nascar1
Topic Author
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:32 pm

Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:49 pm

According to several media in Spain, Norwegian supends during W18 season BCN-FLL 3x weekly and MAD-FLL which was scheduled to start next month (October 31) with also 3x weekly flights. The suspension of these flights is due to the Rolls Royce engine issues of the Norwegian 787 fleet.

Regards

source: http://www.europapress.es/turismo/transportes/aerolineas/noticia-norwegian-ofrecera-casi-13-millones-plazas-madrid-barcelona-invierno-20180926144131.html
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9582
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:57 pm

BCN losing all Norwegian U.S. flights was also in this thread which was locked even though BCN wasn't brought up in the thread that replaced it.

The long-haul base which currently operates flights to the US East Coast will shut down.

Flights to BCN and TFS are apparently ending too.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1404647
 
User001
Posts: 915
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:58 pm

That was EDI. It stated EDI loosing its Norwegian TATL as well as TFS/BCN.
 
pabloeing
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:20 pm

¿How many B787's have DY in storage?
 
behramjee
Posts: 4949
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:23 pm

so is Norwegian finally coming to terms that their multiple EU hub bases for long haul bases is not a commercially viable proposition?
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1239
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:35 pm

behramjee wrote:
so is Norwegian finally coming to terms that their multiple EU hub bases for long haul bases is not a commercially viable proposition?


I think they are tired of paying for (and dealing with the complaints of passengers that thought they were getting a newer planes) leased out jets to cover what they thought was going to be their own metal. The complaints about those leased planes are numerous.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3889
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:39 pm

enilria wrote:
BCN losing all Norwegian U.S. flights was also in this thread which was locked even though BCN wasn't brought up in the thread that replaced it.


That's not Barcelona, it's Edinburgh and Belfast.

Barcelona - Los Angeles is bookable up to september 2019, so that route certainly doesn't get cut. It's just Fort Lauderdale that gets cut, nothing else.

behramjee wrote:
so is Norwegian finally coming to terms that their multiple EU hub bases for long haul bases is not a commercially viable proposition?


It works as long as they're selective in their choice of long haul hubs. So far they weren't, they flew everywhere they could. This means they were mostly competing against themselves. For example Norwegian is flying Amsterdam - New York JFK. I can see this route getting cut, it doesn't add anything. Norwegian has very few feeder flights out of Amsterdam and from most of them they also serve New York directly so there's no need to funnel their passengers through Amsterdam. On the other hand, passengers from Amsterdam can easily fly to one of the Scandinavian hubs and fly to New York from there.

Each route they add is eating into the demand for their other routes. Norwegian needs to take this into consideration.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3889
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:44 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
I think they are tired of paying for (and dealing with the complaints of passengers that thought they were getting a newer planes) leased out jets to cover what they thought was going to be their own metal. The complaints about those leased planes are numerous.


That's true. In a few weeks I'm flying Norwegian to Los Angeles and from what I understood this will be on one of their own 787s. At least, I hope so. The leased planes are mostly used to east coast destinations such as New York and Fort Lauderdale. Los Angeles is a west coast destination, so that's pretty safe.
 
ckuschel
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:47 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:01 pm

So when are these flights slated to return? I fly this route frequently and it’s always full. Yields might suck because the prices are always super cheap.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3889
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:06 pm

ckuschel wrote:
So when are these flights slated to return? I fly this route frequently and it’s always full. Yields might suck because the prices are always super cheap.


I think it's when they've solved the problem with the engines, but you never know. In te meanwhile you might have to transfer somewhere, that's not the end of the world.

PS I just noticed that Norwegian is cutting Madrid - Fort Lauderdale but more or less at the same time starting Rome - Fort Lauderdale.
 
User avatar
flybynight
Posts: 1486
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2003 1:58 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:09 pm

Isn't Norwegian considering expanding at SEA (if there is room at SEA before the new international terminal opens)?
Heia Norge!
 
nascar1
Topic Author
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:32 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:20 pm

ckuschel wrote:
So when are these flights slated to return? I fly this route frequently and it’s always full. Yields might suck because the prices are always super cheap.


BCN returns on S19, you can check at Norwegian website, 2x weekly same as S18 and S17.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1239
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:26 pm

They had cut DEN-CDG for winter but added it back for summer 2019 a couple of weeks back. Unless they can get quality replacement planes like the former Singapore 380 they need to stay away from using crap metal and just use their own even if it means slowing down on destination expansions. I'm sure they find lots of markets need to be seasonal but what to do with expensive planes when winter hits.

I still think there's smaller markets like STL, MCI and even MEM for 2x and 3x summer flying out there into Gatwick or some place that offers numerous self connecting opportunities like Dublin but for for only late spring to early fall flying. The Iceland carriers have shown that you can so that with some success not all will be, though. My Nephew and I have talked how we could hit up a Tottenham match or two if it was super easy and inexpensive to get there. Right now $1200 bucks r/t isn't that but 600 and we are there .
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3889
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:30 pm

flybynight wrote:
Isn't Norwegian considering expanding at SEA (if there is room at SEA before the new international terminal opens)?


That would be good. Right now they only serve Seattle from London Gatwick, but flights from Gatwick are never the cheapest due to the APD. It would be great if they'd start Copenhagen - Seattle for example. Of course this would eat into the demand for Gatwick - Seattle, but all together it might work out.
 
pabloeing
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:33 pm

BCN-FLL have load factors over 90%.......is a amazing route for DY from BCN
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1239
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:57 pm

The lesson here was the the Trents were the wrong engine choice.
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:26 pm

BCN may actually be one of the brighter spots in the DY transatlantic network. Simply put, there are all kinds of ways to get between places like Chicagoland/Greater Los Angeles/SF Bay Area/South Florida/the Tri-State Area and major European flag carrier hubs like Amsterdam, London, Madrid, Paris, etc. Norwegian is a pretty tough choice for a Chicagoan that is loyal to Star Alliance or a Spaniard that wants to travel with Oneworld, but in markets like LA and Barcelona FFer loyalty is much less of an issue.

BCN has typically required a connection through a less-than-savory hub like ATL, CDG, EWR, JFK, LHR, PHL, etc. People on both sides of the pond are just loving the advent of nonstop LAX-BCN flights, and I have to think the same goes for the new OAK/FLL-BCN services. Given the significant fare premium Norwegian was charging on the LAX-BCN route last month (compared to LAX-MAD, anyhow) I can only assume American and European travelers alike have started paying a bit more to support these now-established, yet highly desirable services.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3889
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:31 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
The lesson here was the the Trents were the wrong engine choice.


But they couldn't have known that before, it was just bad luck. Could have happened to any airline.
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9582
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:13 pm

enilria wrote:
The long-haul base which currently operates flights to the US East Coast will shut down.

Flights to BCN and TFS are apparently ending too.
PatrickZ80 wrote:
enilria wrote:
BCN losing all Norwegian U.S. flights was also in this thread which was locked even though BCN wasn't brought up in the thread that replaced it.


That's not Barcelona, it's Edinburgh and Belfast.

Barcelona - Los Angeles is bookable up to september 2019, so that route certainly doesn't get cut. It's just Fort Lauderdale that gets cut, nothing else.

behramjee wrote:
so is Norwegian finally coming to terms that their multiple EU hub bases for long haul bases is not a commercially viable proposition?


It works as long as they're selective in their choice of long haul hubs. So far they weren't, they flew everywhere they could. This means they were mostly competing against themselves. For example Norwegian is flying Amsterdam - New York JFK. I can see this route getting cut, it doesn't add anything. Norwegian has very few feeder flights out of Amsterdam and from most of them they also serve New York directly so there's no need to funnel their passengers through Amsterdam. On the other hand, passengers from Amsterdam can easily fly to one of the Scandinavian hubs and fly to New York from there.

Each route they add is eating into the demand for their other routes. Norwegian needs to take this into consideration.

That thread said that the crew base in EDI was supporting BCN. Is that info false?
 
a350lover
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:18 pm

BCN short haul crew often operated this flight, I am pretty sure...
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:11 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
ckuschel wrote:
So when are these flights slated to return? I fly this route frequently and it’s always full. Yields might suck because the prices are always super cheap.


I think it's when they've solved the problem with the engines, but you never know. In te meanwhile you might have to transfer somewhere, that's not the end of the world.

PS I just noticed that Norwegian is cutting Madrid - Fort Lauderdale but more or less at the same time starting Rome - Fort Lauderdale.


FLL-MAD is an odd route for DY considering the amount of capacity and competition on the MIA-MAD route. Always felt it would be a tough push, but DY has a greater name ID in Spain than in the rest of Southern Europe. In theory FLL-FCO should be fine, MIA-FCO if anything is under-served. But I am not sure DY is as known on the Italy end as in Spain.

I am surprised FLL-BCN is being suspended for winter. I had thought load factors were high, but DY 787's are having engine issues as has been noted and I do think the summer months are better for that route.
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2894
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:16 am

IMHO, people are looking at DY the wrong way, they are looking at the hubs being in BCN or LGW or CDG when they should be looking at it as FLL or LAX etc, multiple flights a day from a US city to multiple EU destinations, to me that means that DY is operating long haul hubs in US cities.
 
User avatar
spinkid
Posts: 1871
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2001 5:59 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:30 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
IMHO, people are looking at DY the wrong way, they are looking at the hubs being in BCN or LGW or CDG when they should be looking at it as FLL or LAX etc, multiple flights a day from a US city to multiple EU destinations, to me that means that DY is operating long haul hubs in US cities.


To have a hub in FLL, they would need feeder flights from a U.S. partner. They can't carry traffic in the U.S. I think Spirit would be a good match in FLL.

It would be very cool if they could make it a hub for the Caribbean and S. America, however international transfers in the U.S. are too difficult.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 5639
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:53 pm

ckuschel wrote:
So when are these flights slated to return? I fly this route frequently and it’s always full. Yields might suck because the prices are always super cheap.


If fares weren't low they'd have more empty seats. Either way it kills PRASM.
 
a350lover
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:04 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

FLL-MAD is an odd route for DY considering the amount of capacity and competition on the MIA-MAD route.


Could we name any DY route not affected by this "issue" of capacity & competition? ORD-LGW / JFK-LGW / JFK-CDG / EWR-BCN // JFK-AMS // JFK-MXP....

They seem to like this scenario indeed...
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3889
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:14 pm

a350lover wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

FLL-MAD is an odd route for DY considering the amount of capacity and competition on the MIA-MAD route.


Could we name any DY route not affected by this "issue" of capacity & competition? ORD-LGW / JFK-LGW / JFK-CDG / EWR-BCN // JFK-AMS // JFK-MXP....

They seem to like this scenario indeed...


Oslo - New York, Oslo - Orlando, Oslo - Oakland and Oslo - Los Angeles are only flown by Norwegian, no other airline flies these routes. Norwegian is also the only airline to fly Oslo - Fort Lauderdale, however SAS competes with this route on Oslo - Miami.

In the rest of Europe they face far more competition, specially at Gatwick where none of their routes is unique to them.
 
User avatar
adambrau
Posts: 260
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:44 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:45 am

I am loyal to Star Alliance but I am surprised how many friends are flying DY, some people who could afford business on a legacy carrier and other who wouldn't. There are so many people who just don't roped into the whole FF debacle, and just choose nonstops, inexpensive premium cabins or the lowest fare. I am curious what their real affect is on the legacies across the Atlantic?
Let's keep the skies friendly.
 
NWADTWE16
Posts: 661
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:12 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:59 am

To me, this engine issue is the bigger story. Its been going on for years now correct? How in the H*LL is this not resolved or a suitable remedy in place, when its the core of these airlines business that is being impacted. You can't lose any more important piece if you are an airline than you're ability to carry passengers.
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5342
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:12 am

SurfandSnow wrote:
Given the significant fare premium Norwegian was charging on the LAX-BCN route last month (compared to LAX-MAD, anyhow) I can only assume American and European travelers alike have started paying a bit more to support these now-established, yet highly desirable services.


ckuschel wrote:
So when are these flights slated to return? I fly this route frequently and it’s always full. Yields might suck because the prices are always super cheap.


So there are two very different views on BCN-FLL :).

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
FLL-MAD is an odd route for DY considering the amount of capacity and competition on the MIA-MAD route. Always felt it would be a tough push, but DY has a greater name ID in Spain than in the rest of Southern Europe. In theory FLL-FCO should be fine, MIA-FCO if anything is under-served. But I am not sure DY is as known on the Italy end as in Spain.


I agree, I was slightly skeptical with FLL. I guess this is the reason they launched LAX and JFK before FLL. Miami is an enormous market from Madrid but it is flown 4 daily (compared to 1 daily to BCN). And in low season you can always get cheap 1-stops from MAD or elsewhere in Spain (TAP for instance). Also nobody from the Spanish side will know what Fort Lauderdale is, and Spaniards are not "winter birds" going to Florida in winter.
 
BHXRunway15
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:17 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:28 am

pabloeing wrote:
¿How many B787's have DY in storage?


I can only quote BHX but on 20 September there four, yes four 789's on the ground at the same time.

G-CKNY appears to be a long term resident as it is engineless on the terminal remotes.

There are only two in the moment (one inside MAEL) but the 20th saw G-CKNY, NZ, LN-LNJ & LNN - I didn't see it myself but quite a site and a Virgin A332 thrown in for good measure - all MAEL business.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12422
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:41 am

NWADTWE16 wrote:
How in the H*LL is this not resolved or a suitable remedy in place

Because they essentially just now discovered (or more accurately: just now publicized their discovery of) one of the largest contributing causes, now they need to develop a fix, THEN they need to produce it in sufficient quantity to both replace extant engines and mount as new engines for upcoming.

That's going to take time. Lots of of it.

Thus far, the best they've been able to do is offer (some) customers a modified version that isn't (or is less) affected.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
a350lover
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:29 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:

Oslo - New York, Oslo - Orlando, Oslo - Oakland and Oslo - Los Angeles are only flown by Norwegian, no other airline flies these routes. Norwegian is also the only airline to fly Oslo - Fort Lauderdale, however SAS competes with this route on Oslo - Miami.

In the rest of Europe they face far more competition, specially at Gatwick where none of their routes is unique to them.


Indeed, Scandinavia represents to me DY's natural market where they could have its greatest potential. However, they seem to love competition, fare battles and flying everywhere. I have the feeling this winter is going to be tough (not just for DY, but for everyone), and likely DY&IAG's story hasn't finished yet.

I have been analyzing a bit some of the loads on the long-haul network (i.e AMS-JFK, LAX-MAD, ORD-JFK, etc.), and they seem notably good. Despite that, costs must be quite high with oil rising and all the lease needed in order to tackle RR engine issues. Good luck to them!
 
User avatar
bluefltspecial
Posts: 506
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:27 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:29 pm

I'll add in a little of what I know about Norwegian for Winter '18

Rather than continue to expand and operate with the help of charters to cover routes Norwegian has decided to "pull back" any expansion plans until all their aircraft engine issues had been resolved. They have been going back and forth with Boeing and Rolls Royce - it's from my understanding that Norwegian at one point even requested to stop receiving frames and asked just for the engines so they could get the frames they had back in service but an agreement couldn't be reached.

I know Norwegian had considered even operating a second long-haul type such as used 777s from EK or SQ, but I believe that the SQ frames may have already had parts and engines cannibalized, and I believe another carrier became interested in the EK frames. So now, they are left waiting now for the Rolls Royce partner to increase the production of fan blades. The current expectation (from what I know) is that most of the aircraft will be fixed and made airworthy again by spring and late summer. Using the winter '18 slow season to create "seasonal" routes and downtime to follow up with scheduled maintenance, While I cannot give you an accurate count of which aircraft are operating and which are awaiting engine/blade replacements, I know at one point there were at least 7 frames not operating.

The other issue that has really come into play has been NYC/JFK operations which has resulted in a serious issue of OTP. While there is an issue of slot constraints with JFK, the bigger issue has been Terminal 1, and it being over capacity. It seems that the T1 operations does not allow, or makes no interest, in swapping available gates, so a flight can arrive to the terminal, and if say, AF, SU, or another carrier is on the arriving flights gate, they will make the flight hold for said gate rather than swapping it to an open one. This has resulted in flights waiting for a gate for upwards of 2 hours (or more in multiple cases). Being that the normal turn time is about 2 hours for a 787 at Norwegian, and they do not plan much "slack" in their fleet in between flights, it becomes almost impossible to "catch up" the delay, and it rolls over to multiple flights.

Example

OSL-JFK arrives on time, however aircraft on their gate, that arrival is delayed two hours.
Aircraft is turning from OSL-JFK to JFK-CDG, then CDG-LAX, then LAX-FCO, then FCO-EWR, then EWR-BCN where it finally has a maintenance break and it can recover the delay.

Now, this is just my opinion, but I think Norwegian has focused on LGW with O&D and missed the opportunity to provide OSL or CPH as a true international connecting hub throughout Europe. From my understanding, the original issue was slot times in JFK which pushed them to focus on LGW. However, there are 10 or more other cities in the US now that they could offer an arrival bank into OSL in the early morning allowing a ton of connections throughout the morning and afternoon in OSL/CPH that they do not offer from LGW. Again, just my opinion...

Another interesting thing to note is that a number of the G- registered aircraft are now being re-registered back to LN-
Not sure the reason why if anyone knows. I was under the presumption that if an aircraft was not operating on a certificate (G- for NUK and LN- for NAS) for more than one year it had to be re-registered. Not sure what is taking place with that.

Onto others comments...

WaywardMemphian wrote:
behramjee wrote:
so is Norwegian finally coming to terms that their multiple EU hub bases for long-haul bases is not a commercially viable proposition?


I think they are tired of paying for (and dealing with the complaints of passengers that thought they were getting a newer planes) leased out jets to cover what they thought was going to be their own metal. The complaints about those leased planes are numerous.


This about sums it up. It was a long-term/interim solution, and now it would appear Norwegian has decided it's no longer worthwhile to try and hold market share with something (wetlease by charter, on older aircraft with no/limited IFE) that "devalues" their brand (I know, it's somewhat of an ironic comment, but truthful), and pushes people away from giving Norwegian a second chance, and actually flying Norwegian 787 metal.

flybynight wrote:
Isn't Norwegian considering expanding at SEA (if there is room at SEA before the new international terminal opens)?


Last flight to Seattle is currently listed as Oct 26th. Seattle, from my understanding, it did ok, but did not meet expectations due to limited connection options already available by other carriers. The route was made seasonal and should return in spring/summer '19 however, unlike some other routes, it has not been loaded into the system yet.

WaywardMemphian wrote:
They had cut DEN-CDG for winter but added it back for summer 2019 a couple of weeks back. Unless they can get quality replacement planes like the former Singapore 380 they need to stay away from using crap metal and just use their own even if it means slowing down on destination expansions. I'm sure they find lots of markets need to be seasonal but what to do with expensive planes when winter hits.


My understanding of this was that they had planned on cutting DEN-CDG and then thought against it, thinking of ski resort passengers. However, Norwegian has again gone against that and gone back to their standard of connecting winter cities with warm cities, which they do well with.

WaywardMemphian wrote:
The lesson here was the the Trents were the wrong engine choice.


Interesting, I'm by no means an aircraft engine aficionado, while I know the basics with most engines, problems and conditions, especially with the 787 and RR/Trent, I was under the understanding that the manufacturer for both GE and RR was the same company, No? It was explained to me that there were less GE engines and thus fewer cases of GE engines of fan blade fatigue? Thus, GE at some point would also have similar problems.

If someone could provide more information on the subject, I would be quite interested. One of the things I value most on this forum is the things I learn from others knowledgeable from direct hand knowledge of specific subjects.

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
FLL-MAD is an odd route for DY considering the amount of capacity and competition on the MIA-MAD route. Always felt it would be a tough push, but DY has a greater name ID in Spain than in the rest of Southern Europe. In theory FLL-FCO should be fine, MIA-FCO if anything is under-served. But I am not sure DY is as known on the Italy end as in Spain.

I am surprised FLL-BCN is being suspended for winter. I had thought load factors were high, but DY 787's are having engine issues as has been noted and I do think the summer months are better for that route.


I think this is a simple example of connecting a somewhat "sun city" to another "sun city" in winter, whereas they can connect another more predominately cold city to a warmer city and drive more traffic.

BCN-JFK/OAK/LAX remain bookable through winter, offering onward connections from BCN to the Canaries and Tel Aviv.
MAD-JFK/LAX remain bookable through winter, offering onward connections from MAD to the Canaries and Majorca.

Don't forget that Norwegian offers connections from BCN/MAD to all the LGW destinations.

LAX772LR wrote:
NWADTWE16 wrote:
How in the H*LL is this not resolved or a suitable remedy in place

Because they essentially just now discovered (or more accurately: just now publicized their discovery of) one of the largest contributing causes, now they need to develop a fix, THEN they need to produce it in sufficient quantity to both replace extant engines and mount as new engines for upcoming.

That's going to take time. Lots of of it.

Thus far, the best they've been able to do is offer (some) customers a modified version that isn't (or is less) affected.


I don't think anyone expected it to be this catastrophic, and thus, while there is probably some clause in the contracts with both Boeing and RR, I don't think they had anything in their contracts for this type of scale - in terms of interruption of being able to use their aircraft reliably.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

behramjee wrote:
so is Norwegian finally coming to terms that their multiple EU hub bases for long haul bases is not a commercially viable proposition?


It works as long as they're selective in their choice of long haul hubs. So far they weren't, they flew everywhere they could. This means they were mostly competing against themselves. For example Norwegian is flying Amsterdam - New York JFK. I can see this route getting cut, it doesn't add anything. Norwegian has very few feeder flights out of Amsterdam and from most of them they also serve New York directly so there's no need to funnel their passengers through Amsterdam. On the other hand, passengers from Amsterdam can easily fly to one of the Scandinavian hubs and fly to New York from there.

Each route they add is eating into the demand for their other routes. Norwegian needs to take this into consideration.


One thing I can pretty much promise you is that AMS-JFK will not being getting cut, at least not any time soon.

They petitioned EASA to get the route because KLM/AF/DL had a majority hold on slots in AMS and there was no ability for a new entrant. Under EU law any airline can petition EASA to enter the market where there is a monopoly, and thus, KLM/AF had to release one of their slots to Norwegian. The plan was for Norwegian to operate it a few days a week, however, the route did so well over summer the route was changed from 4 days a week, to daily starting end of October. I've been on the flight three times each way, once when it started and two recently. With exception of flying it within a week of the route starting, its been oversold all but one of the flights both ways, and the one time it wasn't oversold it only had a few seats open after boarding completed.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 3889
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:11 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
My understanding of this was that they had planned on cutting DEN-CDG and then thought against it, thinking of ski resort passengers. However, Norwegian has again gone against that and gone back to their standard of connecting winter cities with warm cities, which they do well with.


Surely the passengers on this flight don't go to Denver for the ski resorts since France has plenty of ski resorts itself. Not near Paris, but the French Alps are famous for skiing. Why travel all the way across the world when you got the same thing close to home?
 
a350lover
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:27 am

bluefltspecial wrote:

I think this is a simple example of connecting a somewhat "sun city" to another "sun city" in winter, whereas they can connect another more predominately cold city to a warmer city and drive more traffic.

BCN-JFK/OAK/LAX remain bookable through winter, offering onward connections from BCN to the Canaries and Tel Aviv.
MAD-JFK/LAX remain bookable through winter, offering onward connections from MAD to the Canaries and Majorca.

Don't forget that Norwegian offers connections from BCN/MAD to all the LGW destinations.



Your post contained very interesting observations and comments. Very good one indeed!

I had never seen Spanish hubs the way you presented. However, unless you were talking about pax making all that way and self-connecting, routes to the Canaries from USA are most of them presented through LGW, or with connecting times at MAD/BCN way too long, 7hours. Same with the flights to TLV. As much as I agree with the logical connection which could be BCN, the plane leaves BCN to TLV early in the morning (6.50am), thus, connections would require a night in Spain, and self-connecting.

"Sun city" to another "sun city" in winter, - that's a very good point, which I maybe missed lost in which to me appeared to be a rather disorganized network from DY. Despite that, they still have core markets which do not match that logic, rather business (JFK-AMS/JFK-LGW). Taking into account that the thread was about BCN mainly, would you consider the BCN long-haul base a "sun-base"? They recently made the move to enlarge the 787's Premium cabins, etc, which made me think they were after increasing yields and revenue. Yet a bit lost...

I also heard they considered options to accommodate a sub-fleet of say.... 777s for its long-haul plans. However, that would require also lots of efforts, money and time, which they might not have.

I 100% agree they missed the opportunity to become a truly competitor (moreover, at its home place!) using Scandinavia (OSL, ARN, CPH) to connect passengers both in short haul and long haul networks. They still do that, and those airports are focus cities for DY, and I say focus cities because they do not have any bases there, I believe surely trying to avoid the cost of labour there.

Only time will tell whether its strategy success or falls down. I love its product and I 100% trust it can be relevant and interesting for the market. OTP is now to me the point which should be addressed. Flying economy, DY long haul fares are among the cheapest ones often, so the product is more than great especially when you get to board the 787. Flying Premium, I'd say the typical business pax from any alliance could see the proposal something rather "too humble" (if that makes any sense?). Said that, DY did well by naming it Premium instead of Business, even though I'd say the product is actually closer to C. No big promise, which again can be fantastic for a different "business" profile.
 
LupineChemist
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:03 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:52 am

bluefltspecial wrote:

I think this is a simple example of connecting a somewhat "sun city" to another "sun city" in winter, whereas they can connect another more predominately cold city to a warmer city and drive more traffic.

BCN-JFK/OAK/LAX remain bookable through winter, offering onward connections from BCN to the Canaries and Tel Aviv.
MAD-JFK/LAX remain bookable through winter, offering onward connections from MAD to the Canaries and Majorca.



Madrid is cold in winter FYI. But people just to to Canaries for warm and beaches. And DY already does fly those routes, too.

MAD-JFK is baffling to me since fares there were already super low since there were already 4 airlines (combining AA/IB due to the JV) competing on the route before Norwegian is even involved.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5342
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:38 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
I think this is a simple example of connecting a somewhat "sun city" to another "sun city" in winter, whereas they can connect another more predominately cold city to a warmer city and drive more traffic..


London daily mean in January: 6.8 degrees celsius (44.2 F)
Madrid daily mean in January: 6.3 degrees celsius (43.3 F)

How is Madrid a "sun city"? Granted Madrid sees a lot of more of sunshine hours in winter than London, but it is not like you will be sunbathing at those temperatures.

In any case Madrid is the Latin American capital of Europe, and Miami is the Latin American capital of North America and this generates a lot of traffic, from business to VFR. For instance, which are the two cities outside LatAm which are receiving the most Venezuelan migrants?: Madrid and Miami.
 
a350lover
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Norwegian suspends FLL-BCN/MAD during W18

Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:46 pm

FLL did not even inaugurate, and the current couple of routes Norwegian flies long haul from MAD, (JFK and LAX) are not on sale any further mar19. Hope announcements soon.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos