airline said in the memo that the terminations would be made with immediate effect. It’s understood that Hong Kong-based cabin crew who were on rotation in London will deadhead back to Hong Kong.

“Please can you kindly return to British Airways immediately all items belonging to British Airways and your British Airways ID card” the memo bluntly continued. Those affected will receive just 7-days worth of pay in severance.


I'm pretty shocked they are only providing 7 days severance pay. That is pretty mean... in two of the three redundancies I've had in Ireland, I've received 8 weeks pay per year of service, and the other provided a month's pay tax free as my severance. 7 days is awful.

Also, they certainly did it "with immediate effect" considering some crew were in London and now will deadhead back. Wow.

I can see why it will save them money though - if they are Worldwide crew, they will be on contracts earning far more than the current average wage for cabin crew. Right business decision, but if the above is true, pretty poor implementation.


European and American Carriers treat their foreign station employees like animals. Half the time they will wear the uniform but work for a contractor. One day you go into work and find out you don’t have a job. Yet these companies want courteous,productive employees yet most times there is no commitment to these workers. I hope these workers are able find jobs at other airlines. Many times these layoffs are devastating. The jobs at the airport in many countries are coveted positions.
 
findingnema
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 1:14 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:37 am

DL757NYC wrote:
mfe777 wrote:
7 days severance.... wow. That's bad even by most US corporate job standards.




Do you know how Cathay gets rid of older flight attendants? After somewhere around 10 years of service they stop giving you money to help pay the high cost of rent in Hong Kong. These women (mostly) are then forced to quit.


Do you have any source for this? The most recent article that I can find says that CX backed down on this proposal.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.padd ... tions/amp/
My postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent my employer’s positions, strategies or opinions
 
User avatar
XAM2175
Posts: 1156
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:06 am

klm617 wrote:
Why would they not be offered transfers to another BA station ?


As mentioned by another poster earlier in the thread, the ex-HK staff would need to have, or be able to acquire, the legal right to work wherever that other station is. It would be a nice gesture, but ultimately impractical.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 23905
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:15 pm

NWADTWE16 wrote:
BA will never get a penny from me. This carrier is as callous and cheap as it comes. Shame on you BA, you carried the Royal Crown on your planes for decades, and to become this empty shell, pathetic

That same crown was on RN ships that protected slave ships ( ref: http://www.sceala.com/phpBB2/irish-forums-25754.html et al ), so maybe back off on that a bit. The Crown doesn't have a lot of moral high ground to stand on when it comes to profit taking.

The real issue is the nostalgic image that the BA customer base still holds despite the evidence that BA is really just an expensive version of Ryanair. Bit by bit people are figuring it out, though.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
VRHNM
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:38 pm

According to the leader of the BA HKG Based FA Association, the management sent from the UK to handle the termination denied they were the BA management to a Hong Kong legislative council member, only to be exposed later on when the union (protesting at the departure zone at HKG) confronted him (or his team).
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4779
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:04 pm

So is LHR-HKG not the goldmine for BA it once was? It does seem to be struggling somewhat, even with a A380/B77W mix. Is Cathay’s five a day LHR and return to LGW just too much?
 
tonystan
Posts: 1702
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:39 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:15 pm

skipness1E wrote:
So is LHR-HKG not the goldmine for BA it once was? It does seem to be struggling somewhat, even with a A380/B77W mix. Is Cathay’s five a day LHR and return to LGW just too much?


Smoke screen, this route still performs very well for BA. They even told its employees this on recent courses displaying the top 5 performing routes of which HKG is one.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
GDB
Posts: 13661
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:26 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
Nothing BA could do anymore can surprise. They are simply a glorified low cost carrier.


I recently got a long service award at BA, been there all my adult life.
And...........you are right.
Only of course, LCC without the low fares.
Still, having a CEO who before we got lumbered with him, managed to run an actual LCC almost into the ground, we should not be surprised.
The C-Word strikes again, (Cruz that is, what word were you thinking?)

Though I am nothing to do with crew, or bases, I can say this went down badly, it just reflects poorly on the whole company.
Greed matched only by incompetence seems the takeaway from this.
 
a350lover
Posts: 863
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:05 pm

This is probably the worst version of Alex Cruz since he took the place he has in BA.

Considering English as one of the most polite languages in the planet, these lines written to these crews are probably among the rudest you could expect from any employer. We all would love to pay back BA the way they've done to the HK crews. Sad it's hard to do so in this globalized world.

Just to take some emotions off the topic, which bases overseas will BA have after this?
 
GDB
Posts: 13661
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:43 pm

Revelation posted;
That same crown was on RN ships that protected slave ships ( ref: http://www.sceala.com/phpBB2/irish-forums-25754.html et al ), so maybe back off on that a bit. The Crown doesn't have a lot of moral high ground to stand on when it comes to profit taking.

True, however then they went on to interdict slave ships - mainly to the US - when the practice was outlawed.
But it's a fair point when concerning reputation.
Something BA management seem to have a gaping blind spot about.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of HK law, or the narrow economic case (which many suspect is only looked at in the short term), these are the customer facing, front line staff.
Who will have had drilled into them from the first day of training the need to be not only competent but a good ambassador for the compnay, something the board don't seem to think applies to them as well.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 23905
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:39 pm

GDB wrote:
Revelation posted;
That same crown was on RN ships that protected slave ships ( ref: http://www.sceala.com/phpBB2/irish-forums-25754.html et al ), so maybe back off on that a bit. The Crown doesn't have a lot of moral high ground to stand on when it comes to profit taking.

True, however then they went on to interdict slave ships - mainly to the US - when the practice was outlawed.
But it's a fair point when concerning reputation.
Something BA management seem to have a gaping blind spot about.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of HK law, or the narrow economic case (which many suspect is only looked at in the short term), these are the customer facing, front line staff.
Who will have had drilled into them from the first day of training the need to be not only competent but a good ambassador for the compnay, something the board don't seem to think applies to them as well.

Agree to all of the above. UK law with regard to slavery changed much earlier than US law and didn't take a massive blood letting like the US Civil War to accomplish it. BA is damaging its reputation by their actions with regard to the HK base. The average person probably won't notice but as you say the remaining employees are.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1428
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:41 pm

Like others, I agree that the 7 days severance was an insult. And an injustice. BA management must be totally disconnected from the front line employees.

I've been reading for months about difficulties at Cathay Pacific. The HKG airline market must be a bloodbath.
 
AAMDanny
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:29 pm

Reminds me of when VS gave a load of their HKG based crews their redundancy out of the employee's own personal pension funds. They couldn't get away with it in the UK but they think it's acceptable to do it oversees and hope nobody will notice.
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 23905
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:31 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Like others, I agree that the 7 days severance was an insult. And an injustice. BA management must be totally disconnected from the front line employees.

I've been reading for months about difficulties at Cathay Pacific. The HKG airline market must be a bloodbath.

As above, the amount of severance was not seven days, the severance was paid in seven days, but still the lack of notice was terrible.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
mattyfitzg
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:35 pm

a350lover wrote:
This is probably the worst version of Alex Cruz since he took the place he has in BA.

Considering English as one of the most polite languages in the planet, these lines written to these crews are probably among the rudest you could expect from any employer. We all would love to pay back BA the way they've done to the HK crews. Sad it's hard to do so in this globalized world.

Just to take some emotions off the topic, which bases overseas will BA have after this?



If i'm not mistaken, the remaining ICC bases are: Beijing, Shanghai, Cairo, Mumbai, Tokyo, Delhi, Chennai and Bangalore
 
a350lover
Posts: 863
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:38 pm

Cairo is a pretty interesting thing. Do they prefer to roster Cairo crews just for the Cairo-LHR instead of just layover there UK crews?
 
charliecossie
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 5:17 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:26 am

I worked for BA for 32 years. I was a Duty Engineer at Frankfurt (having previously worked at Gatwick) when I was made redundant at the end of 2016.
Throughout 2016, BA got rid of all it's engineers based in Europe (except those in MAD and BCN!). At some stations, staff were able to transfer to the new maintenance provider.
At FRA we were told to piss off and find a job elsewhere. Even though there jobs at LHR, we were told they were not available to us.
BA chose Air Berlin as it's new maintenance provider in FRA, mainly because Lufthansa were incredibly expensive and refused to handle the daily 767 service. Air Berlin were already overstaffed in FRA and took on none of the BA staff. I was 60 years old, top of pay scale and a supervisor. The only jobs available were at Condor as a "mechanic" and a 40% pay cut. I chose to move to Spain and retire early. My boss, who was 62, signed on for unemployment in Germany. In eighteen months he applied for about 6 jobs and was offered about zero interviews. He has now retired too.
Shortly after BA shut us down, Air Berlin closed down it's FRA maintenance. Hahahahaha!
Do you know how we found out that we were being closed down? Air Berlin staff told us that they were going to receive BA documentation and procedures training. Our management had told us nothing.
I now detest BA and tell everyone I know/meet in a pub/whatever to fly with any other airline.
DO NOT FLY BA. BA sux.
 
charliecossie
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 5:17 am

Re: British Airways axes entire Hong Kong crew ahead of closure of base in city next month in Oct

Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:28 am

PS Forgot to mention that after they'd finished sacking the engineers, they sacked the customer service staff as well.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos